[HN Gopher] MTA Open Data Challenge
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       MTA Open Data Challenge
        
       Author : oftenwrong
       Score  : 171 points
       Date   : 2024-09-27 13:27 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (new.mta.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (new.mta.info)
        
       | asjfkdlf wrote:
       | The prize is very underwhelming. If they really want people to
       | spend effort on it, they need to make the prize worth it.
        
         | xtiansimon wrote:
         | > "The winner will receive a vintage New York City Transit item
         | from our memorabilia collection."
         | 
         | Depends what it is. Long as it's not something you could steal
         | yourself. Ha!
        
           | jesterman wrote:
           | One of the options is literally a trash can!
           | https://new.mta.info/document/85441
           | 
           | Or perhaps... a subway seat?
           | https://new.mta.info/document/85661
        
             | erikaww wrote:
             | I'd give multiple weeks of time for a city trash can lol
        
           | mannyv wrote:
           | Their collection of vintage gum scrapings perhaps?
        
         | noitpmeder wrote:
         | Seems perfect actually! Attracts people that are interested in
         | the subject matter, not just a proposed reward.
        
           | maxverse wrote:
           | "we're hiring people that really love programming and aren't
           | just in it for the money"
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | It will look great in your portfolio.
        
         | zeroxfe wrote:
         | If you're doing it for the prize, then you're not the targeted
         | audience :-)
        
         | nxobject wrote:
         | Never underestimate the value of surplus NYC subway memorabilia
         | to a transit enthusiast. Especially signage from retired
         | rolling stock.
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | IMO it deliberately establishes a tone. This challenge is for
         | rail fans, it's not a generalised "use our API" hackathon type
         | thing.
         | 
         | Plus the MTA has a huge budget crunch. I really don't think
         | they could justify spending money on something with such an
         | unclear outcome.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | The prize is being able to say you won the prize on your
         | resume. I assume a lot of college kids in data science are
         | going to be going at this.
        
         | corytheboyd wrote:
         | I think it actually sounds kinda cool, if it's something unique
         | that couldn't just be purchased!
        
       | mcfedr wrote:
       | Why would you region block a webpage like this
        
         | safeimp wrote:
         | Reading their terms, I'm guessing it's due to:
         | 
         | > 3. Eligibility: The Challenge is open to legal residents of
         | the United States. Entrants must be 18 years of age or older as
         | of their date of entry. The Challenge is subject to federal,
         | state, and local laws and regulations and is void where
         | prohibited by law. Employees and contractors of the MTA, its
         | subsidiaries, affiliates, and directors (collectively the
         | "Employees"), as well as members of an Employee's immediate
         | family and/or those living in the same household, are
         | ineligible to participate in the Challenge.
        
           | ratedgene wrote:
           | yeah but wouldn't you want to create enough buzz globally so
           | word of mouth can spread to more US entrants?
        
             | safeimp wrote:
             | I don't disagree with you at all, I'm just speculating over
             | why they'd block it.
        
           | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
           | You can be a resident of the US and be on vacation for a
           | couple weeks
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | Because the next thing you know the EU is suing you for
         | billions of Euros.
        
           | cddotdotslash wrote:
           | Expect to see more of this, especially when the audience is
           | local/US. IIRC, some newspapers are already doing region
           | blocks. Why should website owners targeting US visitors spend
           | _any_ amount of money making their content comply with
           | asinine regulations (like cookie banners)?
        
             | cinntaile wrote:
             | Cookie banners are not a regulation requirement.
             | 
             | Contrary to what you seem to believe...There were more
             | geoblocks when the EU law went into action a couple of
             | years ago. There are less now.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | EU cookie directive predates GDPR. Notices have long been
               | required by that regulation for use of non-essential
               | cookies.
        
           | deathanatos wrote:
           | "Doctor it hurts...", IANAL.
           | 
           | I mean ... as I understand the Europeans' law, only if you're
           | doing dumb things to begin with, like giving users' data away
           | to random 3rd parties hellbent on shoving "ads" down one's
           | throat. If you had just made this site a simple HTML page
           | that just had the information the MTA wanted to convey on it,
           | AIUI the EU doesn't have a problem.
           | 
           | Which ... the MTA does appear to be, sending requests to
           | Google, LinkedIn, and some other CDNs.
           | 
           | I also don't think the MTA has any EU presence, so what are
           | they going to do?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _as I understand the Europeans ' law, only if you're
             | doing dumb things to begin with, like giving users' data
             | away to random 3rd parties hellbent on shoving "ads" down
             | one's throat_
             | 
             | There is a massive difference between complying with the
             | law and proving you comply. (Think: IRS audit.)
             | 
             | > _don 't think the MTA has any EU presence, so what are
             | they going to do?_
             | 
             | Send letters. The MTA would be obligated to respond to
             | them, which means legal bills.
        
               | deathanatos wrote:
               | > _There is a massive difference between complying with
               | the law and proving you comply. (Think: IRS audit.)_
               | 
               | > _The MTA would be obligated to respond to them, which
               | means legal bills._
               | 
               | ...why would the MTA be obligated to respond to them?
               | They've no jurisdiction/sovereignty over an American
               | transit agency.
               | 
               | Why would they audit themselves against laws that don't
               | apply to them? (Again, jurisdiction?) I've never worked
               | for a company that audited itself against every law from
               | every nation on Earth; we complied with the laws where we
               | had a presence and did business.
        
             | returningfory2 wrote:
             | > ...AIUI the EU doesn't have a problem
             | 
             | We're talking about a US transit agency. Even thinking
             | about whether the EU has a problem with the agency's
             | website is sort of absurd to begin with.
        
               | warkdarrior wrote:
               | Did this US transit agency, MTA, obtain permission from
               | all EU citizens who traveled on the MTA to share their
               | data with the whole world?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Did this US transit agency, MTA, obtain permission
               | from all EU citizens who traveled on the MTA_
               | 
               | Not how jurisdiction works.
        
               | returningfory2 wrote:
               | Eh this conversation has nothing to do with people
               | traveling on MTA services. We're talking about people
               | accessing the MTA website. Two different things.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Why would you region block a webpage like this_
         | 
         | As a part-time New York City taxpayer, I'd rather we not be
         | paying EU lawyers to make sure the MTA's open data complies
         | with European law.
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | Good news, the EU doesn't have any jurisdiction in NYC (or
           | anywhere else outside of the EU) so they don't have the
           | ability to enforce anything outside of their borders, as much
           | as they would like you to believe otherwise.
           | 
           | You can enforce what people and companies do within your
           | borders. You cannot enforce what companies or people outside
           | of your borders do.
        
         | kassner wrote:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20240927144204/https://new.mta.i...
         | 
         | I can access it just fine from Sweden :shrug:
        
       | sgtbr1 wrote:
       | can someone share the data?
        
         | manvillej wrote:
         | what a tragedy, this person never learned how to read.
        
       | leanthonyrn wrote:
       | Intersting challenge. Here is the NotebookLM Audio: MTA's Open
       | Data program
       | https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/286a30b9-b17f-4dac-9e...
        
       | rayrrr wrote:
       | Hold my Metrocard.
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | Hold my bus transfer card.
        
       | whitej125 wrote:
       | Would be neat if instead an open-ended challenge ("here's some
       | data, do something cool") the MTA instead shared a list of
       | hypothetical or real problems to solve and provided data that
       | could be potentially useful in the exploration/solution to the
       | problem.
        
         | maxverse wrote:
         | Also, considering they just got a 68 billion dollar budget
         | approved [1] over the next 5 years, even a small monetary
         | reward would be nice for this. It doesn't need to be a ton of
         | money, but something other than "here's a piece of empty and
         | memorabilia and we'll write a blog post" would be a good
         | incentive
         | 
         | [1] https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/09/25/mta-
         | board-a...
        
         | doctorpangloss wrote:
         | Why would a cost center political institution enumerate all its
         | problems? It is kind of miraculous they can engage with the
         | public this way at all.
        
       | chaps wrote:
       | I do work with "open data" on a near-obsessive basis and --
       | friends, please do not trust "open data" portals to reflect
       | reality accurately. The datasets are often curated, categories
       | changed during the ETL processes, rows missing, and things like
       | that. For example, Chicago's "crimes" dataset intentionally
       | doesn't include all homicides. Can't remember the exact dataset,
       | but I once had a conversation with Chicago's head of open data
       | who told me that they intentionally removed many rows because
       | they were concerned that the public was going to misinterpret the
       | results... but didn't make it clear that rows were missing. So I
       | guess everybody gets the opportunity to misinterpret the results!
       | 
       | FOIA is the better alternative because it gives you the original,
       | pre-cleaned data. Open data is a lie.
        
         | kalendos wrote:
         | I can only imagine. Many ETLs are already messy in companies
         | with better tooling and processes.
         | 
         | Would love to read more about your experience with Open Data.
         | Any place where I can reach out?
        
           | chaps wrote:
           | Here's something about shotspotter data in Chicago:
           | https://x.com/foiachap/status/1775296597850480663
           | 
           | And this one makes some rounds: https://mchap.io/that-time-
           | the-city-of-seattle-accidentally-...
           | 
           | Feel free to reach out!
        
       | thecosas wrote:
       | Time for someone to crack their knuckles and do a Power Broker-
       | style MTA Open Data mashup :-)
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Broker
        
       | krebby wrote:
       | Some really nice example visualizations from Matt Yarri and Julia
       | Lynn at the MTA: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/matt-yarri_some-
       | of-the-data-w...
       | 
       | https://new.mta.info/article/introducing-subway-origin-desti...
        
       | nocman wrote:
       | I keep clicking on these 'MTA' articles expecting them to be
       | about a "message transfer agent".
       | 
       | Then I think, oh, right, wrong MTA. Guess I've spent too much
       | time dealing with email servers.
        
       | slt2021 wrote:
       | I could not find dataset with payroll hours reported and overtime
       | reimbursed for each MTA employee.
       | 
       | I wanted to investigate how well MTA is managing its workforce
       | and compensation (as to require additional tax in form of
       | Congestion Pricing to fix its budget hole), but there seems to be
       | no dataset for that.
       | 
       | Does anyone have links to MTA payroll/hours/overtime related
       | dataset?
       | 
       | or alternatively, I need dataset to study each and every subway
       | improvement project, and components of each project in materials,
       | labor and etc
        
         | WUMBOWUMBO wrote:
         | perhaps this could be covered in a FOIA request
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-27 23:00 UTC)