[HN Gopher] GnuCash 5.9 Released
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       GnuCash 5.9 Released
        
       Author : moasda
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2024-09-30 17:26 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gnucash.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gnucash.org)
        
       | bdjsiqoocwk wrote:
       | GnuCash is solid. One thing that I love: I have full control over
       | my data, and its stored as a simple xml (also supports SQLite,
       | but why use more complex when simpler works just as well?)
       | 
       | I have a few (comparatively minor) complaints about GnuCash, but
       | they're around UI. Things like: it would be nice to assign all
       | matching (eg Regen) transactions to a selected account, and stuff
       | like that.
       | 
       | But overall, having something that is A) simple and B) I control
       | fully, beats everything else.
       | 
       | The principles of free software show, I guess.
        
         | equivocates wrote:
         | I would argue xml is more complex, but to each his own. :)
        
         | trollied wrote:
         | XML is not simpler. You can just query a SQLite db with SQL.
         | 
         | What a weird take.
        
           | badsectoracula wrote:
           | It is not weird at all if you think of it from an
           | implementation perspective: it is _much_ easier and simpler
           | to write an XML parser than it is to write a loader for
           | SQLite databases, even if you do not write an SQL parser for
           | it.
           | 
           | After all there are way more independent XML parsers
           | implemented in a variety of programming languages than there
           | are SQLite implementations :-P.
        
           | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
           | How is SQLite DB simpler than a human readable markup
           | language?!
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | I agree with bdjsiqoocwk that XML is way simpler than SQLite.
           | In the case where I'm making changes by hand, it's _much_
           | easier to open an XML file in a text editor and edit it, than
           | it is to figure out an SQL query to do the same thing. In the
           | case where I 'm making changes programmatically, libraries
           | will handle the complexity of XML for me, but I will _still_
           | have to struggle through figuring out an SQL query if I 'm
           | trying to connect to SQLite.
           | 
           | SQLite is easier if you're comfortable with SQL to the extent
           | that it's little to no effort for you to write queries. But
           | most people aren't that comfortable, and XML offers them
           | significant advantages. I certainly prefer XML at any rate.
        
           | bdjsiqoocwk wrote:
           | Suppose you don't have SQLite, how do you open a SQLite
           | database? The only way is you have to re-implement SQLite
           | from scratch. Good luck with that.
           | 
           | Now imagine you don't have vim, how do you open an XML file?
           | You can use any of other thousands of text editors out there,
           | or any of tens of libs in tens of different languages.
           | 
           | I think your take that sqlite is simpler than a text file is
           | the weird one.
        
       | mszcz wrote:
       | I tried it years ago but finally settled on HLedger. Like
       | GnuCash, I own and control my data, but with HLedger I have an
       | ability to go in and correct or change something (and not in a
       | "accounting-appropriate" way) in bulk just by editing it in
       | Sublime Text. Then again, my use case is pretty basic and not
       | mission critical so YMMV.
        
         | gavinhoward wrote:
         | This is absolutely a valid reason to not use GnuCash.
         | 
         | As for myself, I agree that the XML format is not great, but I
         | use the SQLite format, which allows me to write scripts on it.
        
           | ranger_danger wrote:
           | You can write scripts to transform XML documents as well.
        
             | gavinhoward wrote:
             | True, but I don't want to. And that is the biggest barrier
             | of all.
        
         | jcarrano wrote:
         | I'm using GnuCash and not being able to easily do bulk changes
         | or easily script it is quite annoying, for example after a
         | slight mistake in a CSV import.
        
           | mszcz wrote:
           | Exactly. I can try out stupid stuff, but because it's all
           | text files and no magic, reverting back is as easy as it
           | gets.
        
           | bulletmarker wrote:
           | And since the CSV importer is terrible there are always a lot
           | of edits to do unfortunately.
        
           | samus wrote:
           | GnuCash has a scripting engine. If you have to do a specific
           | correction very often, it might be worth it to implement
           | something. If possible, the CSV should be preprocessed of
           | course.
           | 
           | If nothing else works, a Gnucash file is XML. A bit annoying
           | to work with, but quite possible.
        
             | jrootabega wrote:
             | Can you share a link to the docs for the scripting engine?
             | I've seen conflicting information over the years and I'm
             | not sure what the latest really is.
        
               | rad_gruchalski wrote:
               | Does this help? https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/s
               | table/bindings/pyth...
        
         | somat wrote:
         | It's xml right.
         | 
         | Whenever I have to edit an xml file I tend to just go ham with
         | python's xml library. the scripts are never pretty, mainly
         | because they are whatever addhoc editing I wanted in written
         | form. The hardest part is figuring out the xpath syntax.
         | 
         | A slight lie, I use lxml, mainly because it can select siblings
         | which the built in xml lib is unable to do. but I still use the
         | internal libs documentation, mainly because it is easier to
         | read.
        
           | mszcz wrote:
           | Yeah, I've never found XML to be easy to edit/bulk edit/edit
           | by hand. I suppose there are tools that would allow me to do
           | that but since I would use them sporadically, I'd need to re-
           | learn them every use. At the same ^D/^KD in Sublime works
           | just fine.
        
         | lhamil64 wrote:
         | I use Firefly III (https://firefly-iii.org). It's a self-hosted
         | web app which is nice for me because I tend to use it from my
         | phone most of the time. It does have a pretty extensive API,
         | perhaps not as easy to do bulk edits as a text file, but should
         | be fairly straightforward. It also has a rule system that could
         | be used to do bulk edits too.
        
       | Okx wrote:
       | GnuCash and KDE Money always seemed very similar to me. Why
       | should I use GnuCash over KDE money?
        
         | Andrex wrote:
         | First thing to come to mind is if Gnome's your DE and you
         | prefer more-native-feeling apps.
         | 
         | Vice-versa if you're using KDE instead.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | Getting OT here, but I've tended to prefer Gnome apps with a
           | KDE desktop. The latest UI pessimizations in Gnome may having
           | me switch completely away from Gnome, with the "You must
           | click on sub menus to open them" being the final straw.
        
       | GlibMonkeyDeath wrote:
       | I looked carefully at GnuCash before settling on Beancount (or
       | plain-text accounting in general) for personal finance software.
       | 
       | The deal breaker for me was the underlying XML or SQLite formats
       | of GnuCash. These are not terribly amenable to scripting, either
       | for ingesting raw data or reporting. Whereas this is basically
       | the point of plain-text tools like Beancount or HLedger. GnuCash
       | feels too much like a walled-garden compared to plain-text tools.
       | 
       | The plain-text format requires more work at first, but after you
       | get the hang of it (and provided you have some background in
       | scripting software) it is awesome.
        
         | massysett wrote:
         | To each their own I guess: my experience is the exact opposite.
         | Plain text looks simple to human eyes but parsing it in a
         | structured way is a nightmare and scripting edits to plain text
         | is a mess.
         | 
         | Databases on the other hand are built for this. After years of
         | dissatisfaction with plain text accounting and many hours spent
         | trying to improve it, I now use SQLite and it has been an
         | enormous improvement.
        
           | GlibMonkeyDeath wrote:
           | I agree with using the tool that works best for your purpose.
           | 
           | For me, I found that the SQLite models of GnuCash aren't
           | straightforward to query. That's why Beancount created its
           | own query language. Martin Blais has a good discussion of why
           | a traditional database doesn't quite fit for many accounting
           | purposes https://beancount.github.io/docs/beancount_query_lan
           | guage.ht...
        
       | garupoliq wrote:
       | I tried to get into it several times but eventually came to the
       | conclusion that it is, despite the unassuming name and the
       | advertisement as a tool for personal finances probably more
       | targeted at professional accountants or people who have some
       | training in accounting, rather than just being a tool for
       | tracking private finances in an intuitive way.
        
       | blacklion wrote:
       | I've tried many personal accounting software and all of them (but
       | old Pcoket Money for PalmOS!) are very unhelpful in filling in
       | expenses.
       | 
       | If you need to record whole shop visit as one transaction (like
       | "Food at Lidl") it is tolerable, but as soon as you want to enter
       | each line in your receipt as separate part of split transaction
       | (like, food:milk = 2 euro, food:bread = 1 euro, food:eggs = 3
       | euro, food:meat:pork = 8 euro, etc) you need to type everything
       | again and again without good suggestions, based on your previous
       | history. Such suggestions could be very sophisticated, taking
       | counterpart and other parameters and suggest "food:bread" and
       | price by letters "br" if counterpart is "Lidl" or "clothing:bra"
       | and other price if counterpart is "Victoria Secret", for example,
       | but, alas, nothing I've tried, support this.
       | 
       | Really, old (PalmOS 3.0!) Pocket Money was a breeze, and
       | everything else, Desktop or Mobile, is much, much worse in this
       | aspect.
       | 
       | Also, I think, that when you have all you transactions vrty
       | detailed, it is better to have nested "categories" and not nested
       | "accounts". It is almost cosmetic difference, but it is strange
       | for me to have "cache" and "food:meat:pork" as same type of
       | objects. I don't transfer money to "food:meat:pork", I spend
       | money for it. I transfer money to the shop, not to the product!
       | As far as I know, professional accounting systems doesn't have
       | account for each asset of the firm, like different accounts for
       | monitors, laptops, computers and (computer) mices.
       | 
       | Maybe, I don't find it yet? Any suggestions?
        
         | stouset wrote:
         | Is it actually all that useful to you to track each receipt
         | line-item? For a few specific types of purchases, maybe, but
         | I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you might be
         | taking on needless work that doesn't create value for you
         | anywhere near that level of effort.
        
           | cromka wrote:
           | I'm with you on that one. Been tracking my personal finances
           | since 2011 and I have yet found a need to go deeper with
           | analysis. Although I can imagine it could be interesting to
           | go extra deep, e.g. to observe changes in my nutritional
           | habits based on my grocery receipts juxtaposed with, say, my
           | bloodwork. But even then it'd be a gimmick as I could not
           | potentially rely on any correlation noticed. I'm sure someone
           | could come up with a better example.
           | 
           | In any case, unless tracking gets super easy, with digital
           | receipts saved directly onto our mobile devices and
           | standardized for processing, I just couldn't be bothered to
           | break down paper receipts.
           | 
           | That BTW makes me wonder why have we not seen e-receipts
           | standardized yet. We can pay wirelessly with devices, so why
           | not save some more meta data about the transaction, including
           | the receipt itself? Seems like a low hanging fruit, also
           | saving tons of paper.
        
           | RussianCow wrote:
           | I did this exercise for a little over a year to understand my
           | expenses in detail. Like the OP, I found it really
           | frustrating to do with any bookkeeping software I tried, to
           | the point where I eventually gave up as I didn't think it was
           | worth the effort. I started writing a web app to make this
           | easier but just didn't have the motivation to finish.
           | 
           | With that said, I learned quite a bit as a result of that
           | level of granularity. When all expenses at Amazon, Walmart,
           | etc go into the same bucket, it's really difficult to truly
           | understand what you're spending your money on and if you have
           | a problem you need to curb. Seeing "$X in spending at Amazon"
           | isn't really that useful without knowing how important or
           | frivolous any of those expenses were.
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | At the grocery store it would be extremely useful to
           | understand where money is going related to other food groups
           | (diary is 10% more). At the garage or clothing store not very
           | useful because the entire purchase is a good group but how
           | much you are paying for meat could help you decide to buy it
           | elsewhere but allow you to keep buying bread.
        
           | xupybd wrote:
           | Just tracking no but allocating yes.
           | 
           | If you plan ahead you know how much money you actually have
           | and can plan better.
           | 
           | I find I save way more with a proper budget in place.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | You're basically describing envelope budgeting, I think, where
         | the money is (like checking) or isn't (like credit cards)
         | doesn't matter. You have money inside of physical or virtual
         | "envelopes" that represent what money you really have available
         | for X or Y. It's kind of like an abstraction on top of all your
         | money sources.
        
           | dagurp wrote:
           | For this I recommend https://actualbudget.com/ . It is in
           | many ways like You Need A Budget but you can host it yourself
           | for free.
        
           | fullspectrumdev wrote:
           | Envelope budgeting works really well, tbh. Especially for
           | saving.
           | 
           | Due to a colossal screw up my bank had after I moved back to
           | my home country, it took me several months to get a new debit
           | card. So I got used to just taking out X cash per month, and
           | dividing it.
           | 
           | I've tried a few financial tracking things since getting back
           | on the card wagon, and found none of them actually have the
           | same result (spending less) as just dividing cash into
           | physical buckets.
        
         | berkut wrote:
         | I've tried a lot in the past as well, and after getting annoyed
         | with proprietary OS X software (iBank in particular) back in
         | 2009 or so, and not really liking GNUCash and KDEMoney (at
         | least back in 2009) ended up writing my own open source simple
         | app (native Cocoa, with a more recent Qt port for Linux) that
         | I've been using every since on a daily basis.
         | 
         | In terms of the detail, I used to do very detailed breakdowns
         | of categories, but now I don't really see the point: my app
         | supports 'split transactions' (one of the reasons I actually
         | made it, as existing solutions had poor support for them back
         | in 2009), and I generally just use things like 'Food',
         | 'Drinks', 'Essentials' as categories, as it never really made
         | sense (at least for me) to detail them with such accuracy.
         | 
         | But for things like 'coffee', I do 'Drinks:Coffee', so I can
         | see how much I am spending on fairly specific things, but I
         | guess it's a balance in terms of whether it's worth the effort
         | to record them so accurately compared to making use of the
         | details.
         | 
         | Similarly, things like 'Car:Fuel', 'Car:Service', etc...
        
           | tunesmith wrote:
           | At some point I really should do a first principles analysis
           | of why I track money... as far as I know, it mostly comes
           | down to: 1. is fraud happening? and 2. Am I saving enough for
           | retirement? Oh, and I guess 3. taxes
           | 
           | For fraud, I think it's basically a matter of whether we can
           | recognize each transaction. You don't actually need to
           | download transactions for that; you can just skim your
           | monthly statements.
           | 
           | For saving, that's tricky because there needs to be that
           | recognition of what categories are likely to increase during
           | retirement versus decrease. I gave that a single pass a while
           | back, and now I have a count each month of those expense
           | categories that will continue into retirement, along with a
           | 12-month average, so I can get a sense of what my portfolio
           | needs to be able to fund after I retire. For that, even
           | though I have Banktivity, I also have to use a spreadsheet.
           | 
           | For taxes, I don't know if anything really makes that easy.
           | It's hard to know what category breakdown you really need to
           | know whether you're capturing all your tax benefit, and my
           | financial software doesn't tell me "oh, by the way, you'll
           | want to split that transaction since some of it has a tax
           | benefit."
        
         | codedokode wrote:
         | It would be better if the software could just scan the receipt.
         | And if you live in the country with electronic receipts (like
         | Russia) then you can get them to your email in electronic form
         | or find online by identifiers on a paper receipt.
        
         | bdjsiqoocwk wrote:
         | May I ask why you want this? Does it have an actual purpose or
         | do you just enjoy processing data? If the purpose is "check
         | what % I'm spending in each category", you don't need account
         | software for this. You just need a table with 2 columns, price
         | and category and group by and sum. How you get that table has
         | nothing to do with accounting.
        
       | dmwilcox wrote:
       | Ran a business with it, payroll, administered the 401k accounts,
       | etc. Solid. Expense tracking good enough for a business with
       | limited expenses, or background as a bookkeeper (my teenage job).
       | But being able to generate balance sheet and profit&loss reports
       | for my accountant, golden.
        
       | _benj wrote:
       | I tried some time ago GnuCash after getting tired of plain text
       | accounting.
       | 
       | I'm not sure what it was but I couldn't get it working for me.
       | Tried HomeBank afterwards and was blown away by how accessible it
       | is in comparison.
       | 
       | I might give another try at GnuCash to track something like
       | business/project expenses but it was rather hard to use for my
       | personal finances.
        
       | misnome wrote:
       | I don't like the GNUcash model very much, it is a bit fiddly to
       | use, and is pretty hard to get the right stats I want out of it.
       | I've used and settled on several other packages in the past.
       | 
       | But GNUCash existed when I first got a job decades ago.
       | 
       | GNUCash exists today.
       | 
       | I don't think any other package really matches the endurance.
        
         | DaoVeles wrote:
         | It is charming in that it has that mid 90s utility design.
         | 
         | It is absolutely frustrating because it has that mid 90s
         | utility design.
         | 
         | I don't think I have seen any other utility hasnt really
         | progressed on interface design like GNUcash. Like they built a
         | prototype went "Nailed it!" And then moved onto back end stuff
         | while ignoring all input from users.
        
       | lloydatkinson wrote:
       | I've still yet to find anything that matched the usefulness and
       | straightforwardness of Microsoft Money.
        
         | DaoVeles wrote:
         | This is the only reason I have any experience with these apps.
         | When MS sunset Money and compatibility started to get wonky, my
         | in-laws were at a loss at what to do. We never did find an
         | alternative. They do however have a seperate Win 7 PC just for
         | Money, which at there age isnt a huge problem but for others
         | that is not viable long term.
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | Why not just setup a VM for Money specifically?
        
             | gavindean90 wrote:
             | Because they had a spare M.
        
       | rnadomvirlabe wrote:
       | I used GnuCash for a while, but I ended up spending too much time
       | making the online sync settings work. For accounts where I had to
       | manually download and import, I would end up putting off
       | importing them due to the friction. I now pay for Quicken Classic
       | and it's some of the best money I spend each year. The online
       | account connections consistently work as expected, and it gets
       | the job done for much less of a headache overall.
        
       | 9cb14c1ec0 wrote:
       | For personal accounting, MoneyManagerEx has a much simpler UI
       | than GnuCash.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-30 23:00 UTC)