[HN Gopher] Apple Hearing Study shares preliminary insights on t...
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Apple Hearing Study shares preliminary insights on tinnitus
Author : mgh2
Score : 233 points
Date : 2024-09-09 17:36 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| cromka wrote:
| Wonder how will they deal with AirPods themselves losing ability
| to emit frequencies over time, to prevent false
| positives/negatives. AFIK they continue to replace AirPods after
| testing them for sound being out of range.
| jerlam wrote:
| Do the Airpods perform some kind of self-diagnostic to confirm
| that it can emit needed frequencies for the hearing test? It
| would be a PR nightmare if Apple was giving diagnoses for
| hearing loss, when in reality people were being asked to hear a
| sound that the Airpods could not emit.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Pretty sure they will simply tell you to have a professional
| hearing test done.
| fwip wrote:
| Anecdotally, it can be a very distressing experience. When I
| was in elementary school I had a hearing test, and as the
| test went on I could hear fewer and fewer of the tones. The
| nurse got increasingly surprised and worried, "really, you
| can't hear that? what about this one? really?" I was nearly
| in tears, thinking that I was nearly deaf and somehow didn't
| know.
|
| Turns out my hearing was fine - the batteries in the hand-
| held device were nearly dead. (I do have some auditory-
| processing difficulties, but those were not measured by this
| test.)
| raverbashing wrote:
| This sounds like it's caused by "naturally" accumulated gunk
| over time
| Eumenes wrote:
| Interesting, so Apple is providing the cause (Airpods) and
| treatment (Airpods) for tinnitus!
| acdha wrote:
| Where did you see cause? The paragraph in that section mentions
| noise but that seems like a weird criticism of a product which
| has a bunch of features to prevent excessive noise exposure.
| What would be more interesting to me would be research into
| whether in-ear designs or active noise cancellation correlate
| with this at all since those are something humans didn't evolve
| with.
| kmfrk wrote:
| It's in reference to conversations like this:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35023808.
| ycombinete wrote:
| Cynically I did wonder if they're using Jennifer Lawrence's
| arsehole trick to confound the search results for "Apple
| AirPods Tinnitus".
| snakeyjake wrote:
| All modern iPhones, when paired with Airpods, monitor listening
| volume levels and advise you if you are exposing yourself to
| too loud a volume too often.
|
| This information is tracked via the Health app.
|
| I do not know if other devices have the ability to monitor
| this, but I have had the feature turned on since it was
| released, at OSHA 8-hour exposure safe limits.
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| As far as I know, Airpods were the first to have noise level
| alerts built in, using an internal microphone etc.
| outside415 wrote:
| the newer generations of AirPods absolutely trigger tinnitus for
| me. The gen 1 AirPod Pros are the best. I really have to crank
| the volume to trigger it. The Gen 2 AirPod Pros are the worst.
| Even low volumes rip apart my ears. Constant ringing all of the
| time. The USB-C Airpod Pros Gen 2 are ok at low to mid volumes,
| can't use them at high volumes what so ever though, they also let
| in a terrible amount of wind noise for outdoor activity which
| makes them unusable since turning up the volume to mute the wind
| noise causes tinnitus for me.
|
| The AirPod Pro Max also get too loud, they are ok at low to mid
| volumes, high volumes = extreme tinnitus.
|
| HomePods are similar, I can only have them on at volume levels I
| appreciate for short periods of time or I get tinnitus.
|
| Compare this with my old sennheisers and audeze headphones, 0
| tinnitus even at extreme volumes. Similar for my in ear Mochi
| headphones.
|
| Or compare the HomePods to my Panasonic Surround Sound Speakers
| for my TV from 12 years ago that I still use, I can make the
| walls shake with no tinnitus. If I turn up my homepods to a
| volume close to that my ears will be ringing for hours or days
| after. It really bums me out, I wish I understood what is
| changing about the technology. Like are they going from Analog to
| Digital and is digital more harsh or something? I don't know.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| There have been theories about ANC headphones, earphones, and
| in-ear-monitors causing tinnitus over the years, but nothing
| concrete with evidence.
| smokel wrote:
| There are also theories that they will prevent tinnitus
| because one can play music at a lower volume and still enjoy
| it.
| outside415 wrote:
| I don't have tinnitus on most of my devices at medium to
| high volumes. only apple devices and more recently built
| wireless in ear monitors. victim blaming is great though.
|
| I personally like to pick apart all of the layers of music
| and hear all of the nuance/production. At low volume this
| is generally not possible. Not all of us have audiophile
| tendencies though I suppose.
| pfranz wrote:
| I think the point the parent was trying to make was that
| when using ANC you likely listen to things using a lower
| volume setting--reducing the chance you'll develop
| tinnitus. Without ANC what you're listening to competes
| with what's around you and you're likely going to keep
| the volume higher. I immediately noticed I was using a
| lower volume when I first used some headphones with ANC.
|
| I've head some people suggest using AirPods Pro with ANC
| as a form of hearing protection at concerts--I think
| Apple might have even mentioned that in today's
| presentation.
| cma wrote:
| Yeah, they should lower the noise floor and allow same
| dynamic range at lower volume, just like Apple touts here
| for the new AI noise cancellation (which also mentions they
| use eartips for part of the reduction).
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| You can also set max volume levels which has helped me
| listen to music at more reasonable volumes.
| sureIy wrote:
| What do you do when that piece starts and you remember
| you don't really care about anything anymore and you just
| need some of that energy shot into your brain at the
| highest volume possible even if it hurts?
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| The burden of evidence should be on the side who wants us to
| put their electromagnetic devices in our body-cavities.
|
| To put it less bluntly: even if there is no evidence of harm,
| one can rationally decide to avoid these products out of
| caution.
| nabla9 wrote:
| "triggered" tinnitus from in-ear headphones or normal
| headphones is not necessarily from the sound level. Try to
| massage ears (pull earlobes forward, back, up down, and massage
| muscles around ears) head and jaw muscles. Stretch your neck
| muscles.
|
| If you do it from time to time and tinnitus eases even a
| little, it might come from how the AirPods or headphones press
| your ear or head causing tensions.
| extr wrote:
| I have mild tinnitus and the best advice I've ever read on the
| internet for it is: Stop reading. Don't look up information about
| tinnitus. Don't think about it. If you happen to notice it, try
| to distract yourself immediately. There maybe legitimate hearing
| damage but for the psychological aspect, the more you think about
| it the worse it becomes. I think I saw a quora answer somewhere
| where the doctor said "Nobody complains about tinnitus while
| playing Playstation". And it's very true. Until this post just
| now, I hadn't thought about it in weeks (months?).
| brainzap wrote:
| true, once you learn about something you tend to focus on it.
| Once I associated my neighbours noise with a positive thoughts
| I stopped to notice it.
| ljf wrote:
| This! Said it before here but also consider than right next to
| each ear drum is a huge artery. When you run you might hear
| your heart beating in your ears, but generally we totally tune
| it out. But it is always there.
|
| Once I realised that I could also tune out tinnitus, I did just
| that - but a big part of that was just not thinking about
| it/dwelling on it.
|
| Been nearly 20 years now and tinnitus rarely troubles me, in
| the way it used to really upset and stress me.
| jfoutz wrote:
| Decades ago I read about NASA's silent room, with the big
| wood spikes on the walls. All you can hear is your heartbeat
| and this high pitched whine. NASA figured out the high
| pitched whine was the nervous system (like, your brain).
|
| I've got some mild tinnitus. I always wonder if it's my brain
| listening to itself. That little recursive loop is enough to
| distract me, even if it's not true.
| ray_v wrote:
| what if the brain just runs an, "event loop" and the
| frequency is just the sample rate for responding to events?
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| That would require synchronous processing. In reality you
| have a trillion async threads.
| voisin wrote:
| > NASA figured out the high pitched whine was the nervous
| system (like, your brain).
|
| I'd love to know more about this if you have any info to
| share.
| codr7 wrote:
| Nada Yoga might give some information as well, it's not a
| new idea.
| jfoutz wrote:
| I wish I could find a better source. My memory is of a
| wired article, on paper. This touches on the "hiss" from
| the nervous system -
| https://www.americanscientist.org/article/quietest-
| places-in...
| derekerdmann wrote:
| It's self-oscillating
| knowitnone wrote:
| but that would mean everyone should have tinnitus but not
| everyone does. I certainly never had it until midlife.
| Sammi wrote:
| Maybe the cognitive ability to tune it out is what's
| failing. Old worn down brain issues.
| gessha wrote:
| Wait, what happens if the high pitched whine is always
| there when you're in a somewhat quiet place? Is that still
| the nervous system?
| Aaronstotle wrote:
| I always wondered why I could hear my heart beating so hard
| when I would go on a run, especially pronounced wearing ear-
| buds.
| meindnoch wrote:
| 1. Earbuds muffle external sounds, so you'll more likely
| notice internal sounds, like swallowing or your heartbeat:
|
| 2. Earbuds fill your ear canal, and as your ear canal
| flexes slightly due to your heartbeat, the earbud rubs
| against the skin inside your ear, and you hear that.
| knowitnone wrote:
| stronger heart contractions and increased dilation during
| exercise therefore ear innards picks up on this?
| neilv wrote:
| Yep, of course I noticed mine as soon as I saw the article
| title.
|
| Some days it's noticeable on its own, and on rare occasions,
| it's annoying.
|
| I avoid alcohol, caffeine, heavy sodium, and (when possible)
| heavy stress, since I've heard those might be contributors.
|
| I also try to avoid really loud noises (but that's impossible
| where I live in the city right now, and is an almost daily
| 'adventure').
| jader201 wrote:
| Or further, if you do read stuff about it and start thinking
| about it, don't sweat it.
|
| You'll eventually stop thinking about it, and life will go on.
|
| When I first started dealing with tinnitus, it sucked. Until I
| realized it didn't.
|
| Would I rather not have it? Sure. But life is not near as bad
| as I thought it would be at first, and I'm perfectly fine
| several years after it started.
| Twirrim wrote:
| "Don't sweat it" is the most important thing, I've found,
| especially with tinnitus.
|
| As with a number of things, I've found I can actually move
| the needle when I give myself grace to fail, as long as I can
| genuinely try again and resolve to do better. A recent
| example being stopping telling myself I'm tired in the
| morning. Such a bad habit that self perpetuated. I was always
| feeling tired, in part, because I was telling myself I was
| tired.
|
| Chewing fingernails on the other hand, damn... that hasn't
| worked so far because I give myself grace, but never really
| resolve to do better. Someday I'll figure that out.
| seper8 wrote:
| I've heard people apply a foul tasting chemicals to their
| fingers for a while to help condition yourself to not bite
| on them.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Re fingernails: I bought keep a set of sharp fingernail
| clippers at my work desk. Any time I notice my fingernails
| being more than tiny, I neatly trim them. It turns out I
| mainly just couldn't abide having long fingernails. When I
| stopped having them, I stopped reflexively nipping at them.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Meditation helped me shift from resistance to acceptance.
| When it's quiet and still in the room and I hear The Whine, I
| greet it. "Hi there, little Eeeeeee!" _For me_ , that demotes
| it to an innocuous background sensation no worse, or even
| different, than realizing that oh, my foot is pushing against
| the floor. Fighting it is futile. Accepting it let me stop
| caring about it.
|
| Of course I don't claim that's the universal fix for
| everyone. It sure helped me.
| ipsento606 wrote:
| When I first started experiencing tinnitus, it was a
| nightmare. I'm a naturally anxious, catastrophizing person.
| All the reading I did about it made it so, so much worse,
| both in terms of perceived severity of symptoms and
| psychological impact. It had a profound effect on my life. I
| genuinely had intrusive, obsessive "I'll never be happy
| again" type thoughts.
|
| A few years later, it has basically zero impact on my life. I
| am not aware of it 99.9% of the time, and when I am aware of
| it, I don't go down the same psychological rabbit holes, and
| I quickly and reliably move out of awareness of it.
|
| Obviously, everyone's experiences and particular symptoms are
| different. But I think it's really, really important to
| spread the message that it really _can_ be a mild, almost
| inconsequential condition, for many people - even anxious,
| dare-I-say neurotic people.
|
| There was no single silver-bullet treatment path for me, but
| a combination of very normal, mundane things like therapy,
| relaxation (massage, hot baths, exercise) and limited use of
| safe levels of white noise helped me. Perhaps the biggest
| thing was shrinking my time horizon from "how can I live the
| rest of my life like this?" to "how can I enjoy today as best
| as I can?"
|
| The internet is full of horror stories from people, often
| written during their darkest moments, about how awful it can
| be. I could easily have written a hopeless, dark, scary
| account of my symptoms when I was at my lowest points.
|
| Reading such accounts is of absolutely no utility to anyone.
| If anyone is struggling with this condition, I highly advise
| you to avoid reading such material at all costs. Try to
| maintain an awareness of the millions upon millions of people
| for whom tinnitus is a mild, transitory condition they almost
| never think about (and, as a consequence, never write about
| their experiences on the internet)
| Natsu wrote:
| Did you ever try massaging the back of your head & neck
| specifically? That seems to work well for me.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| yes, like many common chronic diseases there is a significant
| psychological/anxiety component. i have noticed the exact same
| about my tinnitus
| 2f0ja wrote:
| You're absolutely right, there is a weird 'information hazard'
| component to tinnitus. It's like losing 'the game'.
| d1sxeyes wrote:
| Oh come ON
| matrix2003 wrote:
| I think information might be the wrong word, but there is a
| big attention component.
| iamjackg wrote:
| I think the commenter you're replying to is just annoyed
| at having lost the game.
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| If you're suffering from potentially-unwanted social
| constructs, you should update your infohazard signature
| database. https://xkcd.com/391/
| rustcleaner wrote:
| >You're free
|
| No I'm very expensive. Pay up!
| echelon wrote:
| Was _" The Game"_ just a millennial fad? I don't see it
| mentioned anywhere anymore.
| codetrotter wrote:
| Yeah more or less.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| People just got really good at it. As a meme, the Game is
| sort of self destructive that way.
| rumdz wrote:
| I lost. You just ruined my longest "winning" streak ever.
| Sakos wrote:
| It's also a decent but annoying indicator for stress, lack of
| sleep and fatigue. If it's particularly loud, I know I'm
| tired.
| rustcleaner wrote:
| Happily ignorant of 'the game' reporting in! :^)
|
| (I grew up on 4chan and know better than to check back here
| for replies. Nice idea though!)
| throwaway290 wrote:
| To add to that I remember some kinds of tinnitus are actually
| caused by tension in neck/shoulder muscles. So relaxation can
| literally fix it
| 101008 wrote:
| This applies to a lot of problems where you don't have control
| and can't do much as well. Sometimes ignoring some problems is
| the best solution.
| smusamashah wrote:
| Is this true for other things? I have started getting motion
| sick from some video games and noticed that it becomes worse if
| I am thinking/worrying about it.
|
| Last bad sickness hit was from Sable and Anti Chamber. There
| are few other indie games that effect me similarly. I thought
| it's lack of textures or crosshair in indie games, or may be
| it's the camera movement or both, not sure. But now, when
| playing first person games, i find myself worrying if it will
| make me sick. More I think, more I feel it. Yesterday I felt
| sick after playing Alien Isolation for the first time. It had
| textures, a crosshair, but camera was janky which made me
| worried and more I thought about it, worse it got and I end up
| deleting the game.
| TylerE wrote:
| For me it's a combo of bad camera, head bob, and tight indoor
| areas that are hard to navigate without lots of backtracking
| and turning around.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| I've got a strong pulsatile tinnitus1, which means I can hear a
| strong whooshing sound (like wind) matched to the rhythm of my
| heartbeat. It's in my right ear and lasts all day, all night,
| day in and day out for the last three or four years. When I
| tell people about it, I like to compare it to the Edgar Allan
| Poe story "The Tell-Tale Heart," where the narrator hears the
| heartbeat of a person he murdered coming from beneath the
| floorboards, and it grows louder and louder. Then I laugh it
| off and say "at least I'm not that crazy!"
|
| Jokes aside, my tinnitus used to bother me horribly. It used to
| be all I could focus on, not just because it's loud and
| distracting at times, but because it triggered a severe case of
| health anxiety2. I went through my regular GP, who referred me
| to an otolaryngologist and audiologist; that person found
| nothing physically wrong with my ear (which is usually the case
| for tinnitus) and referred me for an MRI; the MRI threw a big
| wrench in the works by discovering a brain tumor which turned
| out to be benign - a simple pituitary tumor which I just need
| to keep an eye on every few years. But again, still not the
| cause of the tinnitus.
|
| Anyway, long story short, no cause was ever found for me
| suddenly developing this pulsatile tinnitus nearly overnight.
| It took a couple months to adapt to the new, constant sound in
| my ear, but I hardly notice it anymore unless I'm straining to
| hear something3. When I'm focusing on something like playing a
| video game, watching tv or listening to an audiobook, I don't
| notice the tinnitus at all. If the sound really starts to bug
| me, I've saved some brown noise tracks on YouTube that are
| particularly effective at drowning out the frequency of the
| whooshing sound.
|
| 1 I also have the "regular", high-pitched whistling tinnitus,
| but I've had that most of my life.
|
| 2 I've always had a health anxiety, learned behavior from my
| mother. This post makes me sound like a basket case, but I
| promise I'm a fully functional adult and these ailments I'm
| describing are trifles at the moment!
|
| 3 My wife and I have started to get into birding, so it does
| interfere a bit with my ability to hear some birds. More
| specifically, it interferes with my ability to locate where
| they are, I can't quite figure out if they're above me or
| behind me sometimes.
| ajkjk wrote:
| props for the effort on the footnotes
| danielskogly wrote:
| If you like footnotes and stories about tinnitus, I have
| this one for you :)
|
| https://blog.klungo.no/2023/09/12/the-washing-machine-in-
| my-...
| bob1029 wrote:
| I think your stress level can be a significant part of how you
| perceive it.
|
| Blood pressure and muscle tension seem to be primary factors in
| my perception of tinnitus.
| SkyBelow wrote:
| Your brain is constantly sensing things that you don't perceive
| because it is quickly filtered out. My guess is that tinnitus,
| at least at low levels, works much the same. So the more you
| think about it, the more you focus on perceiving in, the less
| your brain will automatically filter out the mild sensation,
| thus the worse it gets.
| denvaar wrote:
| Sadly, I have found this to be true for many things. Not
| dismissing any real, physical aspect, but there's always a
| psychological aspect that comes into play as well.
| hooverd wrote:
| "Ganbare!" doesn't make for particularly good advocacy though.
| It's a condition that by itself isn't life threatening, can be
| linked to lifestyle choices, and mostly doesn't affect
| children, so no halo effect.
| calini wrote:
| Got mild tinnitus in 2016 after an ear infection, and for about
| 1 year I was really bummed out about it. Then I guess I learnt
| to ignore it and sort of "forgot" about it. Now if I am
| reminded about it (thank you :) ), I can 'concentrate' on it
| and realise it's still there in some capacity, but otherwise I
| go on about my day no problem and don't think about it.
| nostromo wrote:
| My tinnitus got particularly bad during Covid.
|
| Did my hearing get worse? No, I was mostly at home.
|
| The problem is my home office is too quiet. So now I open a
| window or put on some natural sounds or music and it goes away.
|
| Those two things all but cured my tinnitus: 1. not obsessing
| about it and 2. avoid silent spaces
| m463 wrote:
| absolutely.
|
| and forget about the hum the air conditioner in the house
| makes. Or that buzzing from the lights. hmmm... your computer
| isn't actually silent, is it?
| wwilim wrote:
| Just turn up the music until you can't hear the tinnitus /s
| chankstein38 wrote:
| Same (about having not thought about it for weeks or months)
| and now I hear a ringing in my ears lol
| threatripper wrote:
| That's pretty much it. It's like the nose in your visual area.
| It's always there but normally you don't see it. Focus on
| everything else. Let it be there but focus on something.
| brookst wrote:
| Thanks. Thanks a lot. Now I see my nose. But I guess it's
| like being conscious of breathing to where you feel like you
| have to manually inhale and exhale; it eventually goes back
| to automatic.
| makmanalp wrote:
| > Nobody complains about tinnitus while playing Playstation
|
| As a long time sufferer, I want to support the general
| sentiment of this post, and I hope it helps someone who finds
| this that is currently suffering. My core message is that
| managing your psychological response to your condition matters
| immensely. I've noticed over the years that my perception of my
| tinnitus gets worse when my stress levels are high, even if for
| unrelated reasons. For example, reading about this post might
| remind me of it when I wasn't thinking about it for a long
| while. And suddenly this might bring back unpleasant feelings I
| have about it and it might suddenly feel very loud and
| overpowering when half an hour ago I wasn't even aware of it.
| But then an hour or two later I'll catch myself having a
| normal, quiet, unimpeded conversation with someone, which can
| feel like a contradiction.
|
| Unmanaged, this kind of thing can turn into an unchecked, self
| reinforcing doom loop that's not always necessary or helpful.
| As with anxiety (another long term problem I manage), one
| unhelpful thing doctors might say when you first get tinnitus
| is that it doesn't go away - this is one of those technically
| true statements that patients can misinterpret. The reality is
| that just like anxiety, in many cases there's plenty reason for
| hope: it's often quite possible to improve quality of life
| that's mostly the same as it was before. It's still there if
| you check, and time to time you need to manage it, but also you
| might go days and weeks without even noticing, living a
| perfectly normal and happy life rather than a miserable
| existence.
|
| On the other hand, leaving your primary care doctor with "yup,
| it's tinnitus" (my interpretation at the time: you're fucked
| for life, good luck) can lead to deep feelings of despair,
| panic, lack of sleep, over-sensitivity to noise of any kind
| even within normal thresholds, and many more terrible things.
| And "just ignore it, you'll be fine" is trite advice that can
| be difficult to achieve without help, like telling someone to
| ignore a siren in the next room. And it might be difficult for
| others to understand how debilitating it can be. But slowly and
| step by step it's possible to get there.
|
| Sadly compassionate and competent care for tinnitus, even among
| audiology specialists, is few and far between and patients are
| left to suffer and / or try to figure stuff out on their own,
| which like a hypochondriac on webmd, can leave you feeling even
| worse. Luckily it is more possible to find tinnitus specific
| care these days and I encourage you to find a clinic that does
| this if you can - it's worth traveling for IMHO. There's a
| cocktail of potential causes that indicate different treaments
| so take this with a grain of salt but what worked for me was a
| combination of various things first to manage my current state
| and give me some relief during my initial crisis state
| (psychological help with how to deal with the reality of your
| condition, various things to help mask it and allow me to get
| normal sleep), clearing out wax (it's hilariously gross and
| also wild how it can affect your hearing perception and
| tinnitus in the most unexpected ways), common sense non-doomer
| information on the nature of the disease, what to do next and
| how to slowly transition to focusing on normal life ("playing
| playstation"): doing things with people, being outside, working
| out, focusing on your interests, as opposed to catastrophizing
| at home in bed. This feels like a non-cure cure but the results
| for me are night and day - if it's a placebo, I'll take it. I
| still have trouble with it time to time, but lead a normal
| happy life most days.
|
| That aside, while we don't have the technology to make it fully
| go away yet, there have been a lot of recent changes and
| advances in our understanding of how it works which might lead
| to new therapies. Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor and might be
| butchering this so take this with a grain of salt: There seem
| to now be competing theories on the exact causes e.g. arguments
| about whether it's the the little hairs in the ear are sending
| no signal or incorrect signals. Also a recent understanding
| that you can have a seemingly unaffected hearing AND a normal
| audiogram but still have tinnitus is leading people to question
| if it's a different type of damage (different, larger hairs)
| that cause it which might mean different therapies. There's
| promising new treatments like Lenire which seem to be low risk
| and whose early study results seem to be much more promising
| than earlier versions of similar ideas (haven't tried it). I
| wouldn't be shocked if we eventually got much much more in our
| lifetimes.
|
| TLDR: of course you'd rather not have it - please do be careful
| in protecting your hearing as much as possible. But if you're
| at the point where you do have it, just take a bit of solace
| maybe that it's not always a terrible prognosis and more
| improvement might be possible than you think. And the
| psychology and managing my emotional perception of it was very
| helpful for me. I hope this helps you, dear reader.
| extr wrote:
| Thanks for the thoughtful reply. FYI, this is the original
| quora post I'm talking about is here, the response by Vik
| Veer: https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-been-successful-at-
| curing-t...
|
| I can't comment on how mainstream of a scientific opinion his
| response is, but I know it certainly reframed the way I
| thought about my own tinnitus and inspired my original
| comment, including the Playstation bit. That was a lightbulb
| moment for me. "Wow, he's right, I NEVER think about tinnitus
| when I'm otherwise engaged mentally..."
| meindnoch wrote:
| Schrodinger's tinnitus.
| LargeWu wrote:
| I have mild tinnitus in one ear, and also mild/moderate hearing
| loss in the same ear. The way my ENT explained it, it's like
| the nervous system trying to compensate for lack of
| stiumlation. I've noticed when I wear my hearing aid, I do not
| notice the ringing very much. I would encourage anybody with
| tinnitus to get their hearing checked because you might benefit
| from a hearing aid.
| hinkley wrote:
| Mercifully my tinnitus only happens when I have eustachian tube
| congestion. I have elaborate jaw exercises that open things up
| enough to stop it, and for a while before and then after I
| moved I had other daily rituals to keep my sinuses clear (I'll
| spare you the more medical options but it included daily
| mucinex, spicy food and hot tea to open up the sinuses and keep
| them open).
|
| Eventually my body got used to the local pollen, thank god. I
| haven't needed chemicals or lavage for months.
| ay wrote:
| I have a very mild intermittent tinnitus and I found this link
| (which I found on HN at some point), which definitely gave an
| instant (albeit temporary) relief:
|
| https://generalfuzz.net/acrn/index.html
|
| I also had some other people give feedback that it helped them,
| so doing a little bit of cheat replying under the top post, in
| a hope it is useful for some. (I have absolutely no
| relationship with the target of the link, and I saw there were
| several paid apps that basically used the same algorithm)
|
| A little anecdata for myself: I have had a mildly higher blood
| pressure and pushing it down to accepted limits by diet and
| ~daily 6km running seems to have reduced the incidence - but
| this is just a piece of personal made data, so FWIW.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I'm very much the same. This kind of feels like a tree falling
| in the woods thing. I cannot really tell you my tinnitus
| actually goes away. Just that 99% of the time I'm not
| experiencing any evidence of it existing. Whether it's gone or
| I've just entirely tuned it out... who cares?
|
| Right now I hear it because we're talking about it. In five
| minutes when I'm back to thinking about work, it will disappear
| again until the next time I randomly think about it.
| RobMurray wrote:
| Exactly. I can hear a loud high pitched tone right now. I
| wasn't consciously aware of it today before seeing this
| article.
| knowitnone wrote:
| studies have shown seeing money makes you happy!
| kbuchanan wrote:
| Supported by my experience too. My tinnitus is very real, but
| when I discovered just how much of a psychological component
| was there, it became more manageable. Little by little I
| thought I was losing my hearing until I had it checked--it was
| perfect. The audiologist helped me understand that my constant
| "tuning in" to the tinnitus was creating the perception that my
| hearing was being harmed by loud noises and leaving a high-
| frequency sound in its place. Which is there, but when ignored,
| it largely disappears.
| genewitch wrote:
| In this thread (and probably others): People who either aren't
| aware or don't care that some people actually _suffer_ from
| tinnitus. Occasionally i get a burst of it where it is
| physically painful, and i wince, tears come to my eyes. [0]
|
| "just don't think about it, bro"
|
| lol - they prescribe _opiates_ for this condition.
|
| noise machines are linked to making it _worse_. Humans may not
| be used to "silence" or whatever people are claiming in here,
| but we're also not used to broad-spectrum noise, either. Nature
| doesn't sound like a fan, or any other sort of "noise" except
| for, possibly, a few dBa around the floor of all noise due to
| echoes and reflections. Do you all ever go outside of the
| cities?
|
| [0] i consider mine mild, i always know when i'm gunna suffer
| after a noise, my brain just knows the SPL that will trigger it
| _in a few hours_ , so i generally try to be asleep before it
| kicks in. I do get the waves of tinnitus that i think most
| people say is "mild", it comes and goes; and yeah, that is easy
| to "ignore". I have friends with it that avoid certain foods
| and drinks (like red wine and whisky), where a bout of tinnitus
| escalates into a migraine headache, or worse, a cluster
| headache.
| Natsu wrote:
| The best advice I ever heard was just to massage the back of
| your head and neck. One relatively common cause of it is muscle
| tension back there and a quick massage often makes it go away
| like magic.
|
| I don't think that works for everyone, but it's such a simple
| thing to try that anyone suffering should see if it works for
| them.
| michaelteter wrote:
| Mine started in one ear after a problem while ascending during a
| scuba dive. Something remained different in the region around my
| ear afterward.
|
| Then COVID did some sh*t to my sinuses which left them changed.
|
| Now I have relatively low tinnitus in one ear and very noticeable
| tinnitus in the other ear. The pitch is high... reminiscent to
| the squeal that an old CRT or tube TV would make if it had no
| signal.
|
| The tinnitus is some function of my blood circulation, because I
| can clearly hear my pulse in the worst ear... just this constant
| pulsing squeal. On occasion it is so loud that I wonder if my
| head is about to blow open. Blood pressure is good when tested
| though.
|
| Who knows... that's all so complex and interconnected, and then
| there's the possibility that some of it is imagined or phantom.
| zzzeek wrote:
| im familiar with this kind of tinnitus (and many others), what
| happens if you try a good sinus decongestant?
| matharmin wrote:
| If it's pulsing, get it checked out. Pulsatile tinnitus is
| often a symptom of a bigger underlying issue.
| michaelteter wrote:
| Well that sucks. But thank you. I will.
| telchior wrote:
| I have vertigo issues and have wondered whether scuba might
| have contributed to the inner ear damage that causes it. It was
| either that or, also like you, sinus issues.
|
| During the diagnosis phase of my vertigo I learned a few things
| about how primitive medicine still is when it comes to inner
| ear issues. If the problem isn't BPPV, some large growth they
| can cut out (e.g. a fistula) or something that can be "solved"
| by just destroying your inner ear (gentamicin therapy) there is
| almost nothing they can do -- and in fact they can't even
| really diagnose the issue, just test out different therapies to
| try to find anything resulting in some mild improvement. Most
| doctors have no idea what the possible diagnoses even are; the
| specialist who eventually helped me was a neuro-otologist,
| which already seems unreasonably specialized, and he said he
| only really had an idea because his son had the same issue as
| me.
| zzzeek wrote:
| OK I'll bite (ha ha), why is Apple doing this?
|
| they think airpods cause tinnitus? eh
| evilfred wrote:
| anecdotally, my ENT said he has had an onslaught of young
| patients w tinnitus who use them. but kids also tend to blast
| volume.
|
| unrelated: another big cause of tinnitus is Viagra. it drives
| too much blood to the sensitive ear arteries
| whimsicalism wrote:
| reported tinnitus is heavily anxiety correlated and younger
| generations are more anxous, it seems
| evilfred wrote:
| makes sense!
| ttpphd wrote:
| To work on customers who are interested in over-the-counter
| hearing aids
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| they're going to completely obliterate the hearing aid market
| for most general cases
| bzzzt wrote:
| At least they are building a cheap option for a change, a
| hearing aid can cost between 500-1500 euros here. Seems like
| a market that's ready for disruption.
| sureIy wrote:
| At this price point it's completely welcome. Folding an
| overpriced and underdeveloped health market into a
| commercially successful highly-engineered product is the best
| the world can ask of trillion dollar companies.
|
| While Apple choices are sometimes dislikeable, I'm really
| happy that they seem to care about some social problems
| (accessibility, privacy) giving them so much _screen time._
| They could just invest that time into something flashy and
| non-consequential and still make boatloads of money.
| umpalumpaaa wrote:
| I had really bad Tinnitus for years. Then I took a hearing test.
| Doc concluded that I needed a hearing aid. Then I got the Lyric
| hearing aid which sits deep inside your ear canal 24/7 and it
| immediately did not only fix my hearing but also my tinnitus.
|
| Its an analoge but digitally programmable hearing aid which needs
| to be replaced every 3-4 months or so.
| beefman wrote:
| Does your tinnitus return when you're not wearing the Lyric
| devices (or when they're turned off, if that's possible)?
| umpalumpaaa wrote:
| It returns when I turn them off. But this happens only for
| like 5 minutes every 3-4 months or so (ideally).
| lalalandland wrote:
| I think I suffer from this. My theory: There are muscles in the
| ear canal that try to modulate the sound and those muscles
| tense up and cause issues. I also have sore muscles that get a
| lot better from use of magnesium supplements and the tinnitus
| also get slightly better from this use. (It get a lot worse if
| I stop taking it)
| tartrate wrote:
| how quickly does magnesium work, and how quickly does it get
| worse if you don't take it?
| lalalandland wrote:
| About a week both to start working and weening off
| umpalumpaaa wrote:
| The theory of my ENT is that the brain tries to make up
| noises when certain frequencies are not properly "used"
| because your hearing is bad. My hearing in the higher
| frequency spectrum is really bad - thus I hear high pitches
| sounds (tinnitus) when I am not wearing that hearing aid.
|
| I think it is pretty common that tinnitus gets better with
| any kind of hearing aid however some devices & hearing loss
| combinations tend to be more successful
| lalalandland wrote:
| I must go and get my hearing checked
| pkaye wrote:
| I have tinnitus and hearing loss. I've found that wearing the
| hearing aids itself silences the tinnitus. I've read that the
| hearing aids add enough of the background noise back so your
| auditory system is stimulated and tinnitus is drowned out.
| jerlam wrote:
| Only 20% of tinnitus cases caused by loud noises- seems like we
| have a lot more research to do.
| buffington wrote:
| You claim that "20% of tinnitus cases caused by loud noises"
| without providing citation, then suggest there's more research
| do all in the same breath - well done.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > You claim that "20% of tinnitus cases caused by loud
| noises" without providing citation, then suggest there's more
| research do all in the same breath - well done.
|
| GP didn't make a claim, they repeated a figure from the
| submitted article. Since you want to know where they drew the
| figure from, here it is:
|
| > Cause of Tinnitus
|
| >> While there's no guaranteed method to prevent tinnitus
| given its complex causes, practicing hearing protection and
| managing stress levels can lower the chances of tinnitus. In
| the study, participants cited "noise trauma," or exposure to
| excessively high levels of noise, as the primary cause of
| tinnitus (20.3 percent), followed closely by stress (7.7
| percent).
|
| Source: Scroll to the top and click on the link to the
| article.
| casenmgreen wrote:
| I had tinnitus as an adult, and it was cured.
|
| It turned out to be caused by an improperly filled root canal;
| some root material remained inside the tooth, the flesh above and
| around the tooth was inflamed and this was applying pressure
| inside the skull and bringing tissues which would otherwise not
| have been into contact, or firmer contact.
|
| I had the root canal re-made, and the tinnitus ended.
| focusedone wrote:
| How was this discovered? Regular PCP, dentist or a specialist?
|
| Thanks!
| codesnik wrote:
| wow. It's a long way between jaw, sinuses and the inner ear.
| Was your inflamation that big?
| switch007 wrote:
| I also had tinnitus, as a result of a gum infection. It was a
| low grade infection for a while which made me not make much of
| a connection, but when I finally got antibiotics after the
| infection got way worse, the infection and the tinnitus cleared
| up within 3 days
| zackmorris wrote:
| I had very slight intermittent tinnitus that went away after
| being treated with an ALF appliance for TMJ and sleep apnea. I
| think my jaw joint was pressing on a nerve by my ear somehow.
| My bite was fixed by tilting it slightly back to horizontal to
| open up the joint and allow the teeth to erupt a bit until they
| met again.
| ilayn wrote:
| As a former drummer who bashed way too many Chinas without proper
| ear protection, I had some scary tinnitus for quite a while. My
| advice;
|
| - First make sure that the frequency is not dancing around. If it
| is then probably it is one of those things your brain making up
| then it is relatively easier to fool yourself back again. Check
| it when it happens https://audionotch.com/app/tune/ (disclaimer I
| am not related to website, just first google result).
|
| - If it is constant then try to counter it with noise especially
| when trying to sleep. Just give yourself one of those nice
| YouTube colored-noise videos like this one
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SHf6wmX5MU
|
| - Avoid in-ears altogether, especially the bass-boost ones make
| sure that it does not fit airtight. More bass does not mean you
| pulsate your ear-canal with an airgun. If you want proper bass
| sound, invest in hi-fi stereo and listen to it in a good room.
|
| - As mentioned, distract yourself. Even if it is chronic and
| actually has a pathological cause, the brain finds a way to cope
| with it, like the glasses on your nose not noticing the weight.
| hooverd wrote:
| Related, I wonder how YC23 Auricle is doing?
| xoxxala wrote:
| I can ignore my tinnitus during the day fairly well. It just
| doesn't bother me that much. I've never really used earpods, no
| longer use over the hear headphones, and keep the volume down on
| my speakers.
|
| But at night it's a completely different story. With a quiet
| house and nothing to distract, it was causing a huge problem in
| my ability to get rest.
|
| The solution was to play Spotify all night long at a low volume.
| The music keeps the ringing to a minimum. The genre of music
| doesn't really seem to matter. It all works.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Interesting. Would those rain/storm whitenoise relaxation
| sounds work as well? There is now one built into iOS.
| xoxxala wrote:
| I've tried those and found them incredibly distracting. I
| can't fall asleep with them on. I suspect they would work
| just fine to keeping the tinnitus under control, however.
| knowitnone wrote:
| yes, I listen to audiobooks and fall asleep that way.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| This is anecdotal info, but if you're suffering severe tinnitus
| to the point where it cannot be ignored, meaning >=8/10, a short
| course of memantine for a few weeks could bring it down by about
| 2/10, making it more tolerable. The course may have to be
| repeated as needed about once a year. There probably exist other
| milder medicines that too could help make it less severe, e.g.
| mild SSRIs, but their effect usually goes away as soon as you
| stop taking them.
| genewitch wrote:
| How come when i say "hey test your vit D and everyone probably
| needs more D supplementation" i get called out and downvoted,
| but this memantine comment goes unanswered?
|
| One of the side effects is aggression. here i'll try this,
| _anecdotally_ my neighbor was prescribed 5mg (20mg is max dose)
| for short term memory issues, and he said "it's a good thing i
| wasn't prescribed more, i would have killed my wife." This was
| so out of character for him, i've never heard him raise his
| voice or say anything in anger in the 10 years i've known him.
| He and his wife are a normal happily married (like 4 decades!)
| couple of awesome people.
|
| So, yeah. I'm starting to notice a bit of a double standard on
| this site with more things than "google bad."
| OutOfHere wrote:
| The trick with memantine is to limit usage to three months
| max. Its dopaminergic aspect gradually takes over its anti-
| glutamatergic aspect. If the limit is not applied, people can
| engage in progressively riskier behavior. This manifests
| itself even after the second month, but depending on the
| condition, continuing to the third month can be necessary.
|
| In regard to tinnitus, just a few weeks (3) could be plenty.
|
| Amantadine could be a bit safer for longer-term use, but it
| too carries behavioral risks.
| genewitch wrote:
| my anecdotal reference didn't even finish 2 weeks out - he
| showed me the bottle so i could look up what it was in the
| PDR, then i started reading up to see if that side effect
| was uncommon. and yes, i carry the PDR on my phone when i'm
| not at home with the big blue and red books.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| > One of the side effects is aggression.
|
| This is actually not a side effect per se; it's IMO a
| primary effect, although its observance depends on the
| baseline state. It's a genuine state of power, of not
| putting up with bs. Unfortunately, however, the power
| will last only as long as the memantine intake lasts.
|
| Calling it a side effect is like saying that feeling
| energetic is a side effect of caffeine. If you're already
| very tired, then you won't even have this effect anymore
| from caffeine until you're back to a baseline state.
| etiennemarcel wrote:
| Is there any science out there to support it? Gabapentin is
| also supposed to be a miracle cure but it only works
| (anecdotally) for very few people and the studies are
| inconclusive.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| It (memantine) is not a full cure, and I never advertised it
| as such. It only anecdotally lowers the severity of tinnitus
| which can make the difference between a person wanting to
| stop living versus continue living. Also, it is strictly for
| short term use only, a few weeks (3) to a few months (3), and
| no more, but its benefit can last.
| mrtksn wrote:
| I got a tinnitus which severely impacted my life only to find out
| that it is connected to my posture and neck issues, something
| which wasn't mentioned almost anywhere until I found out by
| myself and the specifically searched for.
|
| At glance, again I don't see mention about that in this article.
| Apple has accelerometers on AirPods Pro, I hope they incorporate
| head position into the study.
|
| Nothing helped until I got serious into fixing my posture. Now
| it's almost cured.
| cocacola1 wrote:
| Any advice for fixing your posture?
| mrtksn wrote:
| What I did was to sit like they tell on these brochures when
| you purchase a computer or something.
|
| I was using just my laptop, purchased a stand, a keyboard and
| a mouse and always use my computer sitting properly.
|
| I'm also doing neck exercises to strengthen my neck muscles,
| this one was a doctors advice.
|
| Lastly, I no longer sleep on stress inducing position. I used
| to do that a lot, would not be bothered to sleep on a small
| couch at friends house, now I don't do that. If it no bed is
| available, would sleep on the floor.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Related from today's news:
|
| _AirPods Pro 2 adds 'clinical grade' hearing aid feature_
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491191
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| 1. Does everyone hear the same tone?
|
| 2. What tone or tones are typical? What frequency or frequencies?
| Sine wave? Sawtooth?
|
| 3. Can anything shift the tone? Eg, drugs? Attention?
| blackeyeblitzar wrote:
| Has anyone else noticed that AirPods Pro's noise cancellation
| doesn't work if you have just one earbud in?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| That's the expected behavior, if you want to use it with just
| one they have a solution for you:
|
| > To use Active Noise Cancellation with one AirPod only, use
| your iPhone or iPad to go to Settings > Accessibility >
| AirPods, and turn on "Noise Cancellation with One AirPod." Then
| press and hold the force sensor to switch between noise-control
| modes.
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/108918
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| That's an intentional setting (presumably because it wouldn't
| really make sense?) and can be changed in AirPods settings
| las_balas_tres wrote:
| I have had tinnitus since I was about 20 and I am now 50. Its
| always been there until last year when I had a slight reprieve
| for about 10 seconds. I was sick, the sickest I had been for
| years. I came down a with bad flu and was on a cocktail of
| drugs... antibiotics, painkillers etc. So there I was, lying in
| bed staring out the window when suddenly everything went peaceful
| and very quite. I then realised that i could no longer hear the
| ringing in my ears. I was sick but not delirious. Try hard as I
| could, i couldn't hear the ringing in my ears for about 10
| seconds when suddenly as quickly as the ringing appeared, it re-
| appeared again.
| rustcleaner wrote:
| Tinnitus: the ringing silver bells of illumination and
| enlightenment!
| zackmorris wrote:
| Random question for someone with tinnitus: do you hear the sound
| if you hum?
|
| Supposedly the mind doesn't think while humming, at least the
| inner monologue tends to cease, similar to meditation, and both
| can be used simultaneously:
|
| https://www.livestrong.com/article/13771650-bhramari-benefit...
|
| I find that even the act of beginning to hum, by tensing my
| throat without making a sound, quiets my thoughts.
|
| Some other things you might try:
|
| * tapping practice of the fingertips on temples, eyebrows,
| shoulders, etc for anxiety relief.
|
| * consciousness brain hemisphere shifting (don't know the name),
| where you cross your eyes slightly to look at two different
| images, then concentrate on bringing one image to your attention
| and then the other, causing focus to move between hemispheres.
| doing this while meditating on difficult thoughts can help the
| non-dominant hemisphere solve the problem.
|
| * head to toe relaxation: start with the top of your head and
| scan down your body, identifying any tense muscles and relaxing
| them, until fully relaxed. so real the forehead, drop the tongue
| from the top of the mouth, relax into the chair, etc.
| bitwize wrote:
| I have eye tinnitus:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow_syndrome
|
| It's so subtle that I don't really notice it in my day to day
| life, and with corrective lenses I experience almost no vision
| problems.
|
| But God damn it, there was this one ophthalmologist I had. He
| became convinced that I was at high risk for glaucoma and kept
| subjecting me to visual field tests to assess my peripheral
| vision. The machine he used for such tests was so ancient it
| still took 5 1/4" floppy disks, and it worked by shining lights
| of various brightness onto a plain canvas. You were supposed to
| stare at a point and click a button held in the hand (like a
| _Jeopardy!_ buzzer) when you saw one of these lights.
|
| Well, this exercise presents pretty much the exact conditions for
| my visual snow to put me at a disadvantage, and that meant I had
| bizarre, inconsistent test results with strange gaps in my visual
| field. Of course, that only further convinced my ophthalmologist
| that I was a glaucoma risk, and when I told him about the visual
| snow, he just looked at me like I was from space and ordered more
| tests.
|
| I was so glad to find a nice, 34-year-old ophthalmologist some
| years later who used the air puff machine during the standard eye
| exam to measure eyeball pressure and found I was nowhere near
| having glaucoma. No visual field tests, no visual snow
| confounding the results.
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