[HN Gopher] Nothing: Simply Do Nothing
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Nothing: Simply Do Nothing
        
       Author : psvisualdesign
       Score  : 399 points
       Date   : 2024-09-15 22:40 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (usenothing.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (usenothing.com)
        
       | ok_dad wrote:
       | That's a lot of text for nothing.
        
         | notfed wrote:
         | Seriously. Some feedback to author: the page is awesome up to
         | "You've been idle for X seconds." Delete every word after that.
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | But then you couldn't scroll and the punchline of even
           | scrolling resetting your timer would be lost.
        
       | TeaVMFan wrote:
       | Intriguing. Perhaps adding focus gained detection with a timer
       | reset would increase the motivation to do nothing.
        
         | tourmalinetaco wrote:
         | I had a notification pop down while looking at it and the timer
         | did reset, stopped, and said ,,that was definitely something.
         | Let's try nothing.". A neat little site, that's for sure. Also
         | worrying that websites can see when I receive a notification.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | That's probably just a detection of the tab losing focus.
           | 
           | Edit : nope, you just scrolled the page :) [0]
           | 
           | [0] : https://github.com/remvze/nothing/blob/5402ae06169c67bd
           | fa8b6...
        
       | makeitdouble wrote:
       | I thought it would just be a satirical post, except there's an
       | actual app and github repo with 20 commits.
       | 
       | Big respect to the dedication.
        
       | djaouen wrote:
       | Buddhism, son!
        
       | bschmidt1 wrote:
       | Breathing is something you can either do or not do, yet it's also
       | something that happens automatically, such as during sleep or
       | when you're not paying attention to it.
       | 
       | When done perfectly correctly, consciously breathing nets the
       | same benefits to the body as unconscious or automatic breathing.
       | You don't really have to spend any mental energy on it to get the
       | oxygen you need (your body will even yawn for you if it needs
       | more).
       | 
       | I think there is a way to find the ease and harmony in most
       | things, or, the "automatic modes". You can design your life in
       | such a way that you're essentially doing nothing, but to others
       | you appear to be involved in everything.
       | 
       | I can only imagine what it would be like to stop paddling and see
       | that I am still in motion, to be able to exhale and do nothing.
        
         | pjerem wrote:
         | > When done perfectly correctly, consciously breathing nets the
         | same benefits to the body as unconscious or automatic
         | breathing. You don't really have to spend any mental energy on
         | it to get the oxygen you need (your body will even yawn for you
         | if it needs more).
         | 
         | I was taught that this is not entirely true : your automatic
         | breathing is influenced by your morphology, your posture, your
         | current levels of energy, and your current emotions. And it
         | sounds like the feedback loop can go reverse : intentionally
         | breathing have an impact on your posture, your level of energy
         | and your emotion.
         | 
         | I have no source to support my claims so don't take my words as
         | any truth, that's just a belief multiple people shared to me
         | including my doctor.
         | 
         | But I do feel like intentional breathing have a direct impact
         | on my levels of anxiety. Not magic, but useful.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | I have had a similar insight.
         | 
         | People often wonder what advice they would give their younger
         | self. This would be it for me.
         | 
         | It something seems too difficult, it is likely because you are
         | still struggling with a pre-requisite. Go back to working on
         | the previous foundation until your mastery is complete.
         | 
         | This is true for work, mental & fitness progress.
         | 
         | I.e. if you find losing weight hard, you probably need to
         | improve your diet (not to lose weight, but to find healthy food
         | you enjoy enough to become a self-reinforcing habit).
         | 
         | Don't try to improve your diet in order to lose weight. That is
         | trying to solve two big things, on two different levels, at
         | once.
         | 
         | This may take a while, but eventually you can find your way to
         | an exceptionally healthy diet you like too much to require any
         | discipline to stay on.
         | 
         | That is a health foundation of lasting value. And with that
         | foundatiin, when you try to lose weight again, it is much
         | easier.
         | 
         | Likewise, if you find it is hard to improve your diet, even in
         | increments, perhaps you are fatigued? You may need to improve
         | your sleep routine until you are habitually not tired.
         | 
         | For some of us, that might take a lot of work. But focusing on
         | it, instead of downstream efforts will pay off.
         | 
         | Etc.
         | 
         | Foundations should be iterated on until they are self-
         | perpetuatingly solid. Then the next thing will be much easier.
         | 
         | Math and physics are mental versions.
         | 
         | The result for any path: Go slow (iterate & explore to complete
         | fluency & habit) to go fast (compounding instead of linear
         | gains in understanding & progress).
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | > ...exceptionally healthy diet you like too much to require
           | any discipline to stay on.
           | 
           | There's no such thing. Eating only 50 avocados a day (so
           | called "superfood") won't get you healthy or make you lose
           | weight.
           | 
           | Too much of anything is not healthy.
           | 
           | A "healthy diet" is matched up with your body, short- and
           | long-term needs, activities, mental state, etc.
           | 
           | I do agree with the suggested approach for achieving anything
           | significant, just nitpicking on some of the language in your
           | dieting example.
        
             | Nevermark wrote:
             | > Too much of anything is not healthy.
             | 
             | You have lost me. I said a healthy diet you love.
             | 
             | So critiquing me as suggesting anything that is not a
             | healthy diet seems odd.
             | 
             | A healthy diet can be created many ways, all involve a lot
             | of variety.
             | 
             | But it can be convenient too. If you find the right mix
             | (for your own tastes) of "superfoods" as a foundation. I.e.
             | hummus, mixed greens, mixed berries, a mix of nuts, a mix
             | of seeds, sardines, salmon & tuna (but not too much), eggs,
             | etc.
             | 
             | If your fridge, pantry, and eating habits cover all your
             | basic nutrition multiple ways by default, then adding a
             | variety of other healthy foods can be done very
             | spontaneously without any need for planning.
             | 
             | I know, it took me a few years, and a lot of iteration, but
             | it would be hard to beat my diet.
             | 
             | Even my snacks are up there, like edamame, chocolate in
             | moderation, fresh veggies, high protein low sugar ice
             | cream, etc.
             | 
             | Achieving healthy autopilot is the point.
        
               | necovek wrote:
               | In formal theory, it would be called a proof by
               | contradiction when extended to an extreme.
               | 
               | Even with the "right mix", if you eat 5x the amount your
               | lifestyle and body and mind need, you ain't ever going to
               | lose weight or get to a healthy state. Obese people are
               | (usually) obese because they eat too much, not just
               | because of the type of food they eat. Heck, today both
               | keto and vegan are considered "healthy" and they are on
               | the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to diet
               | choices.
               | 
               | I am basically arguing that, to an extent, it's more
               | important how _much_ you eat, vs what you eat. Again,
               | this is all comparative (eg. eating McDonalds burgers for
               | the rest of your life is  "healthy" compared to not
               | eating anything at all, but that's a useless
               | distinction).
               | 
               | Plenty of people in the past have eaten "unhealthy"
               | (white bread, fried meat and vegetables) yet didn't have
               | an obesity or health problem, because they countered that
               | with a balanced activity (physical work) and mental load
               | (shared responsibilities).
               | 
               | So my point is that you should reach that "autopilot" on
               | the amount of the food you get, and then you can be
               | pretty liberal in how you achieve it (obviously, don't
               | have chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner). I do
               | agree getting to the autopilot is where you should put
               | your effort to.
        
               | Nevermark wrote:
               | If you need to eat more, you need to eat more. You need a
               | different mix
               | 
               | There isn't a diet that works for everyone in both health
               | & physical & psychological diet needs
               | 
               | The point is always making progress. Accumulating foods
               | that work better. So learn and continually try things.
               | 
               | Anyone can make progress, that is beneficial.
               | 
               | I am still making progress, in food quality &
               | convenience, which blows my mind.
               | 
               | And I don't doubt there are medical and mental issues
               | that need more than a healthy diet intervention
               | 
               | But that doesn't eliminate the benefits from being
               | healthier, easier.
               | 
               | You don't know how much eating healthier automatically
               | will impact seemingly independent or counter issues until
               | trying. A sustained changed diet changes our responses to
               | food physically & mentally in significant & positive
               | ways.
               | 
               | My diet has changed me.
        
               | necovek wrote:
               | I don't doubt that, and good for you! In a sense, that
               | should be obvious to anyone who's ever been a bit more
               | edgy because they lacked the carbohydrates for the moment
               | ("eat some sugar"), but larger changes will certainly
               | trigger a larger change in body response (hormones,
               | energy levels, mood...).
               | 
               | From the get go, I only challenged the notion that the
               | main issue for people who want to lose weight is the type
               | of the food they eat, but instead, the _amount_ of the
               | food they eat.
               | 
               | It seems like we are arguing past each other though :)
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | Experimentally, increasing oxygen doesn't reduce how often
         | people yawn.
         | 
         | We still don't know why people (or various mammals) yawn.
        
           | koziserek wrote:
           | your body doesn't regulate its functions based on diminishing
           | o2 levels, but raising co2 levels
        
             | card_zero wrote:
             | That was tested too, according to the Wikipedia page about
             | yawns. Still no.
        
       | spiffytech wrote:
       | I've enjoyed using Sit, which is similar in spirit:
       | 
       | https://sonnet.io/posts/sit/
        
       | akira2501 wrote:
       | > taking a step back from the relentless grind, and reconnecting
       | with the world around you
       | 
       | The world does not want to connect with me. The world is in many
       | subtle ways actively trying to kill me, harm me, and reduce me.
       | If I'm taking time off it's for myself.
       | 
       | > rebellion against the incessant noise of modern life, which
       | demands constant action.
       | 
       | So does my own body. Eventually I'm going to get hungry no matter
       | how much nothing I do. Having stillness of mind allows purpose of
       | action. You've got it all backwards.
        
       | davidepaci wrote:
       | It doesn't reset when I alt+tab
        
       | knowitnone wrote:
       | you do nothing while I use your CPU to mine crypto. thanks
        
       | madpen wrote:
       | Neat! I've been reading How to Do Nothing by Jenny Odell and
       | enjoying it. It's a bit political for my liking but overall a
       | good reminder to pause and set aside time to just "be" and shelve
       | the programmed drive to constantly be productive as in
       | economically productive. My therapist recently helped me reframe
       | my drive for being productive as being generative, which I have
       | taken a liking to since it encompasses being creative for the
       | sake of enjoying the process with no other end - economic or
       | otherwise.
        
         | eleveriven wrote:
         | Was it hard to switch perspective?
        
       | DaoVeles wrote:
       | Really cool to remind people to do this but I also get a little
       | sense of irony that to really do this, just walk away from the
       | screen. Don't need an app to allow you to do nothing.
       | 
       | Not a put down at all, just that our strange little world has
       | come to this.
        
         | pjerem wrote:
         | I really do think it's more a message / a sort or artistic
         | expression, than an app :)
        
       | edweis wrote:
       | Looking at the source code, I have never seen so many files for
       | such a simple HTML page.
        
         | abdusco wrote:
         | Astro[0]: wrong tool for this job.
         | 
         | https://astro.build/
        
           | skrebbel wrote:
           | I assume the author is good at quickly whipping stuff up with
           | Astro, which makes it an excellent tool for the job.
        
         | rpigab wrote:
         | I'd advise a complete rewrite of Astro to Rust+WASM, then add
         | most of what Angular does inside the framework, then usenothing
         | will benefit from it.
        
         | lifthrasiir wrote:
         | I was also quite surprised, and I took a bit of challenge to
         | make it a single file that faithfully reproduces the exact
         | behavior and embeds _all_ dependencies including the web font,
         | besides from Inter which is only used for toasts and barely
         | distinguishable from Arial in this context. It weighs 3,123
         | bytes without the specifically subsetted font which takes
         | additional 10,433 bytes.
         | 
         | https://gist.github.com/lifthrasiir/f46725d3e9e9d055da40b3de...
        
           | archargelod wrote:
           | Really cool.
           | 
           | I know almost nothing about web dev, but that looked like a
           | nice quick challenge. So I spent maybe 20 minutes to get it
           | 90% there. It's missing a portion of text below the timer and
           | a toast. 1948 bytes
           | 
           | https://gist.github.com/Archargelod/d121ae5377a0d09b0133b7b0.
           | ..
        
           | alex_suzuki wrote:
           | You have improved nothing.
        
             | alex_suzuki wrote:
             | Joke obviously lost on some...
        
           | Gooblebrai wrote:
           | What were the main difficulties?
        
             | lifthrasiir wrote:
             | Implementing absolutely everything, because I wasn't sure
             | which part was intentional or not. My version even
             | replicates some bugs and subtle behaviors: for example the
             | toast animation lasts 5 seconds, which is measured from the
             | beginning of fade-in animation to the _beginning_ of fade-
             | out animation.
        
         | noobermin wrote:
         | Wtf, there's a great irony in this right here.
        
         | jonwinstanley wrote:
         | Surely a html web page and maybe 5 lines of JS could have
         | accomplished the same thing?
         | 
         | Or am I missing something?
        
           | alex_suzuki wrote:
           | No. See lifthrasiir's answer above.
        
       | shahzaibmushtaq wrote:
       | Doing nothing gets nothing in return, forget about easing your
       | mind.
        
       | sans_souse wrote:
       | I was expecting an xyzzy reference.
        
       | sys42590 wrote:
       | That reminds me of a specific (de)motivational video of one of my
       | favorite comedians Masood Boomgaard, which specifically covers
       | the rat race that prevails in todays workplace culture. While
       | it's meant to be funny, it actually touches some deeper
       | philosophical truths.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8An2SxNFvmU [Do Nothing - a
       | message of motivation from Self-help Singh- (un) motivational
       | speaker and life coach]
        
         | zingerlio wrote:
         | I relate so much to his recent video on Friday meetings.
        
         | eleveriven wrote:
         | Humor can often make such profound messages more accessible and
         | memorable...
        
         | bko wrote:
         | What philosophical truths?
         | 
         | I've known people that 'do nothing'. The modern day equivalent
         | of that is the pot head. It's a lot easier to do nothing when
         | you're stoned. The other alternative is the basement dweller
         | kid of a well to do couple that just spends his day playing
         | video games. Due to his parent's hard work (or luck), he can
         | probably afford to do so for the rest of his life. But still
         | seems depressing to me to think about.
        
           | elaus wrote:
           | But that kid in your example isn't doing _nothing_, they are
           | playing video games. That is entirely different from
           | consciously pausing and doing nothing.
        
           | grugagag wrote:
           | That kid is doing nothing with their life, there's a
           | difference between that and a nornal persob's downtime that
           | makes sure we don't task out with some goal that feels like
           | doing nothing but it's got some agenda: no planned activity!
        
           | helboi4 wrote:
           | If you're playing video games you're literally not doing
           | nothing. The point is to give yourself time to reflect and
           | breathe. If you're stoned and that makes it easy to meditate
           | for ages, you could probably count that as doing nothing.
           | Although you should probably worry if you simply cannot sit
           | still for any significant amount of time without being
           | stoned. But yeah if you're getting stoned and like watching
           | movies and stuffing your face then you're not doing nothing.
        
         | 01acheru wrote:
         | Thanks for the link! When it is well done comedy often covers
         | something more profound and summarizes it in an accessible and
         | more memorable manner just like the video you are talking
         | about.
         | 
         | "The world is fucked, and you cannot un-fuck it."
         | 
         | "You will die one day just as confused as you are now."
         | 
         | "Everything you think you need to do was done before you and
         | will be done after you."
         | 
         | "Whether you are fat or thin haters will hate."
         | 
         | "Nothing really matters."
         | 
         | There are some really deep insights in all of those thoughts,
         | thanks for sharing.
         | 
         | PS: this remembers me of a sketch about giraffes being an
         | animal created by a gay friend of the comedian, after the
         | sketch I learned that giraffes engage in male-male acts more
         | often than male-female acts and got mindblown. They have been
         | called "especially gay" for this fact.
        
         | gffrd wrote:
         | I hear the voice of the stoics in there ...
        
       | yetihehe wrote:
       | > There's no reward for lingering, just the peculiar pleasure of
       | simply being.
       | 
       | Reward: the numbers go up. Almost like idle clicker games, but
       | without clicking.
        
       | aussiethebob wrote:
       | Could we get a leaderboard feature
        
         | mjhagen wrote:
         | I made it to 2 minutes and 5 seconds.
        
           | rwoerz wrote:
           | Breathing, heart beats, and keeping the sphincter closed is
           | allowed.
        
       | GrumpyNl wrote:
       | This page is a great example how we got of rails with a webpage.
       | Its a very simple page, with a counter and some text. The files
       | and js needed to make it run is insane.
        
       | alganet wrote:
       | I don't get it. What is the difference between this website and
       | the rest of the internet?
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | You're actively do nothing instead of passively doing nothing.
        
           | oersted wrote:
           | Witty, I like it. It also highlights the subtle irony of
           | turning "doing nothing" into yet another thing you need to
           | optimize.
        
       | mipsi wrote:
       | And even when intentionally doing nothing, there is some obscure
       | desire to measure how much nothing we are actually doing. Hence
       | the idle counter.
        
         | thinkingemote wrote:
         | There's an idea that modern lives demand value in material
         | terms. Usually it's monetary value. It's based on materialism
         | and economics and can be seen most clearly in consumerism.
         | 
         | Even not spending time or money has to be worth something. Why
         | do nothing if I can't measure the benefits.
         | 
         | Another example of this could be in the adoption of
         | "Mindfulness" vs meditation. Mindfulness is a useful thing it
         | can be measured and it has an industry behind it.
         | 
         | It's a philosophy that we see more and more in every part of
         | our lives.
         | 
         | Consider art or poetry. Did people make art to be measured or
         | to be useful?
        
           | Frost1x wrote:
           | Utilitarianism definitely has a lot of well established
           | shortcomings, like quantifying utility and doing so
           | objectively which sort of, IMO, makes most of it nonsensical
           | as quantified utility is ultimately subjective unless you
           | want utility to be defined by a consensus, which is what we
           | do in practice. So it's really what the masses decide is
           | valuable and how valuable, even though we know from practice
           | that mass assessment isn't inherently accurate, good, or
           | often even desirable. Yet we do it because it looks
           | objectively analytic.
        
             | seadan83 wrote:
             | What is your definition of utilitarianism? Utilitarianism
             | is not a form of democracy. Good is not subject to a vote
             | and is not decided by the masses.
             | 
             | Fwiw: "Utilitarianism is a theory of morality that
             | advocates actions that foster happiness or pleasure and
             | oppose actions that cause unhappiness or harm. When
             | directed toward making social, economic, or political
             | decisions, a utilitarian philosophy would aim for the
             | betterment of society as a whole."
             | 
             | https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/utilitarianism.asp
        
           | hnthrowaway121 wrote:
           | > Did people make art to be measured or to be useful?
           | 
           | Quite often to put food on the table, or for clout. There's
           | an intrinsic desire to create, sure, but there's also a
           | cultural context in which art is valued and certain kinds of
           | art are valued more at different times or in different
           | places.
           | 
           | I suppose it's splitting hairs to say that art has some use
           | both for the creator and the consumer, because it's not the
           | same kind of use you mean.
           | 
           | It's just that when I dig in to "useful" vs "useless"
           | endevours there's often no clear line between them.
        
           | maroonblazer wrote:
           | There's a long history of visual art being created in the
           | service of god worship. Musical art too. Much of Bach's
           | oeuvre is in service to the god of the Protestant church.
        
           | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
           | > There's an idea that modern lives demand value in material
           | terms. All lives demand value in caloric or reproductive
           | terms. Economics teaches us that most commodities are
           | fungible. If you receive material value, this can be
           | exchanged for caloric or reproductive value. Thus, modern
           | (and non-modern) lives demand value in material terms. This
           | isn't a philosophy, it's just a fact.
           | 
           | It may tasteless to you, but most people are just trying to
           | achieve those material terms as efficiently as possible.
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | What happens when I already have all the calorific or
             | reproductive value I need? Endlessly seeking more _isn 't_
             | a fact.
        
               | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
               | > What happens when I already have all the calorific or
               | reproductive value I need?
               | 
               | How would you even determine how much you need? You labor
               | under the illusion that you're an intelligent being.
               | Evolution does not care about "enough"... because there
               | is no way to determine what "enough" is. What is enough
               | today will not help you survive tomorrow's famine. Best
               | stock up now. If you were so smart, you'd get that. What
               | others call _greed_ is subconscious anticipation of
               | calamity.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Evolution has not solved the principal-agent problem.
               | 
               | > _What is enough today will not help you survive
               | tomorrow 's famine._
               | 
               | Tomorrow's famine will be caused by _you_ (read: those
               | behaving as you describe) not knowing when enough is
               | enough. Best preserve what we have, rather than waste it
               | all in a frantic bid for number-goes-up.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Numbers go brrrt. It's the gamification of everything; lines of
         | code written, number of tasks ticked off, number of words
         | written in a day (often in the context of fanfictino, doesn't
         | matter if the story is good), shades of green on github, hours
         | slept, minutes meditated, seconds spent doing nothing according
         | to a website promoting the virtues of doing nothing.
         | 
         | I mean I get it, idle / factory games are one of my vices. But
         | I won't let it control my existence.
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | After a tragedy it's customary to call for a 'minute of
         | silence' even this purposeful exercise of nothing but thoughts
         | is measured in minutes too. I don't think it takes from the
         | desired outcome.
        
         | podgorniy wrote:
         | When you did nothing you must know how much of nothing you did
        
         | HappMacDonald wrote:
         | Yeah, but number go up.
        
       | mlukaszek wrote:
       | Missed the trick to detect lost window focus, which is easy to do
       | when you are using multiple monitors and very much NOT doing
       | nothing ;-)
        
         | tillcarlos wrote:
         | And a list of people doing nothing together with you.
        
       | phtrivier wrote:
       | For more brain explosion, compound that with a "memento mori"
       | timer that converts the time spend in "nothingness" into "how
       | much closer you are to eternal nothingness."
       | 
       | No wonder people watch TV, fight wars, or build startups to
       | forget that.
        
       | eleveriven wrote:
       | The essence of stepping away from the relentless pace of modern
       | life. But sometimes it is so hard to do nothing
        
       | noobermin wrote:
       | Generally when I ride the MRT I unwind and just stare and chill.
       | It helps that in a crowded train it's hard to fetch your phone
       | from your pocket, even though everyone else does it. I think just
       | by disposition I cannot physically stayed plugged in, otherwise I
       | lose myself.
        
       | physicsguy wrote:
       | There's a whole trend at the moment called 'raw dogging' (sigh)
       | that means to do something like take a flight with no
       | entertainment, books, phone turned off, etc. etc.
        
         | bondarchuk wrote:
         | Ah yes, raw dogging.
        
           | kranner wrote:
           | This kind of linguistic innovation is called a "dysphemism",
           | apparently. The Wikipedia entry for "dysphemism" was quite
           | enlightening.
           | 
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/style/rawdog-flights-
           | term...
        
             | saberience wrote:
             | Dysphemism isn't an innovation, it's been around a long
             | time. It simply means the opposite of a euphemism. Where a
             | euphemism is a nicer way of saying something, a dysphemism
             | is a worse or derogatory way of saying something. E.g.
             | Referring to your car as a "banger"
        
               | kranner wrote:
               | I meant the novel use of "raw dogging"
        
               | Izkata wrote:
               | "Banger" is a good thing, I think it comes from "head
               | banging" at concerts.
        
               | helboi4 wrote:
               | No its not. It means its banged up. Broken. In the case
               | of cars. In the case of a "banger of a tune", you are
               | probably right.
        
             | grugagag wrote:
             | To me it sounds like coded speech I need to put in some
             | effort to understand. It's a lot of effort to catch up with
             | these, though I admit that sometimes they're funny. But
             | only sometimes, most times it feels forced and senseless.
        
         | martinbaun wrote:
         | Raw dogging can mean quite different things. Apparently :D
        
       | yqtjnvou wrote:
       | This is good advice, actually. If you can't perform simple
       | things, how can you do complex ones?
       | 
       | But this also borders on asceticism - the practice of letting go
       | of worldly things, in pursuit of higher learning.
        
       | npras1 wrote:
       | Why do nothing?
       | 
       | Because it gives you a chance to think about what you _really_
       | must be doing instead of what you were doing that led to wanting
       | to calm the mind by doing nothing.
       | 
       | And what were you doing that made the mind "empty calorie"-style
       | busy?
       | 
       | Usually getting lost in youtube videos or social media
       | doomscrolling.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | Love it!
         | 
         | One minor improvement idea: get rid of the timer during the
         | nothing phase. I looked at it all the time.
         | 
         | You could show the timer once someone starts scrolling again.
        
           | malux85 wrote:
           | Yeah this was me too, I found myself fixated on the timer,
           | then I started computing factors of the numbers in my head,
           | then I realised I just failed at doing nothing :<
        
             | Crystalin wrote:
             | You didn't fail. You succeeded...Doing nothing mostly means
             | letting your mind go wherever it wants to. Counting the
             | time (seconds on a clock) is a good way to start doing
             | nothing
        
       | systems_glitch wrote:
       | "You don't need a million dollars to do nothin. Take a look at my
       | cousin, he's broke don't do shit."
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | I have had a page for just that for years now:
       | 
       | https://zombo.com/
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The only limit is yourself.
         | 
         | Someone needs to update it for mobile and dark mode though.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | Wait, did you make that? I remember going to that site around
         | 2003-2004!
        
       | morningsam wrote:
       | Before clicking, I thought this was going to be the next step in
       | the evolution of "frameworks" like http://vanilla-js.com/
        
       | ivolimmen wrote:
       | I was hoping that it would crash over the 900 seconds but it
       | still worked.
        
       | nrvn wrote:
       | Brilliant. Reminds me of
       | https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode but for general public.
       | 
       | Sometimes to get an idea of something you should simply stop
       | thinking.
        
       | andrewingram wrote:
       | Interestingly, http://www.donothingfor2minutes.com/ eventually
       | morphed into Calm
        
       | johnchristopher wrote:
       | Joke's on you, I got depression and that counter only goes up to
       | rookie numbers. /meme :)
        
       | rpastuszak wrote:
       | Along similar lines, I built Sit (https://sit.sonnet.io) a couple
       | of years ago, and so far we've generated months of blissful un-
       | productivity (my main metric).
       | 
       | (I use it as a meditation timer.)
       | 
       | For sitting and doing nothing as a group activity, I made Sit
       | Together:
       | https://untested.sonnet.io/Sit.%2C+(together)+devlog+002+-+S...
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | Unfortunately for you, resting leads to increased productivity.
         | Sucker!
        
           | rpastuszak wrote:
           | Goddammit!
        
       | podgorniy wrote:
       | I'm dissatisfied with "Nothing". I need "Noting+" for 5.99 eur
       | per month. Or give me at least couple advertisements to look at.
        
         | JLangley wrote:
         | ;^D
        
         | marci wrote:
         | Gamifying stillness.
         | 
         | - Share you highest score with friends.
         | 
         | - Set a reminder
         | 
         | - a "don't break the chain" calendar in the background
        
       | anilakar wrote:
       | If you gamify doing nothing, is doing nothing actually the same
       | as actively playing the game?
        
         | falcor84 wrote:
         | Exactly. It's the same as using one of those meditation apps
         | with gamification elements.
        
       | InDubioProRubio wrote:
       | ? Go for a walk. Walking is what our ancestors did, to go into
       | "finding" modus. Find a route to water, find prey, find
       | adversaries to find you and find out. Or at least find the way
       | home.
       | 
       | All senses get stimulated, a moving mind in a moving body. The
       | great outdoors, fresh air, i shite being Scottish.
       | 
       | If you have a problem you need to solve, but don't know how, just
       | walk up to a overview point and look down on the problem every
       | day.
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | I like to go for a run or a bike ride.
         | 
         | On a walk, you can still carry and even use a phone, listen to
         | a podcast or music, or have a conversation. When you're doing a
         | workout, you might wear a watch, but otherwise it's a time when
         | you can't really get distracted or interrupted by anything, you
         | just move, observe, and think.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | I can't really use a phone outside on a sunny day. Even at
           | max brightness the screen is unreadable.
        
           | my_brain_saying wrote:
           | This is excellent advice. Spending 5 hours on a weekend
           | cycling is extremely relaxing, not only because you are
           | intensely using your body, but because you are completely and
           | utterly distracted.
           | 
           | When I cycle, the first twenty kilometers are usually fairly
           | painful: I am tired, I feel my knees, back, and muscles hurt,
           | and am generally uncomfortable. After those twenty kilometers
           | I enter a meditative, gelatinous phase, were I no longer
           | really feel my body. I just ride. This is when I _think_; the
           | same style of thinking I experience when lying, comfortably,
           | in bed.
           | 
           | After maybe 60-90 kilometers (depending on my current fitness
           | level), I enter the pain stage. This is when I start feeling
           | my body again. Believe it or not, this is definitely the most
           | therapeutic stage. This is when I cannot think. My mind stays
           | blank, and I do -- in a manner of speaking -- nothing.
           | 
           | This lack of thought, meaning lack of stress, of worry, of
           | hectic, etc., is what motivates me to go on 150 or 200
           | kilometer bike rides. You feel physically refreshed and
           | exhausted. You feel that you were able to think in peace and
           | purely, as well as having been void of all negative,
           | stressful thoughts.
           | 
           | To anyone who has never tried an endurance sport like
           | cycling: I highly recommend it. I started when I was 14, and
           | it was one of the greatest decisions I ever made. It spared
           | me hours of depression, fear, and stress. It also encouraged
           | me to think and meditate in peace. I would not be the person
           | I am today, if it were not for my dear high-school friend who
           | showed me the world of cycling (as well as the world of
           | communism; I owe much to this friend). Thank you.
        
             | a_t48 wrote:
             | This sounds like the cycling version of runners high. I've
             | never felt it.
        
             | gffrd wrote:
             | I really identify with the phases and experience you
             | describe above. The act of being engaged as your body moves
             | through them is powerful.
             | 
             | Writer Haruki Murakami, a distance runner, was asked by an
             | interviewer what we thinks about when he runs. Murakami
             | responded that he basically doesn't think of anything. He
             | runs not to think, but to _not_ think. That He runs
             | specifically to create a void. (from his book "What I Talk
             | About When I Talk About Running")
             | 
             | I would also encourage anyone who hasn't experienced this
             | before: find an activity that demands this from you. You
             | will learn a lot about yourself.
        
           | t_mahmood wrote:
           | I love both cycling and walking. But cycling is what gave me
           | the best of all.
           | 
           | Riding for 7-8 hours even once a week just gave me a boost
           | that would let me cope with everything that I had to face in
           | daily life, and now after I've diagnosed with ADHD, I realize
           | it was also helped me a lot to keep myself somewhat sorted.
           | It's kinda therapy for me.
           | 
           | It's relaxing, and clams the racing mind so much.
           | 
           | Now I don't get a chance to ride anymore, but I miss it so
           | much. And I feel ADHD affects me more now
        
         | hnuser123456 wrote:
         | I think the intention is to not even try to identify solutions,
         | or even identify problems. If you're opening this page on your
         | computer or phone, presumably, you have nothing 100% critical
         | pressing right now. Now take it to the extreme, and see if you
         | can quiet your brain for a minute or so. Walking is not as
         | "pure nothing" as sitting and letting your brain wander
         | anywhere as long as it's not reminding you of obligation
         | stress. You might even start to daydream a pleasant setting.
        
         | frakt0x90 wrote:
         | I agree but I need to find an alternative. I live in texas
         | unfortunately and walking is miserable for 4 months out of the
         | year. I should just move but can't currently.
        
           | theultdev wrote:
           | The weather is perfect right now, take advantage!
           | 
           | Also it's perfect most of our "winter", unlike many places
           | where it snows / gets too cold.
           | 
           | No place other than California will have perfect weather all
           | year, but then you live in California...
           | 
           | During the summer my wife and I run inside, or very early in
           | the morning outside.
        
         | seadan83 wrote:
         | Interesting you mention walking as what our ancestors did.
         | Until about 100 years ago, food and energy scarcity was the
         | norm. Our ancestors would have been lean and would not have
         | typically expended energy for just pure leisure. In other
         | words, everyone was busy trying to not starve. There was plenty
         | of physical activity in the day, lots of chores and things to
         | do.
         | 
         | I say this to demonstrate how un-adapted we are now for what is
         | relatively recently a radically different lifestyle.
        
           | lainga wrote:
           | Petrarch climbed a mountain for fun in 1336.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_of_Mont_Ventoux
        
             | seadan83 wrote:
             | My summary statement saying "everyone" should be taken into
             | context rather than strawmanned. Fwiw, and also across most
             | of europe in a similar time period: "The Great Famine of
             | 1315-1317 (occasionally dated 1315-1322) was the first of a
             | series of large-scale crises that struck parts of Europe
             | early in the 14th century. Most of Europe (extending east
             | to Poland and south to the Alps) was affected." [1]
             | 
             | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315
        
           | noncoml wrote:
           | The peripatetic school of Aristotle. ~335BC
           | 
           | Take walks to stimulate the mind
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripatetic_school
        
           | groby_b wrote:
           | Thoreau, Humboldt, Goethe, Descartes. da Vinci, St. Francis
           | of Assisi, Hildegard of Bingen, Li Bai, Seneca, Socrates
           | 
           | Yes, it wasn't as affordable in earlier times, but thinking
           | and walking have been closely associated for millenia.
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | Most of those names strike me as particularly affluent or
             | benefitting from a rich sponsor. Which does not really
             | contradict the original point that majority of the
             | population were focused on survival.
        
               | throaway89 wrote:
               | They're still somebody's ancestors!
        
               | saghm wrote:
               | Yeah, Thoreau in particular didn't really "live off the
               | land" when writing Walden; his mother came to do his
               | laundry for him.
        
               | groby_b wrote:
               | "Yes, it wasn't as affordable in earlier times,"
               | 
               | Thinking in peace and quiet was indeed a luxury in past
               | times.
               | 
               | That doesn't mean there isn't a long tradition of walking
               | if you needed to think. And that was the core point of OP
               | - not that the majority was focused on survival, but that
               | supposedly thinking and walking are a new relationship,
               | previously impossible. And they really aren't. (Even as a
               | subsistence farmer, you occasionally have to think, and
               | doing that during a walk is a pretty common approach)
        
           | nativeit wrote:
           | "We're here on this Earth to fart around, don't let anybody
           | tell you different."
           | 
           | ~ Kurt Vonnegut
        
           | abdullahkhalids wrote:
           | This is not supported by anthropological facts in the
           | slightest.
           | 
           | First of all, the argument conflates hunter gatherers,
           | nomadic tribes, and farming societies. The mean and variance
           | in food supply in all three across the world and time varied
           | quite a bit. Were the numbers so bad uniformly that people
           | had no time for leisure activity!?!
           | 
           | Across history, there is evidence of people having huge
           | celebratory festivals, involving excess food, dancing, and
           | other rituals. People have been building for thousands of
           | years humongous temples and pyramids and other structures
           | requiring decades of continuous work, most of them without
           | slave labor but voluntarily. Spending significant part of the
           | day praying to the gods has also been the hallmark of humans.
           | Do any of these strike you as low energy activities?
           | 
           | Or take a look at biology. Most animals with some
           | intelligence spends a non-trivial amount of its time in play.
           | Why would humans not?
        
             | wrycoder wrote:
             | Do what humans usually did - hunt some dinner, hang around,
             | maybe go aggravate the neighboring tribe a bit, if you're
             | feeling feisty.
        
               | seadan83 wrote:
               | How do you hunt for dinner in a cold winter? I appreciate
               | your glibness, I was equally glib when I wrote "everyone"
        
             | seadan83 wrote:
             | Not in the very slightest? Didn't most early american
             | colonies die of starvation and disease?
             | 
             | I feel you completely discounted this: "Our ancestors would
             | have been lean and would not have typically expended energy
             | for just pure leisure." And instead responded to only the
             | following simplification as if it were an absolute point:
             | "In other words, everyone was busy trying to not starve"
             | 
             | Though, let us both stop nitpicking. It is hard to convey
             | the full nuance, particularly when tapping this out on a
             | phone.
             | 
             | In fairness, I did conflate a few concepts and did not
             | convey some nuance. Though my point that humans are not
             | adapted for our current lifestyle remains.
             | 
             | (1) serfs were not voluntarily lifting weights for leisure.
             | 
             | (2) humans were not historically jacked. They were lean.
             | They looked like thru-hikers, or marathon runners. It is
             | the reason why having fat was a beauty standard. Onky the
             | rich could have that many excess calories and not be M tan
             | from working. The body does not choose to put on
             | unnecessary levels of muscle without training and constant
             | nutrition
             | 
             | I did not mean to convey as was read into my statements
             | that humans did zero leisure. It is an absurd claim.
             | Though, running a marathon for the hell of it is likely
             | well out of the cards for most people, particularly in a
             | winter climate. To which my point, the need to go for
             | intentional walks was less than what it is today. Not zero,
             | but less.
             | 
             | As for the conflation, the lack of nutrition was
             | particularly salient in WWII when most Americans were not
             | getting enough calories.
             | 
             | "LeBlanc argues that the U.S. military's interest in
             | nutrition research exploded in the 1940s, after it began
             | seeking healthy recruits to deploy in World War II and
             | found a male population physically weakened by years of
             | malnutrition during the Great Depression." [1]
             | 
             | Celebrating during a harvest makes sense. A lot of that
             | food is liable to go bad. It is a time of plenty,in
             | contrast to long winters before canning was invented.
             | 
             | My point is the need for recreational leisure amongst
             | adults was less than compared to present day in "post
             | industrial countries" for two reasons: (1) substance living
             | intrinsically involves physical activity. (2) food
             | scarcity. Yeah, it is easy to strawman my argument as if
             | there was no excess expenditure of energy. I'll re-iterate
             | my point is that subsistance living is not conducive to a
             | lot of excess calorie expenditure. Second to that, the
             | number of people who were at a subsistence level was
             | historically far higher. Third, a lifestyle where time is
             | measured more in months and seasons, where one needs to do
             | "everything" manually - is fundamentally different then the
             | lifestyles of today (where with $100, today you can eat as
             | well as did the King of France)
             | 
             | [1] https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2019/01/historian-
             | traces-m...
        
         | olalonde wrote:
         | Showers also tend to be effective.
        
           | 331c8c71 wrote:
           | I find that cold showers are magic for clearing my mind.
        
         | 331c8c71 wrote:
         | Maybe walking will work for me when I am older but it is not
         | intense enough now. Cycling seems to be perfect as the scenery
         | changes much faster and there is more opportunity to challenge
         | myself (;
        
           | thoutsnark wrote:
           | Try walking while carrying a heavy load.
        
             | andai wrote:
             | That's just regular walking. Life is hard!
        
       | javier123454321 wrote:
       | I am a huge fan of meditation, I've been practicing it for over a
       | decade. I would like to extend an invitation to those that are
       | interested to pursue the concept of this applet further to find a
       | proper teacher rooted in a tested tradition.
       | 
       | There's this movement to reintroduce millenial traditions of
       | mindfulness into our lives under the guise of modern secularism.
       | I am not convinced that removing its original context is as wise
       | as it's purported. So many old traditions focus on lineage for a
       | reason, and it is something we're too quick to do away with in
       | society.
       | 
       | Most meditation practices come along with a warning, that doing
       | this type of work can lead to results that you need proper
       | preparation for. At the very least you need proper
       | intentionality, and doing them incorrectly can lead to
       | neuroticism and in some cases breakdowns and dissociation.
       | 
       | Good luck with all your nothings.
        
       | dietlbomb wrote:
       | This reminds me of "Don't Shoot the Puppy".
       | https://www.addictinggames.com/funny/dont-shoot-the-puppy
        
       | frabjoused wrote:
       | It's an excellent detail that the nothing timer resets if you
       | scroll down to read the copy.
        
         | chrsw wrote:
         | Bug or feature? I couldn't resist scolling to read the rest of
         | the message and my timer reset!
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | What happens after 999?
        
       | ramshanker wrote:
       | Loved this one.
       | 
       | Off Topic: Since it linked to GitHub. I clicked. Than my 1st
       | thought was, "This must be a web learning project for the
       | author." Otherwise this page could be made in 1 .html page
       | instead of 50+ files present in the repository!
        
       | lawrenceyan wrote:
       | This is a great intro to meditation.
       | 
       | Meet people where they are, and make it as easy as possible to
       | start doing something
        
       | danbruc wrote:
       | I am torn about the page having a scrollbar. It would be nice to
       | be able to read the entire page without having to scroll. But you
       | can not guarantee that anyway as the browser window might be
       | arbitrarily small. It punishes you for not doing nothing and
       | wanting to read the text which is the point. So maybe the page
       | should actually ensure that there is always a scroll bar, place
       | the statistics always below the fold.
        
         | tompark wrote:
         | Fwiw, you can cheat on mobile Safari by scrolling in reader
         | mode, which doesn't reset the timer.
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | The fact that you describe the act of missing a site's self-
         | described "pointless statistics" as "punishment" screams
         | volumes about our current state. The point is to do what it
         | says, which may involve not even looking at the screen
         | whatsoever
         | 
         | "There is no reward for lingering. Just the pleasure of simple
         | being."
         | 
         | If you're looking for something that rewards you for doing
         | nothing on the other hand, your favorite IRC server probably
         | has an #idleRPG channel to join
        
       | musha68k wrote:
       | Josef Pieper moment - good reminder to read "Leisure, the Basis
       | of Culture" again.
        
       | jp57 wrote:
       | The non-action of the wise man is not inaction.       It is not
       | studied. It is not shaken by anything.       The sage is quiet
       | because he is not moved,       Not because he wills to be quiet.
       | 
       | - Thomas Merton, _The Way of Chuang-Tzu_
        
       | iammjm wrote:
       | I dont think "doing nothing" is enough - the mind, at least mine,
       | will often wander into ugly places if left truly alone. What I
       | think is needed is a conscious & repeated effort of sustaining
       | attention away from past or future and back to here & now
        
       | ranprieur wrote:
       | Nice idea. We need a technology that doesn't just look at mouse
       | movement to help you do nothing, but reads your brainwaves.
        
         | silleknarf wrote:
         | This exists! You can use the mediation measurements on a
         | Neurosky Mindwave [1] to measure when you're thinking of
         | nothing.
         | 
         | I wrote an app with a friend about 10 years ago where we used
         | the headset and the python mindwave library [2]. The app
         | displays a longer and longer spiral on screen when you aren't
         | thinking about anything.
         | 
         | [1] The headset seems to still exist in some form:
         | https://store.neurosky.com/pages/mindwave [2]
         | https://github.com/faturita/python-mindwave
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Meditation and "thinking about nothing" are glamorized self-
       | centeredness. Try thinking about "nothing" and you'll come to
       | realize that you are just thinking about yourself, your feelings,
       | your anxiety (and attempts to alleviate it), your need to escape
       | from others, etc.
       | 
       | What brought you to meditation in the first place? Stress,
       | anxiety, resentment, insecurity. Instead of reconciliation,
       | meditation brings more isolation and brooding.
       | 
       | Meditation is narcissistic.
        
         | javier123454321 wrote:
         | I'll grant you this. Meditation in the modern secular context
         | which is devoid of its philosophical undercurrent, done in
         | absence of an experienced teacher that has achieved the goal
         | can lead to the pitfalls you describe.
         | 
         | Meditation is a tool, and it can be pointed to many aims.
         | Without the right aims, it can lead you to reinforce things you
         | don't want to like you describe. It can also lead you to
         | dissociate, or to exacerbate latent neurosis. However, it can
         | also be a life affirming method for being more present and less
         | hung up on the vicissitudes of the anxiety producing nature of
         | an impermanent world. It takes wisdom to use it for the latter.
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | I agree. I am referring to "pop" meditation, "mindfulness",
           | clinical meditation, what you get at workplaces -- i.e. the
           | "thinking about nothing" meditation promoted by this webpage.
           | 
           | I'm calling attention to value, virtue, beauty, etc. Someone
           | who is telling you that prayer is bad while meditation is
           | good, or that religion is bad while secular mindfulness is
           | good -- they are telling you to focus on yourself instead of
           | something or someone else.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I can do that when I'm dead.
        
       | why-el wrote:
       | also covered by the great philosopher Bertrand Russell:
       | https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | But what about the ten-thousand invisible habits? You could be
       | engaged in furious activity right now and not even know it.
        
       | marknutter wrote:
       | I lasted about 10 seconds before I gave into the irresistible
       | urge to read the comments about this on HN.
        
       | squidsoup wrote:
       | Frankly, I'd rather do Everything at zombo.com
        
       | chasing wrote:
       | Okay, but I want to be able to compare how much "nothing" I'm
       | doing with my friends and have "do nothing" influencer tools so I
       | can monetize "doing nothing." I need to be able to sell flairs,
       | let people pay for private one-on-one "do nothing" sessions, and
       | promote products integral to my "do nothing" success like
       | Mountain Dew and Taco Bell.
        
       | s4tr2 wrote:
       | This is amazing, it amazes me how some people are able to take
       | the simplest idea and put it out. Amazing, kudos
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | What is is about this site? The style or whatever it is, is
       | seemingly calming. Love it.
        
       | 10000truths wrote:
       | Pinch-to-zoom on a MacBook touchpad did not trigger a reset of
       | the idle timer.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-16 23:01 UTC)