[HN Gopher] Caroline Ellison sentenced to 2 years in prison
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Caroline Ellison sentenced to 2 years in prison
Author : gniting
Score : 79 points
Date : 2024-09-24 20:53 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| beaglesss wrote:
| [flagged]
| dang wrote:
| You've repeatedly been deleting and reposting this flagged
| comment. That's not a legit way to get around the moderation
| system here (which includes user flags). We ban accounts that
| do this, so please don't do it any more.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and
| escape with 2 years of prison?
|
| If the justice department was doing their job, and justice is
| blind... all of us?
| akavi wrote:
| Chances increase dramatically if we cooperate in testifying
| against the perceived "mastermind", as Ms. Ellison did.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| It's called a plea deal. She helped out the investigation and
| got other people convicted. She probably would have gotten no
| sentence at all if the crime hadn't been so bad.
|
| The Judge "believed Ms. Ellison was genuinely remorseful and
| that her cooperation had been substantial."
|
| The remorseful bit is a very important component here. She
| didn't commit the crime with the intention of gaming the system
| later to get away with it.
|
| Personally, I'm okay with this. It's a huge incentive for
| others involved in a criminal enterprise to do the same thing
| in the future. It's worth letting one person off lightly to
| guarantee you get everyone else.
| Implicated wrote:
| Just out of curiosity, what do the orgies have to do with
| prison time? Are orgies at work illegal?
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Not necessarily illegal from what I understand; but it easily
| could contribute to a lawsuit for a hostile work environment,
| could anger investors, and could _maybe_ cause a lawsuit for
| allowing the executives to be irresponsibly vulnerable to
| blackmail or rape allegations.
|
| Besides professionalism, it's just plain stupid. What happens
| if a participant claims they were pressured into it for the
| sake of a promotion, or for the sake of not being fired, or
| for the sake of not losing their visa? The result would be a
| disaster. This is also so predictable, that _maybe_ an
| investor could claim legal negligence.
| shrubble wrote:
| It speaks to the level of seriousness with which they
| approached their fiduciary duties, would be my view.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Does it mean they are more or less serious? what exactly
| are the connections?
| Lerc wrote:
| Is there any evidence to say that they happened? The only
| thing I have seen is extrapolation from comments made online
| about polyamory. Is there a source citing specific events at
| specific locations?
| JSDevOps wrote:
| I think the comment was hyperbole
| linotype wrote:
| Not to mention when she gets out of prison she'll be rich. Who
| knows how much crypto she has stored away.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| I'm fairly confident that she would have been required to
| surrender all of her crypto as part of the plea deal. If she
| didn't, it's perjury and she gets to go back to jail.
| lancesells wrote:
| I think I read she owes $11B as part of her conviction.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Not me. I would not serve two years in prison for any amount of
| money. That is insane.
| wepple wrote:
| Nit: _have_ orgies
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| You can do them too, haha
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| Proof once again that justice at its highest levels in the US is
| to punish the poor and middle class and slap the rich on their
| wrists. There are people who have stolen food to eat who have
| gotten harsher punishments.
| jdminhbg wrote:
| > There are people who have stolen food to eat who have gotten
| harsher punishments.
|
| Are there?
| PlunderBunny wrote:
| https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-
| xpm-1995-03-03-me-38444-...
| jdminhbg wrote:
| > He and a friend, prosecutors would contend, somewhat
| intoxicated and possibly playing a game of "truth or dare,"
| approached four youngsters dining on an extra-large
| pepperoni pizza.
|
| Not defending three strikes laws from thirty years ago
| which have since been repealed anyway, but this was not
| someone "stealing to eat."
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| You can get life in prison for three non-violent convictions
| of selling LSD.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_L._Tyler
| bilbo0s wrote:
| To be fair, poverty builds character. So applying our "Tough On
| (the poor who commit) Crime" logic:
|
| if even poverty was unable to prevent that person from stealing
| food when hungry then they are clearly irredeemable.
|
| /s
| onemoresoop wrote:
| Yes, but you have to keep in mind that she made a deal to get
| this lighter sentence, she was a star witness and testified
| against Sam Bankman-Fried. Deals aren't necessarily for rich or
| poor, it's just a way for prosecution to accomplish their
| mission. She didn't get away scot-free, two years isn't the
| lightest sentence possible. Though she probably did have a good
| lawyer poor people could never afford...
|
| And keep in mind that she wasn't the mastermind, she was just
| dumb and easily manipulated...
| hilux wrote:
| Dumb? All these people, ONCE THEY'RE CAUGHT, want us to
| believe that they're dumb.
|
| Her parents are both MIT Professors. She was on the US
| team(!) for the International Linguistic Olympiad. She won
| all sorts of academic contests before getting a Math degree
| from Stanford.
|
| She was CEO of Alameda Research.
|
| And now we're supposed to believe she was a "dumb" naive
| waif, manipulated and preyed upon by SBF, that evil
| manipulative shark?!
| rich_sasha wrote:
| I have no skin in the game, and can't judge the sincerity of her
| remorse, but 2 years seems astonishingly low, given she was a
| senior executive of a multi-billion dollar fraud.
|
| Almost makes it worth having a go at one.
| killingtime74 wrote:
| It's because she assisted the prosecution so got a big discount
| Simon_ORourke wrote:
| It does indeed, if you could squirrel away a few million from
| nosey prosecutors, do your two years and come out "clean" the
| other side (assuming it's a federal rap with no possibility of
| remission for his behavior).
| eschulz wrote:
| I believe at one point Jimmy Zhong mentioned something about
| how living like a billionaire for nine years was worth the one
| year prison sentence he received. I guess the key is to stay
| away from violence, and then once it's up admit you were wrong
| and state that you are committed to reform (or whatever your
| lawyers tell you to say).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Zhong
| bragr wrote:
| >living like a billionaire for nine years was worth the one
| year prison sentence he received
|
| He's only been out for a little bit. Give it 10 years and ask
| him how being a broke felon is. Especially with a fraud
| conviction which will preclude him from employment even more.
| hilux wrote:
| That guy will never be "broke."
| Aunche wrote:
| The Bitcoin was only worth $620,000 at the time though, and
| he only was able to do so because he stumbled upon a bug in
| the Silk Road, so it wasn't premeditated. That's very
| different from knowingly gambling with billions of dollars
| from your customer's money like Ellison or SBF.
| intuitionist wrote:
| Yeah, if you can find one where there's a more senior exec with
| more culpability who you can flip on. And once you've found
| that, you might as well become a whistleblower instead, which
| has considerable upside and much lower downside.
| zombiwoof wrote:
| Exactly, what nobody is talking about is she is only remorseful
| because she got CAUGHT
| cortesoft wrote:
| Seriously? There is no amount of money I would be willing to
| serve two years in prison for.
|
| She has no money, can't get a job, and is going to be IN PRISON
| for two years.
|
| I never understand people who seem to think any amount of jail
| time is trivial. I wouldn't serve 30 days in jail for a billion
| dollars.
| quesera wrote:
| > _I never understand people who seem to think any amount of
| jail time is trivial._
|
| There's "jail" (colloquial for generic/television "prison"
| and all the real and fictional horrors that evokes), and then
| there's "minimum security womens' prison". These are
| qualitatively different things, and Ms Ellison is headed for
| the latter.
|
| > _I wouldn't serve 30 days in jail for a billion dollars._
|
| Interesting. I suspect that for a _lot_ less than that, most
| people would even consider serving 30 days in a supermax. Or
| solitary confinement.
|
| We have a few regular posters here on HN who have spent much
| more than 30 days in some version of "prison". I am not one
| of them, so my thoughts are of little value, but I would be
| very curious to hear theirs.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Nobody said that jail time is trivial. I take it very
| seriously, but you're going way overboard in saying you would
| refuse $1 billion to spend 30 days in jail. That is such a
| large amount of money that you are set for the rest of your
| life, never have to worry about any needs again. 30 days of
| pure concentrated misery is something a lot of people would
| be willing to pay for that kind of reward.
| MichaelNolan wrote:
| > I wouldn't serve 30 days in jail for a billion dollars.
|
| Prison isn't that bad. Especially a federal minimum security
| woman's prison. It's basically like a summer camp, but with
| nothing fun to do.
| balls187 wrote:
| Never been, but I suspect GP's comments has to do with the
| stigma and limitations once you are a convicted felon.
| mikestew wrote:
| In the context of GP's quoting, you'd be a convicted
| felon, sure. But you'd also be a billionaire, and which
| point I'd not be terribly concerned about "stigma".
| jlarocco wrote:
| > I wouldn't serve 30 days in jail for a billion dollars.
|
| I certainly would. $1 billion is well into "never work again"
| territory, and lots of people spend much more time in jail
| than that, have far fewer resources waiting for them, and
| turn out just fine.
| wepple wrote:
| > I wouldn't serve 30 days in jail for a billion dollars.
|
| You'd rather spend 50 years _totally free_ in your cubicle?
| mikestew wrote:
| I served 30-ish days in jail for a lot less than that. Not
| that I had a lot of choice in the matter.
| mozman wrote:
| Corporate america is like a prison. Only you have the
| illusion of choice.
| Magi604 wrote:
| Light sentence compared to Sam. Probably threw him hard under the
| bus for some leniency.
| jdminhbg wrote:
| No probably about it, this is explicitly the deal made with
| prosecutors.
| xenadu02 wrote:
| First to squeal gets the deal.
|
| The more they need an insider's testimony to make the case,
| find the money, and/or track the goods the better the deal can
| be.
| cortesoft wrote:
| You are probably right, based on the quote in this very article
| where the judge says that is exactly the reason.
|
| Not sure why you added 'probably'
| user90131313 wrote:
| yeah nothing compared to Sam trabucco
| draw_down wrote:
| It's amazing, one guy did everything completely by himself.
| throwup238 wrote:
| Regardless of the sentence, there's only one federal prison for
| women above low security so she's probably going to end up
| somewhere cushy with no fences and work release.
|
| SBF on the other hand...
| https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1av88z5/fir...
| alwaysrunning wrote:
| I don't think the Feds do work release, they have their own
| industries that you can slave away at for $0.17/hr. But you are
| right she will go to a camp since she is non-violent and only
| has 2 years. It's a points system and assuming she hasn't
| committed any crimes prior then her points will be low enough
| to go to a camp.
| kristianp wrote:
| What's a "camp"? Is it not a prison? Non-US person here.
| stackskipton wrote:
| It's a prison but it's generally much more open. Prisoners
| sleep in open air dorms, there are minimal to no fences,
| there are generally good education and recreation programs
| and vast majority of people are white collar criminals, the
| violence is much much lower.
| cdchn wrote:
| It probably doesn't apply as much to white collar
| criminals but I wonder if she would be considered a
| snitch by her fellow inmates.
| throwup238 wrote:
| The no snitching rule applies mostly to someone who is
| already in prison and consequences depend on the security
| level. No one's going to kill a snitch in minimum
| security, worst case scenario is that they'll be outcasts
| and get into a fight occasionally.
|
| The majority of prisoners are in prison because of a plea
| deal, not a jury verdict, so they often have to snitch on
| their accomplices as part of the plea deal (with _severe_
| consequences for lying and omissions). In practice the
| traditional prisoner's dilemma usually plays out with
| everyone snitching on each other and everyone getting a
| deal because the prosecutor doesn't want to waste time
| and money on a trial.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| It's a prison, just what you might call a "minimum security
| prison." Like, you might take out the garbage outside the
| prison with no supervision.
| trescenzi wrote:
| I believe it's being used as a colloquial play on "summer
| camp" to describe the prison as not that bad.
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| This is actually a term used by the BOP to describe
| minimum security institutions:
|
| "Minimum security institutions, also known as Federal
| Prison Camps (FPCs), have dormitory housing, a relatively
| low staff-to-inmate ratio, and limited or no perimeter
| fencing. These institutions are work- and program-
| oriented."
|
| https://www.bop.gov/about/facilities/federal_prisons.jsp
| throwup238 wrote:
| Federal minimum security prisons don't have fences
| surrounding the prison so the only thing keeping prisoners
| from "escaping" is the extra five years that'd be added to
| their sentence. They have far fewer guards and the
| prisoners live in dormitory style quarters so it's far more
| like adult summer camp than prison (commonly referred to as
| "Club Fed"). Instead of having services on site they'll
| often drive the prisoners to a local dentist or doctor,
| etc.
|
| As they get closer to release or if their sentences are
| short enough, prisoners can even get work release which
| allows them to leave the prison during the day to work at a
| regular job. (I think the GP is confusing work release and
| parole - the Federal system does have work release)
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| If you're in Western Europe a minimum security federal
| facility is probably closer to your understanding of a
| prison than an American's understanding. Hence Americans
| describe it as a camp, whereas if you looked at it you
| might say hey, that's a prison.
| zrobotics wrote:
| The sibling comments are incorrect, the minimum security
| prisons are called 'Federal Prison Camps", the colloquial
| name is 'Club Fed'. There aren't a ton of these facilities,
| so I can see why other people thought that the camp
| phrasing wasn't literal. Think military camp rather than
| summer camp.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal
| _...
| voisin wrote:
| Do prisoners have to work?
| CSMastermind wrote:
| In almost every case the prisoner is doing it voluntarily.
|
| There are actually fewer prison jobs than prisoners willing
| to work. So in nearly every case being able to have a job
| while in prison is actually a privilege for the prisoners.
| One that can be taken away if they get in trouble.
|
| There's a lot of reform we should make with relation to
| prison jobs including raising wages and introducing
| relevant skills.
|
| But criticisms of it being slave labor are misleading.
|
| Forced labor is legal in the US and there are isolated
| cases of it happening but you're talking about a fraction
| of a percent of all prisoners.
| ciabattabread wrote:
| > Ms. Ellison is set to report to a minimum security prison in
| the Boston area by around Nov. 7, almost exactly two years
| after FTX collapsed.
|
| So it's Danbury, CT.
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| Danbury is only "in the Boston area" by the most generous of
| measures. Hell, Danbury's probably closer to _Philadelphia_
| than Boston.
| barbazoo wrote:
| That photo hit me hard. I'd have so many regrets.
| mozman wrote:
| Men have it far harder than women do in many respects. Gender
| does matter. Men are not equal.
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.ph/M4P6k
| lolinder wrote:
| Since the same comment is getting posted over and over about the
| light sentence, I'm raising this quote here for visibility:
|
| > Prosecutors did not recommend a specific sentence for Ms.
| Ellison, but they filed a memo to Judge Kaplan praising her
| "exemplary" cooperation with the government. Her lawyers
| requested that she serve no prison time.
|
| > "I have seen a lot of cooperators. I have never seen one like
| Ms. Ellison," Judge Kaplan said before announcing the sentence.
| "What she said on the stand was very incriminating of herself,
| and she pulled no punches about it."
|
| > Judge Kaplan said the difference between Ms. Ellison and Mr.
| Bankman-Fried was that "she cooperated and he denied the whole
| thing."
|
| We knew her sentence would be light back during SBF's trial
| because she was a key witness in that case. The prosecutors
| traded her sentence for his.
| golergka wrote:
| Makes sense. This precedent creates the incentives for
| criminals to cooperate in the future.
| shmatt wrote:
| So all diddy needs to do is get on the stand and describe every
| single party of his and he'll get a slap on the wrist?
|
| While there should be more incentives to cooperate, like the
| type of prison, allowed visits, etc. claiming someone should
| serve less time because they described so much of their own
| crimes is kind of silly
| rexreed wrote:
| You only get a reduced sentence if you cooperate in the
| prosecution against someone else the government / prosecutor
| is just as or more interested in. That wouldn't be the case
| with the diddle.
| pessimizer wrote:
| We want to bribe criminals to betray each other. The people
| who they are betraying could do anything up to killing them
| to prevent this, and we have to compete with that.
|
| The world gets zero benefit to imprisoning this woman
| indefinitely, it in fact costs money, and if the government
| had to prove their case against her without her cooperation,
| it would just cost even more money. Not letting a fully-
| cooperating sucker like her off is the _opposite_ of a
| deterrent to crime. It 's telling low-level people who are
| involved in crimes that it's better to keep quiet. We want to
| encourage them to betray. I hope when she gets out she
| becomes a celebrity, and it encourages other young people to
| decide to whistleblow or turn snitch on the scammy companies
| they work for.
| miki123211 wrote:
| She didn't just describe her own crimes, although I'm sure
| that played a part.
|
| She also described _somebody else 's_ crimes, and did that in
| a way which helped the government with sentencing the "real
| villain."
| AlbertCory wrote:
| In the real world, a prosecutor can only nail a higher-up
| with the cooperation of the people lower down. Those people
| only cooperate if they get a lighter sentence. It's too bad,
| but that's how it is and it plays out every day in criminal
| courts.
|
| As for Diddy: a real, disinterested DOJ would say, "oh, you
| can testify against <people more famous than you>? Well, we
| might be able to cut you a deal."
|
| Of course, if the DOJ is not interested in prosecuting those
| people, then no deal. If they think Diddy is _already_
| important enough and they can 't let him slide, then no deal,
| or at least, a medium-stiff sentence.
|
| Finally, two years in prison is not a picnic. See if you want
| to do it.
| farceSpherule wrote:
| Where do they find these grifters?
| huitzitziltzin wrote:
| Game theory works.
| wmf wrote:
| FTX executives have collectively gotten 35 years in prison (with
| more to go). Maybe this will help people in this thread see that
| there is a big picture.
| nebula8804 wrote:
| >Maybe this will help people in this thread see that there is a
| big picture.
|
| Don't steal money from or offend the rich/elite and you will be
| all right?
|
| Both SBF and Martin Shkreli have learned that.
| arduanika wrote:
| There are enough wildly different conspiracy theories around
| these events that I genuinely have no inkling of a clue what
| you mean. Which big picture are we supposed to see, and what's
| the relation to 35 years?
| wmf wrote:
| People keep saying there's not enough punishment but they're
| not seeing that somebody is being punished; it's just not
| Caroline.
| mozman wrote:
| She should have gotten the same as Sam.
| FooBarBizBazz wrote:
| Two years in prison relaxing and reading books?
|
| A lot of us have blown more years of our lives, in worse
| environments, to hang on for four-year vesting schedules.
| RadiozRadioz wrote:
| My brain skipped the Caroline part and I totally believed it
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