[HN Gopher] Cox (was) bragging about listening to user mics
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       Cox (was) bragging about listening to user mics
        
       Author : lowestdecks
       Score  : 12 points
       Date   : 2024-08-30 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.techdirt.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.techdirt.com)
        
       | lowestdecks wrote:
       | I share the author's skepticism that Cox would have ever been
       | capable of this. Especially not at the scale that was claimed in
       | the deleted B2B marketing materials.
       | 
       | While there are reasonable concerns over access to microphones in
       | various devices found in consumer's households, especially cheap
       | IoT devices (although, I'm EXTREMELY about claims that any agent
       | is listening to unfettered microphone access on smartphones,
       | given the restrictions that have been put in place to get access
       | to microphones), I don't believe that a limited scale (compared
       | to any big tech) cable company could have the engineering chops
       | to pull this off.
       | 
       | Things that would be required: * getting this system to work with
       | an exceptionally large variety of devices from nearly as many
       | brands. * having nation-state quality malware to get access to
       | the microphones on many of these devices (either from the
       | manufacturer not wanting to work with them or not incentivized to
       | work with them) * battery powered devices not facing user-
       | noticeable power draw (think a Dualshock controller) * having
       | advanced enough AI (bigger issue 2 years ago than it would be
       | now) at a very large scale filtering out noise and categorizing
       | conversations such that they are useful to advertising partners
       | (probably possible now with the vectorization techniques in LLMs)
       | * having the AI be cost effective at that scale without local
       | processing (unlikely to locally process on the devices themselves
       | due to processing power limits; unlikely to locally process on
       | their modems because cables modems are made as cheap as possible
       | to offer the services that they are selling, without a FLOP
       | more); this is a much bigger roadblock than the advanced enough
       | AI * actually hiring talented enough engineers to accomplish
       | these things (especially the AI)
       | 
       | And frankly, they are such a small player in the grand-scheme of
       | things, they would be idiotic to not also be selling this tech to
       | every cableco/telco in a developed nation, in order to get their
       | money's worth. This would be 'discuss it at the shareholder
       | meeting' important if that much money was spent and they wanted
       | to get their value out of it, since they are otherwise limited to
       | where they can physically roll out Cox cable.
       | 
       | Frankly, a bunch of marketing hot air (that they've since
       | removed).
        
         | howard941 wrote:
         | You're getting too far into the weeds with the IOT and
         | smartphones. TFA talks about mics in the cable boxes and smart
         | tvs. I wouldn't put it past them to monitor mics in cable
         | boxes.
        
       | TillE wrote:
       | This really just reads like an idiot misunderstanding and/or
       | bullshitting about what might be theoretically possible, but
       | isn't actually happening.
        
       | HocusLocus wrote:
       | MICS without physical disable switches that actually short input
       | to ground through a resistor (open circuits can leak) are always
       | a problem. It's more of a "Darwin in action" issue because during
       | a critical period that people could have demanded this real and
       | effective solution (the 1990s and early 2000s) they didn't seem
       | to care.
       | 
       | Then laptops took off as primary computers and people were no
       | longer installing their own peripherals any more, and demanded no
       | external circuit-interrupting switches not even for cameras.
       | 
       | Back in the 1990s I was telling people, your plain speakers are
       | not safe either (from being used as listening devices) as long as
       | they do not have their own amps and are driven directly by a chip
       | in the computer. How much do you know about that chipset and who
       | makes it? One of the major early chipset players was Realtek.
       | 
       | Then some Ben Guriron researchers burst onto the scene in 2016 (
       | https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/woot17/woot17... )
       | with a real proof of concept where they used a jack assignment
       | matrix in (you guessed it, a Realtek chip) to turn an idle pair
       | of headphones into a listening device.
       | 
       | I'd be interested to hear anyone who heard the other shoe drop. I
       | don't doubt that an internal assignment matrix facility exists in
       | many modern chipsets. It would take a concerted and deliberate
       | effort to mitigate this kind of vulnerability. Has anything like
       | this been done?
        
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       (page generated 2024-08-30 23:01 UTC)