[HN Gopher] Making a rickroll laser: A parametric speaker
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       Making a rickroll laser: A parametric speaker
        
       Author : pabs3
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2024-09-14 14:59 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (10maurycy10.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (10maurycy10.github.io)
        
       | slicktux wrote:
       | Pretty cool! I've seen similar implementation in the Elektor 2011
       | issue magazine. The US navy uses the commercial brand of these
       | speakers; LRAD (long range acoustic device) to ward off pirates
       | at seas. LRAD is the company that makes them for defense purposes
       | and they patented the name and acronym. But parametric speakers
       | are used everywhere even museums and apparently for trolling Rick
       | roll too! :)
        
         | Trevor908 wrote:
         | Fwiw lrad is regular speakers. Not ultrasound. Just tweeters.
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | Those things are so goddamn loud, I've seen them tested before
         | a bunch. I used to see them for sale on ebay and amazon which
         | was pretty funny. Not anymore. Still on aliexpress, as well as
         | these sound laser directional speakers albeit the LRAD will run
         | you at least 5 grand and you can probably make the directional
         | speaker cheaper as in this DIY project
        
       | nalllar wrote:
       | Is this dangerous in terms of hearing damage due to the perceived
       | low sound level alongside inaudible louder ultrasound?
        
         | RadiozRadioz wrote:
         | This reminds me of when I played around with laser diodes as a
         | kid (of course to burn random things).
         | 
         | I ordered a powerful green laser diode from eBay, wired it up
         | and pointed it at some black paper, hit record on the camera,
         | excitedly connected the battery and... nothing. I checked the
         | wiring, all was good. I looked in the end of the diode, I could
         | see a faint red glow inside, but nothing else. I must've got a
         | dud unit.
         | 
         | Later I looked at the recording and my heart sank. When past me
         | connected the battery, the room immediately lit up with a
         | bright white glow. The diode emmitted an intense beam of
         | infrared light... and I pointed that thing directly at my eye.
         | 
         | There wasn't a wider point to that, this just reminded me and I
         | wanted to share. I suppose be careful of what you can't see.
         | 
         | I got lucky. That sort of thing can cause big problems.
         | Especially those that stay unnoticed until old age. Hearing is
         | also one of those.
        
         | nihzm wrote:
         | I have a friend who built one of these as their thesis. IIRC
         | they were telling me that the air through which the sound beam
         | propagates acts as a low pass filter, so if you're at the
         | correct distance from the device the high frequency energy
         | should have dissipated.
         | 
         | Interesting stuff, I wish I had more time to learn about what
         | they where doing.
        
           | binary132 wrote:
           | I was thinking about how the air itself must be contributing
           | to the construction of the (standing?) sound wave as a
           | resonator.
        
             | nihzm wrote:
             | Not sure if there are standing waves involved, or
             | resonance. I presume it is very similar to a phased array
             | [1] for beamforming in antennas, except that then
             | anisotropic properties of medium may not be negligible to
             | construct the wavefront (temperature gradients & wind),
             | which is probably also why these devices do not sound
             | great. To produce a high quality waveform at the receiving
             | end the physics probably becomes quite involved rather
             | quickly.
             | 
             | [1]: https://www.analog.com/en/resources/analog-
             | dialogue/articles...
        
         | nothacking_ wrote:
         | I'm not an expert on this, but there don't seem to be any
         | reported cases of hearing loss from sounds above 30 kHz, but
         | there are documented cases of unpleasant effects. In any case,
         | I'd keep some distance, just to be safe.
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | No, we don't hear ultrasonic frequencies because our ears do
         | not resonate at those frequencies.
         | 
         | We hear sounds when the cilia in the cochlea resonate with the
         | incoming sound. We don't have cilia of the length required to
         | resonate with ultrasonic sounds, so there's no danger of
         | hearing loss.
         | 
         | Animals may get their hearing damaged, if they are in the path
         | of the sound, are close enough that it's still ultrasonic at
         | their location, and are sensitive to the frequency used, I
         | believe. Maybe someone who knows for sure can say for sure.
        
       | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
       | Awesome - very cool project!
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | The Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville has these. Bad sound
       | but the directionality works well. Want one of these in the
       | bathroom so I can take a long shower and listen to podcasts
       | without waking up my lovely wife.
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | Surely waterproof headphones would be far easier and sound far
         | better
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | You correct. But I'm clumsy and interrupt-driven. I would
           | somehow forget about them, drop them on the floor, then trip
           | on them and break a hip.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | They make a "speaker" for loud environments like trade shows or
         | museums that are parabolic dishes. There's a speaker at the
         | node and the dish reflects all of the sound back down into a
         | collimated "beam". The ones I've specifically used were meant
         | to be hung overhead so you only hear it when you step
         | underneath. They were clear acrylic bowls that were 24"-30"
         | diameter. It was mainly meant for delivering dialog/narration
         | to a video playing without annoying the people working the
         | booth. It was effective for the purpose
        
       | Reventlov wrote:
       | so, basically, beamforming but for sound ?
        
       | graycat wrote:
       | Lasers? Ah, one of the early lasers was He-Ne gas in a narrow
       | tube, a radio transmitter antenna wrapped around the tube (or
       | some such), and mirrors at both ends of the tube. So, photons
       | would go back and forth between the mirrors, a tiny fraction
       | would leak out of a mirror as the laser light, and the rest would
       | stay in tube and help generate more photons from the radio and
       | He-Ne interactions ( _laser_ , light amplification via stimulated
       | emission of radiation).
       | 
       | So, right, just thinking from the OP, between mirrors there was
       | some highly _favorable_ line of amplification, and that line
       | meant that the beam out of the laser would be an extension of
       | that line and form a  "narrow" beam!!!
       | 
       | Right, if use some voltage on some piezoelectric crystal to make
       | tiny adjustments in the distance between the mirrors, then will
       | make small changes in the frequency of the light, i.e., there is
       | a highly _favorable_ wavelength that fits a whole number of times
       | between the mirrors or some such.
       | 
       | The changes in frequency of the light still have to correspond to
       | the _thermally_ moving gas atoms generating the light. Right, if
       | have the favorable frequency in the middle of the feasable range,
       | will get slightly less power in the beam, a _dip_ , called the
       | _Lamb dip_. Could that dip be used as a _length standard_? First
       | job, worked on that, _physicist_ , NIST, then the NBS, US
       | National Bureau of Standards.
       | 
       | That is, at the end of the laser we have a tiny light source that
       | puts out a very narrow beam. How? As above and not from antenna
       | theory.
        
       | noodlesUK wrote:
       | So how does this work? Is it the same as the kind of phase
       | cancellation that you often see with two speakers playing the
       | same tone, but just with lots of elements (and an ultrasonic
       | source)?
        
         | nihzm wrote:
         | As far as I understand yes, I would also guess that it is
         | analogous to a phased array antenna, but with sound waves
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | It's a sound laser, or maybe I'm remembering the video in this
         | link wrong on the terminology and the SASER is different? Maybe
         | it's just "sound from ultrasound"
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_amplification_by_stimula...
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdVfUnS-pM
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_from_ultrasound
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | This is not a sound laser; the beam has some similar
           | properties to a laser (e.g. collimation), but it works more
           | like a directional antenna.
        
       | jamal-kumar wrote:
       | What's really interesting about these piezoelectric ultrasound
       | emitters (Not far off from what you see in novelty fog fountains
       | with the little waterfall and maybe some elves and mushrooms), in
       | different arrangements, are actually capable of something called
       | acoustic levitation of small objects - and what's more this is
       | actually something you can DIY as well
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDWrWpaBho
       | 
       | https://www.instructables.com/Acoustic-Levitator/
       | 
       | https://pubs.aip.org/aip/rsi/article/88/8/085105/962938/Tiny...
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=acoustic+levita...
       | 
       | There's some interesting applications combining it with
       | projection here (Acoustic holography):
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9GybXczNAc
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | The novelty fog fountains are typically a piezo micro mesh with
         | tiny holes, which is similar but distinct from ultrasonic
         | atomization
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | "The beam also bounces off objects, making it seam like the sound
       | is coming from somewhere else. Strangely, the sound is actually
       | louder when bouncing off a hard object like a wall then when
       | listening to it directly. I'm guessing that the surface creates
       | areas of higher ultrasound intensity, creating more sound then
       | would be created otherwise."
       | 
       | Would this just be due to the fact that the reflecting surface
       | isn't perfectly smooth so the reflections do not reflect back
       | 180deg and pretty much scatter up reflection?
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | That sounds like the thing where you turn your bass speaker
         | towards the wall (ideally a corner) and the bass gets
         | louder/better. A friend showed me this in high school; never
         | figured out how this could possibly work.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | some bass bins are in a folded configuration so that the
           | speakers are not firing directly out of the front of the
           | cabinet but from an angled position that hits the back before
           | exiting the front of the cabinet.
        
           | hunter2_ wrote:
           | With low frequencies, directionality is negligible, so it's
           | not about turning it "toward" the wall, but about placing it
           | against the wall. I suppose it's possible that the sound
           | radiates more from one side than the other (possibly the side
           | with the cone, or maybe the side with the port if one
           | exists!) so turning it can result in effectively moving it
           | closer. So why does closer matter?
           | 
           | If you suspend a subwoofer up in the air so it has no
           | boundaries, its sound radiates in all directions (full
           | sphere). If you put it on the floor (let's assume all such
           | boundaries are infinitely dense and thick, for simplicity)
           | its sound now radiates only upwards/outwards (half sphere).
           | Now push it up against a wall: quarter sphere. And finally,
           | put it in the corner of the room: eighth sphere. Of course
           | for a few millimeters it goes toward the boundary but then is
           | reflected back, and so long as the distance isn't so
           | significant relative to the wavelength that destructive
           | interference (cancellation) occurs within the audible range,
           | all interference is constructive (additive). The SPL in the
           | listening area increases by 3 dB for each of these
           | boundaries/halvings, although in practice it's slightly less
           | since typical boundary material is a little bit acoustically
           | absorptive and acoustically transparent.
           | 
           | The next time you are deciding where to position your
           | bluetooth speaker, if it's lacking in bass, boundary-load it.
        
       | jonway wrote:
       | I would like to make the unsubstantiated assertion that
       | unscrupulous police and occasionally private entities use this
       | existing technology (available for organizations such as
       | libraries, venues, corporate) off-label on occasion as an
       | "investigative tool", which is to say maliciously.
        
       | andoando wrote:
       | Should put these random places in the streets and have them play
       | at random times
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | The security state decrees that this is not a good idea
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | I want a compact version I can point out a car window at the
         | glass of another car and turn it into a voice speaker.
        
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