[HN Gopher] Tomato64: A port of Tomato Firmware to x86_64
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       Tomato64: A port of Tomato Firmware to x86_64
        
       Author : ls65536
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2024-09-06 16:12 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tomato64.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tomato64.org)
        
       | EvanAnderson wrote:
       | This makes sense. Years ago I used OpenWRT as a lightweight
       | "network utility" VM in a number of Customer sites. The UI was
       | comprehensible to the in-house IT staff (i.e. it didn't "look
       | like Linux") and there's a ton of functionality. I could
       | definitely see it being useful on bare metal devices.
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | I did the same for a virtual lab for experimenting. OpenWRT ran
         | as the router VM with two network interfaces and the rest of
         | the instances connected to a VirtualBox internal network that
         | was configured as its LAN side.
        
       | mysteria wrote:
       | How is Tomato compared to the typical x86 choices PfSense or
       | Opnsense?
        
         | slipheen wrote:
         | Having used both at home, Tomato is much easier for doing
         | standard home WiFi things. You can change wireless power
         | levels, setup guest networks, etc easily within the UI.
         | 
         | Pfsense/opensense is easier when you have complicated routing
         | needs, like multiple vlans with various split tunnels, etc.
         | 
         | It's not 100% accurate, but imo if you want a short-hand you
         | could say tomato is WiFi focused with routing support, and
         | opensense is routing focused with WiFi support.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | It's first and foremost a WiFi router OS and it's aimed at home
         | users. PfSense is very much a "big guns" solution and is
         | typically not installed directly on WiFi routers, rather it is
         | the gateway that everything runs through.
        
         | tracker1 wrote:
         | It's pretty great for home router/wifi usage or SOHO... not as
         | advanced/flexible as pfsense/opnsense though. I miss Tomato a
         | lot myself, but switched to separate router/ap a few years ago,
         | and haven't had a device that could run tomato in close to a
         | decade now.
        
       | sulandor wrote:
       | what is the rationale behind this effort? are wifi-ap's moving
       | towards x86?
       | 
       | ime a usb wifi stick in a desktop computer will work as wifi-ap,
       | but is somewhat janky because of the metal case (which is needed
       | because em-interference from bus-clocks) and the wifi hardware
       | having suboptimal provisions for ap-mode.
       | 
       | UPDATE:
       | 
       | "because we can" (was a stupid question)
       | 
       | no hard feelings; last used tomato ~20y ago on a wrt54gl
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Use case would normally be a small form factor x86_64 machine
         | which can be price competitive with high end AP hardware and
         | you don't have to play the game of finding compatible hardware
         | (squatting in the aisle in a walmart looking at the hardware
         | revisions of all of the APs they have in stock finding out that
         | they have the AP you were looking for but the hardware revision
         | was incompatible)
         | 
         | Being able to buy a "normal" computer and install tomato on it
         | is a more attractive prospect for a lot of reasons.
        
         | ssl-3 wrote:
         | Tomato is just a Linux-ey system that routes packets and which
         | features an approachable GUI, and an access point is just a
         | system that bridges wireless networks to wired networks.
         | 
         | These functions are normally wrapped up in one box in the
         | consumer space, but they're still very different functions.
         | 
         | And maybe I'm not doing it right, but I myself haven't used a
         | combined router+wireless box in a fair number of years at home
         | or at the shop.
         | 
         | I keep the wired networking+routing back end in one spot where
         | it makes sense, and I keep the wireless access points where
         | they make sense to provide good coverage where I need it.
         | 
         | My router just routes, and my wireless access points just
         | provide wireless access.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | So to answer your first question directly: This system lets
         | people use the friendly Tomato system on any old (or new, or
         | whatever) x86 hardware they have. It brings it out of the world
         | of hacks[0] on cheap low-performance embedded Wal-Mart routers
         | and lets a person use it for routing on a much more performant
         | machine.
         | 
         | [0]: Not that those things aren't fun. I still have the first
         | standalone router I ever bought -- a Linksys WRT54GS, with
         | Tomato installed, and with an SD card hacked in using a card-
         | edge connector from an old floppy drive cable for expanded
         | storage.
        
         | tencentshill wrote:
         | It's quite expensive to get a 10GBe-capable home router and
         | switch, but this now allows you to use any old x86 PC and a
         | 10GBe networking card to create one of your own. That's what
         | I'm going to try.
        
           | sulandor wrote:
           | 10gig software switch is easy, 10gig software router medium,
           | 10gig software dpi challange
           | 
           | it's a nice exercise but the power and space requirements in
           | relation to the performance will generally not be favorable
           | unless you are severely constrained in up-front budget
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | I've been using DD-WRT x86 for a few years, so it's very
         | similar to what Tomato x86 is doing. When I upgraded to 1gbit
         | internet, my old high-end Netgear router that I paid hundreds
         | of dollars for couldn't keep up. And I knew 2Gbit internet was
         | coming, and now they're offering up to 7gbit fiber speeds.
         | 
         | New routers with faster CPUs to keep up with the increasing
         | bandwidths are costing about $700. No way am I spending that
         | kind of cash for a router, even if it has the latest Wifi.
         | 
         | Instead I bought a cheap $50 Dell from ebay with a quad-core i5
         | CPU, I installed DD-WRT x86 on it, I put in a cheap 4 x 1gbit
         | ethernet card, and I bought a cheap refurb Wifi 6e router and
         | use that only for the wireless functions. All-in it's about
         | $200. Now I can keep the same main x86 router hardware and I
         | can keep upgrading my internet speeds as well as upgrade the
         | wifi externally whenever I find it necessary (and I can find a
         | cheap wifi radio).
         | 
         | The DD-WRT maintainers were also very helpful (and in a timely
         | way) when I requested they add a 2.5gbit NIC to the DD-WRT
         | drivers, so now I have upgraded to a 2.5gbit network. And if I
         | want to put in a 10gbit NIC someday, maybe they'll help out
         | again. I know, I should move to something "more modern" than
         | DD-WRT, but it suits my needs well for now, and someday I'll
         | probably be moving to a different x86 based router software
         | should DD-WRT not be able to keep up with my needs.
        
       | vaporary wrote:
       | I've been enjoying FreshTomato on my home router for a number of
       | years now.
       | 
       | Sometimes, though, there are network environments I'd like to
       | implement which are difficult to configure through the webUI, but
       | which would be relatively trivial from a Linux CLI. For example,
       | I'd like to create an ESSID which is bridged to a tagged VLAN,
       | but on which the router has no layer3 presence. Or, maybe I'd
       | like to setup a wireguard link, but only send selective traffic
       | down it using firewall marks and policy routing.
       | 
       | What I'd really like is a way to use the webUI to setup my
       | initial base configuration, and then flip a switch to turn off
       | the webUI, and implement further changes myself by editing
       | configuration files on the device and calling out to shell
       | scripts when needed to run "ip" and "brctl" commands.
       | 
       | Does anyone know if such a thing is possible with FreshTomato,
       | OpenWRT, or something similar? Am I just thinking about this
       | wrong?
        
         | RiverCrochet wrote:
         | I think in OpenWRT you can disable uhttpd in the Startup tab to
         | prevent the Web UI from running.
        
         | ssl-3 wrote:
         | It has been many years since I've run any version of Tomato on
         | anything, so I won't guess about the present state of that.
         | 
         | But I think I can answer your question.
         | 
         | These days, at least at home, I run OpenWRT on a Pi 4 (because
         | it was cheap at the time).
         | 
         | I use its web interface for the usual mundane poking and
         | prodding.
         | 
         | And when I want something special, I just add a simple startup
         | script like I would have done on any other Linux box back when
         | init systems were plain and dumb.
         | 
         | This same thing should also work on any other OpenWRT
         | installation that has a writeable filesystem (instead of, eg,
         | SquashFS).
         | 
         | And no, I don't think you are thinking of this wrong as a
         | concept. It's a home network and not enterprise, and at the end
         | of the day these things are all just Linux machines with a nice
         | GUI. I think it is totally cromulent to mold them to your will.
        
       | 9front wrote:
       | Tomato ain't got nothin on OpenWRT!
        
       | tracker1 wrote:
       | Currently running OpnSense on an N100 MiniPC... while this
       | wouldn't meet my needs, I know a lot of people it would work for
       | in a SOHO / Forbidden Router configuration on a MiniPC.
        
       | faebi wrote:
       | Is it realistic to get 10gbits networking?
        
       | tredre3 wrote:
       | I really like Tomato's UI, it's very intuitive. Especially how
       | easy it is to create virtual SSIDs and isolate them on their own
       | VLAN. It's two clicks. It will create the bridge and the VLAN and
       | the DNS for you. Comparatively, in LuCI you have to do all those
       | steps separately in different pages and somehow know how to make
       | it all work.
        
       | whydoyouasking wrote:
       | D is for documentation:
       | https://images2.imgbox.com/26/dc/giFbE9qs_o.png
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | This is pretty nice. Sometimes I wish Tomato was as popular as
       | OpenWRT in the SBC space.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-10 23:00 UTC)