[HN Gopher] iPhone 16 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro Max
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iPhone 16 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro Max
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 298 points
       Date   : 2024-09-09 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Probably gonna upgrade from my iPhone 11 to a 16 Pro, seems like
       | a good time to make the jump (also I'd need a battery replacement
       | anyway and I rather spend that money on the new phone)
        
         | atlasunshrugged wrote:
         | I was thinking the same for my 12 mini. Love the form factor
         | but the battery life is just atrocious.
        
           | zoba wrote:
           | I'm in the same boat. Not excited about upgrading to these
           | phablets (hyperbole) but the battery life is forcing me to.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | App support is forcing me. My iPhone 7 still does
             | everything I need, but 3rd party developers have stopped
             | supporting it. I don't mind if I stop getting updates, but
             | some of these developers are _blocking_ my use of existing
             | apps with a full-screen modal, telling me I need to buy a
             | new phone in order to continue using the app (FlightAware,
             | for example). Perfectly good phone, probably going into the
             | landfill, for no reason other than to appease app
             | developers too lazy to retain already-working code for
             | older devices.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | refurbished iPhone SE (3rd gen) here. Was really hoping
               | they'd announce a 4th one today but the third gen
               | continues to be supported.
        
               | jerlam wrote:
               | I think iPhone SEs are usually announced in spring, don't
               | want anything to take away from "the big event".
        
               | raydev wrote:
               | The 7 is coming up on it's 8th birthday, on the bright
               | side that's a pretty good run.
               | 
               | Is FlightAware blocking use of the app now? I assume it's
               | because they've dropped support for iOS 15 (which can be
               | a hassle depending on new APIs they want to use), not the
               | 7 device specifically.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Yea, they likely want to move on from iOS15, which is
               | fine[1]. But at least let existing users with the
               | existing iOS15-working app keep using that app version.
               | But no, instead, they issued a final "update" which does
               | nothing but block iOS15 users with a full screen modal
               | that you cannot skip (as far as I can tell). Totally
               | overboard. I hope this doesn't start a trend.
               | 
               | 1: I don't see what the big deal is to just put if
               | statements around any iOS16-requiring new features, yet
               | keep targeting iOS15. We did this all the time back when
               | I used to write iOS apps.
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | Keeping my 12 Mini; I just ended up getting a 2nd-hand
           | MagSafe battery. It's small enough to have in a bag or pocket
           | without a second thought, no cables to carry around and turns
           | into a wireless charger when I'm not using it.
        
           | forgotacc240419 wrote:
           | I've the 12 and it's bad but not atrocious just yet. Have
           | been told the 13 mini is much better so I'll probably get one
           | of them next.
        
           | nyarlathotep_ wrote:
           | I really just want a 12/13 mini with a 120hz screen and
           | marginally better battery life
        
           | ninininino wrote:
           | Nowadays you can go in and just get a battery replacement
           | directly from Apple as long as you didn't smash your device
           | too badly.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | I am also on 11. To be honest, I do not want to jump from LCD
         | to OLED, for me it's a downgrade:(
         | 
         | (I often use it on low brightness in dim ambient light)
        
           | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
           | I went from 11 Pro to 15 Pro and found the screen to be a
           | nice upgrade. OLED on the new iPad Pro is fantastic as well
           | in my experience so far.
        
           | risho wrote:
           | what is wrong with oled?
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | it won't dim as well without more obvious flicker compared
             | to lcd. they make oleds look dimmer by pulsing leds at peak
             | brightness
             | 
             | also: burn in
        
             | cherioo wrote:
             | OLED uses PWM to modulate brightness, which makes some
             | people uncomfortable due to eye sensitivity.
             | 
             | All phone OLED exhibits this, though iphone is one of the
             | more egregious ones.
        
               | Aaargh20318 wrote:
               | Don't they also use PWM to dim the LED backlight on LCD
               | displays?
        
               | throwaway290 wrote:
               | It doesn't go to full black and maybe other reasons it is
               | less noticeable. You can compare with a slo mo camera
        
           | bryanlarsen wrote:
           | > (I often use it on low brightness in dim ambient light)
           | 
           | I'm curious, why? I hate the whole screen glow of LCD in low
           | light, much preferring the pure black of OLED.
        
             | kiririn wrote:
             | LCDs are more accurate in low light, but OLED can reproduce
             | readable text at lower brightness from its higher contrast
             | 
             | Swings and roundabouts... for some people the grey tinge
             | and messed up gamma curve of low brightness OLED is
             | unacceptable. For others text readability in darkness is
             | key
             | 
             | There's also the PWM argument which has been beaten to
             | death
        
         | kubectl_h wrote:
         | Same here, satellite messaging alone is enough to get me on
         | this upgrade cycle. Beyond that though I am quite content with
         | my 11 Pro, though I am looking forward to some of the AI stuff.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Ehh. Lacklustre.
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | Just curious, what specifically were you hoping for - from a
         | product that is 17-years old?
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | Not that it was ever in the rumour mills, but smaller,
           | thinner and longer battery life would have been nice.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | At this point its just sad that its spec bumps on what imo is
           | a pretty poor iteration of their own product. They had better
           | ideas in the past that I wish they would rehash just for the
           | sake of offering more skus to choose from vs "small and
           | large." I liked 3d touch. I liked touchid. I liked having a
           | headphone jack. I liked a small and lightweight phone. I
           | liked a phone that actually sat flat on a table. It's just a
           | shame that this is clearly never going to be made by them
           | today, and being reminded of this through yet another paltry
           | spec bump with stingy storage offerings that's been all too
           | typical from this company with this product lately.
        
             | tiffanyh wrote:
             | It sounds like you'd rather sacrifice Function over Form
             | ... in which case - the iPhone SE checks most of your
             | boxes.
             | 
             | Note: I don't disagree with what you're saying. But Apple
             | also creates multiple models for different users desires,
             | and it sounds like you're most closely aligned to the
             | iPhone SE target market (not the iPhone base or Pro).
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | I currently do actually use an iphone se 2. But honestly
               | its a worse device than the old se 1 in my drawer that I
               | used when the se2 was in the shop not too long ago. The
               | only issue was modern apps were not compatible with
               | whatever ios version it was on. Otherwise, it was
               | surprisingly faster. spotlight search was appreciably
               | faster, without any delay vs the se2 that just hangs for
               | about 2 seconds before returning any results. mobile web
               | felt great although the smaller screen would often be
               | reduced to a postage stamp of readable space after banner
               | and footer and other ads gobble up the rest of it. It
               | felt much better in the hand and in the pocket. Headphone
               | jack of course.
               | 
               | And what is worse about this se line is that I know it is
               | temporary. They won't be building them out of new old
               | stock iphone 8 parts forever. That will run dry like the
               | old iphone 5 supply lines the se1 used did, which forced
               | its obsolescence. Eventually I will be shunted into these
               | newer, heavier, wobbly bottomed iphones, due to forced
               | obsolescence in either the apps I use or the actual
               | carrier network protocols.
        
             | 4fterd4rk wrote:
             | Oh god are we really still going on about the fucking
             | headphone jack?
        
           | pzo wrote:
           | There is lots of things were competition is ahead of them or
           | things they could improve:
           | 
           | - 90W fast wired charging, 80W wireless charging - many
           | android phone have it
           | 
           | - reverse charging - so that in emergency when you forgot to
           | charge airpods and you already outside you could charge a
           | little bit enough for a run - again some androids have it
           | 
           | - stylus support - still would be nice to get apple pencil
           | for some signatures etc
           | 
           | - fingerprint reader either under display or on side button
           | like on ipad air - sometimes when phone is sitting on the
           | table it's easier to unlock with finger than pick it up and
           | point at your face then put it back (especially annoying for
           | iOS devs)
           | 
           | - irda led for controlling air con in hotel - they have
           | already IR blaster on front and maybe even on lidar that they
           | could potentially hack it similar like they hacked screen for
           | flash.
           | 
           | - temperature sensor and humidity sensor
           | 
           | - IR temperature sensor for checking your body temperature or
           | stuff you baking in the oven
           | 
           | - tiny thermal camera sensor for inspecting leaks in house
           | for the winter
           | 
           | - microsd support (yes can dream can I?)
           | 
           | - any improvements for lidar quality or truedepth
           | 
           | - another programmable button on the left side for lefties
           | 
           | - 250GB storage by default
           | 
           | - 12GB RAM
           | 
           | - bluetooth 5.4
           | 
           | - thread protocol support like HomePod
        
             | rconti wrote:
             | Sounds like USB-C iPhones have 'reverse charging' but not
             | wirelessly. Default storage is just a pricepoint thing,
             | IMO.
        
               | coolspot wrote:
               | The big LOL moment for me was when I connected my iPhone
               | to my MacBook and it started charging the laptop from the
               | phone.
        
             | Maximus9000 wrote:
             | I'd add "10x optical zoom"
        
             | mnkv wrote:
             | > IR temperature sensor for checking your body temperature
             | or stuff you baking in the oven
             | 
             | > tiny thermal camera sensor for inspecting leaks in house
             | for the winter
             | 
             | So just a thermometer gun? It costs like $20-30 on amazon
             | and I've never needed one other than in my home / kitchen.
             | Why in the world do you want a phone for this haha.
             | 
             | I do think I've found the perfect car for you:
             | https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpsons-car-gif-8120474
        
               | ValentineC wrote:
               | On that topic, I would have liked a new AirPods Pro to be
               | able to monitor my body temperature through my ears,
               | while I'm working out.
               | 
               | It would be nice to have constant monitoring against a
               | baseline as well, to alert people when a fever might be
               | breaking out.
        
               | pzo wrote:
               | If they are producing and selling it on amazon means
               | someone buying it even if you don't need it. Body
               | temperature check definitely would be handy. Those
               | sensors definitely don't cost $20-30. I had CC1350
               | SensorTag and it already had that for retail price also
               | around ~$35 (but altogether with 10 different sensors
               | inside and that bought 10 years ago).
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | They also sell smart outlets, back massagers, and garden
               | sprinklers on Amazon. That doesn't imply people would
               | find them handy in their phone.
               | 
               | I think it'd be an easier pitch in the watch though as
               | that's where they are already shoving most of the health
               | sensors (and have wrist temperature monitoring already).
        
             | ainiriand wrote:
             | They could also take a step towards a more conscious
             | engagement with the environment by allowing to replace
             | batteries or other parts. That would win them a very good
             | deal of press nowadays, even if it is not strictly tech-
             | related.
             | 
             | Looks like they are super-uber risk-averse and there is 0%
             | new ideas with these products.
        
             | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
             | > microsd support
             | 
             | Yes, this is the first thing I look for in a smartphone.
             | Maybe next year, Apple?
        
           | miramba wrote:
           | Some ideas: -change screen ratio, increase width against
           | height, like an iPad.
           | 
           | -Why are iPads and iPhones treated so differently? I want to
           | use a pen on the phone and make a phone call on the tablet.
           | 
           | -Double screen, not foldable, but two screens like an open
           | book. I could see a lot of useful applications like showing
           | lists on one screen, details on the other, or a good ereader.
           | In landscape, have a writing app on top and a touch keyboard
           | on the bottom screen.
           | 
           | -Slide the phone into a laptop-like shell and run desktop
           | apps with MacOS. It's the same processor the macs have, no?
           | 
           | -Likewise, attach to a monitor, keyboard and mouse and run
           | desktop apps.
           | 
           | Edit: Linebreaks.
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | I've never owned an Android but I'm extremely curious about
           | the Pixel Pro 9 Fold. That would really change how I use a
           | phone in my day to day life. Presumably, Apple will get
           | around to doing it too at some point.
        
             | xelfer wrote:
             | I got it last week and it's great. My main concerns were
             | the older (pixel 7 generation) camera and the battery life.
             | Both have exceeded my expectations, the massive screen is
             | great for browsing and someone even got debian on there (ht
             | tps://old.reddit.com/r/PixelFold/comments/1fcn4du/fullblow.
             | ..), and it's fairly thin and light even with a case on.
        
       | jsheard wrote:
       | The non-Pro models are _still_ only 60hz? C 'mon man, high
       | refresh rate is hardly a luxury feature anymore. At least give
       | them 90hz and reserve 120hz for the Pro models.
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Well, it is hardly a necessity too.
        
           | kmac_ wrote:
           | $150 phones have better refresh rates. Once you get used to
           | the better rates, it will spoil any scrolling on 60 Hz
           | screens.
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | This is great. Now people can have superior scrolling
             | experience at much lower price than iPhone.
        
               | kmac_ wrote:
               | Since I scroll quite a lot, I prefer to have a better
               | experience with this very basic and common activity.
               | Apple claims to provide the best experience, while it
               | clearly does not.
        
             | t0bia_s wrote:
             | I prefer to have two days battery of heavy used phone than
             | few hours of smooth scrolling.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | > Once you get used to the better rates
             | 
             | I suspect everyone who upgrades from a $150 120Hz phone to
             | a new iPhone will be thrilled.
        
               | kobalsky wrote:
               | With that take Apple would still putting 32gb on the base
               | models.
        
             | raydev wrote:
             | At the cost of worse UX in every other dimension, sure.
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | The vast majority of people cannot even see a difference.
        
             | consteval wrote:
             | Literally anyone picked off the street will notice jumping
             | from 60hz to 120hz after maybe, I don't know, 2 seconds of
             | swiping around.
             | 
             | You have it backwards. Nobody is pro gaming on an iPhone.
             | That high refresh rate doesn't have a real, practical
             | purpose. It just looks really really good and immediately
             | grabs your eye - it's candy.
        
               | dbbk wrote:
               | They can't notice motion smoothing either.
        
             | mchicken wrote:
             | Yeah, like with 24 Hz right.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | PWM probably too? I keep waiting for the return of sweet smooth
         | LCD but I guess my 11 is the last model...
        
           | wrcwill wrote:
           | yup, ill keep using the 11/se until they stop using pwm for
           | their oled screens (most oled tvs can dc dimming just fine)
        
           | vitaflo wrote:
           | PWM absolutely kills all iPhone purchases for me. It's why
           | I'm still using an SE.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | Genuine question: what are you doing on a phone that you need
         | 120hz?
        
           | dilap wrote:
           | Scrolling (much nicer/smoother feeling 120hz).
        
           | _ph_ wrote:
           | Scrolling is quite much more plesant at 120 Hz.
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | Does it make a difference though? I don't even know what the
         | refresh rate of my phone is.
        
         | veber-alex wrote:
         | 60Hz is the new 8GB
        
       | ashconnor wrote:
       | Shocked they are still using 128GB as the starting storage size.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I guess they have more information about usage patterns than we
         | do. Anecdotally, I have a 256GB iPhone, and I use it
         | consistently for a whole variety of things, and my usage is
         | just under 94GB. I'd bet that my 'normal' family members use a
         | good bit less than that.
        
           | metaltyphoon wrote:
           | Ahh you need is kids to see that storage be laughable.
        
             | eitally wrote:
             | I'm going to downvote you because I don't know what you're
             | talking about. My kids have 128GB phones and don't have any
             | issues at all. They're also on our family plan with Google
             | One for shared storage and we're still -- as a family of
             | five where I personally have contributed about 100,000
             | photos (and some videos) over the past 15 years -- only at
             | 1.2TB of consumed storage.
             | 
             | What are your kids doing that consumes so much local
             | storage?
        
               | sturza wrote:
               | Both of you generalized from anecdotes.
        
               | supportengineer wrote:
               | Here is a data point. We went on a one-week family
               | vacation, my teens created a shared album which contains
               | 3,000 photos and 100 videos.
        
               | kevinsync wrote:
               | Yep. I'm in my early 40's, recently self-hosted Immich,
               | imported the archive of photos and videos my wife and I
               | have created since 2000, and we're sitting at 216,000
               | photos, 5000 videos, 650gb+ of data. 2000-2011ish was
               | point-and-shoot digital + DSLR, then 2012-2024 has been
               | the output of TWO CELL PHONES.
               | 
               | We aren't photographers, we just goof around, and our
               | almost-teenaged son doesn't factor into those numbers.
               | 
               | The sheer volume of data created is just .. it's nuts.
               | And there's another 300gb of data generated from all the
               | metadata, sidecar, smart search, face detection! Imagine
               | all that plus much more that Apple Intelligence
               | generates.
               | 
               | Long gone are the days of just putting JPGs into a
               | folder!
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | But since it's a shared album, most of that lives in the
               | cloud and not locally cached.
               | 
               | If I was betting, most people likely pay for a cloud
               | storage solution and don't use the majority of their
               | device storage.
        
               | rashkov wrote:
               | They do cute things that I want to take a video or photo
               | of and never delete from my phone
        
           | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
           | I'm at 67/256GB, I don't know why I even went with 256GB
        
           | cruano wrote:
           | I got the 512GB model and have been using it without any
           | regard for storage for a couple of years. All my music is
           | downloaded locally in lossless formats. I keep full-res
           | versions of all my vacation pictures/videos and I also
           | download a ton of crap, from videogames to movies.
           | 
           | I'm at 285GB right now.
           | 
           | The breakdown is 81GB for music, 56GB for pictures, ~40GB of
           | download content on TV/Youtube/Audible and ~23GB of games.
           | 
           | I could _easily_ cut down on that. There's games I haven't
           | played in a while, movies I've already watched, or even music
           | I don't really listen to frequently enough to have it
           | downloaded.
           | 
           | Safe to say I'll go for 256GB next time
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | I'm at 166 GB out of 256 GB. Every time I upgrade my iPhone
           | (average every 5 years), I get the most storage available
           | (after learning my lesson on the iPhone 4) and it ends up
           | being 4x bigger than before.
           | 
           | iPod touch (32GB), if you ignore this
           | 
           | iPhone 4 (16GB), 2010
           | 
           | iPhone 6 (64GB), 2014
           | 
           | iPhone SE 2nd gen (256GB), 2020
           | 
           | iPhone 16 (1 TB)?, 2024
           | 
           | Every time, I think "that's probably way more than I'll
           | need", but I guess in 6 years or so I'll upgrade to the 4 TB
           | model. Or wait for next year's model, maybe another SE will
           | come out...
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | I wonder if storage needs have a very bimodal distribution.
           | 
           | Both my parents barely use the 64GB on their phone. The one
           | that does photography, probably can't store all their photos
           | on any iPhone, because it measures in the multi-TB.
           | 
           | I usually overbuy storage but after three years, I'm removing
           | things like music and podcasts because it's completely full.
        
             | schmidtleonard wrote:
             | > bimodal
             | 
             | Those who go heavy on the video vs those who don't.
        
         | dlachausse wrote:
         | With iCloud and music streaming 128GB is enough for a lot of
         | people. I know I still have quite a bit of room left on my
         | 128GB iPhone 12, even with taking tons of photos and videos.
        
         | hintymad wrote:
         | For people who want 256GB, they might as well just buy iphone
         | pro max. It will be just $100 more compared to iphone pro.
        
           | el_benhameen wrote:
           | I still prefer the smaller form factor. Easier one-handed
           | use, and less bulk in my pocket. I wasn't going to upgrade
           | this cycle anyway, but the larger size of both pro models has
           | removed any inkling of the "well maaaaaybe" feeling that I
           | usually get.
        
         | veber-alex wrote:
         | Everything is in the cloud now.
         | 
         | 128GB is plenty for me.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Why is that shocking? Delivering a base model with minimal
         | specs and upcharging for the specs that power-users need is
         | Apple's standard way of doing business. If you want to store
         | more, you pay more, either by buying more expensive models, or
         | by subscribing to iCloud.
         | 
         | This pricing strategy is intentional in the way it is limiting
         | to encourage people to buy more expensive models.
         | 
         | They don't offer 128gb as the base tier because they think it
         | will meet everyone's needs. They offer that as the base tier
         | because they think it _won 't_ meet everyone's needs. An ideal
         | pricing strategy captures as many sales as possible while also
         | upcharging as many people as possible who would be willing to
         | pay more.
        
         | trustno2 wrote:
         | They can sell more iCloud subscriptions that way
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | Fair - I'm sure it costs pennies to double the capacity.
         | 
         | But also I just checked and I have 128GB and its fine for me.
        
       | pzo wrote:
       | Amazingly boring event - the last few years were boring as well
       | but each year they don't disappoint to reach to the lower bottom.
        
       | souvlakee wrote:
       | It was super boring.
        
       | thecryptopapi wrote:
       | "By far the best iPhone yet" "The thinnest display ever" "more
       | scratch resistant" said no Apple CEO ever
        
       | uladzislau wrote:
       | Absolutely underwhelming announcement, I will hold for the next
       | year
        
       | tropicalfruit wrote:
       | every year the events get longer, the websites get bigger and
       | more verbose and yet the products change less and less.
       | 
       | is there a word for this...marketing inflation in lieu of
       | innovation.
       | 
       | apple used to be a tech company supported by marketing. now its a
       | marketing company supported by tech.
        
         | talldayo wrote:
         | Stagnation
        
       | souvlakee wrote:
       | The more I watch, the sadder I get. It seems they've gone in the
       | wrong direction. They have nothing to offer regular phone users,
       | so they're targeting "creative professionals" with fancy
       | features.
        
         | jamestimmins wrote:
         | That's just for the pro version of the phone though.
         | 
         | I plan to get a regular 16, for the reasons you mention. What
         | regular features would you want to see?
        
         | souvlakee wrote:
         | Also, my take on the new cinematic mode is that they should
         | invest in a better camera if they can afford such fireworks.
        
         | vundercind wrote:
         | Lots of people have creative hobbies that involve their phone
         | in some capacity--music and photography are common--and
         | basically everyone takes family photos and videos with them, so
         | new photo capabilities are always welcome even for non-hobbyist
         | users. Personally, I think it's awesome that my kids could
         | borrow my phone and make their backyard movies a hell of a lot
         | more "cinematic" than mine on the family camcorder ever could
         | have been, even if I'd had some idea of what I was doing.
         | 
         | Several of the "AI" features looked like the kind of thing any
         | phone will feel incomplete without as soon as I use them the
         | first time, for normal-user use cases.
         | 
         | Plus, you're on HN: your complaint about iPhones is supposed to
         | be that they're just "mindless consumption devices" for sheeple
         | who want to drool at YouTube shorts, wildly worse for any
         | conceivable creative or practical, serious endeavor than Linux
         | phones or a Thinkpad, because you can't get a root shell.
         | You've gone entirely the wrong direction for this site, with
         | your post :-)
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | > Several of the "AI" features looked like the kind of thing
           | any phone will feel incomplete without as soon as I use them
           | the first time, for normal-user use cases.
           | 
           | We must live on different planets. Are you really going to
           | send your friends and family AI-generated emojis, or rewrite
           | your texts to them with Apple Intelligence? I sure know they
           | won't.
        
             | vundercind wrote:
             | No, I don't even use the "stickers" and shit they have now,
             | but the enhanced photo and moment-in-video natural language
             | search are gonna make any OS without that built in feel
             | broken when I get used to that and try to use it anywhere
             | that doesn't have it, I bet. Same as their existing
             | transparent image OCR has left me going "wtf?" when I
             | forgot I wasn't on an Apple OS and tried to use it. The AI-
             | assistant stuff via camera for quick searches and item
             | identification look great, too. If it's good enough it'll
             | Sherlock multiple existing apps, all in one.
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | Once you start making silly stickers from photos, they
               | are surprisingly fun. I have a bunch of my dogs in poses
               | that can fit on and around the message bubbles.
        
           | duped wrote:
           | I do a bit of creative audio work and consider my iPhone next
           | to useless. iPads are useful in some contexts.
           | 
           | I've returned to the stone ages of digital tuners and
           | metronomes for practice(1), and any recordings I make use a
           | laptop. Not that there are _good_ options for quick and dirty
           | recordings, just that they 're better than using a phone.
           | 
           | If I were making podcasts or something like that the phone
           | would be a lot more useful, but for music, not so much.
           | 
           | (1) there was awhile back that my phone was integral to
           | practicing music but now I can't use it at all, because every
           | decent metronome/tuner app is trash.
        
             | wilsonnb3 wrote:
             | For an increasing amount of people, "making music" is
             | recording a tiktok of themselves singing or playing a
             | guitar or recording themselves rapping directly into the
             | phone mic for soundcloud.
             | 
             | Not trying to judge what counts as making music - just
             | saying that the times are changing a bit and the GP
             | probably wasn't referring to traditional DAW usage and
             | stuff like that.
        
         | sk11001 wrote:
         | We're at a point where regular users already have everything
         | they need, from any model in the past few years.
        
           | souvlakee wrote:
           | Before the iPhone, we thought we already had everything we
           | needed.
        
             | gnatolf wrote:
             | Nah, but phones are commodities by now.
        
             | rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote:
             | Yes but marginal utility curves are a thing.
        
             | theF00l wrote:
             | Some of us may still feel we had everything we needed
             | before the iPhone!
        
             | mulderc wrote:
             | No, no we didn't. Before the iPhone we wanted a device that
             | would be something like a Palm pilot, an iPod, a cell
             | phone, a camera, and give us mobile internet, but it wasn't
             | clear how to do that in a good way. Blackberry was getting
             | there, Pocket PC was interesting, and there were various
             | other mobile devices that had some of the pieces. It wasn't
             | until the iPhone we saw how to put that all together
             | properly.
        
               | gessha wrote:
               | I think that's more of a hindsight than a concrete wish
               | people had.
               | 
               | Audio player, cell phone and camera were already
               | implemented by "dumbphone" Nokias. I think adding mobile
               | internet was a mistake. I use it all the time but it
               | doesn't add much to my life. It doesn't make me more
               | productive but it adds another consumption device.
        
               | mulderc wrote:
               | I know I wanted mobile internet and was very frustrated
               | with things like WAP at the time. I know that having
               | mobile internet made me more productive. Sure some phones
               | could play music but it was nothing like a dedicated
               | music device, the software and storage were just awful,
               | so you had to have two devices when it was obvious that
               | it should be just one. Something like the iPhone was
               | pretty obviously being desired at the time, we just
               | didn't see how to do it and thought it would be something
               | more like what blackberry and Microsoft were doing.
        
               | massysett wrote:
               | Years ago I thought mobile Internet didn't add anything
               | to my life. I bought a smartphone but was skeptical.
               | 
               | Then one day I was at the airport waiting in a long
               | check-in line. I got out my Motorola Droid, dug though my
               | email, checked in to the flight, and got out of the line.
               | 
               | After that I was convinced of the value of it, and I'm
               | reminded every time I'm standing on the street, waiting
               | for an Uber rather than looking around for a cab.
        
               | vundercind wrote:
               | I was a long-time holdout on getting a smartphone at all,
               | then on really embracing it. Now I gotta admit, it's the
               | only computing device I use that really delivers ROI for
               | my everyday life (aside from my work computer, for...
               | work, but that's not mine). All the rest could vanish and
               | it'd mostly just give me fewer ways to frustratingly
               | waste my time. Phone dies, and I gotta replace it ASAP.
               | Everything important happens on there. A compact sensor
               | package glued to good touchscreen, with an Internet
               | connection, is just too useful.
        
               | ruszki wrote:
               | I have mobile internet since 2001. Those dumbphones had
               | access to the full internet, not just WAP.
               | 
               | Mobile internet was not a mistake, we just started to use
               | it wrongly. It's your choice to not use it to browse
               | internet aimlessly. It's your choice to make yourself
               | available all the time. You can definitely use it how I
               | did for more than a decade before everybody realized what
               | being always online means. It definitely improved my
               | productivity before that, but it's true that the added
               | benefit is about flat in the past decade.
        
               | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
               | I don't think it's that we use it wrong exactly. I'm not
               | trying to judge anyone who spends hours of time on
               | Instagram sending photos or scrolling X.
               | 
               | I 100% agree that if I was doing those things, they would
               | be wrong for me so I avoid doing them.
               | 
               | I don't like people who say "I don't like when I do this
               | thing, so, this thing should not be available for people
               | to do!"
               | 
               | I equally don't like people who say "I don't like when
               | other people do this thing, so, this thing should not be
               | available for people to do!"
               | 
               | I know that social media is designed to be addictive.
               | This is why I'm mostly absent from it for most of my
               | life.
               | 
               | If you use and enjoy social media and it brings joy to
               | your life, great, have fun. It wasn't doing that for me
               | (or more directly, I realized very early on it was going
               | down a bad path) so I cut it out.
               | 
               | If you're lamenting social media and bothered by how much
               | time you spend on it, or how it negatively impacts your
               | life, or whatever: I am definitely going to advocate to
               | you that you do simply have the option to turn it off.
               | Life will move on!
               | 
               | You can also have a smart phone and not feel the need to
               | immediately respond to every text message, nor, click
               | every notification. You can even choose to not pick up
               | phone calls if you want.
               | 
               | In the past decade while the reality of mobile
               | connectivity hasn't changed much, the quality and
               | ubiquity of it has improved dramatically.
               | 
               | 10 years ago I would have agreed that in most places it
               | was possible to get some form of internet connectivity,
               | today, it's deeply unusual to travel anywhere in the USA
               | and not get >100Mbit on LTE with "good enough" latency.
        
               | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
               | It's absolutely a wish I had, and I spent a lot of time
               | and money trying to make it real!
               | 
               | There's a huge difference between an audio player and
               | having spotify (or apple music, or whatever you prefer)
               | where you can play effectively any song you want at
               | effectively any time.
               | 
               | There's a huge difference between having a camera and
               | something which can record 4k video or take photos which
               | surpass any digital camera we had in the early 2000s and
               | even today surpasses virtually any camera in the price
               | range of the whole phone. You would need something like a
               | Leica fixed lens camera or a mirrorless DSLR with
               | multiple lenses at several times the cost of a smartphone
               | to equal the photo and video capabilities. This also
               | ignores the fact that I can snap these amazing pics or
               | videos and send them to a friend instantly.
        
             | PhunkyPhil wrote:
             | Vision Pro, I think, is their first generation attempt at
             | tackling this.
        
           | Maximus9000 wrote:
           | As a regular user, I'd still like 10x optical zoom
        
           | rollcat wrote:
           | > We're at a point where regular users already have
           | everything they need [...]
           | 
           | We still don't have:
           | 
           | - an iPhone SE1-sized device
           | 
           | - USB-C on a "medium" (iPhone Mini)-sized device
           | 
           | - Touch ID or non-OLED screen on a non-budget device
           | 
           | - 3.5mm headphone jack (even after they backtracked on
           | removing most ports from Macbooks)
           | 
           | Yeah basically can I just have a 2016 with an updated SoC
           | please.
        
             | mirsadm wrote:
             | You and two other people want that. Every time they've
             | released small phones they've not sold well. It's a small
             | but extremely vocal community of people that constantly ask
             | for this stuff.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | Many women I know would be interested in a small phone
               | (in part because for some reason clothes makers
               | collectively decided that women should not have big
               | pockets, or any at all, and in part because of smaller
               | hands on average).
               | 
               | It's probably not all women, maybe not most, but I can't
               | believe there's not an important market, it seems like a
               | common enough situation.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | The corollary to women's clothes have no pocket is that
               | women have purses, which are often large enough to hold a
               | bigger phone.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | It's still millions of people who buy an iphone mini, but
               | that's basically a rounding error when they're selling
               | hundreds of millions per year, 3-5% from a quick google.
        
             | iknowstuff wrote:
             | None of those are happening. Small phones don't sell.
        
               | rollcat wrote:
               | Accessibility also doesn't "sell". Apple used to care
               | about making their products actually accessible. They
               | already have all the money. What's the real excuse? Do
               | they just not care?
        
             | unethical_ban wrote:
             | What is the benefit of a non-OLED screen, and how niche is
             | that ask? I'm assuming the benefit is "no burn-in" but is
             | the risk of burn-in going to affect people in a 5 year
             | timespan?
             | 
             | And I think the 3.5mm ship has sailed, right behind the
             | "persistent notification LED" ship. Fsck me if I can
             | understand how not a single manufacturer has figured out
             | that a bright, persistent, multi-color LED/OLED
             | notification is a desirable zero-hardware-cost feature.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | Re: the notification led, is it because of the wish that
               | the screen should take the whole surface? Reviews
               | complain about the "lost" space.
               | 
               | Personally I value the notification led more, and don't
               | mind some borders.
        
               | rollcat wrote:
               | > What is the benefit of a non-OLED screen [...]?
               | 
               | Accessibility. https://rubenerd.com/the-iphone-14/
        
               | dmitrygr wrote:
               | > how not a single manufacturer has
               | 
               | > figured out that a bright, persistent,
               | 
               | > multi-color LED/OLED notification is
               | 
               | > a desirable zero-hardware-cost feature.
               | 
               | a LED has nonzero cost. The case having a hole for it
               | also has a cost, as does engineering the hole not to be a
               | weak point. It may not be hard or expensive, but nonzero
               | nonetheless.
        
             | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
             | Why do you want a non-OLED screen?
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | I have everything I need with a 5s. The only thing making me
           | ponder updates is shit like "hi the new T-mobile app requires
           | a newer version of iOS than is available for your phone". Web
           | still works though.
        
         | lsllc wrote:
         | Isn't that sort of the point though? I'm a regular phone user,
         | but boy when I was on vacation this year, my iPhone took some
         | fabulous pictures with stunning colors. I'm sure way better
         | than I would with a DSLR (given I have no experience with a
         | DSLR and/or whatever post-processing/editing suites I'd need to
         | go with it).
         | 
         | I totally buy into the "best camera you have is the one in your
         | pocket" concept -- especially if that camera takes amazing
         | photos without me needing to know how.
         | 
         | I do agree on the other features (or lack thereof), in general
         | I only upgrade my iPhone for two reasons:                 1.
         | Newer/better camara       2. Old iPhone is getting long in the
         | tooth (i.e. battery degradation)
         | 
         | I think the longest I went was maybe 3 years before the battery
         | wouldn't really make it through the day.
         | 
         | I'll take a look at this one and if the camera is compelling
         | enough, maybe upgrade (the 5x optical zoom might just do that
         | for me).
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | The archetype of a smartphone is essentially mature at this
         | point and has been for a while.
         | 
         | Innovations are either going to be aimed at improving niche
         | uses, gradual enhancements on stats like
         | power/cpu/display/photo-quality, or accommodating fashion
         | trends like overall size or whether it's foldable.
         | 
         | The most original opportunity lately is generative AI
         | integration and that's exactly what they put into focus for
         | 2024.
        
         | throwaway918299 wrote:
         | As one of those users I'm still rocking my iPhone 11 and am
         | perfectly content sticking with it The phone works. Telegram
         | and Whatsapp works. Slack works. Safari still runs great on the
         | web on the very few websites I use or browse. The longer I can
         | use this without feeling "forced" to upgrade, the happier I'll
         | be.
         | 
         | What apple offers me is peace of mind and stability. That's all
         | I want from a phone.
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | If I had hadn't smashed my 11 Pro I'd still be using it. It
           | feels wafer thin in comparison to the chunky 15 Pro I
           | replaced it with :/
        
           | mrzool wrote:
           | > What apple offers me is peace of mind and stability.
           | 
           | They'll literally make your beloved iPhone 11 obsolete in a
           | year or so, deliberately.
        
             | rlpb wrote:
             | Don't Apple have a better track record for longevity of
             | support compared to their competitors?
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | Not all competitors. GNU/Linux phones will have lifetime
               | updates (since they run mainline Linux).
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | Good updates to the video recording, event was okay...kinda
       | boring. Airpods Max got no updates just color, why even mention
       | them?
        
         | jpalomaki wrote:
         | They got USB-C
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | USB-C ?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | I was immensely disappointed for the AirPods Max to be stuck
         | with the H1 when even the standard AirPods got the H2.
        
       | cube2222 wrote:
       | I was planning to upgrade this year, and probably still will, but
       | honestly, the differences between the base model and pro model
       | this year are fairly limited.
       | 
       | ProMotion, Always-on display, a bunch more resistant to fall
       | damage, and a camera that is better, but doesn't look like a lot.
       | 
       | I'm a bit worried about the Apple Intelligence features, as
       | they've been very prominent on WWDC, but were fairly toned-down
       | today. Not much of it was shown, and they're delaying their
       | arrival (notification summaries look great though, as a "little
       | thing that matters").
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | I can't live without the pro motion display now. I'm on a 13
         | right now so this will be a big upgrade for me personally.
        
           | cube2222 wrote:
           | Yeah I'm on a 13 Pro. It's enough to upgrade, but it doesn't
           | blow you off your feet. The colors are also arguably worse
           | than the 13 Pro lineup.
        
             | Aaargh20318 wrote:
             | I'm going to miss the blue on my 13 pro. I'm probably going
             | for the 'desert titanium' as that at least has some color.
             | Such a shame that they reserve the bolder colors for the
             | non-pro line.
        
           | manmal wrote:
           | I'm on a 13 Pro right now, and an iOS developer, so should
           | have a reason to upgrade now. But the iffy situation with
           | Apple intelligence in the EU makes me hesitate.
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | I think it is a good thing to delay arrival so they can get it
         | right. I almost think playing it up at WWDC was intentional so
         | that developers would care more about it.
        
         | tekacs wrote:
         | I've had notification summaries turned on for at least a few
         | weeks as part of the iOS 18 Beta and I can sadly report that
         | they seem to be very very low quality.
         | 
         | On occasion they'll squash down something that is better read
         | tersely, but I've overwhelmingly found them to make the content
         | worse than simply reading the original text.
         | 
         | I was really hopeful about them going in, but it seems like it
         | might need an iteration or two more.
        
           | mason55 wrote:
           | I think that there are just very few notifications where a
           | summary is the thing I want. Most of them I either don't care
           | about at all or I want to see the actual text. Either it's
           | important and the details matter or it's, like, a text from
           | my wife and I want to read it in her voice and not a summary.
           | 
           | The fun of my family group chat is reading the messages from
           | everyone.
        
         | cmcaleer wrote:
         | Presumably the AI features getting widely derided at WWDC
         | influenced the script. I'm totally fine with generative AI, but
         | I cringed when I saw the images they generated for the demo at
         | WWDC. Just awful stuff.
        
       | pistolpeteDK wrote:
       | Interesting to see how they're marketing increasingly minor
       | improvements as major breakthroughs. 16 Pro: Better camera, more
       | zoom, dedicated camera button... isn't that it? WiFi 7, faster
       | ray tracing, USB-C/USB 3? Hard to imagine many people really need
       | that.
       | 
       | Have we witnessed peak Apple?
       | 
       | Apple Watch: minimal updates. AirPods Max: new color. AirPods:
       | some minor tweaks.
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | ehhhh, maybe. they used to do small updates (other than CPU)
         | and call it the "S" update; now they seem to keep increasing
         | the number but doing similar small updates?
        
         | reducesuffering wrote:
         | I'm not sure what more you'd expect after the 14 barely had
         | anything on the 13. The stagnation happened 3 years ago.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | And the things they decided to not do are baffling, too. The
         | AirPods Max doesn't even have the H2 chip and attendant
         | features, for example.
        
         | MangoCoffee wrote:
         | Smartphone has reached its peak. What's left to innovate? maybe
         | Huawei's triple-fold phone(?)
        
           | ilikeatari wrote:
           | I think there is still some room. For me screen technology
           | would be an innovation. Envision a screen that is hybrid
           | between eink and current OLED. Or Siri that is useful (I
           | think thats what they are working on). Or envision other
           | inputs other than your thumbs :-) Maybe ironed out version of
           | what they developed for Apple Vision Pro in terms of eye
           | tracking or some other inputs. So many ideas!!!
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | > What's left to innovate?
           | 
           | How about running a normal OS without artificial
           | restrictions, so that you could completely replace your
           | laptop/desktop?
        
           | rqtwteye wrote:
           | The same happened with laptops a long time ago. They
           | basically do everything that's needed.
           | 
           | But in general I agree that the innovation output of Apple is
           | really low compared to their size. But that seems to be the
           | case for most of these mega trillion dollar companies. The
           | bigger, the more conservative they get. But they are very
           | good at making profits so it's all good as far as the CEO's
           | bonus goes.
        
         | nabaraz wrote:
         | What about any other things like Word, Operating System, Cars?
         | Are they not all doing smaller improvements year after year.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | For the phone we've settled on a current form factor of a slab
         | of aluminum and glass. All changes are at the margins. A little
         | thinner, a little lighter, a little better X.
         | 
         | Until some other form factor takes off, this is where we are.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | I really don't know what people expect. That Apple won't market
         | a product? That there will be a fivefold increase in
         | performance each year?
        
         | phatfish wrote:
         | It's like Call of Duty, you're not supposed to buy one each
         | year and be amazed. Just wait two or three years and THEN you
         | get a marginal improvement that means you can justify the
         | purchase to yourself.
         | 
         | The yearly thing is to scam superfans.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | And they still can't figure out how to make the battery
         | replaceable even though they claim to care so much for the
         | environment.
        
           | ReptileMan wrote:
           | I want replicable battery just to be sure that my phone is
           | turned off when it says it is turned off.
        
           | PhunkyPhil wrote:
           | Why would a user-replaceable battery be better for the
           | environment? Do you think that consumers are able to recycle
           | hard-to-recycle lithium components like that _correctly_?
           | Apple already offers battery replacements (comparatively)
           | cheaply.
           | 
           | Beyond that there's huge issues with it such as third party
           | batteries tainting the overall quality of the phone, having
           | an entirely removable back plate would kill their water/dust
           | resistance rating, it looking bad (Yes this is important to
           | Apple) etc, god-knows-what other issues arise changing the
           | internal structure of their components that drastically.
           | 
           | Don't assume they can't figure out an engineering problem
           | because you're upset that phones aren't the same as they were
           | 20 years ago.
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | I don't see much to upgrade to but, if I didn't get a iPhone 15
       | Pro I would have probably gotten this. The new camera button is
       | interesting and the gestures are nice.
       | 
       | Interesting to see all the rumors of a iPhone Slim / Air be
       | nothing and I almost thought that they would do it on the Pro
       | lineup.
        
         | skygazer wrote:
         | The slim rumors are for the iPhone 17 line when they drop the
         | Plus from the lineup. The rumors spanning two generations ahead
         | is confusing.
        
           | gamepsys wrote:
           | The rumors of the thinner iPhone made me disappointed when
           | this wasn't thinner.
        
         | mgrandl wrote:
         | The slim / air rumors were always for the iPhone 17 lineup.
        
           | justin66 wrote:
           | No.
           | 
           | https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/apple-could-
           | deliver-...
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | So did they just give up on Blood-Oxygen sensing on the Watch?
       | Thought it might be a good time to update my Watch 6 (black
       | titanium) to a 10, since they brought back the black titanium,
       | but they just have no answer for the blood-oxygen lawsuit?
        
         | ayhanfuat wrote:
         | Maybe they are just not reporting it. Sleep apnea detection is
         | probably using blood oxygen levels.
        
           | laweijfmvo wrote:
           | I checked the "Compare" page and it confirms no blood oxygen
           | on Series 10 and Ultra 2. It's basically the one thing the 6
           | does better.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | It's pretty unsexy for Apple to say they're using their sound
           | recognition tech to listen for snoring.
        
           | flutas wrote:
           | As the other commenter said it does seem like Apple might
           | have either straight up removed it or is disabling it in
           | software entirely for now.
           | 
           | Comparison page lists the "Blood Oxygen app" for the S6
           | through S8, but S9 and S10 both just have "-" for that
           | comparison section like the S5 has.
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/watch/compare/?modelList=watch-
           | series-...
           | 
           | EDIT: Another difference between them is the Vitals App
           | description removing the blood oxygen reference.
           | 
           | S10: "Vitals app featuring heart rate, respiratory rate,
           | wrist temperature, and sleep duration"
           | 
           | S08: "Vitals app featuring heart rate, respiratory rate,
           | wrist temperature, blood oxygen, and sleep duration"
        
             | dc3k wrote:
             | it is likely that they are disabling it in software as it
             | is only missing on the product page for the usa
        
               | flutas wrote:
               | Good call-out!
        
               | ValentineC wrote:
               | Here's a non-US comparison link, for anyone interested:
               | 
               | https://www.apple.com/sg/watch/compare/?modelList=watch-
               | seri...
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | Patent issue, right?
             | 
             | https://www.patentlyapple.com/2024/07/while-apple-has-
             | update...
        
           | skygazer wrote:
           | It was using the accelerometer to detect breaths, or absence,
           | and uses a month's worth of data, so not using O2 at all.
        
         | _ph_ wrote:
         | Wow, if they removed the blood oxygen measurement, I will keep
         | my S7 Apple watch. I had planned an upgrade.
        
           | ninininino wrote:
           | Removed for US purchasers. Fine elsewhere.
        
             | _ph_ wrote:
             | The German website doesn't list it either, but lets hope
             | that is just an issue with the web site.
             | 
             | Edit: if you go to the comparison page, it lists the blood
             | oxygene app for the 10 and the Ultra 2, so great :)
        
         | billfor wrote:
         | The Samsung Galaxy Watch series still supports it, as well as
         | blood pressure and sleep apnea (though you may have to hack it
         | slightly to unlock those features in the US).
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | It's been really crappy the entire time it existed, so it's not
         | a big loss. I have my watch on quite snugly (but not too
         | tight), and fairly high on my wrist, and the stupid thing only
         | takes maybe 3-5 measurements per DAY. Also, it cannot take
         | measurements while exercising, or even moving.
        
         | sunnybeetroot wrote:
         | I'm on the 9 and have blood oxygen sensor, are they removing it
         | in the 10?
        
         | raydev wrote:
         | They didn't "give up", they were sued and had to remove it (at
         | least in the US). This is the most recent update I could find:
         | https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/5/24122407/apple-watch-masim...
        
         | vault_ wrote:
         | Probably a result of the patent dispute over the feature:
         | https://apnews.com/article/apple-watch-patent-dispute-sales-...
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Patent issue, it is blocked in the USA, IIRC.
         | 
         | Here's one thing I saw about it:
         | 
         | https://www.patentlyapple.com/2024/07/while-apple-has-update...
        
         | cmcaleer wrote:
         | Anecdotally I found it worthless anyway. I tried a variety of
         | straps, tightness, positions, but I think the freckles on my
         | white skin just confused it. Finger monitors consistently have
         | it at 98%+. Apple Watch: "Your Blood Oxygen content is
         | 85-100%". Thank you Apple, very cool.
         | 
         | No real pattern to the large outliers, they'd happen at all
         | times of the day, even with my girlfriend's watch that I asked
         | for a lend of.
        
       | jadbox wrote:
       | No additional RAM? So 16 Pro is still using only 8gb? I was
       | hoping to be able to run my own LLMs on device, but unless you're
       | using micro sized models, it'll be practically impossible (or too
       | slow for casual use).
        
       | dblitt wrote:
       | Notably, only the pro models support USB 3. The base 16/16 plus
       | are still on USB 2. This hasn't changed from the 15 lineup when
       | they switched to USB-C.
        
         | unsnap_biceps wrote:
         | what do you use that usb 3 speeds matter? The only thing ever
         | plugged into my phones port is a charger.
        
           | baq wrote:
           | Same thing you use prores log video for.
        
             | dbbk wrote:
             | How curious that they would save it for... the pro model,
             | then
        
           | aucisson_masque wrote:
           | I have a bad wired internet connection and use my phone to
           | download anything over 1gb. takes 2 minutes instead of 2
           | hours.
           | 
           | also use it as a portable usb stick. when you are transfering
           | stuff over 10gb, usb 3 is very very usefull.
        
             | Aaargh20318 wrote:
             | Wouldn't it be easier to simply fix your ethernet wiring
             | (or just use wifi) than to sneakernet large files using
             | your phone?
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | if they can only get eg DSL at their location, how would
               | they fix that?
        
           | _ph_ wrote:
           | They said that the iPhone can record video directly to
           | external storage, so you would need the faster USB speed for
           | that. Quite a nice feature for productions which use the
           | iPhone for professional video.
        
       | mirchiseth wrote:
       | It will be interesting to see how users will use the new
       | dedicated camera touch control. Other phonemakers have tried it
       | in the past (Sony Xperia comes to mind) but capacitative is
       | probably the first. Also how developers will adopt for their
       | apps. It is a small change but definitely differentiating for
       | Apple at least for now.
        
       | sk11001 wrote:
       | There's definitely a feeling that the Pro models are the actual
       | model and the non-Pro is a bit closer to the old C/SE models. It
       | didn't feel that way a few releases ago.
       | 
       | I do love the colors on the regular models though!
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | Do we know what's the RAM in those phones?
        
         | StayTrue wrote:
         | Looks like 8GB.
        
       | nabaraz wrote:
       | I remember people lining up outside apple stores on the pre-order
       | day. What has happened now? Have we seen the peak of smartphones
       | until something new comes along and spur a new super-cycle?
        
         | nunez wrote:
         | Online ordering and Apple scaling production to meet demand.
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | i mean have you tried shipping familiar daily use hardware for
         | 20 years? why the cynicism. this thing needs to be dependable,
         | reliable. not introduce new fashion trend every year.
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Upgrades in mature markets are less exciting than in new
         | markets. See: how exciting the 2024 Corolla is compared to the
         | 2023.
        
           | gamepsys wrote:
           | I get excited when Toyota does a major model does a refresh.
           | The Corolla is likely the #1 selling car model globally, so
           | it has a major impact whenever they change something.
        
         | em500 wrote:
         | Well I still remember people lining up outside of computer
         | stores to buy Windows 95. Some people line up about pretty
         | random things.
        
           | cmcaleer wrote:
           | As a trend in general it feels pretty dead, at least in tech
           | and gaming.
        
         | raydev wrote:
         | Apple has had a solid online experience the last 5 or so years.
         | No need for lineups.
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | The Pro variant is unusually poorly differentiated from the base
       | model this cycle: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/
       | 
       | The 13 Pro had ProMotion, 14 Pro had Dynamic Island and Always On
       | display, the 15 Pro had USB-C and the Action Button, the 16
       | Pro...has maybe slightly faster AI? 4k120fps video? USB-C w/ USB
       | 3? Not things most people would care about.
       | 
       | ProMotion/Always On is still limited to the Pro models which is
       | enough to justfy the upcharge, but it's a surprise they aren't
       | locking a new feature this time.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | The 5x (vs 2x) optical zoom will also convince a few to go for
         | the Pro. Isn't the price difference smaller than previous
         | models too?
        
           | dudus wrote:
           | The extra optical zoom has been THE defining feature that
           | pushes PRO to most users. It's a feature enjoyed by anyone
           | and everyone.
        
             | jahnu wrote:
             | It basically saves some people into photography having to
             | buy an additional compact camera.
        
             | pradn wrote:
             | The optical zoom on the Pro is so good! I often zoom in
             | 3-5x and still get great results. I've gotten comments from
             | people saying they thought photos of far off building
             | features, etc, were taken with a DSLR.
             | 
             | It's a no-brainer to get the Pro for this reason, if you
             | care about photos.
        
               | panarky wrote:
               | Really thought they'd upgrade from 12MP to 48MP on the
               | telephoto. iPhone 16 Pro matched the Pixel's 5x optical
               | zoom, but weirdly it remains stuck at 12MP.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | It might be a 48MP sensor that produces 12MP readout
               | after pixel binning. That's how the sensors on the Sony
               | Xperia 1 work. Does Apple use Sony sensors? I vaguely
               | remember that being a thing.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | $200 more for the base pro, but looking at trade-in values
           | for my 14, you get half of that back.....
        
           | slaymaker1907 wrote:
           | I'm by no means a professional photographer, but better zoom
           | is definitely a big selling point.
        
           | janandonly wrote:
           | The previous model 15 pro already has 3x, so it's a jump from
           | 3x to 5x. Not enough for me to upgrade already, but a good
           | feature if you like photography or videography.
        
           | rqtwteye wrote:
           | Is this a real zoom or just a fixed lens with longer focal
           | length? I have read that the 13 Pro does digital zoom between
           | 1x and 2.9x and only at 3x the 3x lens kicks in. So if you
           | have a 5x lens you get digital zoom over an even longer
           | range. So you may end up with worse image quality over a
           | wider range.
           | 
           | Is this correct?
        
         | Kirby64 wrote:
         | 15 and 15 Pro both had USB-C. The 15 pro just has USB3 capable
         | USB-C (15 regular was USB2 only). Seems like they're keeping
         | that differentiation, which I suppose makes sense given the
         | USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | > USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost
           | 
           | Is it actually a different die though? The A18 and A18 Pro
           | are so close in specs, with the same 6 CPU cores, same 16 NPU
           | cores and only 5 vs. 6 GPU cores that I would guess that they
           | are the very same die just with one GPU cluster and USB3
           | switched off in the non-Pro version.
        
             | Kirby64 wrote:
             | On the 15 series it was since they used different chip
             | generations. No idea on the new 16 series, we'll have to
             | wait for die shots from teardown groups.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | In the presentation they said they're separate dies with
             | different features available on the Pro, that aren't on the
             | base SoC.
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | Yes, different dies. The Pro also has a more advanced NPU
             | and massively more IO bandwidth to process 4K120 video.
        
             | Aaargh20318 wrote:
             | They mentioned the Pro also has a larger CPU cache.
        
             | nabla9 wrote:
             | A18 Pro is also faster. Typically the speed and 5 vs 6 core
             | difference would use the same die and selecting Pro chips
             | during testing. Chips that tolerate heat better become pro-
             | model chips.
             | 
             | The rumor was that they are different dies. It seems
             | strange because both are made with the same 2nd generation
             | 3nm architecture.
        
         | veber-alex wrote:
         | The 16 Pro has a bigger display.
         | 
         | Each model now has a different display size.
         | 
         | You can choose between 6.1", 6.3", 6.7" and 6.9"
        
           | evilfred wrote:
           | this part is really frustrating. I want to upgrade from my 13
           | Pro and have 120Hz but 6.7" is huge
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | They've trimmed the bezels enough that the 13 Pro and 16
             | Pro are exactly the same width despite the bigger screen,
             | and the 16 is only a few mm taller.
             | 
             | https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-
             | iPhone-13-Pro,A...
        
             | raydev wrote:
             | The new Pro is 6.3", not 6.7" (that's the outgoing Pro
             | Max).
             | 
             | If it helps, the Pro is only increasing by a few mm in
             | height and depth, not width.
             | 
             | [1]: iPhone 13 Pro specs:
             | https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13-pro/specs/
             | 
             | [2]: iPhone 16 Pro specs:
             | https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone-16-pro/specs/
        
           | playa1 wrote:
           | I would be fine with the Pro models getting larger screens if
           | they would shrink the standard phone. I'm still trying to
           | survive with my 12 mini for as long as possible until the
           | battery dies. I tried a standard iPhone 15 for two weeks last
           | year and I wasn't happy with the larger size and returned it.
           | 
           | The mini was a great form factor, fits in more pockets
           | comfortably and the whole screen is within reach of my thumb
           | when using the phone one-handed.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | More people want "all of the above" to be larger than want
             | the smaller phone. It does leave those that prefer the
             | truly small phones in a tough spot though, but they are a
             | tiny percentage of buyers and only a fraction of that
             | percentage actually dislike the other options vs would just
             | use the mini when it's available
             | https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-
             | unpopula...
             | 
             | That said I wonder if they'll slip in a new mini model
             | every once in a great while to give that group of users an
             | option.
        
         | danieldk wrote:
         | For me 60Hz on the base model is now a deal breaker. Even our
         | daughter's 300 Euro A54 has a 120Hz screen (though not LTPO).
         | Once you are used to 120Hz on a touch device, it's hard to go
         | back (different on a relatively static computer screen, where I
         | prefer having the high DPI of 5k 27"). So, it's iPhone Pro
         | models until the base model gets >60Hz too.
        
           | ahoka wrote:
           | Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous_
             | 
             | My mom doesn't need more than 8GB RAM. Overengineering is
             | still bad engineering.
        
               | nox101 wrote:
               | I generally find the opposite. Experts know how to deal
               | with limited memory. They benefit from more but they
               | understand the tradeoffs. Non-experts get all kinds of
               | bad experiences not realizing the issue is their machine
               | is underpowered.
               | 
               | Maybe 8GB ram is enough for your mom but know lots of
               | non-techies suffering with underpowered machines.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Non-experts get all kinds of bad experiences not
               | realizing the issue is their machine is underpowered_
               | 
               | As always, it depends on how the machine is being used.
               | The encompasses both intent and habits.
               | 
               | Someone who will install ad-spam toolbars will chew
               | through all the memory in the world. That doesn't change
               | the fact that they're largely using their device to
               | e-mail, read news and occasionally open a spreadsheet.
        
               | nox101 wrote:
               | The people I've seen with underpowered machines, wait 5
               | minutes for them to boot since they are both slow
               | (celeron) and low-mem (so swapping 10-15 times while
               | booting). They they take minutes to launch apps (like
               | open a spreadsheet).
               | 
               | It doesn't matter than they're only using their device to
               | e-mail, read news, and occasionally open a spreadsheet.
               | In fact, reading news is arguably a memory and perf hog.
               | 100s of large images, plus video, etc... taxes any low-
               | powered/low-memory machine. It's bad enough on a fast
               | machine that doesn't slow down but is still covered in
               | ads on the news page. But it's horryfing on an under-
               | powered/under-memory machine.
        
               | consteval wrote:
               | Might have been true 5 years ago, but I don't think this
               | is true now. Base systems with nothing open are using 3+
               | gigs of memory. Web pages use a ton, but even fairly
               | standard apps will use a gig or more (thanks, electron).
               | 
               | The end result is super slow loading as stuff is swapped,
               | apps crashing (at least on Windows), tabs reloading when
               | you don't want them to.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Web pages use a ton, but even fairly standard apps
               | will use a gig or more (thanks, electron)_
               | 
               | She does most of that on an iPad. The computer is used
               | for e-mail, filling out government forms and looking at
               | spreadsheets. She needs a sturdy machine that works,
               | simply, and doesn't need a lot of babying. A cheap, well-
               | configured Mac running Safari with an ad blocker is just
               | about perfect for that.
        
               | consteval wrote:
               | Using Excel with 8 gigs of ram is really pushing it.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Using Excel with 8 gigs of ram is really pushing it_
               | 
               | Just pulled it up on my (16GB) Mac. 300 MB.
               | 
               | Note that she's manipulating, like, a spreadsheet for the
               | rotary.
        
           | gessha wrote:
           | You and Apple's marketing team have come to the same
           | conclusion.
           | 
           | Sent from my iPhone 15 Pro
        
           | rottencupcakes wrote:
           | I've actually come to the conclusion that a laggier worse
           | phone display is a feature, not a bug. Quicker response times
           | = more addictive with little to no upside in productivity.
        
         | paulpan wrote:
         | Are there new hardware features announced for the 16 Pro? Apple
         | definitely would love to add an exclusive feature but it seems
         | like negligible pickings. The "Fusion" or "tetraprism" camera
         | is the only other one that comes to mind.
         | 
         | Fundamentally Apple wants to leverage their supply chain to
         | maximize shared parts between the Pro and base iPhones. Lack of
         | hardware innovations makes it hard to create product
         | differentiation.
         | 
         | Heck, even the A18 Pro chip seems a marginal upgrade over the
         | base A18 chip:
         | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/apples-a18-chip-desi...
        
         | reliableturing wrote:
         | I agree but I already planned to upgrade to a 16 Pro up from my
         | 12. Biggest thing I'm looking forward to? Battery life.
         | 
         | In the announcement they said "big boost", and looking at the
         | comparison page I will go from 17h video playback to 27h.
         | That's not even including the battery degradation I built up in
         | the last 4 years. I'm practically going to double my battery
         | life.
        
           | jncfhnb wrote:
           | Damn you can only watch 13 hours of video content per day
           | now? Rough.
        
             | reliableturing wrote:
             | I know, really looking forward to watching 27h of video in
             | a day
        
               | kachapopopow wrote:
               | If you plug in for 10 minutes you can watch 41h of video
               | in a day!
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | Are you assuming the upgrade 'stride' is 1, whereas perhaps the
         | normal user does not upgrade more often than every 3rd model?
        
           | minimaxir wrote:
           | This isn't related to the user update cycle discussions, just
           | pointing out it's odd that Apple has always locked a new
           | feature/hardware to a higher SKU to help price discriminate
           | but here it's weaker.
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | Here's the link you intended:
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16-pr...
        
         | jhawk28 wrote:
         | Lidar is only on Pro.
        
         | echoangle wrote:
         | The 15 non-Pro also had USB C, the main differences were action
         | button and camera
        
       | MangoCoffee wrote:
       | It seemed like smartphone has reached its peak
        
         | yungporko wrote:
         | smartphone plataeu happened like 8 years ago. at this point,
         | even in our wildest dreams, what else could you possibly want a
         | phone to do? all that is left for this form factor is
         | incremental QoL improvements until some crazy new technology
         | which we can't yet fathom drops, and god help us when it does
         | lol.
        
       | veber-alex wrote:
       | I am disappointed.
       | 
       | The 16 Pro is larger and heavier than the 15 pro which is already
       | heavy.
       | 
       | I have small hands, I want a smaller and lighter phone.
       | 
       | Not going to buy the 16 because of lack of ProMotion.
        
         | eitally wrote:
         | I'm not in the iPhone ecosystem anyway, so it's probably moot,
         | but one thing Google did _really right_ this year was to issue
         | Pixel 9 Pro and Pro XL that are identical in everything but the
         | screen size. I 'm very happily upgrading from a very large 8
         | Pro to a nicely pocketable 9 Pro that contains all the same
         | guts as the 9 Pro XL. Apple should have done the same.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | The Pro and Pro Max are like you say with the sole exception
           | of optical zoom level. OP is referring to the non-pro models
           | at the end when talking about ProMotion (there are 4 main
           | variants each release, not 2).
        
         | aucisson_masque wrote:
         | i bought my grandma an iphone 6, damn these thing were perfect
         | size and the force haptic was awesome. Iphone are becoming more
         | and more like android, in size, in complexity and jankyness.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Smaller notch? Touch ID? Better battery life? Faster charging?
       | Larger default storage? Nope, let's skip all that and spend most
       | of the event talking about video recording.
       | 
       | Is anyone here actually excited about the features they just
       | announced? Or are people simply upgrading because they get the
       | latest iPhone every year or two by default?
        
         | oldstrangers wrote:
         | Judging by the success of TikTok, yes, lots of consumers will
         | love new video features.
        
         | thiht wrote:
         | > Better battery life
         | 
         | That's the only thing from your list that people actually care
         | about and they did improve battery life, there was a whole
         | segment about it.
         | 
         | The rest? No one cares. Do you even use an iPhone? You sound
         | like me before I got an iPhone:
         | 
         | - I thought the notch would be annoying, I don't even notice it
         | anymore, it's never been an issue in actual use
         | 
         | - I was convinced TouchID was better than FaceID but I
         | completely changed my mind. FaceID is just more reliable and
         | convenient, especially if you have sweaty palms
         | 
         | - Faster charging? I mean, why not, it's always nice if it can
         | be faster, but I've found fast charging already surprisingly
         | fast whenever I've needed to quickly get some % before going
         | out
         | 
         | - Larger default storage? Same, it's a nice plus, but if you
         | want or need more storage, pay for more? You have the option
        
           | ProfessorLayton wrote:
           | I disagree, there's lots to improve on that "regular users"
           | would notice. I went from an 11 (non pro) to a 15PM, and
           | there's still a few major gripes I'd like to see fixed that
           | haven't been addressed in the 16, but would benefit regular
           | users if improved:
           | 
           | - I wish my phone was easier to unlock when outside in the
           | bright sun and wearing glasses. I often have to take them off
           | or try again, or put in a passcode.
           | 
           | - I'd like the screen to not dim after a few minutes outside
           | in the sun.
           | 
           | - I wish my phone charged faster, especially for moments
           | where I'm like "Oh crap, my uber will be here in 5m and I
           | forgot to charge my phone"
           | 
           | - I wish my safari tabs didn't attempt to reload at the most
           | inopportune times (or ever like my Macbook). This is a very
           | real scenario I run into often when in the subway with no
           | cell/wifi, and is extremely annoying. Better than my 11, but
           | not fixed by any means.
           | 
           | - I wish my OLED screen didn't have visible PWM at low
           | brightness, and strained my eyes. Not everyone is sensitive
           | to this, but some are, and I didn't have this issue with my
           | 11.
           | 
           | These are all regular user stories.
        
             | Bluecobra wrote:
             | > I wish my OLED screen didn't have visible PWM at low
             | brightness, and strained my eyes. Not everyone is sensitive
             | to this, but some are, and I didn't have this issue with my
             | 11.
             | 
             | Have you tried playing with Reduce White Point in
             | accessibility options? This plus the Dark Reader plugin for
             | Safari it's a good option for late night reading.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | > _I wish my safari tabs didn 't attempt to reload at the
             | most inopportune times_
             | 
             | This is my absolute #1 wish for my phone.
             | 
             | I want to load up 30 news tabs before I hop on the subway
             | and just have them all stay loaded, instead of the most
             | recent 4 staying loaded, while any others refresh (and
             | fail) if I switch back to them.
             | 
             | I absolutely want all of my tabs to have the page state
             | cached in storage whenever I leave them and they're done
             | loading. With the scroll position too, as I'll often be
             | interrupted halfway through reading a long story. I don't
             | want them to be stored ephemerally in memory.
             | 
             | Surely it can't be so impossible to "pickle" the state of
             | the page and then unpickle? I can totally accept it not
             | surviving every app upgrade too. Just let me load up
             | stories on the subway platform and read them all on my
             | underground commute.
        
               | callalex wrote:
               | The "reading list" feature in safari saves pages for
               | offline viewing.
        
             | dmonitor wrote:
             | Do you have one of the high wattage charging bricks? I got
             | one from Anker and the speed at which my phone charges is
             | absolutely insane.
        
           | paperplatter wrote:
           | The notch is ok, but FaceID is a downgrade, and so is not
           | having a home button or a headphone jack.
        
             | KerrAvon wrote:
             | Have you tried a phone with Face ID? I can't say that I've
             | ever missed the home button.
        
               | paperplatter wrote:
               | Yeah. It fails maybe 10% of the time, I can't unlock it
               | without looking at it, and the new swipe gestures are
               | harder than using the home button. Lesser known: Once you
               | enable FaceID, the option to require passcode only after
               | X minutes is removed, leaving only "immediately." Because
               | I had to unlock my iPhone way more often as a result,
               | this made that error rate more of a problem. Gave up and
               | went back to my 6S.
               | 
               | It's even worse for my elderly friend, who absolutely
               | cannot execute the app switcher/killer gesture that was
               | previously a double-tap on the home button. Guess I
               | should set him up with assisted touch (the onscreen home
               | button).
        
           | nox101 wrote:
           | > - I thought the notch would be annoying, I don't even
           | notice it anymore, it's never been an issue in actual use
           | 
           | I have several apps the notch covers. Arguably that's the
           | app's fault for not upgrading ? Or is it Apple's? Maybe Apple
           | should let apps opt into the notch. For apps that don't opt
           | in they'd get a blank bar at the top. That would at least not
           | have broken so many apps.
           | 
           | > - I was convinced TouchID was better than FaceID but I
           | completely changed my mind. FaceID is just more reliable and
           | convenient, especially if you have sweaty palms
           | 
           | Sucks with face masks.
        
             | KerrAvon wrote:
             | Face ID works fine with face masks. Check that you have the
             | feature enabled. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452
        
               | nox101 wrote:
               | Face ID does not work fine with face masks. Tons of
               | complaints. Tons of people for which it doesn't work. If
               | it works for you consider yourself lucky.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | Not everyone has the same set of use cases that you do.
           | Device storage for example is a big deal for anyone who
           | spends significant time outside of wifi. Buying more cloud
           | storage doesn't help someone without an internet connection.
           | Many people prefer TouchID for various reasons and I'm not
           | sure why we wouldn't believe them just because you happen to
           | like FaceID.
        
           | mysteria wrote:
           | > I was convinced TouchID was better than FaceID but I
           | completely changed my mind. FaceID is just more reliable and
           | convenient, especially if you have sweaty palms
           | 
           | Actually for me it's the opposite, and I see much more
           | failures to unlock with FaceID compared to TouchID. There are
           | many times where I had to hold the phone out in front of me
           | like I'm taking a selfie and look directly at it for the
           | system to work, whereas TouchID works in all kinds of weird
           | positions as long as I'm able to place my finger on the
           | sensor.
        
           | grujicd wrote:
           | FaceID is not really compatible with Always On Displays. When
           | you glance at a screen it's because you want to take a look
           | at the clock or see if there are any notifications. I don't
           | want my glance to unlock it! At least that's my experience
           | with Galaxy phones and how I use AOD.
        
             | KerrAvon wrote:
             | iPhones with FaceID and AOD work fine. Your glance doesn't
             | unlock it unless/until you want it to.
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | 5x zoom and the new camera button on the Pro sound great to me,
         | will probably upgrade from my 12 mini for that
         | 
         | I don't shoot much video but I do take photos
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | Is that a big upgrade on just using the volume down button
           | for photos?
        
         | saurik wrote:
         | Do people have to "upgrade" constantly? Shouldn't the iPhone
         | get at least a little bit better every year, even if no one
         | "upgrades"? I often use my devices for years until they break
         | in some way, and then I get a new one... is it really so wrong
         | that the 2024 model is only better in ways you don't care about
         | from the 2023 model?
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | you don't have to upgrade, but it used to be tempting
        
             | TillE wrote:
             | Smartphone development was super fast from the iPhone 2G to
             | the iPhone XS, give or take. Now the technology has
             | basically caught up to the vision.
             | 
             | It's just a portable computer, and people don't buy new
             | computers every year or two.
        
               | pazimzadeh wrote:
               | I don't think anything after the 6S or 7 was that
               | impressive. The X's form factor was cool, that's about
               | it. I was annoyed that they took out the force sensor/3D
               | touch.
               | 
               | It's not just the phone though, you would think by now
               | they would release a smaller watch with round face.
               | 
               | In the iPod era we got a new form factor almost every
               | year. You didn't have to buy it, but you had the choice.
               | Now if I want a round watch I have to buy from google,
               | which doesn't work with my iPhone?
        
           | nox101 wrote:
           | Apple often gates features on model number. They'll make up
           | some BS about needing the power of the newer model to do X
           | but they'll be plenty of demos of doing X on various
           | platforms with less power.
           | 
           | Not saying I need those new features. Only that Apple's
           | incentives are to try to get you to buy the new phone so they
           | are incentivised to gate several software only features to
           | try to get you to upgrade.
        
           | whycome wrote:
           | Especially when the upgrade cadence is just one year. It's
           | not a PS5 or whatever.
           | 
           | Like any evolution, the year over year changes shouldn't be
           | that drastic
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | If Sony was able to keep their console upgrade cadence at
             | this same rate, we'd be playing games in holograms by now
        
           | 4dm1r4lg3n3r4l wrote:
           | Exactly. Them releasing a new model every year with small,
           | incremental updates is not for people to upgrade from the
           | latest model (although it is obvious Apple tries to frame the
           | newer models as large upgrades, they haven't been that for
           | the past 5 or so years), but rather for people who have been
           | wanting to upgrade for a while from their 3-4-5 year old
           | iPhones, and whenever they do they get the latest and
           | greatest. Would the new models feel bigger upgrades if Apple
           | only released one every 2-3 year? Sure. Would that be better
           | for the average consumer looking to upgrade from whatever
           | iPhone they have? Not sure. Incremental updates are nice IMO,
           | stop caring about them if your iPhone is less than 3 year
           | old...
        
           | spike021 wrote:
           | My personal upgrade cycle has been every 4 or so years for
           | the last few iPhones. You really don't need to upgrade more
           | often.
           | 
           | I'm on a 12 Pro and I only want to upgrade to get more memory
           | and faster processors. My current phone easily pages apps out
           | of memory too often these days and it gets a bit tiring.
           | Also, I already replaced the battery once after 1.5 years and
           | the current battery is already back to about the same
           | health/capacity as the first one was in the same amount of
           | time.
        
             | BeFlatXIII wrote:
             | The only reason I feel pressure to upgrade my 11 is due to
             | Pokemon Go ruining the battery (again). Will try to snag a
             | used 13 Pro Max on the secondhand sites in a few weeks.
        
             | cmcaleer wrote:
             | I'm on the same model and find it completely fine. The only
             | thing I want is USBC. I keep saying "next year's model will
             | have some killer feature that'll make it worth ditching my
             | lightning cable finally", and Apple keep giving me no
             | reason to upgrade.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | They mentioned giving up to $800-$1000 for trade in for an
           | iPhone 12 or newer. That's pretty aggressive on a device
           | that's $999-$1199 list. It sounds like they are really
           | wanting people to upgrade to this device.
        
             | lyall wrote:
             | It's "Up to $800" for an "iPhone 12 or newer". You won't
             | get more than $200 for trading in an iPhone 12. The max
             | value is reserved for the newest and highest end phones,
             | i.e. 15 Pro Max.
        
             | shmoogy wrote:
             | Because you need more ram for apple intelligence and
             | they'll probably assume people will buy more services when
             | they start adding to icloud
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | If the iPhone was radically better every single year, people
           | would be complaining about e-waste instead.
        
             | makeitdouble wrote:
             | It was radically better every year for a while.
             | 
             | We complained about lockin and the uselessness once the
             | older devices falls off the Apple support list, as repairs
             | became a huge PITA (full swing anti-repair design at the
             | time), and rooting the phones didn't help much as the
             | jailbreaking scene was kneecapped compared to android's
             | alternative stores.
        
           | grimgrin wrote:
           | Dunno exactly what my dance is but more than once I've found
           | myself getting on the upgrade program, but not upgrading on
           | the 12 month opportunity and instead paying it off over the
           | next 12. If it has a crack I'll do a last minute applecare
           | swap while I got it. Cool, new old phone for another cycle
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | No, most people shouldn't be upgrading constantly. But Apple
           | does a least encourage this somewhat with their Upgrade
           | Program.
        
             | madeofpalk wrote:
             | It's not surprising that a company tries to sell you a
             | product.
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Many families hand devices down. It would be odd for a bachelor
         | to buy every new device every year, but if older devices end up
         | with kids or grandpa it makes perfect sense for the family to
         | buy a new device every year.
        
           | mig39 wrote:
           | Yes, my family practices trickle-down iPhoneconomics. I get
           | the new one every year, because it's a tax thing. I give my
           | old one to my wife, and whichever kid has the oldest phone
           | gets hers.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | > because it's a tax thing
             | 
             | How so?
        
               | thih9 wrote:
               | Like this: it's an excuse to buy the latest phone.
               | 
               | As long as other family members are happy with a steady
               | stream of hand me downs, no harm done I guess.
        
               | ricw wrote:
               | Phones can be purchased through your company as a perk
               | using pre-tax dollars, as everyone uses their phone for
               | business.
        
               | mason55 wrote:
               | It's still cheaper to not buy a phone. Yes, buying with
               | pre-tax dollars is cheaper than at a store. But not
               | buying one at all is even cheaper.
               | 
               | And business expenses, like a new phone, are usually
               | above the line, meaning you essentially get a discount of
               | your marginal tax rate, you don't just get it for free.
        
               | jessriedel wrote:
               | Yes of course it still costs money and not worth it if
               | you derive zero benefit. But you pay less money, so you
               | expect over many users there will be several for whom its
               | worth upgrading at the lower price but not the higher
               | price.
        
               | nathancahill wrote:
               | Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAjxn2US7J8
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | I don't think they meant it like "I have to get the new
               | one for tax reasons", but more like "I get the new one
               | instead of my wife getting the new one, for tax reasons"
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | But then they have to un-deduct the value of the phone
               | given to family members, especially if it is only a year
               | old.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | What tax thing results it being cheaper for you to buy a
             | new iPhone rather than not buy a new iPhone?
        
               | Mathnerd314 wrote:
               | Probably as a business expense it can be deducted from
               | income for the business + no increase in personal income
               | for him. It's not free but is something like a 50%
               | savings vs. paying himself and buying it personally.
        
               | mercutio2 wrote:
               | You really can't hand down your business expensed iPhone
               | to a family member.
               | 
               | That's liable to land you in hot water in an audit.
        
               | tedunangst wrote:
               | Gotta write off the wife, too.
        
               | WheatMillington wrote:
               | They write it off, Jerry.
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | I got the 15 pro because of an offer through my wife's work (it
         | made it ridiculously cheap and seemed like the right
         | opportunity to replace my 3 year old SE), and worried I'd have
         | a bit of FOMO with the 16 a month away from release.
         | 
         | I really don't care. The 15 pro is so much phone, I can't
         | imagine it lasting less than my SE. And frankly I only upgraded
         | due to the limited time opportunity and knowing my son could
         | use my SE due to his 7 being a crumpled lump of broken glass
         | and gnarled aluminum. It's like he skate boards to school on
         | it. RIP little SE, I guess.
         | 
         | I'd like the slightly nicer camera, but the ones on the 15 pro
         | are so good it seems absurd to complain. I actually used this
         | thing for product photos on my store's website, and they turned
         | out remarkably well. It's not PRO level (I'll reproduce all of
         | them with my camera later) but my god, cameras in phones have
         | come a long, long way. We're at a point where I'd be very
         | surprised if iPhone 17 introduces anything interesting.
        
           | nox101 wrote:
           | I got the 15 mostly for USB-C. I still have cable hell
           | because my AirPods are lightning so sometimes I need USB-C ->
           | lightning and sometimes I need USB-A -> lightning
           | 
           | I might get an Airpod 4 for the USB-C though the Airpod 3
           | sucked and I'm suspecting the Airpod 4 is just as bad. Falls
           | out (compared to Airpod 2). Pinch to play/pause/que sucks
           | compared to Tap to play/pause/cue. Several friends had
           | similar experiences including several friends that work at
           | Apple. All of them returned their Airpod 3s.
        
             | mrcb_ wrote:
             | A magsafe power bank should help alleviate the need for a
             | lightning cable just for charging airpods.
        
               | nox101 wrote:
               | How does that help? now I need to carry a magsafe charger
               | everywhere I go so that I always have a way to charge?
               | That's not better than needing 2 different kinds of
               | cables. it's worse.
        
           | slt2021 wrote:
           | both glass and back frame is easily replaceable and very easy
           | to DIY.
           | 
           | the CPU and integrated circuit is the core of the phone and
           | if it is intact, the phone can be refreshed to be like new
           | with the new shell for like $30 with parts from ebay
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Is anyone here actually excited about the features they just
         | announced?_
         | 
         | I'm frankly happy Cupertino didn't add bullshit features to
         | make it exciting. This is an incremental update. They opened up
         | minor new capabilities, some of which will matter to some
         | people to varying degrees of compellingness.
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | I only upgrade every 4 or 5 years, and only because I need more
         | storage after a few years of usage. This time I'll probably
         | "upgrade" to last year's version.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Video and photography are by far the biggest feature that
         | people buy phones for. Pretty much every phone manufacturer
         | focuses on cameras for that reason.
        
           | asadotzler wrote:
           | Incorrect. Video and photography is all the phone
           | manufacturers can practically upgrade given the form factor
           | constraints (size, thermals, etc.) so that's what consumers
           | have been trained to differentiate between generations and
           | makes and makers. The truth is the feature most people buy
           | new phones for is more battery, and that's about it.
        
         | paperplatter wrote:
         | I'm just glad it makes the slightly less new ones a bit
         | cheaper. My iPhone 6S needs to either get a new battery or get
         | replaced.
        
           | callalex wrote:
           | The 6S is one of the last iPhones you can reasonably replace
           | the battery on by yourself with a kit and guide from iFixIt.
           | Cherish it!
        
             | paperplatter wrote:
             | Yeah but unfortunately I really needed more space than what
             | I bought, and I figure at some point my cell carrier will
             | drop support like they did with my 5. Also the 6S has that
             | infamous battery design flaw. So the battery repair cost is
             | something to think about vs replacing the phone.
        
         | Xenoamorphous wrote:
         | For better or worse the current big thing is AI. I wouldn't
         | expect any big leap in hardware anytime soon, other than
         | perhaps running local AI models locally.
        
         | wilsonnb3 wrote:
         | I mean, the big feature last year was that it was made out of
         | titanium making it slightly lighter than the previous stainless
         | steel models but still heavier than the aluminum regular models
         | for no reason. Video recording is cooler than that, at least.
        
           | amarshall wrote:
           | They added enough weight back to the 16 Pro that it's now
           | only 7 grams lighter than the 14 Pro, whereas the 15 Pro was
           | 19 grams lighter than the 14 Pro. (I just want a new Mini,
           | tbh)
        
         | rkagerer wrote:
         | > _Touch ID?_
         | 
         | I missed the memo - I thought Touch ID was abandoned in favor
         | of Face ID? Did they bring it back on the latest models? Can
         | you use it again instead of Face ID, and is it as instant as it
         | was on the older Apple phones?
        
           | yoyoyo1122 wrote:
           | TouchID is still on iPad Air and Mini.
           | 
           | Would love to have both! FaceID never works for me when I'm
           | laying on my side in bed.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | It isn't abandoned. The side button on the iPad Air for
           | example is a touch ID sensor. They just don't want to bring
           | it to iPhone for some reason. Plus all other high-end phones
           | from competing manufacturers have touch sensors under the
           | screen now.
        
           | throwitaway1123 wrote:
           | The rest of the industry seems to be moving towards under-
           | screen ultrasonic fingerprint readers, which if Apple
           | adopted, would allow them to shrink the notch by getting rid
           | of the Face ID sensors. I think they've dug in their heels on
           | Face ID though, so it likely won't happen (although they did
           | reverse course on Force Touch, so anything is possible).
           | 
           | They likely won't end up reducing the size of the notch any
           | further until they figure out how to either make Face ID work
           | with just a single selfie camera (which would inevitably be
           | less secure), or put the sensors under some sort of semi-
           | transparent display.
           | 
           | Many people thought they missed an opportunity by not simply
           | putting the fingerprint sensor under the Apple logo on the
           | back of the iPhone, but they probably didn't like the UX of
           | that solution.
        
             | BeFlatXIII wrote:
             | Is the notch size an actual problem, or is it just a
             | popular complaint among gadget blogs?
        
               | paxys wrote:
               | You can get used to anything after putting up with it for
               | long enough, but use a Galaxy S24 or Pixel 9 for a few
               | weeks and when you come back to an iPhone you will
               | realize just how intrusive the notch really is. Apple
               | marketing has really convinced us that watching an entire
               | movie on our $1200 device with a large chunk of the
               | screen blacked out is totally normal.
        
               | BeFlatXIII wrote:
               | Isn't the aspect ratio on the iPhone such that a standard
               | 16:9 video wouldn't interfere with the notch or rounded
               | corners anyway?
        
               | paxys wrote:
               | It covers 16:9, but nothing beyond that. Most new
               | releases are now 2x1 or 2.39x1, and they all get blocked
               | by the notch. Try playing a widescreen YouTube video or
               | any Netflix original and you will see this.
        
               | samyakbardiya wrote:
               | its about day to day usage, S23 user myself, whenever I
               | use my friends phone I just can't stop staring at the
               | thicc notch, anothwr reason it pop so much is because my
               | friend uses light mode.
        
             | throw0101c wrote:
             | > _The rest of the industry seems to be moving towards
             | under-screen ultrasonic fingerprint readers, which if Apple
             | adopted, would allow them to shrink the notch by getting
             | rid of the Face ID sensors. I think they 've dug in their
             | heels on Face ID though, so it likely won't happen
             | (although they did reverse course on Force Touch, so
             | anything is possible)._
             | 
             | Or they could have both Touch- and FaceID. -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
               | throwitaway1123 wrote:
               | They definitely could, but it would likely cost Apple
               | more to have two sets of sensors, not to mention take up
               | more space in the device itself. Isn't that how they
               | justified removing the headphone jack? And of course this
               | is Apple we're talking about -- they would probably deem
               | having two authentication methods to be too confusing for
               | users. They only recently decided to allow things like
               | arbitrary home screen icon re-arrangements in iOS 18.
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | Not really. Apple has stagnated.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | It said A18 uses 20% less power than A17. However, that might
         | have been for the CPU cores. I don't remember if they made
         | claims specific to the GPU cores or the ML cores.
        
         | 4fterd4rk wrote:
         | Well it does actually have faster wireless charging and better
         | battery life but ooookay.
         | 
         | I buy a new phone every year because I'm rich, I love
         | technology, and this is a device I use for a significant
         | portion of every single day.
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | I'm excited that the cost of iPhone 15's will continue to fall
         | so I can soon eliminate lightning cables from my life. Please
         | everyone, go out and upgrade from 15 to 16! :)
        
           | mohaine wrote:
           | A set of these, while still not ideal, make the transition
           | much easier.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B6PDGLWZ
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | This cable has changed my life:
             | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6M8157L
        
             | jessriedel wrote:
             | I have half a dozen in my bag already :)
        
         | heraldgeezer wrote:
         | Crazy how my Oneplus 10 (2 years old btw) charges to 100% in
         | 30min and 80% in 20min from 0. All I do is charge when I
         | shower, and it's done.
        
         | fundad wrote:
         | I don't think paying inflated prices for more expensive inputs
         | while keeping the same retail price is good business, I wish it
         | were because everything has gone up. Other than the camera
         | button, Apple focused on features enabled by the System-on-a-
         | chip because the per-unit marginal of those features are low.
         | The 16 has improved computational photography which could be a
         | substitute for optical zoom for some families who previously
         | bought the Pro for optical zoom.
         | 
         | It makes sense that they would keep prices constant this year
         | considering the pattern over the last decade.
         | 
         | Apple raised the retail price on the 15 Pro Max and added 5x
         | zoom (2023). Apple raised the price on the iPhone 14 by using
         | last-generation SoC (2022). Apple raised the price on the
         | iPhone 12 and 12 Pro by dropping the AC adaptor and adding
         | carrier charges of $30 (at least in the US) (2020). Apple
         | raised the retail price of the iPhone 8 ($50 more than the 7)
         | and in the same year, put more expensive inputs in the the X
         | line which became the Pro line (2017). Apple put more expensive
         | inputs in the 6 Plus and priced it $100 more than the 6 (2014).
        
         | DidYaWipe wrote:
         | My last iPhone purchase was the original SE... which turned out
         | to be the most highly-regarded iPhone of them all.
         | 
         | It got smashed, so now I have to deal with all the regressions.
         | No TouchID, no headphone jack, no SIM slot. Will I enjoy having
         | a much better camera? Yep. But that won't do me any good while
         | I can't listen to shit on the plane or in my cars... unless I
         | carry an octopus of dongles everywhere, and none of it breaks
         | and none of its non-removable batteries die.
         | 
         | The sad fact is that manufacturers work harder to screw the
         | customer now than they do to impress him. Apologists enable
         | this behavior, and entire product categories regress.
        
           | sourcecodeplz wrote:
           | They still sell the SE. It has touch ID and SIM slot. No
           | headphone jack though.
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | The camera button and x5 zoom is why I'm finally upgrading from
         | a 12 Pro.
        
         | willseth wrote:
         | I have a 14 Pro, and the main reasons I want to upgrade are for
         | Apple Intelligence (mostly Siri-based) and for the better
         | camera and video (as my family's default photog). If I didn't
         | have kids I could wait a few more years on the camera, but I've
         | been wanting a better Siri for years.
        
         | rongenre wrote:
         | I'm on a 6 year old XS. When I upgrade, I get 5G and USB-C, and
         | a chip that's now ahead of the OS.
        
       | ttepasse wrote:
       | I had a small conspiratorial thought while watching this event:
       | 
       | "Apple Intelligence" does not come to Europe and the rest of the
       | world because of the DMA/DSA or other regulations. It doesn't
       | come, because language support isn't there.
       | 
       | They are only announcing US English support, with some other
       | English dialects in December: https://eu-img-
       | cdn.livecenter.com/lc-images-2021/lcimg-72ed0...
       | 
       | And the list of proposed languages coming sometimes in 2025 is
       | rather anaemic: https://eu-img-cdn.livecenter.com/lc-
       | images-2021/lcimg-8aec0...
       | 
       | Granted, Silicon Valley companies are mostly rather bad when it
       | comes to other languages (and even more other cultures), but
       | Apple in the last decade tried at least and language support for
       | Siri, dictation and such had in the past much fuller lists of
       | language support. When was the last time they had to pad an extra
       | slide with different variants of English [1]? When did they had
       | to put Spanish, the quasi second language of the US, into next
       | year? And missing from the next year slide are major languages
       | like Arabic, Japanese, German, Italian, Hindi and a lot of more
       | languages Siri already could do, although badly.
       | 
       | Maybe the new LLM/ML training for "Apple Intelligence" needs far
       | more data, bigger data sets and that's why?
       | 
       | [1] Normally I would have thought of a slide with english
       | dialects as a good thing. Computer language systems should
       | recognize that the English language is different in different
       | countries, that different English-speaking cultures are different
       | and I'd argue even "UK English" is far to wide for that country
       | of dozens of vastly different dialects. And of course the biggest
       | English dialect is missing: "English as a second/nth language" or
       | better "English with an accent".
        
         | th3owner wrote:
         | I am still waiting for Safari to translate Danish.
        
       | kube-system wrote:
       | No Apple financing on the unlocked phones?
        
       | rty32 wrote:
       | > "Powered by the faster, more efficient A18 Pro chip and built
       | for Apple Intelligence, iPhone 16 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro Max are
       | the most advanced iPhone models we've ever made," said Greg
       | Joswiak, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing.
       | 
       | Thanks Greg, that's very helpful information.
        
         | gk1 wrote:
         | As much as I can't stand marketing phrases like "the most
         | advanced we've ever made" or "the most powerful yet" -- because
         | it should go without saying that the newest thing you're
         | releasing is also _the most_ of anything -- the fact that
         | companies keep using it suggests it actually works to market
         | the thing.
        
           | codetrotter wrote:
           | > the newest thing you're releasing is also the most of
           | anything
           | 
           | Well, they also regularly release lower specced models for
           | people who don't want, don't need or can't afford the Pro or
           | Pro Max iPhones.
           | 
           | And on the other hand you have people who need the best or
           | want the best.
           | 
           | And it's helpful to both kind of people to know that ok the
           | Pro and Pro Max are the most powerful ones.
           | 
           | And while it might seem "obvious" to you and me that Pro and
           | Pro Max are the most powerful iPhones, there's a lot of
           | people that don't regularly stay on top of what models exist
           | of iPhones.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | Isn't "the most advanced iPhone ever made" a meme by now?
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | Keynote Bingo: https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/g4z9cgmgep7.png
        
             | kbouck wrote:
             | Missing Forstall's "Blow Away"
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | The phrase was used--infamously, in some circles--by
           | Activision to describe the 2022 Call of Duty release (Modern
           | Warfare II) https://www.gamespot.com/articles/modern-
           | warfare-2-is-most-a...
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | They've run out of useful and interesting stuff to say so they
         | just flatter themselves with amazing progress which is
         | incremental at best.
        
         | iteratethis wrote:
         | We've manufactured this from a blend of grade 11 graphite
         | collected from an asteroid and dried oyster tears which you
         | will hide using a $5 cover from Alie Express.
        
           | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
           | People make jokes but we now carry these thousand dollar
           | devices that provide access to everything in our lives.
           | 
           | They should be covered in a durable and easily replaceable
           | cover.
        
             | stouset wrote:
             | Yeah, I mean, that's ideal right? Expensive and durable
             | materials covered with cheap, somewhat-durable, and
             | trivially replaceable cases to absorb wear and greatly
             | extend the lifespan of the expensive part.
        
             | LoganDark wrote:
             | I prefer when the device itself is durable and easily
             | repairable
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | Even if the device is durable and easily repairable it
               | makes no sense to exercise those features. Those features
               | are basically like insurance.
        
             | sixothree wrote:
             | You have to because they make the Pro devices
             | _intentionally_ slippery. I'm convinced it is to make the
             | items feel "precious".
        
           | cube2222 wrote:
           | Fwiw, the newer iPhone Pros are in fact extremely durable.
           | 
           | I don't like cases (they make the phone too bulky for my
           | liking) but also frequently drop my phone on stone/ceramic
           | tiles (not the perfect combo, I know) and after 3 years of
           | having a 13 Pro it's still in great shape.
           | 
           | Just a few scratches on the corners of the phone (which
           | usually get the most of the hit).
           | 
           | In other words, I very much appreciate them improving
           | durability.
        
             | iteratethis wrote:
             | I have a 13 Pro. Gorgeous to see without a case but way too
             | slippery for me. I need a case for grip.
        
         | ericwood wrote:
         | I've always wondered about the "most advanced ____ we've ever
         | made" phrase, it seems like almost like a silly tongue in cheek
         | inside joke at this point. Does it date back to Jobs? They've
         | used that exact turn of phrase for every product iteration as
         | long as I can remember but I can't find any info on its origin.
         | Maybe I'm hallucinating this?
        
           | readyplayernull wrote:
           | "AI for the rest of us."
           | 
           | https://www.apple.com/apple-intelligence/
           | 
           | We don't deserve so much advance.
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | It's just going to be true forever.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | I've always wondered what a VP of marketing does at a company
         | that already has a de-facto monopoly on their biggest market as
         | well as in the luxury segment worldwide.
         | 
         | Come out once a year and say "we made this thing bigger and
         | better"?
         | 
         | Must be nice to get paid $25mil/year for that.
        
           | travisjungroth wrote:
           | It's not like that monopoly was handed to them. They have
           | some of the best marketing in the world.
           | 
           | There's a quote from the CEO of Coca-Cola I remember but
           | can't find a source for, about why they still spend so much
           | on advertising. When a pilot gets to cruising altitude, he
           | doesn't shut down the engines.
        
           | 1123581321 wrote:
           | I've read that Apple marketing has a hand in product
           | direction. But yeah, maybe they are paid more for what they
           | don't say and keep others from saying. :)
        
             | tracerbulletx wrote:
             | In business school they teach you that product is part of
             | the field of marketing. In that choosing what you bring to
             | market is completely integrated with how you message it and
             | that they should not be separated.
        
       | uladzislau wrote:
       | This is very underwhelming update, let's wait for the next year
        
       | lcnmrn wrote:
       | More buttons? Since I lost my power button on Pixel 5, I'm using
       | it only with gestures: touch the fingerprint sensor to unlock,
       | swipe down on home screen to lock it. I think a slider on the
       | notification area can be used for volume up and down for a true
       | buttonless experience something Steve Jobs would have loved.
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | Ironic, isn't it? when the iPhone first came the most different
         | thing about it was that it had a very few buttons. they were
         | telling stories about how Steve Jobs wanted to remove all the
         | buttons. Now we have more and more buttons.
        
           | aucisson_masque wrote:
           | the iphone apple makes today and the iphone steve jobs made
           | are very different. No one can say what jobs would do
           | nowadays ofc, but i believe he adhered to strict guideline
           | like make it hold in one hand and simplify everything -> less
           | buttons, less settings.
           | 
           | I bet he is rolling in his grave when he sees this new icon
           | color theming thing or what they did with the control center
           | where there is now 5 different page of settings.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | _" Powered by the faster, more efficient A18 Pro chip and built
       | for Apple Intelligence, iPhone 16 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro Max are
       | the most advanced iPhone models we've ever made," said Greg
       | Joswiak_
       | 
       | Was hoping for: "We peaked last year, this iPhone is slightly
       | worse in all dimensions compared to last year."
       | 
       | Disappointed.
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | i clipped the 5 mins on apple intelligence here for those
       | interested https://x.com/swyx/status/1833231875537850659
       | 
       | notes:
       | 
       | - photos/album search now includes video understanding, which imo
       | seems very good from the first 2 examples they showed. includes
       | scroll to exact time of the moment you describe.
       | 
       | - Mail and Notifications will show summaries instead of str[:x]
       | 
       | - Siri now knows iPhone, becomes the ultimate manual on how to
       | use the increasingly complicated iOS 18. and can read your texts
       | (!) to suggest actions with Personal Context Understanding (also
       | it will try to advertise apple tv shows to you... i'm SURE it
       | will be totally objective and aligned to your preferences
       | amirite)
       | 
       | - new iphone 16 camera control button is PRIME real estate -
       | notice how OpenAI/ChatGPT is now next to Google search, and both
       | are secondary clicks to Apple's visual search, which comes first
       | 
       | - camera adds events to calendar!
       | 
       | - "all done on device" and on cloud (though craig doesnt say that
       | haha)
       | 
       | overall i think insanely good ideas on ai + phone integrations.
        
         | schmidtleonard wrote:
         | This is good but... all I wanted for Christmas was anti-spam
         | that didn't suck donkey balls. Sigh.
        
           | callalex wrote:
           | They don't prevent spam abuse through their app push
           | notifications, and don't even offer a way to report bad
           | behavior. They are pro-spam.
        
             | swyx wrote:
             | i undersatnd i might come across as an apple shill/fanboi
             | here but just pointing out that its fairly easy to punish
             | any abusive app by killing their notifs and apple does
             | sometimes make it easy to do that by letting u go straight
             | to settings to kill the notif (i'm not conscious of when it
             | does that but i think it does?)
        
               | callalex wrote:
               | No I can't. Here's an example: my security system app
               | sends me push notifications when there is motion detected
               | at times and places where there shouldn't be motion. I
               | need these critical ("time sensitive" in Apple-ese)
               | notifications. It also helpfully sends me random
               | "SUBSCRIBE TO SOME ADD-ON SERVICE, 50% OFF SALE THIS
               | WEEK" at all hours of the day and night. Sure I could rip
               | out my entire security system and replace it but that's a
               | lot of physical labor and wasted hardware.
               | 
               | Another example is my air filter. It's nice to get a
               | reminder when it's time to change the filter since it's
               | so infrequent, but I can't get that notification without
               | also getting spammed with "news" about new machines I
               | should buy. Apple actively enables this behavior while
               | claiming that spam is against their terms of service.
               | 
               | They are clearly working for the spammers, not the user,
               | because they profit off of their cut.
        
               | samatman wrote:
               | This can always be turned off using in-app settings. It's
               | an App Store requirement. Note: in-app settings, not
               | general settings for the app. Check. It's there.
               | 
               | > _Make sure people can manage their notification
               | settings within your app. In addition to requesting
               | permission to send informational or marketing
               | notifications, you must also provide an in-app settings
               | screen that lets people change their choice. For
               | guidance, see Settings._
               | 
               | https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-
               | guideline...
        
           | gffrd wrote:
           | Did you say spam?? Boy have we got the thing for you!
           | 
           | Take a picture of a restaurant? Hey, did you know it's a
           | place you can make a reservation at?
           | 
           | Your friend mentions a song offhand? Psst ... wanna play it
           | now?
           | 
           | Don't forget about how your cousin talked about that AppleTV+
           | series!
        
             | gffrd wrote:
             | Joking aside, I'm very curious how (or if) this gets
             | implemented in a way that doesn't isn't suffocating.
        
               | schmidtleonard wrote:
               | I quite like AppleTV's content choices, but I am not
               | looking forward to getting shilled on it. Again. In
               | between the other spam that they don't block. Ahhhhhg!
               | 
               | ("Get an Android?" Yeah, I hear you, I switch ecosystems
               | in anger with every phone, which is why I am so keenly
               | aware of how badly Apple's anti-spam sucks -- but also
               | why I am not over the moon at the prospect of my next
               | switch: I know where the Android skeletons are buried,
               | although hope springs eternal.)
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | > "all done on device" and on cloud
         | 
         | The real indicator for me is: how many of these features are
         | not available in the EU due to privacy concerns. Do we know
         | that?
        
           | bengale wrote:
           | It's all Apple Intelligence and that's not coming to the EU
           | currently.
        
             | akmarinov wrote:
             | They said France next year, so i guess they're working
             | through it
        
               | manmal wrote:
               | I think they say French (the language), but that might be
               | for people outside the EU. German is notably missing from
               | their list, though it's a bigger market for Apple than
               | French.
        
           | a13n wrote:
           | lots of the US has similar legislation to GDPR at this point,
           | e.g CCPA
        
           | eptcyka wrote:
           | Privacy concerns? They're just trying to bully the EU.
           | There's no legal or technical reason iOS 18's remote access
           | features wouldn't work in EU, but alas, they do not.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _no legal or technical reason iOS 18 's remote access
             | features wouldn't work in EU_
             | 
             | How do you know that? (How much of your net worth are you
             | willing to bet on it?)
             | 
             | Between GDPR, the DMA and now the AI Act, there is a _lot_
             | of unique regulatory cross section that Apple has in the
             | EU. It would be surprising if there weren 't additional
             | legal checks it had to do, internally and on its suppliers,
             | before launching a product or feature in the EU.
        
               | eptcyka wrote:
               | Because the same exact tech, remote desktop access on
               | macOS, has been working fine for years. That's how I know
               | this has nothing to do with DMA, GDPR and the AI act.
               | Yes, there might be AI features that are gatekept due to
               | DMA and GDPR, cool, that is kind of understandable. But
               | they also threw a hissy fit and excluded the EU from
               | having lots of unrelated functionality. Or, maybe,
               | they're really doing something horribly wrong if they
               | can't be in compliance with GDPR when sharing a screen of
               | your phone on your macbook.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _the same exact tech, remote desktop access on macOS,
               | has been working fine for years. That 's how I know this
               | has nothing to do with DMA_
               | 
               | Apple just got dinged under the DMA [1][2]. The text of
               | the law may not have changed, but the reality of its
               | meaning has.
               | 
               | > _they 're really doing something horribly wrong if they
               | can't be in compliance with GDPR_
               | 
               | The point is verifying you are in compliance with a law
               | has costs. Plenty of start-ups, for instance, are better
               | off geoblocking jurisdictions they don't have the
               | resources to comply with but don't want to accidentally
               | do something illegal in. Not because they think they're
               | violating anything. But because it isn't worth losing (a)
               | nimbleness over or (b) future access to. (Common ones
               | being the EU, China and India.) Apple isn't a start-up.
               | But they probably don't want their design team to be half
               | staffed with lawyers either.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-
               | announces-chang...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/
               | BEUC-X-...
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | The Mac is not classified as a "gatekeeper"
        
               | DidYaWipe wrote:
               | Nor should Apple be. Apple is a gatekeeper to one thing:
               | its own app store. That's why lumping Apple in with the
               | rest of "big tech" is ignorant.
        
               | runako wrote:
               | DMA allows EU regulators to designate certain platforms
               | as gatekeepers. Platforms that are designated gatekeepers
               | are subject to different requirements under EU law than
               | those that are not designated gatekeepers. The EU
               | designated iOS as a gatekeeper[1], but did not do the
               | same for MacOS.
               | 
               | So while you are correct that there is no technical
               | barrier, you are incorrect that they are the same under
               | EU regulation. Involving EU regulators in product design
               | for designated gatekeepers was the entire point of the
               | law, so this is the desired effect. Regulators want the
               | flexibility to e.g. work with the gatekeeper to design
               | feature modifications, like the default browser selection
               | screen[2], for other aspects of designated gatekeeper
               | platforms.
               | 
               | One can choose to see this as good or bad, but this is
               | clearly the intent of the law.
               | 
               | 1 - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en
               | /ip_23_...
               | 
               | 2 - https://developer.apple.com/support/browser-choice-
               | screen/#:....
        
             | daedrdev wrote:
             | Its straight up unclear what compliance means in the EU, by
             | design as they literally decided to figure out what the law
             | they already passed later
        
             | fundad wrote:
             | I don't even think it's a question anymore, they opted out
             | of new features on non-European handsets. Gemini is
             | probably already on Nokia phones for all we know.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _real indicator for me is: how many of these features are
           | not available in the EU due to privacy concerns_
           | 
           | Lawyers and lobbyists are still getting their heads around
           | the EU's AI Act [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/high-level-summary/
        
           | jcz_nz wrote:
           | EU ruled that Apple cannot link components. This suggests
           | that Apple would need to provide API's to allow competitors
           | to be listed alongside the "Apple AI", or any device to
           | enable screen remote control (ala remote iPhone control). If
           | you're a dev, you might appreciate why that is an absolute
           | PIA from a software perspective. Since they want to bring
           | these features to market ASAP, launching now and foregoing
           | the EU is a sensible step. Huxley sends his regards, really.
        
         | panarky wrote:
         | "Insanely good ideas"?
         | 
         | With the months of nonstop and over-the-top hype of "Apple
         | Intelligence" these all seem underwhelming.
         | 
         | Even in the idealized world of demoware there's no killer
         | feature, not to mention that none of it is even available to
         | real customers yet.
         | 
         | I was expecting something only Apple could do with their vast
         | ecosystem of IP and partnerships, the must-have cool new thing
         | that would stimulate a leap in demand for iPhone.
         | 
         | It's hard to see how any of this is enough to trigger a new
         | upgrade cycle instead of just waiting until battery life goes
         | to shit or the screen cracks so you have to upgrade.
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | Semantic search was always going to be the killer feature of
           | this AI boom. But it's just a cherry on top of existing
           | software and requires training users to expand what they
           | think is possible.
        
             | wwweston wrote:
             | As far as I can tell, AI is one of several features that
             | have actively made search worse. There are a handful of
             | novel things it does well enough, but I'd rather engage
             | those in their own LLM sandbox than have the facilities
             | formerly available in a searchbox replaced with a guessbox.
        
               | teaearlgraycold wrote:
               | What kind of search has it made worse? I'm not talking
               | about Google search. I'm talking about searching your
               | personal collection of emails or photos or text messages.
        
               | jimbokun wrote:
               | I would guess is you're probably in the minority with
               | that opinion.
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | 1) i am as ready to shit on apple and siri as the next guy,
           | but imo the HN cynicism is overbearing here. apple isnt
           | building to impress internet neckbeards like us. they are
           | building for the normies. features they understand
           | intuitively and cannot fuck up. maybe wait til it gets in the
           | normies hands to judge. ~none of us here know what its like
           | to work on a hardware/software platform for >1 billion?
           | people.
           | 
           | 2) i actually do think dedicated visual intelligence button
           | IS a killer feature. suddenly phone is ai's view into the
           | world. yes probably v1 today will disappoint. but 5 years
           | from now the kids will laugh when we say we had to take
           | photos and upload them to an app back in our day. or manually
           | enter in any information from the real world into our
           | calendars and emails and texts.
        
             | tsunamifury wrote:
             | Highly doubt normies give a crap about any of this.
        
               | consteval wrote:
               | What? How could you possibly say that? They can take a
               | picture of something and then auto make a note, or a
               | reminder, or an email, or find out what it is.
               | 
               | Normies struggle with the nuance of devices. They
               | understand what they want, they don't understand steps,
               | like start here then do this, then go here and copy this,
               | then go there. This SKIPS all the steps. This is huge for
               | them, but (probably) just mildly convenient for others.
        
               | hobermallow wrote:
               | >find out what it is
               | 
               | Google Googles did this 13 years ago
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Goggles
               | 
               | It remains interesting to me how much we have been able
               | to do, already, with technology. But discoverability,
               | walled gardens, and <hand
               | waving>marketing/positioning/hype</hand waving> have
               | obscured awareness/adoption.
        
               | motoxpro wrote:
               | Asking when your moms flight gets in, to pull up the
               | picture of you and your partner on vacation at the beach
               | or to take a picture of a restaurant from afar at 5x zoom
               | and get reviews is insanely nice.
               | 
               | This is the perfect use of AI, at least for me.
        
             | randmeerkat wrote:
             | > apple isnt building to impress internet neckbeards like
             | us. they are building for the normies. features they
             | understand intuitively and cannot fuck up. maybe wait til
             | it gets in the normies hands to judge.
             | 
             | Apple has lost its way, just look at how the "normies" and
             | the "neckbeards" responded to the Vision Pro. Apple doesn't
             | know how to innovate anymore, just how to market, and mass
             | produce things, which is honestly good enough to keep
             | making money for now.
        
               | lurking_swe wrote:
               | you're suggesting apple planned to sell a $3.5k headset
               | to normies? That doesn't make sense. Sure, many normies
               | had an opinion on it. Most normies never tried it so i
               | don't care what they think. It's like asking a normie 20
               | years ago about what driving an electric car is like.
               | 
               | Vision pro was an over-hyped dev kit that offers a taste
               | of the future. That's it.
        
               | jdsully wrote:
               | They have classes full of "normies" trying them out every
               | time I pass by my local store. Sure looks like its meant
               | to be something other than a dev kit to me.
        
               | Terretta wrote:
               | > _Apple has lost its way, just look at how the "normies"
               | and the "neckbeards" responded to the Vision Pro._
               | 
               | Such people are likely confused. The AVP makes sense as a
               | high end POC and dev kit. It takes a minute for a new
               | modality of computing to make sense to people, even for
               | Apple's own devs to figure out how people can use it, to
               | iterate the OS and default app suite for a few years.
        
             | najork wrote:
             | Agreed, and Apple's differentiator has always been seamless
             | integration. With the iPhone, they own the boundary layer
             | between the physical and digital worlds. It's an obvious
             | place to introduce AI for daily tasks without requiring any
             | behavioral changes from the users.
        
             | zombiwoof wrote:
             | I agree but all the normies I know say Siri is shit or just
             | have it disabled
             | 
             | They aren't that dumb to think calling it now Apple
             | intelligence powered will make Siri work
        
             | awfulneutral wrote:
             | As a "tech person" I feel like we've all been told for 20+
             | years that we can't have UX that makes any sense to us, or
             | lets us do simple things we want to do, because we are
             | power users and software has to cater to some imagined
             | demographic of incredibly dumb people who can't understand
             | basic computing metaphors. It can get frustrating.
        
               | jimbokun wrote:
               | Which would be fine if they easily allowed us to write
               | software and scripts for our own devices.
        
               | kridsdale3 wrote:
               | I'm a Growth Engineer. What that actually means is "make
               | the UI so incredibly simple people who are functionally
               | illiterate somehow make their way to the place you want
               | them to be so you can eventually monetize them".
               | 
               | I view users moving through interfaces in a mass
               | abstracted form like electrical or hydrological currents.
               | My job is to widen the pipes.
        
               | awfulneutral wrote:
               | Well, cynically that fits with my own experience. :) But
               | I don't know if I'd say it's simpler, just that you don't
               | have any choices. For me Apple UX often feels complicated
               | and I can't figure out how to do what I want, or figure
               | out what is going to happen when I accept some dialog
               | they want me to accept. But I guess I end up going
               | through the pipe eventually, out of frustration.
               | 
               | My impression of my non-tech friends is that they aren't
               | too dumb to follow instructions, they just don't enjoy
               | operating a computer like I do, so they are more okay
               | with their choices being restricted if they don't have to
               | waste time doing something they find boring.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | > With the months of nonstop and over-the-top hype of "Apple
           | Intelligence" these all seem underwhelming.
           | 
           | None of that was coming from Apple, though. I don't think
           | they can be held responsible for hype that gets put on them.
           | 
           | IMO these are all solid moves into AI integration without
           | getting carried away by hype and doing things that will have
           | very middling results.
        
             | DidYaWipe wrote:
             | True. All the whining was coming from lazy "industry
             | observers" who never mustered up an example of what,
             | exactly, they expected Apple to be doing with "AI."
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | Yeah all of that annoying whining was from them. No one
               | other than "lazy" ""industry observers"" were expecting
               | "so-called AI" stuff from Apple.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | We just watched an Apple event where they discuss Apple
             | Intelligence.
             | 
             | My understanding is people knew Apple Intelligence existed
             | before this event.
             | 
             | Is it accurate to say Apple wasn't involved at all in
             | touting it? All external parties? Sounds wrong to my ear
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | It was brought up in their software yearly event - WWDC.
               | It was actually a pretty big part of that keynote, even
               | as it was light on details.
        
               | swyx wrote:
               | idk if its that light on details tbh:
               | 
               | - https://buttondown.com/ainews/archive/ainews-talaria-
               | apples-...
               | 
               | - https://buttondown.com/ainews/archive/ainews-apple-
               | intellige...
        
             | zombiwoof wrote:
             | Apple called AI "Apple intelligence". It's on them to live
             | up to that smug claim. They didn't
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of
           | actually-useful and reliable AI features at your fingertips.
           | This is what everyone imagined computers would be, since I
           | don't know... the 80s?
        
             | manquer wrote:
             | Nice to have sure, enough to consider spending upwards of
             | $1000 on upgrade? don't think so.
        
             | DidYaWipe wrote:
             | Siri (for all the absurd whining about it) met those
             | expectations 10 years ago.
        
             | Mainsail wrote:
             | Your comment reminded me of the Apple Knowledge Navigator.
             | 
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umJsITGzXd0
        
               | robterrell wrote:
               | Great opportunity for someone to make a side by side
               | comparison video & go viral.
        
           | concinds wrote:
           | They showed up the full Apple Intelligence featureset at WWDC
           | months ago. This was a shorter recap.
        
             | gffrd wrote:
             | Thanks for noting this. I was surprised how little it
             | featured into today's announcement, so this fills in the
             | picture.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Technically it's an iOS 18 feature rather than a phone
               | feature, except the only previous phone model with the
               | hardware for all of it is the iPhone 15 Pro, so it
               | doesn't really feel like an iOS 18 feature
        
           | DidYaWipe wrote:
           | Like what? People have been whining "where's the innovation"
           | for years about phones, totally ignoring the fact that this
           | is a mature product category.
           | 
           | Where's the innovation in word processors?
           | 
           | At this point, we're often talking about regression. Apple
           | removed the audio output from its best-selling music player.
           | It removed TouchID. It removed the SIM slot.
           | 
           | You know what would be "innovative?" Making a goddamned phone
           | that can withstand being used for its primary purpose. The
           | failure of the iPhone's design has been confirmed by millions
           | upon millions of people, who have concluded that they must
           | bury their "thin, elegant" phones in bulky, tacky cases. You
           | have to shake your head at Apple's breathless announcement of
           | NEW COLORS!!!! when the vast majority of them will never be
           | seen.
           | 
           | Then there's the fact that Apple ignores an entire market:
           | men who don't wear cargo pants all day every day. Maybe some
           | of us don't want to look like a schlub with a TV tray jammed
           | into his pocket (again, made even worse with a dumb case).
        
             | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
             | The moment you think a portable electronic system is a
             | mature product category is the moment you become 'old
             | guard'.
             | 
             | Edit: and currently, that looks to be you and the entire
             | iPhone engineering team
        
           | gffrd wrote:
           | > there's no killer feature
           | 
           | You know when you go to a restaurant and the menu is like 3
           | different cuisines, it's 12 pages, and each page has 20+
           | items?
           | 
           | The Intelligence section of the presentation felt a bit like
           | that.
           | 
           | Generally, I was surprised how lightly Intelligence featured
           | into the keynote: it wasn't a standalone talking point,
           | nothing on the Apple site talks to it directly. It's
           | conspicuous, given that they've dedicated hardware real
           | estate to it ... and the hype cycle.
        
             | unshavedyak wrote:
             | Didn't it have a pretty large thing on the keynote where it
             | was actually announced?
        
             | canucker2016 wrote:
             | No, Apple Intelligence is worse.
             | 
             | I go to a restaurant and look at the menu/see a commercial
             | on TV, I can usually order the item now (other than films).
             | 
             | Apple Intelligence - certain feature(s) (can't recall now)
             | are US-only in November, rolling out to other English-
             | speaking countries in December. No idea when non English-
             | speaking countries will get that feature.
             | 
             | Who knows what Apple Intelligence features are in the
             | device on day 1?
        
             | influx wrote:
             | I thought you were going to say the iPhone would be able to
             | load the QR code for that menu, summarize it, sort it by
             | ingredient or calories and give you a recommendation
             | without you having to read it... Now I'm kinda bummed out.
        
           | stronglikedan wrote:
           | Apple rarely ever innovates, so it's not surprising these new
           | features seem underwhelming. What Apple does best is to
           | perfect (others') existing ideas so that they work more much
           | more reliably than the competition. The number one pain point
           | of technology today is that hardly any of it consistently
           | works correctly more than 95% of the time. But when Apple
           | releases a feature, it works 99% of the time instead. That's
           | their key differentiator.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | >But when Apple releases a feature, it works 99% of the
             | time instead.
             | 
             | "You're holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs
        
           | conception wrote:
           | On device and not shared with advertisers is the Only Apple
           | can do part.
        
           | jimbokun wrote:
           | > photos/album search now includes video understanding, which
           | imo seems very good from the first 2 examples they showed.
           | includes scroll to exact time of the moment you describe.
           | 
           | This is a killer feature. Everyone can understand the
           | usefulness of just describing the video moment you want to
           | find. Digging through years worth of photos and videos
           | looking for that one specific moment can be a huge chore when
           | you want to show it to someone.
        
         | boringg wrote:
         | The part I am most interested in is how much of it is on device
         | and how much of your data is trained only on your own model vs
         | hovered up into a larger model.
         | 
         | On device, my own model. Great.
        
           | DidYaWipe wrote:
           | Totally. I am down for decreased dependence on connectivity
           | and remote servers.
        
         | llm_nerd wrote:
         | "- camera adds events to calendar!"
         | 
         | I'm on iOS 18.0 on my iPhone 15 Pro, rather that the 18.1 with
         | the "AI". Recently had an eye doctor appt for one of my
         | children and they scheduled a follow-up, giving me a little
         | card with the details. I was in a hurry so took a picture of it
         | intending to enter the calendar event later, and it immediately
         | pulled up a fully-filled in, completely accurate new calendar
         | event. Little affordance that is just so nice.
         | 
         | Indeed, in general the camera is getting...crazy. We have a
         | pair of Maine Coon kittens and every picture is tagged with
         | Maine Coon, despite the cats barely even coming into the
         | breed's features yet. Constantly amazed at the stuff the built
         | in camera is identifying.
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | oh so you're saying this is not an Apple Intelligence
           | feature? its a little hard to tell
        
             | m_mueller wrote:
             | It's Apple Intelligent, not Apple Intelligence! When are
             | you finally getting it! And no, we don't abbreviate it
             | ever! Look, a new button! _runs away_
        
             | llm_nerd wrote:
             | They have their big generative AI push with 18.1, broadly
             | called Apple Intelligence, but they've been building so
             | many AI inference features for a few iterations now, with
             | the camera and Photos getting loads of those additions.
             | Object detection, subject identification, text extraction,
             | etc, though this was the first time I've taken a picture of
             | an appointment card and had it automate extraction like
             | this.
             | 
             | I feel like loads of these features just quietly appear to
             | be randomly discovered by users.
             | 
             | So it's AI, but not the big hype stuff that gets most of
             | the attention.
        
           | pants2 wrote:
           | I have a hilarious list of animals that my cat has been
           | misclassified as by my iPhone. Everything from a beetle to a
           | nematode. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence in these
           | features!
        
             | kridsdale3 wrote:
             | Beetle and Nematode a perfect kitty names though.
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Yeah I took a photo of a weird moth in my house the other
           | day, and accidentally scrolled up the next day to realise
           | that the iPhone had categorised it as the exact species - a
           | Poplar Hawk Moth. I was stunned. Didn't even have to google
           | for 5 minutes, the camera already knew.
        
           | nashashmi wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | Anything that's going to recommend Apple TV shows (or any other
         | product) to me is an automatic turn-off. I'll keep all of Siri
         | off if I have to.
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | I have this sinking suspicion that the AI segment today was so
         | quick, so high level, and so future-tense ("Siri will be able
         | to..."), identical to the similar segment at WWDC; I have to
         | wonder how many of these features we'll actually see. I'm
         | getting vibes like the old "Facetime will be an open protocol"
         | promise; its like someone is making them do this, their soul
         | isn't in it, and for that reason they _still_ don 't have one
         | narrative for why I should care. Instead, they have a quickfire
         | list of twenty features, the titles of twenty epics from their
         | jira.
         | 
         | The iPhone 16's camera button will gain the ability to soft-
         | press to lock focus "later this year". Their software teams are
         | _so_ incredibly far behind, the new phone has literally one new
         | feature, a feature medically prescribed to induce drowsiness,
         | yet they can 't even get the software for it finished for
         | release.
        
           | zombiwoof wrote:
           | I think Apple will be the first to realize nobody wants to
           | pay for "ai features", and they are hella expensive to
           | support
        
         | baxuz wrote:
         | As someone whose mother tongue isn't English, and whose
         | residence isn't the US, apple intelligence is basically useless
         | to me. Like every other ai assistant gimmick out there.
        
         | melenaboija wrote:
         | > overall i think insanely good ideas on ai + phone
         | integrations.
         | 
         | Mmmmm, feels disappointing to me if that is all we get from a
         | multi trillion tech company + multi trillion technology
        
         | miguelrochefort wrote:
         | I predicted those features weeks ago [1], but I still feel they
         | could do so much more. If anything, their implementation feels
         | like a rushed afterthought.
         | 
         | In their demos, they use the action button to capture an
         | ambient song for Shazam, the power button to capture a voice
         | command for Siri, and the camera button for an image for Visual
         | Intelligence. All 3 captures should be performed using the same
         | button.
         | 
         | And screenshots still require pressing 2 buttons
         | simultaneously. Unless you want to share your screen with Siri
         | in which case it's the power button...
         | 
         | People are going to use this button as a voice recorder, and
         | Apple will announce native support next year.
         | 
         | [1] https://miguelrochefort.com/blog/capture-button
        
         | xavdid wrote:
         | > Mail and Notifications will show summaries instead of str[:x]
         | 
         | While it's true that the first x characters of an email don't
         | always have the most important bits, they're never _wrong_.
         | It's always exactly what's in the email.
         | 
         | I'm worried about cases like this [0], where a summary is
         | inaccurate or misleading. It may not happen often, but it's
         | possible, so I have to be a little skeptical of every summary.
         | Though I can see where AI summaries are a plus, the move from
         | 100% accurate to <100% feels like a big downgrade.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://mastodon.macstories.net/@johnvoorhees/11288700482217...
        
       | bartekpacia wrote:
       | The thing I liked the most about this event was the beautiful
       | places where the presenters were. Outlook on Golden Gate, Coit
       | Tower, Palace of Fine Arts, De Young... loved that!
        
         | heystefan wrote:
         | Huh, I thought some of those were green screen.
        
       | siamese_puff wrote:
       | I don't even click these anymore.
        
       | gibsonf1 wrote:
       | I hope all the LLM features can be disabled.
        
       | flowerlad wrote:
       | All I want is for Apple to fix speech recognition in iMessage.
       | Not sure if that's in this release. They demo'd AI text review
       | and rewrite but not LLM speech recognition.
       | 
       | I currently use ChatGPT for it's accurate speech recognition then
       | copy/paste into iMessage.
        
         | coder543 wrote:
         | In my experience, iOS 18 makes it better, but no, it is still
         | not as good as Whisper Large, which is what OpenAI uses behind
         | the scenes.
         | 
         | You can run smaller Whisper models on your phone through
         | various third party apps, and those options work well too.
         | (Trying to run Whisper Large even on the iPhone 15 Pro Max is
         | asking too much... it works, but only barely.)
        
           | flowerlad wrote:
           | Looks like I can skip iPhone 15 then. Will upgrade when it
           | can run Whisper Large locally... hopefully iPhone 20 or
           | sooner.
        
       | EcommerceFlow wrote:
       | ATT is offering $1,000 trade in for Iphone 12 - 15, an amazing
       | deal for those with slightly older iphones. Obviously it pays off
       | over 36 months, but I don't see myself switching anytime soon so
       | it works out. I think the others have similar deals too.
        
         | thimabi wrote:
         | It seems too good to be true. Surely they are offering _up to_
         | $1,000 trade-in for iPhones beginning with the iPhone 12,
         | right?
        
           | asadotzler wrote:
           | Correct, _up_ _to_ , which translates to about $200 for your
           | iPhone 12.
        
         | HeavenFox wrote:
         | imho these high trade in offers are basically carrier-
         | subsidized phones in new clothes: in exchange of a discount,
         | you agree to stick with the carrier and phone for the next 3
         | years. And the discount may not be that great! You can get
         | plenty of money if you sell the phone yourself.
        
       | jron wrote:
       | Can I install my own applications on it yet?
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | > Featuring a new 48MP Fusion camera with a faster quad-pixel
       | sensor that enables 4K120 fps video recording in Dolby Vision,
       | these new Pro models achieve the highest resolution and frame-
       | rate combination ever available on iPhone
       | 
       | Every iPhone generation makes YouTube video quality slightly
       | better as it's what a lot of people use. That plus social media.
       | 
       | Camera quality is quite amazing these days
        
         | parker-3461 wrote:
         | Given that they had to upgrade to a new camera sensor to get
         | faster readout speed, I'm wondering if they actually changed to
         | a better sensor with improved pixel size and light sensitivity.
         | 
         | I have read the official press release but it seems like there
         | is no mentions of this.
         | 
         | Might need to wait for the ifixit tear down in ~10 days.
         | 
         | Edit 1: there has been some discussions that eventually the
         | Sony IMX903 would be used, but not sure when that will actually
         | eventuate.
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | A big part of it for content creators is stuff like this
           | 
           | > You can capture 4K 120 fps ProRes and log recordings to an
           | external storage device -- a big plus for pro editing
           | workflows that demand a high frame rate and colour grading
           | control.
           | 
           | Might make a dent in mirrorless sales, just w/o the lenses
        
       | shadowtree wrote:
       | Well, Gurman was right - the 16 phones will not trigger a big
       | upgrade cycle.
       | 
       | 17 might, as it would indicate Apple is taking a breath.
       | 
       | Or, of course, we'll never get a supercycle again till someone
       | iphones the iPhone.
        
       | spike021 wrote:
       | I have a 12 Pro and was thinking I'd upgrade. Usually I'd opt for
       | the Pro tier but this cycle I think I'll actually go for the
       | regular 16. There just doesn't seem to be enough there for
       | someone like me. Which is maybe the point? I liked having the
       | better camera system but these days they show all this extra
       | stuff I don't use my phone camera for anyway. I have a Sony a7iii
       | for the fancy stuff.
        
       | UniverseHacker wrote:
       | Disappointed again there is no small version... I can't figure
       | out why anyone wants to carry these massive phones everywhere. To
       | me the major advantage of mobile tech should be it getting
       | smaller and lighter each generation. Especially since nowadays it
       | can wirelessly use whatever big screen happens to already be
       | wherever you are anyways.
       | 
       | To me the old iphones with 4" screens were a good start, and I
       | was hoping they'd get smaller and lighter as the tech got
       | better... an iPhone 5 was 3.95oz, now iphones weigh 6-7 ounces.
        
       | maxglute wrote:
       | Finally. More buttons. I miss those 5 way toggle switches on old
       | gadgets. The wheels you can flick up, down, hold, and press.
        
       | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
       | Meh... it's still too heavy, too large, and the camera sticks out
       | too far.
        
       | callalex wrote:
       | The biggest innovation they could have at this point would be the
       | price, but that will never happen.
        
         | lysace wrote:
         | Gotta preserve that 50% profit margin (ish).
        
         | adamwk wrote:
         | It happens every year? Just buy the iPhone 15, which will drop
         | in price next week.
        
       | pil0u wrote:
       | Should I replace my iPhone 7 with this one?
        
       | jmmcd wrote:
       | You see a cute dog in the park, and click the special button to
       | find out what breed it is - amazing!
       | 
       | But I know what Steve Jobs would have said to this. Just go up
       | and ask the girl what breed her dog is, and get to know her.
        
       | iteratethis wrote:
       | I'm conflicted.
       | 
       | It's absolutely stunning what smartphones can do these days and
       | Apple makes an excellent product. It feels ungrateful and cynical
       | to keep calling new models "boring".
       | 
       | The reality though is that normie needs were accomplished several
       | generations ago. I'll use my girlfriend as a sample of such user.
       | 
       | She can't tell the difference between LCD and OLED nor would she
       | notice Pro-motion.
       | 
       | You can add a million features to the camera app but she opens it
       | and presses the shutter. Her only awareness of features is when
       | she accidentally enables one and doesn't know how to get back.
       | 
       | You could set her back 8 iOS versions and she probably wouldn't
       | notice. Because she uses none of the hundreds of features
       | released since. Not because she dislikes them, she doesn't know
       | they even exist.
       | 
       | All the spectacular advances in computing power are lost on her
       | as this makes zero difference for the Facebook cat video group
       | and Pinterest.
       | 
       | You might assume my girlfriend is perhaps lowly educated or just
       | not tech savvy. Wrong, she's highly educated, even works in IT,
       | although not in an engineering role. It's not that she's unable
       | to understand the advances, she simply doesn't care.
       | 
       | It's becoming ever harder to justify new models for normies.
       | Pretty much they buy the new one when the battery of their
       | current one runs bad, typically every 3-4 years.
       | 
       | I think this is also why Apple put many Pro features into the
       | regular model. Most people don't buy the pro and they're
       | desperate for selling points in the regular model.
       | 
       | If the iPhone would have true user-swappable batteries, their
       | business would collapse.
        
         | GenerocUsername wrote:
         | Apple is a trillion dollar battery company.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | The joke I want to make is they make phones that are as
           | fragile as glass and that's why people replace them so
           | often... but they actually make phones out of glass that are
           | stupidly fragile. It's equally stupid that you have to buy
           | this thing and put a protective case on it that increases
           | it's size x%.
           | 
           | Why is the back of my phone glass. Why does the front of my
           | phone have 0 protection from the glass hitting whatever it is
           | dropped on?
           | 
           | This has to be on purpose. Or maybe in an opposite direction,
           | their stock would likely drop a considerable amount if they
           | made a phone you could drop on concrete with only minor
           | blemishes.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | It's because the alternative is plastic. Hard to sell a
             | phone for 1000 dollars when its made out of plastic.
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | Ceramic back? Titanium? Diamond? Anything but a glass
               | back please. Why not even the option? A bezel around the
               | rim?
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | They're not making phones. They make vending machines that
             | go in your pocket.
        
             | bouke wrote:
             | MagSafe
        
             | nemothekid wrote:
             | I have been using the iPhone without a case since the
             | iPhone 6. I think the fragility of iPhone displays is
             | incredibly overblown. The idea that Apple is purposefully
             | making the displays "weak" is unfounded.
             | 
             | People buy cases because they _feel_ their $1,000 slab of
             | metal must be protected.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | Also because the camera bulge means the phone can't lay
               | flat on a flat surface without a case.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Original iPhone SE was peak smartphone.
               | 
               | Same camera hardware as the flagship 6s, but more
               | comfortable to use one-handed and the camera lens was
               | flush with the back.
        
               | veber-alex wrote:
               | I shared your mentality.
               | 
               | I didn't get a case when I bought my 15 pro.
               | 
               | For two weeks I was without a case, dropped the phone two
               | or three times.
               | 
               | Screen got scratched in 3 places and the paint chipped
               | from around the bazel.
               | 
               | Went into a store and got a case.
        
               | treflop wrote:
               | Hit concrete in the right corner on an iPhone and it will
               | break.
               | 
               | For me, it's just not worth it. Had iPhones break while
               | on trips and it's just an absolute hassle dealing with
               | replacements, especially when there aren't Apple stores
               | for hours, while I can just put on a protector and done.
               | 
               | (Plus I think a clear case looks really nice and brings a
               | retro Casio vibe.)
        
             | gizmo wrote:
             | The iPhone is not fragile. It's astonishing how sturdy it
             | is. Even without a case you can drop it on concrete and
             | most of the time you get nothing more than a scuff. With a
             | case a phone can take an absurd amount of abuse. Many
             | people don't even bother with a case anymore. I suspect
             | people would be a lot more careful with their iPhone if
             | they shared your opinion.
        
           | israrkhan wrote:
           | 3.36 Trillion as of today.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | > All the spectacular advances in computing power are lost on
         | her as this makes zero difference for the Facebook cat video
         | group and Pinterest.
         | 
         | Gonna disagree with this one. Tell me, does using an iPhone
         | today feel significantly faster than the top model 2-3 years
         | ago or even 10 years ago? Does the battery last a lot longer
         | than it did back then? Apple certainly claims this is the case
         | in their marketing every year. The answer however is no,
         | because with every increase in computing power and battery
         | size, the OS and all the apps on it get that much more resource
         | hungry. The entire ecosystem is designed to get users to _need_
         | to upgrade every ~2-3 years, otherwise they will start to feel
         | the lag.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _does using an iPhone today feel significantly faster than
           | one from 2-3 years ago?_
           | 
           | Yes. Absolutely. We just forget that opening an app--or
           | restarting the device, or recovering from airplane mode--was
           | an action that incurred a noticeable delay once and does not
           | tend to anymore.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Sorry but you just contradicted yourself.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _you just contradicted yourself_
               | 
               | Where?
        
               | 0xFF0123 wrote:
               | I assume their logic is that if we have forgotten what
               | that feels like then it doesn't in practice feel any
               | different.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | Ah, memories of RISC OS from school in the 90s. Instant
             | boot, instead of the minute or so for Win95 and System
             | 7.5.5...
        
             | jen729w wrote:
             | As an iPhone 12 mini daily-driver who also owns a 15 Pro
             | Max (which I use exclusively to shoot video), I have to
             | disagree.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _an iPhone 12 mini daily-driver who also owns a 15 Pro
               | Max (which I use exclusively to shoot video), I have to
               | disagree_
               | 
               | Out of curiosity, where? I went from the 12 something to
               | the 15 Pro and the speed in connecting to networks and
               | rendering pages was memorable. Now I don't notice it
               | anymore; the old phone is just slow.
        
               | jen729w wrote:
               | In fairness I'm not a heavy iPhone user. Hence still
               | having a 12 mini. It's rare (~never) that I'm 'browsing
               | the web' on it. If I'm in Safari it's for some functional
               | reason and I'm in and out.
               | 
               | Still, I can't say I've ever thought, _jeez, this thing
               | is slow to render a page_.
               | 
               | > the speed in connecting to networks
               | 
               | I'm not even sure what you mean. Connecting to 4G? a)
               | mine's practically instant and b) how often are you doing
               | this?!
               | 
               | (Not being snarky there. Genuinely don't understand how
               | this is a thing someone would notice. But you may have a
               | different use-case to me.)
        
             | ajross wrote:
             | Is opening an app on an iPhone 13 actually noticeably slow?
             | What you're saying is true if you go back to a distant
             | enough horizon, of course, but... 2-3 years? I don't really
             | see it.
             | 
             | I'm on the other side of the fence, and just replaced a
             | Pixel 7 with a 9. And quite frankly I bought it because I
             | was Supposed To. I'm sure there are benchmarks to say
             | otherwise, but routine use is basically instant on both and
             | absent a professional desire I quite frankly would have
             | just waited until I broke it.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | Mostly that's because RAM has increased enough to let the
             | OS do things while multiple apps stay resident. Phones from
             | 5 years ago were still handheld supercomputers, just
             | hobbled by limited memory and code bloat.
        
             | jdthedisciple wrote:
             | Completely wrong. As an iPhone 12 User there is 0 perceived
             | difference to iPhone 15 in day to day usage performance.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Completely wrong. As an iPhone 12 User there is 0
               | perceived difference to iPhone 15 in day to day usage
               | performance_
               | 
               | This obviously revolves around what one perceives. Data
               | speeds on mobile are objectively faster on their newer
               | devices [1]. But we normalise those speeds without
               | needing additional cruft; waiting for a page to load just
               | ceases to be a thing one notices except when it doesn't
               | work.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.opensignal.com/2023/09/07/users-should-
               | upgrade-t...
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | Eh, iPhones are pretty fast. I think a lot of older model
           | just need a battery replacement. I was using an iPhone 6S
           | until last year and it was certainly slower than the latest
           | models, but not dramatically so. The bigger difference was
           | the camera quality which has improved dramatically in 7
           | years.
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | I agree that this effect exists but it's not as strong as it
           | was in early generation models.
        
           | jwells89 wrote:
           | I've noticed overall improvements in responsiveness as well
           | as the number of apps that can stay in memory without some
           | getting evicted, though the latter is most noticeable when
           | using smaller indie sorts of apps (think Ivory for Mastodon,
           | Narwhal for Reddit, etc) which are on average built more
           | efficiently and aren't dragging around a metric ton of
           | tracking garbage.
        
         | keyle wrote:
         | Agree with what you wrote. That said quality of life things
         | such as pro motion and increase battery life are noticeable.
         | 
         | Scrolling at 120hz is butter smooth and improves the UX quite a
         | lot. While battery life is peace of mind that you don't have to
         | worry about.
         | 
         | What ticks me off is OpenAI integration in my private life. I
         | really like chatGPT as a daily google box but I hate the idea
         | of it meddling in my private information. That's a big no no.
        
           | veber-alex wrote:
           | So don't enable it.
           | 
           | ChatGPT is optional.
        
             | keyle wrote:
             | I wasn't sure, thanks
        
             | Gud wrote:
             | Until it isn't.
             | 
             | Try using CarPlay without enabling Siri.
        
               | _ph_ wrote:
               | Siri doesn't use ChatGPT
        
               | yunwal wrote:
               | The parent comment is saying once an optional feature
               | gains enough traction, Apple will make it mandatory.
        
               | shuckles wrote:
               | Apple very reasonably has decided using your phone while
               | driving requires voice support. It's not about
               | "traction."
        
               | kridsdale3 wrote:
               | My car's mic is dogshit, so this has not been a problem
               | at all for me for a decade. What's so critical about car
               | Siri?
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >If the iPhone would have true user-swappable batteries, their
         | business would collapse.
         | 
         | I was with you up to there. Do you really think that people are
         | so lazy or stupid that they wouldn't go to any of the zillion
         | battery replacement places (including Apple Stores) rather than
         | buying a new $1K-$1.5K device?
        
           | digital_sawzall wrote:
           | I have a 2015 Macbook pro and an iphone 11 that works great
           | save for that they don't hold a charge.
           | 
           | I would happily spend a several hundreds dollars to save
           | these and continue to use them, or give one to my parents or
           | kid, but I can't find someone who will do a battery
           | replacement. I live in Austin TX and have called 3-5
           | different apple repair shops. If I can't find someone to do
           | it in a city with the second largest Apple office in the
           | world, I don't think anyone else will be able to.
        
             | riley_dog wrote:
             | Apple will replace the battery on your iphone for $89 and
             | your macbook for $249.
             | 
             | Source: https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-
             | replacement and https://support.apple.com/mac/repair
        
               | HomeDeLaPot wrote:
               | Following the link on the Mac page, it looks like Apple
               | will not repair a 2015 Macbook Pro:
               | 
               | https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772
               | 
               | > Obsolete: ... MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early
               | 2015), MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)...
        
               | 39896880 wrote:
               | >Mac laptops may be eligible for an extended battery-only
               | repair period for up to 10 years from when the product
               | was last distributed for sale, subject to parts
               | availability.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | Yeah they started gluing in the batteries to the macbooks
             | around then. RIP.
        
             | bfung wrote:
             | https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement
             | 
             | Fill in the form and send your iphone 11 in for battery
             | replacement.
             | 
             | I've done this a few times w/different iphone models, works
             | great, no fuss. The several days w/o the phone is nice
             | forced social media detox.
        
             | ecliptik wrote:
             | I've replaced the battery on my 2015 MacBook Pro with one
             | from iFixit [1]. They're a huge pain though, since they're
             | glued to the inside of the case and requires using a
             | solvent to get the battery out.
             | 
             | It has held a charge for the last few years well. The other
             | issue I had with a laptop this old was cooling. Ended up
             | swapping out the fans and heatsink/heatpipe and am
             | expecting to get another couple years out of it.
             | 
             | 1. https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-pro-15-retina-
             | late-2...
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | The thinnest teflon turner worked fine for me, no solvent
               | needed. 2 TiB nvme disk worked fine too with OLPC MacOS
               | 14
        
             | 39896880 wrote:
             | If you're in South Austin, the Apple Store in Barton Creek
             | Mall will help you. For North Austin, it's in The Domain.
        
           | phil21 wrote:
           | Yes. Because it's a giant pita to drop your phone off and be
           | without it for an indefinite period of time (if something
           | goes wrong). For a device worth a couple hundred dollars it
           | typically makes more sense to trade it in and simply upgrade.
           | 
           | Especially if you are paranoid and refuse to hand a third
           | party your phone full of private data. If I need to wipe and
           | restore that is a huge time sink I'd rather future proof
           | against.
           | 
           | It's the pain and uncertainty factor.
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | Do I believe that? Absolutely. Never underestimate how lazy
           | people are. I very commonly hear battery health as the reason
           | for replacement. In fact, I'd say it's the most common reason
           | heard. A 3 year old iPhone is still excellent, why else would
           | you replace it?
           | 
           | Besides effort, there's also trust issues. I once had a
           | battery replacement done but the "new" one was just as bad as
           | the old one.
        
         | arcticbull wrote:
         | > If the iPhone would have true user-swappable batteries, their
         | business would collapse.
         | 
         | Battery replacement costs at Apple are $69-99 and offered all
         | the way back to the iPhone SE 1st Generation. That's the all-in
         | cost where you bring it in, they open it up, swap it out, and
         | give your phone back to you.
         | 
         | An OEM battery for an Android phone is like $50.
         | 
         | Budgeting $69-99 once every 3-4 years hardly seems like it's
         | going to nuke their business from orbit.
        
           | jazzyjackson wrote:
           | Agreed. Apple phones are quite repairable (just not DIY-
           | able), no one is dropping 1000 dollars on a new phone because
           | their current one has a cracked back glass.
           | 
           | Watching their live feed, one of Apple's selling points on
           | such an expensive phone is that it will last a long time and
           | have a higher re-sale value than other phones. It's not a
           | case of planned obsolescence.
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | There are absolutely cases where they have artificially
             | gated features to new devices, even when the hardware is
             | capable (I'm thinking around Handoff/Continuity, etc.).
             | Where the initial reaction is "maybe it's a new BT chip or
             | ..." but it can be shown that the functionality is perfect
             | when some trickery is done to fool the OS its running on
             | more modern hardware.
        
               | twoodfin wrote:
               | This is a consequence of Apple's deeply ingrained (and
               | hugely successful) product design culture.
               | 
               | When you're trying to develop a vertically integrated
               | feature across a synchronized release requiring
               | potentially new silicon, a new device, new OS frameworks,
               | new app code... you have to express your requirements
               | precisely. Either the M1 is being designed to support
               | three displays or it's being designed to support two. Not
               | "as much display support as we can squeeze in where
               | performance is still OK end-to-end". By the time you know
               | if end-to-end looks good for all the features you built
               | up depending on lower layers in the stack, it's too late.
               | 
               | You're also likely not to trust "hey, seems like our
               | tolerances were excessive and it works great on older
               | hardware". And building up that trust is time-consuming
               | and difficult, so they rarely go back to do it without a
               | strong market justification. Stage Manager being the most
               | recent--somewhat odd--example.
        
               | wolpoli wrote:
               | There was also that instance where Siri was gated from
               | the iPhone 4. It was later shown that it was possible to
               | install the Siri interface on the iPhone 4 through a
               | Jailbreak - the only thing that prevented full
               | functionality was a device serial number embedded in the
               | request to the Siri server.
        
               | sroussey wrote:
               | Eh, sometimes. Other times, a newer piece of internal
               | hardware has no new "feature" but just works better and
               | has fewer failures. This is particularly true with every
               | kind of wireless networking, including Bluetooth. It may
               | work, but not have hit the quality bar.
        
             | barbs wrote:
             | Absolutely disagree.
             | 
             | Having replaced the screen, battery and home button on my
             | 1st gen iPhone SE myself I can confidently say that Apple
             | do not make these easy to repair yourself, and arguably
             | make it more difficult to drive business for their own
             | repair service. Lots of tiny screws requiring particular
             | tools of different lengths that can't be mixed up, lest you
             | permanently damage the phone. Glue that needs to be
             | carefully removed or you risk dangerously damaging the
             | battery. Just look at their repairability scores on iFixit:
             | https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-
             | repairabilit... .
        
               | npunt wrote:
               | Repairability was bad but has gone up a lot, they did a
               | big internals redesign for iPhone 15 to make it easier to
               | swap batteries and replace screens. Still not something
               | they want user serviceable, I imagine mostly because it
               | creates headaches for everyone involved. Most people
               | struggle fixing big things, let alone sub-mm precision
               | things. But this helps the 3rd party repair shops a lot.
        
             | detourdog wrote:
             | Apple also has to develop technology at their own pace. I
             | used to get an iPhone every year. Eventually it stopped
             | making sense and I just now had to check to see which one I
             | had .(14 Pro)I remember noticing a big difference when I
             | bought this iPhone with the camera.
             | 
             | I know whenever I upgrade it will always be to a current
             | state of Apple"s art because of these incremental
             | consistent upgrades.
             | 
             | I"m very tempted to buy a new one. The last time I waited
             | till it broke to upgrade.
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | Assuming those prices are correct and the procedure is that
           | convenient, it doesn't practically exist if most people
           | aren't aware of it. From my casual observations most people
           | suffer with bad batteries until buying a new model.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | What more can they do?
             | 
             | You can google it, go to the website, go to any of their
             | stores or authorized dealers, or click the link the phone
             | gives you in the battery health view.
             | 
             | Short of apple beating down your door, what more do you
             | expect
        
               | SSLy wrote:
               | It also complains in your settings app main screen if the
               | battery is too low.
        
               | pishpash wrote:
               | It's a psychological game. People are primed to want new
               | things, and more investment into something old is hard to
               | justify even if it's financially right. Also OS's lose
               | supprt, softwares bloat, and bundled offers from carriers
               | are toward replacement. You'd have to be really
               | disciplined to not succumb to upgrade pressure when you
               | go into an Apple Store of all places where the entire
               | setup is to generate sales.
        
               | thund wrote:
               | if they were really about saving the environment, they
               | would put messages in software and case, informing users
               | they could reduce waste by replacing batteries instead of
               | replacing phones. But they don't.
        
               | doctornoble wrote:
               | What a reductive position.
        
               | tstrimple wrote:
               | Apple provides a warning and a link to battery
               | replacement options from the Battery Health screen when
               | it detects that it's been degraded too much. So... they
               | do provide this?
        
               | ryanwhitney wrote:
               | They do. You're notified when battery health is either
               | unknown or reaching EOL. It points you towards
               | replacement, not upgrade.
               | 
               | "If battery health has degraded significantly, the below
               | message will also appear: Your battery's health is
               | significantly degraded. An Apple Authorized Service
               | Provider can replace the battery to restore full
               | performance and capacity. More about service options..."
               | 
               | https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575
        
               | andrepd wrote:
               | I'd love your being down voted for stating the obvious:
               | capitalist enterprise cares about profits, not "the
               | environment". Well duh. It's silly to expect anything
               | else.
        
             | tpmoney wrote:
             | At what point are people responsible for their own actions
             | or ignorance? Apple hardly makes the battery replacement
             | option a secret, and there are plenty of 3rd party
             | retailers that advertise them too. Anyone who bought a new
             | iPhone because they didn't realize they could get the
             | battery replaced has failed to do even the most cursory
             | research into what options are out there for solving their
             | problem. It would be one thing if we were talking the 1st
             | generation iPhone days, when the "battery replacement"
             | option was the usually "out of warranty" device replacement
             | that was effectively Apple's entire repair process for the
             | phone at the time. Then your "battery replacement" costs
             | were ~50% of the cost of a new phone, and that definitely
             | gets into the "buy a new phone instead of replacing the
             | battery" territory. But the ~$100 battery replacement
             | option has been around since at least 2010[1], now 14 years
             | later there's no excuse for not being aware, or becoming
             | aware when you need it.
             | 
             | [1]: https://archive.nytimes.com/gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.c
             | om/201...
        
             | soneca wrote:
             | The battery gets bad after 4 years. That's usually the
             | moment I want to buy a new phone already, why invest $99 in
             | a phone that I won't be using in a year? Better deal with a
             | bad battery for a few months or a year, then already go on
             | and buy a new one.
             | 
             | I never heard of someone who bought a new phone _solely_
             | for a new battery
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | Bring it in where? I have to drive an hour one way for an
           | Apple store. It's easier to order a new device than be
           | without my phone.
        
             | leejoramo wrote:
             | Last couple of times I have done this, I used Apple's
             | online system to schedule the battery replace at a locally
             | owned Apple dealer or at the nearest Best Buy. Same price
             | and warranty as at the Apple Store. Turn around time was 2
             | hours.
        
               | selimnairb wrote:
               | Helpful tip. Thanks!
        
             | Detrytus wrote:
             | Lucky you. I would need to drive to another country for an
             | Apple store... And I don't live in Third World either
             | (theoretically), but in Central Europe.
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | My thing is the battery timeline matches pretty closely to
           | when I'm just ready for something new. I go bare, no case, so
           | by 3-4 years my screen is scratched and scuffed enough to
           | just do full replacement. I usually notice the speed leap too
           | and how certain apps were severely unoptimized for my older
           | device. So that's nice too. But it's not ever felt like a
           | "upgrade" in a very long time because I don't have any new
           | features unlocked (not any that I use), so I'm my mind it's a
           | "replacement".
        
             | wpm wrote:
             | The one consumable much harder to replace is the oleophobic
             | coating. There are drops you can buy and apply, they seem
             | to work alright, but don't last nearly as long as the
             | factory coating.
             | 
             | By year two, the screen just gets grubbier and grubbier. By
             | year three its just plan nasty.
        
               | arcticbull wrote:
               | If you get AppleCare+ the screen replacement is $29. I
               | usually get it replaced right before I can hand it off to
               | my family. It's not as good a deal obviously if you don't
               | plan on getting AppleCare+ anyways.
        
             | sroussey wrote:
             | I've gone back to no case since the Ceramic Shield and it's
             | been great. Excited for the improvements in the next model.
             | I hate cases and will no go back.
        
               | tstrimple wrote:
               | I tried that for a while, but I find my iPhone 13 Pro Max
               | to be easier to operate with one hand when it has a case.
               | The iPhone is a bit too slippery for me without it.
        
           | jtriangle wrote:
           | You missed the _user_ bit of what you 're replying to.
           | 
           | There are android phones that have this ability, I have one.
           | New batteries are ~20 bucks, and they take about 5 minutes to
           | swap, most of which is shutdown/boot time. I can take my
           | phone out innawoods and use offline GPS all day, and as a
           | flashlight at night, by just bringing a pocketfull of
           | batteries.
           | 
           | When a battery goes bad, I toss it in the recycle bucket, and
           | buy a new one. I currently have 10 of them and they're on
           | rotation.
           | 
           | What that means is, I get a new phone when apps stop working,
           | and I use very few apps, so, that's been 5+ years since I
           | adopted this model. It'd certainly be better for the
           | environment and better for the consumer if manufacturers were
           | on-board with this idea, but, it'd be far worse for their
           | margins, so, these devices only exist on the periphery.
           | 
           | That said, I do think that Apple could make this work for the
           | masses. Simply pair the batteries with the phone, keep
           | everyone in the walled garden, don't allow 3rd parties in
           | willy nilly, and then charge more for new batteries. That
           | that system and spin the hell out of it, make
           | android/google/et al look like evil megacorps filling the
           | earth with chemicals leached from 1-time use android phones,
           | and call it a day.
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | > _the_ user* bit*
             | 
             | "The masses" do not want to carry a bag of spare batteries.
             | The masses don't want to have to think about it.
             | 
             | The latest generation devices are mostly "don't have to
             | think about it" on batteries.
             | 
             | > _New batteries are ~20 bucks_
             | 
             | Gotta love those after-market or counterfeit high density
             | inflammable energy packs crammed against your body or the
             | bagful of 9 spares left in your car...
             | 
             | https://www.motleyrice.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-
             | explos...
             | 
             | Getting worse, not better:
             | 
             | https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/09/tech/lithium-ion-battery-
             | fire...
             | 
             | I want real ones from a real company spending real money on
             | R&D, that I "know where they live" if it's a problem.
             | 
             | Speaking of quality, I can use current iPhone off grid with
             | offline GPS all day, and use it again the next day --
             | without taking any battery packs.
             | 
             | The new "max" devices clock effectively two day battery
             | life if you are conscious of what you're using it for (say,
             | camping out off grid instead of doomscrolling Insta, for
             | instance). I find even 3 or 4 sometimes if you're not
             | picking it up and are in low energy and low data mode.
             | Definitely 3 - 4 if you shut it off while asleep. It's
             | nuts.
        
           | smitelli wrote:
           | And sometimes they rip the display cable while they're trying
           | to swap out the battery, and you end up with an entirely new
           | SE2 in the end. Happened to us about 1-2 months ago.
        
           | meragrin_ wrote:
           | > Budgeting $69-99 once every 3-4 years hardly seems like
           | it's going to nuke their business from orbit.
           | 
           | Apple's business model partially depends on selling people a
           | new phone every few years. If people switch to battery
           | replacements in place of new phones in large quantities, that
           | is going to significantly hurt their business model.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | Apple makes a ton of money from services:
             | 
             | https://www.statista.com/statistics/382136/quarterly-
             | segment...
             | 
             | That's not an accident, they spent a lot of effort building
             | up their portfolio when this trend was obviously
             | unavoidable. They'd love it if you buy a new phone every
             | year but they're almost as happy if you keep the same phone
             | for 5 years, buy apps, and subscribe to Apple One. One of
             | the really big questions is what impact the EU DMA will
             | have on this strategy: a lot of what's kept them ahead of
             | Android on things like CPUs is the geyser of App Store cash
             | stabilizing revenue for long-term commitments.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | > iPhone SE 1st Generation
           | 
           | To note, that's a regional thing. It seems to stop at gen2
           | for Asian countries for ex.
           | 
           | > Budgeting $69-99 once every 3-4 years
           | 
           | iPhone batteries become subpar way faster than that,
           | especially the older models who get more strained as they
           | bear the heavier OS. Once every year and a half looks more
           | realistic to me.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | > An OEM battery for an Android phone is like $50.
           | 
           | I just got mine replaced on my pixel 6, total cost was $200.
           | 
           | Still gonna hang onto it because there's no reason to replace
           | but yeah labor costs for android are a bit ridiculous.
        
         | Fokamul wrote:
         | "highly educated" != "tech savvy/smart". IT Project manager,
         | right? :D
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | The real advancements majority of users would notice:
         | 
         | - Get rid of green text when messaging Android phones
         | 
         | - More battery life.
         | 
         | - Better camera (arguably already achieved)
         | 
         | - lesser issue but fix the stupid bugs with storage/duplication
         | with pictures and messages. I am already paying for a TB level
         | plan with iCloud. How can my phone possibly run out of storage?
         | 
         | That's it. All the AI stuff is marginal at best and useless at
         | worst. The new UI stuff they introduced sometime ago? Doesn't
         | really get used by anyone I know. Control center was probably
         | the last useful feature added. If they did a release where they
         | removed features to simplify iOS I would upgrade.
        
           | peab wrote:
           | where'd you see no more green text?
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | iOS 18 (available for all iphones since 2nd gen SE) will
             | support RCS
             | 
             | I don't actually know how this will be implemented into
             | iMessage but it's supposed to bring feature parity between
             | android and apple.
             | 
             | EDIT: looks like still green bubbles
             | https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apples-rcs-texting-
             | starts-i...
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | RCS brings plenty of new monetization and spam
               | opportunities but doesn't bring feature parity. Or did
               | Google decide to open up their proprietary extensions to
               | non-Google RCS clients?
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | There's a massive feature benefit: finally allowing
               | multi-megabyte attachments. Hopefully pictures and videos
               | won't be compressed to fit into 600KB.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | This is entirely possible with MMS but for most carriers
               | refusing to adopt 3GPP's current recommendations. This is
               | also entirely possible with other messaging apps
               | available on iOS but for American android users refusing
               | to use other apps.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | Unless the RCS messages are end-to-end encrypted, they
               | should stay green IMHO.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | They are talking about features they'd _like_ to see.
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | Agreed on battery life. It's such a pity that advances in
           | battery tech is never given back to the user.
           | 
           | As for green text, this is purely a US thing. Most of the
           | rest of the world uses Whatsapp.
        
             | lloeki wrote:
             | Most of the rest of the world doesn't give a rat's ass
             | about bubble colour and just use SMS, including for sharing
             | pictures.
             | 
             | I don't have WhatsApp and literally nobody ever asked me to
             | use it, even if I know they have it. they just flat out
             | don't care as long as a message gets across.
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | I don't know any part of the world still using SMS. What
               | part of the world is that?
        
               | mattnewton wrote:
               | Countries where telecom competition lead to unlimited sms
               | early enough and/or iPhone/iMessage adoption meant people
               | weren't motivated to install third party apps. The US and
               | to a lesser extend the UK are the only countries I'm
               | aware of this happening? But the UK plans added unlimited
               | sms later and so WhatsApp has >50% market penetration
               | there unlike the US.
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | The unreliability of sharing video with android users
               | over mms is what drives my use of Signal. That and it's
               | cross platform.
        
               | iteratethis wrote:
               | I don't care if you personally use Whatsapp or not, it's
               | beyond the point. Whatsapp is by far the most used
               | messenger app in the world. The US is unique in the
               | developed world for using iMessages or SMS.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | Here in Europe even my grandmother and her neighbours use
               | WhatsApp and MMS for pictures seem to be unsupported for
               | the last decade or so.
        
           | Tepix wrote:
           | Also, AirDrop and mobile hotspot are unreliable, if Apple
           | could make them always work, that'd be noticeable.
        
             | mhink wrote:
             | For AirDrop, at least, I've found it to be very reliable,
             | with one caveat that always tripped me up before I realized
             | it: *the recipient's phone needs to be unlocked*. This
             | completely changed the game for me, and now me and my wife
             | use it all the time.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | Get rid of green text when messaging Android phones
           | 
           | Do you mean green background? Because the non-iMessage
           | bubbles are the white text on a green background _for
           | outgoing messages only_. Given that the most vocal folks seem
           | to be Android users who care about the background color of
           | someone else 's messages I doubt the majority of iPhone users
           | care, would notice, or are even using the Messages app in the
           | first place. Certainly if you're calling it green text you're
           | not paying much attention either.                 Better
           | camera (arguably already achieved)
           | 
           | Apple can still get rid of that hideous camera bump.
        
           | dividedbyzero wrote:
           | > Get rid of green text when messaging Android phones
           | 
           | I don't think iMessage is big anywhere outside the US (which
           | appears to account for about 9% of iPhone users). I don't
           | think a majority of global users even knows there are
           | different colors.
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | I know virtually nobody using iMessage in southern Europe.
        
           | treflop wrote:
           | The AI stuff could be useful if it makes Siri more useful.
           | 
           | Like when I'm listening to a Spotify playlist and I want to
           | like the song or save it to a playlist while driving, it
           | would be amazing if I could just tell Siri to do it for me.
           | As-is, sometimes it tells me it doesn't how to play songs on
           | Spotify.
           | 
           | Or they were showing how you would be able to look for photo
           | by describing it.
        
             | knodi123 wrote:
             | I have a beta of the new Siri, and it's still less
             | impressive than the the OK Google I gave up half a decade
             | ago.
             | 
             | The capability set is indistinguishable.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | > Better camera (arguably already achieved)
           | 
           | I feel the later generation of phones went back a bit as they
           | have more aggressive processing. It can work great, but the
           | hit or miss ratio is worse, in particular noise processing
           | can be way off.
           | 
           | That's crazy the budget Pixel a lone gets overall better
           | photos than a top of the line iPhone.
        
           | jm4 wrote:
           | How about getting rid of that stupid back button in the top
           | left corner when an app opens another app? It drives me crazy
           | seeing it every time I click a link in a message. It's the
           | most useless thing. There's already a good app switcher. What
           | is the point of the back button?
        
         | baggachipz wrote:
         | I've been working in tech for 25 years, and I'm sure I hardly
         | use any of the new features. Camera? Click, maybe crop it or
         | turn it into a loop if it's funny. I play some games on it. I
         | browse some social crap on it. I occasionally tell Siri to set
         | a reminder. That's... about it. I'm really not sure what else
         | I'm supposed to be doing.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | Even as an iOS app developer, there's a huge amount of stuff
         | that stock iOS can do that I'm unaware of.
         | 
         | At this point, I'm not going to be interested (dead battery
         | isn't "interested") in the upgrade cycle until there's a new
         | kind of sensor, e.g. thermal imaging or (technically possible
         | in software) repurposing the WiFi as a wall penetrating radar.
         | 
         | Even on the dev side, WWDC for the last few years feels _more
         | like_ "here's an even more complicated way to create a simple
         | app" instead of "this will make your life easier because x" or
         | "y is increasing important, use tool z to support it".
        
         | kvgr wrote:
         | I am professional android developer for more than 10 years. And
         | even i dont care about the features anymore. Outside my work i
         | just want good battery life and big screen. I have iphone 12
         | and dont plan to upgrade until it stops working. Probably
         | professional exhaustion. But i honestly care about the newest
         | buzz.
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | They have to keep adding new features because what to do
         | otherwise? I have long lost interest of the mobile world.
         | Battery life and some rams to run some apps are all I need.
         | 
         | The general customers definitely want more. They are getting
         | excited by AI in camera apps (existed before the AI hype) and
         | other stuffs.
        
         | cmeacham98 wrote:
         | > She can't tell the difference between LCD and OLED nor would
         | she notice Pro-motion.
         | 
         | I find this example interesting, because on the android side I
         | would rank these two in the top 10 _most_ notable improvements
         | made to phones in the last 5-10 years.
         | 
         | I have had multiple "normies" use my phone in the last few
         | years and ask why it felt so smooth - and every time the
         | difference between my phone and theirs has been a higher
         | refresh rate display (what apple calls "ProMotion").
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | The lack of distinction between LCD and OLED can be
           | explained. The specific condition in which OLED thrives
           | rarely occurs. You'd need deep blacks in low ambient light
           | viewing conditions for it to really stand out.
           | 
           | iOS, most apps, most websites, even most video isn't mastered
           | as such and not consumed in those conditions.
        
             | runako wrote:
             | I wonder if watching TV/movies on phones in bed at night is
             | a normal use case. I thought it was a normal thing that
             | many/most people do, but this comment suggests that perhaps
             | my social circle is odd in that way.
        
               | nozzlegear wrote:
               | > I wonder if watching TV/movies on phones in bed at
               | night is a normal use case.
               | 
               | Your GP and optometrist would certainly prefer you don't
               | do it. I can't speak to the frequency of how much other
               | people do it, but my wife and I try to avoid it, not
               | always successfully.
        
               | iteratethis wrote:
               | TV shows and movies aren't mastered like that either.
               | 
               | I have an incredible TV. OLED with increased brightness,
               | the latter being new tech. The combination of OLED and
               | HDR is jaw dropping to witness. To me and to everybody
               | that I show it to.
               | 
               | What do I show them? A Youtube list with TV demo videos
               | that specifically demonstrate the effect. Deep blacks
               | with locally bright highlights. Not to mention very deep
               | vibrant colors.
               | 
               | I watch the demo videos every 2 months or so to remind
               | myself that I have an awesome TV. Because I most
               | certainly do not experience anything remotely like that
               | on ordinary TV channels, streaming services, the like.
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | > Apple makes an excellent product
         | 
         | Contrarian opinion on the AirPods. Apple says that they think
         | the new noise cancellation "auto adjust" is better on the
         | "human" side of things, and the social - they showed an
         | interaction where the barista started talking to the wearer,
         | and the AirPods adjusted so the barista could be heard.
         | 
         | To me, that's not social, I think it's actually anti-social. It
         | moves the onus onto anyone who wants to or needs to interact
         | with you to assume that you can hear them, that you're focused
         | on the conversation, etc.
         | 
         | It really wouldn't kill you to remove an airpod (or any
         | headphone) if you are in public initiating interactions with
         | someone, for just a few moments.
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | Fully agree. Same for putting a speaker on the Apple watch.
           | 
           | "Great for when you don't have your airpods with you"
           | 
           | Yes, and surely it will be normalized in the culture to just
           | blast your watch in public.
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | the apple watch has had a speaker for 10 years and it
             | hasn't been an issue
        
           | doublepg23 wrote:
           | I think that ship sailed a while ago.
           | 
           | I was doing retail work around COVID and there were many many
           | people who didn't have the decency to hold phone calls while
           | checking out let alone taking off headphones.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | > It really wouldn't kill you to remove an airpod (or any
           | headphone) if you are in public initiating interactions with
           | someone, for just a few moments.
           | 
           | you can just do this. but sometimes your hands are full, or
           | you dont have use of them, or you dont want to drop your
           | airpod.
        
           | tpmoney wrote:
           | > It really wouldn't kill you to remove an airpod (or any
           | headphone) if you are in public initiating interactions with
           | someone, for just a few moments.
           | 
           | Actually, I've found this creates more social friction, not
           | less. I spent a while listening to some books while working,
           | and originally had noise canceling turned on. Every time
           | someone came over to talk about something, whether I paused
           | and turned noise canceling off or removed the ear pieces,
           | there was always an awkward moment for the person talking to
           | me while they had to stop what they were starting to say,
           | wait for me and then usually apologize for interrupting. It
           | felt extremely anti-social, and I think a part of that is
           | that headphones were for a very long time considered anti-
           | social and the act of removing them was often a signal that
           | someone was interrupting you (and that you didn't really want
           | to be interrupted). But when you're using headphones in a
           | shared space, it's usually less about not wanting to be
           | interrupted and more being considerate that not everyone
           | wants to listen to the same things you're listening to.
           | 
           | Eventually I left them in transparency mode and kept the
           | volume low enough that I could carry on a conversation over
           | it, and could subtly reduce the volume while still holding a
           | conversation. No more awkward pausing and restarting, no more
           | apologies and the "hardest" thing I have to do is maybe
           | rewind a bit after I'm done with the conversation. So much
           | less anti-social feeling all around.
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | Heck, I have friends in _tech_ that in the past did iPhone 4,
         | 6, 8, whether you were an  "even number" or an "odd number"
         | iPhone buyer became something of a label. One of these guys is
         | on the 11 Pro, has the 16 Plus in his cart, but is actively
         | texting the group chat whether or not to go through with it.
         | 
         | If you feel Apple isn't actively facing a xx% risk to their
         | business by 2030, you're beside yourself. Its not that people
         | are switching away, or that Apple overtly missed some major
         | tech trend; people just aren't upgrading anymore. They need to
         | come up with something a lot more drastic to keep people
         | motivated toward spending $1000+/year with them; its not
         | ungrateful, its not cynical, its the market. AI is not it.
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | It's the camera for me, especially 5x zoom lens in the big
           | phone instead of the enormous phone. But if I do go through
           | with it I'll be coming from a 4 year old phone, so I'm
           | already not in the $1000/year market.
           | 
           | If they're able to figure out a mass market VR headset that
           | will give them another push for new phone sales. I hear the
           | "spatial photos/videos" are very cool.
        
             | 015a wrote:
             | VR also isn't it. The best case scenario for Vision is that
             | it becomes a <$10B/quarter market similar to the iPad, but
             | it costs substantially more to build and evolve (more
             | complicated hardware and software, lower margins, less
             | software sharing with iPhone). The more likely outcome is
             | that it doesn't even reach $5B by 2030 (that would be ~6%
             | revenue).
             | 
             | I think the broader problem is that no one knows what "it"
             | is; what comes next. We had web3, crypto, AR, VR, now AI,
             | but none of these things feel like they have the horsepower
             | to launch another $30B in quarterly or even annual revenue
             | for Apple.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | I'm not convinced the next "it" is a new hardware product
               | any time soon. You can do a lot with a screen, battery,
               | and cellular connection. All the stuff that AI pins and
               | necklaces can do will end up in phones, watches, and
               | earbuds, and Apple will keep selling all those existing
               | product lines for years. They might even find a way to
               | squeeze an "Apple Intelligence Plus" subscription in
               | there somewhere, with their recent focus on chasing
               | services revenue to make up for slower phone sales.
               | 
               | Just because phones are maturing doesn't necessarily mean
               | a new computing paradigm is right around the corner.
        
               | sfjailbird wrote:
               | For phones, I think foldable screens are good for a
               | couple more generations of updates. I've had a Flip for a
               | couple of years and won't go back, when they make them
               | lighter I'm in the market for the next one.
        
               | Electricniko wrote:
               | Apple AI selfie drone with a monthly contract for your
               | own livestream channel to stream everything you do, with
               | Siri as the AI stream moderator, and an asset/app store
               | to upgrade different parts of your streams. Maybe even
               | 30% cut of the donations from stream fans.
               | 
               | If there's an Apple exec reading this, you can pay me for
               | this idea before committing billions to develop and
               | subsequently cancel it when everybody realizes it's dumb.
        
           | 1-more wrote:
           | > spending $1000+/year with them
           | 
           | I figure Apple hasn't depended on latest model upgrades every
           | year for a while now. Hell I'm going 12 to 16 Pro because I'm
           | sick of not being able to photograph birds well.
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | I agree. I do think Apple is thrilled with the sudden AI hype
           | as this gives them 1-2 generations of new "selling points" as
           | they were truly running out.
           | 
           | But still, it masks the problem of an underlying demand that
           | will stagnate if not decline. They're aware of this danger,
           | hence to pivot to earn more from services.
        
           | spacemadness wrote:
           | I really hope the vast majority will never upgrade every
           | year, regardless of those poor Apple stockholders and their
           | incentives. What a bunch of capitalist driven excess that
           | would be. I say that and I write code for iOS.
        
           | jmull wrote:
           | It doesn't look like Apple needs people to be upgrading every
           | other year to do well. Not anywhere close.
           | 
           | Apple sold 232M iPhones in 2023, and had 1.83B active iPhone
           | users.
           | 
           | Doing a little math, they'd need their existing users to
           | upgrade every six years to keep selling them at the current
           | rate. Your friend would still be ahead of the curve for Apple
           | if he goes forward with that upgrade.
        
             | petesergeant wrote:
             | > and had 1.83B active iPhone users
             | 
             | be very curious to know what percentage of users bought
             | second hand
        
         | hintymad wrote:
         | > even works in IT, although not in an engineering role.
         | 
         | What an accurate profile! I work in an engineering role in IT,
         | and I'm like your girlfriend when it comes to the phone. Like,
         | I don't even know whether my iphone is max or max pro, as it
         | does not make a difference to me. The top apps that I use are
         | Kindle, Books, Chrome (for tracking my progress on
         | dreamingspanish.com), Podcast, Spotify, Maps, and as everyone
         | else: some social/messaging apps. Everyone of such apps seems
         | work just fine on a much older phone.
        
         | stroupwaffle wrote:
         | My biggest complaint is that the lenses aren't flush with the
         | back. I hate having cases on my phone, and their design makes
         | wireless charging somewhat useless because it's not flush with
         | the charging mat.
        
           | spicymaki wrote:
           | They would if they could. Optical physics is one factor that
           | prevents the lenses from being flush with the back. If you
           | want to support advanced optical features the lenses need
           | depth.
        
             | stroupwaffle wrote:
             | Makes sense. Instead of having a flat back, it might be
             | kind of neat to have it slope like a "wedge" shape.
             | 
             | It would actually make the phone more comfortable in the
             | hands too because they could improve the weight balance.
        
               | sfjailbird wrote:
               | Always wondered why they don't do this. Just a subtle
               | sloping of the edge around the lense, so the phone is
               | flush with the table it is lying on.
        
               | Zee2 wrote:
               | The original Google Pixel (2016) was exactly this shape.
               | No camera bump with a wedge profile.
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | So put a periscope in there. Or synthesise the image from
             | 48 tiny cameras in a grid.
        
               | foobarian wrote:
               | I vote for a fatter phone with extra space used for
               | battery
        
               | sroussey wrote:
               | The really should do that with the "plus".
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | But they could at least make the bump symmetrical so the
             | phone doesn't wobble when used on a table.
        
         | jrflowers wrote:
         | People like better looking/more easily captured photos and even
         | "normies" can grasp features like satellite 911
        
         | mithr wrote:
         | I don't know that I completely agree. To some degree, sure --
         | most folks probably don't notice the year-to-year updates in
         | e.g. computing power.
         | 
         | But my 70yo mother, who is pretty far from being
         | technologically savvy, uses continuity every day to copy one-
         | time-use codes from her phone to her computer, even though
         | she'd have no idea what the term "continuity" means in this
         | context. She notices that it's easier to snap better pictures
         | in more conditions than it was a few years back (and that
         | pictures she receives are better looking on average, too). She
         | uses 1Password with FaceID, which I set up for her, because
         | it's so easy to just look at your phone to unlock that there's
         | very little in the way of enabling and using that, and she
         | doesn't need to write down passwords anymore.
         | 
         | I think some of the magic of the Apple ecosystem is that you
         | don't _have_ to know about these things in order to use them.
         | Someone shows you how to do something (Apple could certainly
         | improve on the organic discoverability of many of these
         | features! Some are impossible to find without looking), and
         | then it often just works. And these things do keep getting
         | closer to that ideal over time, with each generation. When I
         | first started using continuity -- long before my mother did --
         | it definitely did not work all the time, and I persisted
         | because I 'm a techie early adopter. Eventually, though, it
         | reached a state where once folks learn about it, they can just
         | use it.
         | 
         | I'm also not sure about the 3-4 year number, at least from
         | personal experience, fwiw. We pass down phones in my family,
         | and it easily takes 5-6 generations for them to reach the end
         | of that chain and be in use for a year or two before they're
         | switched out for the next model. Battery has never been the
         | reason someone in that chain switched phones.
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | Battery can be replaced by going to the apple store and
           | buying a new one which is cheaper than a new phone, so I
           | agree with you on that.
           | 
           | Phone definitely last longer so 6 years sounds about right,
           | as after that they tend to get obsolete.
        
             | camjohnson26 wrote:
             | I had no idea this was possible, but yeah, going to
             | "battery health" in my Settings shows battery health is
             | degraded, and provides a link to schedule a replacement.
        
         | TuringNYC wrote:
         | >> The reality though is that normie needs were accomplished
         | several generations ago.
         | 
         | Sure, and a couple of iOS updates into a good phone, and the
         | phone is suddenly slow, crawling, and no longer meeting normie
         | needs.
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | The savvy users that integrate new features into their
         | creativity are the young people. Under 25.
         | 
         | And of course creatives that do it as a hobby or a job.
         | 
         | Regular folks won't be using this stuff
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | > Most people don't buy the pro
         | 
         | Historically, that was true, but more recently, most people do
         | buy the Pro. I don't know why (actually I do: FOMO and monthly
         | payment plans).
         | 
         | https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/iphone-15-sales-figu...
         | 
         | iPhone 15 Pro Max: 23%
         | 
         | iPhone 15 Pro: 22%
         | 
         | iPhone 15: 14%
         | 
         | iPhone 15 Plus: 9%
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | I don't know if you're old or not or what your eyesight is
           | like but even the pro max is getting hard to read for me :-)
        
           | WillPostForFood wrote:
           | You are already spending $800 for the 16; the 16 Pro is $200
           | more and you get better camera, better battery life, and
           | slightly bigger screen. It is a tempting proposition if you
           | want the new tech. If you don't care about latest/greatest
           | get the SE at 1/2 the price.
        
         | Giorgi wrote:
         | Owning current year's iPhone model is pretty much status
         | symbol, that's basically all that is.
        
         | tails4e wrote:
         | I agree largely. I have a p30 pro, and it's a great phone
         | despite being 4 or 5 years old . It's so good, recently it got
         | water damaged and I as faced with replacing it. I couldnt find
         | a phone for under 500 that could beat it, and especially the 2
         | day battery life. So I didn't, I instead paintakingly dried it
         | out over 3 weeks and it's pretty much fully functional. That's
         | how much I didn't want to change phone, and how the new sparkly
         | features don't really matter as much as battery life, and
         | utility.
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | > If the iPhone would have true user-swappable batteries, their
         | business would collapse.
         | 
         | For me it's _slightly_ more complicated than that. I would
         | probably still be using my 2016 iPhone SE with its headphone
         | jack and size if (a) it was still receiving OS updates and (b)
         | iOS bloat didn 't make it slow.
         | 
         | Would love it if the battery swap were easy for the end user to
         | do, but TBH paying $100 to have it done every few years is
         | doable for me.
         | 
         | Better camera capability is the only other thing that even
         | registered for me. The jump to the iphone 12 mini that I made
         | last year did have some nice benefits on that front and got me
         | some performance I'd lost back. Other than that, the main
         | reason I upgraded is that I was forced to by the iOS
         | obsolescence treadmill.
        
           | dkga wrote:
           | Sorry, jumping in here. I don't think it's so much iOS gloat
           | as much as app gloat. Take a look at their sizes, it's
           | absolutely bonkers and unjustified.
        
             | jwells89 wrote:
             | App bloat really is out of control, to the point that I
             | wonder if maybe Apple shouldn't somehow incentivize
             | developers to minimize bundle size and resource
             | consumption. Maybe well-crafted, efficient apps get an "eco
             | friendly" badge and their own section of the App Store or
             | something.
        
         | superfrank wrote:
         | You only feel conflicted about this because (I assume) you
         | lived through the phase where smart phones were changing every
         | year and the updates from one phone to the next were regularly
         | pretty ground breaking. People who lived through that era were
         | conditioned to feel that every generation was a massive leap
         | forward and that you were missing out on cool things if you
         | didn't upgrade every year.
         | 
         | That's not the case anymore, but it's a hard feeling to shake,
         | especially when companies are still trying to convince us that
         | it's true because it benefits their top line. The truth is that
         | smart phones are just small computers at this point. Most
         | people don't feel conflicted about not buying a new computer
         | every year and you shouldn't feel that way about smart phones.
         | 
         | At this point the only people who need (I use that term very
         | loosely) a new smart phone every single year are people who see
         | having the most recent version as a status symbol.
        
         | jmyeet wrote:
         | Apple is engaging in feature-bloat to protect the $1000 price
         | point. That's all that's going on here.
         | 
         | Phones (particularly iPhones0 have stubbornly resisted getting
         | cheaper. That's by design. Features get added simply to make it
         | more expensive.
         | 
         | We saw this with the Macbooks about a decade ago. The Macbook
         | Air was fantastic because it was cheap. For Apple it was too
         | cheap. So we got Touch bar. Did it solve any user problems? No.
         | I know a few will say they like it but it was a dismal failure.
         | 
         | The only reason the Touch Bar existed was to make Macbooks more
         | expensive.
         | 
         | I have been frustrated with subsequent iOS updates because it
         | gets less and less intuitive. Even Safari has a lot of touch
         | points on the screen that do stuff I don't care about. On the
         | iPad there's now split screen. I bet you've triggered this
         | acccidentally or had to solve this for a friend or relative who
         | had. We replaced private browsing mode with "tab groups". Does
         | anyone actually need this? If you don't (and I would posit
         | that's most people) then it's now an extra tap to switch modes.
         | 
         | Cut and paste just seems to get worse and worse. It tries to be
         | cleve by selecting a word. It can be difficult and involve
         | several taps to get around this. The original implementation of
         | this was (IMHO) far superior and more intuitive.
        
           | gerash wrote:
           | I haven't had a Mac with touch bar but I can see the point of
           | the idea:
           | 
           | You have a keyboard and mouse as inputs to a Mac. why not a
           | mini touch screen as well? but instead of rendering the app
           | content there you render the controls. this way you don't
           | need to remember shortcuts because common actions for an app
           | are displayed there.
           | 
           | IMO the idea makes sense but needs further refinement in
           | execution. maybe even better haptic feedback
        
             | jmyeet wrote:
             | This ignores the issue that physical keys have tacticle
             | feedback that touch screens do not.
             | 
             | This is a big issue with modern cars (particularly Teslas).
             | People generally hate touch screens because you have to
             | look at them to use them. For driving in particular, that's
             | a real problem. Compare this to a more normal car where you
             | can feel the AC button or the volume or whatever.
             | 
             | Companies like touch screens because it lets them punt on
             | UI/UX design and selecting controls, which means they
             | basically never get done. It's purely a cost issue.
             | 
             | Now with Macbooks, I did like that I could slide my finger
             | for the volume. That's it. And that wasn't worth losing the
             | Escape key for. Or function keys for that matter.
             | 
             | But that's so specific that I'd rather just have a volume
             | control. A slider would be ideal but that takes up a lot of
             | space. The best compromise is a "roller" (like on the
             | Corsair K70 keyboard) as you can get precision and speed.
             | You absolutely don't want to repeatedly hit a volume up or
             | down button.
        
               | gerash wrote:
               | I agree that the top row on a macbook keyboard shouldn't
               | be replaced because some of the keys are essential there.
               | 
               | I'm imagining a touch screen right next to the trackpad
               | that displays the short cuts to common functions of the
               | current app that's open.
               | 
               | For example, I don't mind having common controls of, say
               | Google sheets or Photoshop near the keyboard. Maybe the
               | trackpad could be that touchscreen. idk but I feel
               | there's something to explore in this space.
               | 
               | Or alternatively, individual keys on a keyboard can be
               | LCD screens and show you app specific controls. this way
               | you get the haptic feedback too.
        
           | tpmoney wrote:
           | Ridiculous, iPhones are getting cheaper all the time.
           | Yesterday a base model iPhone 15 was $799, today it's $699.
           | In 2022 a base model iPhone 14 was also $799, today that same
           | phone is $599. Sure today the iPhone 15 is no longer the top
           | of the line model, but that phone is absolutely cheaper today
           | than it was yesterday, and if it was good enough at that
           | price yesterday, there's no reason it's not good enough at a
           | cheaper price today. Either the new features are compelling
           | additions that make it worth spending more money on or
           | they're added "simply to make it more expensive", in which
           | case the 15 is right there, 12.5% cheaper today than it was
           | 24 hours ago.
           | 
           | > The Macbook Air was fantastic because it was cheap. For
           | Apple it was too cheap. So we got Touch bar. Did it solve any
           | user problems?
           | 
           | Do you remember the same Macbook Air I do? The first one was
           | $1,799 retail, and probably the biggest complaint in reviews
           | was that it was too expensive for what it was. The MBA didn't
           | drop below $1000 until 4 revisions later with the
           | introduction of the 11 inch model. In 2014 that dropped to
           | $899 for the 11 inch model. The cheapest the 13 inch model
           | ever got was $999 for the last intel and the first M1 model.
           | Today it's $1099, hardly a change from the "too cheap" $999
           | of its heyday. Also to the best of my knowledge, no MBAs
           | shipped with a touch bar.
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | > If the iPhone would have true user-swappable batteries, their
         | business would collapse.
         | 
         | Don't underestimate the power of marketing.
        
         | AOsborn wrote:
         | Absolutely agree.
         | 
         | I'd say this goes one step further. We hand down older devices
         | to our parents. They are completely happy with a device several
         | generations back. The current product philosophy has completely
         | cut them out as purchasers. They are product users, but will
         | never purchase again.
         | 
         | In fact, without planned obsolescence/battery degradation I
         | suspect they would be happy never replacing their phones until
         | they physically broke. It's a shame that they continually slow
         | down to such a degree - the decreased speed is actually the
         | only Apple 'feature' they notice.
        
         | bastijn wrote:
         | Im there with you, my wife as well as myself are in fact like
         | your girlfriend and I work an highly educated software
         | engineering role. I simply don't care, still on my iPhone 11
         | Pro Max which I got as a present from my parents at the time.
         | 
         | I think battery power drain is even not fast enough for phone
         | companies to sustain the selling Model. My guess is sooner or
         | later they realize the real control point is software updates
         | and they forcefully shorten OS and specially OS security
         | updates under a bullshit reason they still can get away with to
         | get us all back in line of buying regular phone upgrades in
         | fear of hacked internet banking.
        
           | jcgrillo wrote:
           | > sooner or later they realize the real control point is
           | software updates
           | 
           | That's why I'm in the market for an iphone (and a new service
           | provider), my pixel 5a5g got its final "guaranteed" security
           | update in August. Nothing wrong with the device. Time to de-
           | google I guess..
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | Not only when the battery runs bad. That can be renewed
         | (sometimes, my 1st gen SE from the last batch runs the second
         | battery pack, probably the last batch of batteries available).
         | 
         | Also when you are forced by apps you need that want the newest
         | hardware by some reason. I mean when most of them, because some
         | could be missed for a while, but when most you use are just
         | refuse to work, then it is time to get a new one.
         | 
         | Not like you need the new app, it is the same like with the
         | iPhone 'features' you mention, but when your bank app cannot
         | connect the bank when it is the newest version minus 2, then it
         | becomes a nuisance.
         | 
         | Not like I am afraid of tech, I have cool interconnected home
         | appliances built from raspberrys and make my living on
         | developing desktop tools, but the rampage of the mobile
         | industry is just too much to handle. It does not worth the
         | money and time they demand, getting in the way of my life as
         | much as helping it. By now. It was better but getting worse as
         | we speak.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | 5G is rapidly becoming this.
           | 
           | I'm still using a phone that's only a few years old and maxes
           | out at 4G. Lately it's started sporadically losing connection
           | entirely in locations where it previously worked perfectly...
           | meanwhile everyone around me has a five bar 5G signal on
           | their newer models. They've started to do to 4G what they did
           | to E, H and 3G, complete bandwidth reduction to fuckin zero
           | so the latest protocol can hog all frequencies. Planned
           | obsolescence or what? Upgrade or we will slowly reduce your
           | device to a useless brick.
        
             | mihaaly wrote:
             | : (
        
         | ryoshu wrote:
         | My daily is an iPhone 12 Pro and I work on bleeding edge tech
         | daily. I don't need to upgrade. It works fine. Had to replace
         | it when it had a battery problem. There are no features I need
         | from the newer models.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Yeah, okay, hardware releases are incremental now. We get it.
         | 
         | But someone somewhere has a 5 year old phone with a busted
         | screen and a dead battery and it'll be nice for them to get
         | this phone or another similar new, highly capable device. And
         | they'd probably like to know that this 5-year-newer phone has a
         | whole bunch of new capabilities when they spend a big chunk of
         | money replacing a big purchase.
         | 
         | Sure, I don't want to buy a new car. They're expensive and they
         | depreciate. I would like to just keep driving mine, it's fine.
         | But when the time comes that I _do_ buy a new car I _do_ want
         | to know that it has a whole bunch of new, better things than
         | the one I am replacing.
         | 
         | Don't forget that Apple makes the perfect phone for your
         | girlfriend: the iPhone SE. The flashy marketing videos are for
         | high-value high-vanity customers who throw money at them. She
         | could buy that type of low-mid-range phone at $400 and run it
         | into the ground until she is forced to upgrade by hardware
         | failure.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | The software mute was the last thing that made a difference in
         | my day to day usage (but didn't upgrade for it). The next thing
         | I would love and upgrade instantly for is a sealed, waterproof
         | design
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | Man I work in IT as a developer and I have absolutely no clue
         | what most of my devices (can) do, and truth to be told I
         | couldn't care less, because if I need something I find out how
         | to do it.
         | 
         | My main phone is a 2019 Xiaomi midrange phone, and I just can't
         | tell how's the Iphone 14 I use to test our apps should be
         | better, and I played with it some.
         | 
         | I read the economist, hackernews watch some YouTube, play chess
         | and occasionally use messaging apps or check banking stuff.
         | 
         | I couldn't care less about editing photos on a phone nor mobile
         | gaming.
         | 
         | I know I live in a bubble, but I don't see users around me do
         | much more than I do with the phone.
         | 
         | It's not like these products are bad, and I think that people
         | that live on their phone will benefit from all of this. But I'm
         | just not one of them.
        
         | benrutter wrote:
         | I feel the same way, both in the sense of not feeling most
         | features really add value to users, but also in feeling a
         | little ungrateful and guilty for not caring about this kind of
         | innovation.
         | 
         | Recently, I've been valueing repairability more in tech that I
         | buy and it feels like such a breath of fresh air and a bit of
         | an antidote. Particularly, products like fairphone (a smart
         | phone where almost every part can be replaced with a
         | screwdriver) make me really excited, and feel like amazing
         | innovation solving actual problems.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | > It feels ungrateful and cynical to keep calling new models
         | "boring".
         | 
         | The church of American consumerism is so galling to me. This is
         | a trillion dollar corporation that famously involves itself in
         | tax schemes to avoid paying the face value rate that any other
         | smaller corporation would have to pay.
         | 
         | You feel "ungrateful" or "cynical" because they aren't
         | innovating?
         | 
         | Good lord man. Get out of that church.
        
         | jwally wrote:
         | Its like wine. I can tell the difference between a $4 bottle of
         | wine and a $14 bottle of wine, but I couldn't tell the
         | difference between a $14 bottle of wine and a $140 bottle of
         | wine if my life depended on it.
        
           | MarkMarine wrote:
           | I also like wine, but it's rare that I've had a $140 bottle
           | of wine that wasn't actually a $30 bottle, but I was at a
           | restaurant. It is real easy to be underwhelmed by a $30
           | bottle.
           | 
           | I'd also put a bottle of Trader Joe's 2 buck chuck ($4 cab)
           | up against 75% of the $30 bottles and I bet in a blind taste
           | test it would win.
           | 
           | That isn't to say that people's taste buds don't work. I've
           | spent a bit of time tasting wine essentially blind (to price)
           | at vineyards, brought that same wine home and been
           | underwhelmed again... I learned that even 30min in a hot car
           | trunk (140F) can change wine. The wine I tasted from the
           | storage cave that was great, sucks when I got it home. I
           | actually tested after I got it home and saw this.
           | 
           | I think a lot of the "wine flavors being mysterious and
           | psychosomatic" is actually poor storage. I know Reddit
           | disagrees with me, but now that I climate control my wine
           | when I bring it home, I haven't had the same issues.
           | 
           | This is a fact for beer (hoppy beer specifically) that is
           | well known and pasted all over the Russian River Pliny the
           | elder label. I believe it's a fact for wine as well. Because
           | I've had a couple $100 bottles that were stored well, and the
           | memory of that taste is still with me. I want to find a way
           | to repeat it. (Without spending $100 for a bottle)
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | I'm probably a lot like your girlfriend, and I've been in tech
         | for 40+ years. I'm still very active in tech, but I got over
         | being interested in smartphones after my 3rd one, and I was a
         | very early adopter. My needs were satisfied a long time ago. If
         | I have internet access, and can remote into any of my other
         | dozens of machines, the phone has satisfied most of its purpose
         | for me - allowing me to access all of my computing stuff while
         | away from my main computers. Oh, I also take the occasional
         | call on the phone, but that's very, very rare.
         | 
         | The biggest upgrade for me in the last 19 years is the fold-
         | able phone with a much larger screen area. But honestly, the
         | old HTC Wizard that I started with does 80% of what I need a
         | mobile device to do.
         | 
         | I don't need or want AI following me around, especially not in
         | my mobile device.
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | > _"Pretty much they buy the new one when the battery of their
         | current one runs bad, typically every 3-4 years."_
         | 
         | I am exactly like this. But I am also use it as an opportunity
         | to upgrade the hardware.
         | 
         | For some time it was memory, although now I am pretty done for
         | 256gb. I don't need more. Recently it was the new
         | processor+camera. I am not big into photography, but I like to
         | take pictures. And I like them to look great, focused, even
         | with bad light, without doing any setting myself (cause I am
         | ignorant how to do it). Just regular picture of trips, or night
         | with friends. I like the 2x and 0.5x zoom a lot also.
         | 
         | It is also nice for the new updated apps I use to run fast. My
         | 4 yo iPhone SE not only had a bad battery, but it was very slow
         | already.
         | 
         | And, occasionally, some gimmick is actually useful to me, like
         | the notch. I turn off notifications of almost every app,
         | including Uber and food delivery. For those the in-screen info
         | in the notch is very useful.
         | 
         | I'll probably only buy the iPhone 18 next, but it will be nice
         | have the 5x zoom (maybe more by then) at the least.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | For memory I've found that I'm much happier setting up a
           | backup to my machines. Currently I'm on a pixel but looking
           | to switch to iPhone. I do my backups with termux, so does
           | anyone know a good alternative on iPhone? I see termus but it
           | requires an account? Can I access my photos from these
           | emulators? Just being able to have a few bash scripts really
           | empowers these devices.
        
         | mattnewton wrote:
         | People like new and shiny things even if they don't use any of
         | the shiny features. There is a contingent buying new cars every
         | decade- those people are buying iPhones every other year. Apple
         | may not sell the most phones but they do make the most money
         | selling phones.
        
         | 4b11b4 wrote:
         | You shouldn't call your girlfriend a normie, that's harsh
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | "Normie"? Anecdotally and fro personal experience, I'd say the
         | contrary: it's normies that (pushed by advertising budgets
         | bigger than actual product development budgets) are in love
         | with these yearly churn and ditch their Samsung S74 to buy the
         | new and identical Samsung S75.
         | 
         | Tech people, on the over hand, are some of the most borderline
         | luddite people I know (me included!)
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | > You can add a million features to the camera app
         | 
         | there was a huge jump in the quality of my photos when I
         | upgraded to an iPhone 13 (my current) from an iPhone 8. I've
         | seen iPhone 15 photos and they're even better. And I'm not a
         | pro photographer.
        
         | hi_hi wrote:
         | This is missing the point. It's not about the functionality.
         | It's about the marketing.
         | 
         | Apple aren't going to all this effort so you have an amazingly
         | functional product that will solve all your real world needs.
         | They're doing it so you think you need it to solve problem you
         | don't have. Classic FOMO.
        
         | r0fl wrote:
         | Perhaps with Apple intelligence your girlfriend will just be
         | able to tell Siri what she wants the phone to do and it will
         | get done using a feature she never knew she had
        
       | Lio wrote:
       | I'd just a like a spell checker that I can trigger on the first
       | click instead of on 10th.
        
       | zombiwoof wrote:
       | Apple feels like MAGA. Everything is the greatest thinnest
       | fastest ever, with no reality data, and only until next Sept
        
       | usaphp wrote:
       | I love how ridiculous the scene to showcase Apple's Intelligence
       | ability to tell you what bread the dog was.
       | 
       | Instead of simply asking a women what breed her dog was - he had
       | to open a camera app on his iPhone, ask a women a permission to
       | take a photo of the dog, wait until the AI gives him an answer...
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | "Is that rain?" https://youtube.com/watch?v=EP1YAatv1Mc
        
         | evulhotdog wrote:
         | Agreed. Normally Apple finds genuine uses of their features
         | they're intending to market. The guy ended up talking to the
         | person with the dog after, which made the use of the AI a bit
         | of a miss.
         | 
         | It honestly felt like Apple didn't do that scene because
         | normally everything is well thought out.
        
         | paperplatter wrote:
         | It's weird how they pick unrealistic use cases when there are
         | real ones. Last week I saw a nice plant and wanted to buy the
         | same one, so I used Google's image recognition feature.
        
           | kylehotchkiss wrote:
           | Apple already has that in current iOS. Take a picture of a
           | plant, click the little icon in the corner, and it'll pull it
           | up for you.
        
         | siquick wrote:
         | This is a pretty accurate representation of everyday city life
         | in 2024.
        
       | strongpigeon wrote:
       | I'm probably in the minority, but a thing I'd love to see is a
       | much stronger flashlight. It's silly, but the flashlight is
       | something I use almost daily and having a more powerful one would
       | be quite useful.
        
         | rudros wrote:
         | What a random feature request. In case you're not aware, you
         | can open control center, long-press on the flashlight icon and
         | you get to adjust the brightness of the flashlight. If you're
         | not already at the max level, you might get a slightly (but
         | definitely not much) stronger flashlight on your current phone.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | I don't think I'd ever heard about this functionality before,
           | thanks.
        
         | semireg wrote:
         | Except when it's accidentally turned on in your pocket. Ouch!
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | You'd think they could use all of the sensors on the phone to
           | detect this
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | I agree. It would be so easy to turn it from a book light into
         | something actually useful.
        
       | davidy123 wrote:
       | I've been an Android user since day 1, but am very impressed by
       | some of these features. I'd love to have the half-click to focus
       | feature and other dedicated camera button features, macro, a few
       | other things that put this generation in a next category. I'd
       | like to see them catch up and surpass all of Google's onboard AI
       | features, and it looks like they're working on it. Being able to
       | find a section of a video by a vague description, all on-device,
       | is incredible. And they're finally improving their photo app. If
       | Apple offered call screening, ambient song
       | identification/logging, and allowed browsers to support
       | extensions, I'd be tempted to switch, especially since they have
       | a clearer privacy story. I'm glad strong competition is
       | continuing, especially around privacy.
        
         | talldayo wrote:
         | > I'm glad strong competition is continuing, especially around
         | privacy.
         | 
         | Until Apple releases an iOS platform equivocal to AOSP, there's
         | really not any competition at all. Apple claims to care about
         | privacy, Google proves they do.
        
           | njbentley1 wrote:
           | I disagree.
           | 
           | Google's entire business model is dependent on personal data.
           | AOSP may have privacy features that are verifiable but Google
           | Play Services is not open source and undoubtedly collect lots
           | of data for Google. Most AOSP-based phones all largely
           | include GPS. Sure, you can limit what access GPS has but then
           | you're sacrificing features. The majority of people probably
           | opt-in.
           | 
           | In contrast, Apple doesn't need your data for most of the
           | products / services they sell. Privacy is a selling point, so
           | they're incentivized to build robust privacy features. I'd
           | love to see more commitment to open-sourcing underlying
           | technologies but imo Apple is way more privacy conscious than
           | Google.
           | 
           | I will however give Google credit for their privacy
           | initiatives in recent years. They seem to be taking it more
           | seriously.
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | > Google Play Services is not open source and undoubtedly
             | collect lots of data for Google
             | 
             | Google Play services is not everything though, and Android
             | being what it is, you can actually replace and spoof most
             | of these features to your heart's content. Having used
             | Android without Play Services for a few years now, I honest
             | to god do not notice the difference. microG coming
             | preinstalled on most Android derivatives helps a lot there.
             | 
             | > Privacy is a selling point, so they're incentivized to
             | build robust privacy features.
             | 
             | Problem is, that's a tautology. Apple _says_ that, and
             | certainly stand to gain quite a bit from claiming it. But
             | nobody is holding them accountable besides themselves; if
             | Apple was asked to compromise their privacy by a third
             | party, their users may never know. Nobody can earnestly say
             | that iOS is a comparatively private operating system,
             | because we _literally cannot see_ how it behaves!
             | 
             | Apple's approach to "privacy" is publishing whitepapers and
             | then absolving themselves of real accountability. That's
             | how they approached iPhone security, that's how they
             | approached Mac security, and lord only knows how they
             | approach iCloud security. When you say that Apple is
             | "privacy conscious", you mean to say they market privacy
             | better. You don't know how conscious Apple is of privacy,
             | you only know what they claim to be true.
             | 
             | As I said; it's not a competition. Marketing-based security
             | is not a threat model; transparency is.
        
           | kanbara wrote:
           | i actually dont know how you can say this with a straight
           | face
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | I don't know how you can include "Apple" and "privacy" in
             | the same sentence without some kind of source code to back
             | it up.
        
               | veber-alex wrote:
               | How does source code backs Google privacy claims?
               | 
               | AOSP so different than even Google own pixel phones it's
               | code is basically irrelevant.
        
               | talldayo wrote:
               | It's an option. AOSP isn't identical to OEM-distributed
               | ROMs, but it's certainly a great basis for private OSes
               | like CalyxOS and GrapheneOS. For individuals that are
               | serious about privacy, there aren't any options to
               | compile your own iOS with Apple services disabled.
               | 
               | I'm not saying that the AOSP absolves all of Google's
               | server-side behavior (or even that it proves they're
               | benevolent; neither company is). My point is that Google
               | presents a realistic threat model to their users, that
               | takes them seriously and even provides escape hatches for
               | any potentially concerning features. iOS presents a
               | comparatively cartoonish outlook that relies more on the
               | strength of their marketing than the self-evidence of
               | their security. Apple's position is indefensible but
               | claims to be altruistic; Google's position is honest, so
               | much that it treats themselves as a threat.
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | Are you running AOSP without GMS?
        
       | callalex wrote:
       | No user-replaceable battery even though that's a consumable/wear
       | item?
       | 
       | They even invited "Mother Earth" herself to their last
       | presentation to talk about how much they care about the planet!
       | Were they just lying to our faces then?
        
       | pama wrote:
       | The battery specs are not in the press release, but you can find
       | them at the very bottom of this page:
       | https://www.apple.com/iphone-16-pro/
       | 
       | Up to 33 hours video playback on iPhone 16 Pro Max8
       | 
       | Up to 27 hours video playback on iPhone 16 Pro8
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | AirPods are still Apple's best product. Depending on your ear
       | shape, you might find that regular AirPods fall out and AirPods
       | Pro with their silicon tips work better, or that silicon-tipped
       | earbuds like the AirPods Pro don't fit well and only the regular
       | AirPods stay in place. It's great that Apple is finally adding
       | ANC to regular AirPods so people have options.
        
       | cmcaleer wrote:
       | Phishing email operators rejoice: Apple still are not showing
       | emails in the Mail app, and will even scan your phishing email
       | and rephrase it while recognising and pushing it as a priority
       | notification.
       | 
       | I actually like the idea, but I worry a lot that it will lead to
       | non tech-savvy (and tech-savvy-but-hurried) people to getting
       | rekt. It's still obscene to me that they don't show the sender's
       | email before clicking in. It not only removes valuable
       | information to screen emails with, but if there are tracking
       | pixels, they fire since you must open the email for further
       | screening. (Sender email can ofc be spooked, but this catches
       | most spam I get)
        
       | tmaly wrote:
       | I am not seeing a real benefit to upgrading. I wish I could just
       | swap in a new battery myself once I have gone through enough
       | charging cycles.
       | 
       | I just upgraded to an iPhone 15 pro from an iPhone 13 pro a few
       | months ago.
       | 
       | Honestly, I felt like the iPhone 13 pro had better battery life.
       | 
       | My friend confirmed the same thing between a regular iPhone 14
       | and iPhone 14 Pro.
       | 
       | Not sure if it is software or hardware or both.
        
         | chrismatheson wrote:
         | You can. I took my 13mini to Apple paid the Apple tax and now
         | I'm happy to not be forced into a uncomfortably larger physical
         | device for at least mother year or two
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Why would you see the benefit to upgrading when you just
         | upgraded to the previous model? That's an unreasonable
         | expectation. That would be like complaining that the 2025
         | Toyota Camry isn't good enough to upgrade to from your 2024
         | model. Of course it's not!
         | 
         | I also really don't understand what the hangup is with the
         | batteries.
         | 
         | You bought a $1000 phone, $99 to get a new battery is
         | reasonable.
         | 
         | I get it, the cost should be $20 and it shoulde be an easy DIY
         | job, but it seems like you're actively refusing the solution.
         | You undoubtedly spent more to upgrade to the 15 Pro than to
         | replace the battery in your 13 Pro.
        
       | smcleod wrote:
       | I'm a little disappointed they all only have 8GB of RAM, I would
       | have thought that with the world of AI we're all living in now
       | we'd get at least 12GB for our $1850-$2850.
        
       | nisten wrote:
       | How much RAM?
        
       | djhworld wrote:
       | I have a 15 Pro Max and I like it, I actually switched from
       | Android last year so I've only been in the iPhone world for a
       | short while.
       | 
       | The camera button/gesture thing on this new model seems decent
       | but none of the features really seem that compelling to upgrade,
       | the "visual intelligence" which is supposedly reserved for the 16
       | models just seems like Google Lens with maybe tighter integration
       | with the OS features.
       | 
       | Additonally the 16 doesn't have more RAM which I thought they
       | might have done given the local LLM models, so not really a
       | compelling upgrade.
        
       | raydev wrote:
       | For fun, revisit the iPhone 6 announcement thread on HN[1],
       | coincidentally posted 10 years ago today. I love going back to
       | these to see how people responded.
       | 
       | The more things change...
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8292029
        
         | just_tubes wrote:
         | What a wonderful perspective. Feels like we're talking about
         | the same topics.
        
         | brcmthrowaway wrote:
         | What an archive. I wonder if who is still posting from 10 years
         | ago
        
       | eigenvalue wrote:
       | I get so much utility from my iPhone that it's worth many times
       | what it costs to me. So I've been on the upgrade program since it
       | came out and get the new model every year. I always look forward
       | to getting the new phone, even though at this point the
       | improvements are incremental. But it's very much worth it to me
       | just to get better looking videos and photos of my small
       | children. And stuff like better battery life has obvious utility.
       | I'm just on my phone so much of the day and use it for so many
       | different things that having it be a few percent better in a
       | bunch of categories is a no brainer. And it's often more than
       | just a few percent!
        
       | thom wrote:
       | Does the new camera button thingy happen to be a fingerprint
       | scanner as well? I live in a constant state of rage with Face ID,
       | longing for my iPhone 8 Plus with its Home button and the ability
       | to pay for things in one fluid motion.
        
         | winstonp wrote:
         | It's not. Your problems with Face ID seem to be of a super
         | minority of users -- 99% of people I know have no problems with
         | it.
        
           | thom wrote:
           | It's not a blocker, just that it's strictly more work, every
           | single time.
        
         | jacobn wrote:
         | The fact that they have touch id on some of the ipad side power
         | buttons, but not on the iphone, is so annoying. Face id is both
         | great and terrible, and complementing it with touch id to cover
         | the >5% of cases where face id fails would be such an
         | improvement.
        
         | usaphp wrote:
         | How is using face id for payments not a fluid motion? Double
         | click on the side button and it's ON to make payments, no need
         | to do anything else. While on Touch ID you have to first
         | initiate the payment and then unlock with a finger (2 steps)?
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Touch ID works faster for me. I have it on the iPad and Mac
           | and it's good. Face ID frequently fails, especially if I'm in
           | bed.
        
           | thom wrote:
           | With Face ID you have to take your phone out, double click,
           | then hold it up to your face and wait for it to work, then
           | hold it out to do a contactless payment. With Touch ID you
           | just take your phone out of your pocket with your thumb on
           | the home button and pay instantly (you don't have to initiate
           | anything).
        
             | thom wrote:
             | Even if you're just paying on the phone, the double side
             | click plus wait is a wacky gesture to make compared to just
             | moving your thumb down a bit.
        
       | _ph_ wrote:
       | May be not an earth-shattering update vs. the 15, but overall a
       | lot of improvements. Probably more so for the plain iPhone 16, as
       | it gets the A18 SOC, the Pro seems to have mainly one CPU core
       | more.
       | 
       | As I am on an iPhone 13 Pro Max, still in total absolutely a
       | worthy upgrade for me. I certainly look forward to it. The
       | advantages vs the 15 I can see so far:
       | 
       | - updated SOC, somewhat faster, but up to 30% more power-
       | efficient which turns into
       | 
       | - larger battery life. Thats something everyone will welcome, I
       | guess.
       | 
       | - better camera: 48mp wide angle, 120mm tele lens, 4k 120 Hz.
       | 
       | - a bit larger screen, too bad they at least didn't name any
       | other screen enhancements
       | 
       | - the shutter button. A ton of functionality built into one
       | single button. Pressure/touch sensitivity, haptical feedback.
       | That should greatly improve its usage as a camera.
       | 
       | - all the AI stuff. We need to wait how it delivers, when it
       | arrives (especially, if you are outside the US), but that could
       | get interesting when it delivers.
       | 
       | While there wasn't any big surprise or outstanding change, for a
       | year over year update a lot of things and definitely very nice
       | for everyone with an older phone than the 15.
        
       | KoolKat23 wrote:
       | They mention battery life in this release 11 times without saying
       | how long the battery will last. Please Apple, even just a typical
       | usage number would be great.
       | 
       | It's been many generations since I've had an Apple device, and
       | each year they release a new one I try figure out how long the
       | battery lasts, to no avail. Nobody I know has bought a Max Pro
       | either.
       | 
       | With Apple, you never know, it could still be 10 hours battery
       | life. I mean they just released "ground-breaking" features like
       | moveable icons, something I think Android had since Android 1. My
       | point is one never knows.
        
         | jacobn wrote:
         | The only number I could find was 22/27 hours of video playback
         | for 16/16 Pro, you can compare that to older models on
         | https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ that might give some
         | indication?
        
           | KoolKat23 wrote:
           | Thanks this is perfect. That's really decent battery life.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | Still no user-replaceable battery even though they claim to
         | care about the environment.
        
       | zdw wrote:
       | Finally, they've matched the Zune in excellent color choices.
        
       | jacobn wrote:
       | So a lot of Apple Intelligence is still vaporware then?
       | 
       | From [1] "Additional Apple Intelligence features will roll out
       | later this year and in the months following", i.e. later in 2024
       | and then in 2025, and the not-available-at-launch features appear
       | to be the stronger ones, e.g. ChatGPT integration?
       | 
       | Any word on improving the dictate-to-text keyboard feature? I
       | could only find "In the Notes and Phone apps, users can also
       | record, transcribe, and summarize audio", but that's different.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/09/apple-debuts-
       | iphone-1...
        
       | peterweyand38 wrote:
       | And I would pay a thousand dollars for this as opposed to finding
       | a used earlier generation model for fifty bucks why? It's hard to
       | tell if this is supposed to be satire or not.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | You probably can't even find an original iPhone for $50.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | >6.3 inches on iPhone 16 Pro and 6.9 inches on iPhone 16 Pro Max
       | -- the largest iPhone display ever.
       | 
       | People want this? My current 6.7 14promax is already in hindsight
       | too big for single hand operation.
       | 
       | Realistically I'm probably skipping 16 anyway. Top end 14 is
       | still adequate for everything I need
        
       | redbell wrote:
       | You know what really caught my attention with the 16 Pro Max? The
       | 6.9-inch display, with a resolution of 1320x2868 pixels [1]!
       | However, I'm a bit skeptical about this choice. A 6.9-inch screen
       | size is quite rare in the smartphone world [2]. Samsung tried
       | something similar back in 2020 with its S20 Ultra (and Note 20
       | Ultra), only to revert to 6.8 inches with the S21 Ultra the
       | following year--and they haven't looked back since. Why? I'm not
       | entirely sure, but I've heard some say the size was just _too_
       | big.
       | 
       | So, will Apple be the one to make this a new industry standard
       | for flagship devices, like they did with the removal of the 3.5mm
       | headphone jack or excluding the charger from the box? Perhaps,
       | but for now, I remain cautiously skeptical.
       | 
       | _____________________________
       | 
       | 1. Apple hasn't officially listed the display resolution on the
       | iPhone 16 Pro Max's product page, but thankfully, GSMArena has
       | all the technical details available:
       | https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_16_pro_max-13123.php.
       | 
       | 2. AFAIK, aside from Samsung, only two other major brands have
       | experimented with this display size: Motorola, with its Razr 50
       | Ultra (2024), and Huawei, with the Pocket (2022).
        
       | lofaszvanitt wrote:
       | The faster new 6-core GPU in A18 Pro delivers stunning visuals
       | for next-level gaming, benefitting games like Death Stranding.
       | ----
       | 
       | Hm, Death Stranding in the official article? :DDDDDDD
        
       | wkirby wrote:
       | Give me a new mini. I'm begging you.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-09 23:00 UTC)