[HN Gopher] Las Vegas police could boycott working NFL games ove...
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       Las Vegas police could boycott working NFL games over new facial ID
       policy
        
       Author : oneseven
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2024-08-31 19:13 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reviewjournal.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reviewjournal.com)
        
       | jarsin wrote:
       | Interesting concern given all of our pictures were already sold
       | by META to every data broker on the planet..
        
         | codedokode wrote:
         | Not everyone's but only of those who uploaded them.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Nope. If someone uploaded a picture with you in it and tagged
           | your name, they have you too.
        
         | 121789 wrote:
         | They don't sell data, they just collect it to target relevant
         | ads. If you can find an instance of them (or Google) actually
         | selling data to brokers, please share
        
           | jarsin wrote:
           | Brave ai summary:
           | 
           | Facebook's Facial Recognition Data Collection and Potential
           | Sales to Third Parties in Texas
           | 
           | Based on the provided search results, here are the key
           | findings:
           | 
           | In 2022, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton sued Meta
           | Platforms, Facebook's parent company, alleging that it
           | collected facial recognition data without users' consent,
           | violating Texas state law.
           | 
           | The lawsuit claimed that Facebook repeatedly captured and
           | commercialized biometric data in photos and videos for over a
           | decade without informed consent, sharing the data with third
           | parties and failing to destroy it in a reasonable timeframe.
           | 
           | The state alleged that Facebook's actions put Texans' well-
           | being, safety, and security at risk, and sought damages of
           | "billions of dollars."
           | 
           | In 2024, Meta agreed to a $1.4 billion settlement in the
           | biometric data lawsuit, related to the unauthorized use of
           | personal biometric data from uploaded photos and videos on
           | Facebook.
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | Meta and Google want to retain their data moat to maximize
         | their ad premiums over competitors. They really do not want to
         | sell any data.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Google is handing real time location data, browsing
           | histories, etc to 3rd parties while not technically selling
           | it. Ex: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/google-says-it-
           | doesnt-...
        
       | elmerfud wrote:
       | This kind of biometric security is getting a bit ridiculous. It
       | would be different if it was done in a secure way and by that I
       | mean secure in the sense that the person who provides the
       | biometric data you had the ability to secure it wherever it went.
       | This could absolutely be done but the reason it's not is
       | companies totally want to gather this data from people and then
       | sell it to other companies for machine learning and other
       | purposes. Same with our government that wants to gather this kind
       | of data.
       | 
       | It would be quite straightforward to make your biometric identity
       | a public private key kind of setup. Companies have access to your
       | public key and you yourself carry your private key as some sort
       | of physical identification that is unlocked with a two-factor
       | method. This way any physical biometric thing is done on a device
       | you own that could be mandated to be open technology completely
       | auditable to be secure and all you do is use your physical doodad
       | to interface with their thing to authenticate that yes you are
       | the private key holder for this given public key.
       | 
       | It would be much more secure than identification cards that we
       | have now such as driver's licenses or passports. It would also be
       | far more secure than the biometric style authentication they want
       | to do now with them essentially owning a copy of your biometric
       | data. But there is no profitability in true security and privacy
       | for the citizens.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | The Apple and Google pushes for digital IDs are basically that,
         | but support is limited at best since it's depending on 50+
         | different local governments to get up to speed on all this tech
         | stuff.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | Worth remembering the US Army built a biometric database of
         | Afghan officials (police officers included) and they lost
         | control of it to the Taliban. They sold it as a "for your own
         | safety", and now it's a kill list.
         | 
         | https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/taliban-afghanistan-biome...
         | ( _" Taliban likely to have access to biometric databases of
         | Afghan civilians who helped US"_ (2021))
         | 
         | - _" The biometrics initiative was initially tested in 2002.
         | Its goals then were to prevent criminals and Taliban insurgents
         | from infiltrating the Afghan army and police force[...]"_
         | 
         | - _" The Taliban may also be using the Afghan government's
         | biometric-based ID card known as the Tazkira to track and
         | target people, Ramanjit Singh Chima, Asia Pacific Policy
         | Director at Access Now, told news agency Reuters."_
         | 
         | - _" Particularly at risk are individuals in central positions
         | in the Afghan military, police and investigative units."_
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | It doesn't matter if it is Napoleon, Hitler or who ever.
           | Asking about winter boots and blankets is a no go. Plan for
           | the plan.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | > It would be quite straightforward to make your biometric
         | identity a public private key kind of setup.
         | 
         | There is no repudiation, attestation or key rotation in this
         | setup, with all the attendant problems that creates.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | you can always save up for plastic surgery!
        
             | akira2501 wrote:
             | "In response to this data breach we are offering you free
             | Experian plastic surgery services for the next year."
        
         | dfox wrote:
         | The main issue there is that the mantra something you know,
         | something you own, something you are is completely wrong in the
         | authentication context. The issue there is that the biometric
         | "something you are" cannot be revoked and also depends on the
         | relying system having some kind of secure path to whatever
         | sensor measured it. So in the end as an authentication it is
         | only useful as convenience feature (eg. how TouchID/FaceID
         | works on Apple platforms). Identification is another thing and
         | obviously biometrics are useful there, but well, there are not
         | that many ethical uses for system that does identification
         | without authentication.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | > It would be quite straightforward to make your biometric
         | identity a public private key kind of setup.
         | 
         | How would that work? Maybe the biometric part acts as a domain
         | name from which the public key might be downloaded? Who is the
         | custodian of face-public key pairs?
        
         | lucaspfeifer wrote:
         | Seems like the key issue here is this: what is the purpose of
         | conducting the authentication? In the case of personal
         | accounts, it's for the benefit of the individual. They get
         | their own account to safely store personal data. Here, the
         | individual management of biometric authentication devices, as
         | you described, is a great thing. A passkey can be generated
         | without exposing biometric data. The individual has the
         | responsibility and incentive to keep their devices secure.
         | 
         | But the above article is an example of the opposite case, where
         | the authentication is for public security. In this situation,
         | the individual cannot be entrusted with their own auth, so if
         | each person were to use their own device, it would need to be
         | quite tamper-proof. Seems far simpler at this point to do face
         | / fingerprint auth, where the security guard ensures that no
         | one is wearing a mask or fake finger. Yes, there is the concern
         | that the bio-data could be stolen / misused, and for that
         | reason I think that bio-auth for public safety should be
         | limited to a single standard type (e.g. face), with the others
         | being reserved only for private auth. That way, a compromise
         | can be reached between public safety and individual privacy.
        
       | codedokode wrote:
       | Don't be naive. Today they require photos from cops, tomorrow
       | from fans.
        
         | xnyan wrote:
         | AI is already being used to keep out fans they don't want, they
         | don't need them to submit photos or give permission[1]. In
         | addition to being a vastly smaller and harder to replace group
         | than fans, police are also far more organized than fans. That's
         | the only reason they are being asked.
         | 
         | [1]:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-
         | square-g...
        
         | HillRat wrote:
         | This is the same police union that's argued that releasing the
         | names of police formally accused of misconduct is a privacy
         | violation, their concern for privacy does not extend further
         | than the ranks of their union and certainly not to the broader
         | citizenry.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | They already have facial recognition entry at events in some
         | cities like Seattle. It's dystopian seeing everyone accept it
         | without question.
        
       | Spooky23 wrote:
       | They are probably more annoyed that it will be harder to pull off
       | no-show or low-show details.
       | 
       | These are usually pretty sweet overtime or moonlighting gigs, and
       | where there's a sweet gig for cops, there's always an asshole or
       | two ready to milk it.
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | The title confused me because here in Germany the police are
       | civil servants and they generally don't have a right to strike or
       | just choose not to do their job as they're an executive organ of
       | the state but apparently here the police is just.. side hustling?
       | 
       |  _" conversations with officers "making them very well aware of
       | what they're agreeing to." But the decision may come down to what
       | individual officers are comfortable with, Grammas said. Overtime
       | security work is not mandatory for officers, but voluntary."_
       | 
       | Maybe it's a cultural thing but blurring the line between an
       | officer in their public capacity and what is basically private
       | security at a sports event should be two separate things. Hiring
       | the police out as a private security force where they then get to
       | negotiate what rules they have to play by has a Judge Dredd vibe
       | to it
        
         | lokar wrote:
         | Often at large private events the city will require a certain
         | number of police, that the host must hire. And they can only
         | hire from local departments that have worked out these deals
         | letting officers do this on their own time, but in uniform.
         | 
         | It's weird, and often sort of extortion
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | yeah, this is super common here in the US. Off-duty cops are in
         | demand as security guards and they can work in uniform, which
         | to me is all kinds of weird. You can literally "rent a cop" (an
         | expression used as a joke about mall security guards who are
         | typically not cops at all) this way, complete with full police
         | powers.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > Hiring the police out as a private security force where they
         | then get to negotiate what rules they have to play by has a
         | Judge Dredd vibe to it
         | 
         | The work is voluntary overtime work.
         | 
         | They're not forced to accept voluntary overtime work. It's an
         | optional thing they can choose to do above and beyond their
         | base job, if the pay and terms are interesting enough.
         | 
         | I don't see why it's a problem. What are the alternatives?
         | Forcing police to do security for private events inside of
         | private venues as part of their job?
        
           | PeterisP wrote:
           | It should be impossible to negotiate this with individual
           | policemen - if the state or municipality has the requirement
           | and authority to provide security for something, then the
           | conditions for that should be handled by the government (and
           | then the officials would execute that as part of their
           | ordinary non-negotiable orders of what duties their service
           | requires), and if the government does not do that thing, then
           | police officers should not be involved at all, this should be
           | handled by private security, in which case even if someone
           | from police participates off-duty, they shouldn't be
           | permitted to have uniforms/badges/official authority, as they
           | are not there as representatives of the state but as
           | civilians.
           | 
           | There shouldn't be any middle ground - either the government
           | sends the police to do whatever the government requires, or
           | it does not - the policemen themselves should not get a
           | choice, they exist to execute and enforce the government
           | decisions, not make them.
        
           | jltsiren wrote:
           | The way it works in Finland:
           | 
           | Police officers are public officials. As such, they do not
           | have the right to have a second job or a side business by
           | default. They may apply for a permit for a specific job, and
           | it is usually approved if there are no obvious conflicts of
           | interest or other reasons that could compromise their
           | impartiality. Some jobs, such as private security, are
           | automatically out of question.
           | 
           | If your event needs security, you hire private security.
           | Police officers may have been involved in training the
           | security personnel, but they can't work in the field. And if
           | a uniformed police officer shows up at the event, it almost
           | always means something has gone wrong.
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | Have private security work the private event. Send a token
           | number of police along, at the city's expense (the same
           | number they'd normally assign to an area with 50,000 people
           | out and about, so the sports event isn't sucking
           | disproportionate resources).
           | 
           | If the stadium is such a hotbed of crime and disorder that
           | private security can't handle it and they really need to
           | escalate constantly to involve armed law enforcement, stop
           | allowing it to host games at all.
        
       | enricotr wrote:
       | This site asks permission to send data to more than 160 servers.
       | To read an article.
        
       | susiecambria wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/QdyLy
        
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       (page generated 2024-08-31 23:01 UTC)