[HN Gopher] Rediscovering the Small Web (2020)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Rediscovering the Small Web (2020)
        
       Author : colinprince
       Score  : 220 points
       Date   : 2024-08-31 03:56 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (neustadt.fr)
 (TXT) w3m dump (neustadt.fr)
        
       | roschdal wrote:
       | The web was so much more fun in the 90s.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | Fun parts of the web still exist today, they're just struggling
         | to be noticed. Arguably the biggest change since then is in
         | signal to noise ratio.
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | And the algorithms we live by.
           | 
           | Google does not easily surface those websites. Social
           | networks suppress posts with links.
        
           | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
           | The problem is that most of the interesting content I'm
           | interested is posted in the not-so-fun parts of the web, so I
           | feel forced to participate.
        
           | CalRobert wrote:
           | A lot of the good stuff got sucked in to walled gardens.
           | People's personal home pages or tacky MySpace pages were
           | definitely more fun than the current semiprofessional content
           | scroll. Forums like this very one were mostly subsumed in to
           | Reddit. Nevermind the death of the bbs (not actually the
           | internet I realise)
        
       | tropicalfruit wrote:
       | mobile devices, app-ification and the social media that really
       | started to kill the small web, kind of ironically.
       | 
       | and if you're a front end developer it was apple launching the
       | meta viewport tag in 2007 killed the simple front end.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | "Today is September 11323, 1993"
        
       | nils-m-holm wrote:
       | Here's my contribution to the small web: http://t3x.org
        
         | sylware wrote:
         | Careful, if you show noscript/basic (x)html does a good enough
         | job, you will get attacked by big tech shadow-paid hackers (or
         | idiotic ones), that to force you to use their javascripted
         | grotesquely massive and complex web-engines.
         | 
         | ...
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | I also dislike the skinner box that is today's web, but do
           | you really think it's somebody's job to attack you for having
           | your site be a document?
        
             | sylware wrote:
             | Well, maybe not a static document, but as soon as you have
             | some basic HTML forms doing a good enough job, I would not
             | be surprised to it gets attacked by big tech shadow-paid
             | hackers (or idiotic ones) to push forward their massive and
             | complex javascripted web engines which they have control
             | over.
             | 
             | Look at whom the crime is a benefit in the end.
        
               | NackerHughes wrote:
               | What? This can easily be averted by adding a captcha to
               | the form (server-side validation so no JS needed) and/or
               | some sort of rate limiter or firewall, e.g. blocking any
               | IP address that sends too many requests too quickly.
        
         | felixyz wrote:
         | Wow, I remember discovering your page in the late 90s. Never
         | thought I'd find it again!
        
           | nils-m-holm wrote:
           | Being found is the greatest problem that small web sites have
           | these days. Glad you found it again! :)
        
         | pkphilip wrote:
         | This is such an useful set of links! thank you!
        
           | nils-m-holm wrote:
           | Pretty much everything that is linked to is also on T3X.ORG.
           | :)
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | Hey man I'm into meditation too. Nice to meet you.
        
       | thehappyfellow wrote:
       | One of the best internet experiences I had in a while is reading
       | (and writing!) posts on bearblog.dev, check out their discover
       | feed. Wholesome place.
       | 
       | In similar spirit, check out https://ooh.directory
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | If I'm excused for self-promoting, I've also made some tools
         | for discovery:
         | 
         | e.g.
         | 
         | https://search.marginalia.nu/explore/random
         | 
         | https://search.marginalia.nu/site/t3x.org?view=info
        
           | 8organicbits wrote:
           | Here's another self-promotion.
           | 
           | https://alexsci.com/rss-blogroll-network/
           | 
           | This uses OPML blogrolls to crawl blog-to-blog
           | recommendations. I seeded it with the blogs I follow and
           | various planets (https://indieweb.org/planet) and then
           | recursively followed recommendations to build an organic
           | network. Lots of the content is tech-related, indieweb, and
           | smallweb. It's grown to 17 languages and over 4000 RSS/atom
           | feeds.
           | 
           | As an example, the linked blog has a page here [1] and it was
           | discovered by a recommendation by [2].
           | 
           | [1] https://alexsci.com/rss-blogroll-
           | network/discover/feed-12ac5...
           | 
           | [2] https://alexsci.com/rss-blogroll-
           | network/discover/feed-8ecf9...
        
             | freediver wrote:
             | This is cool!
             | 
             | Is the aggregate list supposed to update regularly?
             | 
             | https://alexsci.com/rss-blogroll-network/rss.xml
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | I just tried using google to search for sites I see in
         | ooh.directory, and it's very hard to get them to surface. I can
         | take exact specific phrases from them, like "Scaling a Digital
         | Panel Voltmeter" and without quotes neither Google nor Bing
         | will find the site, and with quotes, only Bing finds the site:
         | (https://zzncx.top/posts/scaling-a-digital-panel-voltmeter/)
         | 
         | Personal blogs with real information just can't be found
         | anymore.
        
           | smetj wrote:
           | Excellent point made
        
           | 8organicbits wrote:
           | Marginalia, mentioned in sibling comment, does exactly what
           | you're looking for, I'm seeing the site as the top result
           | without using quotes:
           | 
           | https://search.marginalia.nu/search?query=Scaling+a+Digital+.
           | ..
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | It's kinda hit and miss with regards to these types of
             | queries.
             | 
             | I've got better phrase matching in the pipe though, give it
             | a few weeks and it should do this even better.
        
         | Cosi1125 wrote:
         | The Reddit thread [1] in which the author introduces Bearblog
         | explains the sorry state of today's Internet a bit. "What's the
         | point of blogging if I can't track users and harvest their
         | email addresses?"
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/Blogging/comments/i8fmuc/%CA%95%E1%...
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | For me, the point of my pointless blogging is to sell dozens
           | of books across the world with my words in them. That way, I
           | feel like I've achieved immortality. No joke.
        
       | Kovah wrote:
       | If anyone also misses StumbleUpon, there's something similar:
       | https://cloudhiker.net
        
       | mjfl wrote:
       | In the same spirit, here is a site devoted to getting off the
       | centralized platforms:
       | 
       | https://landchad.net/
        
         | sanjumsanthosh wrote:
         | Wow this looks clean !
        
         | janandonly wrote:
         | Wonderful collection of how-to's to run your own server. Thanks
         | for sharing.
         | 
         | Might I suggest (in the interest of privacy) that you give
         | donators the option to use a Silent Payment address instead of
         | a naked BYC address? I noticed you have a Monero address as
         | well, so I assume you care about privacy
        
       | janandonly wrote:
       | This is now the 7th time someone shares this link on HN. It must
       | be worth a read
        
       | raytopia wrote:
       | I feel like the internet needs a giant directory of indie
       | websites. So you can actually surf around and find them.
       | 
       | The big modern search engines almost have to be intentionally
       | hiding these websites because they're nearly impossible to find
       | without using an alternative engine like wiby.me or
       | search.marginalia.nu.
        
         | ramses0 wrote:
         | I was just going to post a comment similar to this. We've swung
         | towards walled gardens of piles of content instead of graphs of
         | individually curated links.
         | 
         | Exactly that "surfing" or "webring" or "stumbleupon" style of
         | actually browsing in a larger content rather than searching or
         | push-promote within that pile of content.
        
         | dartos wrote:
         | I don't think Google hides small sites as much as people are
         | really good at SEO for Google specifically.
         | 
         | Like my blog has literally 0 SEO and you'll never find it, but
         | a friend of mine has a blog where he does not post very often,
         | but spends a lot of effort on SEO and it's very easy to run
         | into his blog.
         | 
         | The SEO meta destroyed small blogs.
        
           | marginalia_nu wrote:
           | It's impossible to say this is something they do, but it's
           | worth noting that Google also has an economic incentive to
           | mostly show commercial/ad-ridden results, as leading users to
           | blogs with no adsense on them make them less money; so it
           | would at least be in their interest to let the search results
           | look like they do.
           | 
           | To fully understand Google you need to look at them not as a
           | service that brings websites to people, but directs people to
           | websites.
        
             | leephillips wrote:
             | "we expect that advertising funded search engines will be
             | inherently biased towards the advertisers and away from the
             | needs of the consumers."
             | 
             | -- Sergey Brin and Larry Page
             | 
             | http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-advertising-and-
             | search-e...
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | Appendix A in this paper is a gem as well:
               | 
               | http://infolab.stanford.edu/pub/papers/google.pdf
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | Contains the quote above and "The goals of the
               | advertising business model do not always correspond to
               | providing quality search to users."
               | 
               | So what we observe in the deterioration of Google search
               | was predicted by its creators, who made the deliberate
               | decision to let this happen by accepting advertising.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | Google went public in 2004, after that I don't think any
               | amount of founder idealism could have saved it from
               | shareholder pressure. If anything it's remarkable they
               | held out as long as they did.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | It's so unfortunate that no one inside Google is taking
               | any decision to clearly make things worse. It's simply
               | the structure of their business that is fundamentally
               | wrong, and their founders had correctly identified the
               | problem right at the start.
        
         | makeworld wrote:
         | https://ooh.directory/
        
       | freediver wrote:
       | Our contribution to the small web: https://kagi.com/smallweb
       | 
       | The site and list of blogs is open source, growing steadily by
       | about 10 each day (almost at 15,000 at this point).
       | 
       | Every recent post from sites in Kagi Small Web is indexed and
       | given preference in Kagi Search results.
       | 
       | How it works: https://blog.kagi.com/small-web
       | 
       | edit: The project just had its one thousandth commit!
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | It's StumbleUpon without the spam problem. I like it.
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | https://wiby.me/ is also excellent. Someone else linked it
         | elsewhere in the thread but worth riding the coat tails of the
         | top post for anyone interested.
        
         | philistine wrote:
         | I know the friction to add websites is the point, but might I
         | recommend a way to add our own websites without having to
         | promote two others. My rinkydink website qualifies, but all the
         | other small websites I know are all already on the list.
        
       | Jordan_Pelt wrote:
       | Thank you for this. It has inspired me to delete my Reddit
       | account and create an HN account. This gives me hope that the web
       | can survive the social media era.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | Well this is social media too. Beware of shifting complexities!
        
       | rambambram wrote:
       | My list of shared links is here:
       | https://www.heyhomepage.com/?module=timeline&view=sharedlist
       | 
       | It's basically all the sites and feeds I follow daily with the
       | Hey Homepage built-in RSS reader. You can browse the list and
       | click around, or download it as an OPML file.
       | 
       | RSS = Really Social Sites; OPML = Other People's Meaningful Links
        
       | xenodium wrote:
       | My contribution to the small web is a lightweight blogging
       | platform: https://lmno.lol My blog is at https://lmno.lol/alvaro
       | 
       | You can drag and drop your entire blog from a single markdown
       | file https://indieweb.social/@xenodium/112265481282475542
       | 
       | You can read the blogs from anywhere, even terminal (no JS
       | needed).
       | 
       | No need to sign up or log in to try it out. I haven't officially
       | launched, but if you'd like to start blogging now, I'll be happy
       | to share an invite code.
        
       | r85804306610 wrote:
       | i've been publishing things as html2 pages, but not
       | interconnected in any way. so each page (or sometimes group of
       | pages) will be dedicated to an exploration of a single subject. i
       | then send those pages to people who i think might be interested
       | in them. that's all, they otherwise don't see the greater
       | internet. of course people are free to add them to link
       | aggregators, etc. but i don't police this practice. i simply
       | don't care for my output to be consumed by general public, or by
       | llms, or by corporate media, or by whomever who is not my friend
       | or in my immediate immediate circle of friends
        
       | kaeruct wrote:
       | One site in this vein that I hope never goes away is
       | https://rpgclassics.com/
       | 
       | I discovered it as a young lad lost when playing some RPGs on
       | emulators in the early 2000s
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | Seems like a small web deserves a small client. Why use a "big
       | web" client to read the small web. "Big web" clients are funded
       | by advertising or advertising companies.
       | 
       | Bias disclosure: I have used a text-only client for the last 30
       | years.
        
       | AstroJetson wrote:
       | There was a push during Covid on Gemini pages. I did that for
       | awhile, but the lack of real formatting and not being able to
       | cross link articles became a stopper.
       | 
       | You can see get to some of them here
       | 
       | Collaborative Directory of Geminispace: gemini://cdg.thegonz.net/
       | 
       | But you need a Gemini reader
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-31 23:01 UTC)