[HN Gopher] Twitter/X will let people you've blocked see your posts
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       Twitter/X will let people you've blocked see your posts
        
       Author : Kye
       Score  : 88 points
       Date   : 2024-09-23 20:24 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | rogerrogerr wrote:
       | Musk is right on this one. It wasn't serving any real purpose to
       | let me selectively block other people from _seeing_ my posts (but
       | _interacting_ does make sense).
       | 
       | If I genuinely don't want someone to see my posts, I just can't
       | put it on Twitter/X unless I have a private profile (is that
       | still a thing?).
       | 
       | Otherwise, it's a public platform, in that anyone can register
       | with little more than an email address and see my posts. Claiming
       | to block someone from seeing them seems like it provides a false
       | sense of security to users.
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | Twitter itself recognized there are levels of public early on.
         | The original site was _every post_ in one timeline.
         | 
         | The things I say to a room or to people at a table are not
         | meant for everyone at the event. The phrase context collapse
         | came about and persists for a reason. A blocked person has been
         | kicked out of the public local to the poster and their
         | followers. It doesn't make sense for them to be able to
         | continue to act like they're in the space, but just not
         | speaking.
         | 
         | The fact that someone can violate the rules and norms of a
         | space doesn't mean you don't have rules and norms.
        
           | bensecure wrote:
           | "Can be seen by anyone in the world except for tom because
           | fuck tom" isn't a different "level of public", it's just
           | caprice. As the GP mentioned, if you want to restrict who can
           | see your tweets, set your account to private.
        
             | JohnMakin wrote:
             | Maybe caprice except in the exceedingly common instances
             | where someone is the target of harassment. I mean this is
             | the obvious example, there are others. In that case "make
             | your profile private if you dont want to be
             | harassed/stalked" is not really that palatable.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _except in the exceedingly common instances where
               | someone is the target of harassment_
               | 
               | Super low-effort harassment, where the harasser can't
               | bother creating a new Twitter account.
        
               | JohnMakin wrote:
               | It's an additional barrier. It also provides the blocking
               | user the ability to block the new account. This isn't
               | very difficult to think through. And if it's so easy, why
               | the need for this new "feature" to begin with?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _also provides the blocking user the ability to block
               | the new account. This isn't very difficult to think
               | through_
               | 
               | The harasser can view from their new accounts and respond
               | on their main account. Unless someone is very tightly
               | curating their follower list, at which point it doesn't
               | make sense for them to be publicly tweeting, there would
               | be no indication which account was responsible.
               | 
               | The problem in harassment is the harassment. Not the
               | harasser's access to the public domain.
        
               | JohnMakin wrote:
               | Again, then why the need for this feature if it is so
               | easy to get around a block? A harasser can do many
               | things, but removing a barrier for the person being
               | harassed to mitigate it because... reasons feels very odd
               | to me. Can you explain what this new feature provides
               | legitimate users that doesn't already exist?
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Can you explain what this new feature provides
               | legitimate users that doesn't already exist?_
               | 
               | In America we have case law that prohibits public
               | officials from blocking their constituents from their
               | official accounts [1]. Not every country does.
               | 
               | Also, that ruling doesn't cover material edge cases.
               | Should a public figure be able to block journalists they
               | don't like? Oil companies anyone with an environmental
               | leaning to avoid tipping them off on something they
               | weren't searching for?
               | 
               | We have a media-bubble problem in America that is
               | increasingly defined by partisan lines. From a social
               | utility position, clarifying that public means public
               | strikes me as more important than edge-case harassment
               | concerns. Particularly when the stakes are so low on both
               | sides of the scale (due to the ease with which blocks can
               | be circumvented and the fact that we're dealing with
               | content the speaker has explicilty chosen to make
               | public).
               | 
               | [1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-611_ap
               | 6c.pdf
        
               | JohnMakin wrote:
               | > In America we have case law that prohibits public
               | officials from blocking their constituents from their
               | official accounts [1].
               | 
               | Can't they just make a new account to see the posts? Are
               | you stating that you think this is the reason this is
               | being implemented? As for the rest of your post, your
               | whole argument is undermined by the arguments you've
               | already made in this thread.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Can't they just make a new account to see the posts?_
               | 
               | Sure. But they may not know they've been blocked.
               | 
               | > _you think this is the reason this is being implented?_
               | 
               | No. I think it's being done to increase engagement.
               | Engagement scales with outrage, and a pretty simple way
               | to boost outrage would be by showing people stuff they've
               | been blocked from.
               | 
               | > _your whole argument is undermined by the arguments
               | you've already made in this argument_
               | 
               | Not really. Blocking users from seeing your public
               | content degrades weak relationships. My interest in what
               | my state Senator is doing is a weak relationship; I don't
               | think I'd be able to tell if they stopped e-mailing me
               | for at least a full election cycle. Harassment, on the
               | other hand, is a strong relationship. That provides
               | circumvention motivation.
               | 
               | My argument is that there appear to be marginal benefits
               | to this policy. If the cost is making unmotivated
               | harassers' jobs a little easier, inasmuch as it pertains
               | to them viewing (not responding to) public content, that
               | seems to be worth it.
        
               | trompetenaccoun wrote:
               | There isn't a legitimate need for this feature, that's
               | the point.
        
               | bensecure wrote:
               | > In that case "make your profile private if you don't
               | want to be harassed/stalked" is not really that
               | palatable.
               | 
               | If someone is harassing you on twitter, then blocking
               | them still stops that, modulo them making a new account.
               | Stalking, in the sense of looking at your public posts,
               | can't be stopped, because it's trivial for them to open
               | your posts in a private window, or create a new account
               | just for stalking (which of course they wouldn't tell you
               | about, hence you couldn't block it). So in fact the only
               | option you have to avoid such stalking is to make your
               | account private, period.
        
           | bgirard wrote:
           | I agree if getting a seat at the table requires some vetting,
           | but if something is being shouted publicly into a megaphone
           | your analogy doesn't work. If something is so public that a
           | logged out user can see it, it's weird of a logged in account
           | to not see it.
        
           | ChocolateGod wrote:
           | > The things I say to a room or to people at a table are not
           | meant for everyone at the event.
           | 
           | But that's not what Twitter/X is, it's more akin to standing
           | in an open access field with a megaphone. You have no right
           | to say who should be in the field or not, and if you don't
           | want someone to hear something, the best thing to do is not
           | say it in the field in the first place.
        
           | Arnt wrote:
           | It's bad UX. Telling people that blocked users can't see your
           | posts mislead them, because all that's needed for as blocked
           | user is to open a window in incognito mode.
           | 
           | Good user interfaces don't tell users things that are far
           | from true. Even if we all wish the things could be true.
        
           | nailer wrote:
           | Not being able to see someone else's tweets until you made a
           | different account was always security theatre.
        
           | heraldgeezer wrote:
           | >The things I say to a room or to people at a table are not
           | meant for everyone at the event.
           | 
           | Not what Twitter was or is? You have misunderstood the site
           | like a Facebook timeline boomer poster. "uuoooh people can
           | see this!!!" Yes. Twitter is not your own IRC server. But
           | seeing as it started with MacBook Starbucks hipsters, I am
           | not surprised they just made something up in their minds and
           | rolled with it.
        
         | tadfisher wrote:
         | How can I keep Musk's posts from showing up in my feed if
         | blocking doesn't hide them?
         | 
         | I think that's the real motivation, actually.
        
           | rogerrogerr wrote:
           | The change here is that blocking Musk no longer makes it so
           | _he_ can't see _your_ posts while he's logged in.
        
           | dotnet00 wrote:
           | You can still mute his account. That has always been an
           | option, and that is not changing with this.
        
       | moralestapia wrote:
       | Every change breaks someone's workflow ...
       | 
       | The only effective way I've found to stop seeing stuff from
       | people I dgaf in my feed was to block them.
       | 
       | I was even considering creating a Github repo. with all the
       | usernames I've been selecting out for years, so that people could
       | easily de-shittify their Twitter feed.
       | 
       | The set includes (excludes?):
       | 
       | * the most prominent accounts that post political content; no
       | partisan bias, they're all gone for me
       | 
       | * most major news accounts, including anyone that regularly posts
       | any kind of content related to any side of any war, ever
       | 
       | * "science influencers" where the "science" are actually ads or
       | some deranged guy screaming while wearing a lab coat
       | 
       | * Ian Miles Cheong and the Krassenstein Brothers
       | 
       | * hundreds of e-whores
       | 
       | * hundreds of "I made 1 million dollars last week" accounts
       | 
       | * ... and many more
       | 
       | gg to that
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | > The only effective way I've found to stop seeing stuff from
         | people I dgaf in my feed was to block them.
         | 
         | Do you see people's posts even if you don't follow them?
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | Yes. All the time.
           | 
           | My "For you" page is ~95% the things described above and only
           | ~5% things related to the accounts I follow.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | Much of the worsening of Twitter is centered around them
           | deciding what you should see in order to maximize outrage,
           | engagement, revenue.
           | 
           | This means that in the replies to a tweet, for example, they
           | can now rank highly all the spam and culture war bullshit
           | that people have previously blocked.
        
             | willy_k wrote:
             | It doesn't mean that, it means all the bullshit that people
             | have blocked can now see their tweets.
        
         | scarlehoff wrote:
         | You will still not see them.
         | 
         | If I understood correctly, the change here is that now those
         | hundreds of e-whores and Ian Miles Cheong will be able to see
         | your posts. So blocking is still the right strategy for what
         | you want (for now).
        
       | vfclists wrote:
       | That should be OK so long as they don't get to respond to those
       | posts or link to them, and that should include posts they are
       | referenced in or embedded in.
        
         | DoesntMatter22 wrote:
         | Referenced in? That is waaaay too far. That means if the person
         | blocked you, you essentially can't talk about them.
        
           | vfclists wrote:
           | I can't edit the original response, but I meant you shouldn't
           | be able to make replies to threads of their retweeted posts.
        
       | DoesntMatter22 wrote:
       | That's fantastic, Jason Calacanis blocked me, idk why, I think I
       | said I didn't like one of the All In Podcasts and he didn't like
       | that. But it's annoying because I like to see his posts.
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | With that kind of decisions, always assume that there is a hidden
       | agenda.
       | 
       | In that case, i could imagine for example that this can be
       | something done to ease a further AI feature. it is almost
       | impossible to train an AI for content with individual
       | customization. So if Y is blocked to see your content, that is
       | impossible to have AI trained on your tweets and still be sure
       | that Y can't get the content of your tweets.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _With that kind of decisions, always assume that there is a
         | hidden agenda_
         | 
         | What kind of decisions? Why?
         | 
         | The motivation seems simple: increase engagement by broadening
         | the amount of content someone can see / be shown.
        
           | greatgib wrote:
           | Honestly I don't think that the few "blocked" tweets where
           | you still can't interact with is making a real difference in
           | term of ad monetizable engagement.
           | 
           | You will see what will come next and it will be clear.
           | 
           | If not for AI indexation, another hypothesis is something
           | like removing the paywall needing an account to access user
           | content or something like that.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _don 't think that the few "blocked" tweets where you
             | still can't interact with is making a real difference in
             | term of ad monetizable engagement_
             | 
             | Engagement scales with outrage. If there is a singular
             | marker of outrage, it's in blocking.
             | 
             | > _not for AI indexation_
             | 
             | Why would Twitter want to help third parties train their AI
             | on its data? Musk already has an AI venture. If there were
             | a secret agenda around AI, it would be in _reducing_
             | visibility. Not increasing it.
             | 
             | > _removing the paywall needing an account to access user
             | content_
             | 
             | What paywall? The sign-in wall? Again, why would Twitter
             | have a hidden agenda to undermine something Twitter is
             | doing to boost user numbers?
             | 
             | These hypotheses are incoherent because they don't stem
             | from any observations, but are trying to work backwards to
             | justify the existence of a hidden agenda.
        
               | greatgib wrote:
               | For the AI indexation I didn't mean to help third parties
               | read messages, more that for Musk own AI agent to be
               | usable by the Public and able to use or reference tweets,
               | he wouldn't need a shit storm where you use Groq to
               | browse content that is normally blocked to you.
               | 
               | Regarding the other hypothesis related to the "sign in"
               | wall, based on number it looks like that this wall is not
               | working anymore to boost users as the number of users is
               | collapsing. So there might be a plan to enlarge "page
               | views" and so user engagement by reopening the Public
               | view of tweets.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | If the previous Elon/X rumors are true(a big if, perhaps), I
         | feel like the hidden agenda here is more likely that someone
         | blocked Musk and Musk is upset that he can no longer see the
         | posts.
        
           | wannacboatmovie wrote:
           | It's quite foolish to assume that they couldn't quietly code
           | up a "God mode" for Elon's account, or assume that isn't
           | already in place, and instead had to create a feature to roll
           | out to 350M users where Elon had an account no different than
           | the unwashed masses.
           | 
           | It's his site, they would code up whatever he asked, X is no
           | longer design by committee. Remember when the Reddit
           | CEO/owner/whatever was hand editing the database to alter
           | users' comments to make it look like they posted something
           | they hadn't?
        
           | dangerwill wrote:
           | Idk he has at least three alts (the weird baby role play one,
           | Adrian Dittmann, DogeDesigner). Though maybe the people who
           | have blocked him who he wants to see also know to block those
           | to be fair
        
         | mwfogleman wrote:
         | More simply: people are increasingly blocking advertisers to
         | hide their advertisements. This would prevent you from
         | shielding yourself from ads.
        
           | giraffe_lady wrote:
           | Really valid use case too. Very very common in recovery to
           | block alcohol or gambling companies to avoid their ads.
        
       | CincinnatiMan wrote:
       | I'm not on Twitter but in its current form, wouldn't a blocked
       | user be able to see the blocker's posts just by using an
       | incognito window or logging in as a different account?
        
         | amenhotep wrote:
         | Yes. It's always been a stupid, petulant implementation, and
         | its widespread acceptance is confusing.
        
           | Jordrok wrote:
           | The point of blocking is to prevent harassment, no? Hiding
           | the blocker's posts from the blockee puts up an additional
           | barrier to interaction. Even if it can be circumvented, it
           | still requires some effort and may dissuade the person from
           | continuing the harassment. There is a reason why this is the
           | standard implementation for almost every social media site,
           | and petulance has nothing to do with it.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | I would say that the point of blocking is to prevent
             | someone from contacting you. Not to prevent harassment.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | Different account, yes, incognito window, no. You can only see
         | direct links without being logged in.
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | I just wish they would let me see anyone's posts [without logging
       | in].
        
         | sureglymop wrote:
         | We regret to have to inform you that you are not part of the
         | free speech in-group.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Good. They can see them anyways by logging out. I can understand
       | blocking their ability to post on your post but I think they
       | should be able to see your posts and quote them on their own
       | profile.
        
       | ycombinatrix wrote:
       | how many years did this take?
        
       | timonoko wrote:
       | @lexfridman had it coming.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | I have no idea who that is, but Twitter/X increasingly sounds
         | like it's degenerated into a schoolyard (where the richest kid
         | asked his dad to buy the land next to the school building and
         | put up a private playground for him).
        
           | animex wrote:
           | This whole X debacle has fragmented the microblogging
           | universe which is actually a good thing. TruthSocial and X
           | have become right-wing staples. Threads seems to be full of
           | positivity right now. Mastodon for the techies and niche
           | communities. I've actually started exploring other sane
           | places of community gathering like Reddit and oddly enough
           | YouTube comments. As Karpathy recently commented, the YouTube
           | comments section somehow became non-toxic overnight.
        
             | nojs wrote:
             | The YouTube comment section is non-toxic because only the
             | "wow, this is amazing" comments are shown. Anything
             | critical gets buried.
        
             | ksp-atlas wrote:
             | Last time I remember, YouTube comments were full of spam
             | bots talking about vile things to get attention
        
               | watt wrote:
               | And would you care to document for posterity when was
               | that last time? I think the change in YouTube comments
               | happened some 7-8 years ago, so 2017 or so.
        
               | recursivecaveat wrote:
               | Ironically the current spam trend is for bots to post
               | very vague and effusive positive comments "Wow, you're
               | such an inspiration" to try to get clicks on their
               | profiles. I think the only real hateful bot trend was
               | lengthy religious screeds maybe 2-3 years ago. Nowadays
               | the religious spam is either more positive or apocalyptic
               | I would say. There's plenty of people who post lots of
               | hateful material, but since it's generally at least
               | germane I assume it's at most trivially automated?
        
               | cooper_ganglia wrote:
               | For me, the last time I saw it was last week. Prior to
               | that, probably the week before. It's definitely gotten
               | better over the last 2-3 years, but it's certainly not
               | perfect.
        
               | dotnet00 wrote:
               | I see "this video is awful, check out my channel" or "I
               | did X awful thing, check my channel!" style spam comments
               | on YouTube daily.
        
             | concordDance wrote:
             | > I've actually started exploring other sane places of
             | community gathering like Reddit
             | 
             | What sane subreddits have you found?
        
             | timonoko wrote:
             | "Somehow overnight" was when the videomaker become
             | responsible for anything that was written under his rubric.
        
             | Palmik wrote:
             | YouTube is clearly boosting "positive" comments. I am not
             | sure it's a good solution if you care about other people's
             | opinions.
        
             | malshe wrote:
             | I think most people commenting on YT have realized that
             | only positivity gets visibility. Pick any video that has
             | decent view count and you will see the first few comments
             | saying "I just want to say, this video is so amazing" or
             | "Wow you have put in so much work in making this video".
             | Then the creator would like those comments and they stay at
             | the top.
        
             | heraldgeezer wrote:
             | I have really come to understand that some Twitter users
             | see Twitter as their own private garden somehow and do not
             | realize that anyone can see your posts... So somehow it
             | becomes uncomfortable when they are reminded of this fact.
             | 
             | You seem like one of these people.
             | 
             | You ONYL used twitter? You didnt use Reddit or Youtube? I
             | am baffled but this makes the upset people make a bit more
             | sense. Twitter was "theirs" so nobody else dare come in.
             | They are the ones complaining about gatekeeping etc but
             | treat Twitter like a chatroom and become offended when
             | someone calls them out.
             | 
             | For the record, I do not have a Twitter account/phone
             | banned. I am not in the USA. If I could vote in your
             | elections I would vote Kamala. Just to be clear and to calm
             | your blood pressue.
             | 
             | >Threads seems to be full of positivity right now.
             | 
             | Toxic positivity sure. _ YOU GO QUEEN!! SLAY!!! _
        
       | nicexe wrote:
       | I always thought this was a stupid restriction. You can't view
       | the post while authenticated but you can view the post while
       | unauthenticated.
        
         | boo-ga-ga wrote:
         | It might look like this, but thinking about it, I guess it's
         | still useful in reducing unwanted interactions. People are
         | lazy, and thus adding even a little friction can help a lot in
         | preventing them from doing stalkering, spreading hate etc.
         | 
         | I.e. of course it's possible to login with another user, find
         | the one who blocked you, make a screenshot or something and
         | then quote it or perform any other interaction in your main
         | account. But it's obviously not very easy.
         | 
         | So I'm sure it worked as a solution to reduce negative
         | interactions on the platform. However, Musk doesn't want
         | reducing these, his goal is spreading chaos and forcing his
         | narratives, so the decision totally makes sense for him.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _his goal is spreading chaos and forcing his narratives_
           | 
           | It may be as simple as revealing blocked content is a short
           | path to increasing outrage and thus engagement. Like, I could
           | see Facebook doing this on Threads.
        
           | johnnyanmac wrote:
           | They should have had an "ignore" feature from the start, as
           | well as block. They can post all the vile they want, I just
           | don't want to read it.
           | 
           | But IME, the kind of people I want to block are the exact
           | kinds of people that would go through all that effort to keep
           | trying to cause drama.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | It provides friction for further misbehaving. Imagine you
         | blocked someone who has serious issues with people who #foobar.
         | It's better for you if they can't easily find you and repost
         | your content to their community who also hate #foobar. It's not
         | perfect, but the friction helps prevent drive-by bad behaviour.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _repost your content to their community who also hate
           | #foobar_
           | 
           | This is valid. I don't think it rises to the level of
           | preventing them from seeing my public content. But perhaps a
           | brake on their ability to repost it would be courteous.
        
           | trompetenaccoun wrote:
           | It's the opposite. People with serious issues (i.e. stalkers,
           | trolls etc.) will continue following on a second account or
           | proxy. Meanwhile regular accounts with legitimate criticisms
           | (for example pointing out misinformation, calling out bias,
           | and so on) get blocked by bad actors and those will not find
           | them anymore and repost because they don't invest time in it.
           | 
           | Blocking mainly prevents regular normal users from seeing
           | tweets. Best example is Lex Fridman who's blocked a million
           | people for no apparent reason. Say something he doesn't like:
           | You're blocked. Never even interacted with him but commented
           | on a topic he doesn't approve of: Blocked. You under-cook
           | fish: Believe it or not, he blocks you.
        
             | bragr wrote:
             | Those are all issues as well, but brigading is absolutely a
             | thing.
        
               | trompetenaccoun wrote:
               | Just to be clear they still won't be able to interact
               | with you after they're blocked. The only change is they
               | can keep seeing your tweets directly in their account, as
               | opposed to having to log out.
        
               | orwin wrote:
               | This I think is good. I don't really care about what is
               | shown, because in my opinion, twitter discussions are
               | rarely worth anything, but I get the point of 'more
               | visibility = good'. I just dislike brigading. And I don't
               | follow anything political on Twitter, I used to follow
               | cybersec and US sports, still there you had brigading
               | (and sometimes attacks got _really_ personal, like a
               | bunch of people making dogwhistle comments about someone
               | who criticized their favorite basketball player because
               | he looks ashkenaz. I think he's a tv personality now
               | btw).
        
               | miki123211 wrote:
               | Blocking doesn't really fix the brigading problem,
               | regardless of whether people need to log out or not.
               | 
               | Most X users will just post a screenshot of the tweet,
               | breaking accessibility in the process and disassociating
               | the original author from the thread against their will.
               | 
               | This isn't always a good thing, as it leads to people
               | being surprised by crowds of strangers suddenly screaming
               | at them and not being able to see the source of their
               | anger.
               | 
               | Some people do this as a "preventative measure", so that
               | their post still makes sense when the original tweet is
               | deleted.
        
               | raydev wrote:
               | > Blocking doesn't really fix the brigading problem
               | 
               | Automated blocking absolutely solved most of the problem.
               | In the late 2010s it was common for political accounts to
               | use scripts that went through follower graphs for their
               | worst repliers and blocked everyone, or went through the
               | list of people liking a certain tweet and blocked all
               | those accounts.
               | 
               | They were quite fond of that approach and were happy with
               | the outcome pre-Elon. Even if someone in the "bad group"
               | screenshotted a tweet from their target to make fun of
               | it, the target didn't really get bothered by it because
               | they walled themselves well enough. The screenshotter is
               | incentivized to not interact with their target so they
               | don't get blocked again, and no one excited by all the
               | dunking cared enough to go harass the target anyway.
               | 
               | Now as someone who found themselves in a few blockchains
               | during peak Bernie-mania, I like the proposed change.
               | I've been blocked by several popular accounts because of
               | who I followed, and I will enjoy being able to reliably
               | read someone's content even if I'm not allowed to
               | interact.
        
             | dotnet00 wrote:
             | Not to mention people attempting to slander others behind a
             | block (so the person being slandered has no idea until the
             | damage is already done), or temporarily unblocking to say
             | something to someone, and then blocking again.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > Not to mention people attempting to slander others
               | behind a block (so the person being slandered has no idea
               | until the damage is already done)
               | 
               | I saw someone once post about their outrage over the
               | practice of criticizing someone on Twitter without
               | tagging the person you're criticizing in your tweet.
               | ("Subtweeting.") Apparently the thinking goes that if
               | anyone anywhere says something about you, you have the
               | right to be notified.
        
               | dotnet00 wrote:
               | I'd argue that it really depends on the kind of
               | criticism. What I had in mind was more along the lines of
               | accusing someone of wrongdoing rather than just
               | criticizing them.
               | 
               | I think tagging someone when you're accusing them of
               | wrongdoing is the fair thing to do, considering how
               | quickly that sort of thing can whip others into a frenzy.
               | I see a lot of this sort of thing, where someone will
               | accuse someone of heinous things like pedophilia from
               | behind a block, and by the time the person being accused
               | understands what's going on, they're being hounded by
               | people who get off to drama about why they haven't denied
               | the accusations yet.
               | 
               | On the other hand, tagging when simply criticizing
               | someone often feels like attention-seeking to me. I see
               | this a lot with space stuff, where someone will offer
               | (often completely ignorant) criticism, while pinging
               | Musk, Bezos and/or other figures in the space discussion
               | community.
        
           | Nuzzerino wrote:
           | No it doesn't. The people who are malicious about it will be
           | using multiple accounts. The block button doesn't stop them.
           | If anything, it provides them ammunition to go "See, this
           | person is a sensitive one, let's add them to the list".
           | 
           | Either your posts are public or they're not. There's a pretty
           | clear distinction between the two, and anyone who thinks
           | otherwise is sorely mistaken. The risk of people re-posting
           | your content is a natural consequence of your aspirations to
           | be popular on social media, and we shouldn't be giving people
           | a false sense of security.
        
             | chomp wrote:
             | Yes it does and I can tell that you have never been piled
             | on by followers of large accounts. Blocks aren't perfect
             | but they make a huge difference.
        
             | dtjb wrote:
             | Blocks are (were) an easy line of defense for most of the
             | lazy trolling. People could get around it but few bothered.
             | 
             | It might have not been ideologically consistent but it was
             | effective.
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | > The block button doesn't stop them.
             | 
             | No and nobody claimed it does. Making it just a bit harder
             | and making the other party jump through an extra hoop
             | reduces it though. The extra friction has been implemented
             | on many platforms and it works. Instagram adds friction in
             | a different way, but also claims it has a positive result:
             | https://builtin.com/software-engineering-perspectives/key-
             | be...
             | 
             | You can also see people migrating to other platforms who
             | raise the lack of search / being easily found as a feature.
             | It's not black and white and it's not public or not.
             | There's a whole range of how accessible your content is to
             | parties who will attack you.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | But the point is you can't see these posts from a particular
         | account. It makes interaction between the two accounts a bit
         | more difficult and so a bit less likely.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | But interaction between accounts is still not possible?
        
             | thih9 wrote:
             | Yes, the article says "engagements are still not allowed
             | under blocks". Then again, interaction in the general sense
             | can still happen (you can always take a screenshot and post
             | that).
        
             | michaelteter wrote:
             | The blocked person can obviously create a new account and
             | bypass that block to some degree, but as other have
             | mentioned it will prevent them from reposting on their main
             | account
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | Unless they do a screenshot. Not a big deterrent.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | A well behaved blocked person will honor the restriction but
         | this only antagonizes the unhinged who usually have multiple
         | accounts.
         | 
         | Something that less aggravates people prone to bad behavior is
         | the right move.
        
         | steinuil wrote:
         | To be fair, you can barely view any post while unauthenticated
         | these days. Sometimes I click on a link to a tweet on my work
         | laptop (where I'm not authenticated) and I get immediately
         | assaulted by several pop-ups and cookie bars and redirected to
         | the landing page when try to dismiss them.
        
           | teruakohatu wrote:
           | I have given up trying to view content unauthenticated, I
           | used to be able to close the popups but now I get redirected
           | to a login when I do.
        
             | sionisrecur wrote:
             | You can insert "cancel" between "x" and ".com"
        
         | bluescrn wrote:
         | AFAIK, you can't view any tweets unless logged in these days.
         | But the sort of user being frequently blocked likely has
         | multiple accounts anyway.
        
           | jdminhbg wrote:
           | > AFAIK, you can't view any tweets unless logged in these
           | days
           | 
           | You can view a single tweet, but it won't display a thread
           | for you unless you log in.
        
             | wepple wrote:
             | There does seem to be an exception for public outlets.
             | 
             | I clicked a link to NYPDs twitter and didn't have to AuthN.
             | Makes sense too; every org who wanted their content to be
             | fully available to anyone would leave if twitter mandated
             | login
             | 
             | (Although they still use Facebook)
        
               | hypeatei wrote:
               | > every org who wanted their content to be fully
               | available...
               | 
               | Every single public account I've visited still has the
               | feed in non-chronological order which instantly makes it
               | useless to me. I don't care about a post from my city
               | government in 2019.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | In theory you can't see any tweets at all, because they're
           | now just "posts".
           | 
           | But everybody still calls them "tweets" because it was an
           | amazing bit of branding.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | I thought so too, but also fun to see people posting they've
         | been blocked by person they're debating... well arguing with,
         | whether the blocked deserved it because they're being an ass,
         | or whether the blocker was simply thin skinned. I think the
         | latter, seeing people rage quit because they can't rationalize
         | their position, is actually pretty useful signal.
        
         | ihuman wrote:
         | The old blocking also stopped your posts from appearing in
         | their "for you" timeline. The new blocking doesn't.
        
         | avree wrote:
         | Reddit's implementation is even worse. It breaks all sorts of
         | commenting/replying even down the comment chain, if anyone in
         | the parent is blocked. And, the mobile app shows no usable
         | errors. But, you can log out, or even make a second account,
         | and see everything.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | The restriction isn't on them seeing your posts. It's on you
         | seeing their posts. If you don't want them to see your posts,
         | Twitter provides that functionality too. It just isn't called
         | "blocking".
        
       | klntsky wrote:
       | It makes sense. Hiding info that is available when you log in as
       | someone else doesn't
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | Sure it does. Very few people are going to obsessively look
         | over every person's twitter account using multiple logins to
         | check and see if that account maybe posted something that is
         | being hidden from them.
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | This is technically the better option as it doesn't indicate via
       | sidechannel that someone has blocked you.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | You still can't interact with them, do you know you're blocked.
        
           | sionisrecur wrote:
           | Once upon a time, you could interact with someone using
           | "@nickname ..." or retweet them using "RE: @nickname: ...".
        
         | robertclaus wrote:
         | I assume it still blocks actions when someone tries to interact
         | with the user, so the fact that they're blocked isn't a secret.
         | It seems like more of a convenience feature for the person who
         | got blocked (since they would otherwise need to log out), which
         | is an odd direction to push a product.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | Logging out doesn't work anymore. They would need to make an
           | alt account.
        
             | danudey wrote:
             | So since abusers, stalkers, and harassers can't just log
             | out to view the blocker's posts, X is making it so that
             | they can view those posts without logging out or changing
             | to an alt account. That makes it a lot more convenient for
             | people who were already blocked for bad behavior to get mad
             | at what someone posted.
             | 
             | Sounds like they're catering to the kinds of people who
             | would normally have gotten around blocks by using private
             | browsing.
        
         | adastra22 wrote:
         | It defeats the whole point of blocking as a safety mechanism
         | against stalking, harassment, and mob dog piling behavior.
         | 
         | Once again, Elon utterly fails to understand the service he
         | bought.
        
           | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
           | If anything, it highlights that public posts are just that,
           | public.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | Given that I can't easily the post (and certainly can't
             | follow a thread) without a login, is it really public? It's
             | deliberately obfuscated at the very least.
        
           | WithinReason wrote:
           | You can see public posts if you just use a private window,
           | that's why they are public.
        
             | arielcostas wrote:
             | That was always the case until they started requiring to be
             | logged in to see anything
        
               | nickthegreek wrote:
               | Its not everything, just almost everything. You don't
               | need to be logged in to view a tweet from a direct link.
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | In some cases yes you do. It depends on how the account
               | is flagged, I'm not sure what the flag is, but valid
               | links can and do return a 404 if you're not logged in.
               | 
               | You also can't view replies or context for individual
               | tweets, which makes seeing one tweet next to useless.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | Only if you create a different account and login with that.
             | The point though is how would you even know to look?
        
               | jdminhbg wrote:
               | You know to look because you see a QT or reply and where
               | the original tweet would be, there's a message about how
               | you can't see the tweet. It's been like that forever.
        
           | serial_dev wrote:
           | Yeah, right... blocking has never helped with any of those.
        
         | blablabla123 wrote:
         | Isn't there always a sidechannel in a social network?
         | 
         | Even if it doesn't fully block, it makes stalking etc. more
         | annoying.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | An alternative to present a never ending loading screen to
         | users who got blocked, making "access denied because someone
         | blocked you" indistinguishable from regular infrastructure
         | failures.
         | 
         | Twitter may be doing something like that already, where some
         | old links will result in "Hmm...this page doesn't exist. Try
         | searching for something else.", even though the same link is
         | visible via a Nitter proxy.
        
       | drivingmenuts wrote:
       | It's starting to look like Xitter is asking itself "What would
       | benefit users??" and then doing the exact opposite
       | 
       | Or , they're trying to drive aways users.
       | 
       | Or both.
       | 
       | Elon has lost the thread.
        
         | malikNF wrote:
         | What thread has Elon lost really? When Elon bought twitter
         | there was a huge wave of people and the media telling us it was
         | over in 6 months, when Elon fired staff they told us X would go
         | down forever in a few months.
         | 
         | Under Elon imo X has gotten a lot better, I see more content
         | that relates to me and has since found myself using X more than
         | all the other social media platforms combined.
         | 
         | Blocking content makes no sense on a platform like X, if you
         | block me and I still want to read your posts all I have to do
         | is to make another account and read them. This just gets rid of
         | the friction. If I block someone I just don't want to interact
         | with them, I still want them to see me and my friends have fun.
        
           | qiqitori wrote:
           | > I see more content that relates to me and has since found
           | myself using X more than all the other social media platforms
           | combined.
           | 
           | You do know that you shouldn't be looking at stuff it's
           | recommending to you, right? Think of something you'd like to
           | know more about and then look it up yourself.
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | And why not? What's your authority on the subject? From
             | here, it looks like more internet arguments. I mean, I
             | don't use twitter at all. I've never understood the UI. But
             | if you like what it's recommending, why should I believe
             | your assertion that I "shouldn't" be looking at it?
        
           | johnnyanmac wrote:
           | >This just gets rid of the friction.
           | 
           | that's the issue. Look at clickthrough rates and see how much
           | one extra click can cut down on engagement. You want to de-
           | escalate something, or at least try to.
           | 
           | > If I block someone I just don't want to interact with them,
           | I still want them to see me and my friends have fun.
           | 
           | I agree they should have added an ignore feature as well as
           | block. Different approaches for each individual.
        
           | raducu wrote:
           | > I see more content that relates to me
           | 
           | Or stuff you interacted with in sort-of click bait way.
           | That's why I'm using the block functionality so much on X. A
           | couple of blocks a day keeps the rusobot content way. If only
           | I could get rid of of OF girls following me or violent
           | content in the same way, that would be great.
        
           | daghamm wrote:
           | "What thread has Elon lost really?"
           | 
           | About $42B.
           | 
           | I don't think X has gotten any better, if anything it is
           | overrun by bots and crazy conspiracy theorists now. In
           | addition, Elon has been engaging in soft-censoring people he
           | doesn't like while amplifying those he likes.
        
           | TMWNN wrote:
           | >What thread has Elon lost really? When Elon bought twitter
           | there was a huge wave of people and the media telling us it
           | was over in 6 months, when Elon fired staff they told us X
           | would go down forever in a few months.
           | 
           | Indeed. According to the media and on Reddit, since Musk
           | bought Twitter, Mastodon, Bluesky and Threads have
           | collectively gained 70 bazillion users on seventeen different
           | occasions, and have caused Twitter to collapse and disappear
           | eleven times.
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | Sounds entirely reasonable. You post something in public it is
       | public. Blocking direct interaction is fine, but any expectation
       | that other party cannot see your stuff is just insane. Only
       | absolutely clueless or stupid should have believed that.
       | 
       | If you don't want someone to point out your stupid takes don't
       | make them in public.
        
         | johnnyanmac wrote:
         | >If you don't want someone to point out your stupid takes don't
         | make them in public.
         | 
         | It's usually the other way around for me. I'd rather not have
         | every post about some game I like devolve into a culture war.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | > I'd rather not have every post about some game I like
           | devolve into a culture war.
           | 
           | Then you should probably stop using X altogether.
        
             | johnnyanmac wrote:
             | Oh don't worry, I never commented on the platform. But when
             | it's still the most popular place for indie devs to talk
             | about their stuff I'm still reluctantly forced to at browse
             | around.
        
         | heraldgeezer wrote:
         | >You post something in public it is public
         | 
         | I find that Twitter users somehow misunderstand this.
         | Especially small ones that only interact with themselves,
         | posting misinformation. See a lot of the Palestine Twitter.
         | Then a bigger account comes and comments/corrects or spreads
         | their OWN PUBLIC POST. Then it's an "attack". Its baffling.
        
       | simion314 wrote:
       | I am not an X user, I remember Elon making a lot of noise about
       | bots, did Elon fixed the bot issues? Or all that noise was an
       | attempt to get a discount.
        
         | leftcenterright wrote:
         | from what I have seen, there is definitely a lot of
         | bot/automated content. It feels totally un-moderated at times.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _all that noise was an attempt to get a discount_
         | 
         | Was he complaining about bots before he signed? Genuinely can't
         | remember.
        
           | simion314 wrote:
           | >Was he complaining about bots before he signed? Genuinely
           | can't remember.
           | 
           | I can't google it for you, so from my memory , he complained
           | that he was tricked by Twitter because a large number of
           | users are bots , and then he promised that he will fix this
           | issue after he get's the control. Probably bots and trolls
           | are good for business since other social media like reddit
           | are also making super easy to create tons of bot/troll
           | accounts and spam the network.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _he complained that he was tricked by Twitter because a
             | large number of users are bots , and then he promised that
             | he will fix this issue after he get 's the control_
             | 
             | How making a noise about it after the price is agreed be
             | "an attempt to get a discount"? If anything, it was an
             | attempt to get out of the deal.
             | 
             | (And if I remember correctly, the argument failed because
             | he _had_ been complaining about bots prior to signing.
             | Either way, has nothing to do with discounts.)
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | As I said, it was from my memory, so do you think Elon
               | wants more or less bots now?
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | The latter. Bots massively increased under Elon. I don't know
         | why anyone wants to use this dumpster fire of a site. I don't.
         | 
         | I guarantee this move is because too many people blocked Elon.
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | botters seemed to take everything as a challenge. The only
         | thing that has changed is that legitimate operators are paying
         | more.
        
       | xiphias2 wrote:
       | It looks like a reverse of a trend I have seen of people
       | understading the details of selectively hiding information from
       | others and using it for manipulation.
       | 
       | ,,Show to group of people except X'' is manipulative behaviour
       | (instead of kicking out the person from the group, or in this
       | case not sharing publicly what's not public).
       | 
       | On instagram I have seen a lot of these things, for example
       | posts, stories, archived stories all have different very strange
       | behaviours that only people to take the time to understand (more
       | manipulative people) use, which makes people more manipulative in
       | itself.
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | Good. Blocking is unidirectional, you prevent yourself from
       | seeing the other person's posts. It should not be bidirectional,
       | as this informs the other person that you have blocked them.
       | 
       | Reddit implements blocking as bidirectional, and even tells you
       | (using coded language such as "deleted" and "unavailable") that
       | there is a post in the thread from a person who has blocked you,
       | and includes a permalink to that post. The permalink can be
       | loaded in private browsing mode, and you can see the post from
       | the person who has blocked you. (Make sure you load the Reddit
       | front page first, otherwise Reddit assumes you're an AI
       | harvesting spider and auto-blocks you from the site)
        
         | heraldgeezer wrote:
         | > Blocking is unidirectional, you prevent yourself from seeing
         | the other person's posts. It should not be bidirectional, as
         | this informs the other person that you have blocked them.
         | 
         | I agree, this is how Discord does it INSIDE SERVERS. Not sure
         | why you are downvoted but like on Reddit and HN people just
         | downvote what they do not like.
        
       | h1fra wrote:
       | Hiding your posts from abusers is a legitimate use case because
       | most people (emphasis on most) won't bother to go on private
       | browsing every day just to be annoying.
        
         | bitshiftfaced wrote:
         | There's an argument here that the previous blocking behavior
         | might give users a false sense of security. In reality, you
         | should not post any information publicly that you wouldn't want
         | someone in particular to read, even if you've blocked that
         | person.
        
         | jdminhbg wrote:
         | They still have to go on private browsing to be annoying,
         | because blocking still prevents interacting with you.
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | This is just one more example of Twitter going out of their way
       | to work against the best interests of their users. As twitter
       | continues to treat its userbase like a controlling/abusive spouse
       | I hope more and more people realize that they deserve better and
       | leave.
        
         | heraldgeezer wrote:
         | >This is just one more example of Twitter going out of their
         | way to work against the best interests of their users.
         | 
         | Why does it matter?
         | 
         | If I block people in a Discord server THEY can still see what I
         | type. Why does it matter? I have really come to understand that
         | some Twitter users see Twitter as their own private garden
         | somehow and do not realize that anyone can see your posts... So
         | somehow it becomes uncomfortable when they are reminded of this
         | fact.
        
           | yifanl wrote:
           | Are you seriously asking why you shouldn't make users
           | uncomfortable with your product?
        
       | jdminhbg wrote:
       | Lots of speculation about the motive in here, but isn't the
       | simplest answer (not necessarily the correct one) that it saves
       | billions of DB joins per day? I don't think Elon has made a
       | Twitter decision yet that would have made it more rather than
       | less expensive to run.
        
         | dragonelite wrote:
         | That was my speculation also on why he disabled seeing who also
         | liked a post. Im sure it saves a lot in compute and bandwidth.
        
           | gkoberger wrote:
           | This wasn't about money either. This was him wanting users to
           | be able to boost reprehensible content without having to put
           | their names on it.
           | 
           | He sees this as an antidote to cancel culture; he's allowing
           | people to support things they agree with without society's
           | repercussions.
        
         | gkoberger wrote:
         | The simplest answer is that Elon is blocked by a lot of people,
         | as are many people whose voices he wants heard, and believes
         | that it goes against his flavor of "free speech".
         | 
         | He's been unblocking himself over the years, and this feels
         | like the next logical step for him.
         | 
         | I think its simple... a lot of people have blocked Elon, so
         | Elon thinks blocking is bad.
        
           | jdminhbg wrote:
           | That simple answer is wrong, because the changes don't make
           | it so that people who blocked Elon see Elon's posts now.
        
             | a0123 wrote:
             | Have you not paid attention to twitter since he bought it?
             | 
             | The guy has been forcing his accounts and shit takes onto
             | everyone's timelines.
             | 
             | Accounts have mysteriously started following his account
             | when they never manually did it.
             | 
             | Muting his account hasn't properly worked since he bought
             | twitter.
             | 
             | It's literally what he's been doing it since day 1 of
             | purchase.
             | 
             | Sorry if that sounds a bit rude, but I'm just baffled by
             | people literally denying reality when it smacks them in the
             | face repeatedly.
        
               | jdminhbg wrote:
               | I'm sorry you're frustrated, but it has nothing to do
               | with this change, which works in the opposite direction.
        
       | dangerwill wrote:
       | My bet for the real reason for this is that it has been widely
       | reported that Twitter artificially boosts Elon's account
       | specifically. Many people noticed when they did this that his
       | posts showed up in their feeds despite them not following his
       | account. I bet this led to a massive wave of people blocking his
       | account (it's as easy to block as it is to mute). And this
       | population of users eventually got big enough for him to notice,
       | and he wants his posts in everyone's feeds again.
        
         | johnnyo wrote:
         | Based on my reading of the article, this change would not start
         | showing you Elon's tweets if you have him blocked.
         | 
         | What it would do is allow Elon's feed to show everyone, and not
         | have holes in it from people who have blocked him.
        
       | cameldrv wrote:
       | Makes sense given the current financials. The way you make money
       | in social media is to get people pissed off and arguing with each
       | other. Preventing someone from seeing things that make them mad
       | is just leaving money on the table that they can't afford
       | anymore.
        
       | fossuser wrote:
       | I'd like to be able to unblock people. An unblock all would be
       | nice to get back to baseline. A while back I blocked everyone
       | that followed a specific user that kept appearing in my feed
       | (this was prior to the musk acquisition where you can view
       | accounts you follow explicitly which is nice).
       | 
       | This was around 50k people (it did make a noticeable difference).
       | The unblock is broken though - I was able to unblock maybe 1k,
       | but now it lists nothing and it's impossible to unblock any
       | others.
       | 
       | As is I just do it occasionally when I see a blocked account
       | appear in a reply.
        
         | OrigamiPastrami wrote:
         | You blocked 50k people? Don't you have to block people one by
         | one? How did you even do this?
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | You could upload blocklists.
        
           | fossuser wrote:
           | There were API endpoints that worked at some point, made it
           | easy to do.
        
         | motohagiography wrote:
         | when I used it instead of block lists I filtered based on
         | emojis and that got rid of most of the noise. I left X because
         | either I couldn't escape my filter bubble in spite of following
         | some very diverse accounts, or people on it were really just
         | that mid.
         | 
         | it's optimized for engagement, so what you "like," and what
         | keeps you there are probably not the same things. we complain
         | about slop now, but the algos were the original slop, the
         | future was here it just wasn't evenly distributed.
        
           | fossuser wrote:
           | I think X is still really great and it's even better now that
           | you can finally pay to have no ads (and verified means
           | verified instead of 'friends of a twitter employee'.
           | 
           | It does require some effort to curate a worthwhile feed
           | though (and you have to be mindful to not get sucked into
           | junk/avoid the for you tab).
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Should you be able to repost something from someone who blocked
       | you?
       | 
       | The other feature was mute. I guess that is not necessary
       | anymore.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | I guess Musk wants everyone to see the posts from people they
       | blocked for their political views prior to the US election.
       | 
       | Is there any scenario where this is a good idea?
        
       | stevebmark wrote:
       | Content moderation and visibility is a much more interesting
       | question and space in BlueSky/ATmosphere. It's hard to care about
       | the Twitter nonsense now.
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | this move will surely regain the 80% of the value twitter has
       | lost, masterful gambit sir!
        
       | dathinab wrote:
       | Musk hobby: 101 about how to make a toxic site even more toxic
       | while bearly not breaking law and making law makers wonder if
       | they should make stricter laws
        
       | dwoldrich wrote:
       | I wonder how long until X is profitable, and I worry my Elon-
       | hating friend will lose his mind when it happens.
       | 
       | The hatred for Elon and Twitter/X, etc took me completely off
       | guard the same way "Kids in Cages" did. I thought, "Where is all
       | this spitting rage for Elon coming from? I thought he was the
       | green energy guy, SpaceX is so cool."
       | 
       | I'd love to know where the "Kids in Cages" OP got started and
       | where the evacuate to Mastadon movement was popularized. I feel
       | like it's somewhere on Reddit.
        
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