[HN Gopher] Show HN: Wealthfolio: Private, open-source investmen...
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Show HN: Wealthfolio: Private, open-source investment tracker
Thank you for your comments, just some context: - The app is a
simple desktop application that works on macOS, Windows, and
Ubuntu. - I developed this app for my own needs. Getting tired of
SaaS app subscriptions and privacy concerns. - For now, the
activities are logged manually or imported from a CSV file. No
integration with Plaid or other platforms. - No monetization is
planned for now (only a "buy me a coffee" if you use and appreciate
the app).
Author : a-fadil
Score : 576 points
Date : 2024-09-06 12:56 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (wealthfolio.app)
(TXT) w3m dump (wealthfolio.app)
| tsycho wrote:
| Does it support options, or only stocks?
|
| How do you get current market prices for investments?
| jimmyswimmy wrote:
| Looks like it uses yahoo_finance_api in rust. In theory that
| supports options, but no idea whether this tool handles that
| data properly, I didn't feel like searching that hard.
|
| It's gonna take a lot to pry me away from my spreadsheets. They
| are simple and just work. Ages and ages ago I used MS Money but
| once they shut down I never migrated to the 'sunset edition,'
| just switched to excel. I keep trying things, but without
| local, automatic sync to my accounts, nothing is as simple and
| effective as a simple spreadsheet, for me.
| steviedotboston wrote:
| Looks nice. One reason why I use a spreadsheet for stuff like
| this is I can share it with my wife through Google Sheets, so we
| can periodically update with our separate accounts.
| Oras wrote:
| Looking good, I've worked in a startup doing this using an app
| (with more things).
|
| Adding accounts manually is painful. We used to do it with Open
| Banking, but since this is open-source, I appreciate that it
| cannot be done with Open Banking. However, an option to upload a
| statement (CSV) will simplify the process.
|
| The same goes for adding securities. I believe you can get an
| eToro statement that shows you everything, and then you can parse
| it to populate the information.
|
| Good luck!
| AndroTux wrote:
| Activity > Upload-Icon (top right) > Drop CSV
| Oras wrote:
| Thanks! I didn't see it. The add activity button is
| prominent!
| diggan wrote:
| First question from reading through the landing page is about
| this part:
|
| > Import your statements from your broker or bank.
|
| Exactly what brokers/banks that are supported should be listed
| somewhere and linked here, as that's a "make or break" feature
| for a lot of people I bet. Not much point in replacing my
| homegrown "Banks CSV export -> Data processing > Import into
| spreadsheet" workflow unless I just replace that last step but
| the previous ones remain the same.
| progforlyfe wrote:
| That's what I was wondering. It's a ton of work, but would love
| the auto importing / screen scraping features that Mint.com
| had. For a local desktop tool it even has the potential to
| support every possible service because they can't do IP
| blocking on end-users (versus the server-to-server model that
| Mint.com had, caused many services to IP block Mint's servers).
|
| Unfortunately, depending on an open-source tool to do this is a
| double edged sword if it had these features, because we would
| be opening the risk of supply-chain attacks -- malicious actors
| getting commits into the repository code which cause the
| program to send your data elsewhere -- or worse, deplete
| accounts' funds.
| diggan wrote:
| > but would love the auto importing / screen scraping
| features that Mint.com had
|
| I never used it, but didn't that ask you for the
| username/password in order to do its job? If so, I wouldn't
| touch it with a ten-foot pole.
|
| > cause the program to send your data elsewhere -- or worse,
| deplete accounts' funds.
|
| Again, seemingly because their shitty architecture would that
| even be possible.
|
| There are modern (possibly only European?) standards nowadays
| that forces the banks to expose proper APIs for doing things
| like that. Would require a business entity to deploy to
| production (I think that's one of the requirements?) but
| otherwise wouldn't be a huge task compared to manually
| scraping stuff.
| nightski wrote:
| Some banks allow you to create separate limited read only
| credentials at least that can be revoked at any time. But
| not all of them allow this.
| al_borland wrote:
| I used Every Dollar for budgeting for a while. It seemed
| mixed. Some banks used auth through the bank that would
| create a token for the site/app, which could be revoked
| through my account when the bank. Others used a 3rd party
| service which required the user enter their bank creds,
| and seemingly trust them.
|
| I was in the market for a new bank, so I ended up coming
| up with my short list of banks I'd look at moving to,
| then went to Every Dollar to try adding accounts to see
| what kind of prompt I was met with. Anything that
| required the 3rd party to store my creds was out of the
| running. I ended up ending a 20+ year relationship with a
| bank of this. There were other things too, but this was
| the straw that got me to actually cut ties.
|
| I assume Mint was similar. I used it a long time ago,
| probably when I was more trusting in my youth.
| j-a-a-p wrote:
| I suppose you mean PSD2. That is mandatory for EU banks
| that do payments. I don't think your stock and crypto
| trading services need to comply.
| jfdjkfdhjds wrote:
| only if there were regulations for consumer banking having
| the bare minimum for application security as is for
| everything else banks themselves depend on.
| mulmen wrote:
| > Unfortunately, depending on an open-source tool to do this
| is a double edged sword if it had these features, because we
| would be opening the risk of supply-chain attacks --
| malicious actors getting commits into the repository code
| which cause the program to send your data elsewhere -- or
| worse, deplete accounts' funds.
|
| This is FUD. You're describing open-commit, which I don't
| think anyone does. Open source is not more susceptible to
| supply chain attacks than closed source software.
| neilv wrote:
| I don't know about Wealthfolio, but the import QFX/OFX/CSV/etc.
| into GnuCash has ways to reconcile that with transactions
| you've manually recorded/edited, which can be _much_ richer
| than the bank or CC knows. (GnuCash also has a way to import
| via network access, but I haven 't tried it.)
|
| (Example of richness: splitting am Amazon CC charge into the
| multiple expense accounts for the items that went into the
| order, and also accounting for the CC rewards and the Gift Card
| balance that contributed.)
|
| I tried taking a break from GnuCash for maybe year, and going
| to a spreadsheet, and found: (1) it was still substantial work
| to maintain an accurate view of balances, and (2) I was missing
| a lot of information I found I needed in practice.
| jsdwarf wrote:
| That's exactly my problem. Assigning the purchase of a new
| computer mouse to the "Expenses:ITEquipment" account? Easy if
| you purchased the mouse at your local computer store and used
| your debit card. Just define a text pattern to make any
| purchase from that store go to the ITEquipment account and
| run it against the csv from your checkings account.
|
| Same purchase from amazon? Difficult, because you have two
| layers of indirection: checking account > credit card >
| amazon > it equipment.
|
| Currently testing a new spreadsheet approach to deal with
| such scenarios, but not easy.
| ska wrote:
| Isnt' why splits exist though? I've never found that to be
| onerous, and I did run a small business on it for a while.
|
| Then again I'd never trust rules to do everything right
| anyway, so I'm reviewing at least once to reconcile.
| klinquist wrote:
| I just assumed it uses Plaid.
| diggan wrote:
| I assume it uses no external services at all as it's supposed
| to be local first and "No Cloud" is basically the first thing
| you see when opening up the landing page.
|
| Not to mention the second paragraph is "no more worries about
| SaaS services playing around with your data"
| aketchum wrote:
| unlikely, who would pay the plaid bill here? they dont really
| have ala cart pricing - you have to create an account with
| them etc
| arez wrote:
| yep, it would be way too expensive
| brutal_boi wrote:
| For that very reason I tried selfhosting Actual Finance[1] but
| it is more of a budgeting app than a networth tracking app.
|
| I ended up coding a small exporter[2] since I already had some
| stack in place that queries SimpleFI[3], which essentially
| allows querying balance and transaction information for most
| US-based banks (read only); most similar to plaid but a lot
| more developer-friendly afaik.
|
| [1] https://actualbudget.com/
|
| [2] https://github.com/eduser25/simplefin-bridge-exporter
|
| [3] https://beta-bridge.simplefin.org/
| figmert wrote:
| I really feel like there should be a tool that wraps Woob[0]
| finance and provides something similar to Plaid, but self-
| hosted. There are some great finance apps that could then
| potentially integrate it to improve automation.
|
| Woob does a great job of providing a good API for automating
| the web, and sure, not everything works, but it's a good start.
| Unfortunately, it seems it's not very well known still.
|
| [0] https://woob.tech/
| aketchum wrote:
| this sounds incredibly hard to do - plaid's moat is that it
| is a bunch of work to keep up to date with all these
| different bank UI's, plus many banks have moved to OAuth
| which they only provide to trusted partners - like plaid. You
| cant get an oauth token to your BofA account just because you
| have an account there
| a-fadil wrote:
| For now only a standard csv file is supported with these
| columns: Date, Symbol, Quantity, Activity Type, Unit Price,
| Currency, and Fee. Supported activity types: BUY SELL DIVIDEND
| INTEREST DEPOSIT WITHDRAWAL TRANSFER_IN TRANSFER_OUT
| CONVERSION_IN CONVERSION_OUT FEE TAX Example CSV format:
| date,symbol,quantity,activityType,unitPrice,currency,fee
| 2024-01-01T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,1,DIVIDEND,57.5,USD,0
| 2023-12-15T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,30,BUY,368.6046511627907,USD,0
| 2023-08-11T14:55:30.863Z,$CASH-USD,600.03,DEPOSIT,1,USD,0
| cvoss wrote:
| Seems like this arrangement of columns can't properly support
| dividends, as 1) there is no change to the held quantity when
| a dividend is issued, 2) the unit price of the symbol is
| irrelevant, and 3) there is no column to record the actual
| amount received. My bank records a quantity of 0 and a dummy
| unit price of $1. It would be incorrect for the bank to
| record a non-zero quantity.
| anamexis wrote:
| Why would that preclude supporting dividends? As you
| mentioned, unit price and quantity can simply be ignored
| for those rows.
| dv_dt wrote:
| An tool (maybe AI) that processes PDF statements and outputs
| the structured importable positions & transactions would be
| appealing to me. No live online link to be compromised, or at
| lease a simpler fetch statement PDF scrape (vs maintain scrape
| of broker sites).
| jonromero wrote:
| We try doing that with HeyFire.co - import from a screenshot
| that is processed on your browser! But with a high rate of
| hit or miss right now.
| halfdan wrote:
| Portfolio Performance (http://portfolio-performance.app) does
| just that.
| Onavo wrote:
| I have found https://teller.io to be really good for this. They
| are more affordable than Plaid too at the lower end of scale.
|
| I have also seen some apps use https://www.simplefin.org/
| jfdjkfdhjds wrote:
| it's open source... so all of them?
| groby_b wrote:
| That's a somewhat useless statement. "I have a hello world on
| github. It's Open Source, so it can solve all your problems"
| is both true and not helpful at all.
| ryandrake wrote:
| As an avid, daily Quicken user, yes, seamless integration with
| financial institutions is my #1 requirement. I am not willing
| to manually navigate a dozen banks' broken UIs to find their
| "download CSV" option, hope it works, download a bunch of files
| to my computer, and then hope that they can be imported into my
| application--and then repeat every day when I update.
|
| I have in the past switched physical banks purely because their
| integration was either terrible or not working and I refused to
| go the "download CSV" route.
|
| Unfortunately some banks are starting to drop support for
| applications directly connecting to them, and moving to an
| unacceptable model where intermediaries like Intuit's servers
| have to do the communication _and store your credentials_. This
| has been getting noticeably shittier in the last couple of
| years.
|
| My #2 requirement (a close second) is that the application must
| be running on my local PC. I will never accept a cloud-based
| web-app or something I have to host on a VPS and access through
| some dinky HTML/JS UI.
| ghosty141 wrote:
| > I am not willing to manually navigate a dozen banks' broken
| UIs to find their "download CSV"
|
| > My #2 requirement (a close second) is that the application
| must be running on my local PC. I will never accept a cloud-
| based web-app
|
| You're lucky you don't live in the EU since well then you are
| straight out of luck since the bank APIs are only available
| to commercial entities thus the software generally is in the
| cloud and costs money.
| fmbb wrote:
| Is it illegal for banks to provide private customers
| personal API access?
| earnesti wrote:
| I don't think it is illegal at all. Banks just don't want
| to offer such features.
| franga2000 wrote:
| Not that I know of, but I've never seen one that does.
| And it's not like API access for company accounts is
| common - what the EU regulation requires, which is the
| only thing most babks support now, is that anyone can
| access their own accounts through a licensed account
| information provider.
|
| Under the "open banking" scheme, not even massive
| companies can get API access to their own accounts. It
| only requires banks to give service providers access that
| allows their customers to essentially OAuth login into
| those services with their bank accounts. There is no "I
| just want my own account" API, only the general one.
|
| And becoming a licensed provider is insanely hard because
| it's assumed you'll be actively managing millions of
| euros for tens of thousands of customers, when in
| reality, all you want is read-only access to one or a few
| affiliated accounts.
| mesk wrote:
| I use one that has public API, fio.cz in Czechia. There
| are surely others...
| tucosan wrote:
| Banks in Germany offer access to consumers via the HBCI
| standard. Not sure about the rest of the EU.
| stuckkeys wrote:
| This sounds illegal and against what GDPR stands for.
| stephenbez wrote:
| Why is accessing your own banking data through a standard
| against what GDPR stands for? GDPR has a right to data
| portability.
| stuckkeys wrote:
| I miss interpreted. I thought someone else can gain
| access to consumer data.
| pwagland wrote:
| Banks in Germany provide it because of EU regulation.
|
| https://www.digiteal.eu/open-banking-apis-all-you-need-
| to-kn...
| mesk wrote:
| fio.cz has one - https://www.fio.cz/bank-
| services/internetbanking-api
| ctippett wrote:
| Obviously the UK is not the EU... but Starling Bank offer
| an API that you can use to access your personal bank
| account. I'm sure Monzo and other neo-banks offer similar
| functionality.
| augstein wrote:
| Banks generally support HBCI standard (in Central/Western
| Europe)
|
| Thats why using apps like Outbank, that automatically
| aggregate all your bank accounts data work like a charm in
| my experience.
| dgemm wrote:
| Interesting perspective because my #1 requirement is that no
| 3rd party gets financial login credentials at all. I'm
| willing to do CSVs in order to not compromise on security,
| although the experience most certainly is bad.
| moneywoes wrote:
| is there a zapier for integrations that could be used
| throw0101b wrote:
| > [...] and store your credentials.
|
| And doing so violates the terms of service with many banks:
|
| > _You agree that you will not authorize a third party to use
| the Service or share your credentials with a third party to
| use the Service on your behalf except in legally authorized
| situations such as legal guardianship or pursuant to a power
| of attorney._
|
| * https://www.bankofamerica.com/online-banking/service-
| agreeme...
| labbett wrote:
| I stopped using services like Coinbase that force you into
| Plaid. My final straw was getting a notification that I had
| to relink my accounts because I had changed my bank's
| password.
|
| The banks are just as to blame. I'd love some basic non-SMS
| 2FA as a starting point, but sadly my bank is only the #6
| largest in the US so they don't have the budget for it.
| samstave wrote:
| # Bank of America (BofA)
|
| BofA Login https://www.bankofamerica.com/
|
| 1. Log in to your account.
|
| 2. Go to "Activity" or "Statements".
|
| 3. Select the account and time range.
|
| 4. Click "Download" and choose "CSV". Yes
|
| --
|
| # Chase Chase Login
|
| 1. Log in to your Chase account.
|
| 2. Navigate to "Statements & Documents".
|
| 3. Choose the account and statement period.
|
| 4. Click "Download" and select "CSV". Yes
|
| --
|
| # Wells Fargo Wells Fargo Login
|
| 1. Log in to your account.
|
| 2. Go to "Account Activity".
|
| 3. Select "Download Account Activity".
|
| 4. Choose "CSV" and specify the time period. Yes
|
| # Citibank Citibank Login
|
| 1. Log in to your account.
|
| 2. Go to "Statements".
|
| 3. Choose the time period and format.
|
| 4. Select "Download" in "CSV". Yes
|
| # Capital One Capital One Login
|
| 1. Log in to your account.
|
| 2. Navigate to the "Account Activity".
|
| 3. Select the time period and click "Download".
|
| 4. Choose "CSV". Yes
| groby_b wrote:
| That's the core question. This is 99% of the value that any
| such tool provides.
|
| An open source project that had import flows for all the major
| banks & brokers into a well-defined unified format? Tremendous
| impact.
|
| A graphing tool that only imports a standardized CSV? I can do
| that in my spreadsheet in minutes.
| rexreed wrote:
| The Spreadsheet-based workflow works very well for me as well.
| I have a feeling a very large % of people manage their personal
| finances on a spreadsheet. And it's private, not cloud based,
| backupable, and password protected.
| oezi wrote:
| I have been very happy with https://www.portfolio-
| performance.info/en/ which is also Open Source, local/desktop and
| quite advanced.
| tinyhouse wrote:
| This looks like a great idea. Are there similar OS alternative
| apps for YNAB / RocketMoney type functionality?
| freddie_mercury wrote:
| Actual Budget is basically an open source clone of YNAB. The UI
| isn't quite as polished IMHO.
| TexanFeller wrote:
| "Local Data Storage. No Subscriptions, No Cloud"
|
| This is what we need more often from our software, especially
| from software that works with sensitive data. I do typically want
| sync options though since I tend to use several different devices
| and it sucks not being able to reference information on the go
| from my phone. Sync options can include locally/self hosted
| options or use something like iCloud that don't depend on a
| software vendor's running a service though.
| jxf wrote:
| > Sync options can include locally/self hosted options or use
| something like iCloud that don't depend on a software vendor's
| running a service though.
|
| Don't most sync options depend on a software vendor running a
| service? (Your VPS hosting company, your SaaS handling cross-
| device syncing, your cloud provider, et cetera.)
| mr_mitm wrote:
| If I can specify the data location, I could just use syncthing
| or dropbox or whatever. Syncing directories is mostly a solved
| problem.
| picardo wrote:
| > This is what we need more often from our software, especially
| from software that works with sensitive data.
|
| Storing sensitive data in local storage makes you vulnerable to
| XSS attacks and Man-in-the-Browser attacks. You're exposing
| your sensitive data to an attacker that injects a script to the
| website and to malicious browser extensions. All sensitive data
| stored in local storage must be encrypted using a key stored in
| the server or somewhere on your hard disk. Otherwise, you're
| not reducing your risk, but substituting one type of
| information disclosure vulnerability with another.
| diggan wrote:
| > Storing sensitive data in local storage makes you
| vulnerable to XSS attacks and Man-in-the-Browser attacks.
| You're exposing your sensitive data to an attacker that
| injects a script to the website and to malicious browser
| extensions
|
| The app in question runs locally and only with trusted code.
| How is the attacker supposed to get in there to place the XSS
| or even do a MITM attack when there is no exposed website at
| all? Neither are there browser extensions involved here.
|
| > All sensitive data stored in local storage must be
| encrypted using a key stored in the server
|
| Huh? Please don't do this, especially not for "local first"
| applications, would defeat the entire purpose.
| picardo wrote:
| > only with trusted code
|
| That's a big assumption. Have you read all the code, and
| the dependencies of the dependencies of your code? If you
| haven't, how do you know it can be trusted? What if there
| is a backdoor in an obscure dependency that can inject a
| script into your website to steal your sensitive data?
| Don't laugh it off. When there is money on the line,
| someone is going to try it.
|
| > Neither are there browser extensions involved here.
|
| What about the extensions you installed in your browser?
| What about the user scripts (if you use them)?
|
| > Huh? Please don't do this, especially not for "local
| first" applications, would defeat the entire purpose.
|
| Why not? Why do you want a local first app in the first
| place? What's the purpose of a local first app, if not
| security?
| diggan wrote:
| I think you're misunderstanding what kind of application
| this is.
|
| It's not a website, it doesn't run in your normal
| browser. It runs as a standalone application.
|
| > Why not? Why do you want a local first app in the first
| place? What's the purpose of a local first app, if not
| security?
|
| Because as soon as those keys aren't available (either
| because the endpoint no longer exists, or you cannot
| connect to the endpoint for whatever reason (like being
| offline)), you can no longer access your data.
|
| That isn't "local first" at all, it's something else
| entirely.
| picardo wrote:
| > Because as soon as those keys aren't available (either
| because the endpoint no longer exists, or you cannot
| connect to the endpoint for whatever reason (like being
| offline)), you can no longer access your data.
|
| The encryption key doesn't have to be stored in the
| cloud. It just has to be stored somewhere else -- it
| could be in the file system.
|
| > It's not a website, it doesn't run in your normal
| browser. It runs as a standalone application.
|
| Even if it's a standalone application, it doesn't mean
| the code can be entirely trusted. I wouldn't take that
| risk.
| diggan wrote:
| > The encryption key doesn't have to be stored in the
| cloud. It just has to be stored somewhere else -- it
| could be in the file system.
|
| Right, makes sense. I was saying to not store it in the
| cloud, specifically. Encrypt local data at rest, makes
| sense. Storing encryption keys for said content somewhere
| where you need internet access to get, doesn't make much
| sense.
|
| > Even if it's a standalone application, it doesn't mean
| the code can be entirely trusted. I wouldn't take that
| risk.
|
| "Trusted" here refers to "not user provided inputs" that
| SaaS/website usually does somewhere. Obviously, there is
| code somewhere that you haven't read and verified, that's
| true for literally everyone using a computer today, no
| one has read and verified all the code they've run, we'd
| get nothing done if that was common practice.
|
| Just for curiosities sake, what OS you use and how much
| of your software you use daily have you read through the
| source code of?
| picardo wrote:
| > what OS you use and how much of your software you use
| daily have you read through the source code of?
|
| Very few. It depends on the data I need to store in the
| program. I don't store sensitive data in Figma or VSCode,
| so I don't really care if they don't encrypt my data in
| local storage. But if I'm in the market for something
| that offers to manage my sensitive financial data, then
| yes, I want to dig into its dependencies and security
| strategy first.
| LifeUtilityApps wrote:
| I built a similar tool to what OP shared, mainly for debts
| instead of investments, and I completely agree with you. My app
| only uses iCloud to sync and it keeps all sensitive data on the
| user's phone. Another benefit I want to share about this
| approach is it means that apps built local-only will never have
| the risk of one day going offline and being inaccessible due to
| the company closing down or turning off the server.
| dewey wrote:
| It feels like one of these things where a commercial version has
| a lot of benefits as most of the interesting APIs in this field
| are paid, or for banks require a B2B agreement for automatic
| imports.
| Circlecrypto2 wrote:
| Man... The loss of Mint has really left a gap in this market.
| r3trohack3r wrote:
| I have been using Empower (previously Personal Capital) for
| almost 10 years now and have been happy enough
| mindwork wrote:
| Once Mint.com has closed I started to dig for alternatives and
| found Monarch Money. Couldn't be happier to pay for the
| service. New features come out pretty often, and I believe they
| work on the better support for tracking investments.
| impostervt wrote:
| Seconded. I used Personal Capital for a while but the links
| to my accounts broke frequently. Moved to Monarch and paid
| for it and its way less of a hassle.
| pama wrote:
| I agree Monarch is a decent automation option. It is
| expensive but at least it works pretty well and improves
| over time.
|
| Here is a referal link:
|
| https://www.monarchmoney.com/referral/o2tggyqpo9
| dalyons wrote:
| same journey as me. monach is great, very happy with it. What
| initially sold me on monarch was the cash flow mgmt &
| visualization. I could never actually get cash flow to work
| on empower, it gets confused by things like investment
| transfers and is not overridable enough. Empower in general
| feels very jank in comparison now.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Not really: Ever since Mint's shut down, there have been
| replacements pouring out of the woodwork. It's a low-hanging-
| fruit (Due to aggregators like Plaid), saturated marked. Note
| that the OP's program is a bit different in that it's local,
| and seems to focus on individual investments vice online
| account aggregation.
| kyrofa wrote:
| v1.0 before 100 commits, wow.
| Ringz wrote:
| Only if you assume that it is their first repository and that
| they performed the first commit after the first line of code.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| It appears that it does not use 0ver: https://0ver.org/
| kyrofa wrote:
| Haha, you just made my day. How have I not seen this?! Thank
| you.
| a-fadil wrote:
| I developed, the app as a side project for my needs. Made the
| decision to move to another public repository to open sourced
| and not to keep the git history. App code is simple to read if
| you want to check security and privacy concerns.
| lucasfdacunha wrote:
| This looks nice.
|
| Does this work for the international market, like Brazil for
| example? Does it track fixed-income types of investments like
| government bonds, etc?
| Dalewyn wrote:
| Speaking practically, I don't see a need or reason for this. I
| can just login to my bank and brokerage accounts and check live
| data on the spot.
|
| Speaking as a Boglehead, checking on your investments frequently
| is usually a bad thing.
| diggan wrote:
| > Speaking practically, I don't see a need or reason for this.
| I can just login to my bank and brokerage accounts and check
| live data on the spot.
|
| First mentioned and most prominent feature is "Accounts
| Aggregation" on the landing page. If you don't have multiple
| accounts, it makes sense you don't see any need for this. But
| you should also realize that it's fairly common to have
| multiple accounts, for various of reasons.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| I haven't used it myself (yet?), but both my bank and my
| brokerage purport to let me link external accounts for easier
| aggregated viewing.
| downut wrote:
| I have multiple accounts and I use the friction of logging in
| manually to each as an incentive not to check them. About
| every 6 months or more I get a beer, login to each, and check
| for surprises. Ever since decades ago I gave up my personal
| autonomy (I will not pick stocks, GE, really?) and channeled
| my inner boglehead there has not been any surprises.
| mNovak wrote:
| My main brokerage (Schwab, and I assume most others) have
| account aggregation built in, so that's become my de facto
| 'wealth manager' dashboard.
|
| Now, those external accounts are second-class citizens and
| don't get portfolio analysis and stuff like that, so there is
| room for improvement, but the ease of use and cost (free) is
| hard to beat.
| scosman wrote:
| RRSP and CAD on the homepage . So few financial apps work for
| Canadians.
| ape4 wrote:
| Its common for Canadians to have USD and CAD investments so
| that means the app will have to handle multiple currencies
| which is a useful feature for any investment app.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| Presumably the Canadian government has a concrete plan to
| implement Open Banking this year [1]. I have been told by an
| industry insider that if things go as planned, apps should
| start to support Canadian banks by next year.
|
| [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/department-
| finance/programs/financi...
| figmert wrote:
| Note that this is a desktop app developed via Tauri.
|
| It would be great to turn this into a hosted service that I can
| deploy onto a homelab and access everywhere?
| herodotus wrote:
| Looks interesting. I have tried it out. Cannot see how to do this
| step:
|
| > Import your statements from your broker or bank.
| AndroTux wrote:
| Activity > Upload-Icon (top right) > Drop CSV
| herodotus wrote:
| Thanks!
| oulipo wrote:
| quite nice! It would be great to have a bit more infos about how
| to get setup, how to input existing values from accounts, etc
|
| I think I got it right after doing a "deposit" of the exact value
| of my account, then try to work out what was the correct "buy"
| price for each stock without the P/L, it roughly works but the
| numbers don't exactly match those that I have in my account,
| perhaps because you're not using the same data source as my
| account
| alex_suzuki wrote:
| While you're at it, have a look at Ghostfolio too:
| https://ghostfol.io/en/start Open Source and self-hostable.
| hammock wrote:
| How does this compare to Simplifi, Empower, etc?
| yesimahuman wrote:
| Looks very cool. I started working on my own version of this to
| self host in my LAN. First issue I ran into was the lack of
| understanding certain CSV formats. For example, Vanguard is so
| common that I support their export format exactly. Might be worth
| thinking about focusing on a few common brokerages (vanguard,
| fidelity, schwab) and making the experience for those really
| good. Otherwise it's all too manual and most people won't bother
| going through the hassle of it all.
| tomlue wrote:
| just want to mention that it's like a few hours to set up some
| google sheets scripts to set up 90% of this yourself.
| constantinum wrote:
| Not sure why this is downvoted. I settled with spreadsheets
| after trying out lots of such trackers. The frustration in your
| comment, I can feel. A lots of similar comments also reflecting
| the same about spreadsheets.
| tomlue wrote:
| I wasn't really trying to be negative about the original
| post. That last 10% can be super valuable for many people!
| user_agent wrote:
| I've put 15 minutes of my work into configuring the app. Even on
| that surface level I can conclude that the application is full of
| bugs that impact accounts and savings. It looks good, but it's
| unusable for any serius purpose. Have a nice day.
| GoRudy wrote:
| Looks like it only takes CSVs, how would we upload documents from
| brokerage accounts?
| palk wrote:
| UI looks way more polished than the competition -- without having
| fully set it up, the app sounds very promising as an alternative
| to SaaS tools. Any plans to monetise?
| ejp wrote:
| Any recommendations for a privacy-focused app that can handle
| transaction splitting in ways other than 50/50? Or tracking
| accounts from multiple people in a household?
|
| Every app I've tried this is painful or unsupported.
| aaronax wrote:
| Any personal accounting software? Quicken, GNUCash, any Plain
| Text Accounting, etc.
|
| I must be missing something in your requirements.
| ejp wrote:
| In my experience, gnucash qualified easily as painful. :)
|
| Here's an example of what I'm talking about: suppose you and
| a housemate decide that an equitable split for the electric
| bill is 65/35 based on usage habits. One person pays the
| electric bill every month. All of these finance apps will
| download the transaction, categorize the electric bill for
| me, and maybe apply a custom tag. But I have to manually
| calculate the amount owed to me, and manually reconcile that
| with the fact that the other person pays the water bill.
|
| I'd love to find an accounting app for shared arrangements,
| but it seems like most are targeted to solo or completely
| joint finances. Monarch listed elsewhere in these comments is
| the closest I've seen, but it also doesn't support
| reconciling split transactions.
| aaronax wrote:
| I see. I split my monthly cell phone bill among 8 family
| members. This is a manual process, but not too bad since I
| do it on average twice a year (faster to sign in and
| download 6 PDFs once than to sign in 6 times to download 1
| PDF each time, etc.). So a few minutes to download 6
| statement PDFs, 10 minutes to key numbers from those PDFs
| into my spreadsheet, and then 15 minutes to go through and
| manually split the transactions based on totals from the
| spreadsheet.
|
| I'm pretty sure I could write a custom importer for
| Beancount but the breakeven point on time would be years.
|
| I think modifying the CSV importer for Beancount to split
| certain transactions to certain percentages would be fairly
| easy--switching to Beancount itself (or other Plain Text
| Accounting software) would of course be monumental. But it
| is the ultimate in flexibility.
| ska wrote:
| Part of what you found painful about gnucash is probably
| that it handles cases like this properly. Not saying it
| (gnucash) is perfect - far from - but a certain amount of
| effort is I think a side effect of having both proper
| accounting practice and configurable account types. Not
| sure you'll find something really easy that also does it
| well. In your case different peoples expense accounts would
| keep a rolling tally and help you figure out what the end
| of month transaction should be to even things out.
|
| But any tech may be overkill. In a e.g. roommate situation,
| a paper record per month (plus receipts, if lower trust)
| works fine.
| diegoholiveira wrote:
| GnuCash may be a good option
| sushiburps wrote:
| https://www.splitwise.com/
| mNovak wrote:
| I used to really like Splitwise for group expenses, but they
| at some point throttled the free accounts to 4
| transactions/day, which is painful. Paying a monthly
| subscription isn't worthwhile if I only use it in bursts a
| couple times a year, so its back to spreadsheets.
| snide wrote:
| Really happy with Projection Lab in this space. Although it's not
| open source, it is self-hostable if you pay for their lifetime
| access. The developer continues to update it, and has pretty much
| all the features I want for managing retirement projections.
| vectoral wrote:
| ProjectionLab is great, it's been fun to watch it grow over the
| last few years!
| scubakid wrote:
| Oh hey, thanks! Working hard to make PL a little better every
| day :)
| wingin wrote:
| another lifetime subscriber here, highly recommend!
| hansoolo wrote:
| Is it specifically for the north American financial market /
| system?
| LifeUtilityApps wrote:
| This looks really nice, and I love that it's open source and all
| the data is saved locally. I will give it a try this weekend!
| gniting wrote:
| Looks great, nice job!
|
| Crypto asset tracking on the roadmap?
| a-fadil wrote:
| Supports Crypto Assets as well.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| It's a beautiful design, and I like the idea of OSS and self-
| hosted instead of a SaaS, but since it doesn't support direct
| connections to banks/brokerages (i.e., through Plaid), then it's
| not really an option for me. I'm not going to go through the
| trouble of downloading/importing CSVs etc. (too many different
| accounts). (I currently use Wealthfront for net worth aggregation
| and Copilot for tracking spending.)
| balderdash wrote:
| I don't know - I really don't like having those credentials in
| third parties hands - but I just do this stuff quarterly
| kevstev wrote:
| Agreed- but an app on my own desktop I would be happy to give
| to, at least instead of a website where they are stored in a
| database on someone else's box.
| skim wrote:
| This looks great. Is there more information on the external
| connections the app makes? So far I see:
|
| wealthfolio.app yahoo.com
|
| I'm assuming latter is to fetch ticker symbols, but ideally would
| like to use this app completely local.
| a-fadil wrote:
| wealthfolio.app to check for new app versions. yahoo.com to
| fetch ticker symbols and quotes
| admn2 wrote:
| is Plaid inherently bad? Is having an automated way of pulling in
| real time data worth the security risk of authing into all your
| bank accounts? Genuinely asking as this seems great in theory,
| but I'm a bit confused what it looks like to manually keep it
| updated.
| aketchum wrote:
| My company is an online lender - we use plaid so that users may
| instantly link their bank account. They have an alternative of
| verifying with micro-deposits, but that does take 2 days and
| the company gets less information on the user, so there are
| more manual verifications the user must do (provide paystub and
| id etc).
|
| Plaid Cons:
|
| - The end user must type their bank account credentials into a
| third party platform that uses their banks logo. It is terrible
| for general population cyber security because this is the exact
| type of you thing you should never do in general. However I do
| not know of any data leaks or info sec issues from Plaid
| specifically. As far as I know Plaid is totally safe with this
| information. Im sure they will be hacked eventually though -
| everyone is.
|
| - Plaid shows the permission you are granting but the user can
| not make it more restrictive. For example the company with the
| plaid integration can choose from 1 to all off these
| functionalities (they all increase api cost though): KYC
| Verification, PII from the account, one time current balance,
| ongoing current balance check, all transactions for previous
| 2-24 months. The vendor chooses what they want to get and the
| end user can take it or leave it, they cant pick and choose.
|
| Plaid Pros:
|
| - instantly verify bank account instead of waiting 1-2 days for
| Micro Deposits to hit account then come back to the app to
| verify. This is just better flow for the user, who often wants
| the loan asap. It is better for company too, because there is
| more conversion.
|
| - balance checks, transaction history - these are useful for us
| to not overdraw accounts when pulling a payment, and verify
| income. Budgeting apps use these to auto import values of
| course.
|
| - many banks have been forced to move to OAuth because of
| plaid. Having worked at a Top 10 US bank, I do not believe that
| any other than maybe Capital One would have OAuth today if it
| were not for Plaid pushing them
|
| - There is really no other feasible option to get this data
| (other than competitors with same exact strategy so no
| difference). This is the customer's data that is valuable to
| them! They should be able to share it with trusted partners if
| it gives them value.
| jjice wrote:
| I was pleasantly surprised to see a few of the large banks
| having added OAuth in my recent use of a product that uses
| Plaid. That said, my local bank is far from it and even a
| large bank like Discover doesn't offer OAuth yet. I've just
| decided that I have to enter that data manually for those
| accounts because I can't give out a password to my bank
| accounts - it's just absurd to me.
|
| Here's to a continued migration to OAuth by banks, but I'm
| not holding my breath for it.
| xyst wrote:
| > The end user must type their bank account credentials into
| a third party platform
|
| Huh? I have seen plaid redirect to my banks login and then
| authentication and subsequent authorization (read access to
| accounts) in other flow. Then plaid uses provided token to
| retrieve data.
|
| I don't recall having to pass login credentials to plaid.
| Maybe that's a limitation of _your_ bank?
| smsm42 wrote:
| Yes, for banks that have this workflow enabled. In know WF
| does something like that. But many banks don't, and for
| these there's not much alternative except getting
| username/password and scraping. Terrible security, but
| dragging the banks into 21th century will take a lot of
| time. Some providers are annoying enough to ban external
| aggregation completely, seemingly just out of spite.
| Normally I wouldn't even work with such bank but
| unfortunately sometimes (like HSA account from work) you
| don't have a choice.
| breadwinner wrote:
| If you call Fidelity with a security issue the first question
| they ask you is, did you share your password with anyone (and
| if you did, you're to blame).
| fsckboy wrote:
| that's line of reasoning applies to all banks etc., though
| they might not ask it as first question
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| Yes, but the fault lies with the banks who do not allow their
| own customers access to their data. Plaid, Intuit, and other
| private companies scrape financial institutions unless they
| provide more secure methods to obtain customer data, and most
| of them do not do this.
|
| So the state of the art to connect to banks... is Selenium with
| stealth modifications.
|
| I own a business which does the same work as Plaid, Intuit, et
| al.
| j-a-a-p wrote:
| I always wondered what staring at the historic values of your
| portfolio will actually help to improve performance.
|
| If you can define some sort of investment strategy, then the tool
| can make you follow it perhaps.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| I have similar information in a spreadsheet (that I am also
| turning into an app), and what it can help with long term is to
| put downturns in the market in perspective and keep you from
| overreacting to them.
|
| When you look at a log chart of your net worth over several
| decades, things like the dot-com bubble and the Great Recession
| look like blips. It makes it easier to look at a bear market
| and think, "this too shall pass".
|
| Of course it also helps you see your progress towards a goal
| and give you information on how long it will likely take to get
| there.
| theogravity wrote:
| Great work on the app. As another comment stated, having to
| import CSVs and spending most of your time editing transactions
| is a huge barrier to adoption. I know most commercial solutions
| offer something like Plaid to interface and import with financial
| institutions, and I have no idea what you can do / use as an
| equiv for a local solution like this.
|
| I personally pay for Rocket Money (they let you decide how much
| you want to pay per month with a min of around $4 / month) and as
| someone who came from Mint, it does an amazing job overall - I
| rarely have to do manual edits (other than assigning appropriate
| categories for certain transactions) and the one thing it lacks
| is Apple Card API import (have to do CSV, but once a month isn't
| bad).
| HackBlade wrote:
| Love the design! If this had automatic importing I would probably
| drop Copilot for this.
| rs999gti wrote:
| > No monetization is planned for now (only a "buy me a coffee" if
| you use and appreciate the app).
|
| A few ideas:
|
| Anonymize and aggregate the data, then sell it off to financial
| and marketing firms.
|
| Add ads to the site.
|
| Charge a subscription fee.
|
| Partner with banks as a white label financial planning tool.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Did you read OP's words?
|
| > I developed this app for my own needs. Getting tired of SaaS
| app subscriptions and privacy concerns.
| jfdjkfdhjds wrote:
| well, it won't concern HIS privacy :)
| xyst wrote:
| > Anonymize and aggregate the data, then sell it off to
| financial and marketing firms.
|
| Horrible. Goes against the privacy oriented aspect of this app.
|
| > Add ads to the site.
|
| Oh great, more useless ads I have to block. Nothing like
| getting a crypto scam ad while viewing your portfolio
| performance. Horrible UX idea.
|
| > Charge a subscription fee.
|
| Yet another SaaS, centralization of data, and betrays the
| privacy oriented aspect
|
| > Partner with banks as a white label financial planning tool.
|
| Likely won't work. Maybe small advisors would buy into it but
| at that level there are a plethora of tools available to them
| with real time aggregation available via Plaid or even old
| school scraping (doubtful in 2024 though).
|
| How about this? Just charge one time fee for major versions of
| the app. Minor and patch versions are free. Keep the privacy
| oriented aspect and local to users machine.
|
| Why must you always use the worst ways to monetize? Treat users
| with respect and you will have life long customers. Not
| everything needs to be a billion dollar unicorn pumped with VC
| funds.
| rs999gti wrote:
| > Why must you always use the worst ways to monetize? Treat
| users with respect and you will have life long customers. Not
| everything needs to be a billion dollar unicorn pumped with
| VC funds.
|
| They aren't the worst ways to monetize, they are just the
| ones that work.
|
| > How about this? Just charge one time fee for major versions
| of the app. Minor and patch versions are free. Keep the
| privacy oriented aspect and local to users machine.
|
| Unless he is charging a substantial and/or recurring amount,
| there is no way he will put up with angry customers and enjoy
| maintaining the software in the long term.
|
| Plus, if this is hosted, hosting is a variable cost that
| always goes up, so his prices for updates will always be
| increasing.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| > Plus, if this is hosted, hosting is a variable cost that
| always goes up,
|
| The site very clearly states that this is a desktop app
| jader201 wrote:
| I feel like there was an implied /s, but I'm guessing the
| downvoters disagree.
| Glyptodon wrote:
| Besides the ability to easily connect with arbitrary bank and
| brokerage accounts to maintain data, another thing somewhat
| lacking in this (general) area is a relatively comprehensive open
| source market data dataset. You can somewhat pull for individual
| stocks, but if you want to do analysis or back test a strategy
| against real data, comprehensive data on even just the S&P 500 is
| lacking.
| Ninjinka wrote:
| I tried importing activity from a Charles Schwab account, and it
| did not work, since they capitalize their field titles. Then
| after fixing that I got "CSV deserialize error: record 1 (line:
| 2, byte: 81): field 4: cannot parse float from empty string" and
| gave up.
|
| Not sure what accounts this is meant to work for.
| xyst wrote:
| I would just switch brokerages. Not just for the csv issue, but
| their platform has taken a shitter since acquiring TDA.
| FractalHQ wrote:
| Are there any you can recommend?
| xyst wrote:
| have had no issues with IBKR since switching last year.
| There was a recent "crash" (the Japanese stock sell off?)
| that caused a massive influx of retail trading and dark
| pool trading. At market open on Monday, SCHW account with
| 401K was not accessible. But IBKR was up and running.
| Ninjinka wrote:
| Dropped my CSV into ChatGPT with the following prompt and the
| output file worked:
|
| ``` Modify this csv to match this format: Follow these steps to
| import your account activities from a CSV file:
|
| Ensure your CSV file is in the correct format. Columns should
| include Date, Symbol, Quantity, Activity Type, Unit Price,
| Currency, and Fee. Click the 'Import' button and select your
| CSV file. Review the imported activities before confirming.
| Supported Activity Types:
|
| BUY SELL DIVIDEND INTEREST DEPOSIT WITHDRAWAL TRANSFER_IN
| TRANSFER_OUT CONVERSION_IN CONVERSION_OUT FEE TAX Example CSV
| format:
|
| date,symbol,quantity,activityType,unitPrice,currency,fee
| 2024-01-01T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,1,DIVIDEND,57.5,USD,0
| 2023-12-15T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,30,BUY,368.6046511627907,USD,0
| 2023-08-11T14:55:30.863Z,$CASH-USD,600.03,DEPOSIT,1,USD,0 ```
|
| Except it couldn't find the symbol `BRK/B`, `BRK.B` or `BRKB`.
| jeffchien wrote:
| I wish this and Ghostfolio supported stock splits.
| lbrito wrote:
| Looks exactly like Wealthsimple; did you use the same graph
| framework or something?
| dmackerman wrote:
| The tickers from my 401k at Vangaurd aren't supported. VFIAX,
| VTIAX. Oh well.
| a-fadil wrote:
| Works for me. If the tickers is in Yahoo Finance, it should be
| supported.
| Batman1337 wrote:
| Can you add Linqto support?
| smsm42 wrote:
| On one hand, this looks like awesome work. On the other hand,
| personally for me I am not sure how it could ever work for me.
| Right now, I have 20+ money/investment accounts from ~10
| different providers and I am tracking it through a provider that
| uses Yodelee (and maybe other methods too?). Importing all the
| statements (which every provider stores in different ways in
| different places) manually would be a pretty big chore. But
| keeping it up-to-date - without which the whole exercise is kinda
| useless - is completely infeasible. That even not getting into
| the question of every provider exporting data in a different
| format...
| thinkloop wrote:
| How do things remain private if the prices of assets, like
| stocks, have to be updated?
| yellowapple wrote:
| It looks nice, but unfortunately Fidelity's CSV exports don't
| seem to be particularly cooperative AFAICT, which limits how much
| I'd be able to use this. Haven't tried my other accounts yet.
|
| It'd be nice if there was an actual standard for this sort of
| thing (incl. an API for automatically retrieving new
| transactions), and if banks and brokerages and such could be
| depended upon to actually use it.
| ryandrake wrote:
| There is a standard, called OFX[1], but support among financial
| institution is spotty, unfortunately.
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange
| TuringNYC wrote:
| >> Fidelity's CSV exports don't seem to be particularly
| cooperative AFAICT
|
| Not to mention, Fidelity's site seems broken over half the
| typical days, especially with products like Basket Trades.
| Baskets broken. No cost basis. No quotes...not even during
| market hours. Insane.
| conradev wrote:
| How does it store data?
|
| If it was "file format first" and used something like Beancount
| or Ledger, I'd absolutely use this. Partly because I already have
| data in Beancount format.
| goodpoint wrote:
| """ Prerequisites
|
| Ensure you have the following installed on your machine:
| Node.js pnpm Rust Tauri
|
| """
|
| Sorry but all these languages and tooling just for a simple
| desktop application is a pass.
| varun_chopra wrote:
| You do realize these prerequisites are steps to _build_ the
| application and that you can download the binary directly,
| right?
|
| Right?
| constantinum wrote:
| Manually adding/importing has always been a hassle for me to get
| into these apps. For the hassle one has to go through to get the
| data in, I would just settle for an excel sheet. Let me how you
| folks are integrating various banks/cards/stock brokers with
| investment apps?
| constantinum wrote:
| Importing CSV might look easy, but banks, at least in the
| country that I live in does not have a standard. One might end
| up spending more time cleaning up the data.
| kmfrk wrote:
| Would love an example dataset to import just to get a sense of
| what it looks like with data. Maybe in an example/ folder or
| directly in the app as a placeholder set. :)
| cube2222 wrote:
| Looks cool! How does it compare with Portfolio Performance[0],
| which is arguably the most popular open-source tool for portfolio
| tracking?
|
| [0]: https://www.portfolio-performance.info/en/
| prashp wrote:
| What framework/language did you use?
| amadeusw wrote:
| GitHub page has a robust writeup of all technologies used [0]
|
| [0] https://github.com/afadil/wealthfolio?tab=readme-ov-
| file#tec...
| tantalor wrote:
| > Ditch the spreadsheets
|
| ... and use this spreadsheet instead?
| bt1a wrote:
| I am currently working on configuring a similar private, open
| source portfolio tracker built on top of ledger (a double-entry
| accounting system). I was drawn to it because of its yml config
| that I can version control easily
|
| If anyone has set up Paisa (successfully or unsuccessfully) and
| has anything to share, I'd love to hear it.
|
| https://paisa.fyi/ https://demo.paisa.fyi/ https://ledger-
| cli.org/
|
| When comparing the two programs here, I can't immediately see any
| big differences. Sorry if this reads like a shallow plug
| maxwelljoslyn wrote:
| I used to use Beancount religiously (before some job and health
| difficulties left me less capable of tracking my finances as
| closely.) My biggest complaint was always that I didn't have
| something like autocomplete/syntax highlighting to cut down on
| the manual-ness of data entry.
|
| Most of the aforementioned difficulties are behind me, and
| Paisa looks like an _awesome_ way to help ease me back into
| Beancount. Thank you! I 'm going to try it out soon!
| floathub wrote:
| There is a beancount mode for Emacs that does a lot of what
| you want, but only really of use if you use Emacs.
|
| https://github.com/beancount/beancount-mode
| taivokasper wrote:
| At a first glance it looks beautiful but very US centric.
| sghiassy wrote:
| Kudos!
| balderdash wrote:
| How does this handle dividends/dividend reinvestment - this is
| typically my biggest gripe with portfolio tracking tools, they
| are really good at telling you how much you have, and not very
| good at telling you how you've done
| corpMaverick wrote:
| A bit OT. Does anybody have any recommendations to consolidate
| monthly expenses with your partner.
| ska wrote:
| I've done this in gnucash, but i don't know if it would be
| worthwhile for just that.
| jjav wrote:
| Parallel to this, are there any good retirement projection
| planning open source tools? Just yesterday I was thinking of
| writing something basic for my needs, but if there is something
| good out there already maybe I don't need to.
| aucisson_masque wrote:
| Such a great tool
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