[HN Gopher] A photographer captures life in America's last remai...
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       A photographer captures life in America's last remaining old-growth
       forests
        
       Author : toomuchtodo
       Score  : 120 points
       Date   : 2024-09-03 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | GrumpyNl wrote:
       | Looks a lot like the forest in Nova Scotia, the part thats not
       | effected by lumberjacks.
        
       | ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote:
       | The PNW has an incredible beauty that is hard to describe. I grew
       | up a few miles from Yosemite, so I've had a lot of exposure to
       | wild, natural landscapes, but these old growth rainforests are
       | something else entirely.
       | 
       | That said, I do feel conflicted about this type of forest
       | management. It may work on the Olympic Peninsula where risk of
       | fire is minimal. It does not work in the large forests of
       | California which are tinder-dry and experience very hot summers.
        
       | urda wrote:
       | The PNW has a beauty that is completely unmatched by the rest of
       | the country. It just cannot be beat.
        
         | BenFranklin100 wrote:
         | Americans, as one of my European friends related, live in a
         | beautiful country but don't really appreciate how beautiful it
         | really is.
         | 
         | Btw, I will check your PNW and raise you the Green Mountains in
         | VT and White Mountains in NH during the fall.
        
           | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
           | I drove from North Dakota to Kentucky earlier this summer and
           | was really surprised at how beautiful some parts of Missouri
           | and Southern Illinois are. That's an area I never heard
           | anyone talk about, but I'd like to go on an extended camping
           | trip there in the spring.
        
           | Carrok wrote:
           | > don't really appreciate how beautiful it really is.
           | 
           | Pretty broad statement to make about a country of 300+
           | million people.
           | 
           | Especially in a thread of people appreciating it.
        
           | swasheck wrote:
           | my, admittedly colloquial, observations that nuance your
           | european friend's perspective is that, in general, europeans
           | appreciate the size and environmental and ecological
           | diversity that exists in north america. people from the us
           | who visit europe and rave about its beauty seem to be smitten
           | by european culture (cities, history, architecture).
           | 
           | again, obviously this is colloquial and not everyone will fit
           | neatly into one of those two categories, but as i've traveled
           | around the various continents, that's the _general_ theme i
           | detect in conversations.
        
             | BenFranklin100 wrote:
             | That was exactly my friend's point.
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | > Btw, I will check your PNW and raise you the Green
           | Mountains in VT and White Mountains in NH during the fall.
           | 
           | I've long been unimpressed with the ancient and eroded
           | 'mountains' of the East when set against the tall and
           | imposing Mountains of the West. The Rockies and Cascades just
           | hit different.
        
           | klondike_klive wrote:
           | My partner and I visited a few years ago during the fall when
           | my son was a few months old. It was beautiful, (and I'm
           | partially red-green colour blind so couldn't fully appreciate
           | the leaves' colours.) Coincidentally I recently discovered
           | that an ancestor of mine, great or great-great- grandfather,
           | declared his birthplace as Quechee, VT which we visited and
           | where I proposed to my gf at Quechee Gorge.
        
             | susiecambria wrote:
             | Good on ya for choosing such a lovely spot. I LOVE Quechee
             | Gorge and visited often when I lived in Connecticut and
             | Massachusetts. Now in Virginia, it's way too long a drive.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | This time of the year I'm inclined to agree but come February
         | I'm ready to head south...
        
           | mynameisash wrote:
           | I recognize not everyone likes the rain and gloom, but I do
           | find it interesting and kind of amusing how many of us --
           | myself included -- really love it and thrive in that kind of
           | weather. The 85degF and sunny we had the last few days was
           | really wearing me down.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | Unfortunately there is not much old growth left. A lot of the
         | forest you see in Idaho, Washington, Oregon is too dense to
         | resemble how the forests used to be. The spread of trees was
         | more sparse historically, with bigger and taller trees (whose
         | canopy prevented other growth underneath). It's actually a part
         | of why wildfires are a bigger problem now - dense forests means
         | easier spreading of infestations (which create dry fuel) and
         | also easier spreading of fires.
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | The Hoh rain forest is one of the most beautiful places I've had
       | the chance to visit. Sadly, I had to cut the camping trip short
       | because I am highly allergic to whatever pollen or spores were in
       | the air.
       | 
       | I suspect it was fern spores that I had an allergic reaction to,
       | because I had a similar experience in an area of New South Wales
       | that has a lot of ferns.
       | 
       | It still turned out to be a great trip. We drove up to Seattle,
       | stopped at El Chupacabra, then went out to North Cascades
       | National Park for a couple of days before heading home.
       | 
       | Washington is such a beautiful state with so much diversity in
       | the landscape. I love driving through the state from East to West
       | because you see it all. Even better, I flew from Seattle to
       | Minneapolis once and it was a clear sunny day for the whole trip.
       | The view out the window was breathtaking and seeing the landscape
       | change from forest to desert to forest to prairie and farmland
       | was just the coolest thing. And flying over the mountains and
       | seeing lakes up there all secluded. Beautiful.
        
         | grogenaut wrote:
         | Cedars throw off a ton of pollen. I shook a limb once at UW and
         | it was like tossing a cup of flower in the air. I moved here
         | from the midwest and the cedars get me every year.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | One really notices that old untouched forests are pretty much
       | _impassable_ on foot.
       | 
       | There are no footpaths, the undergrowth is both dense but also
       | strong - we aren't talking stuff you can push aside.
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | That depends on the exact type of forest. The PNW is very wet
         | so fire don't clear the underbrush but in the South West, that
         | growth only has a few decades to build up before its burned
         | away.
        
           | rtkwe wrote:
           | Of course you have to match the management to the local
           | environment, I think that's a pretty well understood concept
           | among the people who do that management these days.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | That is NOT a natural situation in general. Forests in North
         | America normally have regular small fires that clear out that
         | undergrowth. Often the natives would light fires as well every
         | year. However with misguided fire policy those fires have not
         | existed for a long time and now any fire will take out the
         | whole forest.
         | 
         | Each forest is different. The above is a general guideline, but
         | consult a proper forester for information on any particular
         | forest and what the natural state should be!
        
           | rtkwe wrote:
           | There are many parts of the PNW that get enough rain yearly
           | to qualify as a rain forest so naturally fires are going to
           | be pretty rare in those areas. It'll rarely get ~~wet~~ dry
           | enough to burn.
        
             | jesseendahl wrote:
             | You mean rarely _dry_ enough to burn, right?
        
               | rtkwe wrote:
               | (post edit) What ever do you mean? It doesn't look like
               | anything to me...
               | 
               | Of course that's what I meant though.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | You're thinking of forests in California and the rest of the
           | Southwest
           | 
           | Many (most?) PNW forests sit on very deep peatlands. When
           | they burn, it's a catastrophic release of captured carbon
           | like the fires Canada has been experiencing over the last few
           | years. Once those fires start, it becomes a vicious cycle of
           | fire drying out deeper peat which burns the next fire season,
           | sometimes smoldering underground for years before burning
           | out.
        
           | bparsons wrote:
           | Temperate rainforests are different. They have very small
           | spot fires from lightning, but the underlying foliage
           | generally never burns. Fungi does the work of clearing out
           | the dead material.
        
         | magneticnorth wrote:
         | Huh, I had noticed much the opposite.
         | 
         | Second growth forests that have been left untouched for 20 or
         | more years are complete snarls. Young trees are more likely to
         | fall down in a storm, and the open canopy lets in enough sun
         | that you get all kinds of dense undergrowth amid the fallen
         | trees.
         | 
         | But the PNW old growth forests have such a dark tree canopy
         | that not much other than moss and ferns grow below. The 1000+
         | year old trees rarely fall down, so you don't have as much
         | fallen logs, either. It's a pretty incredible experience to
         | walk through a mossy forest of giants like that.
        
         | aziaziazi wrote:
         | Pristine forests in central Africa are the opposite of that.
        
         | patall wrote:
         | Why would there be no footpaths, where do all the deer, moose,
         | foxes, wolves and lynx go? I am always 'surprised' how many
         | such trails exist in any kind of surrounding. Sure, its often
         | difficult to follow, but that's because we are not used to them
         | anymore.
        
         | lacker wrote:
         | That depends on the type of tree.
         | 
         | An old growth redwood forest, for example, will often have
         | large areas with no trees except redwoods. The bottom ten feet
         | of the forest, where you walk around, can be nothing except
         | smooth vertical trunks, with a thick covering of needles on the
         | ground. No undergrowth at all, because the bottom of the forest
         | lives in permanent shade, and the redwoods change the chemical
         | balance of the soil in a way that makes it hard for other
         | plants to grow.
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | There are actually lots of old-growth forests you can visit.
       | 
       | Check out https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/network-forests
        
         | bradford wrote:
         | It's a great site, but I don't think many of the listings could
         | be properly categorized as old-growth. For example, I checked
         | out a few samples:
         | 
         | "The oldest trees are estimated to be over 200 years old."
         | https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/md-schoolhouse-woods
         | 
         | "The age of the oldest trees is not certain, but 100 rings have
         | been counted on a downed loblolly pine and a downed chestnut
         | oak. There is no old-growth forest in this park, however, the
         | strong protections put in place on this forest ensure that it
         | may recover in time." https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/va-james-
         | river-park-system
         | 
         | (The exact definition of old-growth isn't agreed on, but I've
         | seen some foresty documents in the PNW that demand tree age of
         | 400+ years as a prerequisite for the old-growth categorization)
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | I had always thought of an old-growth forest as less defined
           | by the age of the trees, and more by the lack of human
           | management/disturbance. I think of old growth as being in
           | comparison to a second-growth forest, which had been logged
           | and replanted. I'm not a forestry scientist, just cobbling
           | definitions together as I go. But it seems unfair to say you
           | could never have an old growth forest of aspen--a species
           | where individual trees only live about 100 years--if the
           | forest itself had been untouched since the dawn of time.
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | It's not about the age of the individual trees but the
             | overall forest since it was last disturbed by humans (on a
             | large scale like logging or agriculture).
             | 
             | Age matters because there are several "thresholds" during
             | which the diversity of species significantly increases and
             | that starts with the older trees falling and decomposing.
             | The conifers in the PNW take anywhere from 50-150 years to
             | decompose before they start breaking apart and littering
             | the forest floor. Once the first generation of trees is
             | broken up and spread around by the wildlife and the fungi
             | species are fully established, the growth of
             | third/fourth/fifth generation of trees and plants become a
             | lot more vigorous. When the second and third generation of
             | trees start falling, they end up creating the dense
             | habitats that supports large food webs from the rodents on
             | up. All the while, the tree roots pull nutrients from
             | deeper and deeper in the earth, allowing the rain and cold
             | to build up a layer of peat on the forest floor that cycles
             | and stores the nutrients, improving the quality of the
             | dirt.
             | 
             | It just takes a while for all these processes to build up.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | The east and southeast don't have many ultra-long-lived tree
           | species, outside of cypresses [0].
           | 
           | I think most oaks top out ~100 years and pines ~200. Not as
           | much slow-growth, live-forever stuff.
           | 
           | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum
        
             | aziaziazi wrote:
             | Oaks easily go to 500y, sometimes up to 1000!
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | I suppose they are the exception tho since 500 year old
               | oaks are likely to be famous. Airlie Oak in Wilmington NC
               | is one I know of.
               | 
               | https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/2009/06/13/airl
               | ie-...
        
               | aziaziazi wrote:
               | Right! I guess they are exceptions because we cut them
               | before eldery, not because biological reasons. Cows older
               | than 4yo are an exception because we slaughter most of
               | them before but they could live 5 times more.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Is that true?
               | 
               | I thought super-long-lived trees tended to have special
               | biological optimizations to persist over centuries.
               | 
               | E.g. https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley
               | /sec6.ht...
        
       | Diederich wrote:
       | Last night, just before full darkness, I was walking through the
       | woods around our home in rural western Washington state and quite
       | suddenly I'm looking at a surprised black bear. It was perhaps 4
       | meters away and immediately stood up and started huffing. I
       | shouted at it and calmly walked away.
       | 
       | We don't live in a true old-growth forest, but it's pretty close.
       | There are definitely many hundred year old trees.
       | 
       | We manage our five acres very, very minimally, and we're actively
       | re-foresting most of the ~1ac of yards that were mowed prior to
       | us moving here in 2020.
       | 
       | As another commenter said, this is the most beautiful natural
       | environment I've ever seen, and we're extremely grateful that
       | this has become our forever home.
        
         | marapuru wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing this encounter and for re-foresting the
         | land.
        
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