[HN Gopher] Ceefax and the Birth of Interactive TV
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       Ceefax and the Birth of Interactive TV
        
       Author : speckx
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2024-09-27 17:28 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | weebull wrote:
       | What? No mention of Count Binface's policy to bring it back?
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | In some places it never went away :)
        
           | timthorn wrote:
           | And you can start your own service if so inclined:
           | https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/create-your-own-teletext-
           | se...
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | Or his 50th anniversary video
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/0YmSxTIvs_M?si=rJmzh_1XJ_UsaQTf
        
       | irdc wrote:
       | In some countries Teletext never went away. The Dutch system is
       | still up and running, and has a web front-end:
       | https://nos.nl/teletekst
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Have to deduct points for not using TeletextString in the
         | certificate.
        
       | gilmore606 wrote:
       | TIL where Ceephax Acid Crew got their name.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | I was very surprised Minitel only happened many years after it.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Minitel was considerably more sophisticated. For a start, it
         | was _two way_.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr54myyy671o.
       | 
       | Also related. Others?
       | 
       |  _Ceefax Simulator_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40095657 - April 2024 (102
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _BBC Archive 1983: Downloading Software via Radio and Ceefax_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38351869 - Nov 2023 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Ceefax from an old Raspberry Pi_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29047592 - Oct 2021 (26
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _We See Facts: The BBC's Ceefax Teletext Service_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18172532 - Oct 2018 (26
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _How Teletext and Ceefax are coming back from the dead_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12246592 - Aug 2016 (64
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Ceefax Final Broadcast: 'Goodbye, cruel world.'_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4690257 - Oct 2012 (36
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Ceefax: The early days_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4687417 - Oct 2012 (6
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Ceefax service to end after 38 years on BBC_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4687316 - Oct 2012 (14
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Ceefax - A love letter_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3856928 - April 2012 (37
       | comments)
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | _> and waited a few seconds for information to appear on the
       | screen_
       | 
       | Oh dear me. Later TVs had "fasttext" which cached the information
       | so they could go to a page instantly. Some pages were sent
       | repeatedly (like page 100, the index). But others you'd really
       | have to wait quite a time for while the transmitter cycled
       | through all the pages. I seem to remember Victor Lewis Smith did
       | a joke about this.
        
       | b800h wrote:
       | Watch teletext now online!
       | 
       | https://zxnet.co.uk/teletext/viewer/
       | 
       | Americans - turn on the telly, choose a channel (1 is a good
       | choice, althought 6 is worth a look...) and hit the text button
       | on the controller.
        
       | b800h wrote:
       | Honestly, it would still be popular today, even alongside the
       | internet, if it hadn't been replaced by the non-entity that was
       | "digital teletext".
        
         | sefrost wrote:
         | I remember being able to have the live football scores over the
         | top of any TV show. Most of the Ceefax/Teletext page would be
         | 'transparent' with only a small box on the bottom of the screen
         | showing the live updates.
         | 
         | Is it possible to do the same kind of thing with any smart TVs?
        
           | fidotron wrote:
           | Modern smart TVs could hypothetically overlay virtually
           | anything, however, you would not be able to overlay on to
           | another "app" or channel as it opens cans of worms. For
           | example, Roku had a lot of fraud from channels which showed
           | one thing to the viewer while downloading ads in the
           | background to persuade the backend the ads had been seen.
           | 
           | Back in the digital satellite era there was a transition
           | where it was possible for the interactive content from one
           | channel to be overlaid on the video of another as long as
           | both were on the same satellite and underlying channel (a bit
           | like "frequency" but not always 1:1). This is because digital
           | TV multiplexes multiple videos for different user visible
           | channels into a single stream with their interactive gunk,
           | and the gunk can switch video streams. The fun part was this
           | bandwidth is auctioned, and because every shady gambling
           | company (half of cyprus it seems) wanted to be overlaid on
           | sports the most expensive bandwidth was any spare around the
           | sports channels. Not sure anyone ever made use of this in the
           | end though.
        
       | mpweiher wrote:
       | The Ceefax team worked next to us at BBC News Online. Great guys!
       | 
       | They did almost all their programming on the live system. When
       | they gave us simpletons from the web side of things a demo, the
       | comment was: "well, anybody checking the football scores in Wales
       | right now might be in for a bit of a surprise".
       | 
       | The software system they had to work with to program it all was
       | ... "special". In one of those misguided attempts to make a
       | scripting system "user friendly", the vendor had omitted any data
       | structures or abstraction facilities worth mentioning. So the
       | team built all the data structures out of Ceefax pages that were
       | not being shown.
       | 
       | <Shudder>
       | 
       | When it came time to connect my feeds processing system to
       | Ceefax, I created a little XML-based markup language I called CML
       | (Ceefax Markup Language) so that we could use WebObjects builder
       | and the general template mechanism to build Ceefax pages. IIRC we
       | also built a little converter of CML to HTML so we could preview
       | those pages easily
       | 
       | Fun times.
        
         | ProxCoques wrote:
         | When was this? I was up in TVC (and later in that newer
         | building up the road from it) in 1996 prototyping the BBC News
         | Online publishing system with Fujitsu ICL. Didn't meet anyone
         | from the Ceefax team though.
        
           | mpweiher wrote:
           | Cool. I was there starting 2003, in White City. With the
           | generally dysfunctional air conditioning. Not so cool :-(
           | 
           | Which motivated me to work outside on the benches of the
           | rather lovely walkway leading up to the building. Which in
           | turn motivated me to write a pretty self-contained system. No
           | Oracle databases for you! Was very beneficial for all :-)
           | 
           | The Ceefax team was in the next room, between us and the
           | White City Bar.
        
             | jameshart wrote:
             | Of course no Oracle databases. That would only have worked
             | for the ITV teletext service.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _I have 2000 old VHS tapes in my garage and don 't know what to
       | do with them_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41645044
        
       | cjbprime wrote:
       | > To access these pages, viewers typed the three-digit page
       | number required into their TV remote control and waited a few
       | seconds for information to appear on the screen.
       | 
       | You can tell from "a few seconds" that the author of this article
       | never actually used Ceefax.
        
         | flir wrote:
         | There must have been some TVs with a page cache? (Not that I
         | ever saw one, admittedly).
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
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