[HN Gopher] Passive damping - Bathroom scales
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       Passive damping - Bathroom scales
        
       Author : surprisetalk
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2024-09-09 15:58 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thinking-about-science.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thinking-about-science.com)
        
       | Syzygies wrote:
       | Most consumer bathroom scales are programmed to report exactly
       | the same reading twice in a row, when the reading is close.
       | 
       | Passive damping may be smart, but stupid always wins.
        
         | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
         | Interesting. Mine consistently shaves off ~2 pounds if I weigh
         | myself twice in quick succession.
        
           | lultimouomo wrote:
           | This happens on mine if I don't let the scale calibrate
           | before the first measure. The scale turns on if you step on
           | it, so it's tempting to just put both feet on in quick
           | succession while the scale it's still off. That will give you
           | a wrong reading. If you step off, the scale calibrates, and
           | the next reading will be right.
           | 
           | You should get two equal readings if for the first one you
           | push on the scale with one feet, take it off, wait a few
           | seconds, then weigh yourself.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | Oh wow I always wondered why this happened as it felt vaguely
         | weird, I was skeptical that these things were accurate enough
         | to be so repeatable, but never suspected this.
        
         | gurjeet wrote:
         | This is why, between two successive measurements, I place one
         | foot on the scale to measure the weight of just one leg (comes
         | to 18-20 lbs). And the following (third) measurement is
         | sufficiently different from the first one. I use this "weird
         | trick" when I'm not happy with the first reading, and want a
         | second opinion ;-)
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | That explains why I've sometimes weighed myself, peed, and then
         | found that I gained weight
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | I bought a cheap $20 off amazon and it was seemingly accurate
         | to 0.1 lb. I tested by weighing myself plus a bowl with varying
         | amounts of water and there's no "report the same weight if the
         | measurements are close" behavior you describe.
        
       | rainbowzootsuit wrote:
       | Often I see these mixed up:
       | 
       | Damping is restraining oscillation.
       | 
       | Dampening is making something wet.
        
         | groestl wrote:
         | In German, "dampfen" means all of the above, and also "cooking
         | in hot steam" :)
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Dampening is also restraining.
        
       | amluto wrote:
       | I've never taken apart a bathroom scale or tried to measure any
       | of the above, but my intuition is that this article completely
       | misses the point. Bathroom scales don't deform a whole lot, and
       | humans are squishy! When you take a running leap onto a
       | playground swing, you are part of an oscillating pendulum. When
       | you step onto a scale, sure, there will be a transient, but there
       | will also be a whole lot of noise as you balance, wiggle,
       | breathe, etc, and I bet the latter is dominates the former.
       | 
       | A self-respecting bathroom scale (not the kind that is
       | intentionally biased to read the same number twice in a row) acts
       | like a moderately low-pass-filtered sensor. As you move a bit,
       | _the number changes_.
       | 
       | So the scale is averaging over time, not waiting for some very
       | stiff internal spring to stop oscillating.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | That does seem likely. You gotta think the scale is stiff
         | enough that it'll settle down in well under a second.
        
       | senectus1 wrote:
       | when I renovate my bathroom I'm making a perfectly flat surface
       | just for the scales. Bathroom floors are not flat and when you
       | put scales on them the torquing of the scales messes with its
       | mesurements.
       | 
       | I can move my "smart scales" around the room and get a different
       | result each time.
        
         | Yodel0914 wrote:
         | It would be less work to turn "bathroom scales" into "bedroom
         | scales". Bathroom floors are not level for a good reason.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | > _Bathroom floors are not level for a good reason_
           | 
           | Most residential bathrooms do not include a drain in the
           | middle, at least in my part of the world.
           | 
           | Most residential bathroom floors here are as level as the
           | tradesman can get them.
        
             | 1d22a wrote:
             | Huh, interesting. That's not the case in Australia, in all
             | the houses I've seen. I always thought it was smart,
             | though.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | It's very common (maybe even code?) in commercial
               | bathrooms in the US as well.
               | 
               | Not sure if the residential code is lagging, or if it's
               | just not a popular design here.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | Is it really that important to weigh yourself THAT accurately?
         | Your weight fluctuates throughout the day anyways, right?
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | Yeah, even with a perfect measuring-scale, people should be
           | ignoring its daily reading in favor of a running average
           | across multiple days.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | A running average is useless for something like a weight-
             | losing diet (or for a weight-increasing diet). It is good
             | only for verifying that your weight is stable.
             | 
             | When you are serious about losing weight, you must measure
             | your weight every day at the same time and in the same
             | relationship vs. eating/drinking and eliminating that.
             | 
             | You must lose weight neither too slow, nor too fast. A rate
             | of around 100 to 150 grams per day is good.
             | 
             | Especially at the beginning of losing weight, accurate
             | measurements of the weight are essential for adjusting the
             | diet, i.e. when there is no weight loss one must eat less,
             | and when the weight loss is too great, one can eat more.
             | 
             | A running average could not guide efficiently your
             | decisions for the current day, whether to eat more or less.
             | Most likely it would result in big oscillations around the
             | ideal weight losing rate.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | Can you really measure your weight that accurately? What
               | about your body's hydration level, or whether you've just
               | taken a dump or not? Those would probably skew your
               | measurement by half a pound.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | Like I have said, you have to take the measurement every
               | day at the same time and in the same order with respect
               | to eating, drinking and dumps.
               | 
               | And yes, you can measure that accurately.
               | 
               | I had been obese for many years and I had many failed
               | attempts to lose weight. This has changed only after I
               | bought accurate digital scales and I have started to
               | measure carefully, every day at the same time and in the
               | same conditions.
               | 
               | During a day, your weight will vary a lot, perhaps by
               | more than two pounds between the maximum and the minimum.
               | Nevertheless, if you take care to measure at the same
               | point every day, the accuracy is good enough, the
               | uncertainty is less than 1/10 of a pound, if you are
               | careful.
               | 
               | When I was losing weight, I could see very clearly the
               | effect of eating one spoon more or one spoon less per day
               | of certain foods, so I was eventually able to lose one
               | third of my initial body weight, in about ten months.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | > A running average is useless for something like a
               | weight-losing diet
               | 
               | I disagree, it worked fine for me, validating my ongoing
               | calorie limits and estimates across several months and
               | dozens of pounds.
               | 
               | > A running average could not guide efficiently your
               | decisions for the current day, whether to eat more or
               | less.
               | 
               | That's just using the wrong tool for the wrong job. You
               | don't don't starve yourself today because you were
               | constipated yesterday. (Or if you do, it's for issues of
               | immediate discomfort rather than a dieting goal.)
               | 
               | Instead, you eat a consistent number of estimated
               | calories, adjusting it to fit the observed trend in
               | weight loss.
               | 
               | Paying too much attention to daily data points is also a
               | psychological danger, people will put too much emphasis
               | on noisy/singular data point and then use that as a
               | rationale to give up or cheat.
        
         | cruffle_duffle wrote:
         | Just build it into the floor like they build truck scales into
         | the road.
        
           | seanhunter wrote:
           | ...or just gain weight up to the point you can use an actual
           | truck scale to weigh yourself. Seems more efficient to me.
        
           | dspillett wrote:
           | That leaves you with a problem when it breaks, or the maker
           | goes out of business so all the smart features (or in some
           | cases the basic ones too) stop working, or the maker decides
           | it isn't taking enough money from you so starts hawking ads
           | before it'll show you any or your information, ... You'll
           | probably have a remodelling job to do to make any replacement
           | device fit, rather than just placing the new device on the
           | same flat surface.
        
       | alliao wrote:
       | thanks... I can rest easy that this is possible cause to why my
       | kitchen scale is so slow... do not get a SOEHNLE Page scale if
       | you value your sanity. It is so slow it can serve up counting
       | down ads....
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | I tried repeatability on a few electronic scales at the shop and
       | none had it, so I stuck with my old mechanical scale. Reason: It
       | Just Works.
        
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