[HN Gopher] Desktop Windowing on Android Tablets
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Desktop Windowing on Android Tablets
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2024-09-22 19:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (android-developers.googleblog.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (android-developers.googleblog.com)
        
       | exe34 wrote:
       | wow what a revolutionary idea!
        
       | jjice wrote:
       | I'm a full desktop OS kind of person, but even just enabling
       | windowing on a tablet OS makes it feel like so much more of a
       | full OS. The idea of having your browser and a notes app in a
       | configuration that isn't a forced hard split is a massive win.
        
         | justmarc wrote:
         | There is quite simply an incredible amount of productivity that
         | can be extracted from a speedy, full sized laptop or desktop
         | that smaller screen devices are not likely to reach no matter
         | what fancy features they come up with.
         | 
         | What I can do in seconds on a fast, responsive, non-bogged down
         | modern laptop can take orders of magnitude longer to accomplish
         | on a tablet. Tablets surely have their uses, but high paced
         | productivity is not one of them.
        
       | analog31 wrote:
       | My spouse and I recently got identical Lenovo tablets. I got mine
       | for reading sheet music, but of course can't pass up the chance
       | to see how close it gets to being a laptop replacement. It's the
       | first device that was close enough to leave my laptop at home on
       | a recent trip... and travel 2 pounds lighter.
       | 
       | Don't know if it's unique to Lenovo or part of Android in
       | general, but these tablets do support the windowing feature. It's
       | Android 13.
        
         | tredre3 wrote:
         | > Don't know if it's unique to Lenovo or part of Android in
         | general
         | 
         | So-called Productivity Mode is a Lenovo thing and I agree it's
         | actually decent. I know that Android has some windowing support
         | built-in but it's basically unusable (hence why this
         | announcement is good news).
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | You've always been able to do split screen (i.e. 50/50, 25/75
         | etc but not floating windows) even on phones, FWIW.
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | Lenovo tablets have split screen, floating windows over
           | fullscreen applications, and the option to put all
           | applications into windows kind of like in the post.
           | 
           | Though admittedly split screen is the most useful of those
        
           | KeplerBoy wrote:
           | Always is a bit of a stretch. The split screen feature came
           | with Android 7 in 2016.
        
         | kmarc wrote:
         | Wait until you try Samsung's Dex. It could replace my Linux
         | laptop, with my tmux/vim dot files environment
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | Now if DeX would actually be _performant_... unfortunately
           | Samsung just loves putting dogshit SoCs and flash into
           | anything that is _not_ the Galaxy Phone lineup, not to
           | mention their own pre-installed bloatware and general Android
           | bloatification causing further performance issues.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | > Now if DeX would actually be performant
             | 
             | Well, that all depends on what you were expecting. It works
             | about as well as I figured it would (including the pre-
             | installed bloatware), so in my eyes, it's performant.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | How big are the tablets? For me only the 13" iPad works because
         | it's my only option for full size. But my eyesight is
         | defective.
        
           | analog31 wrote:
           | Ours are 11 inch. To make matters worse, the aspect ratio is
           | 5:3, meaning that typical sheet music (based on 8.5x11 paper)
           | uses only part of the screen.
           | 
           | I'm a jazz bassist, so I'm mostly reading chord symbols when
           | not just playing from memory. Having the sheets on stage lets
           | me consult rehearsal markings and jog my memory as needed.
           | Sometimes it stays in my bag, or at the edge of the stage,
           | until I need it.
           | 
           | The one band I play in that has more complicated charts is
           | entirely paper based, and will be for the foreseeable future.
           | My kids both play classical, and they have 13" iPads --
           | there's pretty much no avoiding it nowadays. But after
           | shelling out for them, I decided that I didn't need that much
           | technology.
        
             | tomcam wrote:
             | Thanks for the reply.
             | 
             | I don't understand the downvotes. I am always baffled when
             | statements are downvoted.
        
               | analog31 wrote:
               | Probably for being a jazz bassist. I'll just threaten to
               | play a solo if they downvote me again. ;-)
        
         | ntac wrote:
         | I did the same thing - replaced my laptop with a tablet for a
         | trip. Lenovo P12. It I thought the windowing was great.
         | 
         | The whole experience would have been great, except for one
         | thing which made it unusable for my purposes. Android has that
         | clipboard editor popup that can't be disabled. When using Emacs
         | within Termux, every time I hit ctrl-k, I got that damn popup
         | which blocked a significant amount of the screen for ~10
         | seconds.
        
       | JoshTriplett wrote:
       | I hope that this works on foldable phones, as well.
        
         | nishant098 wrote:
         | Its phone hack
        
       | idle_zealot wrote:
       | What a disappointment. They had freeform mode as a dev option for
       | years, but avoided pushing it as a supported feature. I assumed
       | this was because it _fucking sucked_. I 've tried it. Freeform,
       | desktop-like windows on an 11 inch tablet are simply terrible for
       | multitasking. But no, here they are, releasing the feature with
       | no meaningful changes. The state of tablet multitasking is a
       | travesty, but neither Google nor Apple seem interested in fixing
       | it in any way other than a shitty reproduction of clunky desktop
       | windowing. How about letting us tile more than two windows
       | together? How about letting us stack apps into tabbed panes? How
       | about a sliding environment like PaperWM? Just off the top of my
       | head, any one of those is more likely to increase tablet
       | productivity than "here's a bunch of rectangles; you wrangle
       | them!"
        
         | gedy wrote:
         | Sure, but I'm one of the kooks who will plug a tablet into a
         | monitor and use keyboard and mouse. Seems handy for that.
        
           | idle_zealot wrote:
           | Even in that case it's pretty weak. It lacks
           | workspaces/spaces that desktop OSes have these days, and
           | isn't extensible the way Win/Mac/Linux desktops are.
        
             | tannhaeuser wrote:
             | I guess I'm not really understanding what you're
             | complaining about. Why not use a desktop OS then in the
             | first place? MS Surface Go 11 tablets have been selling for
             | like ten years now, and so have "convertibles"/2-in-1's.
        
       | kccqzy wrote:
       | I tried out Apple's implementation of desktop windowing on
       | tablets called Stage Manager with a borrowed iPad. It's still not
       | a real replacement for actual laptops. Sure you get multiple
       | windows, but switching between them it still inconvenient: you
       | don't have Command-Tab or Command-` like on a Mac. All window
       | manipulations have to be done with fingers touching the screen. I
       | end up believing a real desktop windowing system is still
       | superior.
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | Other weaknesses of Stage Manager aside, iPad has command-tab
         | and other keyboard shortcuts. You do actually need a keyboard
         | attached though -- otherwise, well duh, of course all
         | manipulation has to be done with fingers.
        
         | neilalexander wrote:
         | Stage Manager is disappointingly over-engineered. Managing the
         | workspaces is much more mentally taxing than having windows
         | just fade into the background, every new app somehow always
         | seems to open up at the wrong size and then annoyingly takes
         | everything else off-screen with it. I am a heavy iPad user but
         | Stage Manager is rarely useful for me.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | I was very disappointed with it as well. doesn't work as well
         | as a windows 95 computer window management.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | > you don't have Command-Tab
         | 
         | Yes, you do. There's a pretty extensive set of keyboard
         | shortcuts, actually.
        
       | rock_artist wrote:
       | Android Stage Manager...
       | 
       | I do know similar window managers for Android existed in the past
       | and Samsung still got their Dex but making it official
       | emphasizing the responsiveness reminded me a lot of stage manager
       | which Apple decided to make available only for the expensive
       | iPads.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | Congratulations Android, you've successfully recapitulated the
       | evolution to desktop windowing. Took you only 15 years!
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | > If you don't have a Pixel Tablet handy, access the Pixel Tablet
       | emulator in Android Studio Preview, and select the Android 15.0
       | (Google APIs Tablet) target. Once your device is set up, select
       | Enable freeform windows option in Developer options to explore
       | the capabilities of desktop windowing and how your app behaves
       | within this new environment.
       | 
       | I noticed this last year on Android 13, and I found it a bit
       | unusable on an 8.4'' tablet and useless on a phone. But i think
       | it has less features in Android 13/14, as the management
       | (maximize/restore) looks a bit different on 15.
       | 
       | It still looks like it doesn't have a minimize icon (also not
       | when maximized), which for me is essential in a desktop
       | environment.
        
         | yonisto wrote:
         | Pixel Tablet is the biggest let down I have ever had from a
         | product (SW + HW combination) mine has so many bugs, so many
         | unnecessary changes from previous versions. I don't understand
         | how a company can release such a bad product after so many
         | iterations.
        
           | entropie wrote:
           | > mine has so many bugs
           | 
           | What bugs? I have mine for like 3 month and its probably the
           | best expierence I had on any android device over the last
           | dekade. Everything works so well and smooth.
           | 
           | The only thing i critize is that the dock is not USB-C
           | powered (so I could relocate it in the kitchen to watch stuff
           | while cooking).
        
       | drcode wrote:
       | Google in 2057:
       | 
       | "We're excited to announce that Android Tablets now have a
       | terminal, with full support of terminal applications like 'ed'
       | and 'grep'!"
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | I mean, termux is a thing. Although, having it officially
         | supported instead of Google constantly trying to break it would
         | be great.
        
           | surajrmal wrote:
           | Your wording makes it sound like you think Google out of its
           | way to break termux. What makes you believe that? Its
           | execution model is at odds with the security model Android
           | pushes for so of course it'll come with some challenges. It
           | tries to provide an environment suitable for a legacy
           | application model that doesn't really take security as
           | seriously. The only real way to win here is by using a VM
           | which is what ChromeOS did. That allows sufficient isolation
           | such that it need not try to force something to work in an
           | environment not built for it.
        
             | AshamedCaptain wrote:
             | > It tries to provide an environment suitable for a legacy
             | application model that doesn't really take security as
             | seriously.
             | 
             | Erm... what?
             | 
             | > The only real way to win here is by using a VM which is
             | what ChromeOS did.
             | 
             | What advantage would the VM provide, other than the host OS
             | having even less insight into what the application is
             | doing?
             | 
             | (Which is, by the way, exactly the only reason Android is
             | introducing VMs: hiding stuff from the host Android)
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | That's not the reason. The host android has full access
               | to the child VMs; the VM can't hide anything from the
               | hypervisor. It's about isolation. The child VM can't leak
               | your photos or contact list if it doesn't have it in the
               | first place, and sticking things into their own VM
               | provides an additional layer of isolation beyond what
               | exists currently.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | I don't think that's true; my recollection, which appears
               | to match https://source.android.com/docs/core/virtualizat
               | ion/architec... , is that Android uses hardware support
               | to run VMs that even the host kernel can't actually see
               | into.
        
             | wiseowise wrote:
             | > Your wording makes it sound like you think Google out of
             | its way to break termux. What makes you believe that?
             | 
             | They sure as hell don't go out of their way to help keep it
             | running.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | On the one hand, no, I don't think there's some whiteboard
             | inside Google titled "master plan to make Termux stop
             | working". On the other hand... so you know how on iOS,
             | Apple has a policy of disallowing apps to have their own
             | JIT? It probably _does_ make the system more secure (JIT
             | engines are historically a good place to find
             | vulnerabilities), but it does so by prohibiting valid
             | behavior and preventing entire classes of apps from
             | existing. I 'm on Android specifically because I don't
             | think that's reasonable, so no, I'm not really cool with
             | Google trying to rule out running Linux programs on a Linux
             | distro (Android is a weird Linux distro, but it still is
             | one). And a VM does help with security, but it also isn't a
             | general solution; there are perfectly valid usecases that
             | termux can do that a VM would either make needlessly
             | difficult (little things like "open files" or "listen on a
             | port") or impossible (get a root shell and invoke
             | /system/bin/input for automation).
        
         | justmarc wrote:
         | "And select models of Android tablet now ship with a built in
         | hardware keyboard that is an integral part of the tablet body."
        
           | poisonborz wrote:
           | That is called a 2in1 laptop?
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | At least they're trying to view the tablet as a multipurpose
         | PC, as opposed to Apple who believe such things are abhorrent.
        
           | emsy wrote:
           | Imagine the iPad with an actual OS. Unfathomable.
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | We only have to wait for Apple to invent (and appropriately
             | price) the technology for a Bootcamp 2. Until then, it
             | simply cannot be done.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Nobody is asking for that or compatibility with texting
               | Android phones. Just buy your mom an iPhone.
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | Don't read too much into it, it's not about the principle
           | insomuch as its about the efficiency of killing off Chrome OS
           | to merge it into Android, and a continual game of whac-a-mole
           | to woo Samsung execs so they don't put _too_ much investment
           | into software. It 'll work about as well as the years of
           | efforts to get devs to do apps the Google way in time for the
           | Pixel Tablet launch.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | The fact that newer iPads use the exact same silicon as
           | MacBooks is just insult to injury. There's a grown-up
           | computer hidden inside but you're not allowed to use it.
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | I wonder how much of the total BOM on say an ipad pro the
             | cpu really is
        
             | gedy wrote:
             | Talking off the cuff, it feels to me like Apple is
             | trying/tried to hail back to the early days of the Mac
             | where there is no hierarchical file system and "files"
             | concept is minimized in favor of apps that correspond 1:1
             | with a file to edit or view.
             | 
             | I'd say past 40 years proves this model is not what people
             | want, but they are so persistent about not doing a normal
             | file-focused UI that it feels intentional. Like some
             | directive from Steve before he passed.
        
               | andai wrote:
               | I love the iPod as a physical object, but it always hurt
               | not being able to just put files on it. (Not to even
               | mention the "you have to sync and wipe your entire iPod
               | library" situation.)
               | 
               | I ended up putting Rockbox on my iPod Classic, which
               | makes it be what it actually is: an MP3 player! (Alas the
               | UI is not as pleasant, and battery life is worse...)
               | 
               | Similarly I've been so confused about files on my iPhone,
               | whereas on Android I never had any confusion (except on
               | some newer versions where there's both a Documents folder
               | and a Documents "smart view" which are indistinguishable
               | except when you realize nothing makes any sense and you
               | ended up in the screen that's trying to give you an
               | Apple-like files experience for some reason, and then you
               | navigate back to the actual file system and are actually
               | able to find your files...)
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | I actually disagree, I think the success of the iPhone
               | has proven Apple correct that people don't want to deal
               | with "files." Personally I despise it, but as iPhones
               | have become nearly ubiquitous in the US, I can't help but
               | feel the sting of being in a minority group that actually
               | wants a general purpose computer rather than an
               | "appliance"
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | If they let you use it, they'd have to triple the price or
             | everyone would connect a keyboard and mouse and use it like
             | a desktop PC, decimating macbook sales.
             | 
             | I think the limitations are entirely for business strategy
             | reasons, not because they believe there is no demand.
        
               | sbarre wrote:
               | I've been using a Bluetooth mouse and a keyboard with my
               | old 2018 iPad Pro for at least 5 years. It's basically
               | our travel computer when we're on vacation.
               | 
               | In older versions of iPadOS (it might even have just been
               | iOS back then) you had to enable the mouse under
               | Accessibility to make it work, but in current OS versions
               | it "just works"..
               | 
               | You can even cmd-tab between apps and a lot of the
               | keyboard shortcuts you know and love work in most apps.
        
             | andai wrote:
             | A smartphone / tablet is just a computer that's deeply
             | ashamed of its true nature, and going to supreme lengths to
             | hide it.
        
         | wiseowise wrote:
         | Doubt it will ever happen. Not when Android is moving more and
         | more towards Apple model.
        
       | mouse_ wrote:
       | Impressive work, they reinvented the Chromebook
        
       | tholdem wrote:
       | Probably over 90% of what I use my personal laptop for is
       | browsing the web, watching videos, listening to music, and
       | writing notes. In a general purpose OS, I value security above
       | all else. Privacy is a close second, and of course stability,
       | ease of use, resource lightness, and application support are also
       | important factors.
       | 
       | I haven't found a desktop operating system that ticks most of the
       | boxes, especially security and privacy. The only OS that ticks
       | all the boxes is GrapheneOS, but it's not really a desktop OS.
       | That's why I'm so excited about these updates, and why I wish
       | there was either a good keyboard/trackpad case for the Google
       | Pixel Tablet running GrapheneOS, or someone would make a laptop
       | that had the necessary requirements to support GrapheneOS.
       | 
       | I code on my work laptop, and if I really wanted to, I could
       | probably SSH or VNC into a Linux box to code on GrapheneOS. There
       | is also pKVM, which will probably make it easy to run Linux VMs
       | on GrapheneOS at some point in the future.
        
         | GiorgioG wrote:
         | > I haven't found a desktop operating system that ticks most of
         | the boxes, especially security and privacy...That's why I'm so
         | excited about these updates
         | 
         | Android and privacy are not two things that go together.
        
           | nixosbestos wrote:
           | Go on! Substantiate that. From a platform level. Please, I'm
           | very curious.
        
             | nixosbestos wrote:
             | If I had my way every person that downvotes this kind of
             | comment without replying would just be banned.
             | 
             | There's no replies becuase it's utter cargoculted ignorant
             | bullshit.
        
           | tholdem wrote:
           | I am not talking about Google's Android. I am talking about
           | GrapheneOS and in Google's blog post they mention that this
           | is coming to AOSP.
        
         | thebruce87m wrote:
         | Change my view: open source operating systems are bad in
         | practice since good actors rarely audit them but bad actors not
         | only have the usual exploits but also have the keys to the
         | castle.
         | 
         | Edit: guess we're not having a fruitful discussion about this
         | then. Shame.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _Edit: guess we're not having a fruitful discussion about
           | this then. Shame._
           | 
           | When you started with the low-grade trope "Change my view"
           | you already indicated you weren't interested in a discussion,
           | just arguing for the sake of arguing on the internet.
        
             | thebruce87m wrote:
             | I actually wasn't, I was looking for other opinions. I
             | think my view holds merit, but clearly smarter people than
             | me think differently and I wanted to hear their angle.
             | 
             | Thanks for explaining though, I was genuinely confused at
             | the downvotes. Maybe that meme doesn't mean what I thought
             | it did.
        
           | tholdem wrote:
           | Why do you think bad actors "audit" open source more than
           | good actors?
           | 
           | Isn't it more the case that all actors audit all software?
           | Open source just has potentially more "auditors" than closed
           | source?
           | 
           | (I don't understand what you mean by "usual exploits" and
           | "keys to the castle")
        
             | thebruce87m wrote:
             | Usual exploits = using the normal tools to look for buffer
             | overflows and such by attacking the running system and
             | compiled binaries.
             | 
             | Keys to the castle = the ability to also look in the source
             | code for vulnerabilities, run static analysis, fuzzing but
             | also architectural flaws. Basically use extra methods that
             | you can't do on the running system or binaries. You would
             | expect some tools to be run already by the authors but some
             | tools will find things that others don't.
             | 
             | Bad actors have an incentive to audit the code (find
             | vulnerabilities) since they were in the process of
             | attacking the system anyway, so why not look at the source?
             | You also have state level attackers who are getting paid to
             | find these sort of things, and others looking to sell
             | 0-days.
             | 
             | Who are good actors? Who is willing to spend their time
             | finding and fixing bugs? There are definitely people doing
             | it out of the kindness of their heart, and others might be
             | researchers and so on, maybe some companies that use the
             | software - but you are relying on these outnumbering the
             | bad actors.
             | 
             | I think there will always be bad actors, and assuming that
             | there is an army of good actors watching your back might
             | not always be correct. But happy to hear other angles,
             | which is why I opened (and accidentally closed) the
             | conversation.
        
               | tholdem wrote:
               | Good actors do it mostly for money and fame, bad actors
               | do it mostly for money. Both actors do it for open source
               | and closed source software.
               | 
               | Isn't it a good thing that anyone can effectively use
               | tools to check for potential vulnerabilities?
               | 
               | This is just speculation, but I think open source
               | projects may mature faster in terms of security because
               | the low-hanging fruit is maybe found faster than in
               | closed source projects?
               | 
               | Another interesting case I think about a lot is the
               | classic AOSP vs. iOS. Apple tried to sue Corellium for
               | making it easier to research iOS. Then Apple started the
               | Apple Security Research Device program to make it easier
               | for researchers to do iOS research. These two things seem
               | to me to be a kind of involuntary open-sourcing of iOS.
               | Why did Apple see Corellium as a threat and why did they
               | provide researchers with these special devices?
        
       | jsheard wrote:
       | They missed the opportunity to copy Samsung DeXes best party
       | trick, getting a desktop interface on a _phone_ by connecting an
       | external monitor. Maybe next year.
        
         | sprinkly-dust wrote:
         | That feature is available, albeit clunky. The latest Pixel
         | phones have a developer option "Force Desktop Mode" which gives
         | you Desktop-esque Windowing on an external monitor.
        
       | mirsadm wrote:
       | Handling configuration changes for every resize event is
       | horrible. I really dislike Android's design around
       | startup/pause/resume etc of the app.
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | Ah, so basically mobile devices have almost caught up to the
       | Xerox Star?
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | It's funny... all of the windows on my desktop are fullscreen or
       | halfscreen. The only floating windows are transient dialogs.
        
         | smokel wrote:
         | I tend to have another level of nested windows inside
         | applications, also mostly full- or half-screen. It's at that
         | level that sometimes other shapes become interesting, for
         | example for a time slider (long and horizontal), or a list of
         | files (narrow and vertical).
         | 
         | If only the world had evolved into one where operating systems
         | could interact with applications in a way that would allow
         | persistence of window layouts, scripting of user interface
         | elements, and allowing a user to modify application layouts to
         | their own preferences.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | How big is/are your monitor(s?)?
         | 
         | I only maximise windows frequently when I work on a single
         | small monitor (and sometimes I'll use window transparency to be
         | able to see multiple windows simultaneously.) With 2 or 3 large
         | monitors, there's rarely any need to have windows maximised.
        
       | malkia wrote:
       | As a long time chromebook user, which runs Android apps - this is
       | more than welcome!
        
       | spankalee wrote:
       | Android is inching closer to resolving the ChromeOS / Android
       | split in Android's favor.
       | 
       | Probably a really good thing to not have two OSes when they
       | really could be one. I just with Fuchsia were powering it.
        
         | internet2000 wrote:
         | Android already won, Google all but gave up on improving
         | ChromeOS https://9to5google.com/2024/07/12/chromeos-lacros-
         | ending/
        
       | heraldgeezer wrote:
       | Nice, way better than ipadOS stage manager.
       | 
       | Btw, Firefox Nightly on Android now has a tabbed interface like a
       | desktop, making it better for tablets.
       | 
       | Depending on if I am just reading and watching youtube/music a
       | good android tablet is enough.
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | The whole "relaunch the app when the window size changes" design
       | from Android 1.0 was such an enormous mistake. They're really
       | going to pay for it now.
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | In 2018 I spent 1 year with my Samsung Galaxy S8 as my only
       | computer. Developed a big national website and a new programming
       | language from Termux.
       | 
       | Going to work with only my computer in my pocket was awesome. No
       | sync between devices anymore.
       | 
       | Forced me to use monitors at work and home which is good for the
       | neck. Had a 15 inch monitor when I was on the move, then a
       | lapdock.
       | 
       | Sadly, I was quite alone and Samsung Dex being not open source
       | nor well funded, some bugs where quite irritating in the long
       | term.
       | 
       | I dream of a linux smartphone powerhouse. Linux smartphones have
       | mediocre processors.
       | 
       | Give me a linux smartphone with an apple silicon processor !
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | Would like to hear more about this if you wanted to write a
         | rambling blog post or _gasp_ Twitter thread
        
         | realusername wrote:
         | How did you manage with the web inspector? There's no built-in
         | web inspector on any mainstream mobile browser that I'm aware
         | of and the only way to do it would be to use firebug.js like
         | the good old days.
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | Kiwi browser has one!
        
             | realusername wrote:
             | Thanks a lot for that mention, I never heard of it and its
             | inspector seems to work fine.
        
               | rpmisms wrote:
               | I just found it, myself. Great so far.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | I think there are hacks to load up devtools in a new tab and
           | connect it to another tab of the same browser.
           | 
           | devtools is just a set of html and javascript after all, and
           | talks to the page its debugging via a websocket with special
           | powers.
        
           | a1o wrote:
           | When I had Dex I could run Ubuntu on it. I just used Firefox.
        
           | axytol wrote:
           | Not the OP, but if they mentioned they did it from Termux you
           | can install an X server and a full desktop browser like
           | Firefox either directly or via a chroot/proot "container" via
           | for example proot-distro [0].
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/termux/proot-distro
        
             | mystified5016 wrote:
             | There's also an app called userland which seems to spin up
             | some kind of VM. I don't know if android supports KVMs or
             | if it's a real userspace chroot type of deal.
             | 
             | I toyed with it briefly, the performance is about what I
             | expected given the hardware I was using. Which is to say,
             | not a terrible amount of overhead
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | In 2014 I spent a week with my Samsung Galaxy S4 as my only
         | computer. (My laptop was damaged and it took a while to repair.
         | IT asked if I wanted a loaner and I said I'd get back to them
         | if the phone proved inadequate.)
         | 
         | I was testing embedded hardware, so my main tasks involved a
         | UART port into a dev board. One Bluetooth serial interface
         | later, I was in business; there were some Arduino IDE ports or
         | something similar that had a respectable serial terminal, and
         | that's all I needed to see log messages.
         | 
         | Monitor plugged in over Samsung's weird MHL-HDMI thing;
         | knockoff cable was only a few bucks. It had a power
         | passthrough, so I used the otherwise-useless Cisco VoIP phone
         | on my desk (I was a contractor and the phone wasn't active) as
         | a USB power source to charge the S4.
         | 
         | Bluetooth keyboard, Alt-Tab works for switching apps, and
         | having real keys makes composing email a breeze. Bluetooth
         | mouse, pops up a cursor on the screen and works just like touch
         | with better ergonomics. Bluetooth headphones, for taking
         | conference calls and listening to music.
         | 
         | I wanted for nothing, and the whole mess fit into my coat
         | pockets, I didn't bother carrying a backpack that week.
         | 
         | It's a decade later and this is still a fringe activity?
        
           | nextos wrote:
           | > It's a decade later and this is still a fringe activity?
           | 
           | Manufacturers don't have much incentives for convergence.
           | They sell less devices and less applications.
           | 
           | It encourages local-first, instead of cloud-first. It
           | requires more thought on UI.
           | 
           | Samsung has great hardware, they could do it if they wanted.
           | But their software seems to have no direction.
        
         | MrMember wrote:
         | I've been dreaming of a good "convergence" device that I can
         | use as a phone but also dock and use as a PC for probably a
         | decade at this point. I've kind of lost hope, it might happen
         | some day but I doubt any time soon.
        
           | sweeter wrote:
           | Not exactly the same but I use my Steamdeck for this while
           | I'm traveling. It's honestly pretty nice. Although carrying
           | around an old M1 mac with Asahi Linux on it isn't that much
           | of a hassle either.
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | I do the same with my Steamdeck! It's really a remarkable
             | device. I'm incredibly appreciative to Valve for making it
             | open and Linux-based.
             | 
             | Desktop mode is pretty good, and it works with most
             | hardware. It's plenty powerful enough to be a portable
             | laptop, plus after the work is done you can pretty easily
             | grab a few hours on a game :-D
        
         | moritonal wrote:
         | It's wild there are plenty of AR headset's arriving such as
         | Visor, that can't just plug into your phone and spawn a full
         | desktop. Instead they want you to plug into a Windows or Apple
         | laptop, or battery kit.
         | 
         | Android fully understands the idea of running multiple apps, at
         | different resolutions, simultaneously and yet, no product in
         | this space due to I assume restrictive APIs.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | You can just run Android apps on the Quest directly.
           | 
           | The nReal glasses will act as a monitor for your phone.
           | 
           | It's not as easy as you think though. Streaming video at
           | acceptable VR resolution and framerate isn't trivial.
           | 
           | I guess you could get a headset to act like a car and get
           | Carplay running, but full RDP of an iPhone...does anything do
           | that?
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | GNOME could be great for this usecase. I've never liked GNOME
         | too much since version 2. But the latest iteration, after so
         | many years of churn, looks fantastic both on desktop and
         | mobile.
         | 
         | Small Linux tablets, such as Surface Go or Starlabs do touch
         | _and_ desktop pretty well on GNOME. Sadly, I don 't think there
         | is a good mobile equivalent to the S8 you used to use.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | I had to do a bunch of ARM32/ARM64 development the other day
         | and it was frustrating to be in a situation where my only
         | choices were an ARM VM in the cloud or to buy a mac. I have
         | this fantastic ARM-based smartphone on my desk, why can't I
         | plug it in to a keyboard and monitor and use it as a real
         | computer? Maybe one day.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | I keep a Raspberry Pi for when I need to do some ARM64 stuff,
           | but yes I agree it's a bit frustrating. Though, I'd love to
           | skip ARM altogether and go to RISC-V
        
       | ed_db wrote:
       | This is a good step forward, but I desperately want to be able to
       | extend a display on Android rather than screen mirroring.
        
       | ASinclair wrote:
       | Think of this in the context of the previous announcement that
       | ChromeOS will eventually be based on Android.
        
       | kleiba wrote:
       | Android is going for the PC market.
        
       | gverrilla wrote:
       | Best usage of tablets I've been able to find is playing Fruit
       | Ninjas. I love my mouse and keyboard
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | It's rather amusing to see them so "excited" about introducing
       | features and concepts have been around since Windows 95.
       | 
       | Even the titlebar buttons look like Windows' with the obvious
       | exception of a missing minimise.
       | 
       | On the other hand, maybe they're finally realising the fact that
       | "mobile UI" has been dumbed-down for too long.
        
       | petesergeant wrote:
       | Entirely tangential, but I've been feeling serious nostalgia
       | recently for a couple of small computers I've owned, specifically
       | the tiny 2012 MBA, and the first-edition Asus eee. In both cases,
       | they felt very solid, while also being very light. Does anyone
       | have recommendations for more recent ones that are Linux based,
       | and that I could get a small amount of work done on in an
       | emergency? I worry the market has been completely taken over by
       | Chromebooks that seem to be made out of cardboard
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | Everything old is new again!
       | 
       | They are so excited to just have reinvented last decade desktop
       | envs that were working well before fullscreen apps were imposed
       | to us.
        
       | andai wrote:
       | I recently acquired an Android tablet (Lenovo M10 -- a bit too
       | cheap, but gets the job done).
       | 
       | I also got a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
       | 
       | The only thing that works properly is web apps. All the native
       | apps have terrible keyboard and mouse support. It made me wonder
       | if I'm the only person using it this way.
       | 
       | On that note the only GUI text editor (yes I'm learning Vim in
       | Termux, no it's not a replacement for Sublime!) that's tolerable
       | is VSCode running in the browser.
       | 
       | Surprisingly comfy in fullscreen, but the fact that's it's even
       | necessary is just a testament to what a joke the whole ecosystem
       | is.
        
         | mannycalavera42 wrote:
         | nope, horrible Lenovo experience here as well. battery life is
         | a joke
        
       | sorenjan wrote:
       | I think a tiling window manager makes more sense for mobile
       | devices, but maybe that's the next step.
       | 
       | I also saw an article a while back that Android might get a task
       | bar for phones as well, that actually seems quite handy.
       | 
       | https://9to5google.com/2024/08/06/android-phones-taskbar-tes...
        
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