[HN Gopher] Small asteroid to hit Earth's atmosphere today
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Small asteroid to hit Earth's atmosphere today
        
       Author : dgacmu
       Score  : 168 points
       Date   : 2024-09-04 13:03 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (earthsky.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (earthsky.org)
        
       | koliber wrote:
       | It was discovered 8 hours ago!
       | 
       | I have mixed feelings about this. One the one hand, I'm super
       | excited that we can go from discovery to wide dissemination
       | within a few hours. On the other hand, what's the chance of
       | something like this happening with a much bigger asteroid.
        
         | rogerrogerr wrote:
         | We'd at least see them earlier, because much bigger asteroids
         | are much bigger.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | > On the other hand, what's the chance of something like this
         | happening with a much bigger asteroid.
         | 
         | Lower.
         | 
         | As size increases there are fewer bigger asteroids to begin
         | with, and they are also easier to spot.
        
         | davidcuddeback wrote:
         | > _On the other hand, what 's the chance of something like this
         | happening with a much bigger asteroid._
         | 
         | Bigger asteroids are easier to see.
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | that's right.
           | 
           | another metric that affects the ... impact ... of such an
           | event is also the speed of the asteroid. Unlike size, I
           | suspect higher speeds would make it harder to spot (and once
           | spotted there would be less time to take action)
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | Asteroids are just as visible at any speed.
             | 
             | Though warning times _will_ be shorter the higher the
             | relative speed is.
        
               | bumby wrote:
               | I think the OPs point was:
               | 
               | If we are only surveying a portion of the sky at a time
               | and a faster asteroid spends less time traversing that
               | portion, the likelihood of detection is lower.
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Faster asteroids leave longer streaks.
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | I'm not sure if you are joking.
               | 
               | Assuming you are not. What kind of "streak" you are
               | thinking about? Are you thinking about comets with their
               | tails? Or motion blur?
               | 
               | Because if motion blur I would expect an asteroid on a
               | collision course to have none. (at least in the short
               | timeframe before the collision) Because "Constant
               | bearing, decreasing range" is how a collision looks like
               | from a first person perspective.
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Your last paragraph is correct, but only very close to
               | the collision. Things in orbit around the sun don't move
               | in straight lines, even if their paths are going to
               | intersect. The earlier you see it, the less it's moving
               | straight at you.
               | 
               | (Of course, if it's going to hit you, the faster it's
               | going, the more straight at you its path is at the same
               | distance. But for the same amount of "not straight at
               | you", faster leaves a bigger streak.)
        
               | ithkuil wrote:
               | Yeah given that were talking about objects that are
               | colliding with the earth, the faster they will come
               | closer to us the less time we'll have to spot them
        
         | morning-coffee wrote:
         | > On the other hand, what's the chance of something like this
         | happening with a much bigger asteroid.
         | 
         | The same as it's always been, which is to say you can live your
         | life without worrying about it.
         | 
         | If our technology advances such that we can observe/find more
         | and more of these, that doesn't affect the chances that a
         | particularly sized asteroid hits the earth or not.
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | >> such that we can observe/find more and more of these, that
           | doesn't affect the chances that a particularly sized asteroid
           | hits the earth or not.
           | 
           | Maybe under classical rules, but we know know that the act of
           | observation collapses the range of possible outcomes,
           | potentially locking us into a collision by an asteroid that
           | previously existed only as a probability cloud.
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | That's not how any of this works.
        
             | ivanjermakov wrote:
             | As far as we know, quantum effects do not apply to big
             | space rocks
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | ?? quantum effects apply to everything, but for large
               | objects the expectation is classical
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | Curious use of the double questions marks when the
               | following sentence reveals that seemingly you did
               | understand the point the commenter was making.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | because the claim "quantum effects do not apply to large
               | objects" is not the same as "large objects behave
               | classically in expectation". the former claim is flat
               | false
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | Ya, if your "asteroid" is a subatomic particle in the
             | quantum regime, maybe. But the impact of one such particle,
             | even ultra-high-energy cosmic rays, can be safely ignored.
             | 
             | Everything of asteroid size, or on the Torino Scale [0] is
             | in the realm described by classical mechanical physics, and
             | it will merrily follow it's existing trajectory whether or
             | not we know about it in advance.
             | 
             | So, the only question is whether or not it's better to know
             | it's arriving some hours/days/weeks in advance.
             | 
             | * Certainly better in cases like this (observable but
             | harmless).
             | 
             | * Definitely would be better in cases like the Chelyabinsk
             | meteor [1] which caused a fair amount of damage and some
             | injuries, if people would be given a warning to avoid being
             | near windows, etc.
             | 
             | * Absolutely better in cases of regional devastation to
             | global catastrophe where we have time and resources to
             | alter the trajectory to reduce or eliminate harm. Even just
             | enough lead time to only move many of the people out of the
             | impact damage region is a definite benefit.
             | 
             | * YMMV in cases of in cases of regional devastation to
             | global catastrophe where we lack time and resources to
             | alter the trajectory or move people. Is it better to know
             | you'll die in X hours or be surprised?
             | 
             | So, I'd say everything below Torino-5 is definitely a good
             | discovery (I think this is a Torino-0], and everything
             | above depends on circumstances. Overall, a very good idea.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torino_scale
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor
        
             | whimsicalism wrote:
             | it wouldn't make it more likely and the chance of an
             | asteroid deviating from classical trajectory even by a
             | centimeter is less likely than any event ever observed
             | before
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | Bigger object should reflect more light, making detection more
         | likely.
         | 
         | In very simplified terms, say its roughly spherical, the amount
         | of light grows with the second exponent, so twice bigger object
         | reflect 4 times as much light - but it is also potentially 8
         | times as heavy (eq. volume grows with third exponent) & thus
         | more dangerous.
         | 
         | Trade-offs. :)
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | > Bigger object should reflect more light, making detection
           | more likely.
           | 
           | That assumes that the detection is photon constrained and not
           | "nobody is looking in most directions" constrained.
           | 
           | It doesn't matter even if the asteroid is carrying a lit
           | magnesium torch if nobody is looking for it systematically.
           | 
           | I'm not saying that it is the case. In fact I'm asking: are
           | we photon constrained or are we constrained by the rate we
           | are scanning the sky?
        
             | svachalek wrote:
             | Both, but in practice the coverage of dangerous sized
             | objects is pretty good already and when the Vera Rubin
             | Observatory goes online it will get an order of magnitude
             | better.
        
         | leke wrote:
         | Yep, it could be that one day you go to work and your town gets
         | destroyed before you manage to get home and hug your family
         | goodbye.
        
           | exitb wrote:
           | According to NASA [1], asteroid needs to be larger than 25
           | meters to cause localized damage. It'd need to be larger than
           | 1-2km to cause globally observable consequences.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/asteroid-
           | fast-fa...
        
         | pdonis wrote:
         | _> what 's the chance of something like this happening with a
         | much bigger asteroid._
         | 
         | Negligible. As I noted upthread, objects large enough to be do
         | significant damage if they hit Earth and are on trajectories
         | that could bring them close to Earth are routinely spotted
         | years in advance.
        
       | tommoor wrote:
       | > This is only the ninth time that humankind has discovered an
       | asteroid before it impacts Earth
       | 
       | TIL. It seems like it's basically luck if someone is looking
       | through a telescope in the right place at the right time?
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | Luck has a lot to do with it, sure, but we're (thankfully) a
         | bit more advanced than just hoping someone is looking through a
         | telescope at the right place/time.
         | 
         | NASA's Center for Near Earth Object Studies does a lot of neat
         | work related to this. For example, Sentry [1], the NEOWISE
         | mission [2], etc.
         | 
         | [1] https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/sentry/
         | 
         | [2] https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/neowise
        
           | yourapostasy wrote:
           | Thank you for your useful comment. It sent me down a brief
           | rabbit hole of looking for a grid of amateur telescope owners
           | cooperating for NEO object detection. I found eSTAR for the
           | big boy telescopes [1] [2], but nothing for enthusiasts. I
           | ran across NEO Surveyor that launches in September 2027, will
           | run for 5 years, and is aiming for 90% coverage [3], so I
           | suppose a grid of amateurs contributing telescope time into a
           | software-driven grid and detection system won't be helpful?
           | 
           | [1] https://indico.cern.ch/event/423169/contributions/1890157
           | /at...
           | 
           | [2] https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002SPIE.4845...13S/abs
           | tra...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/near-earth-object-
           | surveyor
        
             | schiffern wrote:
             | You might be interested in the work of Robert Holmes.
             | 
             | https://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/33153-
             | q...
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Holmes_(astronomer)
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWLDvuK_4qU
        
         | sapiogram wrote:
         | Although there's always luck involved, it was discovered by the
         | Catalina Sky Survey, a survey specifically designed to spot
         | near-earth objects.
         | 
         | Their main telescope has a very large field of view (20 square
         | degrees), and takes only 30 seconds per exposure, giving it
         | many chances to get "lucky".
        
           | ck2 wrote:
           | Does anyone know how the 10,000 Starlink satellites and the
           | other 30,000 LEO competitors by the end of the decade are
           | going to affect spotting near-earth objects?
           | 
           | I would have a hard time believing "not at all".
           | 
           | Vaguely related this is my favorite amateur astronomer
           | spotting accident ever, capturing supernova an hour before it
           | happened which hasn't been done before:
           | 
           | https://www.popsci.com/amateur-astronomer-photographs-
           | birth-...
           | 
           | makes me wonder when the sky becomes so difficult to see
           | through if we are going to lose all that enthusiastic effort
        
         | goodcanadian wrote:
         | There are a number of projects dedicated to looking for near
         | earth objects that could impact the earth. Pan-Starrs and Atlas
         | are the ones that come immediately to mind for me, but there
         | are others.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Well yes, but these are only spotted so late because they're so
         | small, which also makes them harmless. Anything that would be
         | large enough to do damage would be also easier to detect
         | sooner.
        
         | pdonis wrote:
         | Not really. What the article fails to tell you is that there
         | have been many, many, many _more_ than nine times that
         | asteroids have been spotted, often years in advance, where the
         | initial data had wide enough error bars to make an Earth impact
         | possible, but continued observation quickly ruled that out and
         | predicted, correctly, that the asteroid would pass near the
         | Earth but miss it. True, those asteroids were quite a bit
         | larger than 1 meter wide, but as the article 's description of
         | the "impact" shows, a 1 meter wide asteroid isn't a real threat
         | anyway.
        
         | dmurray wrote:
         | In sailing and shipping, another vessel is set for a collision
         | course for you if and only if its direction from you doesn't
         | change (assuming both keep constant speed).
         | 
         | Is this roughly the same for orbiting bodies? If so, it would
         | seem that things on a collision course would be harder to
         | detect, as they're indistinguishable from bodies far away that
         | don't move. Possibly orbital mechanics change this
         | significantly, but over the course of a few days the earth's
         | trajectory is pretty much straight.
        
         | dghughes wrote:
         | And it seems to have just barely made it in the asteroid class
         | being >1m if less it would be a meteoroid.
        
         | cscheid wrote:
         | Yes, up until recently. The Vera Rubin observatory will change
         | that quite a bit, and soon. Most observatories and telescopes
         | are currently aimed at deep field (very long exposures of tiny
         | portions of the sky). There are a few surveys meant for
         | transients (supernovae, variables etc) and those are also well
         | suited for near earth objects: look at the Catalina sky survey
         | and the zwicky transient facility. When I was (very mildly)
         | involved, the Vera Rubin observatory expected its first 25% of
         | the mission to be overtaken by observing new near earth
         | objects, even as its mission was to catalog variable stars and
         | spot supernovae and other transients.
         | 
         | Some interesting stories about how these surveys work today and
         | how they will work in ~10 years. Right now, it's so rare to
         | spot a weird thing in the sky that the alarms are all verified
         | by grad students in graveyard shifts. When the new
         | observatories come online, there won't be enough grad students
         | in the world :) so it'll all be ML.
        
       | simmonmt wrote:
       | Thank you for heads up will get my code submitted before world
       | ends.
        
         | firtoz wrote:
         | You need to send the backups towards space, with a trajectory
         | to come back towards Earth when we have restarted civilisation
        
           | zeeZ wrote:
           | Ah, so it was _that_ kind of monolith!
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | You can hear meteors. They hiss as they go by a hundred miles
       | overhead. Which is weird of course. There are theories.
       | Electromagnetic effects and such.
        
         | schiffern wrote:
         | *a hundred kilometers
         | 
         | More info:
         | 
         | https://earthsky.org/space/whoosh-can-you-hear-meteors-strea...
         | 
         | https://www.space.com/35908-meteor-sounds-mystery-solved.htm...
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqXZbrDZrVU
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | "mystery solved". Ho ho. These people gobble a nice story
           | like mommy's pancakes.
        
         | hcarvalhoalves wrote:
         | Last time I witnessed a meteor shower (I guess it was early
         | 2000s or late 90s in Brazil), I swear I could hear it, but it
         | was so faint that wasn't sure if I was imagining the sound.
         | 
         | BTW, I was watching the meteors from the attic, where my dad
         | had a music studio, so lots of transducers around. The radio
         | waves theory from the article would make sense.
        
       | darkest_ruby wrote:
       | As f Philippines is a tiny town and everyone can go out and just
       | watch. Specify exact location!!
        
         | MentallyRetired wrote:
         | The article contains a map with where they think it will scrape
         | the atmosphere
        
         | goodcanadian wrote:
         | The fireball will likely be visible from 100s of kms away.
        
       | nelblu wrote:
       | There's quite a bit of cloud cover and rain, I hope they can see
       | it. https://www.windy.com/17.613/121.733?clouds,14.807,123.827,6
        
       | yawboakye wrote:
       | we have come so far. i vaguely remember a similar-ish
       | discovery/announcement was made in the early 2000s. well, i was
       | too young and too stupid to check the news myself (there was no
       | internet, just tv and newspapers anyways) but i quite remember
       | that respectable town leaders searched for answers in their
       | bibles and qur'ans. strange times they were.
        
       | adrianmonk wrote:
       | Why does the graphic have two streaks and a triangle? I can't
       | figure out where to get more information.
       | 
       | In case it's not clear what I mean, one streak is greenish and
       | the other is yellow/red. The triangle is black and one edge of it
       | is colored red and seems to connect the centers of the streaks.
       | 
       | I'll take an educated guess:
       | 
       | (1) they are two different elevations
       | 
       | (2) they are essentially heatmaps of strike probability elongated
       | because of the earth's rotation
       | 
       | (3) the triangle is a right triangle situated in a plane
       | perpendicular to the earth's surface so that the red line
       | indicates the angle.
       | 
       | It's funny that they'd have a strike location on the surface
       | given that they said it won't hit the surface. But maybe it's a
       | standard way to do the graphic, in which case it represents where
       | it would strike if it were big enough even though it's not.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | It's clearer in the image here:
         | https://x.com/esa/status/1831307613205615044
        
         | tecleandor wrote:
         | I think it's the uncertainty areas. One it's 100km height and
         | the other for 0m. It can be seen better on these links [0] [1].
         | I think it's done this way to show the trajectory.
         | 0: https://x.com/esa/status/1831307613205615044       1:
         | https://x.com/esa/status/1831337534950924348
        
         | JW_00000 wrote:
         | > [T]he coloured regions represent impact probabilities (to 1,
         | 3, and 5 sigma). The red-orange-yellow area shows where the
         | asteroid would reach Earth's surface if there were no
         | atmosphere in the way. > > But there is an atmosphere! So we
         | also mark in green where the asteroid will be when it is at an
         | altitude of 100 km. This is roughly where it will begin to
         | break up and therefore where observers could start seeing a
         | fireball. > > The red line would be the asteroid's trajectory
         | between those two points, if it were still one solid object,
         | which it won't be.
         | 
         | from https://x.com/esaoperations/status/1831349538583445693
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | This is a little depressing, but I just realized if we ever have
       | interplanetary war, we'll just push big space rocks into their
       | orbit.
        
         | cut3 wrote:
         | Future earth wars will have bombardments from space, no need to
         | wait until we are on other planets.
        
         | simmonmt wrote:
         | May I suggest
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(novel_series)
        
           | tway_GdBRwW wrote:
           | Heinlien, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, 1966
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress
           | 
           | The moon colony uses this to win its freedom.
           | 
           | However, The Expanse is also a great book
        
             | vhodges wrote:
             | Related: Footfall and Lucifers Hammer (Both by Niven and
             | Pournelle)
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | Hopefully better than the TV show. Man, that was a terrible
           | ending.
        
             | troyvit wrote:
             | It is better, and yeah for anybody who read the series the
             | ending was especially awful. It's been awhile but I feel
             | like they packed at least one book into the last 2-3
             | episodes of the last season. The book series still has a
             | weird 30 year jump, but you stay there awhile at least.
             | 
             | For the first few seasons of the show I thought they did a
             | good job, even though (or maybe because?) the show departs
             | from the books in a lot of ways. But they tried to cram way
             | too much into the last season and just made it seem like
             | jibberish.
        
         | oaththrowaway wrote:
         | Kind of part of the plot to "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress"
        
         | shepherdjerred wrote:
         | You might like planetary annihilation
         | 
         | https://planetaryannihilation.com/
        
         | FredPret wrote:
         | This is a plot point in the Bobiverse books.
         | 
         | The delta-v required for a heavy asteroid may make it more
         | practical to send a fleet of nukes though.
        
         | jjk166 wrote:
         | If you have the technology to push big space rocks onto a
         | collision course, you have the technology to push big space
         | rocks off a collision course.
        
           | explorigin wrote:
           | As long as you can see them in time.
        
           | stoperaticless wrote:
           | Interception is a different process and usually it is more
           | difficult.
           | 
           | Example of it being different process: bullets are
           | accelerated by gun powder, but stopped by various armor.
           | 
           | Example of increased dificulty: interception rockets have
           | higher demands on speed and agility. (If somebody tries to
           | evade, you have to be faster)
        
         | duckmysick wrote:
         | "The war after the next world war will be fought with sticks
         | and stones" gains a new meaning. What would the sticks be
         | though? Thor rods?
        
       | aziaziazi wrote:
       | > The object is harmless
       | 
       | [impact streak cover some human infrastructures]
       | 
       | I get the odds of landing in someone roof are tiny in this rural
       | area -probably smaller than meeting a grizzly in NYC- however I
       | won't call a grizzly "harmless". Perhaps the panic induced by
       | _not_ calling it harmless would cause more harm.
       | 
       | https://maps.app.goo.gl/1LE4EnzBz13gH3zt5
        
         | dgacmu wrote:
         | I believe - IANAA - that it will entirely burn up in the
         | atmosphere:
         | 
         | https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/asteroids/asteroid-fast-fa...
         | https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/47754/minimum-si...
         | 
         | > Space rocks smaller than about 25 meters (about 82 feet) will
         | most likely burn up as they enter the Earth's atmosphere and
         | cause little or no damage.
         | 
         | (This one is 1m, so it's a pretty good margin.)
        
         | vhcr wrote:
         | The latest tweet confirms it will fall in the ocean.
         | 
         | https://x.com/esa/status/1831337534950924348
        
         | supermatt wrote:
         | Relevant infographic on asteroid threat (from the article):
         | https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2018/06/Asteroid_d...
        
         | JW_00000 wrote:
         | It'll break up and partially burn up, partially turn into
         | smaller meteorites, before hitting the surface of the Earth.
        
       | IanKerr wrote:
       | It's always very impressive to me seeing our ability to detect
       | such obscure objects in advance getting better and better. We'll
       | soon have such good detection capabilities that we may start to
       | take these kinds of predictions for granted the same way we take
       | accurate weather forecasts for granted. Can't wait to see the
       | local meteorologist talking about actual meteors.
        
       | wantsanagent wrote:
       | Astrophysics peeps, why is it that the danger seems to be only
       | tied to the mass of the object. Given p=mv is (relative) speed
       | essentially the same for all of them or otherwise
       | inconsequential?
        
         | NotEvil wrote:
         | Not a astrophysicist but I would guess it's due to atmospheric
         | drag. Higher velocity objects will burn more quickly
        
         | anal_reactor wrote:
         | Not into astrophysics, but I guess "faster asteroids experience
         | higher forces when going through the atmosphere, therefore
         | burning faster". Another explanation could be "most of
         | asteroid's speed comes from Earth's gravity, not from it's
         | initial state".
         | 
         | These are just random guesses though, so I could be completely
         | wrong.
        
         | ddahlen wrote:
         | The range of mass is typically much larger than the range of
         | velocities. There is an upper bound to the speed for the vast
         | majority of things which are dangerous (escape velocity of the
         | solar system). However there are orders of magnitude
         | differences in mass.
         | 
         | Velocity is important though.
        
           | seabass-labrax wrote:
           | Adding a little context for those not familiar with orbital
           | mechanics: the speed of a circular orbit is directly related
           | to its distance from the barycenter (i.e. the Sun). The
           | asteroid belt is between the orbits of Mars (orbiting at
           | 24km/s) and Jupiter (13km/s). Whilst an asteroid that strays
           | far enough to hit Earth (orbiting at 30km/s) is by definition
           | not in an exactly circular orbit, nor one always between Mars
           | and Jupiter, the difference in speeds isn't that great. That
           | accounts for ddahlen's point about the limited range of
           | velocities.
           | 
           | A very rough calculation of mine involving a hypothetical
           | asteroid in a elliptical orbit extending as far as Jupiter
           | and right down to Earth, assuming no difference in orbital
           | inclination to Earth and no significant gravitational
           | perturbations, would result in a relative speed of 5km/s. The
           | actual impact speed would be greater due to Earth's own
           | gravity, adding an extra 11km/s.
           | 
           | Not all asteroids are from the asteroid belt, but I am under
           | the impression that visitors from the outer solar system
           | (which could be as fast as the upper bound that ddahlen
           | mentions) are much more infrequent than stray asteroid belt
           | objects, so the median impact speed would still be relatively
           | slow.
        
           | wantsanagent wrote:
           | Ahh escape velocity hadn't thought of that, thanks. So it
           | would take something like Oumuamua to be much faster?
        
             | ddahlen wrote:
             | We have spotted a grand total of 2 interstellar objects,
             | they were moving faster, but are many orders of magnitude
             | less numerous then the local stuff.
             | 
             | Just doing some back of the envelope calculations, looks
             | like Omuamua was moving about 165,000km/hr (relative to
             | Earth) when it was about at Earths orbital distance.
             | 
             | This speed is not actually a crazy number, it is a lot
             | faster than the majority of things which could hit us, but
             | there are geometries of things in our solar system which
             | can reach these relative velocities. (For example things in
             | retrograde, IE: reverse orbits) can lead to basically
             | escape velocity + earths velocity.
        
         | isk517 wrote:
         | Not astrophysicist but here's a article from the Lunar and
         | Planetary institute about impact speeds from astrological
         | objects https://www.lpi.usra.edu/exploration/training/illustrat
         | ions/....
         | 
         | Looks like there is not a significant amount of variance in
         | asteroid speed so mass would be the biggest deciding factor.
        
         | calfuris wrote:
         | I'm not an astrophysicist, but I was part of a D&D group with
         | one a few years ago and the topic came up (outside the game).
         | In practice the speeds fall into two fairly tight clusters
         | (asteroids and comets), but you don't even need that to justify
         | focusing on mass. There's a hard lower bound on everything, and
         | also a hard upper bound on any object that is part of our solar
         | system, and it works out to at most a factor of 40ish in
         | kinetic energy between the slowest and fastest possible
         | impacts. The masses of objects of interest have a much wider
         | range.
        
         | rznicolet wrote:
         | Everything coming in speeds up when it falls to earth.
         | 
         | Tiny stuff burns up completely in the upper atmosphere, where
         | the pressure is low, because they have low surface area per
         | mass -- the atmosphere can stop them entirely. Their terminal
         | velocity is low. (That is, when the velocity through air is
         | high enough that the drag prevents gravity from speeding up the
         | object any further.)
         | 
         | Medium objects have a higher terminal velocity get deeper into
         | the atmosphere before exploding. Fragments from these (which
         | now have higher surface area per mass) can then be slowed
         | further by the atmosphere and make it to the surface, but not
         | so dramatically. Bits of the Chelyabinsk impactor fall into
         | this category.
         | 
         | Big objects have a high terminal velocity. They make it to the
         | ground largely intact... and without being slowed as much by
         | the atmosphere. That gives you craters and bad days for being a
         | dinosaur.
        
       | ddahlen wrote:
       | I work on the NASA NEO Surveyor project (and have helped out a
       | lot on the WISE/NEOWISE mission, which found a lot of asteroids).
       | I create and run simulations of asteroid detections, which ends
       | up being mostly orbit calculations. In the next few years the
       | rate of detections of these sort of objects are going to go way
       | up, NEO Surveyor and the Vera Rubin LSST telescopes are going to
       | take our current knowledge of the solar system from about 1.4
       | million asteroids to approximately 10x that. It is somewhat
       | difficult to estimate how many we will see, since the size
       | distribution follows a power law, and small changes in our
       | estimates of the slope can be huge changes the number which
       | exist.
       | 
       | There are most likely hundreds of thousands to millions of a few
       | meter sized asteroids flying around the inner solar system.
       | 
       | I did a large chunk of the numerical analysis in this paper:
       | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.12918
       | 
       | I recommend figure 12 to get a sense of how far we can see at any
       | given moment.
       | 
       | The definition which is commonly used as "hazardous" is about a
       | 140m asteroid, which would cause a _significantly_ bad day
       | regionally, but not end civilization. That being said, 50m is
       | still a very very bad day.
       | 
       | These meter-ish size ones usually just make a pretty fireball.
       | 
       | Some various links to data about this impact:
       | 
       | https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/sentry/details.html#?des=2024%20R...
       | 
       | https://minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K24/K24R68.html
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | For anyone else curious who wants some tangible sense of the
         | dangers, the Tunguska impactor is estimated to have been 50-60m
         | in diameter [1]. The impactor that created the Barringer Crater
         | in Arizona is estimated to have been about the same size [2].
         | 
         | Regarding a 100m asteroid impact:
         | 
         | > The pressure blast would destroy buildings up to 9 miles (15
         | km) from ground zero, and windows would shatter more than 60
         | miles away (100 km). To make matters worse, as the partially
         | burned rock hit the ground, it would trigger seismic tremors
         | that would spread through the planet's crust, carrying the
         | destruction further away from the epicenter. The debris ejected
         | into the air by the force of the impact would rain back on the
         | ground miles away from the impact site, and the finer dust and
         | dirt would remain hanging in the air, spreading with the wind
         | across large distances.[3]
         | 
         | I can imagine a 140m asteroid causing a very, very bad day
         | indeed for a region.
         | 
         | Not an expert, just curious and I can type stuff into a search
         | engine.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event
         | 
         | [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Crater
         | 
         | [3] https://www.space.com/asteroid-apocalypse-how-big-can-
         | humani...
        
           | meowster wrote:
           | I wonder, could an asteroid be traveling at a relative-to-
           | Earth speed of very slowly, so that the impact most like just
           | "setting down" on Earth rather than slamming into Earth?
        
             | ianburrell wrote:
             | There is minimum amount of energy from falling down Earth's
             | gravity well. Earth escape velocity is 11 km/s. A big chunk
             | of asteroid energy comes from Earth's gravity.
        
               | seabass-labrax wrote:
               | On the other hand, the orbital speed of Low Earth Orbit
               | is 8km/s. Thus, with regard to asteroid redirection
               | missions, we'd need 'only' about 3-4km/s of Dv to prevent
               | this 'gently setting down' asteroid from hitting the
               | Earth by capturing it into orbit.
               | 
               | Definitely into science fiction territory here
               | considering that DART resulted in a Dv measured in
               | _centimetres_ per second, but I 'm still rather tickled
               | by the idea of collecting a new moon for ourselves :)
        
               | deepsun wrote:
               | If we don't need to capture it to orbit, but just avoid
               | hitting the Earth, centimeters might be enough. The trick
               | is to be able to do it way in advance.
               | 
               | Besides, why LEO? Even GSO is 11 times closer than the
               | Moon.
        
               | seabass-labrax wrote:
               | You're quite right - attaining GSO would indeed require
               | only another 3 or 4km/s. But it does seem a little unfair
               | to put it in GSO; we'd surely want people in both
               | hemispheres to get a chance to gawk at our new satellite!
        
           | deepsun wrote:
           | Taken that most of the Earth surface is empty uninhabited
           | lands and oceans -- no biggie. Most probably.
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | Probably. Usually.
        
         | kristjansson wrote:
         | > 50m is still a very very bad day.
         | 
         | Just to quantify the bad day scale: Tunguska[0] is estimated to
         | have been 50-60m.
         | 
         | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event
        
         | Teever wrote:
         | I recently decided that I wanted to learn more about your
         | field, so I set up a jupyter notebook and was perusing the
         | available python libraries and I found this one[0] however it
         | is apparently unmaintained.
         | 
         | Can you suggest any beginner tools or resources for a layman to
         | learn more about your field? I've taken an intro orbital
         | mechanics course, solar system geology course and one on
         | exoplanet detection and I'd like to keep the kinds of skills
         | that I got from those courses fresh in my brain.
         | 
         | How do you recommend I do that?
         | 
         | https://docs.poliastro.space/en/stable/index.html
        
           | ddahlen wrote:
           | I am in the rather lengthy process of open sourcing a library
           | for orbit propagation, but the previous art which is somewhat
           | modern is the python rebound package. It's original design
           | intent was for asteroid collision simulations, but it has
           | been generalized a lot since then.
           | 
           | Most of the state of the art in the field is algorithms from
           | the 60s/70s, the classic software which many people use are
           | packages like Mercury, written in either fortran or C++.
           | 
           | These factors are why I am attempting to release my code to
           | the (small) community.
        
       | tabtab wrote:
       | Small dinosaurs are very worried.
        
       | steeeeeve wrote:
       | This should be happening right now.
        
       | 0x1ceb00da wrote:
       | Visible from india. Not very prominent but clearly visible.
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | Did you see it?
        
       | FartyMcFarter wrote:
       | This is allegedly a video of the fireball:
       | 
       | https://x.com/raymongdullana/status/1831378111453392958
        
         | felideon wrote:
         | That's quite a larger fireball than I was imagining. If I were
         | in that general area and not given a heads up, I would have
         | certainly freaked out.
        
       | MeteorMarc wrote:
       | Unfortunately, only one of the clips has a long enough duration
       | to hear the start of the sonic booms, soundwaves from the
       | detonations reaching the microphone.
        
       | iJohnDoe wrote:
       | Asteroid 2024 RW1, which was discovered just hours before its
       | atmospheric entry, made a dramatic appearance over the
       | Philippines on September 4, 2024. The asteroid, roughly the size
       | of a small car (about 1 meter in diameter), was detected by the
       | Catalina Sky Survey and was initially designated CAQTDL2 before
       | being named 2024 RW1.
       | 
       | The asteroid entered the atmosphere at a speed of approximately
       | 11 miles per second (around 40,000 miles per hour) and burned up,
       | creating a spectacular green flash visible to observers on the
       | ground. Despite the cloud cover from Typhoon Yagi, the event was
       | still visible and was captured on video by local residents.
       | 
       | This event marks only the ninth recorded instance of an asteroid
       | being detected before it impacted Earth.
        
       | ddahlen wrote:
       | We got enough data to get a rough estimate of its orbit before it
       | hit:
       | https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/tools/sbdb_lookup.html#/?sstr=2024%...
       | 
       | Note though, this will likely have a huge range of uncertainty on
       | it, as 8 hours of observation is not a lot.
        
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       (page generated 2024-09-04 23:01 UTC)