[HN Gopher] Timeshare owner? The Mexican drug cartels want you
___________________________________________________________________
Timeshare owner? The Mexican drug cartels want you
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 80 points
Date : 2024-09-25 16:28 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
| fortran77 wrote:
| People who bought timeshares are a great source of leads for a
| scammer.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Indeed... the gullible have been pre-selected for them.
| brezelgoring wrote:
| I'm not American, nor do I own a timeshare, but weren't
| timeshares scams in and of themselves? I remember reading about
| them about 15~20 years ago.
|
| Targeting victims of previous scams is common in crypto and MLM
| circles. The trick is almost always promising them an out of
| their previous losses with a new venture and this venture is sold
| to them on the basis of them being 'experienced' or
| 'knowledgeable' about the previous venture.
| ecshafer wrote:
| Timeshares / Vacation Clubs (they are basically the same thing)
| are massive scams. They use tricky math, high pressure sales
| tactics, etc. to push people who can't afford it into taking
| out massive loans to pay into contracts they can basically
| never get out of.
|
| I went to a vacation club presentation for a bunch of free
| stuff once, it wasn't worth it. But its crazy the things they
| push onto you. They make up numbers on how expensive vacations
| are to pressure people into thinking they have a deal. Then
| they try and sell a huge package ($50k+) and to push people
| into a 20%+ APR loan. Then if you do sign, they stick monthly
| fees on top of it in perpetuity.
|
| Its a bad idea, but I could see how people that don't have a
| sharp eye and a mathematical maturity might fall for it.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| They're certainly scammy and overpriced, but probably still a
| better deal than owning a full vacation home that sits empty
| most of the year....
| dawnerd wrote:
| Yes but when most won't let your heirs get out of the
| contract even that's the problem. In principle they make
| sense, Disneys for example has got to be the least scammy
| of them.
| rvnx wrote:
| Checked a little bit Disney. Picking a flexible option
| for a large family:
|
| From $350 to $1,200 per month for a 10-year loan with a
| 10% down payment = $144,117
|
| + the annual fees.
|
| Oh well...
|
| "Ability to finance through our in house financing with
| no credit check" errrrm.
|
| "A groundbreaking non-credit check model for financing
| DVC loans. No credit check, no debt-to-income ratios,
| simply financed based on the value of your purchase."
|
| Though if you purchase from the secondary market ( =
| people reselling it), it gets cheap enough that it
| becomes interesting.
| dawnerd wrote:
| Resell is the real value, but you need to make sure you
| understand the limitations to benefits as only people
| that have bought enough points directly get access to
| certain benefits such as lounges.
|
| And really the whole thing only makes sense if you pay
| upfront without a loan.
|
| I've priced it out a few times and for me it doesn't make
| sense despite staying at WDW ~ 4+ weeks a year.
|
| But when compared to other timeshares, it's not a total
| lock in and Disney has apparently started buying back
| contracts if you wanted out.
| rvnx wrote:
| Thank you!
| drsim wrote:
| I doubt it. You have the loan interest, annual service
| fees, and fact that you don't have a sellable asset, at
| least for anything like what you paid for it. An empty
| vacation home is still an appreciating asset. Not a good
| investment in my circumstances but still better than a
| timeshare.
| jandrese wrote:
| What is most amazing is that there is an entire industry
| of getting people out of timeshares. It's not cheap
| either. People are willing to pay large sums and take big
| losses for millstone removal. Timeshare companies pay a
| lot for every single successful sign up, so they are not
| willing to let them go without a fight.
| jerlam wrote:
| Some timeshare companies have their own buyback /
| abandonment programs in response to the scammy exit
| companies:
|
| HGVC: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hgvcs-deed-back-
| process.35...
|
| Hyatt: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hyatt-now-has-a-
| buy-back-p...
|
| Of course, these are not well advertised. And it
| contradicts the sales pitch of the timeshare maintaining
| / increasing in value if you are simply giving it back
| for free.
| jt2190 wrote:
| In a "Vacation club" you own a bag of "points" that you can
| use to book a unit at a resort. You are not guaranteed that
| units will be available, nor are you guaranteed a price
| (i.e. how many points you'll have to use). You will have to
| pay for points every year no matter what.
|
| True "shared ownership of a single unit at a resort" is far
| less common these days.
| reverend_gonzo wrote:
| Not quite. You can sell the vacation home, you can
| (usually) rent it out.
|
| It's your property; within zoning restrictions, you can do
| whatever you want with it.
|
| Not true with a timeshare.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Yes, you can but people that can afford vacation homes
| often let them sit empty and lose a lot of money because
| they don't want anyone messing with it- it is expensive,
| and loses a ton of money but they can afford it.
| bityard wrote:
| > you can (usually) rent it out.
|
| Only if you're lucky enough to own it in a place that
| hasn't outlawed AirBNB rentals yet.
|
| You didn't hear it from me but the scheme is: an
| individual or group of investors will buy several
| properties to AirBNB in a moderately-popular vacation
| spot. Typically someplace fairly rural and off the beaten
| path. But desirable enough for photos that might trend
| briefly on pinterest. Then they (rather covertly) drum up
| local support for banning AirBNBs, while being careful to
| make sure their existing rentals are grandfathered in.
| Now their investments have a moat and they can charge
| whatever they want for them, especially if there are no
| hotels or resorts anywhere nearby.
| jandrese wrote:
| That seems like a risky ploy. Guaranteeing that the
| existing AirBNBs get grandfathered in is far from
| certain. Then again, I've seen plenty of AirBNBs that
| just ignore the law so maybe it would be fine anyway. I
| once stayed in one that had explicit instructions on how
| to respond if someone asked you what you were doing at
| the house, which fake names to use and everything. Felt
| incredibly sketchy, but it was also about a third of the
| price of the cheapest hotel room in the area and didn't
| have cleaning fees or extensive checkout cleaning
| bullshit so that wasn't unexpected. Was a great location
| too.
| jerlam wrote:
| You can rent out timeshares on Redweek. I've never used
| the service but it's often recommended to timeshare
| owners who are unable to stay in their timeshare
| properties.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > but probably still a better deal than owning a full
| vacation home that sits empty most of the year
|
| If you can walk away: then 100% yes. I've considered a
| timeshare at a ski resort during the popular school
| vacation week.
|
| The problem is that often you can't walk away. IE, with a
| vacation home, you can sell it; or otherwise default on the
| mortgage / taxes. With a timeshare, that's harder.
|
| Personally, I just stay in hotels. So much easier, and the
| hotel bill is cheaper than whatever monthly payment the
| timeshare / vacation home is.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| > but probably still a better deal than owning a full
| vacation home that sits empty most of the year
|
| Timeshares give up a lot of the advantages of just owning a
| vacation home, without many advantages other than price.
|
| You have even less control of the property than a
| coop/condo, you don't get the financial incentive of
| possible real estate appreciation, there is no real liquid
| open market for resale.. etc.
|
| Time shares are like a casino where the house always wins.
| They control the costs/fees the same way a casino controls
| the odds/payouts. They are probably less regulated than a
| casino too.
|
| The other advantage to a proper vacation home is.. if its a
| beach / ski / whatever place whatever, you leave all your
| gear there, changes of clothes, etc.. not hauling stuff.
| brandall10 wrote:
| Which you can easily rent using a service like VRBO w/ the
| help of a local management service. My folks did just that
| on a property Loreto Bay in Baja California for 11 years,
| and for the most part, broke even on the cost of the
| mortgage and maintenance and got to use the property for
| free a couple months a year, then recoup some equity after
| selling. I'd argue that's better situation than a timeshare
| but YMMV depending on specifics.
|
| But what's even better than that would be to simply rent
| someone else's home when you did want to do such a
| vacation, esp. if that time of ownership is prevalent (in
| their case it was, as it was part of a community of 1000+
| privately owned homes).
| salad-tycoon wrote:
| Went to one once, one of the kids pooped. It was a bad one.
| The sales team wanted to keep going even as they enveloped by
| an incredibly thick stinky pungent hazardous stench. Real
| focus, reminded me of the movie quote "ABC always be
| closing." Was interesting to be on the receiving end, a lot
| to study and not just the offers of "amazing places" but more
| so in terms of presentation and tactics. Leave your pocket
| book at home but everyone should experience one. (Oh yeah,
| didn't sign of course, the rental locations were all on air
| bnb but cheaper and with none of the extra fees that they
| would have charged forever. Ha. Woops.)
| nicholasjarnold wrote:
| > the rental locations were all on air bnb but cheaper and
| with none of the extra fees that they would have charged
| forever
|
| Exactly! Came here to echo this. I have family that got
| roped into this arrangement and the annual maintenance fees
| (and other misc fees at every turn) coupled with the up-
| front cost is absolutely ridiculous when compared to just
| booking an AirBnB/VRBO/etc for a couple weeks.
|
| Also agree on sitting through one with zero intention to
| sign, once. It's a unique experience, and I feel like most
| people not already doing sales/marketing professionally
| might learn something from it.
| ecshafer wrote:
| The ABC thing is very evident when you are on the end of
| it. Every excuse to keep you there and try to get you to
| sign, they have a response for it. No money? We have loans.
| Bad credit? Lets get a cosigner. Anything to keep you there
| or to sign.
| patwolf wrote:
| I don't think scam is the right word. Timeshare sales may be
| predatory, but they're not fraudulent.
| the_gorilla wrote:
| Calling something a scam can just mean they profit off
| highly immoral behavior or are inherently deceptive. Loan
| sharks are scams. Pyramid schemes were scams, even when
| they weren't illegal.
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| It's wild that "predatory" doesn't sound at least as bad as
| "fraudulent". Customers aren't prey just as much as they're
| not people to be lied to!
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| Scam is more general than outright fraud. I would say they
| mislead you about the financials enough to count.
| xnyan wrote:
| I've never seen a single timeshare that makes sense in
| terms of cost to value ratio. There's always a more
| flexible/cheaper/profitable way to do whatever it is you're
| trying to do than a timeshare, unless of course you're the
| one selling it. Very fair to call it a scam.
| jandrese wrote:
| I went to one of those timeshare presentations before just
| because the free prize for sitting through it was especially
| desirable.
|
| My impression is that they were heavily targeting people who
| were bad at math. Every time I ran the numbers (I had a lot
| of opportunities while trapped in the room waiting for the
| prize counter to open) it just made no sense whatsoever.
| Beyond the amount you were overpaying for the apartment, the
| fees we so expensive that you could vacation on what you
| would have been paying in fees for a long time. The fees
| didn't even get you much, you still had to do all of the
| cleaning and a lot of the maintenance as they were not
| included. The fees only really covered exterior maintenance
| and mowing the lawns, and were about two or three orders of
| magnitude higher than they should be for those services if
| you assumed every unit in the complex was paying them 52
| times a year.
|
| Timeshares as a concept could in theory work, but the entire
| industry consists of grifters far more focused on getting
| rich than providing a service to their customers. It is
| ironic that the primary focus of the presentations is how
| expensive it would be to take a beach vacation every year,
| which is true, and how timeshares in concept could make this
| much more affordable, which is also true, but then they show
| you the numbers and the reality is completely opposite.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| Out of curiosity: what kind of freebies are there during
| such presentations? (I am form France and we don't really
| have that concept here)
| jandrese wrote:
| Free weekend vacation at Disney World, including
| admission to the parks. You actually stayed in one of the
| timeshare units they were trying to sell. The
| presentation was about 3 hours long, and mostly consisted
| of a high pressure sales pitch full of dubious claims.
| The salesguys were not impressed by the math.
| basementcat wrote:
| After some negotiation (don't settle for the first
| "prize" they offer you) I got a free flight and hotel to
| Orlando, FL and I used the time to visit the Air Force
| Missile Museum at Cape Canaveral (at the time, I had a
| badge that let me get on base to visit the museum).
|
| You do need to be prepared for a hard sell. They are
| clearly making money otherwise they wouldn't fly me
| around the country.
| xnyan wrote:
| I think the prizes I've seen are generally in the range
| of $300-600 cash value. To get it you have to sit through
| the hardest and most annoying sales pitch imaginable. I
| did it once. I was never tempted even slightly to buy
| their scam, but it was so miserable to sit through that
| it's not something I'd ever do again.
| nunez wrote:
| They usually offer heavily discounted stays at hotels in
| prime locations, free cruises, and other vacation-y
| things.
| anthomtb wrote:
| > I went to a vacation club presentation for a bunch of free
| stuff once, it wasn't worth it.
|
| My wife and I signed up for a snorkel tour a few years ago,
| one of those "attend this 45 minute presentation and get your
| tour for half price!" deals.
|
| We skipped the presentation and ended up being charged the
| full tour cost plus something extra, I think $25/person on a
| $200/person tour.
|
| That has to be close to the best 50 bucks I ever spent.
| nunez wrote:
| I haven't tried this (yet), but I read that pointing out how
| much more cheaply one could get a timeshare on eBay gets you
| an immediate out from the negotiation process.
|
| Timeshares on eBay are crazy cheap by comparison. A timeshare
| in Hawaii during prime season can be had for $50k or
| something like that, which sounds like a lot until you
| realize that the vacation clubs will sell that timeshare for,
| like, $500k.
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| Everything happens at least twice. There actually is an
| established industry to supposedly help folks get out of
| timeshares.
| fmobus wrote:
| Also, there are plenty of scams in that same industry.
|
| Timeshares: not even once.
| eric-hu wrote:
| When you say "to supposedly help", do you mean they actually
| help, or this industry is also scammers?
|
| Asking because someone in my extended family owns a timeshare
| and got scammed with an exit offer. It sounded similar to the
| timeshare pitch itself.
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| I am very sorry to hear that and I hope they can properly
| escape this situation.
|
| Maybe my opinion is biased (the media generally does not
| publish "everythibg is a-OK" articles), but my perception
| of the timeshare escape industry is that they are sketchy
| too.
|
| I think this Last Week Tonight episode is very informative
| on the topic:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM
| vundercind wrote:
| They're notorious and have been featured in tons of episodes of
| TV shows (including a particularly good early-ish episode of
| South Park, among more-ordinary sitcoms and such) since at
| least the 90s. They're a punch line.
|
| My parents nonetheless fell for one in the early 20-teens. How
| they had missed this particular bit of common wisdom, I have no
| idea.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > weren't timeshares scams in and of themselves?
|
| They're not technically scams. Just generally not good things
| to own for most people.
|
| If you use your vacation time every year for the rest of your
| life, they can be decent.
|
| It's just that most people don't want to vacation to the same
| place, the same week every year. And they're notoriously
| difficult to get out of.
| RaftPeople wrote:
| My parents bought into Worldmark by Wyndham and they or us
| kids used it a ton, and the facilities were all pretty nice,
| so there are some that work out well.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Kind of. Timeshare sales are famous for their high-pressure
| sales tactics (see the famous South Park episode), so there
| would be an assumption that these people are susceptible to
| these tactics.
|
| The issue is less that timeshares are outright scams (though
| some are), but it's that buyers are locked into a very long
| term contract that is difficult and expensive to get out off.
| What may have seemed like a great idea to take the kids on an
| annual beach vacation now becomes a PITA when those kids are
| teenagers and now don't want to go on trips with their parents.
|
| So with timeshare owners you have (a) people likely susceptible
| to high pressure sales tactics who (b) are likely highly
| motivated to get out of their contract. So a perfect target for
| scammers.
| ztetranz wrote:
| John Oliver on timeshares:
|
| https://youtu.be/Bd2bbHoVQSM?si=Gci5R5xrHs_ff-kw
| the_gorilla wrote:
| If I wanted to see what John Oliver had to say about
| timeshares I'd just go look it up. This is essentially spam.
| hosh wrote:
| Timeshares are very much scammy. What sucks is that it's all
| legal. If anything, the law -- the ones that protect the
| interests of real estate owners and lenders -- is used to lock
| people into making payments that are very difficult to get out
| of.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| My friend's wife attended a timeshare presentation and,
| unfortunately, she ended up signing. She thought she got a
| great deal - _" We can go to Hawaii twice-per-year, and pay far
| less than staying at a hotel!"_ Well, almost immediately, they
| started receiving invoices with outrageous charges, like
| "maintenance fees" and dubious property taxes. The original
| contract was for $200/month, but all the additional charges
| brought the cost to around $2000/month. They tried to get out
| of the contract. The timeshare company wouldn't return their
| calls. Finally, after a few months they talked to someone who
| told them there was no getting out of the contract - basically,
| _" Sorry, you signed a contract."_ My friend and his wife ended
| up declaring bankruptcy, just to get out of the timeshare
| contract. They never even went to the timeshare. Not once.
| nradov wrote:
| That story seems to be missing some pieces. Most people would
| just refuse to pay the invoices and wait for the timeshare
| company to sue. I suspect your friends might have had other
| financial problems beyond just the timeshare.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Seems quite nutty to think you'd find yourself flying to
| Hawaii twice per year even if the housing was free
| morkalork wrote:
| The crazy thing to me is always going to the same place for
| vacation. Really? No variety, ever?
| toast0 wrote:
| It's a long flight, but it's not an unreasonably expensive
| flight. Especially if you live in a place with winter, it
| might be nice to visit in novemberish and marchish to get a
| warm week in between your cold at home. There's lots of
| people who live near me and visit Hawaii once a year.
|
| Personally, I'd be more likely to do a two week stay than
| two one week stays, I'd rather reduce my time on an
| airplane. But leaving for two weeks is harder than leaving
| for one for all sorts of reasons.
| saalweachter wrote:
| The most important part of any contract is the termination
| clause.
| thebruce87m wrote:
| My parents had various timeshares and got good holidays from
| them and were generally happy, so I don't think they are by
| default a scam.
|
| We still go to one 30 years later, and the maintenance is about
| 1/3 of what you'd pay for an equivalent hotel room (EUR1,000 vs
| EUR3,000) so I think overall they are "up".
| Johnny555 wrote:
| They aren't all scams, but they are not an "investment". As
| long as you understand the program terms and restrictions and
| you buy your timeshare in a place you'd go anyway, you can get
| good value out of the money.
|
| But few people do that much research and find out that they
| don't use it as much as they thought they would either because
| they don't like the place enough to keep going back, or they
| didn't account for blackout dates, floating weeks, etc and
| can't find a time when they can go.
|
| But if you do buy a timeshare, by on the secondary market,
| don't buy a new one, they quickly drop in value on resale.
| obmelvin wrote:
| For anyone curious to hear more about how this happens, and a
| discussion with someone who was a former police officer (maybe
| even detective?) yet still fell victim, The Daily did an episode
| on this in April as well
|
| In general, I've seen lots of 'victim blaming' with these sorts
| of scams. I mean, I do understand that it's easy to sit there and
| think 'I understand sending money the first time, but how do you
| still fall for it the 6th time they ask you to send more money?'.
| But I think it's important to remember that victims are often
| older or new to the country*. These scams are designed and
| refined to make you feel trapped.
|
| * I'm aware the OP involves a Canadian couple and the NYT story
| involves an American couple. I don't think the direct country
| matters. Most of these scams are all about scaring and isolating
| someone.
|
| NYT link - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/podcasts/the-
| daily/scam-c...
|
| YT link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3biituRAiVg
| hosh wrote:
| Timeshares themselves are already shady, and there are many
| people desperate to offload them.
|
| Also, there are psychological biases at play too, regardless of
| whether you are older or newer to the country. One of key bias
| in the engine that runs scams and cons is that, once you have
| done something for someone, you are more likely to keep doing
| things for them. Even knowing this does not really inoculate
| you to that effect.
| panarky wrote:
| People who are gullible enough to buy shady timeshares are
| gullible for other scams too.
| jancsika wrote:
| > I mean, I do understand that it's easy to sit there and think
| 'I understand sending money the first time, but how do you
| still fall for it the 6th time they ask you to send more
| money?'.
|
| Such an assumption would show a clear lack of empathy, no? Esp.
| on HN where nearly all are familiar with data-mining and
| relentless targeting of people based on data.
|
| Time share companies are notoriously aggressive in their sales
| pitch. So "the set of people who bought time shares" already
| selects for people who have a much higher propensity to send
| money to these scammers, even multiple times. And upon being
| scammed, they probably also get their data sold to hundreds
| other scammers and get stuck in a recursive loop of scam
| attempts at a much higher rate than the average HN-er.
| e40 wrote:
| I listened to that podcast. I remember being really frustrated
| with the ex-cop and thinking there were so many red flags. I
| wonder if it really unfolded as presented.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| 'I understand sending money the first time, but how do you
| still fall for it the 6th time they ask you to send more
| money?'.
|
| I think that falls under the "sunk cost fallacy". Like they are
| thinking "Well, I've invested so much money already and I'm so
| close to the payoff now, I may as well send a little more"
| fein wrote:
| Seniors had the fortunate, and unfortunate now, opportunity to
| grow up in a considerably more high trust society than we
| currently live in. I've seen multiple elderly fall for this same
| style of scam - in some cases it is due to aging and not having
| all of the mental faculties that were once available, but in many
| other cases it's because these people lived most of their lives
| when you weren't conditioned to assume everyone is lying to you
| until proven otherwise.
|
| In some ways I envy them for living in a time period where
| immediate distrust wasn't the status quo.
| elwebmaster wrote:
| Why is that? What changed? Can anything be done to restore the
| honor?
| usednet wrote:
| > Comparing the two scenarios, we found that about half of
| the observed decline in US social trust may stem from: i)
| ever more unemployment experiences, ii) ever less confidence
| in political institutions, and iii) a slight but systematic
| decrease in satisfaction with income.
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X2.
| ..
|
| I would also wager it has to do with increasing social and
| economic stratification and decreasing homogeneity.
| exogenousdata wrote:
| I'm not sure it was like that. Back then they had scams.
| Postal scams, work-at-home scams, beauty product scams, etc.
|
| One possible different might be the internet. Allowing
| scammers access to so many people makes it easier to fish.
| There was probably an increase in scamming after the
| mainstream use of the telephone.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| > Why is that? What changed?
|
| There is more opportunity for scams.
|
| You didn't have ~20% of the population being old and feeble
| and rich until relatively recently.
|
| In 2000, <10% of the population was seniors. It's been going
| up rapidly since then, and the growth rate won't slow until
| around 2030.
|
| After 2030, it'll take another 30 years for the rate to
| increase ~7%. It only took about the last 10 years for it to
| go up ~10%.
|
| Not to mention, in 2000, seniors didn't have the type of
| housing equity they have now (in REAL terms).
| owlninja wrote:
| Plus it is much easier to cast a giant net these days.
| mikestew wrote:
| _Seniors had the fortunate, and unfortunate now, opportunity to
| grow up in a considerably more high trust society than we
| currently live in._
|
| I question that. "Swamp land in Florida" has been a thing since
| before this retiree was born. Sales of similarly useless land
| in Arizona. Look up "California City" for another example.
| Cemetery plots, hmm, I'm sure I've missed others. Let's not get
| started on car dealers.
|
| I don't recall a time, and I'm confident my parents will say
| the same thing, where one didn't distrust a salesperson by
| default.
| paxys wrote:
| The concept of scamming wasn't invented on the internet. People
| have been getting conned ever since money was a thing (and
| probably well before that).
| xyst wrote:
| Get scammed by signing up for a timeshare contract. Then get
| scammed by "timeshare exit" companies. Then conned again by drug
| cartels.
|
| These time share companies need to get bent. These platforms
| perpetuate the worst types of scams on our most vulnerable
| populations (elderly).
|
| I went to one of these timeshare pitches because they were giving
| away free stays at an associated hotel -- got a "free" 4
| day/night accommodation. The catch here was I had to attend a 1-2
| hour sales pitch for their "club" (timeshare).
|
| Read the fine print before accepting the 4 day/night
| accommodation to make sure I did not have to accept a timeshare
| contract. Only obligation was the sales pitch and stay for the
| entire pitch.
|
| Scheduled the pitch for later in the week of the vacation. Set a
| timer on my watch/phone as soon as I checked in for 1.5 hrs.
| Listened passively to their pitch. I feigned interest but
| ultimately declined each contract and each attempt to pull my
| credit report (do not give these people your SSN).
|
| Each decline was met with:
|
| - "I can go back to my manager and get a better deal. I'm making
| no profit". Person comes back with a contract that throws in a
| bunch of "perks" (more "points" or something like that).
|
| - high pressure sales tactics like: "this deal expires today".
| "I'm basically giving this away for free".
|
| - Lies such as: "vacation anywhere you want in the world and any
| time". But clearly contract and terms state otherwise and need to
| purchase additional "points" at certain locations. Doesn't
| include holidays.
|
| - more lies such as "after it's paid off, you 'own' the time
| share". Again, it's bullshit. the "monthly maintenance fees" are
| in perpetuity (forever) and go up at any time at the discretion
| of club. You don't "own" jack shit. The contract is worthless.
|
| There were several other people as well in doing the sales pitch
| and made sure to call out the absurdities and lies so everyone
| could hear.
|
| As soon as my watch/phone timer alerted. Got up, shake hands with
| sales person and manager, and I just left. I fulfilled my
| obligation.
| backspace_ wrote:
| But, did you successfully receive that 4 day/night
| accommodation?
| duxup wrote:
| A family member took over another family member's time share
| after they passed.
|
| Their options and just getting anything scheduled was becoming
| harder and harder to the point that you couldn't schedule
| anything. They took your money and pretty much no dates were
| available....
|
| It just so happened that this family member frequently traveled
| for work and were in some credit card + hotel points program
| that also was managed by the corporation that ran the time
| share. They went and checked what they could redeem their
| points for and ... it was the exact locations they used to be
| able to book via the timeshare.
|
| The company had taken the timeshare owners money, now that they
| had it, they gave the benefits to their points / credit card
| customers.
|
| In a semi related story I worked once with a timeshare company
| who wanted to "get into the digital age". I never worked with a
| more ignorant customer. Their standard operating procedure was
| to get their vendors on a conference call and tell them to
| "figure it out".
| jandrese wrote:
| How is that not just ordinary fraud? That may be the best
| case scenario for getting out of the timeshare agreement,
| bring it up before the court and getting a judgement against
| the timeshare company.
| duxup wrote:
| Pretty much, but that's what timeshares kinda are...
| Animats wrote:
| The web site looks like a typical crypto scam.[1]
|
| [1]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230216090211/https://ecurrency...
| thih9 wrote:
| That's a creative way of finding marks. Timeshares are a
| notoriously bad investment[1]; people with a timeshare might be
| easier to rope into another bad investment (a scam).
|
| [1]: https://moneywise.com/investing/real-estate/why-buying-a-
| tim...
| lolinder wrote:
| That article is useful context for this--it points out that
| there are way more people trying to sell timeshares than buy
| them, which means that people who want to get out from under
| one can't do so easily. That creates an environment ripe for
| scammers who can promise to finally take this bad investment
| off your hands.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| Has anyone else noticed the elephant in the room?
|
| The Krebs case study claims that the couple was unable to
| "legally sell" the timeshare due to their remaining payments.
|
| So these scammers were asking them to do what--illegally sell to
| them? What are the consequences or repercussions of a premature
| sale?
|
| "Hey, yeah, we know we've got a bad investment; looks like some
| Mexican sucker is calling us to let us off the hook!"
|
| If this is true, and the couple was cooperating _knowingly_ with
| a gray-market transaction, then their hands weren 't clean at
| all, and I can't muster any sympathy here.
|
| The usual litany of red flags: they cold-called you. You did no
| due diligence, probably because you _knew_ they had to be shady.
| They promised you money, but then asked for advance fees. What
| legit consumer just falls for all that, unless they 're desperate
| and shady themselves?
|
| Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
| ElevenLathe wrote:
| This is typical of confidence tricks like this. That's why we
| have the saying "You can't cheat an honest man".
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