[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Platform for 11 year old to create video games?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ask HN: Platform for 11 year old to create video games?
        
       My 11 year old has a lot of interest in creating games. They are a
       very creative kid currently experimenting with using Power
       Point/Google Presentations to create a crafting and turn based
       combat style game but is running into the obvious limitations of
       this setup. They have some very rudimentary understanding of coding
       (together we recently created a command line version of Rock Paper
       Scissors Lizard Spock from scratch in Python and they were able to
       follow along the whole way), but I don't think their best bet is to
       start with a code first platform just yet. Maybe something with
       scripting capabilities when they need them but mostly with the
       ability to create a point and click interface with something
       specific happening on each click.  Does anyone know what's out
       there that would work for them in this case? FWIW I don't know Lua
       but anything with JavaScript or Python built in would make it easy
       for me to help them. Thanks in advance!
        
       Author : IgorPartola
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2024-09-20 19:39 UTC (5 days ago)
        
       | burkaman wrote:
       | You could look at Adventure Game Studio:
       | https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/. It does require some
       | scripting, but you can get away with very basic stuff. Here's an
       | overview of the scripting language:
       | https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/ags/tutorial/scri....
       | 
       | Another option I have not tried myself is GDevelop:
       | https://gdevelop.io/. It looks like you can get pretty far
       | without any code at all, although you do that with an "events"
       | editor that is basically a simple visual scripting language.
        
         | a1o wrote:
         | The updated manual for AGS is maintained in GitHub, a tutorial
         | is here with some screens of the Editor
         | https://adventuregamestudio.github.io/ags-manual/acintro1.ht...
        
       | I_Am_Nous wrote:
       | Roblox Studio is a very powerful system, my 8 year old has played
       | around with it to make simple maps and obbys. People have coded
       | Call of Duty style games on Roblox (such as Frontlines) so it's
       | pretty surprising how far you can stretch the engine.
        
       | gus_massa wrote:
       | I remember a few post of games made by children in Scratch
       | https://scratch.mit.edu/
       | 
       | For example:
       | 
       | * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23892698
       | 
       | * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26050913
       | 
       | (My daughter tried to use Scratch, but it's too difficult to
       | cut&paste and move blocks of code, she preferred a text based
       | programming language, so YMMV.)
        
         | Triphibian wrote:
         | My 11-year-old still enjoys scratch -- he watches YouTubers
         | like Grifpatch to learn higher level concepts.
         | 
         | There's also PenguinMod which feels like Scratch with more
         | assets.
        
         | davesmylie wrote:
         | I'm not a huge fan of scratch (for obvious reasons I'm not the
         | target audience!), but my 10 year old can't get enough of it.
         | 
         | Recently we started digging into some of the more "advanced"
         | concepts (basically arrays and functions) and I was surprised
         | how far you could actually get with the system.
         | 
         | I'm trying to move him off scratch on to something text based,
         | but imo for a kid it's hard to go wrong starting with Scratch.
        
           | noufalibrahim wrote:
           | The social angle of sharing ones games with friends and
           | getting likes etc. and the ability to quickly play it off a
           | link are huge factors that keep motivation high for kids.
           | 
           | This is underappreciated. I've been teaching my son JS but
           | his main gripe is that he doesn't have an easy way to share
           | his stuff in a quickly playable format.
        
             | szvsw wrote:
             | Time to teach him nextjs and get him deploying to vercel!!
             | (Or at least set up a template for him!)
             | 
             | Also, out of curiosity, have you been teaching him JS or
             | TS? I feel like it is a sin to not use TS these days, but
             | not sure if it makes it easier or harder for a new young
             | programmer to learn.
        
               | lytedev wrote:
               | val.town or something similar may be an option?
        
         | abrookewood wrote:
         | Scratch is fantastic.
         | 
         | There are also a number of similar (block-based) tools that let
         | you create your own custom blocks and see the code behind them
         | - e.g. Blockly (https://developers.google.com/blockly)
        
         | chii wrote:
         | you can also use microsoft's https://www.microsoft.com/en-
         | us/makecode
         | 
         | it's slightly more user friendly imho, and you could do some
         | more advanced stuff than scratch (i mean advanced as in using
         | text, rather than blocks).
        
           | dunham wrote:
           | I also like that you can get a pybadge or similar device and
           | run your creations on it.
        
       | ahazred8ta wrote:
       | On a smaller scale, there's an entire genre of 'interactive
       | fiction' text games a la Zork. The scripting / authoring is
       | fairly easy to pick up. https://textadventures.co.uk/
        
       | dtagames wrote:
       | Microsoft MakeCode Arcade is terrific. It has both a block
       | interface and real Typescript under the hood, and you can switch
       | back and forth anytime.
        
         | jaustin wrote:
         | MakeCode Arcade also has the ability to put your games on
         | physical hardware, which can be a game changer for engagement.
         | A simple game on a 128x256 grid can feel a bit "rubbish" on a
         | laptop screen, but put it on something with a Gameboy form
         | factor and it comes into its own.
         | 
         | Arcade also has amazing editors for sound, sprites, etc.
         | 
         | Here's Flappy Bird
         | https://arcade.makecode.com/88444-57913-28610-31751 (Not made
         | by me!)
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | [random parental advice from the internet]
       | 
       | Pick an adult solution and sit with them to provide adult
       | guidance. You are at the stage where your relationship with your
       | child becomes peer to peer.
       | 
       | If game programming stays their jam, you will be learning game
       | programming from them in the blink of an eye. It's joyous and
       | wonderful and only gets better.
       | 
       | Sure you will miss them being a small child, but you will know an
       | amazing adult. (and they will always be a small child sometimes
       | just as we all are).
       | 
       | The platform doesn't matter. Your relationship does. Good luck.
        
         | caseyy wrote:
         | I'd argue against this. If the tool is too difficult, kids
         | often lose interest. So it can have an adverse effect.
         | 
         | As much as I'd want to teach my 11 year old kid Unreal Engine,
         | it's not realistic. Pun not intended.
        
           | gorjusborg wrote:
           | I think it depends on the child and parent.
           | 
           | My approach with my kids has always been "don't dumb it
           | down". They may not be into programming, but at least they'll
           | be exposed to it.
           | 
           | By giving them the 'easy' version, you are putting up
           | barriers that don't need to be there. Kids are smarter than
           | many adults give them credit for, but again, it depends on
           | the kid.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | You would be teaching a soon-to-be-adult about the adult
           | world. The game engine is entirely incidental to developing a
           | peer to peer relationship.
           | 
           | Their interest in spending time with you will diminish. That
           | reality is the one to optimize for. Recreational interests
           | come and go and come back sometimes. But most don't stick.
           | 
           | Learning Unreal Engine with your 11 year old is possible, but
           | not for more than year.
        
         | AlexITC wrote:
         | I have done this, it can work with some kids, still, its too
         | much work.
         | 
         | At this age, I think it is more important to keep them
         | motivated and find ways to use their creativity than to get
         | them through the pains of debugging and learning too many
         | technical concepts, even simple details like learning about
         | image formats, how to reference them, case-sensitiveness are
         | just obstacles against meeting their goals.
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | I feel like we don't give kids enough credit. Game devs who
           | started in the 70s and 80s learned BASIC and all the
           | technicalities of their platforms back then, some eventually
           | moving to Pascal, C, or Assembly. The platforms had fewer
           | variables back then (code running in real mode, your machine
           | was identical to others of the same platform), but kids were
           | still able to learn the minutiae of the Apple II or Commodore
           | 64.
        
       | shortrounddev2 wrote:
       | pico-8
        
         | natt941 wrote:
         | +1 to this, my son really enjoys programming for pico-8
        
         | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
         | Yes, it's very accessible. My son wrote a game on it (with a
         | lot of help from me, but he got it).
        
         | ChristopherDrum wrote:
         | +1 on this. Even as an adult I found other game authoring
         | systems too complex to jump into and feel comfortable with (as
         | a hobbyist). Pico-8 was the fastest, easiest "I'm thinking of
         | something" to "I'm seeing something happen on screen" iterative
         | development cycle and a joy to use. Plus, a great community of
         | people willing to help on lexaloffle.com and especially
         | Discord. Some great YouTube tutorials out there as well.
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | I learned to code games in QuickBASIC, and pico 8 to me is
           | the closest experience I ever had to that. The tools for
           | putting something on the screen are immediately available
           | with no infrastructure work required. You don't need to
           | create a window, load files, choose a screen mode or
           | anything. You just draw a sprite in the sprite editor and
           | call `spr`
        
       | gcheong wrote:
       | Game maker studio might fit the bill: https://gamemaker.io/en
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | +1 for GameMaker, though I used it about 20 years ago as a kid.
         | I don't know how well its developed since then.
        
           | lovegrenoble wrote:
           | +1 for GM
        
         | daviddoran wrote:
         | Like other commenters I used Game Maker 20 or so years ago and
         | not only made games but also programmed little utilities to
         | solve problems at my Dad's work. It was a phenomenal blank
         | canvas for creating games and programs and learning to program
         | (because there's both Scratch-style drag and drop programming,
         | and a programming language).
        
         | jaredandrews wrote:
         | This is what I used when I was 11. Been 15 years since I last
         | used it, so no idea how much it's changed. The thing that was
         | nice about Game Maker for young me, was that it had a drag and
         | drop and programming language interface and you could switch
         | between the two pretty seamlessly. This really helped me learn
         | how to code early on.
        
         | xahrepap wrote:
         | +1 here. I've been facilitating a video game maker club for
         | kids aged 11-15. I have ~7 kids who come. Most kids are 11-13
         | but 2 are 15.
         | 
         | Since they're all new to programming in general the club has
         | mostly been me teaching them. The kids are having a ton of fun.
         | It's slow moving. But they love it.
         | 
         | They also have the GUI scripting instead of the javascript. I
         | haven't actually tried it.
        
       | cableshaft wrote:
       | If you don't mind doing choose your own adventure style stories,
       | I'd recommend Twine. It's a low-to-no code way to write branching
       | stories, and you can add variables and conditional branching if
       | you want to add a little bit of code. It creates a playable
       | website of your story when it compiles.
       | 
       | I do a lot of heavy coding but I still play around with Twine
       | sometimes because it's fun. I also sometimes prototype the
       | branching dialogue and/or story in my games using that as a tool
       | as well, because I don't have to code anything.
       | 
       | https://twinery.org/
       | 
       | There's also a subreddit for discussing twine games:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/twinegames/
       | 
       | A couple examples of how far you can take the engine:
       | https://pseudavid.itch.io/the-master-of-the-land
       | 
       | And this one is super addicting. I played it 12 times in a row
       | after trying it: https://johnayliff.itch.io/seedship
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | Seconding this! Twine is the ideal next step for the hypertext-
         | style games OP describes their child having made - it's
         | designed around that exact paradigm of game design, just with
         | more powerful tools.
        
         | smcin wrote:
         | And if they use Twine (or other) to create text adventure
         | stories, then they should also look at the annual IFComp (The
         | Interactive Fiction Competition) https://ifcomp.org/
         | 
         | Several winning entries have been written by children or
         | teenagers, with some help from parents.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | That's awesome. Thanks!
        
       | andai wrote:
       | When I was that age I made a bouncing ball in Flash
       | (ActionScript, similar to JS).[0]
       | 
       | This is still my "hello world" when trying out a new game dev
       | environment because it covers:
       | 
       | - drawing
       | 
       | - movement
       | 
       | - input
       | 
       | - acceleration
       | 
       | - gravity
       | 
       | - friction
       | 
       | - collision
       | 
       | And all of these in essentially the simplest possible way.
       | 
       | Most of all, it's a lot of fun to have a bouncing ball, and even
       | more fun if you can use the keyboard or mouse to play with it!
       | 
       | For a more structured approach, I'd say draw a circle (or
       | square), then add movement, then make it fall down, then a floor
       | to catch it, then bounce it, etc...
       | 
       | [0] It's not too hard to do in pure JS / Canvas (I am very fond
       | of tiny builds with no dependencies), tho the canvas API is
       | surprisingly unpleasant, so I'd recommend something like Pixi or
       | Phaser.
        
         | rkhassen9 wrote:
         | I still lament the loss of Flash. It's ability to get in there
         | and as a single user do everything from design to animation to
         | code front end and back end was enormously flexible and easy
         | for creatively engaging and creating. It fit the "bicycle of
         | the mind" concept.
         | 
         | As far as I know, no single tool has replicated that kind of
         | freedom. For rapid prototypes that one could actually
         | iteratively build on top of top make a full application it was
         | amazing.
         | 
         | I know about the issues and why it isn't secure etc etc, but in
         | terms of you could interact with it to create we are still at a
         | loss.
        
           | andai wrote:
           | I've dreamed of cloning Flash for a long time. Aiming for
           | full compatibility is infeasible (unless you can convince the
           | Ruffle folks to give it a go once they're done with Ruffle!),
           | but aiming to capture the _spirit_ of Flash (e.g. build Flash
           | like authoring tools on top of TS /WebGL) is certainly
           | doable.
           | 
           | The Wick editor was one such attempt, though it didn't gain
           | traction and was abandoned.
           | 
           | Also there seem to be quite a lot of us who feel this way --
           | a dozen or more every time Flash is mentioned on HN -- maybe
           | it's time we got organized? "Everybody talks about the
           | weather but nobody ever does anything about it!"
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | I feel you.
             | 
             | I have looked at the Wick Editors source code and managed a
             | sucessful build with some minor changes and felt picking it
             | up is doable, but not easy. But a satisfying way to
             | develope for me, would require a rewrite of many parts. Or
             | most parts, except the UI ..
             | 
             | Pixi as the graphical base would be the way, I think.
             | 
             | But I could not do it as a side project as of now, maybe
             | one bright other day.
        
             | BatFastard wrote:
             | Have you checked out https://haxe.org/ It supports Action
             | script, and is the spiritual successor to Flash
        
           | HKH2 wrote:
           | When HTML5 was supposed to replace Flash, I just thought I
           | didn't know enough about HTML5. Turns out that it was never
           | an adequate replacement and it was just more Web 2.0
           | sterility.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | I mean, I miss silly flash games and 0 other applications
             | of flash. I can see why people miss it from a creator point
             | of view, but it was extremely annoying in general.
        
               | HKH2 wrote:
               | It was great for animation with interactions. Also, flash
               | files could easily be saved and shared offline.
        
         | relaxing wrote:
         | For anyone wanting to do this in JS, check out Dan Shiffman's
         | _Nature of Code_ https://natureofcode.com/
         | 
         | Uses p5js, so nicer than pure canvas.
         | 
         | Note there's a big leap from making a simple physics toy to
         | making a _game_.
        
           | andai wrote:
           | I actually turned my "ball that can accelerate with keyboard
           | input" into a physics puzzle platformer with minimal
           | additional code (platform collision).
           | 
           | I rebranded the ball to a box and made it so it plays a
           | rocket animation in each (opposite) direction when you press
           | the arrow keys. (In Flash, this was trivial!)
           | 
           | Made it so you had a certain amount of fuel and had to land
           | to refuel.
           | 
           | I remember all of this taking a day or so, but I might be
           | misremembering.
           | 
           | I had it mostly working but then I changed something, broke
           | it, and didn't know how to fix it. (Box kept sinking through
           | the floor)
           | 
           | These days I'd probably just use Box2D hahah
        
         | bemmu wrote:
         | Many bouncing balls are also doable without knowing any actual
         | physics. Balls overlap? Push them away from each other such
         | that the next frame they'd no longer overlap. The result looks
         | surprisingly acceptable.
         | 
         | And if you add some blur (I think in Flash this was just a
         | property you can set) based on how fast the ball is moving, it
         | somehow looks more satisfying still.
        
           | andai wrote:
           | One of my favorite projects was a bouncing ball sim synced
           | over the network. So you could mess with the balls in one
           | window and it would update in the other too. I never added
           | ball-on-ball action though...
        
       | bluesmoon wrote:
       | Not specifically game related, but adjacent. Sonic Pi
       | (https://sonic-pi.net/) is designed for making music specifically
       | with kids in mind, and they might accidentally learn a whole
       | bunch of programming concepts as a side-effect.
        
       | AshleysBrain wrote:
       | We make Construct 3: https://editor.construct.net
       | 
       | You can start with a visual block-based system and move on to
       | JavaScript/TypeScript. We have a lot of schools using it to help
       | teach programming concepts in a fun way. Happy to answer any
       | questions!
        
       | invalidOrTaken wrote:
       | I had a blast with Klik'n'Play as a kid. The modern version is
       | called Clickteam Fusion. Revisited it a while ago with my nephew,
       | it has a pretty good tutorial.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickteam
        
         | thecopy wrote:
         | When i was young i started with Power Point too, then i started
         | using "The Games Factory" from Clickteam. I think thats what
         | started my programming path.
        
       | keb_ wrote:
       | My 11 year old cousin loves Scratch. He's made several games and
       | "movies" using it.
       | 
       | Another more powerful alternative is Stencyl:
       | https://stencyl.com/
        
       | pokpokpok wrote:
       | try websim.ai or roblox studio
        
       | Matheus28 wrote:
       | Have you tried RPG Maker? It's really fun. I remember using it as
       | a kid. It's focused on turn based combat.
        
       | mmmlinux wrote:
       | Ive heard good things about gamemaker, as well as RPGmaker. there
       | was one I used to mess around with as a kid I think it was one of
       | those two but cant quite recall. pretty sure it was something
       | maker though. The important thing is to think about the process
       | of making the game. getting the concept together, making a
       | story..
        
       | readyplayernull wrote:
       | The SVG format is easy to learn and you can write your graphics
       | manually inside HTML. I've been using it to make 2D objects in
       | JavaScript that can be positioned, rotated and scaled using the
       | transform style property. You can also animate them with CSS.
       | It's a shame there isn't a similar scriptable format for audio,
       | something like MIDI. Otherwise you can use a canvas, or even a 3D
       | canvas for WebGL.
        
       | lovegrenoble wrote:
       | https://gamemaker.io
       | 
       | You will not find better...
        
         | lovegrenoble wrote:
         | and with the ability to create a point and click interface with
         | something specific happening on each click
         | 
         | Also, as you need: GameMaker Language (GML) is GameMaker's
         | scripting language. It is an imperative, dynamically typed
         | language commonly likened to JavaScript and C-like languages
        
       | NortySpock wrote:
       | It's not a drag and drop environment, but it is JavaScript:
       | https://p5js.org/
       | 
       | Basic 60 frames a second canvas and the rest is JavaScript.
       | 
       | Pair that with the excellent Coding Train series
       | https://youtube.com/@thecodingtrain
       | 
       | To get around the "serve a webpage locally" problem, you could
       | either have Python or Node serve a webpage, or I once rigged up a
       | samba share and a small web server on a home server and turned a
       | kid loose on it ... It didn't take, I should have spent more time
       | helping them daily on it.
       | 
       | But that's an idea.
        
         | miningape wrote:
         | Cannot recommend this enough!
        
         | creatonez wrote:
         | You might also want to pair it with The Nature of Code:
         | https://natureofcode.com/
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | I'll second p5.js and the coding train video series. They are
         | quite good, fun and more advanced than than the videos make
         | them out to be.
         | 
         | P5 also has an online dev environment which is good enough. If
         | you create an account you can save stuff online (make sure to
         | backup, another good lesson).
         | 
         | https://editor.p5js.org/
         | 
         | New ones are infrequent but there is a fairly complete set on
         | the web.
         | 
         | Ive also started playing with https://phaser.io/. It's more of
         | a game framework in JavaScript with built in libraries for
         | collision. The getting started tutorial is decent/short and
         | gives a good idea of what is going on.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | P5 is definitely what I'd recommend to a lot of people for
         | actually starting to learn to code although I think in coding a
         | game it might fall down the second you want to do collisions as
         | you're going to have to roll all that yourself from scratch.
         | 
         | In 2024 I'd be tempted to say if you want to make games it
         | might even be better to just get started with Unity, Unreal or
         | Godot and YouTube tutorials + AI help might be enough to smooth
         | it out enough.
         | 
         | The absolute basic stuff might be trickier than a system where
         | it's quite easy to draw on a screen in a few lines but the
         | stuff of collisions and beyond are way easier.
        
           | NortySpock wrote:
           | For collisions I can say p5.play has been an excellent plugin
           | for p5 to handle inertial physics and collisions.
           | 
           | I would suggest that the novice game developer might enjoy
           | rolling their own basic collision detection ( object overlay,
           | mouse-over, inertia-ignoring collision resolution, etc), but
           | obviously that is not fun or convenient for everyone.
           | 
           | https://p5play.org/learn/ (AGPL licensed with commercial
           | exceptions available these days, it seems)
        
       | calflegal wrote:
       | Phaser with Claude / LLM to help?
        
       | yarone wrote:
       | Roblox studio. My son is a sound designer for some of the top
       | games there. He's also learning programming in Lua for Roblox
       | platform.
       | 
       | It is a small community of mostly kids aged 15-25 as far as I can
       | tell. It doesn't seem like any professional adult game developers
       | are part of the community (I got an inside view when I took my
       | son to RDC this year).
       | 
       | The top game developers are making millions of dollars per year
       | (they're paid in Robux and converted to USD).
       | 
       | In short, thriving ecosystem with lots of kids having fun doing
       | creative work including creating games, writing code, designing
       | graphics, designing sound effects.
        
         | RIMR wrote:
         | Required reading before throwing your child into the machine
         | that is Roblox:
         | https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/09/the-trouble-wi...
        
           | navane wrote:
           | tldr; teenagers on the internet. Nothing here described at
           | Roblox doesn't happen to teenagers on the internet as a
           | whole; Discord, IM. At least the people learned a valuable
           | skill in Roblox.
        
             | mplewis wrote:
             | When I was on AIM, I was never pressured into joining an
             | asset sweatshop by older kids online. Stay far away from
             | Roblox.
        
         | hyperbolablabla wrote:
         | Concur with other comments here when I say: do not throw your
         | child into this incredibly exploitative community
        
           | grahamj wrote:
           | I've read about these concerns but my kid is 11 and on there
           | all the time, often with me over her shoulder, and I've never
           | seen any sign of it.
           | 
           | It's a huge platform for kids so I'm sure there are some
           | creeps but there are plenty of controls in place to deal with
           | that and even so, again, I've never seen it.
        
             | maxweylandt wrote:
             | There's also the financial exploitation.
             | https://youtu.be/_gXlauRB1EQ?si=C4prkNgGgK0bR_MX
        
             | _joel wrote:
             | I have similar experience to yours. I would prefer them not
             | to be on it but it has network effect, as their friends are
             | all on it too.
        
             | noblox wrote:
             | The creeps are only part of the problem. The platform
             | itself is deeply exploitative and harmful. It's full of
             | "you can make games and get rich" messaging that's just a
             | lie. To say nothing of even if you are successful, they
             | will take a staggering cut, and may not pay at all.
             | 
             | Keep your kids as far from Roblox as you can.
        
         | n1b0m wrote:
         | Pretty disturbing reading about predatory behaviour on Roblox:
         | 
         | https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2024-roblox-pedophile-pro...
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | Good god that article shows how immoral roblox's owner is.
           | They also seem to be very ignorant about online abuse,
           | probably intentionally.
        
       | schazers wrote:
       | Download Castle for mobile: https://castle.xyz/
        
       | Joel_Mckay wrote:
       | Don't underestimate kids... just give them proper tools, and they
       | will surprise you.
       | 
       | JavaScript is a very forgiving language to learn:
       | 
       | https://playground.babylonjs.com/
       | 
       | Game level designers are also a fun high-abstraction, and won't
       | overwhelm the impatient.
       | 
       | https://levelsharesquare.com/games/supermarioconstruct
       | 
       | Have fun =3
        
         | HKH2 wrote:
         | JavaScript has me scratching my head when I can't see why
         | something won't work and I don't get errors in the console.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I have good memories of using Alice3D [1] the 3D part is
       | appealing.
       | 
       | 11 is young but I don't know how difficult could be to use Unity
       | with some help, I know people without any development background
       | who created games there in their spare time.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.alice.org/
        
       | samier-trellis wrote:
       | Scratch
        
       | MarcScott wrote:
       | You should definitely take a look at Struckd Studio which is now
       | part of Unity Play - https://play.unity.com/en
       | 
       | It's still a little buggy in places, but nothing that can't be
       | overcome.
       | 
       | You can drag and drop in 3D assets and many of them come with
       | built in and easily changeable behaviors. Then there is a node
       | based programming language that you can use to make alterations.
       | 
       | It's web based, but also has iOS and Android apps available for
       | editing and playing the games.
       | 
       | edit - I'm an educator working in the CS ecosystem, and am
       | playing with Struckd with the intention of making a suite of
       | learning resources.
        
       | Svenskunganka wrote:
       | I started with the World Editor from Warcraft 3 around that age,
       | creating custom maps, gamemodes and spells/abilities. It has
       | scripting capabilities that is somewhere between GUI code and
       | actual code. There's also a lovely community around the World
       | Editor over on https://hiveworkshop.com. Picking the latest
       | custom spell updated as a showcase, if you expand the "Spoiler:
       | Triggers" you can see how the "code" looks like:
       | https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/frost-field-v1-0-1.3556...
       | 
       | There are a lot of custom maps in that game that has later become
       | their own standalone games, the most well-known is probably Dota
       | 2 that is the successor to the DotA custom map in Warcraft 3. I
       | hear the Warcraft 3: Reforged update brough Lua support, but the
       | "old" way of using the GUI or JASS is still supported so there is
       | a natural learning path from the simpler GUI code to more
       | advanced JASS or Lua code.
        
         | mxyzptlk wrote:
         | I came here to recommend Warcraft 3 also. It's how my son
         | started on the path to coding. Being able to add to an existing
         | platform gave his early efforts some polish that encouraged him
         | to continue.
        
         | shultays wrote:
         | Agreed, hook your kid to wc3 and its custom maps first and
         | scripting new maps will come neutrally. At least it happened to
         | me back when I was a kid
        
       | daitangio wrote:
       | Try TIC80 https://github.com/nesbox/TIC-80
       | 
       | Very mice, multi programming language support
        
         | shortrounddev2 wrote:
         | I bought an external keyboard for my phone so that when I'm
         | outside somewhere and bored out of my mind I can code on
         | something in TIC-80
        
         | petee wrote:
         | TIC80 is great, and I like that it drops some of the arbitrary
         | restrictions that Pico has. And there are some pretty
         | impressive demos including 3d rendering.
         | 
         | Also super easy to deploy your game with builtin emscripten
         | generation
        
       | atilimcetin wrote:
       | There are lots of good suggestions here. My first preference
       | would be pico-8 (already mentioned).
       | 
       | But also I can also suggest another interesting option: GB Studio
       | - https://www.gbstudio.dev It's a quick and easy to use drag and
       | drop retro game creator for game boy. It also supports visual
       | scripting.
        
       | nmrtn wrote:
       | Have you tried iterating your code and gameplay with
       | https:://cursor.com like in this video :
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5uvDZ8srHA ? Total blast.
        
         | Peacefulz wrote:
         | This video blew me away. I take back all of my reservations
         | involving pairing AI with learning and development. I hope that
         | little girl sticks to creating stuff!
        
       | nodja wrote:
       | Gamemaker if you want no code. It's free if you're not planning
       | to release games commercially. You can add code later if you want
       | custom behaviors that gamemaker doesn't include out of the box.
       | 2D only.
       | 
       | Godot if you want coding. Coding is required but it uses gdscript
       | which is a python inspired language. The editor is also batteries
       | included, so godot.exe will include everything you need to make a
       | game (aside from assets, but even there some plugins can help).
       | 2D and 3D, but 3D is not "AAA" tier.
       | 
       | I honestly recommend you go for godot. There are tons of
       | tutorials out there to create all kinds of games, specially if
       | it's something basic. It's what I wish existed when I was 11 and
       | had tons of time to mess around.
       | 
       | I'd say look up a quickstart tutorial for both and check if your
       | kid likes any of them.
       | 
       | I see lots of recommendations for niche/toy engines. I don't
       | recommend those because it'll be hard to look up tutorials for
       | them. Having guidance in essential. I also don't recommend your
       | kid get to roblox, sure he might be able to make some money or
       | get lots of attention, but having external motivators can be very
       | detrimental.
        
         | lvturner wrote:
         | GameMaker is generally excellent and decades worth of material,
         | it's original design was to teach students (disclaimer, used to
         | work for YoYoGames a long time ago) not sure where it sits
         | these days, but suspect it's only gotten easier to work with.
         | 
         | I _just_ started tinkering with Godot, seems very, very good
         | and the licensing means you won 't suddenly have the rug pulled
         | out from under you.
         | 
         | I'm torn though, the recommendation for things like Roblox seem
         | valid, but indeed it seems like the kind of thing where you
         | will hit a glass ceiling. On the flip side getting started on
         | something more generic may be tedious and cause an 11 year old
         | to lose interest quickly.
         | 
         | I think it comes down to the motivations and nature of the
         | individual - do they wanna learn the skill, or do they want to
         | create something quick that they can show off to their friends?
         | (and maybe go further if they really enjoy it)
        
           | joshuanapoli wrote:
           | I'll give a +1 to Godot; my son and I had fun going through
           | the 2-D game tutorial and customizing the game. We added some
           | physics, and it was quickly hilarious.
           | 
           | Simpler game systems weren't flexible enough to capture his
           | imagination. We also tried to get started with Unity, but we
           | couldn't get past the first steps.
        
         | fr2null wrote:
         | I enjoyed gamemaker a lot. Especially the ease of adding small
         | snippets of code when you wanted to do something slightly more
         | advanced than the normal editor allowed.
        
       | cweagans wrote:
       | Humble Bundle has a Godot bundle is available for the next day or
       | so. That might be a good one to look at if you're ok with leaning
       | into code a bit (gdscript is very very similar to python).
       | https://www.humblebundle.com/software/learn-godot-43-complet...
       | 
       | Also check out the RPG Maker bundle. That's pretty point-and-
       | click. You can have something basic up and running in a couple
       | minutes (literally just paint your tiles onto a map and click Go
       | and you'll have a little jrpg). If you use the newest version,
       | you can script it in Javascript. One major selling point here is
       | that their "runtime package" (RTP) comes with a TON of game
       | assets to use, so you don't have to track down/make art if you
       | don't want to (you _can_ , but I often get blocked on art when
       | I'm playing with game dev).
       | https://www.humblebundle.com/software/gotcha-gotcha-presents...
       | 
       | GBStudio is another good (free) one to look at. It's point and
       | click for the most part and if you get a flash cart, you can play
       | your game on a real Gameboy. Definitely not gonna be the most
       | flashy, but it's a good exercise in making something fun with
       | limited resources available. https://www.gbstudio.dev
       | 
       | GDevelop is another no-/low-code option: https://gdevelop.io
       | 
       | Defold is another scripting-heavy option (Lua):
       | https://defold.com
        
       | davidsojevic wrote:
       | Modd.io [0] is a great platform that's relatively easy to get
       | into and start making games. I suspect it would be a fairly good
       | entry point for kids and it has the added benefit that your child
       | can share the games they're making with their friends to play
       | together live.
       | 
       | They have fairly good documentation [1] and if videos are more
       | your child's thing, the founder/developer is incredibly active on
       | YouTube and posts videos [2] and live streams fairly regularly.
       | 
       | They also have templates for a good number of different game
       | types/modes that you can start off with, eg. platformer, tower
       | defense, car racing, MMORPG, etc.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.modd.io/
       | 
       | [1] https://learn.modd.io/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.youtube.com/@baldgamedev/videos
        
       | asicsp wrote:
       | https://microstudio.dev/ - supports JavaScript and Python
        
       | max_ wrote:
       | Raylib is really good
        
       | steve_adams_86 wrote:
       | I don't think it has been mentioned here, but dot big bang is
       | pretty cool and suitable for young game dev-curious kids.
       | 
       | It has a fairly easy learning experience if you want to do very
       | basic things, but opens up into an impressively capable editor if
       | you want it to.
       | 
       | I worked on it for a year and the team behind it is awesome.
       | Great people who are passionate about what they're doing, care a
       | lot about the kids using the platform (making it kid-friendly
       | matters a huge amount), and put a lot of effort into making it
       | genuinely fun first (rather than chasing trends for example).
       | 
       | Not sure how it compares to other options but it's worth checking
       | it out. I often wish I still worked on it.
        
       | emmanueloga_ wrote:
       | Love2d.
        
         | widdershins wrote:
         | Agreed. OP said they don't know Lua, but if you know Javascript
         | it can be picked up in a day or two. And it's really a lovely
         | experience.
        
       | simpaticoder wrote:
       | Not sure if this meets your specifications, since it's code
       | first, but Processing (in it's JavaScript incarnation, p5.js[1])
       | might be worth looking at.
       | 
       | In terms of games that include content creation tools within
       | them, I've been impressed with Fortnite and Rocket League. Using
       | the in-game editor may be a good gateway to building mods
       | offline.
       | 
       | 1 - Examples https://p5js.org/examples/ and on online code editor
       | https://editor.p5js.org/.
        
       | huydotnet wrote:
       | My kiddo want to make game on Nintendo Switch, which is almost
       | impossible at this time, but I recently found Fuze 4
       | (https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/fuze4-nintendo-sw...)
       | that allows him to do exactly that. Quite happy with Fuze's
       | workflow. We can even connect an external keyboard so he can type
       | on it.
        
         | greeniskool wrote:
         | SmileBASIC is another coding environment on Switch. The DSi and
         | 3DS versions were quite popular, I'm surprised the Switch
         | version didn't catch on as much as they did
        
       | t-writescode wrote:
       | I would encourage a bunch of different games where making a game
       | is a game mechanic, so this includes:                 * Little
       | Big Planet       * RPG Maker (from the PS1 days ... I don't know
       | what the new ones are like)       * Super Mario Maker       *
       | Roblox (other comments are saying this is bad? I don't know much,
       | but it was my first thought)       * Dreams for the PS4
       | 
       | The person that made Lethal Company was originally a Roblox dev,
       | so I know that route can work; and LBP and SMM are both _great_
       | ways for learning how to create engaging and difficult levels.
       | Some of them even have state management.
       | 
       | I played RPG Maker a million years ago and liked it, so I imagine
       | that game or its family is still a nice experience.
       | 
       | I haven't played Dreams, but I've heard it's a strong,
       | interactive environment?
        
         | greeniskool wrote:
         | All versions of RPG Maker frequently go on sale on Steam, the
         | older ones you can get for pennies. XP, VX and VX Ace support
         | Ruby as a scripting language, meanwhile MV and MZ supports web
         | export and JS scripting. Can't recommend these programs enough.
        
         | a-saleh wrote:
         | I think Roblox can be bad in a "badly moderated online space"
         | and "potentially abusive monetization/exploitative sharing
         | structure" - the game itself feels good?
        
           | lazycog512 wrote:
           | this.
           | 
           | the tradeoff is with something like godot you only have
           | examples/tutorials and hardly ever something "finished" or
           | "very fun" or "thing people are playing".
           | 
           | something like roblox or another modding-focused game allows
           | you to see what other people did as inspiration or to show
           | what other people are actually interested in, as opposed to
           | just making things for yourself.
        
       | eb0la wrote:
       | That's funny, I taught a bit if Basic to my son coding rock,
       | paper, scissor, too.
        
       | hiimshort wrote:
       | A friend of mine works on DotBigBang which is pretty
       | approachable. May be worth giving it a try!
       | 
       | https://dotbigbang.com/
        
       | hot_gril wrote:
       | Minecraft can do stuff with command blocks
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Construct 3 is awesome.
        
       | rsavage wrote:
       | You can try https://make.gamefroot.com/ it's specifically
       | designed for kids aged 6 to 14.
       | 
       | It's used by a bunch of primary schools to teach kids programming
       | via games.
       | 
       | It's drag and drop interface where I believe you can drop into
       | JavaScript as well.
       | 
       | Haven't used it myself but met the founders at a game conference.
        
       | zelphirkalt wrote:
       | When I was only slightly older, I was part of an RPG maker
       | community. Skills I acquired there regarding image
       | editing/manipulation, writing reviews, looking out for things
       | that seem unnaturally regular, social communication, and whatnot
       | still serve me today. It was a very creative place to be. There
       | was a screenshot thread in the forum and almost every day I would
       | check it out for new posts, reading people's reviews and write
       | some myself. I remember spending hours and hours making a faceset
       | too. Trying to fit those emotions onto the 48x48 pixels.
       | 
       | I would recommend such a community, but I am only aware of one
       | bigger community like that surviving (multimediaxis forum[1],
       | which could be great) and my old community does no longer exist,
       | which saddens me to this day.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.multimediaxis.de/forum.php
        
       | masfoobar wrote:
       | Back in my day (was teenager in mid-to-late 90s) I had to figure
       | out how games worked. Thankfully, we had games like Quake which
       | can be modded and had various level editors. Worldcraft, which is
       | now called Hammer, was awesome.
       | 
       | It is this journey that helped me become a programmer today.
       | While not a games programmer, I do make games in my spare time.
       | 
       | Now -- sure.. why mention this? I believe I understand a 11 year-
       | olds mindset that wants to do more than play games - but
       | understand how they work. I also have children of my own and
       | waiting for them to hint they want to learn. Of course the 90s
       | way is a distant memory. There is more access to things in the
       | gaming world... but more options can also be a little
       | intimidating as well.
       | 
       | 11 can still be "young" depending on their skill level with
       | computers. For now, you could start off with the basics. For
       | world building/construction, we do have Minecraft (which my 6
       | year old son plays). We also have things like Roblox (which my 12
       | year old daughter plays)
       | 
       | We also have Scratch, a "Visual Programming Language" - my
       | daughter has been using this at school and some afternoon/evening
       | clubs at the library.
       | 
       | For me personally, I think 13 (years old) is going to be 'that
       | age' when they start going into more detail with making games.
       | Maybe your child is ready sooner. Only you know.
       | 
       | If they are ready to progress further than the above, I would
       | recommend something like Godot, Unity or Unreal. Whichever I pick
       | is a decision I make at that time... but if I had to choose now,
       | I might try Godot first and go from there.
       | 
       | Yes.. I might make decisions for the child to start with. I would
       | sit with my child and learn together. Once they start doing
       | things on their own I would take a step back and let them play.
       | They will soon ask for help if they want it.
       | 
       | For example, when I was playing with Worldcraft, I was trying to
       | figure out how to move an object around but I just didn't
       | understand how I used the "target" and "targetname" fields. I
       | asked for my Step-Dad to help and he figured it out for me. Once
       | I understood it, and got an object moving in the game, I was able
       | to carry on from there. He gave me space to learn.
       | 
       | The great thing about Unity, Unreal or Godot - is these are used
       | for REAL GAMES... so your child can stay on these and, perhaps,
       | have a career using them. They can figure out if they want to be
       | an artist, level designer, 3d modeler, or programmer, etc. Their
       | interest and decision can also point them to Blender,
       | GIMP/Photoshop, or to write their own games engine (or simply a
       | game) using a programming language.
       | 
       | For me -- I went with the DIY approach as a programmer, writing
       | games in C (but moving to Odin) and I use OpenGL, SDL2, etc. Once
       | you get a window open you can start by making Pong, or a Card
       | Game, etc. So, if any of my children want to learn... learning
       | Godot is just as much an experience for me as well -- but it is
       | also to give them space to learn their way and, like my Step-Dad
       | did for me, to help me when I needed it.
       | 
       | "I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk
       | through it" - Morpheus
       | 
       | --- All software I mentioned above listed here. I hope this
       | helps. My advice is to go with the flow and make your own
       | learning fun.
       | 
       | - Quake C / Modding / Worldcraft. -- For Quake (old school.
       | Likely avoid for younger gen)
       | 
       | - Hammer Editor for Source/Source 2 -- More modern
       | 
       | - Scratch -- popular visual programming language for kids.. even
       | young!
       | 
       | - Minecraft, Roblox -- Popular world building, fun games
       | 
       | - Photoshop, Gimp -- Popular Paint or Photo editing
       | 
       | - Blender -- Popular 3D modelling (architecture, 3d animation,
       | etc)
       | 
       | - Unity, Unreal, Godot -- popular game engines / editing tools
       | 
       | - Programming language C, Odin... libraries like SDL (making
       | games manually)
        
       | davea37 wrote:
       | https://downpour.games
        
       | kanwisher wrote:
       | Roblox Creator studio, its amazing, tons of tutorials and its
       | super easy to publish something
        
         | ElCapitanMarkla wrote:
         | Yeah it actually is. My 7 and 4 year old have been playing some
         | crappy games on Roblox which led us to spending some time in
         | the Creator Studio. I was surprised how good it was given given
         | the vast amounts of absolute crap in Roblox, although I guess
         | that is why there is vast amounts of crap :D
        
       | nurettin wrote:
       | https://www.renpy.org/
       | 
       | This does pretty much what you have described. It supports
       | scenes, image maps for point and click, dialogues and is low
       | code.
        
       | archargelod wrote:
       | Try Enu
       | 
       | https://getenu.com/
       | 
       | Enu is a 3d live coding playground where you can control objects
       | with code. Similar to LOGO but in 3d. It uses Nim - language very
       | similar to Python and easy to pick up.
       | 
       | Duscussed previously on HN:
       | 
       | 17 comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36966116
       | 
       | 6 comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38520901
       | 
       | Nim forum post with announcement of Enu 0.2 and some useful
       | links: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10700
        
       | doomlaser wrote:
       | My suggestion, as a game developer for nearly 30 years: pico-8.
       | If you have any questions. Ping me on Twitter. It's the weekend
       | after all ;)
        
       | Curzel wrote:
       | 100% GameMaker https://gamemaker.io/en
        
         | maxdamantus wrote:
         | I can't speak for the current version of GameMaker, but the
         | versions from around 2002 ("by Mark Overmars", when I was 9 or
         | 10) were definitely a significant part of my development as a
         | programmer, so I'm happy to see this recommended.
        
       | Benjamin_Dobell wrote:
       | This is a surprisingly crowded space. Aside from the big names
       | like Scratch, Blockly, Roblox and (to an extent) Minecraft
       | Education. There are heaps of projects out there created by
       | educators who wanted to improve their own course. One particular
       | example I was quite impressed with was Blockly -> Unity:
       | 
       | https://app.code-it-studio.de/course/step/4/44
       | 
       | I've worked in this space a lot: professional game development,
       | led EdTech engineering departments, and worked as CTO of a
       | company building a UGC interactive fiction platform. I've a six
       | year old daughter who is really interested in creating -- art,
       | media, games, whatever. My personal opinion is that a lot of
       | these platforms make a critical mistake. They all neglect that
       | game design is hard!
       | 
       | Look at all the games that flop on Steam each year. These are
       | made by professionals. It's disheartening for kids when the thing
       | they've worked hard on simply isn't fun -- particularly when they
       | share it with friends and are met with, at best, a shrug.
       | 
       | Kids are going to be different, so it's still worth trying all
       | the stuff that's already out there. However, I'm currently
       | working on something in this space that's a bit different.
       | Basically, removing the complexity of game design from the
       | equation, but still allowing creativity, the ability to program
       | functionality, build new mechanics and the ability for kids to
       | share their work.
       | 
       | Of course, it's an interesting one, because kids most certainly
       | say they "want to build games". It's just that kids, young kids
       | in particular, don't understand what is actually involved in
       | building the games that they love to play. The goal of what I'm
       | building is very much to guide kids to graduate beyond the
       | platform and ideally set kids up to make games from scratch --
       | it's just not a good place to start.
        
         | mc3301 wrote:
         | Whatever you are currently working on sounds so interesting!
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | > It's disheartening for kids when the thing they've worked
         | hard on simply isn't fun -- particularly when they share it
         | with friends and are met with, at best, a shrug.
         | 
         | One of the best books I've read on this was "Board Game Design
         | Advice: From the Best in the World" by Gabe Barrett of
         | https://boardgamedesignlab.com/ (which is a great designer
         | resource on its own). There's an audio version as well. What's
         | good about the book is it's advice from pro (some very
         | successful) game designers on how they handle failure and ideas
         | that don't work. Until that point, I felt alone in my failures
         | and discouragement. It really helped to hear it's a struggle
         | for everyone.
        
         | eterpstra wrote:
         | > > It's disheartening for kids when the thing they've worked
         | hard on simply isn't fun -- particularly when they share it
         | with friends and are met with, at best, a shrug.
         | 
         | An easy way around this is to have kids include their friends
         | as characters. Even if it's just a name and reasonable
         | facsimile. And add some silly humor.
         | 
         | Yet another run and jump platformer game with a made-up
         | character is going to be boring. A platformer where Billy from
         | down the street farts jelly beans every time he jumps will
         | probably get a few playthoughs and shares.
        
         | empressplay wrote:
         | That's why ideally game making is a collaborative activity --
         | if they make something with at least one other person, there's
         | at least some communal appreciation for the effort.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | >Look at all the games that flop on Steam each year. These are
         | made by professionals. It's disheartening for kids when the
         | thing they've worked hard on simply isn't fun -- particularly
         | when they share it with friends and are met with, at best, a
         | shrug.
         | 
         | Why should this be a concern? Should people not paint for fun
         | if their pictures aren't museum-worthy? Should they not play
         | basketball just because they aren't NBA material? The point of
         | doing something yourself is to do it, not to compete with
         | professionals.
        
           | wadadadad wrote:
           | If the child is creating games because the act of creating
           | games is fun, it's fine- great even! Same thing for painting,
           | or playing basketball, etc.
           | 
           | The point I think GP was trying to make is, if the child is
           | creating games because they want to share the games and they
           | think other people will enjoy the games they created- that's
           | where the problem is. GP is saying that kids can get
           | disheartened because their expectation was others will enjoy
           | their game, when potentially (very likely), others won't
           | enjoy their game, because game design is hard. Adults may be
           | more able to handle this emotionally and 'push through it',
           | but children could potentially take this poorly and not want
           | to continue game development because of the negative
           | reactions of others.
           | 
           | We should absolutely continue to encourage game design (or
           | really anything a child is interested in); I would say
           | generally we should be aware of this potential concern for
           | anyone developing games.
        
           | softwarebeware wrote:
           | of course it's a concern because kids don't know that there's
           | going to be a big gap between what they create and what they
           | envision so it's disheartening for them
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | Do you have a Nintendo Switch?
       | 
       | I bought:
       | 
       | https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/game-builder-gara...
       | 
       | and gave it to a co-worker's kid who enjoyed it quite a bit and
       | said:
       | 
       | >This is the greatest game ever!
        
         | archargelod wrote:
         | I could also recommend Fuze4 and SmileBASIC for Nintendo
         | Switch.
         | 
         | They're a lot more advanced, essentially each has it's own
         | scripting language + code editor + a lot of quality assets.
         | 
         | I know the reputation of Basic, but SmileBASIC is using more
         | modern iteration of the language, it's not your BASIC from
         | commodore or dos. I also find their documentation and overall
         | number of available functions exceptional.
         | 
         | Fuze4 has a nice community, they also have a youtube channel
         | with tutorials and competitions.
         | 
         | They all have a special place in my heart, because these 3 apps
         | is how I started my programming hobby, before moving to Lua
         | and, recently, to Nim.
        
       | AlexITC wrote:
       | I'd encourage you to give playcodeai.com a try, I built this for
       | my kid on a similar's age.
       | 
       | I wrote quite a lot about my motivations a couple of days ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41619733
       | 
       | I took the freedom to email you an api key to give it a try.
       | 
       | Good luck.
        
       | jvvw wrote:
       | I've done lot of volunteering programming with children and also
       | have an 11 year old. Three obvious options: Unity, Scratch and
       | Python with PyGame.
       | 
       | Unity sounds like the best fit to me - some code but a lot of
       | interface. Code Club has a series of Unity projects which form a
       | good getting started series:
       | https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/collections/unity As a Python
       | programmer myself I found it fine helping my other son with
       | those.
       | 
       | My 11 year old makes lots of stuff on Scratch by himself and has
       | lots of fun. Scratch has pretty much become the default coding
       | platforms for that under-12 age group. There are lots of
       | resources and it's very easy to get making games, but it's
       | limited in various ways and I have reservations about how great
       | an introduction it is to programming beyond the real basics like
       | variables and loops. If your child was seven or eight I would
       | recommend Scratch, but feel like an 11 year old would probably be
       | better off starting with something else.
       | 
       | Python is another option because you can help there and PyGame is
       | the obvious library to use. It's quite a bit of work for somebody
       | new to Python to make anything that feels like a game, although
       | not impossible (I've been making a flag guessing game with my 11
       | year old in Python but using Tkinter instead) so more delayed
       | gratification is definitely needed. You'd probably have to help a
       | lot and there are a lot of concepts to learn - just becoming
       | confident in how things like lists, dictionaries and objects work
       | takes some time at that age. There are some books that lead you
       | through making games with Python and PyGame though - Mission
       | Python and Python Hunting spring to mind, with the caveat that I
       | haven't worked through all of either of them. I think most 11
       | year olds would struggle to work through those books by
       | themselves though, but if you skim through them and use them as a
       | road map for making a game together, then they could be worth a
       | go.
        
       | andrewchilds wrote:
       | My 9 y.o. has gotten a lot out of two platform game makers:
       | Bloxels (https://www.bloxels.com), and the Jerry Lawson Google
       | Doodle (https://doodles.google/doodle/gerald-jerry-lawsons-82nd-
       | birt...). They're both limited but a nice introduction to the
       | creative elements of game design.
        
       | xlaacid wrote:
       | The fundamental mistake most people make with introducing kids to
       | game making is making them code first. This, and other companies,
       | have a good staring point of using hands on things to understand
       | the fundamentals of game design and then go to code.
       | https://www.buildgamebox.com/
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I don't know how a modern kid would feel about the TUI, but I
       | made a TON of games in QBasic as a kid.
       | 
       | QB64 is a pretty good modern version thereof.
        
         | HKH2 wrote:
         | I wish I had had SDL2 as a kid.
        
       | mentos wrote:
       | Modding/coding for my favorite game (Ultima Online) is what got
       | me into C# at 13 (for the RunUO emulator).
       | 
       | If any of their favorite games let you mod or script maybe check
       | that out.
       | 
       | Nothing cooler than connecting the dots that I could affect how
       | the game I loved behaved.
        
       | trod123 wrote:
       | Igor, This is a subject area that seems like it would be a good
       | starter learning project and doable but really its not.
       | 
       | There are many problems that just are not suited to a young
       | person at that age level of comprehension. Gaming graphics for
       | example often requires understanding quaternion math, computer
       | science, and hardware at a very low level (realtime processing
       | where ms framerate processing counts).
       | 
       | Game design often also is multidisciplinary and requires
       | knowledge of psychology, storytelling, music, and art.
       | 
       | Kids simply don't have the life experience, to put something
       | together for this and have it turn out in a satisfying completed
       | project.
       | 
       | Additionally, even when you are an expert, the experts don't play
       | their own games most times. The vast majority of the fun and
       | allure comes from the discovery of not knowing everything about
       | the game and discovering it. This is why writing games for
       | yourself is often doomed to failure.
       | 
       | Additionally, most games today have subtle manipulations and
       | embedded addiction triggers. These aren't things they can just
       | pick up and use. As an example of this, Call of Duty and
       | Battlefield (FPS), have headshot audio triggers that associate
       | through pavlovian conditioning headshots ingame with the dopamine
       | hit sound cha-ching.
       | 
       | The ability to control addiction is in a part of the brain that
       | doesn't usually develop fully until your 20s, and this stuff is
       | in most modern games. There is a framework called the Octalysis
       | Framework, it provides common methods to embed dark patterns in a
       | way people don't perceive. It is based on some earlier work based
       | in thought reform (torture), and later psychology experiments
       | identifying key drivers to enable manipulation. This is extremely
       | subtle stuff similar to what Pixar & Disney do in their movies
       | (i.e. the handsome guy is always the villain, the preacher is
       | always crazy...lot more).
       | 
       | Robert Cialdini wrote a book covering some of this precursor
       | material. The book is called Influence, and it lays out all our
       | natural perceptual blindspots, and how to exploit them. These are
       | blindspots not even grown adults will notice most of the time
       | without training.
       | 
       | I think you will be better served by starting them on something
       | educationally constructive that is more suited for their age. If
       | you are looking for something math related, Cosmic Calculator
       | series has shortcuts that let you do math amazingly fast.
       | Storytelling for writing authors may be good as well, or just
       | focus on getting them to read for pleasure.
       | 
       | Descartes Rules of Method were particularly useful around that
       | age as well as logic and reasoning (which public education will
       | not teach them), since they are only just starting to be able to
       | discern lies from truths, and that is a major developmental
       | milestone.
       | 
       | Other activities might include Piano lessons, or art lessons.
       | 
       | The current gaming landscape is unhealthy, and can't be vetted by
       | an 11-yo and even platforms designed to make this no-code easier,
       | you have to worry about them suggesting and influencing in ways
       | that will diminish them, or mislead, or creating interference and
       | frustration, or something more directly harmful like TikTok and
       | their recommendations to the Blackout Challenge (kids have
       | literally died).
       | 
       | Some who don't have children might think this is overblown but
       | there are no trusted platforms out there that will safeguard kids
       | appropriately.
       | 
       | Google "Roblox kids scandal" and you'll see what I mean; and
       | they've been recommended here in more than a few other comments.
       | 
       | Update: Sometimes I find it really surprising where others
       | priorities are here on HN. You'd think protecting children would
       | be paramount, but voting paints a very different picture, -3 for
       | mentioning tiktok or the roblox scandal...
        
         | ripper1138 wrote:
         | If you think Roblox is an unsafe platform, you should see the
         | rest of the internet.
        
         | skeaker wrote:
         | I suspect the voting is more based on the fact that you're
         | essentially saying "your child should give up, this field is
         | bad and there are no good spaces for kids" when that's both
         | terrible advice and not at all true. Yes, there are
         | exploitative spaces, but there are in fact good spaces too. And
         | your whole thing about how "making games is less fun than
         | playing them and playing them is actually a dark pattern that
         | is evil" is extremely cynical and doesn't hold well if you know
         | about more games than mobile ones or CoD.
         | 
         | If the post was about a kid wanting to write novels and you had
         | said "writing is not as fun as reading, and you shouldn't read
         | anyways because most books are scammy self-help books and
         | conspiracy theories that exploit your brain," I think you would
         | be similarly downvoted. Nothing to do with a Roblox scandal in
         | that case either.
        
       | throw0101d wrote:
       | Squeak/Smalltalk, especially an environment like Scratch:
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_(programming_language)
       | 
       | * https://scratch.mit.edu
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeak
        
         | codingbot3000 wrote:
         | +1 to that
         | 
         | Both my kids did try out Scratch, and would create a lot of
         | funny things with it on rainy days. It is well thought through
         | and easy to learn.
        
       | grugagag wrote:
       | Try Pico-8. Lots of source code available on internet archive.
       | Alternatively Tic-80 is also a good platform.
        
         | MaxGripe wrote:
         | Ain't that for 8-yo
        
           | grugagag wrote:
           | How about 11 year old?
        
       | bentt wrote:
       | Been a pro gamedev for 20+ years.
       | 
       | You have a born game designer on your hands. It is important to
       | not assume this means they are super interested in programming.
       | They may be, but game design is its own thing. HN will skew you
       | towards programming first, naturally.
       | 
       | Check these out:
       | 
       | - Adventure Game Studio (https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/)
       | 
       | - Twine (https://twinery.org/)
       | 
       | And these have more visual ways of programming which could let
       | them express their ideas with less friction
       | 
       | - Dreams (Playstation)
       | 
       | - Unity (with Playmaker or Bolt visual scripting)
       | 
       | - Godot
       | 
       | And the other suggestions of Scratch are good, but I find Scratch
       | to feel like a way to learn programming more than expressing game
       | design.
       | 
       | Lastly, explore card and tabletop games with them. It's a whole
       | thing!
        
         | woodrowbarlow wrote:
         | this is great advice. let them focus on designing gameplay
         | right now. once they've designed a core game loop and they're
         | proud of it, maybe they'll want to learn how to implement it in
         | software, or maybe they'll want to make some sort of physical
         | product (game book, card deck, miniatures, etc.), or maybe
         | they'll want to move on and design a whole new game.
         | 
         | tabletop simulator (on steam) is an easy platform for designing
         | tabletop games. it has lots of built-in assets, you can import
         | your assets, it has lots of built-in concepts that are common
         | to games (zones/hands/inventories/meeples/etc). rules-
         | enforcement is mostly done by the players (multiplayer is
         | supported) just like when playing games in real life, so it's
         | great for prototyping and playtesting without coding up formal
         | logic.
        
           | bentt wrote:
           | oh yeah, tabletop simulator is a great idea. You want to find
           | ways to let them manipulate existing assets easily and that's
           | perfect.
        
         | clbrook wrote:
         | Another option for tabletop games is printing with The Game
         | Crafter: https://www.thegamecrafter.com/
        
         | snarf21 wrote:
         | I agree with this other advice. Do "tabletop" first. It doesn't
         | have to be fancy, even just notecards or paper. You can iterate
         | _very quickly_ on the core game loop and  "finding the fun". If
         | you do want something fancier than just paper and words, a
         | great option is printing on full page sticker paper and then
         | attach that to chipboard (you can get it cheap online) and then
         | just cut it out. You have a game that feels a lot more real
         | than just notecards. There are lots of online resources for
         | fast prototyping of card and board games. There are lots of
         | Discords around game design and a lot of game conventions have
         | a "prototype" area where designers showcase their games to get
         | feedback and improve them. There are podcasts like Ludology and
         | Building the Game to help give more theory of game design
         | dicussions. (If you are US based, look up Unpub, Protospiel,
         | etc...)
         | 
         | (I design card and board games as a hobby, the industry is very
         | friendly and loves to mentor!)
        
         | ido wrote:
         | GameMaker is also a good option, it even has a scratch-like
         | visual programming language (but also a more conventional text
         | based language).
        
           | Difwif wrote:
           | Game Maker is what started it all for me over 20 years ago.
           | Once I picked up the scripting language Python and Lua
           | quickly followed. I think I owe my entire career in software
           | to this program.
        
         | Phiwise_ wrote:
         | Plus, if you are looking to teach a child interested in
         | programming specifically, you might consider Snap/Build Your
         | Own Blocks [0], an extension of Scratch made partially by an
         | instructor of SICP at Berkeley to support things like anonymous
         | functions, prototypes, and metaprogramming. It seems robust
         | enough a child given it now could get right up to undergraduate
         | introductory CS as the genuine article! I would have been
         | amazed if any of the systems to enable kids to make games of my
         | childhood (which I did get a pretty unrepresentatively bad
         | batch of besides) had that kind of potential to them. Imagine a
         | high schooler today reading, say, a blog post about their
         | favorite game's scripting system for its quest designers and
         | implementing its high level beat for beat themselves. Sure
         | it'll run disappointingly slow but the education potential is
         | immense.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap!_(programming_language)
        
         | danielvaughn wrote:
         | Seconding the Dreams recommendation. It's _incredible_.
        
           | amjoshuamichael wrote:
           | I don't think Dreams gets enough credit because it came out
           | at the end of the PlayStation 4's life and it didn't get a
           | lot of marketing, but it absolutely is fantastic. I'd say
           | it's the best implementation of visual scripting I've ever
           | seen, and that's using a traditional game controller (or two
           | PSMove controllers) instead of a mouse/keyboard. That's not
           | even including the modeling tools or music tools.
           | 
           | As someone who makes games, I often hear people ask me "how
           | do I get started?" And my first answer is always "learn C."
           | When they look at me funny, I say, "Try Dreams on
           | Playstation."
        
             | danielvaughn wrote:
             | Apparently they were working on a PC port but it was
             | abandoned after declining sales. I really really hope
             | someone buys the IP and finishes the port, because it would
             | be a massive success.
        
         | nailuj wrote:
         | One more suggestion are games that have powerful editors or
         | modding tools. Starcraft, Age of Empires, Skyrim, Minecraft
        
           | bentt wrote:
           | Yes, modding is a great suggestion. So many talented working
           | game developers started with mods.
        
         | ramses0 wrote:
         | Inkle as well, it's got an easy online editor and lets you do
         | basically choose your own adventures, kindof like a linear
         | zork/infocom story engine (stories can branch, but usually move
         | forward).
         | 
         | Old school was ZZT
         | (https://museumofzzt.com/file/browse/detail/featured-
         | world/?s...) and
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_Construction_Set
         | 
         | ...ZZT especially is interestingly retro with the pixel-art
         | style, and IIRC, quite a decent programming / dialogue
         | capabilities.
        
         | doctorpangloss wrote:
         | Toddlers make up fun games all the time. Isn't programming the
         | point? Where's Roblox? Is there a single Twine game that an 11
         | year old has played?
        
           | bentt wrote:
           | The tools in Roblox are not that simple and are pretty geared
           | towards technical people. They're cool! But in this case I
           | think there are better ways to start.
        
       | woodrowbarlow wrote:
       | you mention your child is making games with powerpoint. a lot of
       | suggestions are for platforms that let your child dip their toes
       | in coding. i'd like to go another direction: consider "tabletop
       | simulator", a virtual board/card game platform.
       | 
       | in TTS, you can import assets easily (as cards or tokens or
       | boards) and move them around in game with no effort. this is
       | enough to play the game, but TTS won't enforce any rules. adding
       | rules enforcement will require coding.
       | 
       | TTS will basically be powerpoint on steroids for your young game
       | designer, allowing quick iteration and more interactive
       | expression options without getting bogged down in encoding the
       | logic of it all. it's less of an engineering gateway and more of
       | a game design gateway.
        
       | tiborsaas wrote:
       | I suggest Unreal Engine, 11 years is old enough to follow
       | tutorials on YouTube. I think I was at around this age when I
       | played with Game Maker on Commodore 64.
       | 
       | There's not much coding required in UE, but there's some learning
       | curve that's for sure. Having an instant feedback however is
       | really good for learning.
       | 
       | I would also suggest https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/ which is a good
       | for 2D RPG games, there are quite a few variants of they they
       | released.
        
         | Arelius wrote:
         | There is something really powerful about using the same tools
         | professional developers are using, as an 11 year old.
         | 
         | FWIW, I started modding UE1 games at about 12. Starting from
         | something was nice, but it was otherwise accessible enough. And
         | BP just makes it more so.
        
         | pid-1 wrote:
         | RPG Maker brings me so many good memories... highly recommend!
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | I've used Unreal Engine professionally for about 7 years and I
         | would NOT recommend it to an 11-year-old, for much the same
         | reason you don't first teach people to fly in an Airbus A380.
         | 
         | I WOULD, however, recommend _Unreal Engine for Fortnite_
         | (UEFN), which is stripped down and focused while still being
         | powerful.
        
       | stuporglue wrote:
       | My daughter is 11 and has been making simple games on Scratch.
       | 
       | There's a lot of assets (images, characters, backgrounds) already
       | in the system. The sending signals and receiving signals wasn't
       | intuitive for her at first, but now she's getting it pretty well.
       | 
       | I don't think she could/would have figured it out on her own yet.
       | Her older sister is 14 and spent a lot of time learning Scratch
       | last year, so she was able to help her over the hurdles (like
       | signaling). The 14 year old was able to learn it on her own,
       | though I did teach her some concepts like loops and variables at
       | the very start.
        
       | joelanman wrote:
       | on a slightly different tack - games that are programming-like:
       | 
       | - Minecraft - Human Resource Machine - The Sequence (Android) -
       | Any complex management game
        
       | lefstathiou wrote:
       | When I was a kid, I loved RPG maker. I'm sure there are legacy
       | versions out there.
        
       | fergie wrote:
       | Lots of good suggestions here, but I feel that on the rare
       | occasions when you see 11-year olds actually making games, they
       | are generally in Minecraft or Roblox.
        
       | jot wrote:
       | DragonRuby https://dragonruby.org/
       | 
       | I had so much fun with this with my 7 year old. Was super easy to
       | take their art and make games with it. You can start by editing
       | one of the many example games it comes with.
        
       | shortercode wrote:
       | I used to work on the Construct 3 game engine. It's great for
       | doing small games. You can do a lot by just dropping images in
       | and adding "behaviours" like "platformer movement" and "solid".
       | Which is enough to build a simple platform game without any
       | coding.
       | 
       | It scales pretty well from that, allowing you to build logic
       | trees in a scratch like environment or go full code with JS.
       | 
       | Trial version is free, and browser based so no install. Loads of
       | examples and demos in the editor to try as well.
        
         | wormlord wrote:
         | Construct 3 is great. I used to it to teach at a camp. I would
         | recommend this over everything else in this thread. It has a
         | low barrier to entry, with the option to learn JS a bit at a
         | time as the kid's skills grow.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | godot is best: instant feedback, quick to get started with, no
       | glass ceiling, free software to prevent unity-style rugpulls.
       | take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjX5llYZ5eQ to see
       | what it's like in 6 minutes (from 4 years ago so kind of
       | obsolete) or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhfqjmasi0 to see a
       | complete, high-quality tutorial walking you through building a
       | 2-d platformer
       | 
       | it doesn't use python anymore, although gdscript is very similar
       | to python. but you can get pretty far into building godot games
       | with only a few lines of code
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | Godot, hands down. I used it with my then 12 year old to recreate
       | a game that she used to play with her friends. I was pretty
       | smooth sailing and the result was better than we expected, so we
       | plan to release it in the winter.
       | 
       | We don't expect a lot of downloads or to make any money from it
       | and that is not the point. The goal was to produce a minimal game
       | _completely_ DIY and from scratch. For the first version we
       | created everything ourselves, including the assets. For the
       | version we plan to release we will have a couple of select bought
       | assets, but it was a good path to start with our own creations.
       | 
       | A not to be underestimated bonus is that GDScript is similar
       | enough to Python that in my opinion learning it is useful beyond
       | Godot and game development.
        
       | keiferski wrote:
       | I think it's very smart of you to only start with a simple game
       | builder and not assume this means your child is "born to be a
       | game designer" or interested in programming. Most kids like video
       | games and I imagine video game designer tops the list of jobs
       | kids want to have when they grow up, right next to YouTuber.
       | 
       | The question is whether that interest is actually a lifelong one.
       | In my case, I applied to some degree programs for video game
       | design, but ended up going to something else entirely. This
       | turned out to be a very good thing, as I slowly lost interest in
       | gaming over the next decade, as is natural for a lot of people, I
       | think. Nowadays I still enjoy the occasional game, but would
       | never consider making it my career. Had I assumed that my teenage
       | interest in gaming was a deeper lifelong one, I think I'd have
       | made some poor decisions in terms of education, jobs, etc.
        
       | gcr wrote:
       | Here's an unconventional choice: grab a copy of the old RPG Maker
       | XP and let them at it. Most of the difficulty is selecting and
       | arranging art assets.
       | 
       | There are scripts, but the language syntax is all controlled by
       | button presses and dialog boxes, so it's difficult to screw up.
       | 
       | If your kiddo is more programming-inclined, PICO-8 is self
       | contained.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Self-contained and constrained on purpose; if you go with e.g.
         | Unreal or some other big engine, there's a real risk of making
         | something too big, whereas pico-8 limits you in how big a game
         | can be.
        
       | fractorial wrote:
       | FWIW, I also started writing code when I was 11 years old as well
       | & I did so on Roblox.
       | 
       | Eventually, I branched out into hosting a webserver in PHP &
       | writing small demos in Unity (though I would recommend Unreal
       | nowadays).
        
       | jvm___ wrote:
       | I got AI to make this for me a few months ago. It took a few
       | prompts, including fixing a couple bugs I introduced by accident.
       | It even picked the emoji's.
       | 
       | https://rockpaperscissorslizardsomething.neocities.org/
        
       | ActionHank wrote:
       | My son is in the same age group. These are some notes for what
       | worked well for him.
       | 
       | Godot and Gamermaker are great because they have loads of
       | tutorials on YT. He can sit down and work through those pretty
       | comfortably. These work better than Unity \ Unreal because those
       | have so much to learn and a long time before you have something
       | playable and many tutorials would switch out to an IDE and had
       | loads of files which overwhelmed him.
       | 
       | He started with Scratch and built up to some pretty complex
       | gameplay. What's nice with this is that he was able to remix
       | existing games he liked that others have published. This meant he
       | learned more as he modified. Checkout griffpatch on YT for the
       | more complex stuff.
        
       | copperx wrote:
       | MegaZeux is where it's at.
       | 
       | The graphics limitations make it really fun.
        
       | jcmfernandes wrote:
       | https://github.com/hajimehoshi/ebiten (golang) and
       | https://github.com/gosu/gosu a (ruby) are, IMHO, worth exploring
       | if you want to put some emphasis on coding.
        
       | convivialdingo wrote:
       | Another one to try is GameSalad. It's paid but has a forum,
       | knowledge base, support, and generally aims at the younger
       | developers with visual coding.
        
       | Arelius wrote:
       | Roblox and Fortnite UEFN are both platforms that have a lot of
       | batteries included, and nice around building. Roblox is longer
       | invested, but Fortnite has much better constructed financial
       | incentives. But they are both code platforms, luau for Roblox and
       | verse for Fortnite (maybe it has BP support)
       | 
       | UE is good, has BP, and it's nice to be using pro tools from an
       | empowerment perspective. I'd maybe pick a starter game to start
       | from rather then from scratch...
       | 
       | Also, about Lua, It's not so far off from JavaScript (pre
       | classes) just tables instead of objects, and you have to
       | construct prototypal inheritance from more low-level metatable
       | methods. But after you get past the higher level quirks/syntax
       | you should feel right at home.
        
         | noblox wrote:
         | Strongly recommend against Roblox, as it's got a pretty long
         | history of being predatory towards children through marketing,
         | sales cuts, etc.
        
       | RodgerTheGreat wrote:
       | Decker is fairly "powerpoint-like" in the sense that it's
       | organized around a set of "cards" that can be drawn on. It's
       | designed to allow users to create simple interactive projects
       | without any programming, but there's also a powerful scripting
       | language available for more sophisticated projects.
       | 
       | http://beyondloom.com/decker/
       | 
       | Some examples of how people are using Decker:
       | 
       | https://itch.io/games/tag-decker
        
       | solfox wrote:
       | My kids love making their own board games. There are simple kits
       | from amazon with blank boards, cards, dice etc - great for
       | creativity.
        
       | will5421 wrote:
       | > They are a very creative kid currently experimenting with using
       | Power Point/Google Presentations to create a crafting and turn
       | based combat style game but is running into the obvious
       | limitations of this setup.
       | 
       | What limitations exactly? These will guide recommendations.
        
       | svec wrote:
       | I highly recommend Scratch! I wrote a post of the resources that
       | my kid used. It's the lowest friction way I know of to get kids
       | actually creating something fun, with a pretty fast fast feedback
       | loop.
       | 
       | https://chrissvec.com/scratch-resources/
       | 
       | On there I recommend 2 excellent tutorial series by Digipen that
       | got my kid started, and then a higher level "Scratcher" to follow
       | who has excellent tutorials that are more advanced than the
       | Digipen series.
        
       | singhrac wrote:
       | Scratch is great. I learned Scratch as a ~11 year old and it
       | sparked a love of building things that brings me joy even today.
       | 
       | I think the reason Scratch was good is that it channels your
       | interest in building something fun and interactive and gives you
       | a limited set of tools to figure it out, like "how do I make
       | bullets?" -> understand how the touch event works. But it doesn't
       | force you to do that much of it, unlike a real game engine
       | (Unity/Godot are nice for later but not a first introduction I
       | think).
       | 
       | Also one of the best things about making a video game as a kid is
       | you can show it to your friends! Getting feedback and navigating
       | your limits is a great learning experience ("no, that's not
       | possible because...").
        
       | f3z0 wrote:
       | Scratch from MIT labs! This is what all the kids at hacking time
       | use to learn coding in SV.
        
       | f3z0 wrote:
       | Scratch from MIT labs is what all the 9-12 yo kids at Hackingtons
       | use to learn game dev in Silicon Valley. Have fun!
        
       | danap wrote:
       | lindyFrame
       | 
       | Not limited to games, and also setup to share with others.
       | Already repository for various plugins to the platform.
       | TicTacToe, etc.
       | 
       | http://dandymadeproductions.com/projects/lindyFrame/lindyFra...
        
       | jansanchez wrote:
       | My son started with Scratch and did that for a few years. Then he
       | tried Pico-8 when he was about 10 years old and got really
       | interested on it. About a year ago, he tried Godot, and has been
       | using it since. He is mostly a self-learner so he was able to
       | pick up each of these on his own. I only gave him suggestions on
       | what to try.
       | 
       | I would recommend starting with Scratch as many have suggested.
       | It is easier to pick up than other options, and kids can always
       | move onto something more complex later on.
       | 
       | There is also Arcade MakeCode (https://arcade.makecode.com) which
       | is similar to Scratch.
       | 
       | Some of my son's projects:
       | 
       | - Godot: https://arandompsi.itch.io
       | 
       | - Scratch (rather old):
       | https://scratch.mit.edu/users/codewithliam/projects/
        
       | samiv wrote:
       | Just for giggles I collected some links here to some of the less
       | known projects and engines (outside Unity, UE and Godot)
       | 
       | The market is well saturated indeed!
       | 
       | https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/
       | 
       | https://twinery.org/
       | 
       | https://scratch.mit.edu/
       | 
       | https://editor.construct.net/
       | 
       | https://microstudio.dev/
       | 
       | https://gamemaker.io/en
       | 
       | https://www.buildgamebox.com/
       | 
       | https://gdevelop.io/
       | 
       | https://www.modd.io/
       | 
       | https://editor.p5js.org/
       | 
       | https://www.alice.org/
       | 
       | https://defold.com/
       | 
       | https://phaser.io/
        
       | bronlund wrote:
       | As several people has pointed out here, don't focus on
       | programming. That can kill the urge to make games pretty quick.
       | And an important thing often overlooked, is prototyping. Whatever
       | kind of game you are making, find a way to make a fast mockup
       | using paper or whatever - and test it.
       | 
       | That being said, you should take a look at simple game engines
       | like; Twine, GDevelop, TyranoBuilder and PICO-8. Just remember;
       | the easier they make it to do simple stuff, the harder is it to
       | do difficult stuff :)
       | 
       | To see what kind of games normal people make, check out
       | https://itch.io
        
       | teucris wrote:
       | Multiple people have suggested modding games. This is what led me
       | to computer engineering as a career- specifically Quake III mods.
       | Having games that are easily extended and hacked makes for an
       | incredible exploratory environment, especially if it's a game
       | that the child loves.
       | 
       | What's out there?
        
       | brentjanderson wrote:
       | https://rpginabox.com/ is fantastic. Includes a lot of great
       | assets, constrained enough to ensure you can actually build
       | something, open enough that you can build a lot of different
       | things with it.
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | Plain HTML and JS, aka a web browser.
       | 
       | I know it's every programmers favourite past time to hate on the
       | web platform, but BASIC had a similar hate, yet it kind of was a
       | well placed language for beginners.
       | 
       | The web browser is the closest modern equivalent of booting into
       | a basic prompt on $YOUR_FAVOURITE_80s_PC, without being as arcane
       | or limited. You can hit f12 and start poking around immediately,
       | on any modern computer... You don't have to install compilers,
       | libraries or complex dev tooling, just write a single plain text
       | file and you have access to a pixel buffer (canvas) in the most
       | documented and optimised scripting language in the world.
        
         | InsideOutSanta wrote:
         | There are also plenty of HTML game frameworks like Phaser,
         | which allow you to put sprites on a screen and show particle
         | effects almost immediately:
         | 
         | https://phaser.io/
        
       | porter wrote:
       | Try using cursor to write games using natural language. It takes
       | some iteration to get what you want, but kids seem to love it.
        
       | nxobject wrote:
       | I've had fun teaching kids to program for the Playdate, both with
       | their top-down RPG toolkit, and their Lua developer environment
       | as an intermediate level exercise. I find they're really
       | motivated on this platform for a few reasons:
       | 
       | - The fact that they publish their games onto a polished
       | handheld, rather than a toy environment;
       | 
       | - The fact that the Playdate has robust developer environments
       | (incl. simulator)
       | 
       | - The fact that they learn Lua, which they know is a pretty
       | transferrable skill in gamedev;
       | 
       | It also provides a nice environment for kids to start learning
       | graphics techniques and work at the event loop level, if that
       | interests them too.
       | 
       | The downside is that you have to shell out for a Playdate, but at
       | least not the dev environment!
        
       | Svoka wrote:
       | If your kid likes Roblox, do Roblox Despite all the shade, I
       | think that Roblox is the company that does by far the most in the
       | market to moderate their space and make it safe for kids. It is
       | still online place.
        
       | sflanker wrote:
       | I have used Kaboom https://kaboomjs.com/ to help a diverse group
       | of kids build a simple 2d game together. It's a toolkit
       | specifically geared toward 2d platform we type games but it could
       | be adapted to make other 2d games. I liked that it was just
       | JavaScript under the hood so you can introduce many programming
       | language concepts, but the engine makes it easy to get things
       | going with very little code. There are also lots of opportunity
       | to focus on design aspects over pure code.
       | 
       | You can also use it online with Replit
       | https://replit.com/@replit/Kaboom#code/main.ts which lets you get
       | up and running quickly and share your work online easily.
       | 
       | Apparently it is no longer actively maintained by Replit, but I'm
       | guessing it still works fine and there is also a community fork:
       | https://github.com/kaplayjs/kaplay?tab=readme-ov-file
        
       | InsideOutSanta wrote:
       | The natural evolution from PowerPoint would be something like
       | HyperCard. Unfortunately, there are no good modern versions of
       | HyperCard that are easily available. I guess the closest is
       | Decker, it was discussed on HN here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40292181
       | 
       | There's a native version on itch: https://internet-
       | janitor.itch.io/decker
       | 
       | For me, this is frustratingly close to being absolutely awesome,
       | but the visual adherence to what HyperCard looked in the 80s
       | prevents it from being a genuinely useful professional tool. It
       | replicates the reason why HyperCard died a slow, painful death.
       | 
       | For learning programming, it might be perfect, though, and the
       | visual restrictions might make it less daunting for children to
       | create their own graphics.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | I would definitely recommend RPG Maker.
       | 
       | I know this may be controversial, but I really do miss Flash. For
       | a lot of people it was _the_ platform for creating games.
        
       | sim7c00 wrote:
       | love2d is quite interesting. also, modding games can be a good
       | start. i started getting interested in how games worked through
       | modding half life 1. it was a game i loved and hence and easy
       | thing for me to imagine stuff in. from basic levels and learning
       | its entity system and vertex editing functions soon the itch came
       | for custom textures and code. theres likely more mod friendly
       | games nowadays (not having to code in C for example :'))
        
       | ycombinatrix wrote:
       | Garry's Mod
        
       | klik99 wrote:
       | My 7 & 8 year olds have been making stuff with Pulp
       | (https://play.date/pulp/), they really love seeing their results
       | on the Playdate device.
        
       | cm2012 wrote:
       | Two great starting points are level creation in Fall Guys and
       | custom maps in Starcraft 2.
        
       | DeveloperErrata wrote:
       | I want to plug the Little Big Planet series of games, it's what
       | got me into programming when I was young and I think it still has
       | a lot of charm
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-09-25 23:01 UTC)