[HN Gopher] The Lurker's Guide to Babylon5
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The Lurker's Guide to Babylon5
Author : Tomte
Score : 73 points
Date : 2024-09-08 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.midwinter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.midwinter.com)
| bananapub wrote:
| this is one of those Good Parts of the Internet that were so much
| more common even ten years ago (and near-ubiquitous 25 years ago)
| than now, containing zero LLM slop, zero affiliate marketing,
| zero Medium modal login banners, no creepy ads from a
| trillionaire and no decaying Twitter links.
|
| it is just a bunch of useful info condensed out of discussions
| about Babylon 5 on Usenet in the mid 90's, including from posts
| from jms, who used to hang around and mostly cryptically answer
| questions. it's still online, largely unchanged, 30 years later,
| links unbroken, no begging for money for hosting fees, no
| Partnership With An Exciting Brand Partner.
|
| bless the editor and all who helped.
| chasil wrote:
| "Lurkers" were mentioned several times in the show as a destitute
| underclass who lived "down below."
|
| Without fare for transport off the station, they were trapped.
| sandyarmstrong wrote:
| This was the most important web destination for me in high
| school, so glad it's still up!
| helpfulclippy wrote:
| Yep. I remember spending hours on that site -- I watched
| through when the SciFi channel re-ran B5, and I always pulled
| the Lurker's Guide up after each episode and read through each
| episode's discussion in its entirety. My brother did the same
| thing. We'd discuss at length afterwards. Had a huge impact on
| us.
|
| It's a fascinating site. Besides being a great commentary on a
| really good TV show, and a great example of how durable and
| usable 90s-era web could really be, it also encapsulates
| something about the position and velocity of culture at the
| time. The whole thing really reflects how TV shows were viewed
| at the time, and how the Internet was used at the time, and the
| hopes and ideals people had about where things would go.
| sandyarmstrong wrote:
| Yes, exactly! I'd seen an episode of B5 here and there, but
| it was hard to know what was going on. My family moved states
| when TNT bought the show and started airing the series in
| order 5 days a week as Season 5 was starting to come out. I
| didn't know anyone yet so the highlight of my day was coming
| home and watching the next episode, then reading the episode
| guide. It made me feel like part of a community.
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| Recently just read that the reason we don't have any re-masters,
| or new re-releases on streaming, is the original film was
| destroyed. Was pretty bummed. I thought it was just in some legal
| limbo that would be resolved eventually, not gone forever.
| throwanem wrote:
| There is a remaster. It's quite good.
| SG- wrote:
| yes, I beleive the remaster uses AI upscaling.
| EndsOfnversion wrote:
| There are several issues with remastering Babylon 5:
|
| 1) the variable frame rate: live action is 24p anything with
| CG is effectively 60p (both in a 60i container). This is
| difficult to do in HD.
|
| 2) a lot of the source materials for the CG are scattered to
| the winds, and the surviving stuff is in semi-obscure
| formats, that make re-rendering expensive.
|
| A few people on youtube have posted fan restorations of the
| CG based on source-material that have fallen into their
| hands, and it looks pretty good... but I can't see WB making
| the same effort to restore the CG further. Maybe as AI
| upscaling improves - it might look better.
|
| 3) Questions around 16:9 vs 4:3 framing.
|
| Either way - great show - but HD doesn't do some of the aets
| any favours.
| SG- wrote:
| the original film wasn't destroyed, but all the 3D assets were
| lost/destroyed making a remaster impossible. they had an idea
| to simply re-render it all at maybe higher resolution and
| possibly higher resolution textures/effects but that proved
| impossible with the data loss.
|
| when they recently made a new movie a few years ago they used
| fan models for getting a 3D B5 going.
| 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
| Are the original assets that important? Presumably they are
| potato quality relative to modern expectations and have to be
| recreated anyways. So long as you did not require perfect
| fidelity, pixel-to-pixel rendition, but something within the
| spirit of the show. Rendering some space blobs seems
| attainable by a guy with Blender and Unreal.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Nostalgia just entered the room... These were the good old times
| when we had an excellent TV series (not only B5 but others like
| STTNG, DS9, BSG) and a cleaner/better internet with people that
| cared. Call me old school, bye these times are long gone and
| aren't going to return.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| BSG came quite a few years later (assuming you do mean the
| remake?).
|
| There were other gems around that time though. I was chatting
| to friends about the Outer Limits just yesterday. Plus let's
| not forget the other Star Trek franchise; Voyager.
|
| I also love(d) Stargate SG1 (this was a little later too IIRC
| but _much_ closer in time frame than BSG).
|
| There were some pretty weird shows too. Some people liked
| Fargate. I personally couldn't get into that particular show.
| But I did enjoy Lexx.
|
| Edit: a little later (possibly around the time of BSG), but
| Firefly and Dollhouse shouldn't be forgotten either.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| By Fargate, did you mean Farscape? I didn't watch it until
| like 10 years ago and really enjoyed it even though it's the
| opposite of Star Trek. Babylon 5 is what I grew up on at a
| very young age and it really partially shaped how I see the
| world today in a way.
| blooalien wrote:
| I had _so many hours_ of fun playin ' with Lightwave 3D on my
| Commodore Amiga back when this show came out. Blender's my "go-
| to" software for all those needs now, but man... How _amazing_ it
| felt to have access to the same exact software and hardware used
| to produce a major TV show (and a _ton_ of commercials and other
| things around that industry) back then. Good times...
| dayvid wrote:
| I haven't started it yet, but saw this viewing guide which helps
| reduce filler episodes for those wanting to get into the series
| with limited time:
| https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-b...
| TillE wrote:
| Babylon 5 remains almost unique in its particular tone of
| melodrama, its very theatrical acting with larger-than-life
| characters. I love it for that, despite one or two actors who
| aren't very good.
|
| Midwinter's episode ratings are a pretty good guide to which ones
| are skippable, though there's only a handful of episodes that are
| truly disposable filler. It's a remarkable achievement for 90s
| TV.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| It's a funny show because it has so many flaws:
|
| - the acting is terrible,
|
| - dialog is pretty corny in places
|
| - the alien prosthetics look silly
|
| - the CGI, while technically impressive, look cartoonish (even
| in true in its era)
|
| Yes despite all this, it's still amazing and, for me at least,
| it becomes very easy to look past those faults.
|
| In my opinion it's one of the best sci-fi shows ever written
| for its world building. You genuinely buy into the politics.
|
| I just wish they weren't messed around with the cancellation,
| then renewal of season 5 because that completely destroyed the
| pacing of the last two seasons.
| cbanek wrote:
| While some parts can be pretty corny, let me call out the
| music as amazing. Each episode has a lot more unique music
| than I thought!
| helpfulclippy wrote:
| One thing I think B5 still comes in very strong for is
| maintaining a coherent vision throughout the series. Modern TV
| storytelling will develop a story arc, but that arc is
| generally contained to a season. The characters as a whole
| develop in ways that matter between seasons, but I usually
| don't get the sense that each season is working in concert to
| tell a coherent and well-paced story. Some more recent series
| like Breaking Bad (or Better Call Saul, for that matter) have
| done a really good job of telling a great story that unfolds
| over the whole run of the show -- but I feel it remains the
| exception.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Coincidentally, I recently (in the last few days) started
| rewatching B5.
| cpeterso wrote:
| If you just started watching, I strongly recommend following
| the Lurker's Guide's viewing order, especially if you intend to
| watch the movies the _Crusade_ spinoff:
|
| http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html
|
| A comparison of the Lurker's Guide's and others' viewing order:
|
| https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order
| cbanek wrote:
| In the last few days I just finished watching it! Totally worth
| every time.
| pndy wrote:
| J M Straczynski and B Zabel in 2004 wrote "Star Trek: Re-boot the
| universe" proposal
|
| > Concept
|
| > What we propose is not Star Trek: Another Generation, or Star
| Trek: A New Ship, or even Star Trek: The Search for Plots. In
| other words, not a copy of a copy, or a distillation of a
| variation. We want to re-boot STAR TREK. The original. Pure and
| simple. The characters, universe and situations that have
| attracted, and continue to attract, a worldwide audience. Re-
| set... re-imagined... re-invigorated...
|
| https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004r...
|
| And IIRC he also on few occasions mentioned he'd like to
| contribute to Doctor Who universe
| topkai22 wrote:
| This is a great example of the non commercial works of passion
| that were a much larger post of the internet in the 90s.
| Text/picture web has lost a lot of personality of that era- this
| world have been crowded out by wikia or similar today.
|
| I readily admit the internet is more usable today, but in miss
| engaging with sites with a clear voice like this.
|
| And yes, the first 3.5 seasons of B5 are incredible.
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(page generated 2024-09-08 23:00 UTC)