[HN Gopher] Gentle Guide to Self-Hosting
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Gentle Guide to Self-Hosting
        
       Author : kn81198
       Score  : 225 points
       Date   : 2024-09-18 08:16 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (knhash.in)
 (TXT) w3m dump (knhash.in)
        
       | asar wrote:
       | Love self-hosting and really got into it over the last couple of
       | months. I run a bunch of services for my company now and also in
       | my home lab. I use a Hetzner VPS and provision things either via
       | ansible + docker compose files or via
       | https://github.com/coollabsio/coolify/.
       | 
       | The awesome-selfhosted repository is also a great place to find
       | projects to self-host but lacks some features for ease-of-use,
       | which is why I've created a directory with some UX improvements
       | on https://selfhostedworld.com. It has search, filters projects
       | by stars, trending, date and also has a dark-mode.
        
         | b_shulha wrote:
         | Any chance to get my SaaS into "Heroku alternatives" section as
         | well?
         | 
         | https://ptah.sh
        
           | asar wrote:
           | Just added it!
        
             | b_shulha wrote:
             | That was quick. Means a lot for the tiny startup. Thank
             | you. <3
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | Since you seem knowledgeable on this topic I'd like to ask -
         | how risky is it to expose a computer on your network to the
         | internet, if you're somewhat tech-savvy but not very familiar
         | with networking? Is it relatively "safe" with modern tools and
         | VMs or do you need to stay on top and (for eg) always ensure
         | you're updating software weekly?
         | 
         | I've thought of setting up and running a server for a long time
         | and finally have a spare laptop so I'm thinking of actually
         | running a NAS at least.
        
           | voidUpdate wrote:
           | You'll want to make sure everything stays up to date in case
           | someone finds a vulnerability in whatever software you're
           | currently using. If you have to expose stuff to the outside
           | world, only open the ports you need to. Only allow access to
           | a specific user with a non-default username (or at the very
           | least disable root ssh access), and use long passwords or ssh
           | keys. I think that's generally the bare minimum, but there
           | are online guides to harden your stuff further like using
           | wireguard and fail2ban and stuff
        
           | asar wrote:
           | The approach most people use is to tunnel into the server.
           | You install a daemon on your computer which establishes a
           | tunnel to log-into from outside your network. Cloudflare and
           | Tailscale have solutions for this that are very popular among
           | the self-hosted crowd.
           | 
           | https://developers.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-
           | one/application...
           | 
           | https://tailscale.com/kb/1151/what-is-tailscale
        
           | conradklnspl wrote:
           | A god option is to setup a wireguard connection between
           | workstation and servers. All traffic has to go through
           | wireguard.
           | 
           | Because wireguard is UDP and only responds to valid requests,
           | there isn't any open port from the outside. Not even ssh.
        
             | jimvdv wrote:
             | Additionally you can use Tailscale for added convenience.
             | Tailscale is a payed service, for a simple home server you
             | can get away with the free plan and their mobile apps work
             | rather well.
             | 
             | Not affiliated with Tailscale at all just shouting them out
             | because they do make things very easy and I often recommend
             | them to hobbyist.
        
           | packetlost wrote:
           | I've been doing it for about 13 years now with HTTP/s (80,
           | 443), SSH (22), MOSH (lol idk), and IRC (6697) exposed to the
           | internet. You don't _need_ it, but something like fail2ban or
           | crowdsec is a good idea. You _will_ get spammed with attempts
           | to break in using default passwords for commodity routers
           | (Ubiquiti 's `ubnt` is rather popular), but if you're up to
           | date and take a few minor precautions it's not all that hard
           | and/or dangerous. That being said, there _are_ alternatives
           | such as Tailscale that are strictly more secure but far less
           | flexible. I 've heard of people using Cloudflare tunnels as
           | well, but I'd rather not rely on big players for stuff like
           | that if I'm going through the effort to self host (and don't
           | have any real risk of DDoS).
           | 
           | I would try to set up automatic updates for critical security
           | patches or update about weekly. I know people that self host
           | and do it monthly and they seem fine too. Most anything super
           | scary vulnerability wise is on the front page here for
           | awhile, so if you read regularly you'll _probably_ see when a
           | quick update is prudent. I personally use NixOS for all of my
           | servers and have auto-updates configured to run daily.
           | 
           | An old laptop is exactly how I got started 13 years ago,
           | they're great because they tend to be pretty power efficient
           | and quiet too.
        
             | clvx wrote:
             | On top of this, having ipv6 configured makes things harder
             | to discover but not impossible (As long as you don't use
             | ${ipv6_subnet}::xxxx for your hosts). You can avoid NAT and
             | just expose the nodes you need. Most ISP assign /56 or /64
             | which is a humongous amount of ips. It's nice if you are
             | just using a flat virtual network in your home lab. The
             | amount of scanners I see for my subnet are non existent at
             | the moment.
        
               | packetlost wrote:
               | That's if your ISP supports IPv6. My current one does,
               | but my last one did not.
        
             | scubbo wrote:
             | > I've heard of people using Cloudflare tunnels as well...
             | 
             | As a Cloudflare Tunnels user who only recently discovered
             | Tailscale - just go with Tailscale straight off the bat.
             | It's magic, and smooth as butter.
        
               | packetlost wrote:
               | Tailscale Funnel [0] is limited to TLS-based protocols
               | (maybe even just HTTPS) which is a non-starter for many
               | cases.
               | 
               | [0]: https://tailscale.com/kb/1223/funnel
        
               | Larrikin wrote:
               | Which cases? Tailscale has eliminated all my fears I had
               | about self hosting and I've been using it a ton. The only
               | issue I've run in to has been a single service (Withings)
               | that uses a web hook to trigger updates for my sleep mat.
               | Their server isn't on my tablet so I would need to expose
               | atleast one service to the wider Internet.
        
               | packetlost wrote:
               | I'm talking specifically about Tailscale Funnel which
               | gives ingress access to services on the tailnet from
               | outside (ie. on the general internet). Any case that
               | doesn't use TLS for a transport won't work. SSH being a
               | notable one, but I can think of several others.
        
             | tasuki wrote:
             | My stuff is always out of date and hasn't gotten hacked
             | yet.
             | 
             | I don't see why you'd want to run ssh on port 22. I run it
             | on a different port and never get login attempts. Yes, if
             | someone targeted me specifically of course they'd find out,
             | but I guess that hasn't happened yet.
        
               | johndough wrote:
               | > I don't see why you'd want to run ssh on port 22.
               | 
               | I run ssh on port 22 because I like wasting the time of
               | those script kiddies. Also I like to brag about half a
               | million "hacker attacks" on my server per month.
        
           | cutler wrote:
           | Just add `sudo apt update && apt upgrade` to your crontab.
        
             | jayknight wrote:
             | A better solution is probably:
             | https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
        
           | the_gastropod wrote:
           | I sat on the fence for a long time wanting to do this, and
           | finally pulled the trigger and picked up a Synology NAS last
           | year. I've had a blast setting up a handful of handy little
           | self-hosted services on the thing. Highly recommend giving it
           | a go!
           | 
           | I haven't had any security issues yet (knock on wood). But it
           | seems pretty low-risk if you follow basic best practices. The
           | only thing I have exposed to the internet is a reverse proxy
           | that proxies to a handful of docker containers.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | > Is it relatively "safe" with modern tools and VMs or do you
           | need to stay on top and (for eg) always ensure you're
           | updating software weekly?
           | 
           | First step to figure out if you actually need to be able to
           | access it from the outside at all. If you just want a NAS,
           | chances are you can put it on a separate VLAN/network that is
           | only accessible within your LAN, so it wouldn't even be
           | accessible from the outside.
           | 
           | If you really need it to be accessible from the outside, make
           | sure you start with everything locked down/not accessible at
           | all from the beginning, then step-by-step open up exactly
           | what you want, and nothing else. Make sure the endpoints
           | accessible is run by software you keep up to date, at least
           | weekly if not daily.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | Keep things up to date and ideally, having your public facing
           | servers in a DMZ/their own VLAN (separate network from your
           | private stuff).
           | 
           | Administrative things like SSH and RDP are best accessed with
           | a VPN but you can configure SSH in particular to be key-based
           | authentication only, which is very secure.
        
           | 0xfeba wrote:
           | I've been at it for over a decade. Home router has firewall
           | exceptions for SSH (not port 22 though), TLS IRC, and 80/443,
           | which are forwarded to my home server with fail2ban.
           | 
           | I run SSH (requires PKI outside local network), IRC,
           | nextcloud, and ampache (though don't really use ampache
           | anymore :( ).
           | 
           | Home server is encrypted RAID6 Arch Linux. If I had to do it
           | again I'd forego rolling releases and use something more
           | stable, like Debian.
           | 
           | Encrypted backups are done to backblaze once a month. I also
           | have a backup drive that I plug in on occasion, encrypted of
           | course.
           | 
           | Which reminds me my RAID6 drives are getting old now... I'm
           | tempted to move to a VPS.
        
           | ang_cire wrote:
           | It is very service-dependent. If you are wanting to run a NAS
           | for e.g. a media server, you may want to look into Cloudflare
           | Tunnels or Tailscale.
           | 
           | I set up Jellyfin and Kavita, and those are internet-exposed,
           | but also Nextcloud, and Portainer, and Calibre, and those are
           | behind github SSO auth, via Cloudflare. Basically, before you
           | can hit the nextcloud login page, you have to auth to github
           | (as me) with 2FA first, so no one can sit there and try to
           | brute-force my nextcloud login.
        
         | bongobingo1 wrote:
         | Hm, is there a name for the type of software that Coolify is,
         | where it presents a management plane for _other_ servers, vs
         | Dokku where it runs _on_ the server?
        
           | b_shulha wrote:
           | Coolify and others mentioned on that website can run on the
           | server itself as well.
           | 
           | It happened that Coolify provides the paid option to sponsor
           | the development, but it is not mandatory.
        
         | apitman wrote:
         | This is pretty nice. I see sish and inlets. I have a lot more
         | similar tools on my list here:
         | https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling
         | 
         | For auth, I also made a comparison of OIDC servers here:
         | https://github.com/lastlogin-net/obligator#comparison-is-the...
        
       | leosanchez wrote:
       | Miniflux is very good. It even has a telegram integration which
       | will send you notification whenever a new article is published
        
         | loremm wrote:
         | in general, it's worth noting telegram bots are easy (free) to
         | make and messages can be sent with one cURL command. Very
         | useful, you can even set it up to send after long terminal
         | commands so you know to check back
        
           | leosanchez wrote:
           | I am aware. I use it with my backup scripts. But I felt it
           | was cool integration
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | But then someone whispers K8S into your ear...
        
         | jasonjayr wrote:
         | That reminds me ... I have to go feed my homelab K3S cluster
         | some updated CRDs to plan for the next upgrade window ...
        
           | infogulch wrote:
           | k8s was born from devs unconscious desire for another
           | tamagotchi pet
        
       | arrty88 wrote:
       | I'm a big fan of self hosting. I have learned a lot on a small
       | hobby project.
       | 
       | for those who are curious about my setup, I bought a used Dell
       | R630 on ebay for cheap. 1tb raid 1 on ssds, 32gb ram, 32 cores,
       | and i am enjoying running a few small hobby apps with docker,
       | virsh, and minikube (yes i learned all 3). I have a 1gbps fiber
       | connection. I use a 1m cronjob to detect if my IP changes, and i
       | use the linode api to change my DNS A records.
        
       | chadsix wrote:
       | I am part of a company that promotes self hosting and provides
       | external routing for self hosting [1]
       | 
       | We made Cloud Seeder [2] an open source application that makes
       | deploying and managing your self-hosted server a 1-click issue!
       | 
       | Hope this comes in handy for someone! :-)
       | 
       | [1] https://ipv6.rs
       | 
       | [2] https://ipv6.rs/cloudseeder
       | https://github.com/ipv6rslimited/cloudseeder
        
         | DanAtC wrote:
         | I like the concept, but only 5 IPs? With IPv6 you should be
         | offering at least a /64 per tunnel.
        
           | chadsix wrote:
           | Great point!
           | 
           | We offer 5 because we're geared toward helping people host
           | appliances as opposed to raw network setup! We also offer
           | automatic RDNS with this as well as the Cloud Seeder
           | appliance!
           | 
           | Thanks again for your comments and as well thoughts!
        
         | xiconfjs wrote:
         | From the FAQ: * Q: "What about IPv4?"
         | 
         | * A: "While IPv4 is still widely used, its necessity is
         | diminishing as the world transitions to IPv6. (...)"
         | 
         | ;)
        
       | cutler wrote:
       | 1.5Gb RAM/10Gb disk? Hetzner's basic cloud VPS comes with 4Gb RAM
       | and 40Gb disk for E4.51.
        
         | Ringz wrote:
         | Do you have an eye on the (potential) price difference?
        
       | massysett wrote:
       | I'm an old-timer, I'm surprised that paying for shared hosting is
       | now "self-hosting." Nothing wrong with that, but that would never
       | have been called self-hosting ten years ago.
       | 
       | I guess it's like how "cooking from scratch" evolved. A cookbook
       | from the nineteenth century might have said "1 hog" as an
       | ingredient and instructed you to slaughter it. Now of course you
       | buy hog pieces on foam trays.
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | Seems to me the term "self-hosting" tends to auto-adjust its
         | position based on the other end. So if "not self-hosting" is
         | hosting on a shared VPS, then self-hosting is hosting on a
         | computer at home. But "not self-hosting" has now become "hosted
         | in cloud" so self-hosting moved to "shared VPS" instead, as the
         | other end moved.
         | 
         | Kind of makes sense, but kind of also makes historical texts
         | more difficult to understand. In the year 2124, who know what
         | "self-hosting" meant in 2054? I guess it's up to future
         | software archeologists to figure out.
        
           | icedchai wrote:
           | Yes, the goalposts move. When I started w/the internet 30+
           | years ago, self hosting meant your own 56K leased line.
        
         | kayson wrote:
         | There are definitely plenty of people who would say that using
         | a hosting provider doesn't count, even if you're deploying the
         | software yourself.
         | 
         | The one generally accepted exception to this is network
         | protection. You don't want to expose your home ip address to
         | the outside world if you can help it, so a lot of people use
         | tailscale, cloud flare tunnels, or a vps as a proxy.
        
           | Cyph0n wrote:
           | A VPS that proxies traffic over Tailscale is another neat
           | option. I use this approach to serve self-hosted services
           | that I want to be accessible over the internet.
        
             | bauruine wrote:
             | Why use Tailscale if you can just setup a WireGuard tunnel?
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Tailscale is far, far less work to set up and maintain.
               | Not to use a cliche, but it reminds me of Dropbox vs.
               | rsync.
               | 
               | If you know Wireguard well enough to set up your own and
               | you're willing, you'll have a lot more control and less
               | dependency, which is a win IMHO. But if you are limited
               | by time and/or knowledge, Tailscale is great
        
               | darkwater wrote:
               | Aren't we talking about self-hosting, tinkering with your
               | software for fun and hobby instead of going the SaaS way?
               | Arguing about WG instead of TS in this context is
               | perfectly fine
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Indeed, if you got the impression from my comment that I
               | didn't think a debate on WG vs. TS was fine, then I
               | apologize. I think it's a great (and important) thing to
               | debate. My opinion is as stated. I think it's a different
               | cost-benefit analysis for each person depending on time
               | and/or knowledge.
        
               | darkwater wrote:
               | Don't worry!
               | 
               | Staying on the topic, I wonder how easy/complicated is to
               | self-host Head scale, which is the opensource
               | implementation of the TS server.
        
               | al_borland wrote:
               | Some people want the control without it becoming a full
               | time hobby.
               | 
               | I wanted a NAS. I could do it with Linux and ZFS, rolling
               | my own with full control. However, I didn't want to sink
               | that much time into it, and figured when something needed
               | to be done, I would have forgotten so much I'd need to
               | relearn over and over again.
               | 
               | Instead I went with a Synology. I get my NAS, I'm in
               | control of my data, I can run some stuff with Docker on
               | it... but I don't really have to spend any time playing
               | sys admin on my weekends.
        
               | aae42 wrote:
               | i self-host TS (headscale), so maybe not mutually
               | exclusive
        
               | Saris wrote:
               | Just ease of use mostly, Tailscale works even behind
               | CGNAT and automatically manages things for you.
        
               | apitman wrote:
               | I think you're unlikely to have a very good experience
               | with Tailscale behind CGNAT if you're doing anything high
               | bandwidth like video streaming from a Plex/Jellyfin
               | server.
               | 
               | AFAIK Tailscale only supports 2 modes of connection:
               | direct connect or relayed over WebSockets with their DERP
               | protocol. CGNAT is going to limit you to DERP, which is
               | not designed for transmitting a lot of data. For one
               | thing, that could get rather expensive for Tailscale.
        
               | Saris wrote:
               | Oh yeah it's not going to be very fast, but for general
               | usage that doesn't involve large transfers it's fine.
        
               | icedchai wrote:
               | I have a VPS configured for BGP peering, using my own
               | ASN, tunneling an IPv4 block and a couple of IPv6 blocks
               | back to my home network over a wireguard tunnel. These
               | wind up on their own VLANs, exposing a few VMs directly
               | to the Internet.
               | 
               | It took a bit of time to set this up (and I fortunately
               | had the V4 block already registered from back in the
               | 90's.) I also had experience with BGP from previous jobs
               | at early ISPs, which helped. Proxying is easier.
        
               | ang_cire wrote:
               | In my case I am just interested in the software I'm
               | running behind the proxy. I use CF tunnels to expose my
               | internal services, and spend my tinkering time on the
               | actual services, rather than (to me) wasting the time to
               | bother with worrying about updating IPs or setting up
               | custom auth schemes (I keep a lot of my services locked
               | down entirely behind github SSO, so you can't even reach
               | my e.g. Jellyfin login page without first being auth'd to
               | github as me, which basically prevents all brute-force
               | attempts on my services).
        
           | stuckkeys wrote:
           | Cloudflare?
        
         | hoosieree wrote:
         | Yeah, my list of requirements for self-hosting starts with:
         | 
         | 1. battery backup
         | 
         | That said, I'm not zealous about it. "Perfect is the enemy of
         | good" and I like ecosystem diversity in general. Better to have
         | a few dozen shared hosting providers than 2 or 3 monopolies.
        
         | eximius wrote:
         | Every time this sentiment comes up I'm reminded that it's a
         | spectrum.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I agree with you.
         | 
         | and so does the author, kind of...
         | 
         | "And so, here is a gentle introduction to self-hosting that is
         | not "true self-hosting", but whatever. Sue me."
         | 
         | :)
        
           | transpute wrote:
           | _> Sue me_
           | 
           | Or read an HN thread on "true self-hosting",
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41440855#41460999
        
         | _heimdall wrote:
         | I must be becoming an old timer too, I only really consider it
         | self hosting if its on my own hardware.
         | 
         | In case that doesn't make me an old timer, I also actually have
         | pork and home cured bacon in the freezer from hogs we raised
         | and processed. "An old soul living in a new world" feels pretty
         | fitting here.
        
         | apitman wrote:
         | There are other issues with the terminology as well. The self
         | hosting community (centered at /r/selfhosted) has a very
         | technical vibe. These people enjoy tinkering with computers.
         | They're like kit car builders.
         | 
         | But there's a whole market of people who could benefit from
         | self hosting, but shouldn't be required to understand all the
         | details.
         | 
         | For example, you can get many of these benefits by using a
         | managed service with your own domain. Things like data
         | ownership, open source software, provider competition, etc.
         | 
         | I think we need a broader term. I've been using "indie hosting"
         | lately.
        
           | simcop2387 wrote:
           | This is the kind of thing I've been watching unfold with some
           | home "NAS" boxes over the past couple of years. It started
           | much earlier but it's started to become more of a
           | differentiating factor in some of the lines lately because
           | the NAS side of things is basically entirely a solved problem
           | for 99% of people, so the manufacturers (Synology, QNAP,
           | Terramaster, U-Green, etc.) have been adding support for
           | doing what looks a lot like turn-key installation of things
           | like NextCloud, Plex, and a bunch of other services that the
           | self-hosting community has been talking about for years.
           | 
           | I think one of the big drivers of it has been the serious
           | increase in performance and capability of the low power
           | embedded processors from Intel and AMD (and in the last year
           | or so some ARM based ones), like supporting more than 2GB of
           | ram and having multiple cores that can meaningfully do work
           | even with a 15W TDP.
        
             | Dalewyn wrote:
             | I am of the impression that Synology is pivoting away.
             | 
             | >Starting from this version, the processing of media files
             | using HEVC (H.265), AVC (H.264), and VC-1 codecs will be
             | transitioned from the server to end devices to reduce
             | unnecessary resource usage on the system and enhance system
             | efficiency.
             | 
             | https://www.synology.com/en-us/releaseNote/DSM
             | 
             | They say it's to "reduce unnecessary resource usage" and
             | "enhance efficiency", I say it's the start of a race to the
             | bottom of the barrel now that the market is saturated and
             | BOMs start weighing heavier.
        
               | apitman wrote:
               | If my device supports the native format of the content, I
               | definitely want it decoded there rather than transcoding
               | on the server. Assuming said format isn't significantly
               | more power hungry than the transcoded codec.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | I call it self-hosting when it's on your server, and hosting
           | at home, if we want to be specific that the server is at
           | home.
        
             | apitman wrote:
             | What would you call it if it's hosted on someone else's
             | server, but using open source software under your domain,
             | and you have a complete backup of all the data so you could
             | move it home or to another provider whenever you want?
        
               | transpute wrote:
               | For the last 30 years, that's been called "web hosting"
               | [1]:                 Shared custody       No
               | confidentiality       Portable domain identity
               | 
               | [1] https://www.webhostingtalk.com
        
               | apitman wrote:
               | If someone thinks to themselves: "I really don't like the
               | ways twitter is changing. I'm leaving, but is there
               | anything I can do to avoid the same thing happening with
               | some other app/company?"
               | 
               | If they search around for an answer to that question,
               | pretty soon someone is going to tell them to "self-host a
               | Mastodon instance" or in the near future "self-host an
               | ATProto instance".
               | 
               | My point is that the term "self-hosting" is unlikely to
               | get them what they want, unless they happen to be
               | interested in learning about DNS, IP addresses, ports,
               | port forwarding, routers, firewalls, NAT, CGNAT, TLS,
               | TCP, HTTP, web servers, Linux, updates, backups, etc,
               | etc.
               | 
               | I don't think "web hosting" is going to help them much
               | either.
               | 
               | What most people want is something like a Mastodon
               | instance from masto.host[0] that integrates with a
               | service like TakingNames[1] (which I own) to delegate DNS
               | with OAuth2. I think we need a new term for this sort of
               | setup. I think the term should also include self-hosting
               | solutions, as long as those solutions focus on the
               | outcomes (having a car to drive), not the implementation
               | (building a kit car).
               | 
               | [0]: https://masto.host/
               | 
               | [1]: https://takingnames.io/blog/introducing-takingnames-
               | io
        
               | transpute wrote:
               | _> don 't like the ways twitter is changing. I'm leaving_
               | 
               | Has there been work to quantify relative network effects
               | in Twitter vs Mastodon, either generally or in specific
               | communities? e.g. if person A was following N people on
               | Twitter (e.g. in a list), what subset or superset of N
               | could be followed on Mastdon?
               | 
               | If a user requested all their data from Twitter,
               | including people being followed, is there any tooling to
               | map user identity/handles from Twitter to member names on
               | decentralized alternatives?
               | 
               |  _> someone is going to tell them to  "self-host a
               | Mastodon instance.. from masto.host_
               | 
               | Wouldn't that be masto-hosted rather than self-hosted?
               | 
               | In that scenario, Masto.host would be a trusted
               | _custodian_ of a social media identity, somewhat like a
               | bank.
        
           | nielsole wrote:
           | "digital souvereignity" maybe?
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Hosting from home was always subject to home ISP ToS limits on
         | doing that very thing. When I self-hosted in the early days, it
         | was still paying someone to mount my system in their rack and
         | use their network. So whether that was hardware that I rented
         | from them, built the box myself, or using a VM they provide,
         | it's still the same amount of work to maintain it. That's still
         | different from using Wix/Squarespace, geocities, or using a
         | social media platform.
        
           | ang_cire wrote:
           | > was always subject to home ISP ToS limits on doing that
           | very thing
           | 
           | Every ISP prohibition on self-hosting that I have seen
           | specifies commercial use, not just hosting services (since
           | obviously that could technically prohibit tons of normal and
           | authorized uses like co-op games).
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | I have always understood self-hosting to mean being in charge
         | of your applications and data instead of delegating it to a
         | company. An example might be, setting up Nextcloud instead of
         | Dropbox. Or Taiga instead of Trello.
         | 
         | WHERE and HOW it is hosted, is less important to me. Because if
         | you self-host your own tools, you can freely pick them up and
         | move them to any hosting provider, a cloud provider, or a
         | Raspberry Pi in your basement. Self-hosting FREES you from
         | infra/vendor lock-in.
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | But isn't using a 3rd party web host giving up some of that
           | control. Hopefully a reputable hosting company won't shutdown
           | at a moments notice, but could. Or if they go down, you're
           | stuck sitting there waiting for them to come back online with
           | no access to your services.
           | 
           | Hosting from home has its own challenges, so I get why people
           | would go to a hosting provider, but I do think some control
           | is given up in the process.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | You retain most of the control. You have actual laws
             | protecting you from them snooping on your database. If it
             | goes down, then you have a backup, right? so redeploy the
             | backup onto any other provider or at home.
        
               | user01010 wrote:
               | What of the event that your SSDs, HDDs, Discs, home
               | devices, etc... stop working? Fire up Torrents or go back
               | to Usenet? Just asking, but you still have online backups
               | and they can't check your database right.
        
         | hk1337 wrote:
         | I'm not sure what your classification of "old-timer" is with
         | how it compares to me but I would think of myself as an old-
         | timer as Gen X.
         | 
         | I feel like there's another term for what you're thinking of
         | but I cannot come up with what it is.
         | 
         | Self-hosting definitely was locally hosted on your own hardware
         | back when hosting providers like Linode, Digital Ocean, AWS,
         | etc existed or were as customizable.
         | 
         | Even corporations "self-host" GitHub Enterprise or Gitlab when
         | they set it up on AWS. Self-host just means you're not reliant
         | on creator of the application to host it for you and manage the
         | server.
         | 
         | There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to self-
         | hosting on your own hardware, as there are to using a hosting
         | provider.
        
           | user01010 wrote:
           | You reckon you could even use Github to archive some small
           | things? If Github or GitLab suffers, then some parts of the
           | internet will also have problems, correct? Legitimately
           | asking, is there any way for Github to go around searching
           | for "no-code" content through countless private repositories?
        
             | hk1337 wrote:
             | I don't think Github could read your self-hosted Github
             | instance unless there's some code in there that calls back
             | home or provides home the ability to search code in your
             | instance.
             | 
             | In the beginning, self-hosting was seen as completely local
             | partially because there were no good options for hosting on
             | a server, so that's probably where it sort became
             | synonymous with hosting it in your home.
        
         | lelanthran wrote:
         | > I'm an old-timer, I'm surprised that paying for shared
         | hosting is now "self-hosting." Nothing wrong with that, but
         | that would never have been called self-hosting ten years ago.
         | 
         | Depends, maybe? Was the speaker talking about hardware or
         | software 10 years ago?
         | 
         | Because, when I was given the 'self-hosting' option by some
         | SaaS vendor, it meant that I could host it on whatever I want
         | to independent of the vendor, whether that is a rack in my
         | bedroom or a DO droplet.
         | 
         | When I was given the 'self-hosting' option by some computer
         | vendor (Dell, HP, Sun, etc), it meant that I can put the unit
         | into a rack in my bedroom.
         | 
         | Context was always key; in my mind, nothing has changed.
        
         | ang_cire wrote:
         | If you are using a hosting provider, you are by definition not
         | "self hosting", since you are in fact, not hosting (unless you
         | happen to own the hosting provider company).
         | 
         | I _actually_ self-host tools, and that involves having (in my
         | case) a couple of rackmount servers in my spare bathroom, and
         | an rPi5 with a 4x m.2 hat on my desk. Hell, even just running
         | stuff on your own desktop /laptop is self-hosting.
         | 
         | But PaaS and SaaS are just as not-self-hosted as IaaS is. It's
         | literally cloud hosting.
        
         | bankcust08385 wrote:
         | Renting space in a colo and running EBGP on leased dark fiber
         | to HE is real self hosting. VPSes while more convenient are
         | definitely nothing like running metal.
         | 
         | For a lot of stuff that doesn't need constant public network
         | connectivity, I choose to run a home lab.
        
       | from-nibly wrote:
       | > Practically, it is foolishness, for what you save in money you
       | lose in time and sanity.
       | 
       | Kubernetes gets a lot of side eyes in the self-hosted community.
       | That's all of self hosting though. So why not go all in?
       | 
       | I've got 3 dell r720XDs running nixos with k3s in multi master
       | mode. It runs rook/ceph for storage, and I've got like 12 hard
       | drives in various sizes. My favorite party trick is yoinking a
       | random hard drive out of the cluster while streaming videos. Does
       | not care. Plug it back in and it's like nothing happened. I've
       | still got tons of room and I keep finding useful things to host
       | on it.
        
         | kayson wrote:
         | Plenty of people use k8s or k3s for self hosting. But for most,
         | the added complexity doesn't buy enough for the trade-off to be
         | worth it. Keep in mind most people have a single node, so
         | docker does everything they need.
         | 
         | Personally, even with a 4 node setup (of tiny desktops; the
         | hardware you have would easily cost me $200/mo in power bills),
         | I use docker swarm. Old and unloved, but does everything I need
         | for multi node deployment and orchestration with only a sliver
         | more complexity than vanilla docker.
        
           | from-nibly wrote:
           | Yeah don't ask me about my power bill, It's definitely in the
           | vanity realm. I have cheap power where I live so it's not
           | anywhere near $200. Still too high though. One day I'll get
           | solar to offset it.
        
         | Cyph0n wrote:
         | I just use NixOS as a VM and run services as containers
         | directly. Self-plug: I wrote a tool that makes it easy to run
         | Docker Compose projects on NixOS [1].
         | 
         | This way, I get the advantages of NixOS config, while also
         | being able to run arbitrary applications that might not be
         | available on nixpkgs.
         | 
         | As far as storage goes, I just use ZFS on the hypervisor
         | (Proxmox) and expose that over NFS locally.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/aksiksi/compose2nix
        
       | ed_mercer wrote:
       | Once you graduate from this guide, be sure to check /r/homelab
       | and /r/homedatacenter ;)
        
         | meonkeys wrote:
         | And https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted , and
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ . There are a few useful
         | Matrix chat rooms related to self-hosting, too:
         | #selfhosted:matrix.org , #self-hosted:jupiterbroadcasting.com ,
         | #steadfast:matrix.org
        
       | meonkeys wrote:
       | The author nails it here:
       | 
       | > It is 2024, and I say it is time we revisited some of the
       | fundamental joys of setting up our own systems.
       | 
       | Self-hosting really is joyful. It's that combination of learning,
       | challenge, and utility.
       | 
       | +1 to Actual Budget
       | 
       | +1 to Changedetection.io
       | 
       | -1 for not mentioning threat modeling / security. The author uses
       | HTTPS but leaves their websites open to the public internet.
       | First-timers should host LAN-only or lock their stuff way down. I
       | guess that's tricky with shared hosting without some kind of IP
       | restriction or tunneling, though. No idea if uberspace offers
       | something like that.
       | 
       | For folks getting past the initial stages of self-hosting, I'd
       | really recommend something like Docker to run more and more
       | different apps side by side. Bundled dependencies FTW. Shameless
       | plug for my book, which covers the Docker method:
       | https://selfhostbook.com
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | OK:                   This has not been a detailed step by step
       | walkthrough          on how to do things, by design. You are
       | meant to go and explore;          this is simply a way pointer to
       | invigorate your curiosities
       | 
       | Sorry, but because I came looking for solutions, I found the
       | invigoration aggravating, but then helpful in focusing my
       | attention.
       | 
       | Scalable services and sites I can build, 10 different ways.
       | 
       | My enduring, blocking need is for dead-simple idiot-proof network
       | management to safely poke a head out on public IP from home. And
       | to make secure peer-to-peer connections. Somehow that process
       | never converges on a solution in O(available) time.
       | 
       | </complaining>
        
         | transpute wrote:
         | _> dead-simple idiot-proof_
         | 
         | Recent thread:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41440855#41460999
         | 
         |  _> network management to safely poke a head out on public IP
         | from home_
         | 
         | For remote access to private services, would
         | Tailscale/Wireguard be an option? It can even use Apple TV as
         | an exit node.
         | 
         |  _> secure peer-to-peer connections_
         | 
         | Which protocols would you consider secure for P2P use, e.g.
         | which solutions have you tried previously which failed to
         | converge?
        
       | transpute wrote:
       | "Why I self host my servers and what I've recently learned", 130+
       | comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41440855
        
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