[HN Gopher] MNT Reform Next
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MNT Reform Next
Author : _Microft
Score : 106 points
Date : 2024-09-09 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mntre.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (mntre.com)
| amatecha wrote:
| So awesome. Looking forward to being able to order one of these!
| There's no one else making computers like this, and I definitely
| want to not only personally benefit from the radness, but also
| help support them so they can continue to work on new hardware
| (and software)!
| theodric wrote:
| I didn't buy the MNT Reform because it simply didn't have enough
| RAM to be useful to me.
|
| Now this new one has enough RAM, but it dispenses with the
| trackball - which was the thing that initially drew my eye to the
| Reform - in favor of a painfully tiny trackpad.
|
| I just can't win with these guys! So frustrating. I want to love
| it.
| nine_k wrote:
| I hope they will offer options for the keyboard, with a
| trackball or (better) a trackpoint.
|
| Maybe not themselves but somebody who cares enough, given the
| complete openness of the thing.
| nosioptar wrote:
| I don't ever want to buy another laptop without a trackpoint.
| stonogo wrote:
| The SoM in this is available for the original Reform. Plus
| other SoMs with 8gb or 16gb have been available for some time.
| evgpbfhnr wrote:
| https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform-rcore-
| rk3588-proc... 500/750EUR for the som is a bit spicy
| considering the soc itself can be brought for $150 in orange
| pi 5 plus (16GB); being part of the business I know how big
| the economy of scale is, but it still is off putting as a
| consumer.
|
| Hopefully selling it as part of the new laptop will allow
| sufficiently bigger batches to bring this down a bit
| stonogo wrote:
| If you're concerned about cost, the small-batch handmade
| laptop market probably isn't ever going to make you happy.
| doublepg23 wrote:
| Isn't part of the ethos of the laptop being fully hackable? I'd
| assume you could design the case to your liking or upgrade the
| SoC.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| The original suffered from an underpowered CPU and a high price,
| along with a fit and finish that looked great but compared
| favorably to 20 year old PowerBooks more than modern computers
| (even "thick" laptops today were much thinner).
|
| Seeing this one become quite a bit thinner, using an Arm CPU
| (RK3588) that is about as good as it gets outside Snapdragon /
| Apple M in terms of efficiency... I think price may be the major
| turn-off, as I'm assuming it still won't hit under $1k fully
| built.
|
| But if they could hit that number, more people would be willing
| to take a small hit in performance/compatibility to have a fully
| open design laptop.
| dtx1 wrote:
| I feel bad for writing this because it's such a cool project and
| I feel like there's such a whole in the market for repairable
| hardware with open source components.
|
| But this is shit. There's a Premium that can be added for the
| Open Hardware and repairability but the prices for even the most
| basic units are beyond reason. The RK3588 is on the lowest of the
| lowest rung of what I would consider usable in 2024 and that has
| to compete with the rest of the Market. And it's not like it's
| this super open source no closed firmware fully upstream
| supported linux chip that's the M1 of the Open Hardware World.
|
| Let's look at some real competition for this device:
|
| * Homemade Cyberdecks with Raspberry Pis. Probably Cheaper and
| you get to build it yourself. Will get you into just as much
| trouble if you try to take it onto an airplane. Both the RK3588
| and the Pi5 are too slow for actual work anyway.
|
| * Framework Notebook. Also closed source binaries required to
| make it work, arguably more than the RK3588 but for me this is
| binary (pun intended). Realistically usable and proven to be more
| "future proof" than the MNT Reform Devices. Repairability in
| practical terms is the same.
|
| * Coreboot enabled Notebooks like the NovaCustom Stuff. Clevo
| Rebadges with Coreboot. Arguably more open than the framework
| notebooks, but still contain closed binary blobs. Again, actually
| usable hardware that one might reasonably use everyday. Actual
| good Linux support because intel CPU. Repairability is worse than
| Framework but parts availability is there.
|
| You know, with actual notebooks you might use them, this MNT
| Reform will be in your "theoretically cool but practically
| useless open source projects that I will never use and my
| children will throw into the landfill when i'm gone"-Drawer we
| all have. Mine contains an OpenMoko, Pinebook Pro an assortment
| of ARM Devices and power supplies.
| metalforever wrote:
| The problem with your suggestions is that they don't have free
| firmware.
| dtx1 wrote:
| Neither does the RK3588, which is precisely the point I was
| making.
|
| From the MNT Reform Website
| https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform
|
| > RK3588 > Binary DDR and GPU firmware
|
| That makes it just as closed source as the corebooted
| novacustom stuff: https://novacustom.com/coreboot-laptop/
| rjsw wrote:
| The GPU in the RK3588 doesn't use closed source firmware.
| F3nd0 wrote:
| For the DDR, yes, but as for the GPU, is this still the
| case with Collabora's ongoing work on Panthor?
|
| https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-
| events/tami...
| mikepavone wrote:
| While the Panthor kernel driver itself is open source, it
| seems to require this firmware [0] which doesn't look
| very open source to me.
|
| [0] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmw
| are/lin...
| F3nd0 wrote:
| > Realistically usable and proven to be more "future proof"
| than the MNT Reform Devices.
|
| How is Framework 'proven' to be more 'future proof' than the
| MNT Reform devices?
|
| > You know, with actual notebooks you might use them, this MNT
| Reform will be in your "theoretically cool but practically
| useless open source projects that I will never use and my
| children will throw into the landfill when i'm gone"-Drawer we
| all have.
|
| Why should it? I can understand if it doesn't cover your needs,
| but to me it seems like a decent, functional laptop that might
| do just fine for a lot of people.
| dtx1 wrote:
| > How is Framework 'proven' to be more 'future proof' than
| the MNT Reform devices?
|
| Framework has shipped multiple generations of hardware with
| upgrade SOCs/Mainboards in the same form factor. MNT Reform
| is already on their second generation case and mainboard form
| factor with no reasonable upgrade for their first gen in
| sight.
|
| > Why should it? I can understand if it doesn't cover your
| needs, but to me it seems like a decent, functional laptop
| that might do just fine for a lot of people.
|
| I challenge you to do any real work for a week on an RK3588.
| When your done, you will understand why.
| yencabulator wrote:
| [delayed]
| nxobject wrote:
| I'm glad this revision's thinner - I wanted to actually be able
| to put the Reform in my backpack! Sadly, I'm not sure whether you
| can get both thinness and the trackball at the same time...
| yencabulator wrote:
| There were trackballs on phones at one time.. of course, the
| ball has to be smaller, but it's very much doable.
|
| I'd actually expect a larger trackball to be harder to do well,
| it has to be sunken in to allow closing the lid, and that
| sounds unpleasant to use.
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