[HN Gopher] Irish finance minister calls EUR14B tax windfall fro...
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Irish finance minister calls EUR14B tax windfall from Apple
'transformational'
Author : adrian_mrd
Score : 23 points
Date : 2024-10-01 19:52 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| chollida1 wrote:
| I wonder how long this tax revenue will last, I realize this is a
| one time lump sum, now that the tax advantage for "locating" in
| Ireland no longer exists.
|
| > The windfall is being banked in two tranches - EUR8bn this year
| and the remaining EUR6.1bn next year - giving the country's
| finance department a projected EUR105bn in tax revenue for 2024.
|
| So this is about 7.6% of their tax revenue for this year and 5.8%
| of their revenue next year. If AAPL does leave that's a massive
| loss for the country.
|
| > Combined with the one-off revenue from Apple, the expected
| corporate tax intake for Ireland is EUR38bn, half of which comes
| from the top 10 companies, including the tech companies Microsoft
| and Intel, and pharma multinationals, such as Pfizer.
|
| Ireland could be facing a massive corporate tax loss if these
| companies just all up and go to a new European country.
|
| Possible destinations are Luxembourg(Amazon, Fiat Chrylser) and
| the Netherlands (starbucks)
| ManuelKiessling wrote:
| > If AAPL does leave that's a massive loss for the country.
|
| Is it, though? AAPL didn't pay those taxes before, that's
| exactly the underlying problem, no?
|
| Ireland would lose _something_ for sure, as the operations of
| AAPL certainly created some kind of money for the country --
| but not taxes.
| dotps1 wrote:
| Before the ruling Apple was paying about 8B in taxes per year
| to Ireland.
|
| If multinational corporations are no longer able to do a
| Double-Irish Dutch Sandwich anymore, it doesn't make sense to
| stay there.
|
| Which means the future losses in a single year from several
| large multinational corporations leaving will be larger than
| this one payment.
| SllX wrote:
| Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich has been dead and
| replaced several times over for years.
| quitit wrote:
| >Before the ruling Apple was paying about 8B in taxes per
| year to Ireland.
|
| > If multinational corporations are no longer able to do a
| Double-Irish Dutch Sandwich anymore, it doesn't make sense
| to stay there.
|
| That figure isn't going to change, nor are companies going
| to be running out of Ireland - the tax strategy has been
| shut down for more than a decade. Ireland has other
| features which make it attractive to US businesses,
| including strong historical ties and being the remaining
| English speaking member of the EU.
| vfclists wrote:
| Aren't Luxembourg and Netherlands also in the EU?
|
| Wouldn't the same rules apply?
| AnthonyMouse wrote:
| The issue is that the rule is highly subjective. So now there
| is a ruling for how not to structure your tax laws and
| they'll set out to achieve the same goal in a different way,
| i.e. they'll be more subtle about it in the future.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| It was win-win for Ireland. They got Apple investment and jobs
| for years, at the expense of other states, then "lose" a court
| case and get a tax windfall.
|
| Some companies might leave but they are not better off elsewhere
| in the EU so I think most will stay.
| ManuelKiessling wrote:
| Exactly what I thought -- would be crazy if this was some
| 5D-chess move from the government after all, but not completely
| unlikely...
| AnthonyMouse wrote:
| By this logic the other countries should do the same thing and
| offer them sweetheart deals in the hopes that the EU will
| cancel the deal ex post facto and give them the money anyway.
|
| Meanwhile the companies would then have the incentive to take
| countermeasures, e.g. make it so the EU entity has no assets
| and would then have no money to pay retroactive taxes and file
| for bankruptcy if they get rug pulled like this again, or just
| pull out of the EU and sell there through third party
| distributors that have razor thin local margins.
|
| Court decisions like this set up perverse incentives.
| almostarockstar wrote:
| It's a clear headed decision. Every euro of it needs to be spent
| on infrastructure. We can't fix the shit weather but we can try
| to bring the country up to modern standards.
|
| IMO, fears of companies leaving are unfounded. We're still the
| only native English speaking country in the EU and from a
| business sense, our culture most closely matches that of the US.
| The Irish government knows where the bread is buttered. There
| will always be attractive incentives for multinationals to be HQd
| here.
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