[HN Gopher] Unconventional Case Study of Neoadjuvant Oncolytic V...
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Unconventional Case Study of Neoadjuvant Oncolytic Virotherapy for
Breast Cancer
Author : Amezarak
Score : 79 points
Date : 2024-09-06 16:20 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.mdpi.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.mdpi.com)
| v3ss0n wrote:
| Really facinating. Using Virus to cure cancer.
|
| Just like from I Am Legend movie.
|
| ``` The movie opens with a scene of Dr. Alice Krippin, who
| created the virus to cure cancer, discussing her work. Krippin
| states that 10,009 clinical trials were completed and all of the
| participants were successfully cured. However, it is later
| discovered that the virus is lethal.
|
| A genetically modified measles virus kills most humans and turns
| some people into mutant creatures.
|
| ```
|
| I hope it wont end up like `I Am Legend` movie. How long those
| research are being there , the movie script is a coincidence?
| aplummer wrote:
| This is the real world where science has redefined life
| expectancy and saves millions of lives a year, not a fictional
| will smith movie.
| folli wrote:
| That's not the point, oncolytic viruses have been researched
| since the 1950s.
|
| The fascinating thing is that this has been done in a self-
| experiment with viruses grown in her own lab.
| ldayley wrote:
| This is a fascinating area of research in general, but what's
| notable here is that the researcher herself was afflicted with
| the tumors and self-administered these experimental treatments!
| folli wrote:
| The science is not new, but the reason why this paper is raising
| some eyebrows is the following:
|
| Institutional Review Board Statement
|
| This is a case of self-experimentation. As such, it does not
| require ethics committee review [33,34,35]. The study was
| feasible only due to the unique situation in which the patient
| was also an expert virologist. The patient was fully aware of her
| illness as well as of available therapies, and as a scientist in
| the field of virology, she was aware of the potential of
| oncolytic virotherapy. After two recurrences of the same tumour,
| she wanted to try an innovative approach in a scientifically
| sound way. Her oncologists (the leading oncologists in Croatia
| for breast cancer) accepted to monitor the progress of the
| treatment, primarily with the aim of discontinuing the injections
| and intervening with conventional therapy if there were untoward
| effects or if the tumour progressed.
| kortex wrote:
| Definitely eyebrow raising but I'm always a fan of a bit of
| "mad scientist" self-experimentation (within reason), whether
| it be Barry Marshall chugging H. pylori or Thought Emporium
| giving himself lactase gene therapy.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| > The patient, who is also an expert virologist, anticipating
| that the recurrent tumour would be of TNBC phenotype for which
| therapies of only limited efficacies exist, informed her
| oncologists that she was going to treat this tumour by the i.t.
| administration of viruses similar to oncolytic viruses (that were
| in clinical development for BC) before undergoing any other
| treatment.
|
| Really smart to use the viral therapy before chemotherapy, since
| chemotherapy dampens the immune system, and the immune system
| probably promotes further tumor clearance once the tumors soften
| and are full of viruses.
| trhway wrote:
| Yes, the catch-22 mentioned in the article is that the clinical
| studies are done on late stage patients with usually at that
| point severely damaged immune system which of course wouldn't
| produce desired effect especially if it is about using virus to
| cause flooding of the tumor with the immune response cells and
| not about virus directly attacking cancer cells. Also in the
| metastatic late stage one can imagine it isn't really possible
| to inject each tumor.
| Galatians4_16 wrote:
| Cool, but how can we hack this?
| seism wrote:
| With a Hackathon! And a couple of cohorts, just to be on the
| safe side.
| Filligree wrote:
| So the treatment worked, and she appears to be recovered from
| what might otherwise have been treatment-resistant, fatal cancer.
|
| But she was only able to do so because of having the skill and
| access needed to self-administer the cure. How many people die
| every year because we don't dare risk any deaths from uncertain
| treatments like these? Sure, they aren't ever going to be
| perfect, but- what's the _net_?
| admissionsguy wrote:
| For this reason I have mixed feelings concerning Richard
| Scolyer's glioblastoma treatment. On one hand it's great that
| he has possibly found something that works and will in time
| become the new standard of care. At the same time it is
| disturbing that thousands of patients who are not renowned
| scientists have to die without a chance to try the same
| treatment.
| teyc wrote:
| You make a good point. Could there be a case for new ethical
| considerations to be made. The issue is patients are very
| vulnerable and no one really knows how bad the downside may
| be. A prolonged agonising or disabling death can be far
| worse.
| melling wrote:
| It is disturbing. For some reason it's not disturbing enough
| that we spend more to try and cure these diseases.
|
| The Last Lecture was given almost 20 years ago. Pancreatic
| cancer is just as deadly today.
|
| https://youtu.be/ji5_MqicxSo?si=bn6VBPaWraUfO-zC
| daveguy wrote:
| There is a lot of leeway (in the US) for treatment of terminal
| diseases with the Right to Try Act:
|
| https://www.fda.gov/patients/learn-about-expanded-access-and...
| o11c wrote:
| And unfortunately, that leads to a _lot_ of wasted money. It
| 's practically a scam, preying on the helpless.
| Laaas wrote:
| It's a scam to be able to try experimental treatments for
| your otherwise fatal disease?
| arcticbull wrote:
| The counter-argument is "how many more would die if we just let
| desperate people yolo on themselves." Which brings us back to
| the current compromise solutions.
| BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
| We probably should let them if they've exhausted other
| options right?
| melling wrote:
| Let them what? Enroll in a clinical trial? Buy drugs from
| some website?
|
| Get a PhD to try and cure their own disease?
|
| https://www.wired.com/story/sleep-no-more-crusade-genetic-
| ki...
| wslh wrote:
| I believe the main point is to allow the patient to
| choose from a set of treatments. Correct me if I'm wrong,
| but isn't this already happening at some level, where
| patients receive treatments that are in advanced stages
| of drug trials?
|
| I imagine there could be other options available, and
| many times the issues are related to logistics,
| bureaucracy, and corruption. For instance, many people
| around the world go hungry due to logistical challenges
| (e.g., political interference) [1].
|
| It seems we accept the status quo, while some companies
| are sending cheaper spacecraft into space.
|
| [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/z
| ye4gm/w...
| melling wrote:
| People can enroll in clinical trials.
|
| https://clinicaltrials.gov/
| bawolff wrote:
| I think the main worry is scam artists who essentially pray
| on desperate people with "cures" that do nothing at best
| and shorten their lives at worse.
|
| I'm fine with letting people try whatever they want if
| there are no other options (their life, although informed
| consent is tricky) however i dont think we should allow
| marketing such things to patients or allow anyone making
| money off it.
| melling wrote:
| I think I've been hearing this argument for the last 40 years.
| How many miracle cures have we missed? None
|
| If you really want to cure cancer, and other diseases like ALS,
| etc, invest the money and resources necessary to do it.
| nyanpasu64 wrote:
| Who was injecting the tumor? I'm squeamish enough I can't imagine
| being able to inject myself, let alone into a tumor...
| TexanFeller wrote:
| This is particularly interesting to me because someone very close
| to me is in treatment for fairly advanced BC. While it might not
| be in time to help her, it's exciting that someone is finally
| trying something very different than the normal approaches.
| Breast cancer treatment has continually advanced, but with only
| slow incremental progress, and where treatment is now still feels
| extremely primitive. In addition to having potentially life
| threatening or quality of life destroying side effects most
| normal treatments provide only moderate increase in lifespan
| unless you're lucky enough to have early chemo clear it 100%. As
| I understand it hormone blocker therapy and the *mab drugs used
| in stage four usually lose effectiveness as the cancer mutates,
| such as to not depend on the presence of hormones to grow.
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