[HN Gopher] Blood puddles, mold, tainted meat, bugs: Boar's Head...
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       Blood puddles, mold, tainted meat, bugs: Boar's Head inspections
       are horrifying
        
       Author : speckx
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2024-08-30 19:56 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _For instance, on June 10, an inspector entered the "pickle vat
       | pump room" and noted "heavy meat buildup" on the walls, which
       | were also crawling with flies and gnats._
       | 
       | I haven't seen much upside from going vegetarian, but at least I
       | don't have to worry about accidentally eating food from a place
       | like the above.
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | They also do cheese (vegetarian, no animal rennet), various
         | sauces, pickles...
        
         | beloch wrote:
         | They scrape the floors at places like this to make blood meal
         | (i.e. organic fertlizer).
        
         | kjksf wrote:
         | > According to the CDC, one significant outbreak in 2020 was
         | linked to onions, resulting in around 1,127 reported cases of
         | Salmonella across 48 states.
         | 
         | Vegetables can also be contaminated with bad bacteria and they
         | do get contaminated in practice.
         | 
         | There are plenty outbreaks caused by contaminated salads and
         | other vegetables.
        
         | MathMonkeyMan wrote:
         | The meat buildup I can deal with, but the flies are such a
         | nuisance.
        
         | cyberax wrote:
         | The most dangerous product in a typical kitchen is lettuce. Bon
         | appetit.
        
         | AndrewKemendo wrote:
         | The consistency of widespread foodborne illnesses coming from
         | vegetables is unmatched
         | 
         | Your horror is an artifact of the industrialization of food
         | production not the fact of meat at a food
         | 
         | These insane practices aren't happening with pastoral nomadic
         | herders or even pasture raised farms in the US
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | Do you like potatoes and strawberries? Welp. One of the
         | pesticides California's green lit is also used to stimulate
         | tumor growth in animals. Presumably not much is left on the
         | food itself (although strawberries make great chemical
         | sponges), but Dichloropropene is definitely a problem in the
         | communities surrounding the farms.
         | 
         | Like cheap wine? Things haven't gotten much better from
         | Chavez's days especially if you look at the cheaper brands like
         | Charles Shaw. Plenty of young, dead, farm workers because
         | safety standards are barely enforced.
         | 
         | Are you just worried about pathogens? Cantaloupes were the main
         | vector in the 2011 listeria outbreak in the US and 2018
         | listeria outbreak in Australia, and a salmonella outbreak this
         | year in the US. The 2008 salmonella outbreak in the US was the
         | largest since the 80s, and that was spread by cilantro and
         | peppers.
         | 
         | 2009 saw a big salmonella outbreak in the US spread by peanut
         | products. If you're worried about unsanitary factory
         | conditions, you probably don't want to read up on that.
         | 
         | Big ag is _gross_ whether it 's plant or animal.
        
       | sandspar wrote:
       | It sounds horrifying but it's hard to tell how much more
       | horrifying it is than the average meat processing plant. They're
       | big, complex, dirty facilities at the best of times. I've never
       | seen the inside of a meat processing plant. Presumably the
       | journalist hasn't either. The situation is bad, yes (69
       | violations in a year). But I don't know exactly how bad. Overall
       | I'm thankful for the guys who work in these places so that the
       | rest of us can keep our eyes averted from death.
        
         | CharlieDigital wrote:
         | > Overall I'm thankful for the guys who work in these places so
         | that the rest of us can keep our eyes averted from death.
         | 
         | _That 's_ what your focused on? Not the contamination and
         | listeria?                   > The situation is bad, yes (69
         | violations in a year). But I don't know exactly how bad.
         | 
         | 9 people dead so far. So yeah, it's bad.
         | 
         | https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/death-toll-now-8-lis...
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I caught the subtext as "how bad those violations were in
           | relation to the industry" and don't think anyone has cast any
           | doubt on how bad a listeria outbreak is.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | No. Food production is clean, must be clean, and if it is not
         | clean it is not just incompetence it is criminal.
         | 
         | The inspectors and regulatory agencies failed to do their jobs
         | and people died.
        
           | throwway120385 wrote:
           | What about the actual packer? Why do we not hold them
           | responsible here too? It's all well and good to blame the
           | USDA but they're a check on the packer. It seems like Boar's
           | Head has a cavalier attitude toward product safety that was
           | bound to get a bunch of people killed sooner or later. I
           | realize that this is the norm in these facilities so why do
           | we do nothing to actually regulate them? And why is the focus
           | on how the USDA isn't doing it's job? Clearly the problems
           | are being identified but the actual regulations have no
           | teeth.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > It sounds horrifying but it's hard to tell how much more
         | horrifying it is than the average meat processing plant.
         | They're big, complex, dirty facilities at the best of times.
         | I've never seen the inside of a meat processing plant.
         | 
         | How do you say that they're big, complex, dirty facilities at
         | the best of times, then immediately say you haven't ever seen
         | inside one?
         | 
         | > Presumably the journalist hasn't either.
         | 
         | Why would you presume this? Do you presume the inspectors
         | aren't familiar with meat processing either?
         | 
         | > Overall I'm thankful for the guys who work in these places so
         | that the rest of us can keep our eyes averted from death.
         | 
         | Just random praise for the company that is getting busted for
         | horrific health violations. Do you have any praise for the
         | facilities that aren't crawling with vermin and filth?
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | He said he's thankful for "the guys who work in these
           | plants", which is not the same thing as being thankful for
           | the companies that operate them or their policies. Being
           | thankful for rank-and-file meat processing employees doesn't
           | seem like a crazy sentiment. It's a very tough job.
        
       | m4tthumphrey wrote:
       | Man, I love being a vegetarian.
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | listeria spreads thrives/spreads through sprouts and melons,
         | among other foods including milk and meats.
        
       | mrbonner wrote:
       | We can go back to read the Jungle by Upton now. Something never
       | changes.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | I mean, The Jungle is fiction.
        
           | kasey_junk wrote:
           | Sort of
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | It's like The Wire of meat packing.
        
               | kasey_junk wrote:
               | Where's Ona, Phil? Where's Ona?
        
       | BuckYeah wrote:
       | Ha! The age old vegetarian/vegan joke is too real
        
       | hanniabu wrote:
       | Can't say I'm surprised given the company
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | I'm sure it's bad, but the article isn't providing (unless I
       | missed it) the crucial bit of information needed to evaluate this
       | story, which is how these inspection results depart from the
       | norm, which may also frequently be gnarly (agriculture is gnarly
       | and gets gnarlier as it scales), but has not repeatedly generated
       | listeria outbreaks.
        
         | throwway120385 wrote:
         | We shouldn't necessarily focus on the norm but rather on what
         | we would like to see in these facilities to ensure the safety
         | of the people consuming these products. One of the stories my
         | wife's OB told her about consuming uncooked lunch meat was
         | about a case where a pregnant woman ate some lunch meat that
         | was contaminated with listeria, and the resulting infection was
         | so severe that some of her limbs had to be amputated. So we
         | probably shouldn't tolerate this norm.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | So that might be true --- is almost certainly true --- but
           | that's an argument you'd ideally be making from the full set
           | of facts (or independent of the facts, as an ideal). It's not
           | an evaluation of the journalism or analysis itself, which
           | deserves, for its own reasons, to be taken seriously.
        
           | jncfhnb wrote:
           | Pregnant women are immune compromised and should be avoiding
           | lunch meat
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Can always cook it. Listeria is very sensitive to heat (and
             | doesn't produce toxins that cooking doesn't protect you
             | from).
        
         | hansvm wrote:
         | All the small-scale meat packers (not a representative sample)
         | I've purchased from were sterile before they closed before the
         | day and not very untidy during the process. We've kept a
         | similar attitude ourselves when butchering deer, cows, pigs,
         | moose, .... It's just not that hard to keep things clean.
         | 
         | A single fly getting in isn't the end of the world, but an
         | environment with a lot of flies indicates something horribly
         | wrong (no protection from the outside, or maggots and an
         | environment inside otherwise conducive to the production of
         | flies).
         | 
         | You're right that it gets gnarlier as it scales, but as it
         | scales you can also afford to build rooms designed to be
         | pressure-washed without moving the equipment. It's even cheaper
         | and easier per unit of meat to wash a room that way than to
         | hand-wash the damned thing.
         | 
         | Maybe that's the norm, and maybe the listeria outbreak is for
         | other reasons, but the conditions described are bad regardless
         | of how commonplace they are or how much they contributed to
         | those deaths.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | Absolutely. I would strongly prefer sterile meat processing
           | facilities with rigorous HACCP plans. I'm also aware though
           | that meat processing has consolidated pretty dramatically
           | over the last 20 years, to the point where most meat sourced
           | from Illinois livestock is processed in a single plant.
           | 
           | Two important things I think I'd want to know:
           | 
           | * How variable the mapping is from these kinds of inspection
           | results to pathogen outbreaks in packaged product
           | 
           | * How common these kinds of inspection results are industry-
           | wide
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | Let's not forget the constant E. coli and Salmonella cases of
       | food poisoning on veggies, so, vegans, please, don't even start
       | this! As an omnivore, I've always stayed off Boar's Head, because
       | they were questionable even 20 years ago, when I first saw there
       | stuff at Persian stores in Orange County, California!
        
         | ProfessorLayton wrote:
         | I mean I'm not trying to flamebate but isn't e. coli still
         | connected to meat from the manure used to fertilize plants?
        
       | beloch wrote:
       | "We are conducting an extensive investigation, working closely
       | with the USDA and government regulatory agencies, as well as with
       | the industry's leading food safety experts, to determine how our
       | liverwurst produced at our Jarratt, Virginia facility was
       | adulterated and to prevent it from happening again..."
       | 
       | It's pretty clear the failure was with management. They didn't
       | enforce basic standards of cleanliness. If the whole company
       | isn't shut down, their facilities should be inspected
       | _frequently_ to ensure they are compliant with health
       | regulations.
        
         | VHRanger wrote:
         | I mean, the violations should result in some form of shutting
         | down the facility until it's resolved.
         | 
         | Without consequences, all those inspections do nothing
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | As mentioned in TFA, the Boars Head Virginia plant has been
           | shut down since the inspection issues in July.
           | 
           | It's crazy there aren't at least annual inspections of food
           | production facilities which would have unearthed the
           | disgusting lack of care sooner. They market themselves as a
           | premium brand, which makes this look even worse.
        
       | grugagag wrote:
       | I've seen once how commercial cold cuts are being produced. I
       | never want to try those again, it's absolutley nauseating.
        
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       (page generated 2024-08-30 23:00 UTC)