[HN Gopher] Omega-3 intake counteracts symptoms of anxiety and d...
___________________________________________________________________
Omega-3 intake counteracts symptoms of anxiety and depression in
mice
Author : geox
Score : 189 points
Date : 2024-09-21 15:31 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.psypost.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.psypost.org)
| elromulous wrote:
| This is exciting, and should be fairly easy to confirm/deny with
| a double blind trial in humans. There's no money to be had in it
| for big pharma, so funding it would have to come from some other
| means, but it should be possible.
| setting1855 wrote:
| as opposed to supplement studies in mice, which are notoriously
| lucrative
| brokensegue wrote:
| they are cheaper
| elromulous wrote:
| As the other comment mentions, mouse studies are hilariously
| cheap compared to human trials. We're talking many orders of
| magnitude. A couple grad students can do a mouse study at
| costs very much approaching zero.
| nosefurhairdo wrote:
| There's already research on Omega 3 supplementation's impact on
| depression + anxiety symptoms in humans. The results generally
| show that Omega 3 is roughly as effective as antidepressants,
| and can be safely taken in addition to antidepressants for an
| even greater effect.
| petesergeant wrote:
| Examine.com summary:
|
| > Fish oil supplementation has been noted to be comparable to
| pharmaceutical drugs (fluoxetine) in majorly depressed
| persons, but this may be the only cohort that experiences a
| reduction of depression. There is insufficient evidence to
| support a reduction of depressive symptoms in persons with
| minor depression (ie. not diagnosed major depressive
| disorder)
|
| They give it a B for the research and an effect size of
| moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for
| anxiety.
|
| https://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil
|
| I'd note it also says:
|
| > A meta-analysis of 35 small, randomized trials found that
| fish oil can slightly improve depression when compared to
| control. However, this improvement may be too small to be
| noticeable. Also, adding fish oil to antidepressant
| medication seems to be more beneficial than antidepressant
| treatment alone
|
| In short, sounds like it's worth throwing in as an adjunct
| treatment for people wanting to take a kitchen sink approach
| jaggederest wrote:
| > They give it a B for the research and an effect size of
| moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for
| anxiety
|
| To be fair, this is among the most highly rated things on
| the entire site - let not the "B" scare you off. A moderate
| effect size is pretty substantial, all things considered.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| > There's no money to be had in it for big pharma
|
| IIRC there's several patent medicine versions of omega 3 such
| as icosapent ethyl
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| High long chain omega 3 and low omega 6 not only revered my
| hyperlipidemia (through stimulating reverse cholesterol
| transport) but notably reduces my symptoms of schizoaffective
| disorder bipolar type (I am assuming this is through assisting
| with carecholamine receptor function).
|
| I came to the conclusion this diet would help me by noting the
| polymorphisms in my FADS1 and FADS2 genes linked to needing more
| long chain PUFAs.
|
| You might also be interested that omega 3 is responsible for
| making natural Cannabinoid (endocannabinoids) in humans which
| could be linked to the lower anxiety.
| wtetzner wrote:
| Yeah, I've noticed too much Omega 6 is at least one big cause
| of my anxiety.
|
| Avoiding vegetable oils (and foods that are cooked with it) and
| just using coconut oil, tallow, butter etc. reduces my anxiety
| to the point that it's barely noticeable.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| IMHO, Omega 3 increases GABA and Omega 6 increases Glutamate.
| I am going to guess that if you ever smoked pot that high THC
| weed makes you severely anxious?
| s__s wrote:
| Can you elaborate on the connection you're drawing here?
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Omega 3 supplements are such a wild world. So many low quality
| ones, so many different types, and so many claims about them
| being miracle cures (that then don't hold out for later studies).
|
| I have severe chronic dry eye, and omega 3 is one of the first
| things they recommend. But then in the past 5 or 6 years there
| have been a bunch of studies that have shown there is no actual
| measurable effect.
|
| Some people still claim that it helps, but that you have to get
| it by actually eating Omega 3 rich fish, and not just taking the
| supplements. Either way, I've never seen any difference with my
| dry eye symptoms.
| oidar wrote:
| I have dry eye as well. What have you done that helps? Omega 3
| didn't do anything for me either.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| I have uveitis and it certainly helped for me. I think what
| happens is a lot of people don't lower the amount omega 6 and
| just increase omega-3 by a small amount. It took a drastic
| reduction in omega 6 for it to help.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| I'm about 10 years into this, and I've tried many many
| things. It's all about management now. It really depends on
| the type of dry eye you have, so I'd recommend seeing a dry
| eye specialist if you haven't. Getting a meibography done is
| really important for seeing the state of your glands.
|
| The things that work the best for me currently are Systane
| Hydration PF eye drops, NuLids, Manuka Honey gel, OcuSoft lid
| scrubs, moving out of a dry climate, and limiting screen
| time. Inflammation in general causes it to flare up -- diet,
| lack of sleep, alcohol, stress, staying up late coding or
| gaming, all seem to cause inflammation and make it worse for
| me.
|
| I've also done Restasis, Xiidra, Cequa, IPL, Radio Frequency,
| warm compresses, and punctal plugs, without much success.
|
| I'd like to try autologous tear serum next.
| calf wrote:
| I'm doing IPL/RF now which is theorized to help with
| inflammation, but now I know to be more careful with
| healthy lifestyle. Too bad this understanding of computer
| lifestyle and dry eye syndrome was that well explained and
| emphasizsd 15 years ago.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Have you noticed any improvement with IPL/RF? I've done 5
| sessions - I saw improvement after the first and fourth,
| but regressed pretty quicky back after a few days. I've
| heard some people saying they had to do like 10 to start
| to notice a bigger difference. The problem is it's so
| expensive (I have to pay $750 for the combo session).
| youniverse wrote:
| Wow you've tried the whole industry. The only thing I can
| recommend to you would be to try a brand of drops called
| Optase, they are more quality and thicker than everything
| else on the market.
|
| Here's a HN post with a really good top comment that talks
| about psychological eye strain that really resonated with
| me, plenty of other advice in there too you might like:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34518343
|
| Good luck!
| Trasmatta wrote:
| I haven't tried Optase, but it's worth a shot. Systane
| Hydration PF has been the best for me, and it is also a
| lot thicker.
|
| Thank you for the link! It resonates with my experience.
| I do think there's a psychological aspect of it for me.
| When I'm depressed or disassociating (which is frequent)
| it's easy to just stare at a screen and not blink at all.
| ckcheng wrote:
| That's a lot of different things to consider and try,
| thanks!
|
| What worked for me was drinking massive amounts of water
| throughout the day.
|
| Not so much to cause hyponatremia, of course, but it was a
| cheap easy way to establish a baseline for me (i.e. helps
| with dry climates, salty foods, dehydration, etc). And
| yeah, I tried some of those other things too.
| manmal wrote:
| If Manuka honey has helped, have you considered using other
| antiseptics or even probiotic eye baths and bacteriophages?
| theropost wrote:
| I used to have this problem too. Tried prescriptions,
| systane, hydration eye drops etc etc, but in the end but
| actually worked was baby shampoo rinsing my eyes twice a
| day and washing them it took some time but now it's
| completely gone. But for me I believe it was some sort of
| blepharitis that was blocking the glands that produced the
| lubrication my eyes needed, and now that I have a good
| routine, it appears to have solve the problem.
| theendisney4 wrote:
| How much water do you drink and do you take extra salt?
| sebmellen wrote:
| For me, Xiidra combined with once a day Pataday (which
| actually dries the eye, but for me helped stem inflammation
| that was harming my ability to form a tear film), plus this
| iTEAR device (https://olympicophthalmics.com/itear-100/), was
| incredibly helpful.
|
| I'd also recommend getting a humidifier for each of your main
| rooms and using distilled water with it.
| cyberax wrote:
| Perfluorohexyloctane helped me quite a bit. You can ship it
| from Europe for something like $20 per vial (EvoTears), or
| get in the US for $700 (Miebo). The vials are literally
| identical.
| 93po wrote:
| I cured mine bc I figured out it was related to LPR/reflux
| which was causing dry eyes along with some other crappy
| stuff.
| faustlast wrote:
| Do you get headaches because of your dry eyes? (specifically,
| after staring at screens for a long time)
| Trasmatta wrote:
| I generally don't get headaches luckily. When my dry eye was
| a lot more severe I had to strain to see the screen, and
| would sometimes get them then. It's better managed now (but
| still severe).
| theropost wrote:
| Blepharitis perhaps?
| someothherguyy wrote:
| It is suspect to me that a lot of waste products end up being
| pushed as supplements. Also, there is a swath of junk science
| associated with nutrition publishing.
| lambdaba wrote:
| It's used in TBI, see Dr. Barry Sears for some accounts.
|
| "Fish oil helped save our son"
| https://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/19/health/fish-oil-brain-
| inj...
|
| > Most of the studies about omega-3 for traumatic brain
| injury are in animals, but they indicate potential for
| healing the human brain.
|
| > After a trauma, the brain tends to swell, and the
| connections between some nerve cells can become damaged,
| while other cells simply die.
|
| > National Institutes of Health research suggests that
| omega-3 fatty acids may inhibit cell death and could be
| instrumental for reconnecting damaged neurons.
|
| > Another recent study revealed genes that are activated to
| contain massive damage - especially inflammation - when the
| brain is injured. What activates those genes: omega-3.
|
| > "We have strong data that suggest omega-3 will activate
| good proteins to cope with brain damage and turn off proteins
| that cause neuroinflammation," said Dr. Nicolas Bazan,
| director of the Neuroscience Center of Excellence at LSU
| Health in New Orleans and author of the study.
|
| > Bailes consulted with a fish oil expert and eventually
| decided that administering 20 grams a day of omega-3 fish oil
| through a feeding tube might repair the myelin sheath. (For
| comparison: A typical supplemental dose for someone with an
| uninjured brain is about 2 grams a day.)
| hirvi74 wrote:
| TBI is a wide spectrum of conditions akin to "trauma" in
| psychological terms.
|
| I skimmed the article, but I didn't see any specific
| medical terms used. The reason I am curious is because I do
| not think that mTBI like concussions cause brain swelling
| since the injury is more of a functional injury than a
| structural injury.
|
| I like to play ice hockey as an adult, and I try to do
| everything reasonably possible to protect my brain from
| vulcanized rubber disks flying at my head at 0 < x 100 mph.
| Perhaps I will add some fish oil back into my diet. I
| already uses Lion's Mane, but I am not sure if it truly
| does anything, but I love the taste of the product I use,
| so I will continue to use it regardless. Not sure if I have
| ever had a "real" concussion, but definitely some ringers.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Sorry, this was just a quick search, I first heard about
| this from Dr. Barry Sears, and he had several accounts of
| miraculous recovery with massive doses of fish oil (20g+)
| Etheryte wrote:
| This is incredibly common with things such as fungi, which
| are known to have numerous benefits across a wide body of
| studies. The catch is that most of the supplements are just
| filler, leftover parts you can't use for much else e.g.
| ground up stem or even growth medium that has little to
| nothing in it.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| > Omega 3 supplements are such a wild world.
|
| That's why you should get it from seafood and grass fed mammals
| (if you need long chain PUFAs) or flaxseed (if you need short
| chain PUFAs).
|
| There are probably many other things in seafood that co-exist
| with Omega 3 for a reason.
| lambdaba wrote:
| I've researched trustworthy brands a lot, the ones I settled on
| are Nootropics Depot, Viva Naturals and Nordic Naturals. I
| prefer those with only Vit E as preservative.
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| What led you to settle on these?
| lambdaba wrote:
| - Nootropics Depot because I know the owner (online) and
| they do rigorous testing
|
| - Viva Naturals from recommendations and testing (Labdoor)
|
| - Nordic Naturals is a well-known premium brand
|
| frankly I haven't documented, these are just some things
| out of the top my head
| tharmas wrote:
| Have you tried Lutein?
| l5870uoo9y wrote:
| Another important aspect regarding supplements; so few are
| tested for how well they are absorbed by human digestion.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| It's amazing the lengths some people will go to avoid eating
| fish.
| naitgacem wrote:
| Fish can be prohibitively expensive even in parts of the
| world with access to large amounts of seashorres. Think:
| North Africa.
| Beijinger wrote:
| I think there is a Russian medicine for dry eye: Visomitin
|
| But I remember a study that claimed it does not work. Also, may
| be currently hard to get.
| ahallock wrote:
| There are conflicting studies, but recently, it was determined
| you need adequate vitamin B levels to support omega-3.
|
| As an aside, you can definitely over-dose on omega-3 which can
| cause afib, and increase your chance of stroke. I was taking 2
| grams per day and definitely had arrhythmia issues. Decreasing
| the dosage to 500mg per day eliminated the arrhythmia.
| dmix wrote:
| Didn't know that was possible with Omega 3. The pills I have
| are 660mg and recommends 1 per day, seems you took about 3.5x
| that dose
|
| By the way, how can you detect arrhythmia? Blood pressure
| monitor or Apple Watch? General feeling?
| maxresdefault wrote:
| This is great, but why does Omega 3 paradoxically reduce
| expression of dopamine receptors and dopamine release
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Because it makes the dopamine more effective.
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| The dopamine hypothesis is being heavily debated and revisited
| these days. Might be worth checking any assumptions against
| current research.
| nightmonkey wrote:
| Does caffeine intake nullify this effect?
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| This definitely tracks with my experience. I take a tablespoon of
| cod liver oil daily and I've definitely noticed a complete
| flatlining of my emotional states. My baseline is just basic
| calmness and a general lack of "monkeymind"/intrusive thoughts.
| Really amazed its not a more prescribed treatment.
| alberth wrote:
| Cod is super high in Vitamin D, and considered by many
| historians the secret food that contributed to Vikings success.
|
| https://goodness-exchange.com/cod-vikings-vitamin-d/
| Beijinger wrote:
| Cod is super high in Vitamin A too and I would be worried
| about your liver.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Does it also flatline your positive emotions? Ashwaganda does a
| similar thing for a lot of people, it tamps down their anxiety
| and depression but suppresses most other emotions as well (it's
| called anhedonia).
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| I would definitely say so. I can still feel happy if I choose
| to but I don't feel upward swings. Overall I'd say its a net
| positive as I generally feel content.
| carabiner wrote:
| It didn't affect me at all when I took it for a few years. No
| noticeable positive or negative effect.
| aucisson_masque wrote:
| used to drink cod liver oil daily, then i learned how it's
| processed... I would advise just taking vitamin d pill and
| eating 2 to 3 times a week fat fish.
|
| About cod liver oil manufacturing :
| https://www.rositausa.com/cdn/shop/articles/Rosita-Postcard-...
|
| Everything is so polluted that either you're drinking oil that
| contains plastics and chemicals, or you're drinking an oil that
| has been completely destroyed and rebuilt using vitamin D, A
| and omega 3 from third party manufacturer.
| dmix wrote:
| Any particular types of fish or sources of that fish fat?
| mmanfrin wrote:
| Well this is a great thing to see an hour after buying some O3s.
|
| I have read though that omega-3 _supplements_ seem to not do
| much, it 's the intake of them dietarily that show results, I'm
| not sure how current that research is. I've also read that algae
| as a source might be better? There's a tremendous amount of
| conflicting information.
| oarfish wrote:
| > I have read though that omega-3 supplements seem to not do
| much
|
| afaik that holds for a lot (if not most) commonly used
| supplements (vitamins are another popular offender). Sometimes
| the reason is the food matrix effect, where just isolated
| nutrients are not as beneficial as when they are consumed along
| with other nutrients. Sometimes (like vitamin D or
| testosterone), the biomarker is reflective of health status,
| not predictive.
|
| From this [1] podcast (2y old at this point) I too seem to
| remember that it doesn't do much most of the time, that
| supplements are generally untrustworthy w.r.t. dosing and
| purity and there's also a slight chance of giving yourself
| afib.
|
| 1. https://soundcloud.com/user-344313169/episode-193-fish-oil
| reubensutton wrote:
| There's never been a better time to be a mouse
| CatWChainsaw wrote:
| Right up until any given study with mice concludes...
| atombender wrote:
| Or a worse one. I know you're making a joke, but it doesn't
| seem that funny to me -- U.S. biomedical industry goes through
| about 111 million lab mice and rats each year [1]. Most mice
| lives are short and cruel, living their entire lives in tiny
| plastic boxes and often subjected to horrific experiences. We
| should be more thankful.
|
| [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-mice-and-
| ra...
| hirvi74 wrote:
| I really appreciate that someone else shares my opinions on
| this matter. It pains me what we do to animals for our
| benefit. I suppose there is no other alternative, but that
| does not diminish the cruelty.
|
| I feel the same way about the "Boar's Head" meat recall in
| the US due to Listeria. 7 million pounds of meat must be
| disposed of. That means every single one of the pigs died for
| that meat died for absolutely nothing at all. It just doesn't
| sit right with me.
| PlattypusRex wrote:
| This isn't funny. Mice and rats are among the most intelligent
| animals used in research, and despite ethical regulations on
| their treatment, they are often ignored. Many of these animals
| endure severe procedures without adequate pain relief, or none
| at all. This widespread suffering also causes mental health
| problems for many of the researchers who have to regularly
| euthanize them. These animals sacrifice their lives to improve
| human health and well-being. At the very least, we should show
| respect for their pain and suffering, which is undertaken for
| our benefit.
| ahallock wrote:
| Have they made any mice immortal yet (with continuous
| treatments of stem cells and other therapies)?
| voytec wrote:
| "Omega-3" is as vague and underdescriptive term as "marihuana".
| We're better educated now and we can focus on the
| eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) where
| it comes to Omega 3. And we can point at THC, CBN, CBD or any of
| the 100+ other cannabinoids present in cannabis flowers when we
| describe "marihuana", "weed" or "pot".
|
| And there's a reason behind my local pharmacy offering THC-
| focused or CBD-focused pot, and my local supplements store
| offering DHA-focused and EPA-focused softgels, produced by the
| same company and under the same brand. How these these products
| act varies by active substances content and the person. Both
| "Omega 3" and "marihuana" are dumbed-down terms, meaningless when
| it comes to studies or papers.
|
| There's a ton of studies on nih.gov about EPA's potential as an
| antidepressant, misaligned with DHA-related articles on the
| subject, that I could link. But I can say - purely anecdotally -
| that I removed psypost.org feed from my RSS reader a few months
| after ChatGPT became public.
| orblivion wrote:
| I had been under the mistaken impression that DHA was only
| interesting inasmuch as your body inefficiently turns it into
| EPA.
| adrian_b wrote:
| DHA and EPA have distinct roles in the body.
|
| Both are necessary for most people, especially for males and
| for older people, because the inter-conversions between the
| various omega-3 fatty acids are done inefficiently by humans.
|
| The other omega-3 fatty acids do not have known functions,
| except as sources of DHA and EPA, after an enzymatic
| conversion.
| derefr wrote:
| I think there's a practical distinction between the kind of
| term "omega-3" is vs the kind of term "marijuana" is.
|
| You mostly only find THC/CBD/etc _in_ marijuana; and we mostly
| only consume marijuana to get those particular active
| ingredients into our bodies. So you can forget about
| "marijuana" as a category for describing those compounds, and
| just speak of the compounds themselves -- measure marijuana
| strains by the presence of those active ingredients; extract
| and purify one particular active ingredient and sell it; etc.
| Doing this doesn't lose you anything; in fact, it's a pure win,
| as the use of precise language gives people a tool to leverage
| to more precisely ask for the effect they're looking for, and
| gives suppliers a tool to more precisely describe what they're
| selling.
|
| While the omega-3 constituent compounds _can_ be treated this
| way, they are not _solely_ a thing we extract or synthesize to
| put in precise-molarity-per-dose pills; they 're _also_ a thing
| found _in food_. Many different foods; with most of them being
| foods people eat for reasons _beyond_ just getting omega-3s in
| their bodies. In other words, the "omega-3" constituent
| compounds are _nutrients_.
|
| And many of these omega-3-containing foods -- fish, for example
| -- aren't carefully cultivated species that have known ratios
| of the omega-3 constituent compounds that could be put on the
| label of the food-product. Rather, the ratio of those
| constituent compounds is pretty much random per individual food
| item. One salmon at the grocery store has omega-3 fats which
| happen to be high in DHA, while the next salmon beside it in
| the same cooler display is higher in EPA. All you can _in
| general_ about a food product -- all a supplier can say, and
| all a _food_ shopper can generally expect to look for -- is a
| food that is "high in omega-3s."
|
| As long as people are interested in optimizing their health in
| a loose manner by eating "healthful foods" -- rather than
| taking specifically-formulated supplements -- I don't expect
| they'll let go of the generic categorical term "omega-3." When
| it comes to _food_ , "it contains omega-3s" is almost always
| the tightest bound you can put on the "nutritional value" of a
| given food.
| sheepdestroyer wrote:
| I'm not so sure about the incertitude you speak of about
| omega-3s content and ratios in food.
|
| In fact while in Japan I used to specifically select my bags
| of dried sardine (niboshi) and mackerel cans by the content
| of EPA and DHA, clearly indicated in mg per 100g. Every such
| products had these indications with content varying by
| brands.
|
| I guess that if you master your process you can ensure and
| advertise a consistent quality.
| derefr wrote:
| Processed fish products are a bit different from a large
| chunk of a single fish, in terms of the promises that can
| be made.
|
| The problem with large, wild-caught fish, is that different
| fish are going to be living in slightly-different regions,
| or migrating through given regions at slightly-different
| times, and so eating different things; and so will have
| more or less of any given nutrient coming from those things
| in their bodies.
|
| If you're catching large swarms/schools of fish, all the
| fish _in_ a given school will be mostly identical in their
| nutritional content. And so, if you 're doing some bulk
| operation like canning or drying, and you're doing it on
| fish that swarm/school and get caught as whole
| swarms/schools (such as sardine or mackerel) -- then, for
| each catch delivered to your plant by a fishing vessel, you
| can take a few samples from that catch to get a sense of
| the average micronutrient values of that catch; and then
| you can store these catches separately, _titrating
| together_ the different catches into each processed
| mixture, to achieve the a steady nutritional value in the
| result. (This is roughly the same thing that e.g. orange
| juice companies do with the truckloads of oranges they buy
| to achieve a consistent output juice product.)
|
| But if you're just buying e.g. one salmon, then it came
| through an entirely different logistics pipeline to get to
| you -- either an "independent" one where a small-time
| fisherman sold some fish directly to a local fishmonger,
| who then sold it directly to a local grocer, a few fish at
| a time; or a "big chain" one where a stream of flash-frozen
| fish from fishing vessels is being just-in-time streamed
| out to various grocery stores. (This lack of a fan-in
| processing step for raw large fish is also why grocers end
| up with so much mislabelled fish; the guy who works at a
| fish processing plant near the fishery will recognize all
| the fish that fishery tends to pull out of the water; but
| there's no similar expert in the meat department of a
| random grocery store in Idaho -- in fact, that person might
| not even know which fishery the fish they're receiving came
| from!)
| dragonwriter wrote:
| The specific supplement used in this research [0] was equal
| parts DHA and EPA (no ALA, which is the third main Omega-3.)
| Determining whether the effect is specific to one of the
| Omega-3's or general to the class would be an expected subject
| of further research, as would seeing if the effect holds
| outside of the lab mice model.
|
| There's a whole lot of work between this study and anything
| actionable other than for planning further research to confirm
| and better understand the effect, and whatever more general
| problems psypost.com may have, reporting the source of the
| effect as "Omega-3" is both consistent with the paper and not
| overly general given the actual facts.
|
| [0] Linked from the story, but:
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235228952...
| dmix wrote:
| Asked gpt to summarize studies on pill quality for omega 3
|
| > A study published in JAMA (2015) analyzed 47 popular fish oil
| supplements and found that around 70% of them did not contain
| the amount of omega-3 fatty acids listed on their labels. Many
| had lower concentrations of EPA and DHA than advertised.
|
| > Another study from New Zealand in 2014 found that 83% of fish
| oil supplements contained less omega-3 than claimed on the
| label, sometimes by as much as 90% less than advertised.
|
| I've seen "professional" branded lines of these supplements.
| I've wondered if they were actually held to a high
| manufacturing standard or it's just marketing to set a higher
| price
| QuantumGood wrote:
| High quality EPA was the only thing that universally worked for
| a family member with depression. Tried changing sources one
| time and felt the difference in about 2 days. Got back on the
| previous source and back out of depression.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| Anxiety and depressions are feelings. Eating feels good for a
| little bit. But I could easily make the claim that getting a dog
| and taking it for regular walks in nature counteracts symptoms of
| anxiety and depression. Doing Yoga with synchronized
| breathing...same Taking a hot bath, a sauna session, a massage,
| sex, a long list. Why do so many people think eating something is
| the path to good health.
|
| Also knowing how things are encoded in neural networks, where
| it's a combination of variables that sets off some behaviour. Why
| do Scientists still persist on trying to isolate a single
| variable.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| I take it you were never in a psychiatric hospital with people
| urging you to get ECT?
|
| I was. Hot baths don't work, but that's just me. Blanket
| recommendations are useless and harmful. It turns out I have a
| genetic issue causing my mood issues and diet is my treatment.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford. But
| whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't have
| been food. Unless you're so poor that you severely
| malnourished, or you're eating something severely toxic. And
| even then, lots of places in this world with malnourished
| populations that are not depressed.
|
| Improving the quality of your life is not just food. It's all
| the other things that go into it. Like autonomy, sense of
| security, friends, social status, finances, physical activity
| levels, etc.
|
| So be sure to look after improving those things too.
|
| And my suggestion for walking a dog, is a simple and
| practical suggestion for something that will get you both
| companionship and exercise.
|
| From personal experience, quitting smoking helped with
| anxiety. That longing feeling for a cigarette was making me
| anxious, and that feeling would persist even after having
| one. So quitting was helpful. But again, smoking is not
| eating.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| > By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford.
| But whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't
| have been food
|
| Are there purines, like Inosine and Guanosine, in food?
|
| Did you even ask what my genetic disorder is?
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| I'm always open to learning things I don't know about ...
| go on
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Cool.
|
| I have a Partial PNP Deficiency that makes it harder for
| me to break down Inosine and Guanosine (and xanthine). My
| PNP enzyme only functions at about 12% of most "normal"
| people.
|
| Image: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/538247/
| fimmu-11-0...
|
| Paper on the topic: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/
| immunology/articles/10....
|
| So how does food affect me?
|
| They use Inosine (Inosinic acid) and Guanosine (Guanylic
| acid) in foods as a food additives to increase the umami.
|
| https://www.eurofins.com/media-centre/newsletters/food-
| newsl...
|
| These are also found naturally in many foods:
| https://www.umamiinfo.com/richfood/
|
| When I eat these foods I cannot break these purines down
| and they not only cause mood issues but also an immune
| deficiency.
|
| Purinergic System Dysfunction is linked to mood
| disorders:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4262688/
|
| After going on a low specific purine diet I no longer
| need any of the three psychiatric medications I was on
| but for klonopin since there are some triggers I cannot
| avoid.
|
| Food did this. Food and having a good doctor who did not
| give up on me. Food and knowing what my genetics are. I
| get that some people might benefit from Yoga, etc, but to
| serve a blanket statement like that is just ignorant of
| the genetic and environmental diversity of humanity. I
| have these genetics because I have Sami heritage and I am
| adapted to live in a cold climate and eating low purine,
| high zinc foods. Zinc also helps me break down the
| purines by stimulating LACC1, which is a sort of PNP
| backup. A zinc deficiency when I was young left me with
| an undecended testicle because of my LACC1 genetics.
|
| https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/Q8IV20/entry
| seper8 wrote:
| Super interesting, thanks for sharing
| jaggederest wrote:
| Thank you for posting the genetic polymorphism, makes it
| much easier to cross reference. Glad you've found an
| answer!
| ec109685 wrote:
| Allergies are a thing. Why is it hard to believe that certain
| types of food affect people in specific ways?
| readyplayernull wrote:
| On a related topic, I started taking bacopa monnieri and it
| improved my memory and mental endurance, anxiety and depression.
| I gave it to my wife and had the totally opposite effect:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri
|
| Also I can drink coffee and won't make any effect on my sleep,
| while my wife gets the boost. I wouldn't be surprised the effects
| of all those supplements depend on your body chemistry.
|
| They can't differentiate the population, so all these studies
| will average zero.
| huuhee3 wrote:
| Yep, what works for one may not work for others. Some people
| find L-theanine supplement helpful for reducing anxiety. For me
| it kind of worked, but then gave bad anxiety as a withdrawal
| symptom.
| crucialfelix wrote:
| Bacopa Monnieri aka Brahmi has been very effective to eliminate
| mental turbulence for me. It has a calming, sharp, bitter
| effect. It's like it's cleaning something up. If my mind is
| overactive in bed at night I take Brahmi and I quickly feel
| settled.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Are you measuring your vitals during sleep with a watch or a
| ring? Might not be affecting your ability to fall asleep but
| hard to imagine it does nothing to your brain or heart while
| you're unconscious
| meindnoch wrote:
| When I took omega-3 in addition to duloxetine, I got terrible
| brain zaps the whole day.
| scellus wrote:
| That's interesting, zaps are a withdrawal syndrome of SSRIs
| (and duloxetine).
| meindnoch wrote:
| Yep. That's where I knew brain zaps from, because I
| previously experienced them when coming off SSRIs.
| seper8 wrote:
| I had them after an accidental too big MDMA dose, after
| which I felt depressed for a few weeks.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| Just instruct your personal chef to include more organic eggs, to
| cure your ego problem, and you'll feel better. Great news for
| anyone that partied with P.diddy
| fredgrott wrote:
| It should not be title Omega-3!
|
| The article clearly States Omega-3, 8, and Omega-9!
| hereme888 wrote:
| Why are we still looking at mice studies for such a human-used
| substance?
|
| This study used EPA: 0.55 mg/kg/day, and DHA: 0.55 mg/kg/day.
|
| Among the largest I've heard in human studies are things like
| 4,400mg EPA and 2,200mg DHA.
|
| Examine.com is one of the best resources to understand what
| evidence shows about supplements.
|
| EPA appears to be the component that works for depression.
|
| Also, important these days, is the quality: it should be filtered
| from heavy metals, and processed and stored in a way that avoids
| it going rancid by the time you consume it.
|
| I strongly believe in the benefits of having a higher
| omega-3:omega-6 ratio than is common nowadays.
| mattnewton wrote:
| > Once the behavioral tests were completed, the mice were
| killed, and their blood and tissues were analyzed to assess the
| biological effects of stress and omega-3 supplementation.
|
| I think they are trying to show biological causes by carefully
| controlling the mice's entire life and then cracking them open
| at the end of the study. Can't really do that with humans.
| ahallock wrote:
| You have to be careful with such high doses over a long period
| of time. It can cause heart arrhythmia.
| genewitch wrote:
| There's a study about omega3 supplementation that says that if
| children in a family supplement it, that the parents have a
| better relationship, even if they don't supplement. I can
| probably dig it out, given enough time with a search engine.
|
| Another one is D. over the course of three years i managed to
| help my wife get above 100ng/ml 25-hydroxy-D on a blood test. Of
| course every doctor called and said "too high" and her Calcium is
| too high too, but not from the D3, folks, because she takes K2
| Mk7. Her calcium is high because she mostly drinks fortified
| orange juice _and_ was taking 1200mg calcium per day at the
| direction of her oncologist. She has a lot of chronic issues and
| we 're slowly trying to mitigate everything possible with diet
| and supplements. The specialist said "stop calcium immediately"
| and "reduce D for 1 month" only. for those aware her Ca was 10.9
| ("good" range is ~9.0 - 10.2). I guarantee that her calcium will
| go back to normal because of the K2 between now and her next
| blood panel. _note_ : they don't actually test D levels unless
| you ask, in general. One might wonder why that is - i know i
| certainly do.
|
| In fact, i was just about to go to the pharmacy to get Omega-3
| supplements when i saw this post. Her chart shows that she _must_
| supplement omega 3, since she won 't eat baked salmon. My kid
| already has vitamins with omegas in them.
|
| What i recommend is actually reading studies - completely - and
| if you have any questions or doubts, befriend researchers in
| biology or other life sciences that can skim the paper and tell
| you "meh" or "hey that's cool". Studies contradict, studies may
| have bad inputs or methodology, the only way to know for sure is
| to read as many as you can as thoroughly as you can, and if
| possible, consult experts. Medical doctors of the "PCP"
| persuasion are _not_ experts, generally.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-09-21 23:00 UTC)