[HN Gopher] The Lurker's Guide to Babylon5
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       The Lurker's Guide to Babylon5
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2024-09-08 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.midwinter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.midwinter.com)
        
       | bananapub wrote:
       | this is one of those Good Parts of the Internet that were so much
       | more common even ten years ago (and near-ubiquitous 25 years ago)
       | than now, containing zero LLM slop, zero affiliate marketing,
       | zero Medium modal login banners, no creepy ads from a
       | trillionaire and no decaying Twitter links.
       | 
       | it is just a bunch of useful info condensed out of discussions
       | about Babylon 5 on Usenet in the mid 90's, including from posts
       | from jms, who used to hang around and mostly cryptically answer
       | questions. it's still online, largely unchanged, 30 years later,
       | links unbroken, no begging for money for hosting fees, no
       | Partnership With An Exciting Brand Partner.
       | 
       | bless the editor and all who helped.
        
       | chasil wrote:
       | "Lurkers" were mentioned several times in the show as a destitute
       | underclass who lived "down below."
       | 
       | Without fare for transport off the station, they were trapped.
        
       | sandyarmstrong wrote:
       | This was the most important web destination for me in high
       | school, so glad it's still up!
        
         | helpfulclippy wrote:
         | Yep. I remember spending hours on that site -- I watched
         | through when the SciFi channel re-ran B5, and I always pulled
         | the Lurker's Guide up after each episode and read through each
         | episode's discussion in its entirety. My brother did the same
         | thing. We'd discuss at length afterwards. Had a huge impact on
         | us.
         | 
         | It's a fascinating site. Besides being a great commentary on a
         | really good TV show, and a great example of how durable and
         | usable 90s-era web could really be, it also encapsulates
         | something about the position and velocity of culture at the
         | time. The whole thing really reflects how TV shows were viewed
         | at the time, and how the Internet was used at the time, and the
         | hopes and ideals people had about where things would go.
        
           | sandyarmstrong wrote:
           | Yes, exactly! I'd seen an episode of B5 here and there, but
           | it was hard to know what was going on. My family moved states
           | when TNT bought the show and started airing the series in
           | order 5 days a week as Season 5 was starting to come out. I
           | didn't know anyone yet so the highlight of my day was coming
           | home and watching the next episode, then reading the episode
           | guide. It made me feel like part of a community.
        
       | FrustratedMonky wrote:
       | Recently just read that the reason we don't have any re-masters,
       | or new re-releases on streaming, is the original film was
       | destroyed. Was pretty bummed. I thought it was just in some legal
       | limbo that would be resolved eventually, not gone forever.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | There is a remaster. It's quite good.
        
           | SG- wrote:
           | yes, I beleive the remaster uses AI upscaling.
        
           | EndsOfnversion wrote:
           | There are several issues with remastering Babylon 5:
           | 
           | 1) the variable frame rate: live action is 24p anything with
           | CG is effectively 60p (both in a 60i container). This is
           | difficult to do in HD.
           | 
           | 2) a lot of the source materials for the CG are scattered to
           | the winds, and the surviving stuff is in semi-obscure
           | formats, that make re-rendering expensive.
           | 
           | A few people on youtube have posted fan restorations of the
           | CG based on source-material that have fallen into their
           | hands, and it looks pretty good... but I can't see WB making
           | the same effort to restore the CG further. Maybe as AI
           | upscaling improves - it might look better.
           | 
           | 3) Questions around 16:9 vs 4:3 framing.
           | 
           | Either way - great show - but HD doesn't do some of the aets
           | any favours.
        
         | SG- wrote:
         | the original film wasn't destroyed, but all the 3D assets were
         | lost/destroyed making a remaster impossible. they had an idea
         | to simply re-render it all at maybe higher resolution and
         | possibly higher resolution textures/effects but that proved
         | impossible with the data loss.
         | 
         | when they recently made a new movie a few years ago they used
         | fan models for getting a 3D B5 going.
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | Are the original assets that important? Presumably they are
           | potato quality relative to modern expectations and have to be
           | recreated anyways. So long as you did not require perfect
           | fidelity, pixel-to-pixel rendition, but something within the
           | spirit of the show. Rendering some space blobs seems
           | attainable by a guy with Blender and Unreal.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | Nostalgia just entered the room... These were the good old times
       | when we had an excellent TV series (not only B5 but others like
       | STTNG, DS9, BSG) and a cleaner/better internet with people that
       | cared. Call me old school, bye these times are long gone and
       | aren't going to return.
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | BSG came quite a few years later (assuming you do mean the
         | remake?).
         | 
         | There were other gems around that time though. I was chatting
         | to friends about the Outer Limits just yesterday. Plus let's
         | not forget the other Star Trek franchise; Voyager.
         | 
         | I also love(d) Stargate SG1 (this was a little later too IIRC
         | but _much_ closer in time frame than BSG).
         | 
         | There were some pretty weird shows too. Some people liked
         | Fargate. I personally couldn't get into that particular show.
         | But I did enjoy Lexx.
         | 
         | Edit: a little later (possibly around the time of BSG), but
         | Firefly and Dollhouse shouldn't be forgotten either.
        
           | 7thaccount wrote:
           | By Fargate, did you mean Farscape? I didn't watch it until
           | like 10 years ago and really enjoyed it even though it's the
           | opposite of Star Trek. Babylon 5 is what I grew up on at a
           | very young age and it really partially shaped how I see the
           | world today in a way.
        
       | blooalien wrote:
       | I had _so many hours_ of fun playin ' with Lightwave 3D on my
       | Commodore Amiga back when this show came out. Blender's my "go-
       | to" software for all those needs now, but man... How _amazing_ it
       | felt to have access to the same exact software and hardware used
       | to produce a major TV show (and a _ton_ of commercials and other
       | things around that industry) back then. Good times...
        
       | dayvid wrote:
       | I haven't started it yet, but saw this viewing guide which helps
       | reduce filler episodes for those wanting to get into the series
       | with limited time:
       | https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-b...
        
       | TillE wrote:
       | Babylon 5 remains almost unique in its particular tone of
       | melodrama, its very theatrical acting with larger-than-life
       | characters. I love it for that, despite one or two actors who
       | aren't very good.
       | 
       | Midwinter's episode ratings are a pretty good guide to which ones
       | are skippable, though there's only a handful of episodes that are
       | truly disposable filler. It's a remarkable achievement for 90s
       | TV.
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | It's a funny show because it has so many flaws:
         | 
         | - the acting is terrible,
         | 
         | - dialog is pretty corny in places
         | 
         | - the alien prosthetics look silly
         | 
         | - the CGI, while technically impressive, look cartoonish (even
         | in true in its era)
         | 
         | Yes despite all this, it's still amazing and, for me at least,
         | it becomes very easy to look past those faults.
         | 
         | In my opinion it's one of the best sci-fi shows ever written
         | for its world building. You genuinely buy into the politics.
         | 
         | I just wish they weren't messed around with the cancellation,
         | then renewal of season 5 because that completely destroyed the
         | pacing of the last two seasons.
        
           | cbanek wrote:
           | While some parts can be pretty corny, let me call out the
           | music as amazing. Each episode has a lot more unique music
           | than I thought!
        
         | helpfulclippy wrote:
         | One thing I think B5 still comes in very strong for is
         | maintaining a coherent vision throughout the series. Modern TV
         | storytelling will develop a story arc, but that arc is
         | generally contained to a season. The characters as a whole
         | develop in ways that matter between seasons, but I usually
         | don't get the sense that each season is working in concert to
         | tell a coherent and well-paced story. Some more recent series
         | like Breaking Bad (or Better Call Saul, for that matter) have
         | done a really good job of telling a great story that unfolds
         | over the whole run of the show -- but I feel it remains the
         | exception.
        
       | hnlmorg wrote:
       | Coincidentally, I recently (in the last few days) started
       | rewatching B5.
        
         | cpeterso wrote:
         | If you just started watching, I strongly recommend following
         | the Lurker's Guide's viewing order, especially if you intend to
         | watch the movies the _Crusade_ spinoff:
         | 
         | http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html
         | 
         | A comparison of the Lurker's Guide's and others' viewing order:
         | 
         | https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order
        
         | cbanek wrote:
         | In the last few days I just finished watching it! Totally worth
         | every time.
        
       | pndy wrote:
       | J M Straczynski and B Zabel in 2004 wrote "Star Trek: Re-boot the
       | universe" proposal
       | 
       | > Concept
       | 
       | > What we propose is not Star Trek: Another Generation, or Star
       | Trek: A New Ship, or even Star Trek: The Search for Plots. In
       | other words, not a copy of a copy, or a distillation of a
       | variation. We want to re-boot STAR TREK. The original. Pure and
       | simple. The characters, universe and situations that have
       | attracted, and continue to attract, a worldwide audience. Re-
       | set... re-imagined... re-invigorated...
       | 
       | https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004r...
       | 
       | And IIRC he also on few occasions mentioned he'd like to
       | contribute to Doctor Who universe
        
       | topkai22 wrote:
       | This is a great example of the non commercial works of passion
       | that were a much larger post of the internet in the 90s.
       | Text/picture web has lost a lot of personality of that era- this
       | world have been crowded out by wikia or similar today.
       | 
       | I readily admit the internet is more usable today, but in miss
       | engaging with sites with a clear voice like this.
       | 
       | And yes, the first 3.5 seasons of B5 are incredible.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-08 23:00 UTC)