[HN Gopher] MNT Reform Next
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       MNT Reform Next
        
       Author : _Microft
       Score  : 106 points
       Date   : 2024-09-09 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mntre.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mntre.com)
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | So awesome. Looking forward to being able to order one of these!
       | There's no one else making computers like this, and I definitely
       | want to not only personally benefit from the radness, but also
       | help support them so they can continue to work on new hardware
       | (and software)!
        
       | theodric wrote:
       | I didn't buy the MNT Reform because it simply didn't have enough
       | RAM to be useful to me.
       | 
       | Now this new one has enough RAM, but it dispenses with the
       | trackball - which was the thing that initially drew my eye to the
       | Reform - in favor of a painfully tiny trackpad.
       | 
       | I just can't win with these guys! So frustrating. I want to love
       | it.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | I hope they will offer options for the keyboard, with a
         | trackball or (better) a trackpoint.
         | 
         | Maybe not themselves but somebody who cares enough, given the
         | complete openness of the thing.
        
           | nosioptar wrote:
           | I don't ever want to buy another laptop without a trackpoint.
        
         | stonogo wrote:
         | The SoM in this is available for the original Reform. Plus
         | other SoMs with 8gb or 16gb have been available for some time.
        
           | evgpbfhnr wrote:
           | https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform-rcore-
           | rk3588-proc... 500/750EUR for the som is a bit spicy
           | considering the soc itself can be brought for $150 in orange
           | pi 5 plus (16GB); being part of the business I know how big
           | the economy of scale is, but it still is off putting as a
           | consumer.
           | 
           | Hopefully selling it as part of the new laptop will allow
           | sufficiently bigger batches to bring this down a bit
        
             | stonogo wrote:
             | If you're concerned about cost, the small-batch handmade
             | laptop market probably isn't ever going to make you happy.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | Isn't part of the ethos of the laptop being fully hackable? I'd
         | assume you could design the case to your liking or upgrade the
         | SoC.
        
       | geerlingguy wrote:
       | The original suffered from an underpowered CPU and a high price,
       | along with a fit and finish that looked great but compared
       | favorably to 20 year old PowerBooks more than modern computers
       | (even "thick" laptops today were much thinner).
       | 
       | Seeing this one become quite a bit thinner, using an Arm CPU
       | (RK3588) that is about as good as it gets outside Snapdragon /
       | Apple M in terms of efficiency... I think price may be the major
       | turn-off, as I'm assuming it still won't hit under $1k fully
       | built.
       | 
       | But if they could hit that number, more people would be willing
       | to take a small hit in performance/compatibility to have a fully
       | open design laptop.
        
       | dtx1 wrote:
       | I feel bad for writing this because it's such a cool project and
       | I feel like there's such a whole in the market for repairable
       | hardware with open source components.
       | 
       | But this is shit. There's a Premium that can be added for the
       | Open Hardware and repairability but the prices for even the most
       | basic units are beyond reason. The RK3588 is on the lowest of the
       | lowest rung of what I would consider usable in 2024 and that has
       | to compete with the rest of the Market. And it's not like it's
       | this super open source no closed firmware fully upstream
       | supported linux chip that's the M1 of the Open Hardware World.
       | 
       | Let's look at some real competition for this device:
       | 
       | * Homemade Cyberdecks with Raspberry Pis. Probably Cheaper and
       | you get to build it yourself. Will get you into just as much
       | trouble if you try to take it onto an airplane. Both the RK3588
       | and the Pi5 are too slow for actual work anyway.
       | 
       | * Framework Notebook. Also closed source binaries required to
       | make it work, arguably more than the RK3588 but for me this is
       | binary (pun intended). Realistically usable and proven to be more
       | "future proof" than the MNT Reform Devices. Repairability in
       | practical terms is the same.
       | 
       | * Coreboot enabled Notebooks like the NovaCustom Stuff. Clevo
       | Rebadges with Coreboot. Arguably more open than the framework
       | notebooks, but still contain closed binary blobs. Again, actually
       | usable hardware that one might reasonably use everyday. Actual
       | good Linux support because intel CPU. Repairability is worse than
       | Framework but parts availability is there.
       | 
       | You know, with actual notebooks you might use them, this MNT
       | Reform will be in your "theoretically cool but practically
       | useless open source projects that I will never use and my
       | children will throw into the landfill when i'm gone"-Drawer we
       | all have. Mine contains an OpenMoko, Pinebook Pro an assortment
       | of ARM Devices and power supplies.
        
         | metalforever wrote:
         | The problem with your suggestions is that they don't have free
         | firmware.
        
           | dtx1 wrote:
           | Neither does the RK3588, which is precisely the point I was
           | making.
           | 
           | From the MNT Reform Website
           | https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform
           | 
           | > RK3588 > Binary DDR and GPU firmware
           | 
           | That makes it just as closed source as the corebooted
           | novacustom stuff: https://novacustom.com/coreboot-laptop/
        
             | rjsw wrote:
             | The GPU in the RK3588 doesn't use closed source firmware.
        
             | F3nd0 wrote:
             | For the DDR, yes, but as for the GPU, is this still the
             | case with Collabora's ongoing work on Panthor?
             | 
             | https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-
             | events/tami...
        
               | mikepavone wrote:
               | While the Panthor kernel driver itself is open source, it
               | seems to require this firmware [0] which doesn't look
               | very open source to me.
               | 
               | [0] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmw
               | are/lin...
        
         | F3nd0 wrote:
         | > Realistically usable and proven to be more "future proof"
         | than the MNT Reform Devices.
         | 
         | How is Framework 'proven' to be more 'future proof' than the
         | MNT Reform devices?
         | 
         | > You know, with actual notebooks you might use them, this MNT
         | Reform will be in your "theoretically cool but practically
         | useless open source projects that I will never use and my
         | children will throw into the landfill when i'm gone"-Drawer we
         | all have.
         | 
         | Why should it? I can understand if it doesn't cover your needs,
         | but to me it seems like a decent, functional laptop that might
         | do just fine for a lot of people.
        
           | dtx1 wrote:
           | > How is Framework 'proven' to be more 'future proof' than
           | the MNT Reform devices?
           | 
           | Framework has shipped multiple generations of hardware with
           | upgrade SOCs/Mainboards in the same form factor. MNT Reform
           | is already on their second generation case and mainboard form
           | factor with no reasonable upgrade for their first gen in
           | sight.
           | 
           | > Why should it? I can understand if it doesn't cover your
           | needs, but to me it seems like a decent, functional laptop
           | that might do just fine for a lot of people.
           | 
           | I challenge you to do any real work for a week on an RK3588.
           | When your done, you will understand why.
        
         | yencabulator wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | nxobject wrote:
       | I'm glad this revision's thinner - I wanted to actually be able
       | to put the Reform in my backpack! Sadly, I'm not sure whether you
       | can get both thinness and the trackball at the same time...
        
         | yencabulator wrote:
         | There were trackballs on phones at one time.. of course, the
         | ball has to be smaller, but it's very much doable.
         | 
         | I'd actually expect a larger trackball to be harder to do well,
         | it has to be sunken in to allow closing the lid, and that
         | sounds unpleasant to use.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-09 23:00 UTC)