[HN Gopher] Analysis of Greek prehistoric combat in full body ar...
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Analysis of Greek prehistoric combat in full body armour
Author : bryanrasmussen
Score : 41 points
Date : 2024-08-30 14:09 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (journals.plos.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (journals.plos.org)
| slibhb wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendra_panoply
| Vecr wrote:
| The armor has very good coverage (better than modern military
| armor except bomb suits), but personally I wouldn't call armor
| "full body" unless it also covers the arms, legs, and at least
| some of the tops of the feet, plus of course a more complete
| full head helmet.
| adrian_b wrote:
| What is shown in the photo is probably not the complete
| armor, because that Wikipedia page also mentions greaves and
| arm guards.
| swagasaurus-rex wrote:
| Leg and foot armor was often times unnecessary in bronze age
| combat.
|
| Spears are meant to keep the enemy at a distance. Aiming for
| the foot would require some reaching, putting you in
| significant danger of counter attack. Armies lined up in row
| and each man covered the man to his right so reaching in
| battle would be a risky maneuver.
|
| As for protection against arrows only requires a thin layer
| of armor to deflect, and that armor is best located above the
| knee since arrows come from above. Alexander's phalanx did
| not utilize foot or leg protection except for the most
| prestigious officers. Their thin shields were wide enough to
| cover their body, and it was noted that a phalanx with their
| spears raised, could scatter a volley of arrows along the
| spear shafts.
|
| Keep in mind all of this equipment needs to be packed and
| marched long distances, in the summer heat since armies did
| not campaign in the winter due to challenges with
| provisioning a sizable armies in wintertime. The wealthy
| elite could have baggage trains to carry superfluous
| equipment, but the bulk of any army marched on their own two
| legs and carried everything they went to war with on their
| backs.
| throwawayffffas wrote:
| There are a lot of assumptions about how this armor was
| used in this comment.
|
| It's worth mentioning, that the armor was found with an arm
| guard, greaves, two swords, no spearheads and no shield.
|
| Additionally this is from 1500 BC. If you have a guy in
| phalanx wearing this in mind, you are probably wrong.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| I only skimmed the article. Is the high 'collar' shown here
| supposed to be a realistic replica?:
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
|
| It looks much higher than a medieval bevor and very impractical.
| You wouldn't be able to see much of attacks to your torso or
| legs.
| icegreentea2 wrote:
| Yes, it's supposed to be a realistic replica (see sibling link
| to the "Dendra panolpy).
|
| Another previous discussion on this subject (links to Ars
| article referencing/based on the linked paper):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40522939
|
| The apparent "impractically" of the armor is one of the very
| reasons it's being tested. I think the apparent reduction in
| visibility is probably being exaggerated in some of the
| pictures that they've chosen to use. In addition, since a lot
| of the fighting would be with spears, I'd assume there would
| often be enough distance that the high visor wouldn't obstruct
| too much relevant vision.
| hosh wrote:
| It is probably compensated by the shield and the heavier torso
| armor. Attacks to legs (depending upon height differences)
| reduces the measure unless the attacker squat and thrust
| without leaning forward.
|
| Big shields also have similar issues with visibility. They can
| protect you, but they also cut visibility.
| epilys wrote:
| Closeup photo of the collar/neck part:
|
| https://www.ancientworldmagazine.com/site/assets/files/2766/...
| poulpy123 wrote:
| I will be the pedant one, but is it prehistoric if the armor is
| more recent than writing ?
| poulpy123 wrote:
| after checking wikipedia, history in greece starts after the
| bronze age
| drcode wrote:
| Bronze age Greece has known writing in linear B, which we can
| decipher, we just don't have that much of it
| throwawayffffas wrote:
| The armor is from the 15th century bc. The first attested
| linear b finding is from the 14th century bc. So the armor
| is prehistoric.
| mkoubaa wrote:
| For anyone like me that wanted to see the mentioned computational
| model, it is here:
| https://figshare.com/articles/software/Late_Bronze_Age_Warri...
| jvanderbot wrote:
| If you'd like more information on how you'd fight in this armor,
| I believe a Sarissa phalanx was common for helenistic greece.
|
| https://acoup.blog/2024/01/19/collections-phalanxs-twilight-...
|
| If you aren't familiar with acoup.blog, highly highly
| recommended.
| robotomir wrote:
| I am sorry for jumping on this opportunity to be a smartass,
| but this type of armor predates the sarissa phalanx by almost
| 1000 years.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Well I stand happily corrected then!
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(page generated 2024-09-02 23:01 UTC)