[HN Gopher] IBM is quietly axing jobs, source says
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       IBM is quietly axing jobs, source says
        
       Author : LinuxBender
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2024-09-18 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | rowanG077 wrote:
       | Why would you sign an NDA when beeing fired? So you het some
       | severance pay?
        
         | kabdib wrote:
         | Yup. Cash for silence
        
           | onemoresoop wrote:
           | Can the NDA be invalidated after the cash has been delivered?
        
             | organsnyder wrote:
             | If you signed a contract, they could pursue legal action.
             | Whether they would or not is a different question, but the
             | possibility of legal action from someone with such deep
             | pockets would give most people pause.
        
             | jimbokun wrote:
             | Depends on the laws of the state in which you were hired.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | On what basis?
        
           | darth_avocado wrote:
           | Unless it's substantial, never sign an NDA or arbitration
           | agreement for severance. You're better off keeping your
           | options open if it's something like one or two month's
           | salary.
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | No NDA, no severance payment...
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | I thought this was outlawed at least in the states:
           | https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/success/severance-
           | agreements-...
        
       | zeptian wrote:
       | why is this news ? they do it twice a year.
       | 
       | they have way too many employees, and it will take them a decade
       | of such cuts to "rightsize"
        
       | myth_drannon wrote:
       | And they say we don't have ageism in the industry... :
       | 
       | "As with prior layoffs, or "resource actions" to use IBM's
       | euphemism, we're told those affected are substantially in the
       | 50-55 age bracket with 20-24 years of seniority.
       | 
       | "It seems exclusively people in L7 and L8 and L9 bands, at the
       | top of the band in payment structure," the insider said.""
        
         | kolbe wrote:
         | Disparate outcomes do not imply disparate treatment
        
           | BadHumans wrote:
           | > As with prior layoffs
           | 
           | When all of your outcomes result in same treatment of the
           | same group of individuals, there just might be a little fire
           | to that smoke.
        
         | manuelmoreale wrote:
         | If the goal is to save money, isn't it reasonable to axe the
         | most senior people which are probably also paid more than
         | junior ones? And I'm not saying it's a smart strategy, it's
         | probably idiotic. Just saying it's not really ageist.
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | The cost/productivity balance is supposed to have been
           | considered for hiring and promotion; when a layoff
           | predominately targets a specific division or pay level it
           | means the strategy leading up to that point had been wrong.
        
             | manuelmoreale wrote:
             | Oh I'm not arguing against that. And as I said, I don't
             | think it's a smart way of running things. I'm just saying
             | that it may not be an age thing but simply a money thing.
             | That's all.
        
           | groby_b wrote:
           | Yeah, it is, unless you can make the case that IBM doesn't
           | _need_ all those leaders any more.
           | 
           | What will happen is that they rehire, and rehire young.
        
           | bankcust08385 wrote:
           | That's how Google Cloud did it.
        
           | droptablemain wrote:
           | Perhaps not in principal, but in practical terms it ends up
           | being "ageist."
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | > resource actions
         | 
         | I've always thought the term "resource" was dehumanizing, but
         | at least on its own it could be interpreted positively, but
         | "resource actions" is just upsetting
        
           | acheron wrote:
           | "Livestock culling"
        
             | doubled112 wrote:
             | I'm sure they'll find more meat to grind.
        
         | 7qW24A wrote:
         | RA'ing people at the top of their band means that they've
         | topped out skill-wise. These aren't senior people; it's people
         | who will never get promoted past 7 or 8 (which are quite
         | junior) but have been accruing comp adjustments for a long
         | time. Most teams will lay off a 7 that is getting paid more
         | than a 9 by virtue of being at the company for 20 years.
        
           | osnium123 wrote:
           | Do you think it's a good idea for employees to voluntarily
           | ask for pay cuts so that they are on the low end of the pay
           | scale for a job grade?
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Better to look for another job where you think you might
             | not be as disposable, even if at lower pay.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | Maybe this is true skill-wise, but there is also productivity
           | to consider. I knew a band 9, who was definitely not going to
           | be promoted STSM (band 10), but was extremely productive. I'm
           | sure he was paid well, better than most band 10s.
           | 
           | Band 10 and above include good soft-skills, people who can
           | persuade the industry and organization, give TED talks, etc.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | With the fed rate cuts, IBM will probably be hiring back those
       | same folks
        
         | myth_drannon wrote:
         | As per article, they are firing in US and still hiring in India
        
           | bankcust08385 wrote:
           | Saving a buck, being a traitor, and sacrificing quality all
           | at the same time. Workers should both unionize and boycott
           | any company that behaves that way.
        
       | datavirtue wrote:
       | Are these the jobs axed by AI? Would seem to make sense, since
       | the CEO said they were going to replace 5800 jobs with AI.
        
         | tbyehl wrote:
         | Please. Back in April they gutted my team of people working on
         | Ansible automations.
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | IBM and execs are full of shit and say that because they want
         | other company execs to buy their AI products. They will lay
         | people off because they cost money. No other reason.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | That's the same thing. AI is cheaper, hence you lay people
           | off because they cost more.
        
       | farceSpherule wrote:
       | NDA's don't matter. There are ways to leak the information
       | anonymously.
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | And the fact that it's under NDA makes IBM look even more
         | shitty.
        
       | javiramos wrote:
       | I always thought that IBM was a declining giant. I just looked up
       | their share price and it has done strikingly well over the past 2
       | years. Their revenue has also been growing, albeit slowly. Maybe
       | capitalizing on the AI buzz?
       | 
       | https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/IBM/
        
         | KK7NIL wrote:
         | IBM has largely retreated from consumer facing ventures but
         | it's still a behemoth.
         | 
         | From the start of its Wikipedia page:
         | 
         | > IBM is the largest industrial research organization in the
         | world, with 19 research facilities across a dozen countries,
         | having held the record for most annual U.S. patents generated
         | by a business for 29 consecutive years from 1993 to 2021.
         | 
         | I know that in semiconductors they're still doing bleeding edge
         | R&D which they then try to license to foundries. Their
         | mainframe business is still doing quite well too.
         | 
         | And I'm sure they're active in many other niches that I know
         | little about.
        
           | marcus0x62 wrote:
           | They have an absolutely massive consulting/services business
           | (~ $20B/year run rate.)
        
         | rmbyrro wrote:
         | Nobody has (still) ever been fired for hiring IBM.
         | 
         | They have a very strong brand in traditional corporate
         | industries, which have an endless demand for IBM services.
        
           | yellowapple wrote:
           | > Nobody has (still) never been fired for hiring IBM.
           | 
           | I'm pretty sure I came pretty damn close the one and only
           | time I opted for IBM Cloud (which was called "Bluemix" back
           | then). In fairness, running a PostgreSQL DB in a container
           | wasn't the brightest idea on my part, and it was also my
           | fault for not having backups in place, but when Bluemix ate
           | our entire prod DB, and the multiple-weeks-long back-and-
           | forth with IBM's support only yielded something along the
           | lines of "whoops, that sucks, good luck building a new DB
           | instance from scratch", we rather quickly jumped ship to AWS
           | and never looked back.
           | 
           | I'm sure IBM Cloud is better these days, though it was a bit
           | telling that during my brief time working for IBM my primary
           | job was to build customers' stuff on AWS instead of IBM
           | Cloud. Go figure.
        
             | rmbyrro wrote:
             | And yet, you haven't been fired
        
           | 486sx33 wrote:
           | Whomever hired IBM to build this mess should have been fired
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_pay_system
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | share price matters to a shareholder in the short term, but
         | doesn't come close to telling the whole story. IBM is not
         | performing well.
         | 
         | In 1990, IBM's market cap was $27B and Microsoft's was $5B.
         | 
         | In 1999, IBM's was just under $100B and Microsoft's was just
         | under $400B.
         | 
         | For the last decade+, IBM has hovered (rather wildly) around
         | $160B, while Microsoft has grown from $250B (post dot com
         | crash) to $2,500B.
         | 
         | so yes, IBM really has been a declining giant relative to their
         | market share in the strong technology sector
         | 
         | IBM selling off more and more businesses might be "the right
         | move" for shareholders and props up the share prices, but it
         | shrinks the overall business and in terms of value creation
         | (where wealth comes from) indicates a shortage at IBM
        
       | holografix wrote:
       | They've been doing it for so long I'm surprised they have any
       | jobs left to axe.
       | 
       | Sam Palmisano skinned IBM then too a knife to its belly and
       | gutted it. All in the name of his "Roadmap 2010" which was a plan
       | to double the share price by 2015.
       | 
       | So basically the pharaoh said "fuck it, we need a new pyramid.
       | Get the whips out and all worker carcasses are to be dump on the
       | left please".
       | 
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2014/05/30/why-ibm...
       | 
       | Edit: roadmap 2010 not 2015
        
       | alphazard wrote:
       | > As with prior layoffs, or "resource actions" to use IBM's
       | euphemism, we're told those affected are substantially in the
       | 50-55 age bracket with 20-24 years of seniority.
       | 
       | > Despite numerous past and ongoing age discrimination lawsuits,
       | IBM maintains it does not systematically discriminate on the
       | basis of age.
       | 
       | Lawsuits of this sort are a little ridiculous. If you work at a
       | company that pays people more just for being older, then you
       | shouldn't be surprised when the "more experienced" people are the
       | first to get laid off.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-18 23:01 UTC)