[HN Gopher] House committee approves bill requiring new cars to ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio
        
       Author : eklitzke
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-09-19 21:29 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | _S.1669 - AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act of 2023_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41585397
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | I used to have a car with a broken AM radio and it was really
       | annoying and sometimes stressful because all the traffic alerts
       | were broadcast on an AM station
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | As a happy side effect they will actually have to address the
       | incredible amount of low frequency near-field electromagnetic
       | interference that electrical cars typically generate. The reason
       | manufacturers stopped putting AM radio in cars is that the cars
       | themselves are so electrically noisy the entire AM band is washed
       | out with static.
        
       | snakeyjake wrote:
       | The public safety argument is bullshit.
       | 
       | If lawmakers ACTUALLY cared about public safety, they would fund
       | the distribution of hand-cranked AM radios that could be stored
       | in emergency kits.
       | 
       | This is just legislation purchased, incredibly cheaply, by
       | iHeartMedia, Audacy, and the like cloaked in the delusion that
       | people who failed to evacuate before a hurricane when all other
       | infrastructure was operational will go out to their submerged or
       | destroyed car to listen to the radio.
        
         | superkuh wrote:
         | Yes. It should be the FCC enforcing their regulatory duties
         | against specific car models not the house legislating in
         | general. The amount of interference on the low frequency bands
         | that some electrical cars produce prevents reception of AM. And
         | that was _already_ very illegal. You can 't do that but car
         | manufacturers were/are too big to care. The public safety
         | aspect of it is entirely secondary.
        
           | brewdad wrote:
           | Didn't the Supreme Court basically say recently that the FCC
           | and similar Executive Branch groups _can 't_ enforce such
           | rules? They must come from the Legislature to have any hope
           | of surviving review.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | The way the ruling was made, it will be a case by case
             | basis. If a republican FCC does it, that will be fine and
             | normal but if a democrat does it, it's out of the
             | legislative authority.
             | 
             | Either way, the 5th circuit will stop the rules from going
             | into effect.
        
             | superkuh wrote:
             | If the FCC can't enforce the prevention of interference
             | with radio broadcasts it is not the FCC. I'm not sure what
             | ruling you're referencing but I doubt it nulls out the core
             | idea of what the FCC does.
        
         | rychco wrote:
         | If they actually cared about public safety, they would pursue
         | legislation to require analog controls & eliminate touchscreens
         | in vehicles.
        
         | dullcrisp wrote:
         | I'm not buying your argument. I doubt you can devise and pass
         | legislation that'll cause more people to have emergency kits
         | with hand cranked AM radios than cars, even if you distributed
         | them for free, and there are scenarios that require emergency
         | communication that don't involve all cars being destroyed.
         | 
         | That said I'm not saying that the public safety argument is
         | genuine, but you can't just propose something else that you
         | prefer to discredit it.
        
       | nis0s wrote:
       | I am unconvinced that requiring AM radio in new cars is just "fan
       | service" or outdated.
       | 
       | Emergency scenarios often require a PSA (public service
       | announcement), and it's easy enough to envision a scenario where
       | communications degrade in succession, such that you can get a PSA
       | on how to use AM transmissions in case other communications go
       | down. So if other networks are degraded, then at least people
       | have AM to fall back on.
       | 
       | This house bill may sound like a bad idea to anyone who doesn't
       | work in disaster preparedness, or doesn't have a paranoid
       | security mindset, but it totally makes sense for someone who red
       | teams emergency comms.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | Especially since the tech is already there, and everywhere.
         | It's madness to lose a capability so easily kept.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | This doesn't convince me.
         | 
         | For starters, FM broadcasting is hardly more complex than AM
         | broadcasting and any vehicle built in the last 50 years with an
         | AM radio also has an FM radio.
         | 
         | I can't imagine a scenario where FM broadcasting is somehow
         | unavailable, but AM is. But further, if AM is the last line of
         | communication, we are in a VERY bad situation indeed, like
         | apocalyptic. One in which I doubt any survivors are listening
         | to the radio in their cars.
         | 
         | But even further, in an emergency, it's highly likely that car
         | drivers aren't even listening to the radio. Like, unless it's
         | something that everyone is made aware of with communications
         | other than through AM radio. But if those lines are open, then
         | why wouldn't communication be broadcast through those lines?
         | 
         | You may as well argue that we should make sure all homes have
         | land lines or telegraph lines. After all, that's also a line of
         | communication that could be used in an emergency.
        
           | superkuh wrote:
           | FM radio is line of sight because of it's high frequency.
           | Because of AM's much longer wavelength it can bounce off the
           | ionosphere and it drops off slower with distance than FM. The
           | range of AM stations is much greater than a comparable FM
           | station for a given height-above-terrain of the antenna.
        
           | 7e wrote:
           | AM transmissions have a far greater range than FM
           | transmissions, up to thousands of miles. This matters in a
           | common emergency scenario, a nuclear bomb blast (or all out
           | nuclear war), when EMPs will take out most electronics. Cars
           | are Faraday cages and their electronics will likely survive
           | an EMP. In this case, an AM radio in a car is likely the last
           | surviving broadcast medium people will have access to.
        
           | hyrix wrote:
           | FM radio bands are in fact used for various emergency
           | services, but they are more specialized in usage
           | https://strykerradios.com/ham-radios/ham-radio-emergency-
           | fre...
           | 
           | AM radio travels farther for the same energy consumption, as
           | a feature of the lower frequencies used. That means they can
           | provide emergency information to a much larger area for a
           | given power supply. AM radio also doesn't rely on huge towers
           | since the waves can bounce off the ionosphere and travel as
           | ground waves.
           | 
           | AM radio receivers are also very simple to make--check out
           | the crystal radio!
        
           | misswaterfairy wrote:
           | They might not be listening to AM radio all the time, but
           | it's often used as an emergency broadcast frequency in
           | Australia, and not for apocalyptic reasons though it could
           | be.
           | 
           | AM travels a lot further than FM, all other things being
           | equal, and the local frequency is signposted on road signs
           | around the country.
           | 
           | The big three typical emergency broadcasts down under include
           | wildfire (which have, and do kill motorists caught in them),
           | flood, and cyclone.
           | 
           | The problem with 'narrowcast' mediums like mobile phones
           | (inc. SMS), and landline phones, is that mass emergency
           | alerts can overload those networks which can delay the
           | message getting out, and it takes time to contact each
           | endpoint in the alert area. The message they get is also
           | likely to be short.
           | 
           | AM broadcast is immensely useful for non-overloadable
           | continual updates on an emergency (or several emergencies at
           | once). Though like narrowcast mediums, broadcast mediums also
           | have disadvantages.
           | 
           | AM is used as part of a wider solution. Sometimes the only
           | way to get an alert to people is via AM radio. It's much
           | easier to mandate AM radio in vehicles, and never need it,
           | than to allow manufacturers to drop it because 'reasons' and
           | then discover we suddenly can't warn some members of the
           | community because they relied on AM broadcasting (even if
           | they didn't know it at the time).
        
       | gaudat wrote:
       | A part of me really wants to push this and see how far it would
       | go. Why stop at AM? Add in shortwave radio and let us listen to
       | stations on the other side of the earth.
        
         | tcmart14 wrote:
         | Why not we just have a system like the beacons of Gondor?
        
       | dotnet00 wrote:
       | This was passed 45-2, from a committee with 29 Republicans and 23
       | Democrats, so it's interesting to see a bunch of comments here
       | acting like this is just a Republican thing.
        
       | lupusreal wrote:
       | I understand car manufacturers want to ditch AM radios to reduce
       | their part count, or so they can cheap out and use noisier
       | electronics in the rest of the car, or whatever.
       | 
       | What I find a bit odder is the vehemence with which some online
       | commenters also want them gone. I don't use either radio in my
       | car, but their presence doesn't get me hot under my collar
       | either. People say AM radio is useless and obsolete, but the same
       | could probably be said for FM too, since everybody pairs their
       | phones for music anyway. Why does AM have a target painted on it
       | when nobody online seems to have an axe to grind with the equally
       | useless FM radio? Is it just because there are a lot of
       | conservative talk shows on AM? Is that the angle here? The bill
       | to keep AM radios evidently has bipartisan support in Congress,
       | and yet for some reason these discussions usually have people
       | complaining about Republicans.
        
       | tcmart14 wrote:
       | Due to safety concerns and the ability to get the message out,
       | every home, building, bridge, mountain top, or structure must
       | maintain a a pile of logs on top and a flame at the ready in the
       | event of a national emergency so that way word or warning may be
       | spread like beacons of Gondor.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-09-19 23:01 UTC)