[HN Gopher] Throwable tactical camera transmits 360deg panoramic...
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       Throwable tactical camera transmits 360deg panoramic thermal images
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2024-09-13 12:27 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newatlas.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newatlas.com)
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | I know we've made significant progress wit on-device compute but
       | I would be surprised to find out they are stiching in real time
       | in that amount of space... Even doing this in real time on a
       | commodity laptop would be pretty impressive to me.
        
         | Gys wrote:
         | Thermal cameras normally have a much lower resolution and only
         | a 4 or 8 bits color depth. More than enough for locating people
         | in a situation, I assume
        
           | markx2 wrote:
           | "The man from Box 500 [UK MI5] proudly announced that the
           | thermal-imaging camera at the rear had detected a pattern of
           | movement. Every morning, he reported, at exactly 08:00, the
           | hostages gathered in the commercial section on the ground
           | floor. An SAS officer tartly pointed out the central heating
           | was timed to go on every morning at that hour: the "hostages"
           | detected by MI5's machine were radiators warming up."
           | 
           | Excerpt From: The Siege by Ben Macintyre
           | 
           | Very good read.
        
         | brk wrote:
         | It's plausible to do this on device. We were discussing this
         | product concept 8 years ago at one of the video/AI companies I
         | was at. Between the relatively low res of thermal cameras and
         | the cues you can get from various sensors about orientation it
         | should be doable.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | When the camera settings do not change, the positions are
         | locked, etc, you can quickly do a "stitch" with a template that
         | doesn't really take a lot of compute at all. It's by no means a
         | clean stitch. Even in the demo video, you can see the edges
         | from each camera. However, this is a product embracing the
         | "know your audience" mantra, and it serves the purpose as
         | designed.
        
       | finnh wrote:
       | One step closer to the tunnel-mapping drones in Prometheus
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO-eduvo904
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | That may be among the cooler things that tech like this is
         | bringing us one step closer to.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Don't forget the stupid indoor drone security system that was
           | brought out a few years ago. I can't believe anyone would use
           | that
        
             | woleium wrote:
             | Lab126 (Amazon)
        
         | ycombinete wrote:
         | That's how I felt sending my little lidar robot vacuum out to
         | map our apartment.
        
       | ryanbuening wrote:
       | Reminded me of the Sticky Camera from Splinter Cell:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ-euCRgNO8
        
       | calmworm wrote:
       | This is cool but I was hoping to see one (or more) thrown, bounce
       | around, then see the software piece together a 3D sort of layout
       | of everything it captured. Excited to see v2!
        
       | gonzo41 wrote:
       | Whilst this seems cool. You won't be just throwing this. This
       | will be a controlled item and you'll need to recover it, so
       | eventually someone will lose one and then tears. Lots and lots of
       | tears.
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | I didn't work directly for it, but I remember my team working on
       | parts of the software and back-end stuff for Nokia Ozo[1], a
       | 360deg virtual reality camera. I feel that that camera was ahead
       | of its time.
       | 
       | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_OZO
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | That's funny that the wiki article didn't put a picture of the
         | camera itself and instead wasted an image on a generic logo.
         | The duckbill look of it was definitely odd. The real-time
         | preview was useful to directors that could not figure out,
         | "what does the camera see" <facepalm> It SEES EVERYTHING!!!!
         | Just stand there and look around. That's what VR cameras see.
         | Why is that so hard?
         | 
         | The Google camera that used 16 GoPros with more interesting to
         | me even though it only did a cylinder rather than a complete
         | sphere, but it did generate stereo images. We appended
         | additional GoPros to the top/bottom of the unit so we could
         | fill in the zenith/nadir of the final image. 22 total cameras.
         | 22 mircoSD cards. DIT was a nightmare.
         | 
         | We also played around with the prototype from FB that was
         | closer to Ozo, but that was right at the end of my time with
         | live action VR.
         | 
         | None of these cameras were "throwable" though. There was a
         | consumer unit though that would snap a 360deg image at the apex
         | of the toss.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | > "what does the camera see" <facepalm> It SEES
           | EVERYTHING!!!!
           | 
           | This is such a bad take, haha. Its as bad as telling the
           | cinematographer to look forward. Obviously there's the exact
           | point of view of the device but also the exposure, and other
           | camera intrinsics you don't want to guess at when you're
           | about to shoot a take.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Your take is also not a good one either as you are ignoring
             | my personal experience, and it seems you're assuming I'm
             | just making stuff up. The question isn't "is the exposure
             | good", "did the actor hit their mark", or anything else
             | that a direct might be concerned. It was "what does it
             | see".
             | 
             | Yes, it is hard to direct from around the corner and not
             | being able to see anything. The Ozo did a live stitch that
             | could be viewed in a headset. Guess what, directors didn't
             | like wearing a headset all day just like the general
             | public. Pushing the stitched feed to a monitor also caused
             | confusion as some just can't wrap their head around how the
             | rectilinear image translates. It came down to use attaching
             | a dedicated GoPro to the stand of the VR camera that looked
             | "straight" just so directors/video village could "see"
             | something. The directors were now much happier than all of
             | the other attempts.
        
         | w-m wrote:
         | I don't think many people would have thrown the OZO up to take
         | cute panoramas though, as it went for something like $60,000..
         | At the time (~2017), the OZO was the benchmark quality-wise,
         | and it hit the community pretty hard, when Nokia cancelled the
         | project over night and disbanded/fired the team behind it.
         | 
         | At the time I was working for a startup called VideoStitch,
         | later Orah, which had launched the Orah 4i, a much smaller,
         | 4-lens, 360 degree 4K live streaming camera. Expectations were
         | huge, that 360 degree video streaming would go through the
         | roof, with a camera at every wedding. Didn't really work out
         | that way, I wonder whether stereo 180 degree "Spatial Videos"
         | in the Apple ecosystem will go the same way.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | What made it ahead of its time? Seems like Google Daydream and
         | that wave of 3DOF headsets came out in a year later and had
         | their 15 minutes of stereo 360.
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | Throwable 360 cameras owe their heritage to Jonas Pfeil, who
       | built one for his thesis at TU Berlin [0], and later
       | commercialized the idea in a camera called Panono [1]. They never
       | really went mainstream, but it was a really cool idea with lots
       | of buzz back then (10+ years ago).
       | 
       | [0] https://www.jonaspfeil.de/ballcamera/ [1]
       | https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/12/5092670/panono-camera-ba...
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | Now install a motorized core so it can roll itself and be
       | controlled by the operator.
        
       | cryptonector wrote:
       | Rainbow Six Siege used to have an "operator" that could throw
       | sticky cameras that looked a lot like the ones in TFA, though
       | smaller. Sometimes real life imitates video games.
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | It's a logical development.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Rainbow Six Siege (2016 update, Valkyrie):
         | 
         | https://rainbowsix.fandom.com/wiki/Valkyrie#Device_Descripti...
         | 
         | Splinter Cell (2002):
         | 
         | https://splintercell.fandom.com/wiki/Sticky_Camera
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | I was hoping to see a link to the purchase page.
       | 
       | Surveillance/recon equipment and drones seem to be the next "2A"
       | things to buy. And anti-drone tooling. Directed RF jammers?
       | Drone-deployable castnets? Shotguns with turkey choke? Heh.
        
         | rdl wrote:
         | Their visible cameras are $7k, I'd be surprised if this is less
         | than $15k.
         | 
         | Assuming the Berlin patents have expired, a visible light or
         | "night vision" near IR camera made from commodity sensors and
         | on-device stitching is about $100-200 BOM which could be a $500
         | premium cat toy (and thus actually affordable as a tactical
         | tool for users other than funded US/EU police). I've been
         | finding gear for community safety guys in South Africa and it
         | is amazing how much can get done with cheap consumer gear now.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Benelli has a new m4 anti drone model for you.
         | 
         | I personally think the m4 is way overrated. Compared to its two
         | cousins the 1301 and 300 patrol it's just larger and heavier
         | and more powerful expensive.
         | 
         | But... I do think it's funny that basically in a year shotguns
         | have been made relevant again.
         | 
         | I've considered buying a couple of the $5 Alibaba drones to
         | "test".
         | 
         | If I could hook the cheapo alivaba drones up to my better DJI
         | equipment, I think that might make for a fun 3gun course this
         | year.
        
       | jameshart wrote:
       | Terminology-wise, what's the better way to communicate that
       | something captures a truly omnidirectional spherical view, not
       | just 360deg in a circle? Seems this article has gone for '360deg
       | panoramic' but to me that implies blind spots above and below,
       | but the camera placements on this device seem to have full
       | spherical coverage. Shouldn't they call it a 41,253 square degree
       | camera?
        
         | NightlyDev wrote:
         | You just said it: Omnidirectional, meaning in every direction
         | :)
        
         | z2h-a6n wrote:
         | If you want to be specific, specify the solid angle [0]
         | captured, in your prefered units, e.g 4p steradians = 41253
         | square degrees = 1 spat.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle
        
       | schobi wrote:
       | I would love to see some footage off that in a throw - I would
       | expect a blurry mess.
       | 
       | With panono, they captured a single shot at the highest point in
       | a throw. In daylight, short exposure time. Only when throwing
       | straight up without strong rotation.
       | 
       | With (uncooled) microbolometers you can't have a short exposure
       | times and might end up with 20-30msec effective exposure. This
       | thing might be harder to throw up straight without rotation.
       | Throwing through a windows or rolling? Please show me that this
       | does not give a blurry mess, but gives useful images! Demo
       | footage suspiciously missing...
       | 
       | Edit: I stand corrected - the spot video does not contain thermal
       | but shows NIR images. One can see some point projections from a
       | depth sensor?
        
         | luma wrote:
         | Perhaps the use case is to toss it into a potentially dangerous
         | position, let it settle, and then take the shot? I don't see
         | any claims that this is intended to operate while in motion.
        
         | mrlatinos wrote:
         | These aren't meant to provide imagery in motion. The point is
         | to provide a view from the point where the ball lands...
        
           | HenryBemis wrote:
           | Midway-point between the authorities, or overshoot and see
           | what's behind them. Depending on the scenery/layout placing
           | 2-3 of these can make a big difference.
           | 
           | Also why not drop them from a small (less-noisy) drone? Drone
           | with a camera can help surveil the situation from above, it
           | can drop one of these balls, so you increase visibility by a
           | lot.
        
         | ls612 wrote:
         | These are intended to be used like grenades but for
         | intelligence. If it fails or lands wrong it's not a big deal
         | the idea is they will pump these things out by the millions.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | I doubt it's by the millions--unlike a grenade I think these
           | will be recovered for reuse.
        
       | lostlogin wrote:
       | I don't see any mention of battery life.
       | 
       | Edit: Their website is better than the article.
       | https://bounceimaging.com/
       | 
       | The 4G one seems to last 4-8 hours.
       | 
       | https://bounceimaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Law_Enf...
        
       | TaylorAlexander wrote:
       | I like that the article refers to the company as "Bonce Imaging"
       | (image caption), "Bounce Imaging", and "Bouncing Image".
       | 
       | Bonce Imaging is definitely my favorite.
        
       | svag wrote:
       | The footage of the camera looks like an IR cut filter of a
       | daylight camera rather than a thermal camera...
        
       | CaptainFever wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Threat Grenade from COD Advanced Warfare:
       | https://callofduty.fandom.com/wiki/Threat_Grenade
        
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