[HN Gopher] Thoughts and Observations in the Wake of Apple's 'It...
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       Thoughts and Observations in the Wake of Apple's 'It's Glowtime'
       Keynote
        
       Author : tambourine_man
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2024-09-16 19:47 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (daringfireball.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (daringfireball.net)
        
       | talldayo wrote:
       | > That fat Nano was quirky. It was also, in hindsight, obviously
       | a mistake. I'm quite sure that inside Apple there were designers
       | and product people who thought it was a mistake before it
       | shipped. Steve Jobs shipped it anyway, surely because his gut
       | told him it was the right thing to try. Tim Cook's Apple doesn't
       | make mistakes like that.
       | 
       | Look, I'm willing to accept a certain level of fanboyish Apple
       | defense, especially from Gruber. It _does_ seem like a bit of a
       | stretch to say the fat iPod Nano was a failure for selling 10
       | million+ units but the Vision Pro somehow wasn 't a mistake by
       | comparison.
        
         | itronitron wrote:
         | hopefully at some point they'll return to non-fat iphones as
         | well
        
         | emsy wrote:
         | I love the fat nano. I was said when its battery died. I love
         | my iPhone Mini (besides iOS being a bit too dumbed down still).
         | Apple should make more hardware for niches.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | He didn't say it was a flop. I know people who liked it.
         | 
         | But Apple obviously didn't think it was the right track because
         | they abandoned it and went back towards the previous form
         | factor.
         | 
         | I'd say the Vision Pro is different. I'm not sure they got the
         | form factor wrong. Maybe some adjustments needed, but I don't
         | think the core design is wrong.
         | 
         | Also a ton of the Vision Pros issues have nothing to do with
         | the physical design. The cost is massive to get components
         | (mostly the screens) that can achieve what they want. Their
         | normal profit margins makes it worse. OS and App Store policies
         | blunt the utility. Refusing to let developers have them until
         | release meant no/few killer apps. US only for 6 months made all
         | that worse.
         | 
         | In my mind it's a totally different thing.
        
       | iorrus wrote:
       | Obvious counter argument is the Vision Pro
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | That's like the Lisa. It needs Steve to make it palatable to
         | everyone.
        
         | ggrelet wrote:
         | No mention of it in the article, even though they wrote: > But
         | it's also why Cook's Apple delivers fewer surprises. The
         | delight is still there, but there's less amazement.
         | 
         | The Vision Pro is literally mind blowing.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | But it's not changing the world. It seems to be doing very
           | poorly, at least partially due to Apple's policies. The price
           | obviously doesn't help.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | > The Vision Pro is literally mind blowing.
           | 
           | Mind-blowingly stupid? I used an Oculus Rift DK2 in 2014; the
           | fact that Apple could brute-force a similar product with no
           | market fit and slightly more "magic" in it hasn't impressed
           | me the slightest. Add in the fact that it's slower than an
           | iPad and costs as much as a used car and the thing is dead-
           | on-arrival. Meta ate Apple's lunch with $500 headsets and
           | Valve dominated the high-end with better controllers and
           | software for years. The only way Apple can create market fit
           | is by inventing a new price segment (read: Stupid Expensive)
           | and leveraging their branding to do the heavy lifting.
           | 
           | Apple rejected Khronos standards for years, avoided OpenXR
           | during it's development, and got cut off from SteamVR after
           | Valve gave up engineering support. They have so many loose
           | ends to tie up that it's kinda hilarious anyone thinks Apple
           | is a competitor in this industry, at this point. Vision Pro
           | isn't an iPhone moment, it's a Lisa moment. We'll count
           | ourselves lucky for each one we're not burying in a landfill.
        
           | mingus88 wrote:
           | I agree, but I didn't feel amazed until I actually scheduled
           | a demo and used it
           | 
           | There have been so many bad VR headsets. I remember trying
           | Doom on one in the 90s and getting motion sickness
           | immediately. I also wear glasses so it's never been great to
           | wear anything else.
           | 
           | I wouldn't be surprised if the Vision Pro is just not getting
           | any attention due to the high bar to actually use one. It's
           | not something you can describe that hasn't been polluted by
           | prior experiences with VR
        
       | thenewwazoo wrote:
       | > My dissatisfaction flying home from last week's event is,
       | ultimately, selfish. I miss having my mind blown. I miss being
       | utterly surprised.
       | 
       | Welcome to middle age, John. I'm here too, so I can't tell you
       | what comes next, but I hope it's more fun.
        
       | EMIRELADERO wrote:
       | > I've been pondering this for the remainder of the week. One
       | factor is that the iPhone defined the apex of personal computing.
       | In the early years of PCs, everyone knew we wanted portability.
       | Most of us -- including me -- thought we reached that with
       | laptops. But laptops don't go with us everywhere, and, it turns
       | out, we want computers that go with us everywhere. That's the
       | iPhone, and the original iPhone in 2007 established the all-
       | touch-screen form factor and general concept right out of the
       | gate. That first iPhone blew our minds the moment Steve Jobs
       | showed it to us.
       | 
       | Gruber seems to think of iPhones as portable, use-everywhere
       | computers when such characterization puts Apple in good light.
       | However, his opinion about what the iPhone is seems to change
       | when dealing with sideloading and, in general, App Store
       | shenanigans:
       | 
       | > The iPhone and iPad are not PCs; they're consoles for games and
       | apps.
       | 
       | (From
       | https://daringfireball.net/2024/01/coming_to_grips_with_appl...)
        
         | idle_zealot wrote:
         | Yeah, he's consistently frustrating on this issue. It seems he
         | actively wants Apple to control general-purpose computing and
         | will make whatever characterization necessary for that to sound
         | reasonable. I really wish we had portable general-purpose
         | pocket computers, but there isn't really an option on the
         | market for that, and it's not a hardware issue.
        
         | andrewmutz wrote:
         | His perspective is as pro-Apple as it gets. This article about
         | his keynote disappointment was mostly spent fawning over apples
         | headphones and watch and how Tim Cook is a sage. Unable to
         | criticize Apple for anything, he even concludes his remarks
         | blaming himself.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | I agree.
           | 
           | Honestly I think apple has become both too impersonal and too
           | controlling.
           | 
           | SJ at the helm would have made things more personal, and
           | might have headed off all the rot that has led to poor
           | developer relations, anti-trust, and relentless profiteering
           | without clear benefits.
        
         | WoodenChair wrote:
         | Yes, he's what I've termed an Apple apologist:
         | https://www.observationalhazard.com/2021/08/apple-apologetic...
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | "I've termed"? People have been calling him that for 20+
           | years.
           | 
           | I disagree with the characterization.
        
       | mafuyu wrote:
       | Computing and the Internet have matured and become so much more
       | central to daily life. For better or worse, that's going to put
       | limits on the quirks something like a smartphone can have. If
       | your photo library, banking, social media, or even job depends on
       | your phone, it really does need to be rock solid and reliable.
       | 
       | I think what people forget is pre-iPhone, we all saw _something_
       | coming. Maybe we didn't expect it to look exactly like the
       | iPhone, but there was a sense of excitement around what was
       | coming next for computing. Sony Style magazine was still in
       | print. eCommerce was picking up. Palm phones, Blackberry, Windows
       | Mobile. Super quirky laptops and UMPCs. I remember lusting after
       | some wildly impractical UMPCs, because it meant that everything I
       | did on my desktop could now fit in my pocket.
       | 
       | Even after smartphones took off, I remember sometimes thinking
       | "man, imagine in the future when this stuff is good and it
       | actually just works." A lot of stuff was basically just demos
       | back then. Well, here we are. A huge portion of my life happens
       | on my iPhone, and that really does mean it has to Just Work.
        
       | DaoVeles wrote:
       | I get it, being mind blown in this industry is getting further
       | apart with time. It is just that the industry is becoming mature,
       | we have picked most of the low hanging fruit and now it is a case
       | of refining the refinded. Triple distilled design in action. More
       | broadly this is a middle aged industry and unfortunately it is
       | leading to some mid life crisis moments like metaverse, crypto
       | hype and AI everything but generally it is still in decent shape,
       | at least when you ignore some details.
       | 
       | The last time I was blown away by any tech would have been the
       | first time using generative AI stuff, yes we figured out its
       | limits, but just that feeling of being able to just type
       | something and just have these thing created on demand was wild.
       | The time before that, I couldnt really say, it has been that
       | long. Maybe seeing realtime raytracing on commodity hardware and
       | even that wasnt ground breaking.
       | 
       | In a way it us like the 10th season of a sitcom, we know all the
       | characters and it is familiar but nothing much is new or fresh
       | any more. The jokes are still fine and the catch phrases are
       | there but it all just feels same-ish. That is ok so long as that
       | is your expectation.
        
       | gtvwill wrote:
       | Buys a vanilla bean but get surprised when it's plain and simple.
       | Not sure what he expected. Apple is a cash cow harvesting brand
       | loyalty. 2 years of r&d and they got what? A usbc port and a
       | button? Folks are joking if they think this is the peak of tech.
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | > If anything, under Cook, Apple more consistently achieves near-
       | perfection. Tolerances are tighter. Ship dates seldom slip.
       | 
       | I'm surprised that Gruber doesn't mention the fact that Apple is
       | now in the habit of announcing products or features 6+ months
       | before they ship, both software and hardware (not talking about
       | things like the iPhone which have to be submitted to the FCC).
       | And sometimes, they never ship at all (see AirPower). This would
       | never happen under Jobs.
       | 
       | Also, while Steve Jobs straight up lied in order to protect
       | future announcements (i.e. 'we're not making a video iPod', Tim
       | Cook will say things like 'we are very interested in the AR/VR
       | space' for close to a decade before announcing any products).
        
         | xuki wrote:
         | Steve Jobs announced a white iPhone 4 and couldn't ship it for
         | 6 months.
        
       | mystified5016 wrote:
       | Gods, how much longer until we all accept that phones have
       | reached a local (if not global) maximum?
       | 
       | There's really not much left to 'innovate'. More cameras, more
       | memory, bigger and bigger and bigger screens, less ports.
       | 
       | The next innovation here is gonna have to be a total paradigm
       | shift, and I'm not particularly convinced that Apple and/or
       | Google are capable of that anymore. The only levers in their
       | grasp left to pull are software. So now we are innundated with
       | capital-F Features. And these Features are so important that
       | users must be constantly bombarded with tips and popups and hints
       | and notifications telling them about the latest Features. Google
       | even calls their extremely normal and standard update cycle
       | 'Feature Drop'.
       | 
       | People just want to buy a phone that fits their preferred
       | physical dimensions, lasts at least most of the day, and
       | generally _does what you tell it and stays the hell out of the
       | way_.
       | 
       | Nobody, not one person on this planet wants their phone to swoop
       | in an animated rainbow-bordered modal telling them that their
       | calculator app now includes AI, for some reason, and that they
       | now are compelled to accept some new terms and license for a
       | calculator.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-16 23:01 UTC)