[HN Gopher] Lottery Simulator (2023)
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       Lottery Simulator (2023)
        
       Author : airstrike
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2024-09-10 21:09 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (perthirtysix.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (perthirtysix.com)
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | Now I just need to scrape the data on all major lotteries
       | worldwide, plop them all into the simulator, make some
       | assumptions about exchange rates and figure out where in the
       | world I should bet on the lottery to get the best payout!
        
       | itake wrote:
       | the expected value of each ticket is negative, but going from 0
       | tickets to 1 ticket, increases your chances of a big win by
       | infinity.
       | 
       | Going from 1 to n tickets, isn't necessarily wise
        
         | caseyy wrote:
         | Estimated monetary value might be a wiser metric to use :)
         | 
         | Going by the calculator, EMV of going from buying 0 tickets to
         | 1 is -$1.85 for Mega Millions, same as going from n to n+1; n
         | >= 0. The first ticket is the first one you lose with,
         | statistically.
        
         | BizarroLand wrote:
         | I think the saying goes buying a lottery ticket only marginally
         | increases your chance of winning.
        
         | BigParm wrote:
         | Your chances were 0, you buy a ticket, and now your chances are
         | x. Where x is not infinitely greater than 0, it's x greater
         | than 0. Pretty sure your proposition implies that 2 tickets
         | provide the same odds as one ticket (2 infinity vs 1 infinity).
         | 
         | I haven't gotten into the discrete math in many years. If
         | you're right do you mind explaining please? I can intuit what
         | you're getting at. 0 odds * inf < (odds with one ticket). Is
         | that a decent description?
        
         | ff317 wrote:
         | That's kind of how I look at it, in practice. I get the
         | mathematical reality that buying lotto tickets is a financial
         | waste. However, if I never buy a single ticket, there is a
         | definite 0% chance I'll ever win the big prize. Whereas if I
         | play at all, at least there's a chance, however remote, of a
         | quite life-changing positive event happening. So, therefore, it
         | makes sense to put a very small amount of totally throw-away
         | income into big-prize lotto tickets, just so you're in the game
         | at all.
         | 
         | Based on this kind of thinking, my personal rules are: never
         | spend more than 0.1% of take-home pay per time-period buying
         | tickets, and only buy big-prize lotto tickets that have
         | potentially-life-changing payouts.
        
           | seagullriffic wrote:
           | This is almost exactly how I think about it too - a good
           | repeatable mental model is "infinite upside / near-zero
           | downside".
           | 
           | These massively asymmetric choices occur elsewhere in life,
           | e.g. "asking them out on a date"; "asking for a raise", and
           | are good to look out for.
        
       | ldbooth wrote:
       | Very cool visualization. This will save me a few bucks next time
       | I think about playing.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | I think this lottery simulator is a scam. I played a hundred
       | thousand games and never made my money back.
        
         | madamelic wrote:
         | You obviously haven't played enough. You stopped right before
         | you hit it big!
        
       | zzanz wrote:
       | I used to work at a lotto counter in my towns supermarket. When I
       | started I noticed alot of older regular buyers, a weekly lotto
       | purchase like the daily newspaper. However, as the younger
       | generation started bringing in kids I didn't see this habit,
       | instead just an occasional purchase for a birthday gift or
       | rolling the dice because the jackpots gotten big enough (funnily
       | enough the time when the chance of winning is actually lowest).
       | 
       | Overall I would consider lotto small next to the scratch cards
       | (our countries version at least). I have never seen a more
       | predatory marketing strategy, and completely swept under the rug
       | next to lotto being berated with anti-gambling campaigning. To be
       | fair, lotto is bad, but scratch cards are much, much worse.
       | 
       | A memory that stuck for me was a customer blowing well over $100
       | bucks on scratchcards over 20 minutes, just pulling over and
       | over, then getting card declined at the grocery checkouts.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | > funnily enough the time when the chance of winning is
         | actually lowest
         | 
         | Not really?
         | 
         | The odds of winning are the same regardless, because you need
         | to match every number to get a jackpot. Really, there is just
         | an increased chance of splitting a jackpot with another person
         | when the prize gets really large, since more tickets are
         | generally sold. But I imagine EV of a lottery ticket with a $1B
         | jackpot is still higher than the same lottery ticket when the
         | jackpot is $100M.
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | There's a balance between jackpot size and a given drawing's
           | popularity for sure.
           | 
           | There are also bad number choices and good number choices.
           | 1,2,3,4,5,6 is a _terrible_ selection, for example. Not
           | because it is somehow "less random", but because you're
           | guaranteed to be splitting that jackpot with a 1,000 other
           | nerds who were trying to prove a point!
           | 
           | To a lesser degree, choosing numbers under 31, or under 12,
           | will put you in a collision space with other players who like
           | to choose birthdays.
           | 
           | Just use the random pick and don't think about it. If you do
           | win the jackpot, you have higher odds of being the only one.
        
           | jamie_ca wrote:
           | Maybe, "the time when expected value is the lowest"?
           | 
           | The BC 6/49 lottery (6 balls 1-49, one bonus ball) for
           | example has 53% of the common "prize pool" split amongst all
           | 4-ball matchers, so if you're not hitting the jackpot you get
           | less cash out of a high-demand drawing.
           | 
           | And given the prize pool is something like 18% of net
           | receipts... yeah EV is still well in the negatives.
        
       | eig wrote:
       | Cool visualization!
       | 
       | It would've been nice to not assume only one lottery winner.
       | People tend to pick numbers that are meaningful for them:
       | birthdays, favorite numbers, lucky numbers. Thus it actually
       | significantly increases your EV if you pick unusual numbers,
       | which is not reflected here.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | So, for Mega Millions:
         | 
         | For 1-70: Consider numbers above 31 (days of month)
         | 
         | For 1-25: Similarly, numbers above 12 might be less common
         | (months of year)
         | 
         | What other numbers above 31 would you want to avoid? 33, 44,
         | 50, 69, 70? And you might want to avoid sequences as well.
        
       | shriracha wrote:
       | Hi! I made this tool. I saw it had way more traffic than usual
       | and then realized it was from HN, very cool!
       | 
       | Would love to hear any feedback. I've been super interested in
       | how well-designed web apps and visualizations can communicate
       | things like probability, which I think is very hard to intuit for
       | many of us.
       | 
       | The most surprising thing I learned from the tool was just how
       | bad your payouts usually were even if you cut the pool of numbers
       | to pick from in half (by using the "Custom" option).
        
       | fragmede wrote:
       | On the subject of winning the lottery, the story that goes untold
       | is of the MIT crew that gamed Massachusetts' Cash Windfall circa
       | 2007.
       | 
       | https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/how-mit...
       | 
       | There's a movie out starring Walter White, of the Selbees side,
       | called Jerry and Marge Go Large, but which talks about the story,
       | but portrays the MIT kids poorly for dramatic effect.
        
       | islewis wrote:
       | Can someone explain to me how the EV can be so incredibly low? I
       | know the answer is because people will buy the tickets no matter
       | what, but even compared to other losing games the lottery comes
       | away looking like an absolute bandit.
       | 
       | A run on the simulation (n=1000000) comes back with -92% EV. It
       | looks like -10% [1] is a rough estimate for slot machine EV,
       | which I would ballpark into the same game genre (-EV, no skill
       | entertainment) as the lottery.
       | 
       | What accounts for this payout discrepancy in what I would
       | consider similar games? On that train of thought, what prevents a
       | new lottery from coming in and offering a _generous_ -50%
       | lottery, offering ~5x as much money as before?
       | 
       | [1]* https://www.888casino.com/blog/expected-value
        
         | elseweather wrote:
         | In the US at least they're a state monopoly
        
         | serf wrote:
         | >On that train of thought, what prevents a new lottery from
         | coming in and offering a _generous_ -50% lottery, offering ~5x
         | as much money as before?
         | 
         | federal-level gambling syndicate isn't something that a private
         | party can easily jump into.
         | 
         | so the answer is : a mix of 'grandfather'd-in' and
         | protectionism, if we're talking U.S. here.
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | The EV is so low because you didn't hit the jackpot once, and
         | probably didn't even hit the 1 million. Really rare impactful
         | events can really modify linear averages by a lot.
         | 
         | Try it over 1,000,000,000 tickets.
         | 
         | (The EV of the MegaMillions should hover around 50%)
        
         | cataflam wrote:
         | Because you shouldn't use the simulator to calculate the EV, or
         | said differently your n=1000000 is too small.
         | 
         | Assuming you used the first lottery example (Mega Millions),
         | the EV is easy to calculate directly and is -$0.66/ticket, ie
         | -33%
         | 
         | The jackpot is a whole $1 of that EV! Without it, the EV is
         | -$1.75/ticket, ie -87%, which is closer to what you got in the
         | simulation.
        
       | hellojesus wrote:
       | Does this have any way of simulating multiple plays per draw? I'm
       | curious what happens to EV when you buy X tickets per draw
       | instead of just 1. And for both circumstances: (a) ensure all X
       | tickets are unique and (b) random entries with replacement.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | Humans are so weird... No matter how simple you make a slot
       | machine, for some reason it's still compelling to play.
       | 
       | On one of my runs, I won $1 million which put my numbers in the
       | green for a while before slowly going into the red again.
       | 
       | That's going to legitimately brighten the rest of my day.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-10 23:00 UTC)