[HN Gopher] Major Toronto Utility Company Stores Customers' Pass...
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       Major Toronto Utility Company Stores Customers' Passwords in Plain
       Text
        
       Author : oneturkmen
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-09-23 21:48 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | 486sx33 wrote:
       | This is bad for anyone who recycles passwords. Most everyone I
       | guess.
       | 
       | I'm sure they aren't the only company to do so
       | 
       | I don't think having an online account with your utility provider
       | is required or smart. Good old postal mail is the way.
        
         | pinkmuffinere wrote:
         | Paying by checks through the mail is so annoying and difficult
         | to stay on top of. I can't understand how you would prefer that
         | approach in general -- is there some strategy here that I'm
         | missing? Or is it that you open mail always immediately when
         | you receive it, and minimize changes in address / vacations?
         | 
         | My strategy is to have a "disposable" password that you use for
         | low-value purposes, like paying utilities. I assume this
         | password is public knowledge, and accept that if somebody has
         | it they can do such nefarious things as... pay my utilities
         | bill.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | My guess as to what OP means: postal mail, as in, mail me my
           | bill. And then pay electronically through your bank, not the
           | company's online portal. At least that's the way I do it.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Do you really want to bank on your utility to have their shit
           | figured out so you don't pay the utility bill for your whole
           | town? Even if you do entirely get it resolved, that seems
           | like extra hassle when you could just... use a password
           | manager.
        
             | pinkmuffinere wrote:
             | That's fair, a password manager would be a good (and likely
             | better) alternative. The only reasons I haven't made the
             | switch:
             | 
             | 1. Even password managers are unreliable, and I don't like
             | the idea of storing _all_ my passwords with a single
             | service which may be hacked. I suppose I could just store a
             | subset of my passwords, but that eliminates a lot of the
             | convenience
             | 
             | 2. Even at its most convenient, I still find password
             | managers somewhat annoying. Copy-pasting is disabled on
             | many login forms, so I often would have to manually type an
             | unfamiliar password. And when I'm not using my personal
             | laptop I have to "log in twice" to complete a single
             | intended login - this has historically been fairly common
             | for me, though maybe less common recently
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | Great. Now all I need is someone to hack my account and pay my
       | electricity bill for me.
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | I think the vector I'd be more worried about here is that
         | someone does a database dump of usernames & passwords, and then
         | proceeds to use that data for credential stuffing. The hygenie
         | of users being on average probably "not great", that would
         | probably lead to subsequent compromise down the line, of things
         | more valuable than the electric company's account.
         | 
         | But, IDK, if they're storing passwords in the clear --
         | something so trivial to get right, and so obviously not best
         | practice -- I'd also be wondering if the user's bank account
         | routing & account numbers aren't in that same database
         | table...? I can imagine some damage from that.
        
       | thrill wrote:
       | This should be a criminal offense at this point.
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Who are you prosecuting?
        
           | gleenn wrote:
           | I believe they're suggesting the people storing the plaintext
           | passwords. Who else would it be?
        
             | hooverd wrote:
             | I guess there's no one person to hold accountable. They
             | probably just get a small fine and move on.
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | The thing is probably running on decades-old code that makes
       | common security practices (like storing only salted hashes of
       | passwords) hard.
       | 
       | I wouldn't be surprised if there's code in there written in old-
       | style mainframe COBOL or even (gasp) RPG.
       | 
       | Sigh.
        
       | CamelCaseName wrote:
       | Toronto Hydro isn't just "a major utility company"
       | 
       | It is entirely government owned and the largest electricity
       | provider in the province.
        
         | ojbyrne wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | ckcheng wrote:
       | There was this alleged Alberta AHS privacy breach:
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/alberta/comments/1c7lk3z/ahs_privac...
       | 
       | Don't know if that went anywhere... anyone know?
        
       | Me000 wrote:
       | Why is this a big deal? Hiring a contractor is 100% more insecure
       | than this. I'm not recommending you do it, but it's basically
       | just people celebrating they now how to do this, but it's
       | actually never been exploited once in human history. Yet big
       | brain security people trust contractors to write code and nobody
       | bats an eye.
        
         | er4hn wrote:
         | This is an attack called "credential stuffing" and the OWASP
         | page for it has multiple examples of it being used in the real
         | world: https://owasp.org/www-
         | community/attacks/Credential_stuffing .
        
       | hooverd wrote:
       | I wonder if they in-housed this or paid some external contractor
       | obscene amounts of money for it?
        
       | iinnPP wrote:
       | This is a misunderstanding. The CS agent has access to a
       | plaintext (security question) password that can be used under
       | special circumstances. It must be readable to function.
        
         | Ladyady wrote:
         | Nice try, Toronto Hydro
        
           | iinnPP wrote:
           | I made no such claim. I merely have knowledge of the exact
           | system in question.
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Which really should not be the same!
        
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