[HN Gopher] Billiards is a good game (1975)
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       Billiards is a good game (1975)
        
       Author : chucksmash
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2024-09-14 04:17 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mag.uchicago.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mag.uchicago.edu)
        
       | orionblastar wrote:
       | My father, who died in 2010, would play Yahoo Games Pool and was
       | good at it. It is all angles and physics and good for the brain.
        
         | landedfolk wrote:
         | Yahoo pool was ace. Fond memories of 2006 I think...bunch of
         | devs taking 5 minutes off to play.
        
         | tsimionescu wrote:
         | This is a complete tangent, but I would note that we don't have
         | physical models nearly good enough to actually compute the way
         | billiards balls (or even worse, snooker balls) interact with
         | each other and the fabric on the table. It's all guesswork and
         | experience, mostly. The interactions between the balls and the
         | fabric are critical for the vast majority of the movements, and
         | they are far too complex for any physical first-principles
         | based model to capture.
        
           | nemo44x wrote:
           | Is this because of imperfections in the fabric? Golf has a
           | similar situation where if you use a machine to roll a ball
           | on a perfect line and speed, sometimes it won't go in. This
           | is because of imperfections in the gradient and that grass
           | changes constantly as it slowly grows and bends towards
           | light, etc.
           | 
           | Wow now that's a tangent to a tangent!
        
             | fredzel wrote:
             | There was still ongoing dispute between pool and snooker
             | players whether playing side spin on white ball affects
             | angle of the object ball hit by the white (ignoring
             | deflection, just the spin transfer).
             | 
             | In real life it depends on the tables bed, banks, cloth
             | (different material, speed, whether it's clean or dirty,
             | it's 'mileage', air temperature and humidity...), balls,
             | cue and of course human factor.
        
               | cowboylowrez wrote:
               | seems like you could test this. simply line up a very
               | easy (and repeatable) combination shot with the two
               | object balls really close to each other and vary the
               | contact and spin as needed. the closer the cue ball to
               | the first object ball will mean that you could minimise
               | the impact of deflection. have to try it next time I'm
               | near a pool table!
               | 
               | I've always assumed that deflection, swerve and throw
               | were a given but sounds like they're debating the "throw"
               | part?
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | Not imperfections, the fabric itself. If the balls were on
             | a frictionless surface, their movement would be completely
             | different, they would barely spin. Much of their movement
             | is caused by their interaction with the fabric. But that is
             | very hard to model from Newton's laws of motion.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Why are snooker balls harder to model?
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | Not the balls themselves, but I believe the fabric is
             | thicker, and thus has a bigger effect on the balls' motion,
             | on snooker tables compared to pool. There are also other
             | difficulties, such as the cue having a smaller tip that
             | brings more variability in the spin imparted to a ball, but
             | those I think are less relevant to the ability to model the
             | game from first principles (Newton's laws of motion).
        
           | imglorp wrote:
           | If anyone is seeking serious answers about the variables, the
           | first bible is "Byrne's New Standard Book Of Pool And
           | Billiards."
           | 
           | And it's not just the cloth and balls (rolling and static
           | friction, dirt, ball elasticity...), it's also the rails,
           | which rarely exhibit "angle of reflection == angle of
           | incidence" due to more complexities.
        
         | emmelaich wrote:
         | Huh it's still around. https://www.yahoo.com/games/play/pool-
         | lucky-break-9-ball/
         | 
         | Looks like fun.
        
       | jb1991 wrote:
       | > The waitress told us he drew sketches of the faculty he did not
       | care to eat with. She said they all had long noses.
       | 
       | I'm trying to understand this comment. I can't tell if this is
       | somehow a vague hint of an anti-Semitic attitude? It's a weird
       | thing to say or write in modern times if not.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | > I can't tell if this is somehow a vague hint of an anti-
         | Semitic attitude?
         | 
         | Doesn't seem likely.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_A._Michelson#Life:
         | _"Michelson was born in Strelno, Posen, Kingdom of Prussia
         | (modern-day Strzelno, Poland), to Jewish parents [...] His
         | family was non-religious, and Michelson himself was a lifelong
         | agnostic"_
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Considering he was Jewish it seems unlikely?
        
           | jb1991 wrote:
           | You have to admit, it's a strange comment though.
        
             | pixxel wrote:
             | If you're looking for it.
        
             | tiznow wrote:
             | Could be a physiognomy angle.
        
             | bulbosaur123 wrote:
             | It's fine. Stop seeing race, ethnicity everywhere. Just be
             | more chill and not get triggered by everything, we don't
             | have to police language. People should be able to say
             | whatever they want
        
               | eyelidlessness wrote:
               | On the other hand, OP asked a question and you seem to be
               | the one policing language in response.
        
             | tom_ wrote:
             | Add me to the list of people wondering about it too. An odd
             | throwaway line, something of a non sequitur, some
             | information we didn't really need to know - and yet, it was
             | included. (And the noses referred to again later.) But
             | without further elaboration. Clearly we are supposed to
             | take something from this - but what?
             | 
             | And I also considered the anti-semitism angle. It's not
             | like the hook-nosed hand-wringing cartoon Jew isn't an
             | extremely well-known anti-semitic stereotype, and it's not
             | like the idea that somebody might be anti-semitic is hugely
             | surprising. I don't think this thought is exactly some
             | ridiculous flight of fancy!
             | 
             | Turns out Michelson was a Jew though. Well, maybe that
             | _was_ just his art style then! But now I 'm even more
             | confused about the inclusion of this information.
             | 
             | It is a strange comment.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | In many cultures this signifies being a fool, e.g. think
         | Pinocchio. Similar connotations exist for a wide variety of
         | exaggerated proportions you might see in caricatures. So in
         | this context it seems he didn't think highly of the faculty
         | members at an intellectual level.
        
           | calmbonsai wrote:
           | I forget the name of the specific art style, but "exagerated
           | noses" is a known caricature motif. You can see this vividly
           | depicted in the opening sequence of the BBC's "Yes Minister"
           | TV series from the '80s.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDEMthILzpA
        
             | emmelaich wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Scarfe
             | 
             | also did drawings for Pink Floyd's The Wall.
        
         | xandrius wrote:
         | Jumping to that conclusion does require a very honed skill of
         | looking for outrage.
         | 
         | I'd be curious to know what they mean but until then I'd just
         | take it as a pun and move on.
        
           | GJim wrote:
           | > Jumping to that conclusion does require a very honed skill
           | of looking for outrage.
           | 
           | Welcome to the modern internet.
        
           | namdnay wrote:
           | It's a good thing they didn't jump to any conclusion, and
           | asked a question
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | It's a reporting of a report of an observation of portrait
         | drawings.
         | 
         | Theres no way to know what it means from the text; you'd have
         | to ask the artist.
        
         | rpmisms wrote:
         | "I saw a monkey in this guy's house, which made me think of
         | black people. Therefore, he was racist".
         | 
         | Assigning your own biases to other people is a great way to
         | lose friends and influence nobody.
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | I wondered too. It may simply indicate that the portraits were
         | (intentionally) unflattering.
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | I like that this was published to promote "A River Runs Through
       | It," but they either hadn't quite decided on the name or
       | misprinted it as "The River Runs Through It."
       | 
       | It's also interesting that lunch was organized in a way where
       | graduate students watched the professors eat, and professors had
       | recess after lunch.
        
         | mauvehaus wrote:
         | I hadn't read the byline until I read your comment. Young Men
         | and Fire is also a highly worthwhile read about the Mann Gulch
         | fire. I'm delighted to have this article to read in a Saturday
         | morning, because Norman Maclean's prose delights me.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Amazon's page (and URL) covers all angles. All hail SEO!
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/River-Runs-Through-Norman-Maclean/dp/...
        
       | osrec wrote:
       | A more difficult variant is snooker, played on a 12ft x 6ft table
       | with tighter pockets and smaller balls.
       | 
       | It can be frustrating to play well, but when you "get it", it
       | really is a beautiful game to play, and a real mental workout.
       | 
       | For anyone interested, Ronnie O'Sullivan is the best ever player,
       | and his YouTube highlights are worth a watch:
       | https://youtu.be/PE8XPHnCNpg - makes the game look incredibly
       | easy, but I assure you, it's not!
        
         | jimkleiber wrote:
         | Wow this felt magical to watch, thank you for sharing it.
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | Ronnie might be the best but I've always enjoyed Mark Williams
         | style of play more. The whole of the "Class of 92" are beyond
         | special though.
        
           | osrec wrote:
           | Class of 92 are indeed very special. Williams is still doing
           | amazingly well - just got to the final of the Saudi masters,
           | and nearly clinched the deciding frame. Not bad for someone
           | nearly 50 years old!
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Billiards doesn't have pockets. Pool ("pocket billiards") has
         | pockets.
         | 
         | You can see a billiard table in the background of the photo,
         | behind the pool table.
        
           | osrec wrote:
           | English billiards does in fact have pockets, carom billiards
           | does not.
        
       | fredzel wrote:
       | It's also one of the hardest games (sports) mentally, you can sit
       | for a few minutes or few breakes and all you can do is wait for
       | opponent to make a mistake - or play a safe. All you can do is
       | try to stay focused and positive, not sulking over mistake you
       | just made that might've lost you the whole match, to not mess up
       | a chance when it comes.
        
         | jgalt212 wrote:
         | Sort of like batting against peak Pedro. Just wait for him to
         | err, if not you're toast.
        
         | Towaway69 wrote:
         | Basically I've been playing billards all my life. Never really
         | got better, playing at the same level for years. Meaning that
         | getting more than two or three balls at one go was a rarity.
         | 
         | Until one day when I stopped looking at the white when playing
         | a shot and instead I started looking at the target ball. It's
         | weird that it took me so long to make that little change but it
         | completely changed my skill level.
         | 
         | Something else I realised was that the less time I think about
         | a shot the better the shot comes. As you said, it's a very
         | mental game.
         | 
         | And I realised that it's all about placement: where do I want
         | the white to be _after_ playing a ball into the pocket.
        
           | aetherson wrote:
           | Do you mean pool?
        
       | sfilmeyer wrote:
       | >In 1928, three years before his death, everyone said of
       | Michelson, "He measured light," and today he is one of the few
       | Nobel Prize winners whom nearly all educated people can name and
       | give the reason for the award, although Michelson's award
       | actually was based on a wide spectrum of experiments.
       | 
       | I found this line (particularly "nearly all educated people can
       | name and give the reason for the award") pretty amusing. Prior to
       | this article, I'd heard of Michaelson, knew he was part of the
       | Michelson and Morley experiment, and remembered a couple of
       | details of the experiment design. But I also have a bachelors
       | degree in physics, and I still couldn't have confidently told you
       | whether he won a Nobel prize. I'm sure the intervening 50 years
       | have dulled his fame a bit, but I've got to wonder how true it
       | was when written.
        
       | fracus wrote:
       | I had no idea Billiards had no pockets and no objective to sink
       | balls into pockets. I had no idea a game like that existed,
       | although, I certainly heard of Billiards but always thought it
       | was, I now know is the game known as Snooker.
        
         | Ylpertnodi wrote:
         | Billiards can be played on a snooker table (depending on
         | company a potted ball is a penalty, PS5 in the 'pot')
         | 
         | A great skill improver is often financially aligned.
        
       | quantified wrote:
       | Their laboratory high school taught billiards as a phys ed class
       | on the university's tables, too.
        
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