[HN Gopher] The Legend of Holy Sword: An Immersive Experience fo...
___________________________________________________________________
The Legend of Holy Sword: An Immersive Experience for Concentration
Enhancement
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 128 points
Date : 2024-09-13 23:07 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
| bigcat12345678 wrote:
| bene gesserit vibe hit hard
|
| Now there is a path forward to be able to focus on a single cell
| in my body. LoL
| kherud wrote:
| That was my association as well! Dune even uses similar
| vocabulary. For example someone mentioned "pranayama" in this
| thread, which sounds a lot like Dune's "Prana-bindu". Really
| makes me wonder about Frank Herbert's experiences about all of
| this.
| leblancfg wrote:
| OK that's neat but boils down to "here's a cool game". I was
| expecting a double blind study that measures some concentration
| metric vs a placebo intervention.
| moron4hire wrote:
| I'm sure they intend to do something like that, but
| unfortunately time/funding is probably getting in the way.
| Making an app like that is not exactly cheap. You need either
| the right combination of skills or a lot of trial an error,
| which is either high rate times short time, or low rate times
| long time. So they probably released this intermediate work to
| try to gin up some interest to get more funding.
|
| Good luck to them. Never really worked out that way for me in
| my efforts.
| cloudking wrote:
| https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20231117-23105/ summary with
| video
| swayvil wrote:
| I've gone a bit down the road of concentration enhancement
| (meditation). There are trippy depths and real magic. And it
| really isn't that hard. It just takes time and dedication.
| gibbetsandcrows wrote:
| What was your experience like, and what sort of meditation you
| were doing?
| swayvil wrote:
| Plain old concentration meditation with the feeling of breath
| in the tip of my nose as my object. (this guy calls it
| "shrinking" : https://fleen.org/fluffy_cloud/shrink/ )
|
| As for the experience. Well, first it gets you high. Then it
| gets really easy. Then you encounter weird stuff and more
| weird stuff, vast and deep. And that's as far as I'll go with
| that line of conversation.
| nightowl_games wrote:
| My grip on reality is so tight that I can't fathom anything
| you'd be unwilling to speak about.
| swayvil wrote:
| I've had several conversations about that stuff and they
| always go downhill fast.
|
| (Case in point, the other guy in this thread is already
| insinuating that I'm diddling demons or somesuch. That's
| what makyo means)
| ulnarkressty wrote:
| From reading the wiki page I take it to mean
| hallucinations which one gives greater importance to than
| they should. Which is sort of similar to what you were
| describing, I don't think they meant offense.
| vinceguidry wrote:
| Then you're perfect for a technique called 'noting',
| which accelerates results.
| gibbetsandcrows wrote:
| Thanks, it sounds a little like zazen, but with makyo being
| the goal.
| swayvil wrote:
| Makyo? Seriously?
| gibbetsandcrows wrote:
| It sounds like the only difference between makyo and what
| you've experienced is whether you think it's 'real' or
| not...but I don't have a whole lot of detail to go on
| here, either. I'm not judging the 'realness', I'm just
| saying that two similar methods are producing similar
| results. At least subjectively.
| theptip wrote:
| Sounds more like Jhana to me.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| > And that's as far as I'll go with that line of
| conversation.
|
| Can you point us to somewhere that will fill in the blanks?
|
| I honestly can't tell if your general take on this approach
| is positive or negative. If it's negative, I'd rather have
| a heads-up of some kind.
| swayvil wrote:
| It's positive. I like it.
| crdrost wrote:
| Some people do have acid flashbacks etc. ... others have
| described the situation as an "attention pull-up bar,"
| you try to hold yourself "up" (ie focused), eventually
| "your arms give" (ie your attention wanders), you "rest"
| a second (ie acknowledge it), then "pull yourself up"
| again (ie return to the object of meditation).
|
| I was a lay Tibetan Buddhist for several years, sometimes
| you do focus on one point, or a statue of a Buddha, or on
| your breathing... the sort of static/repetitive things
| where you might trigger the psychedelic effects. You can
| fast-chant Avalokiteshwara's mantra[1] and Green Tara's
| mantra[2] and Vajrasattva's short mantra[3], but you
| would also have more dynamic meditations and longer
| mantras: Vajrasattva's full mantra[4] is a whole song; so
| are the Praises of Tara; a full visualization of Green
| Tara has multiple colors and seed syllables and signs and
| stages until you visualize her blossoming out of a Lotus
| and shining green light through you, blasting all your
| your darknesses away.
|
| That last one is not so typical, but like _tonglen_
| practice, where you breathe in the darkness of the world
| and breathe out pureness and goodness, is more active and
| very common.
|
| [1] the familiar _Om mani padme hum_ , which fast-chanted
| sounds like "hummo-mani-pemde" over and over
|
| [2] there are different skin colors of Tara, Green Tara
| is invoked with _Om Tare tuttare ture svaha_ and fast
| chanted it sounds like "zohm-tare-t 'tare-ture" repeated.
|
| [3] his short mantra is just his name, _Om Vajrasattva
| hum_. There 's also a Japanese tradition of some monk
| dancing down the street sing-chanting an Amitabha mantra
| like that, _Namu Amita butsu, Namu Amita Butsu_.
|
| [4] It's known as the 100-syllable mantra, I think? I
| occasionally look back on my time and say "well was I
| _really_ a Tibetan Buddhist if I wasn 't a monk and
| didn't keep with it?" and then the Vajrasattva mantra
| will come back to mind and it's like "Yeah if that's one
| of the things I have memorized then I definitely count."
| wslh wrote:
| I wanted to share an unexpected experience I had during a
| yoga class, specifically a class that included pranayama
| practice, under the guidance of a particular teacher. This
| wasn't something I sought out, and it hasn't repeated since,
| but it left a strong impression.
|
| During the session, I distinctly felt what could be described
| as the "opening of the third eye." However, the sensation was
| much more mechanical than subtle, almost as if my forehead
| was literally opening up. It felt real, but strangely, it
| wasn't part of the practice or anything the teacher
| mentioned. After the session, everything went back to normal;
| it was just this momentary experience during the practice.
|
| I've never come across descriptions of it happening this way
| in any readings on yoga or meditation. Has anyone else had a
| similar experience?
| TriNetra wrote:
| Not exactly sure whether you meant it but here's the thing:
| energies rise up with meditation/pranayama. These give you
| sensations in different parts of the body most notably in
| your eyebrow/forehead/etc. Experiences like Hollow,
| digging, pricking, massaging etc.. I've not just
| experienced profound sensations, but I live with them. In
| every session I experience them daily. IN fact, I'm
| experiencing them right this moment while typing, in my
| forehead, a deep, hollow like sensation, as if some
| energies are digging some hole in the forehead. This is not
| painful or discomforting.
| wslh wrote:
| There are many different experiences, and from a mystical
| perspective, infinite forms of yoga. Your comment seems
| to suggest that this is a normal sensation, but for me,
| it felt anything but normal.
|
| What I'm trying to clarify is that while I did feel a
| very strange sensation, I wasn't necessarily describing
| the same thing you experience regularly. When I look into
| descriptions of third eye sensations, they don't match
| what I felt, which is why it remains a mystery to me.
| helloplanets wrote:
| Meditation is potent and should be treated as such. The good
| and the bad, much like any intense experience in life.
| Something to be especially aware of if you're interested in
| more than just dipping your toes in there. So, not talking
| about the basic ten minute guided mindfulness meditation.
|
| The meditation community (in the west) has a very weird
| relationship with the negative side-effects. We also have a
| poor structure to support any of the weirder effects, without
| just making the recipient of those just feel way more weird
| and/or crazy. Which is the result of it being uprooted from an
| entirely separate framework and brought over, sometimes without
| much care.
|
| In more concrete terms, people have had _bad_ psychotic breaks
| during /after meditation retreats, or just as a result of going
| in too deep, etc. You can read more if you are interested:
|
| https://harpers.org/archive/2021/04/lost-in-thought-psycholo...
|
| https://vivo.brown.edu/display/wbritton
|
| This comes as a shock to some people, even if it's obvious that
| other age old traditions - such as consuming Ayahuasca - should
| be treated with the utmost respect when it comes to the good
| _and_ the bad.
| canjobear wrote:
| Seiken Densetsu!
| underdeserver wrote:
| For those who don't know, "legend of the holy sword" in
| Japanese is Seiken Densetsu, which is a series of popular video
| games by Square.
|
| Seiken Densetsu 1 was released in the US as Final Fantasy
| Adventure.
|
| Seiken Densetsu 2 is Secret of Mana.
|
| Seiken Densetsu 3 was fan-translated in the early 2000s and
| later released officially as Trials of Mana, with a 3D remake
| for the Switch.
| sandspar wrote:
| In Harry Potter, it seems like the key difference between
| successful or unsuccessful spell casting is in one's ability to
| concentrate.
| kfrzcode wrote:
| In esoteric muggle magick it is the same.
| kragen wrote:
| also in programming and math. it's an important ingredient in
| everything difficult except maybe lateral thinking
| rramadass wrote:
| The triad of _Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana_ is what you need for
| "Concentration". See Patanjala Ashtanga Yoga at
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga)
|
| One simple but effective technique is to practice the above three
| stages by focusing at a point where the eyebrows meet the bridge
| of the nose. Do this completely relaxed with eyes closed and
| adjusting the focal point slightly forwards/backwards until you
| feel a sudden relaxation/jolt (slight but distinct) within the
| body. Its like a physiological trick but once experienced you
| will know it and can then use it to calm down and concentrate
| whenever and wherever as needed.
| musha68k wrote:
| Interesting, so you literally >focus< on the executive parts of
| your brain in order to focus.
| rramadass wrote:
| In a sense, Yes; it involves Proprioception
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception) and Body
| Maps/Peripheral Space
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538392) and related
| biological/physiological mechanisms.
| q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
| Forward/backward in which dimension? There's at least three or
| four to sort out.
| rramadass wrote:
| Nothing magical; just front and back of the midpoint between
| the eyebrows until you settle on a point where you get the
| sensation. That is why i called it a "physiological trick".
| ulnarkressty wrote:
| By focus do you mean with your eyes? Do you go cross-eyed?
| advael wrote:
| Well, it was specified that your eyes should be closed,
| so I think this is supposed to be sort of a
| proprioceptive attentional spotlight
| rramadass wrote:
| That is definitely a part of it. See also
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538392
| advael wrote:
| I wonder how the somatotopic map relates to
| proprioceptive awareness. I've kind of implicitly assumed
| that executive functions like the attentional spotlight
| rely on connecting to that area to accomplish conscious
| proprioception, does that book go over how it relates?
| rramadass wrote:
| Yes, but not fully cross-eyed, there should be no strain,
| you are focusing on a point within the "blackness" when
| your eyes are closed. Start with the midpoint between the
| eyebrows and keep your whole focus/attention on it and
| nothing else i.e. let go of everything with no other
| thoughts. Slowly move the focal point back and forth
| until you literally feel a jolt/dropping sensation.
| TriNetra wrote:
| To me focus means to not move the eyes but to bring the
| attention in that area and be aware of the sensations
| there. For example, just bring your attention on your
| left foot big toe at this moment and suddenly you are now
| aware of your big toe which was not in your awareness
| otherwise. Just keep your awareness here and you're
| focusing on it.
| rramadass wrote:
| There is a important point to be made here; viz. The
| physical activity _leads_ the mental focus /attention. In
| your example, flexing and relaxing the left foot big toe
| makes it far easier to bring the focus initially on to
| the activity/sensation at that point and then expanding
| it to overall awareness.
|
| In the exercise i mentioned, you physically focus the
| eyes at a point in the blackness and the mental
| focus/attention follows it simultaneously.
| advael wrote:
| Saggital plane I think
| rablackburn wrote:
| Oh neat, I do exactly this and thought it was just another
| instance of neurodivergent self-soothing behaviour. Turns out
| I'm just practicing my yoga ;)
| rramadass wrote:
| Yoga is not something magical but merely a empirical
| discipline with an accompanying metaphysics developed over a
| long period of time within a cultural context. Tease out the
| essentials from the cultural context and you have a practical
| discipline relevant for everybody today.
|
| For example, Patanjala Ashtanga Yoga gives an all-
| encompassing framework to learn to focus/concentrate and if
| needed, experience a distinct supra-normal mental state (i.e.
| Samadhi). But the last is not necessary and you could use the
| framework to do and feel better in the everyday activities of
| life.
|
| Here is how to do it;
|
| 1) Yama - We are embedded in an environment which influences
| us. Thus we have to practice restraints w.r.t. the
| environment to settle on a equilibrium state where we can
| have some control over how we react to external factors.
|
| 2) Niyama - We are active living beings with certain
| essential everyday needs. These need to be automated away
| using personal discipline so that we don't have to think and
| waste precious mental energy on them.
|
| 3) Asana - Because "we" are housed in a material Body we need
| to take care of and maintain the body so that it is healthy,
| strong and free of diseases leaving us free to work on our
| mental aspects.
|
| 4) Pranayama - The Body and the Mind are linked through the
| Breath. Hence to control the Mind one needs to learn to
| control the Breath first.
|
| The above are the four "external" aspects, the four
| "internal" aspects follow;
|
| 5) Pratyahara - In order to focus and concentrate on one
| thing we first need to "withdraw" our Mind from other things
| and this is the practice of such withdrawal.
|
| 6) Dharana - Now we focus on one thing; it will be momentary
| at first but with repeated practice becomes easier.
|
| 7) Dhyana - Now we hold our attention for long periods of
| time on one thing. This is commonly known as
| Concentration/Contemplation. For all normal everyday
| activities we can stop at this stage.
|
| 8) Samadhi - This is the state where the distinction between
| subject and object does not exist and the individual has
| "dissolved himself" (called "Laya" in Sanskrit). A good
| common example is when people laugh and cry (literally) with
| the protagonist when watching a emotional movie. The key here
| is to be completely permeated by the experience itself with
| no other thought/emotion/feeling (Classic example - Orgasm).
| In modern psychology this can be approximated by the "Flow
| State" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
|
| As you can see, the framework given by Ashtanga Yoga is
| eminently practical.
| noduerme wrote:
| I realize that this is ancient cultural knowledge, and what I'm
| going to say is very crude and sounds utterly stupid. But I
| stumbled upon a similar technique wherein I close my eyes and
| remember my best bowling game ever. That is, a moment which
| lasted 15 minutes that took place 20 years ago when my body and
| mind did exactly what I wanted in sync with each other, and
| performed almost as perfectly together as they ever have.
| Closing my eyes and re-living it for a few seconds gives me an
| endorphin rush and releases seratonin that I can feel elevating
| my mood almost immediately. I only honed in on this one
| experience in a bowling alley as my escape after years of
| trying to replicate various high feelings with drugs. Somehow,
| finding it has become a natural way to re-frame my mind in
| almost any situation. Although I'm afraid of over-using it,
| because the chemical effect is pretty powerful.
|
| To anyone searching for something like this, I'd recommend
| thinking of a peak moment in your life - it could be something
| totally unexpected, like bowling (and listen: I'm not much of a
| bowler!) Just a moment when everything worked perfectly and you
| couldn't make a mistake. And try to re-live that moment behind
| your eyes.
|
| Sounds totally cheesy and ridiculous, I know.
| rramadass wrote:
| You might find the book _The Body Has a Mind of Its Own : How
| Body Maps in Your Brain Help You Do (Almost) Everything
| Better_ by Sandra Blakeslee and Matthew Blakeslee very
| relevant here.
| wslh wrote:
| If you go really mystic, there are infinite yogas, so not
| surprising that you found a different way.
| danuker wrote:
| Bit of a tangent, but I recently learned of "quiet eye" and
| how it is studied to improve aiming in sports.
| rramadass wrote:
| Quiet Eye - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_eye
|
| Actually not tangential but very relevant here. In the
| technique i mention you have to physically focus your eyes
| for the mind to focus its attention there.
|
| In traditional Martial Arts it is said; "Wherever the Eyes
| go, the Mind follows" and the highest stage is "When the
| Body becomes all eyes" i.e. an all-encompassing awareness.
| Philip Zarrilli wrote a book with the above name on the
| South-Indian Martial Art of Kalarippayattu -
| https://archive.org/details/when-the-body-becomes-all-
| eyes-p... It is not a book of techniques but deals with
| traditional philosophies/principles/practices which can be
| learnt from for use with any sport.
| bitwize wrote:
| One time when I was playing Rez1 my consciousness seemed to
| split. There was the me playing the game, and then there was
| the me observing the me playing, spectating my own gameplay.
| By the time I had reached that point, gameplay seemed almost
| automatic. The enemies seemed to practically fly into my
| reticle, to be shot down immediately upon appearing. I
| realized I was somehow blocking my conscious focus from
| commenting on how I'm playing and offering corrections,
| leaving my unconscious free to actually do the work of
| targeting and shooting, as well as my conscious mind free to
| sit back and enjoy the ride. It was an unprecedented
| experience of total concentration on a task.
|
| A further mindblow occurred when I realized that _this is a
| thematic element in the game_. In the upper left corner of
| the screen is a "system log" that describes what you're
| doing and names the things you're shooting down, that can be
| said to represent the mind's "narrator". But you almost never
| look at it because you're more concerned with what's
| happening on the screen. Steering your attention to the log
| means you'll lose focus on the actual gameplay.
|
| Rez is like that. It's almost a metacommentary on the
| experience of playing it, and experience in general,
| sometimes. Everyone should play it.
|
| 1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rez_(video_game)
| bovermyer wrote:
| I tried this and it just made me anxious. I'm probably doing it
| wrong.
| rramadass wrote:
| It is very simple, don't overthink it. Go to a quiet place
| with no distractions, let go of everything mentally and
| physically, be totally relaxed, don't think of anything (i.e.
| Pratyahara) but just try to focus on a point within the
| blackness (i.e. Dharana) and hold your attention there (i.e.
| Dhyana) when you feel a distinct bodily sensation.
|
| Try and do this before falling asleep in your bed at night
| and your quality of sleep will improve greatly. You can also
| do this just after you wake up in the morning in your bed
| (but before looking at your phone, talking to your spouse
| etc.) and you will feel more refreshed than normal.
|
| Once you get the trick you can actually use a home blood
| pressure monitor and see the changes in physiological
| parameters yourself.
| asynchronous wrote:
| Maybe I'm not seeing it but would be nice to have some metrics in
| this study to point to- maybe a control game which changes a
| fundamental part of the concentration mechanic.
| kornork wrote:
| It's not mentioned in the abstract but there's a brain activity
| measuring device involved as well.
|
| So this is neurofeedback. But is it any better than existing
| neurofeedback which already makes use of computer games?
| woolion wrote:
| One interesting point to note is that Arthurian legend, in its
| popular retelling, tends to show Arthur as "the chosen one",
| which is why he was able to pull out the sword. The original
| stories tend to show that Arthur was worthy to become king
| because he understood he needed to apply the right amount of
| force, rather than trying to "overpower" it.
|
| I don't think I would have understood the reference without
| having being told this recently; it is a trial that requires to
| be fully concentrated on sensing how the stone reacts to the
| moves.
| stavros wrote:
| That's interesting, and makes for a reasonable analogy for what
| it's like to govern. Do you have any sources I could read?
| shakna wrote:
| I'm not sure which part of Arthurian legend your mentioning as
| original here, because Arthurian legends are... A rather deep
| well with no real canon as such. In the oldest versions, there
| is no sword in the stone, for example [0].
|
| Along that line, Lancelot, who everyone knows, was a self-
| insert fanfic at one point. [1]
|
| [0] L'Estoire des Engles
|
| [1] Lancelot, le Chevalier de la charrette
| moffkalast wrote:
| > Actuater
|
| Someone wrote this article in a last night frenzy before some
| submission deadline didn't they? :P
| thisisauserid wrote:
| King VRthur.
| aulin wrote:
| A bit tangent but for me the biggest improvement in concentration
| I ever experienced came with nutritional ketosis. I can easily
| enter a flow state and work on the same problem for hours without
| any effort since I've been fat adapted. It's amazing.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-09-14 23:01 UTC)