[HN Gopher] Entire staff of game publisher Annapurna Interactive...
___________________________________________________________________
Entire staff of game publisher Annapurna Interactive has reportedly
resigned
Author : nickcotter
Score : 375 points
Date : 2024-09-13 05:34 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| darby_nine wrote:
| This is hilarious and rather sad. How did Annapurna fumble such
| famous talent so bad?
| NotGMan wrote:
| Probably through "line must always go up" mentality.
|
| Creative business, especially games, should really not be
| publicly traded or thought of as having major returns on
| investments.
|
| It might work on start, but sooner or later the "current hit
| game" will fade out of popularity and then people will get
| fired and crunch will become the norm etc... in order to
| satisfy the "line must go up" mentality, but since game dev is
| a hit driven business that clashes with the "Line must go up"
| concept at its core since, being a hit driven business, means
| that it's totaly unpredictable.
| thih9 wrote:
| Do we have any source or other data indicating that this
| happened here?
| darby_nine wrote:
| Is this not the legally obligated line of thinking for
| american companies? You have some leeway to argue with only
| providing value to shareholders in some specific manner,
| but not much.
| shakiXBT wrote:
| Most companies try to operate at a profit and actually
| increase those profits over time. That said, reasoning
| that Annapurna failed only because of that requires some
| impressive mental gymnastics
| jfengel wrote:
| "Value" is whatever shareholders want it to be.
|
| In the case of a public company that is assumed to be
| profit, because the shareholders are a vast and ever
| changing group. Annapurna isn't public, so it serves
| whatever the private owners want.
|
| Even in a publicly traded stock, the company charter can
| specify something other than profit. The shareholders
| know that when they buy stock.
|
| In other words there is more leeway than we commonly give
| credit. The notion of a fiduciary duty to be greedy is
| pushed by psychopathic CEOs but isn't really what the law
| says.
| Beretta_Vexee wrote:
| The video game business is very similar to the film or
| literary publishing business. You need to publish ten novels
| for one to do well enough financially to pay off the others.
| Nobody really knows why that one worked. It's possible to do
| a few sequels, but the formula quickly becomes boring.
|
| No one can guarantee the commercial success of a novel, film
| or video game.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| That's why equity investment in creative endeavors is an
| entire class of business. Possible to risk-balance
| adjustment, similar to anything else.
| flohofwoe wrote:
| It sounds like a good decision by the team tbh. Blurring the
| lines by 'integrating' functioning teams into a bigger entity
| which does completely unrelated things (TV, film and theater)
| never goes well. The team will most likely found their
| independent 'spin-off' company as they had planned already, no
| talent or knowledge is lost, only risk is financing for new
| projects.
| darby_nine wrote:
| It seems like all their other IP is derived from the game
| IPs, so I'm a little confused how this leaves Annapurna in a
| better position.
| crooked-v wrote:
| It doesn't. It's the people who actually did all the work
| who are benefiting, not the corporate entity. The
| coordinated mass resignations make it obvious that the
| former management is ready to immediately start up their
| own company in the office next door and hire on everyone
| who just quit Annapurna.
| tako wrote:
| Dr Dr
| darby_nine wrote:
| Ah yes you're correct, I misread the above comment.
| schlauerfox wrote:
| And that's why you don't sign non-competes and they
| should be illegal to protect those with no leverage.
| wooger wrote:
| Clearly not accurate, they've produced quite a few famous
| and acclaimed films based on original ideas, Philip K Dick
| novels & real life events.
| darby_nine wrote:
| Ah, my bad.
| flohofwoe wrote:
| Not the parent company, but the game team that resigned is
| in a better position. They can continue focus on building
| games, instead of being 'integrated' with the TV, film and
| theater people (I bet most of that 'integration' is about
| 'outsourcing' CGI work to the 3D artists in the game team -
| e.g. a distraction from making games).
| philistine wrote:
| You're not quite there. Annapurna does not make games, it
| publishes them. There's no significant number of 3D
| artist working there. Even on the movie side, they don't
| directly make the movies.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| They do (did?) have an in-house team working on a Blade
| Runner game, I haven't seen any mention in news coverage
| if that team is out as well
|
| https://annapurnainteractive.com/en/games/blade-
| runner-2033-...
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| From that page:
|
| > From Annapurna Interactive, ...
|
| Sounds like it's the same group. I doubt they're leaving
| with the IP but I also doubt that Annapurna Productions
| is going to make a game with it.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| in particular, media mergers have a long history of going
| south pretty quickly because company culture is so
| fundamental to media production.
|
| AOL+Time Warner is up there in the history of worst mergers.
| a1371 wrote:
| I don't mean to diminish their work and I don't know much about
| the matter but the company founder is some billionaire's
| daughter. I fear ever having a boss like that just because of the
| fundamental difference in perspective and life experiences. I'm
| sure I won't be able to communicate with them.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hmm, I think you have more in common than you differ. It's hard
| to escape the human condition using money.
| xkbarkar wrote:
| A bit myopic to disqualify someone from the credibility pool
| because they had a headstart in life imho.
| jgowdy wrote:
| "but the company founder is some billionaire's daughter. I fear
| ever having a boss like that just because of the fundamental
| difference in perspective and life experiences. I'm sure I
| won't be able to communicate with them."
|
| Imagine invalidating a person as a potential colleague and
| declaring your incompatibility with that person remotely based
| on a quarter inch deep evaluation of their background. I think
| this kind of take is in really bad taste.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| It's "boss", not "colleague"; and they're your boss based
| purely on having a lot of money from their parent, hardly a
| "quarter inch deep" evaluation.
| edm0nd wrote:
| For the curious, the daughter of multibillionaire Larry
| Ellison, the cofounder of Oracle.
| sonofhans wrote:
| > "The report, which IGN can confirm based on conversations with
| our own sources, states that Annapurna Interactive president
| Nathan Gary had recently been in negotiations with Annapurna
| founder and billionaire Megan Ellison to spin the gaming segment
| off as its own company. However, Ellison eventually pulled out of
| negotiations, at which point Gary resigned. Almost 30 other
| individuals, including division co-heads Deborah Mars and Nathan
| Vella, as well as the entire remaining staff of Annapurna
| Interactive, joined him."
|
| From IGN -- https://www.ign.com/articles/annapurnas-entire-
| gaming-team-h...
|
| I don't blame them. I'd rather negotiate my arm out of a shark's
| mouth than the cost of a hot dog with Larry Ellison, or his
| daughter. You don't get that awful rich by ever believing you're
| awful rich enough.
| hinkley wrote:
| Another lawnmower is born.
| robjwells wrote:
| For those who don't get the lawnmower reference, take 5
| minutes and have a hearty laugh:
| https://youtube.com/watch?t=1980&v=-zRN7XLCRhc
|
| (Start at the 33 minute mark if it doesn't jump you there.)
| pcl wrote:
| PSA: it's a link to Bryan Cantrill ranting about the Sun /
| Oracle acquisition. I couldn't make it through 5 minutes of
| his ranting to get to an accurate summary of the joke
| though.
| stavros wrote:
| > You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of
| a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower,
| the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in
| there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think
| 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a
| shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't
| anthropomorphize the lawnmower. Don't fall into that trap
| about Oracle.
| robjwells wrote:
| > "Oh they wanted to kill OpenSolaris!" No, the lawnmower
| doesn't care about OpenSolaris, the lawnmower doesn't
| think about OpenSolaris, the lawnmower _can't_ care about
| OpenSolaris. The lawnmower can't have empathy.
| whstl wrote:
| The lawnmower joke is here:
| https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?feature=shared&t=2303 at the
| 38:23 mark.
| toyg wrote:
| That rant is famous, but I always wonder at the naivety of
| Cantrill and friends. Ellison was already known for being a
| shameless shark since the '80s, 20 years before the SUN
| acquisition. Believing he would leave your little blade of
| grass untouched was always going to be fanciful -
| particularly when they were a loss-making part of the
| company with no-future already.
| Macha wrote:
| I think there's plenty of people who the internet or
| gossip circles hate where that hate is unjustified. At
| the same time, a lot of the worst people are initially
| quite personally charming and keep that face even as they
| screw you over. And I think when people come into contact
| that they've only heard about in gossip in person,
| there's quite often an attempt to be like "well that's
| the caricature of Larry Ellison, maybe he's not actually
| that bad". Face to face contact can weight quite heavily
| compared to "people on the internet".
|
| Combine the two of them and you get a recipe for people
| to give Larry Ellison the benefit of the doubt, taking a
| "well we're adults, let's handle this more maturely than
| immediately doubting our counter party" stance, even as
| people who by their own accounts had heard otherwise.
| Ultimately in this case, Cantrill's experience proved
| "the internet" right, but I think even that might not
| prevent someone else repeating the same situation in the
| future.
| dijit wrote:
| This is extremely well articulated, and is exactly true
| in my experience.
|
| People take gossip as "gossip"- an unrealiable
| approximation and gross-oversimplification of an
| individual. Thus give people with poor reputations the
| benefit of the doubt, believing themselves to be open
| minded. (which is true).
|
| When they are shown just how 1-dimensional some people
| _can actually be_ , and that the gossip depicts people
| precisely, it can be jarring. Especially as, like you
| mention, many people are very personable, charismatic,
| charming etc;
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Idi Amin could be quite charming. Same for another
| dictator, who will not be mentioned, at the risk of
| Godwining the conversation.
|
| He could talk to a family, leave them smitten and
| hopeful, then whisper _" Kill them"_ to the guard, on his
| way out.
| nick3443 wrote:
| Just think about the exceptionally gifted "10x" engineers
| we all meet from time to time. There are people equally
| gifted in charisma and manipulation, they can predict
| what people are feeling and steer them where they want
| them with high success rates. This is what I think of
| whenever I see a politician on video or meet one in
| person.
| Aeolun wrote:
| It's why I now doubt the motives of all people that seem
| too personable :/
| JohnBooty wrote:
| From murders to politicians to CEOs, nearly every
| impactful predator has a lot of positive qualities as
| well.
|
| You don't rise to the top of the food chain without
| having some really sociopathic/narcisisstic traits.
|
| But, you also don't rise to the top of the food chain
| solely by being terrible all of the time. And IMO/IME lot
| of those "good traits in bad people" honestly are
| genuine, not just facades.
|
| This is not to excuse the bad people of the world. It's
| just... honestly, as a middle-aged person myself... it
| has been the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around
| as an adult. The rest of the stuff, I was prepared for,
| on some level.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| "Motives are rarely unselfish". That's good enough.
| hinkley wrote:
| I joke that Larry is from that evil Star Trek universe
| and somewhere in the multiverse a clean-shaven, teddy
| bear of a man is trapped in a universe full of assholes
| because he was tricked into swapping with this Larry.
| ryandrake wrote:
| It's a funny joke, but I think it downplays how much of
| our world is led, run, and inhabited by assholes. It's
| more likely that _we_ are living in the Asshole Universe
| and there is a parallel universe out there where being
| the asshole is an outlier.
| jerf wrote:
| Given the situation that IP was in at the time, I'm not
| sure it was a "believe" so much as a "hope". There wasn't
| much of an alternative.
| hinkley wrote:
| It would have made so much more sense to sell to IBM
| though, and I don't even like IBM. I respected their R&D
| at the time, but their global services division is a
| blight on society.
|
| I can't recall, did the feds block that option?
| ben7799 wrote:
| Yah.. it was well known but when it happens to you it's
| hard to really not try to be open minded. That is why his
| rant is so famous.
|
| I was rolled up into Oracle through a series of
| acquisitions a few years before Sun.. it all went down
| the same way. You know what's going to happen but it's
| still a shock when a manager you knew before you joined
| Oracle and wouldn't have behaved the Oracle way instructs
| you to lie to a customer cause "that's how it's done here
| and we're going to have to go along with it."
|
| You also don't realize how shocking it's going to be to
| see the office re-decorated until they come in and rip
| everything down and put up pictures of Larry's boats and
| airplanes and other toys.
|
| When we were acquired Larry Ellison got on a big
| conference call we were all allowed to join and we could
| raise a virtual hand and ask questions. To his credit he
| answered everything 100% truthfully and transparently,
| and the questions were answered exactly the way the
| Internet expects he would answer.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Well at least he has been honest. Honesty is a luxury
| merchandise you can purchase with a few billion dollars
| for sure.
| hinkley wrote:
| To be a billionaire you need colluders.
| hinkley wrote:
| I thought Sun was just a little misguided and naive and
| then they sold to Ellison and I realized they were a
| bunch of fucking morons. WHY? WHY DID YOU DO THIS??
|
| Cantrill and friends just worked there, but the board
| presumably knew what they were doing.
|
| There was a Wired article that told me everything I
| needed to know about Larry, the way your blind date being
| mean to the waiter tells you not to make a second date.
| It was about the best smart homes. It came out during the
| DotCom boom, before Sun folded. Larry had one of the
| smartest homes in America. It had a remote control. One
| Saturday evening, the article reports, he got furious
| with the system because it wasn't working, so he threw
| the remote and smashed it.
|
| Then he called the company and demanded a new one.
| Someone had to drive, 45 minutes if memory serves, to his
| house to deliver a new remote, on their Saturday night,
| because some petulant man-child had a temper tantrum and
| couldn't wait until Monday.
|
| Fuck that guy.
|
| How much of a pain in the ass you have to be in the
| interview process for a writer to drop that anecdote into
| the article? You know we are only getting part of that
| story.
| amiga386 wrote:
| > I thought Sun was just a little misguided and naive and
| then they sold to Ellison and I realized they were a
| bunch of fucking morons. WHY? WHY DID YOU DO THIS??
|
| Whatever you think of Oracle and the One Rich Asshole
| Called Larry Ellison, IBM as a company are likely worse.
| Sun had a "west coast wheeler-dealer" vibe, as did
| Oracle. IBM had an "east coast button-down shirt" vibe.
| IBM had first dibs and Sun said "no, I may be desperate
| but I'm not _that_ desperate "
|
| If Sun _had_ to be sold (which it did because it was
| consistently losing money hand over fist) and there was a
| choice of IBM, HP and Oracle to sell it to, and only
| those three, which would you pick?
|
| If you've never experienced the IBM culture, this is a
| great essay about Don Estridge (father of the IBM PC)
| which will give you a good flavour of the company:
| https://every.to/the-crazy-ones/the-misfit-who-built-the-
| ibm...
| lordfrito wrote:
| "Don't anthropomorphize Larry Ellison"
|
| Funniest thing I've heard in a while!
| bmacho wrote:
| Or don't waste 5 minutes on this for that.
|
| Direct links pointing closer, and the transcript are
| available in this thread. (At the bottom, for some
| reasons.)
| throwanem wrote:
| Hardly a waste, unless you hate to be entertained.
| spacemadness wrote:
| Counterpoint: That was an excellent use of my 5 minutes.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Larry Ellison is the only person I can think of that I
| instantly know what video is being linked when someone
| shares a link.
| hinkley wrote:
| You grow up an Ellison, I figure you either end up just
| like daddy, a social justice warrior with means, or like
| Mary Trump, a psychologist. Just so you can unpack your
| fucked up family and help others.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Or like Abigail Disney
| hinkley wrote:
| She seems to be leaning toward the sjw trope.
|
| And then there's Sarah Winchester, who instead of
| becoming the psychologist, became a case study in
| psychology.
| 6c696e7578 wrote:
| I should have read this thread, it would have saved me the
| couple of minutes to get the exact same link you just did!
|
| I named my lawnmower Larry.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Imagine having to negotiate with Larry Ellisons nepo daughter,
| how can you even keep a straight face. "It says here you are a
| film producer?"
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| I only found out recently that animated film company Laika
| was created after Nike founder Phil Knight bought his son a
| new career after he failed at being a rapper.
|
| He bought into Will Vinton studios and then forced Oscar
| winning animation pioneer Will Vinton out of his own company.
|
| There's a whole documentary, sad and interesting.
| mhuffman wrote:
| If I recall, it turns out that his "failed rapper" son had
| some sort of natural talent for this and has got nothing
| but accolades even from other animators ever since.
| Although I do get your point.
| J_Shelby_J wrote:
| Yes, they did produce this great movie
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubo_and_the_Two_Strings
| busterarm wrote:
| f me that movie was so great, only to be overshadowed by
| Coco a year later.
| brandall10 wrote:
| He also directed Bumblebee, perhaps the only great film
| in the Transformers universe.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I don't follow? Why is that funny? Why wouldn't she be able
| to be a film producer?
| thoroughburro wrote:
| On average, those who enter a field using money are less
| accomplished than those who enter a field using experience.
| Obviously.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| I think it has to do more with being honest about ones
| core competencies.
|
| There are tons of people who enter a field because
| they're rich, hire great people, connect those great
| people with money, and do very well.
|
| There are also rich people who believe wealth qualifies
| them as subject matter experts, which tends to go less
| well...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Isaacman seems to have his shit together.
| dboreham wrote:
| Also a nice guy. Perhaps not unrelated.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Branson is supposed to be a really decent chap.
|
| I suspect a lot of it has to do with who you surround
| yourself with, and how much agency you give them.
|
| One word that rich people almost _never_ hear, is "no."
| Even really nice ones don 't hear it often.
|
| That means that almost any rectally-sourced, harebrained
| idea they squeeze out, is treated as genius, by their
| entourage.
|
| I know a number of fairly wealthy people, and some of
| them won't have anything to do with me, because I say the
| "N" word. Others, actually ask me what I think.
|
| People rapidly learn that asking me for my input means
| getting an answer that is honest, but not one they might
| want to hear (and that answer might be "I don't know.").
|
| They don't always give it much weight, but at least they
| ask.
|
| Those folks are not always the ones you might consider
| "nice," though.
|
| Just anectdata, though, and the community we share has
| some traits that reward Honesty and seeking counsel from
| others.
| amiga386 wrote:
| > Branson is supposed to be a really decent chap.
|
| Do yourself a favour and read the Tom Bower biographies
| of him, e.g. _Branson: Behind The Mask_
|
| In fact, you can a get a good understanding of him
| indirectly through the testimony in _Tubular Bells: the
| Mike Oldfield story_
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=877&v=UQLDGpcgNTM e.g.
| John Giddings says of Branson "He was a chancer. He was
| prepared to gamble and go for it. He was percieved as a
| visionary, putting it all together, but really he was
| importing records illegally and flogging them, right? He
| was a second-hand car salesman."
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| That doesn't necessarily mean he was a not-nice person.
|
| He's actually fairly well-known for treating his
| employees well. One of the reasons his TV show wasn't so
| popular, was because he wasn't into pitting the
| contestants against each other, and firing the losers.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Fun Fact: Richard Branson had such an antagonistic
| relationship with Mike Oldfield, that Oldfield included a
| segment in one of his albums where he plays a guitar with
| staccato notes that spelled out "Fuck Off R.B." in morse
| code[1], recording under Branson's own label.
|
| 1: https://www.mikeoldfield.org/amarok
| pylua wrote:
| Is this really true? Arguable lance stroll is better than
| Logan in f1.
| _Wintermute wrote:
| Arguably Logan was in F1 to draw American audiences and
| sponsors, also his uncle is a billionaire.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| The comment did not make clear she bought the position.
| It almost seemed more like it was implying anyone who is
| family of some rich guy can't accomplish anything
| themselves.
| dash2 wrote:
| It says this is the company that produced, among other films,
| She? Did Megan Ellison have anything to do with it?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| "Producer" == $WALLET
| rpdillon wrote:
| Her
| WorldMaker wrote:
| It's just as weird that it happens twice in Hollywood today.
| Another of Larry Ellison's nepo baby heirs runs Skydance,
| which has had a bit more success in "blockbuster" terms (and
| has recently been flirting with buying CBS Viacom aka
| Paramount).
| ryandrake wrote:
| Wow, I didn't make the last name connection until reading
| this thread. The Wikipedia page[1] for Annapurna Pictures
| doesn't even mention that the founder is the child of a
| billionaire. It just kind of implies the founder dabbled in
| film school for two semesters, went off to travel the world,
| and then -poof- a media production company is conjured into
| existence. Pretty rosy depiction of nepotism.
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapurna_Pictures
| stefan_ wrote:
| Until she got bored, anyway. You know, I also feel I have
| "grown secluded" from my day job.
|
| > After a series of underperforming productions, in 2019
| Ellison had grown secluded from Hollywood, leaving
| Annapurna to be mostly ran by Nathan Gary, who led
| Annapurna Interactive before being promoted to president.
| She left to Lanai, a Hawaiian island owned by her father,
| and remained there as the COVID-19 pandemic forced people
| to remain isolated.
| rurban wrote:
| Not really nepotism. Megan is one of Hollywoods best
| producers. Far better than her father in his job.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| This is what people with talents should do if they don't agree
| with the super riches who don't do anything substantial but
| inherit a shit ton of money.
| loupol wrote:
| Article is missing some context imo :
|
| * Annapurna Pictures (the parent company of Interactive) had some
| financial issues previously at least (see [0] from 2019) while
| Annapurna Interactive was doing well for itself.
|
| * Annapurna Pictures wanted to integrate the gaming division in-
| house (possibly to prop up the rest of the company)
|
| * Staff and exec at Annapurna Interactive wanted to be spin off
| (see [1])
|
| * Negotiations fell through, so most exec and staff at
| Interactive left
|
| [0] https://variety.com/2019/film/news/annapurna-resolves-
| more-t...
|
| [1]
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-12/annapurna...
| threeseed wrote:
| There is another way to look at this.
|
| Annapurna Pictures in Dec 2022 produced Nimona for Netflix
| which debuted at #9 globally and was as high as #3 i.e. it was
| a massive hit.
|
| So they now have the Stray IP which could be extremely
| lucrative and are looking at how CD Project Red handled their
| successful Cyberpunk integration on Netflix as a model. Which
| is where you cross-promote a game add-on or sequel with the
| movie.
|
| Which means for the gaming side they really wouldn't have any
| control over their direction as it would be entirely driven by
| the movie side. Not exactly compelling for them hence why they
| want to leave.
|
| With the success of Fallout, The Last of Us, Cyberpunk
| Edgerunners etc there's definitely big money to be made from
| video game IP.
| delusional wrote:
| This seems like the same way to look at it. The only
| disagreement between these two comments is if the potential
| integration is motivated by a lack of success, or the outlook
| of even greater success. Those are is, at least economically,
| identical motivations.
| jajko wrote:
| It also goes back, when CP2077 TV show premiered, sales and
| number of players skyrocketed again, same for Fallout.
| InDubioProRubio wrote:
| IP, content, blobs - container words - a sure-fire indicator
| in any conversation that , that the parties involved
| areunable to accurately value, evaluate, organize and
| produce, the valuables that should reside inside the
| container. So here the daily reminder, that logistics is a
| commodity now, but producing something of value, is not.
| sameoldtune wrote:
| "Content" is an advertising term for whatever fills the
| space between all the ads
| Liquix wrote:
| in 2024 there are so many one-click-install adblockers
| for your browser, phone's DNS, router... anyone still
| seeing a sizable amount of ads these days has to be the
| most complacent, easily manipulated, lucrative
| demographic imaginable
| groby_b wrote:
| Or maybe some people have moral qualms with simply taking
| without giving back.
| alexjplant wrote:
| I've always had an intense visceral distaste for
| referring to podcasts, videos, and long-form writing as
| "content," especially when creators use the term. No
| matter how well-meaning or neutral its usage might be, I
| always involuntarily picture an old-timey cartoon farmer
| dumping slop into a giant trough when I hear phrases like
| "bringing you better content" or "being an influencer
| producing the type of content you want to see." I think
| you've just helped me solve the puzzle -- hopefully, this
| will help me shed my negative association with the term.
| Many actually respectable internet personalities I follow
| use it, and I don't like being "that guy."
| bartread wrote:
| I share your distaste for "content". To me the word
| speaks of a lack of interest, understanding, or even
| respect, for what creators are making.
|
| To some extent it does serve a useful purpose in that it
| makes it clear that it is in fact the ads that are the
| main event on these platforms, and that the "content" is
| merely a palatable delivery mechanism for adverts...
| which is a pretty depressing realisation.
| bartread wrote:
| In the context of certain YouTube communities - a couple
| of examples I'm aware of are synthtube or watchtube -
| "content" is also an advertising term for advertising,
| since this is really what many of the demo or "review"
| videos are.
|
| People hawking products on Instagram, TikTok, or wherever
| fall into the same category. The reality is that the
| whole influencer industry is pretty much just hawking
| products and services to people.
| jayd16 wrote:
| IP has pretty clear connotation in games. I don't really
| think it shows what you say. Characters and worlds are IP
| and that IP can be used across media types. Gameplay is not
| IP. A game project can swap or take in IP.
| amiga386 wrote:
| In context of the discussion here - people who are
| talking about "content" or "IP" mark themselves out as
| not having a nuanced understanding of what intangible
| assets they hold.
|
| I think what you mean to say is:
|
| - writing and depictions of characters are _copyrighted_
|
| - writing and depictions of worlds are _copyrighted_
|
| - some of the names involved can also be _registered
| trademarks_
|
| They are intangible rights that someone can own. The
| insidious term "intellectual property" is used to reframe
| the understanding of rights granted by copyright, patent
| and trademark law by comparing them to real property,
| _which they are not_.
|
| When was the last time someone was allowed to live in
| your house, legally, because they're making a parody of
| it? When was the last time someone was allowed to take
| your house apart to find out how to make something
| compatible with your house's design? Owning a copyright
| is not like owning property and does not give you carte-
| blanche control over your intangible asset like real
| property law more-or-less does.
|
| Some examples:
|
| - I can write a book or game about a boy wizard who goes
| to a magical school, as long as I didn't base it on Harry
| Potter. JK Rowling can't stop me.
|
| - I can write about a pirate who acts like an aging
| rockstar, provided I didn't copy Johnny Depp's depiction
| of Captain Jack Sparrow. Disney can't stop me.
|
| - I can write about a martial force voyaging through
| space by analogy to a similar force on the Earth's seas,
| so I can call them _space marines_. Games Workshop(r) can
| 't stop me, provided I don't implicitly or explicitly
| claim they are Games Workshop(r) Space Marines(r)
| threeseed wrote:
| I can assure you that the accountants and executives at
| these studios can absolutely value, evaluate, organise and
| produce the valuables that should reside inside the
| "container".
|
| It's what the entire movie and TV industries have been
| about ever since the idea of sequels e.g. Aliens,
| Terminator and worlds e.g. Marvel took off.
| Maken wrote:
| That seems to be the goal of their partnership with Remedy
| Games, whose games are already pretty much interactive
| movies.
| chupasaurus wrote:
| > how CD Project Red handled their successful Cyberpunk
| integration on Netflix as a model
|
| A reminder that Cyberpunk IP holder is Mike Pondsmith, not CD
| Project.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe?
| alwyn wrote:
| Cyberpunk != cyberpunk, unfortunately.
|
| Cyberpunk 2077 is set in the Cyberpunk RPG universe that
| was created by Mike Pondsmith in 1988.
|
| It was named after the vibe without changing the name...
|
| Also a helpful article: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2
| 019/8/7/20756548/cyberpunk-...
| gs17 wrote:
| The vibe already overloaded the name of a different
| story:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(short_story)
| ivmoreau wrote:
| In this context is referring as Cyberpunk the role
| playing game, rather than just the genre. Cyberpunk 2077
| has a setting based on the role playing board game
| (that's where some characters come from, like
| Silverhand), and that setting is the original IP.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| It's like how Microsoft owns Windows, but not windows.
| mikrl wrote:
| If you got a few of those motorized windows and hooked up
| a laptop running MS' operating system to control them
| all, but only during certain times of day, there would be
| a window where your windows would be Windows windows.
| helpfulclippy wrote:
| You could set up a sweepstakes to install them with some
| complicated terms. Then you could explain to the local
| Vietnamese baker how the rules work -- in other words,
| when does Nguyen Doughs win doze Windows windows?
| rhelz wrote:
| // How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe? //
|
| Same way somebody can hold a patent to a cartoon drawing
| of a mouse. It's not any individual picture of Mickey
| Mouse which is (solely) copywrited; even if you draw
| Mickey Mouse from a different angle, or upside down, or
| turn it into a plush toy, or a popsicle.....or if you
| drew Mickey's twin brother, or even his younger brother
| who bore a family resemblance....
|
| ...what do all those things have in common? If its not a
| "vibe"--a certain essence of Mickey-Mouseness.
| amiga386 wrote:
| You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse
| (that you're implying is the _character_ Mickey Mouse)
|
| You can hold a design patent for the look of a tangible
| object - e.g. the rounded corners of an iPhone. You can
| also hold a design patent for particularly novel
| typefaces (fonts), the layout of a screen (e.g. like
| Norton Commander's twin directory listings on the left
| and right) and for computer icons, but that only covers
| them when they're displayed on screen.
|
| So you could get a patent for the stylised depiction of a
| mouse _as an icon_ , but only in that context.
|
| If you wanted to flex ownership of a fictional character
| design, you get that by _copyright_ , not _patent_. And
| the copyright law on _derivative works_ is what protects
| that fiction character design from being copied or
| evolved by others. But it can 't stop them _parodying_
| your design in order to ridicule it (specifically), so
| you don 't have absolute control over it.
|
| This is why I don't like the use of the term "IP" or
| "intellecual property", as it completely muddies the
| waters as to what your _actual_ rights are, and what
| limitations of "ownership" there are.
| rhelz wrote:
| // You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a
| mouse // No, cartoons are protected by copyright, not by
| patents. And if I'm not mistaken, the original comment
| which wondered if a general vibe could be intellectual
| property was talking about something which would be
| protected by copyright as well.
|
| But the same principle holds for patents. E.g. patenting
| an algorithm. It doesn't matter what language the
| algorithm is implemented in, whether you are running it
| on a binary computer or on some kind of a Chinese room
| set up, etc etc.
|
| Think about how different two turing machines can be
| which implement the same algorithm. They don't even have
| to use the same symbols or states. They could print their
| outputs in English, French or any other natural language.
| The only thing that all Turing machines which implement
| the same algorithm have in common is a "vibe". Same kind
| of general vibe which the original commenter was talking
| about.
| amiga386 wrote:
| You definitely can't patent or copyright "a general
| vibe". You can copyright a specific expression; "Harry
| Potter" is copyrightable but not "boy wizards".
|
| You can patent the _novel_ parts of an _invention_ (and
| in the US, business processes), but most things are not
| novel, and fictional things are not patentable.
| pkaye wrote:
| Patents only last 20 years in most countries. Design
| patents for 15 years in US (I think 25 years in EU.)
| Mickey Mouse has be around for a lot longer than that.
| ENGNR wrote:
| Damn corpos will try to control anything to make a buck
| thrillgore wrote:
| I don't think that's true anymore, I believe Mike sold the
| IP to CD Project and has a stake in the company now, but I
| need to find a source to confirm this.
| stuckinhell wrote:
| Nimona was not a massive hit.
| Maken wrote:
| They were _too_ successful for their own good?
| gorbachev wrote:
| dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41526074
| hashtag-til wrote:
| Any idea why the previous is flagged?
| pvg wrote:
| Most company personnel changes are not particularly
| interesting (in the sense of there's not much 'intellectually
| curious' conversation to be had about them) and are also
| extensively covered and discussed elsewhere.
| mandmandam wrote:
| This story is clearly interesting to the community, or the
| original wouldn't have gotten 40 points in an hour at night
| time. There was absolutely nothing toxic going on in the
| comments either.
|
| Calling it a "personnel change" is also reading as brazenly
| disingenuous.
| pvg wrote:
| _the original wouldn 't have gotten 40 points_
|
| Everything is interesting to someone and HN doesn't
| really work strictly by points, you can find explanations
| of this in lots of the moderator commentary and in the
| site faq under 'how are stories ranked'.
|
| _Calling it a "personnel change" is also reading as
| brazenly disingenuous._
|
| That is certainly one exciting reading.
| mandmandam wrote:
| > HN doesn't really work strictly by points
|
| People were interested nonetheless. 216 points on this
| post with 89 comments is pretty conclusive, strict point
| system or no.
|
| > That is certainly one exciting reading.
|
| Accurate too.
| pvg wrote:
| _216 points on this post with 89 comments is pretty
| conclusive_
|
| Lots of things with piles of points and comments are poor
| HN submissions. Happens all the time and is not in any
| way conclusive. That's basically the explanation, for
| there to be some kind of conclusion you'd have to make an
| argument that isn't about points and comments of a thing
| that's on the fp. Everything on the fp gets points and
| comments.
| mandmandam wrote:
| I didn't want to "quote the old magic" to you, but this
| story is squarely within the HN guidelines. It's
| interesting, stimulating, important, tech related, true,
| timely etc.
|
| The argument that a games company losing their entire
| staff to resignations isn't 'suitable' because "most
| company personnel changes are not particularly
| interesting" is false equivalence.
|
| This thread is full of comments describing what people
| are finding interesting about this. Dismissing that with
| 'every fp story has comments' is a really odd and (dare I
| say) out-of-character move.
| hashtag-til wrote:
| I think this is incredibly relevant for HN readers, maybe
| seen as "subversive" by _bosses_.
| pvg wrote:
| Yes, for every single thing posted on HN, someone thinks
| it's "incredibly relevant". It could well be! But that in
| itself doesn't tell you anything.
|
| _maybe seen as "subversive" by _bosses_._
|
| I don't see it on the agenda in any recent or upcoming
| boss meeting.
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| I hope whatever entity these people reform has the same magic.
|
| Every single game they published had something unique. Outer
| Wilds, Telling Lies, Twelve Minutes, Edit Finch, Neon White, etc.
|
| They didn't develop these games, but they have an eye for talent.
| personjerry wrote:
| In their nascent years I played two of their early games, both
| mobile games - Florence and Gorogoa. Both beautiful. I still
| play Florence once in a while and it really evokes emotions.
| Gorogoa is a great puzzle game that the HN crowd would love.
| Highly recommend both if you haven't tried them!
| j_maffe wrote:
| Both games are incredible but Gorogoa is a masterpiece. It
| attempted to communicate something about humanity that
| couldn't have been expressed in any other form.
| ashwin-b wrote:
| I agree. They are like the A24 for games. They don't make the
| product themselves but invest and promote some really good
| games. Outer Wilds being one of my favourites of all time.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Outer Wilds is top three all-time for me. And hands-down, the
| most underrated game and at least one generation.
|
| it's a good point that the publisher does have an eye for
| talent.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Did you play the DLC as well?
| Wojtkie wrote:
| I didn't enjoy the DLC as much as the base game, but I
| did appreciate what they did with it. I missed flying to
| different planets rather than being confined to one of
| them. The story was really good
| Qwertious wrote:
| PSA: Outer Wilds is not Outer Worlds, which is a completely
| unrelated game from Obsidian.
| jszymborski wrote:
| Thanks, I made that mistake.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| I'm aware. Outer Worlds got all the attention but it was
| a 1/2 expectation Fallout clone.
|
| Outer Wilds was a masterpiece.
| eleveriven wrote:
| I feel the same way! Annapurna Interactive consistently
| published games with something special
| misnome wrote:
| Absolutely. "Annapurna Interactive" essentially made anything
| an instant buy for me. Very disappointed to see what sort of
| undead monster the label will become.
| simonw wrote:
| I adored Donut County, it had everything I could possible want
| from a game about trash pandas and LA county donut culture.
| mintplant wrote:
| Donut County is my favorite game to sit someone down and
| watch them play through in a single sitting.
| amiga386 wrote:
| Everyone has their favourites, but have you not seen
| _Katamari Damacy_ ?
| simonw wrote:
| Doesn't have the king of the raccoons living in a trash
| can version of Griffith observatory.
| duxup wrote:
| What kind of lift is there in just becoming a publisher from
| scratch?
|
| I'm trying to imagine what their role is ... if you can just
| "be a publisher" or if you need a lot of cash up front or what.
| facorreia wrote:
| I don't know the answer, but I imagine that the execs and
| staff that left as a block have some plan lined up.
| oneepic wrote:
| I would add a couple games that moved me (Hindsight, A Memoir
| Blue). but I also have to mention not all of their titles are
| smash hits IMO -- I disliked Florence, Last Stop, If Found, and
| Open Roads.
|
| That said, I agree that their good games have made me a fan,
| and I hope the original staff keeps going in some form.
| facorreia wrote:
| I agree. Seeing the Annapurna logo in a game has become a
| signal to me that I will really enjoy that game and that it has
| a unique, fresh perspective to offer.
| jeffwask wrote:
| They were a top indie publisher who you could rely on releasing
| interesting and quality game. Sad loss for gaming.
| AzzyHN wrote:
| They were one of the few publishing companies that people liked
| as a _publishing_ company.
| eleveriven wrote:
| I am a big fan of Stray! The atmosphere was both haunting and
| beautiful, and the emotional connection you feel as you guide the
| cat through puzzles, etc. Hearing about the uncertainty at
| Annapurna Interactive feels personal a little
| Torkel wrote:
| I have feelings about Stray... What an awesome game it could
| have been!
|
| I played it with one of my daughers. Lovely father/daughter
| playing session. Guiding the cat through the maze/puzzles. Cat
| can't fall, it's just calm and nice.
|
| And then, out of nowhere - blinking screaming wildly stressful
| and awful rats come chase us.
|
| My daughter dropped the controller, I played it through. But
| after that the game lost its charm. The second time the rats
| came, she left. We never played it again.
|
| I checked if there was some "please don't ever give me rats"
| setting, but nope. I checked with a friend and they said the
| rats appear throughout the game.
|
| So I'm really sorry, but stray is a 1/10 game for me. Remove
| the rats and its 9/10.
|
| What is the purpose of the rats? It's an arcade moment in a
| game that was nice, calm, cute and relaxing. Totally breaks the
| contract that I felt was established with us as players.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| It seems you just wanted a different game than what Stray is.
| teamonkey wrote:
| My kids had a similar experience. They had more luck with
| Little Kitty Big City, which has a more cartoony vibe but
| fewer sticking points.
| rlonstein wrote:
| > Little Kitty Big City
|
| +1. This game was adorable and relaxing from beginning to
| end.
| mrgoldenbrown wrote:
| How old are your kids? Stray is rated 12+ for violence.
| Sammi wrote:
| > Totally breaks the contract that I felt was established
| with us as players.
|
| Lots of people like surprise and excitement. The game is
| rated: Age 12+ Violence
| msh wrote:
| They are not rats and they are quite essential to the story
| so they would not be easy to remove.
| yungporko wrote:
| stray has a pretty dark and foreboding atmosphere, the rats
| fit right in imo. seconding the other commenter who
| recommended little kitty big city though, i didn't expect to
| enjoy it as much as i did.
| mafro wrote:
| Played through with my 7yo daughter. She loved the game, but
| would freak out when chased by the "rats". It was a good
| opportunity to show her how to try to keep playing when
| you're stressed! She found it exciting after a couple of
| goes. You didn't mention how old your daughter is, but that
| is surely the key factor.
|
| I'm still hopeful for a "Stray 2" - or whatever they can do
| now the devs lost the IP. My daughter cried when at the
| game's ending (no spoiler)
| aavshr wrote:
| Sad to see, Outer Wilds is probably the best game I've ever
| played. But I'm sure the staff will continue doing great work in
| whatever they decide to do next.
| Maken wrote:
| This is the publisher, not the developer, of Outer Wilds
| imploding. The people who actually made the game are still
| working at the studio.
| nubinetwork wrote:
| Every time I hear thr name Annapurna, I think about the ARM SoC
| maker...
| umanwizard wrote:
| Every time I hear it I think of the restaurant on Capitol Hill
| in Seattle.
| thoroughburro wrote:
| Annapurna is a god of food and nourishment in Hinduism; a
| manifestation of Parvati.
| umanwizard wrote:
| It is also the name of a mountain in the Himalayas which I
| believe is the most familiar meaning to Americans.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I bet the way people in the US say it is nothing like the
| (traditional) way it is said in India.
|
| I think it's supposed to be "un-na-poorna" with a nasally
| rn sound.
| umanwizard wrote:
| AFAIK an r sound is always nasalized when followed by an
| n sound in American English.
| openthc wrote:
| Bong shop in Berkeley, CA
| FrojoS wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapurna Just in case anyone is
| unaware, it's a mountain in Nepal. The 10th highest in the
| world.
| mangamadaiyan wrote:
| The first eight-thousander that was summitted, as well as the
| name of the book that Maurice Herzog wrote. Which book is
| well worth reading.
| thoroughburro wrote:
| > The mountain is named after Annapurna, the Hindu goddess of
| food and nourishment, who is said to reside there.
| Derelicts wrote:
| Aren't these the same guys who published Stray?
| poikroequ wrote:
| It's literally the _first_ game mentioned in the article...
| debo_ wrote:
| I was looking forward to Blade Runner 2033. It's nice to have
| moody adventure games in this era. I imagine that this will delay
| it at the very least, but likely worse.
| actinium226 wrote:
| Makes you wonder, did the last person to leave turn off the
| lights?
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| Good for them!
|
| There's a lot to be said about certain large publishers but this
| publisher's list of games includes some very good titles. Just
| knowing they worked with the developers to release certain titles
| makes me very interested to see who they'll work with next. They
| seem like a group who will become a household name with a little
| luck in their marketing.
|
| I understand why Annapurna would not want to spin off such a
| successful division but it sounds like the only leverage they had
| was existing IP, which the employees probably understand as a
| sunk cost. I'm glad they were all able to realize they could just
| do what they do under a different name; I get the feeling the
| developers they've worked with will remember them and they know
| it.
| sss111 wrote:
| aw man these people made Sayonara: Wild Hearts, which is hands
| down the best iPhone game I have ever played.
| javier_e06 wrote:
| I hope the staff land on their feet...
|
| and move on.
|
| They produced the best games out there and that, remains patent.
|
| What happens next is corporate wrangling less to do with
| creativity and more to do with profits.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-09-13 23:01 UTC)