[HN Gopher] Brazil blocks Starlink bank accounts
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Brazil blocks Starlink bank accounts
Author : edpichler
Score : 28 points
Date : 2024-08-29 18:22 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.msn.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.msn.com)
| ImJamal wrote:
| Am I understanding this correctly? The judge didn't like what X
| did (or didn't do) so he is making moves against StarLink, which
| would allow users to potentially bypass the censorship this judge
| is pushing for.
| barryrandall wrote:
| As I understand it, X was fined, didn't pay, and the judge
| pierced a few corporate veils to discover that Starlink and X
| share a majority owner.
| prepend wrote:
| He had to pierce veils to figure that out? Couldn't he just
| check Wikipedia like everyone else?
|
| Is this legal in the US?
|
| If company A owns B and C; and C does something bad, can A or
| B be fined?
| hwc wrote:
| that's the idea of "limited liability". it has a lot of
| downsides in practice.
| rlpb wrote:
| "Piercing the corporate veil" isn't about discovering
| something that is a secret. It's a legal principle.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil
|
| > Is this legal in the US?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil#U
| n...
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Starlink and X share a majority owner_
|
| Musk doesn't own a majority of Starlink or SpaceX. (SpaceX
| owns Starlink. SpaceX is controlled by Musk. But he owns less
| than 50% of the shares.)
| notfish wrote:
| Musk owns 79% of voting shares of spacex (but yes, only 42%
| of equity). I guess it depends on your definition of
| "owns", but its not unreasonable to say he owns spacex.
| xinayder wrote:
| It's not a question whether the judge disliked what X did or
| not. They were subpoenaed to block the accounts engaged in
| anti-democratic speech. Failing to do so, X would have to pay a
| 2k USD daily fine until they cooperated.
|
| X decided to challenge, Moraes raised the fine to 20k USD
| daily, they continued defying the order, until they closed the
| company thinking this is a legal way to circumvent the debt
| they owe to the state.
|
| Moraes found out that there are links between Starlink and X
| (Musk), so he decided to go after Starlink instead, blocking
| their bank accounts until X pays what they owe to the Brazilian
| state.
| pfannkuchen wrote:
| Isn't Brazil like notoriously light on rule of law? I don't feel
| surprised or outraged by this, more like-- what did you expect?
| protastus wrote:
| Alternative take: what would you expect by consistently and
| publicly antagonizing a supreme court justice?
| blackhawkC17 wrote:
| Blocking Starlink (SpaceX) accounts to pay for X fines, despite
| them being two separate companies?
|
| I forgot it's Brazil, a very corrupt country where the rule of
| law is an afterthought. They'll keep wondering why many investors
| shun Brazil and Latin America at large, making the region much
| poorer than their counterparts.
| mikedelfino wrote:
| > the rule of law is an afterthought
|
| Are you implying that, given all your knowledge of Brazilian
| law, implicating Starlink to pay for X fines is against the
| law?
| dalmo3 wrote:
| Rule of law doesn't mean written law. A written law can be
| against the rule of law. Conversely, something might not be
| against the law but violate the rule of law.
|
| > "the mechanism, process, institution, practice, or norm
| that supports the equality of all citizens before the law,
| secures a nonarbitrary form of government, and more generally
| prevents the arbitrary use of power."
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law
| mikedelfino wrote:
| Doesn't that quote support the judge's position, though? X
| is being treated just like all other citizens. The page you
| linked also states "no one is above the law," so I'm
| sincerely not sure who we're talking about here.
| anon291 wrote:
| Considering the original requirement for twitter to remain
| active in Brazil was a human rights violation.... this too is
| a human rights violation. Speech ought to be free.
| mikedelfino wrote:
| Are you referring to the speech that the judge ordered to
| be taken down? I don't know the details, but it seems the
| request was related to alleged anti-democratic remarks. I'm
| not familiar with Brazilian law, but I believe that some
| countries impose restrictions on free speech. Regardless of
| what was said, it's not uncommon to comply with the judge's
| order first and then challenge it in court until it can be
| published again.
| xinayder wrote:
| Anti-democratic speech like asking for a military
| intervention is a federal crime in Brazil.
| xinayder wrote:
| Some of the accounts asked to be blocked might not have
| been committing crimes but ones asking for storming the
| congress, federal intervention and overturning a
| democratically elected president and questioning the
| electoral process are defined as anti-democratic acts,
| which are a criminal offense.
|
| So if the original requirement is just putting Musk in his
| place thinking he's untouchable in his ivory tower is
| actually following the law in the country is a human rights
| violation... Then the EU is the most human rights violating
| group of countries in the world.
| anon291 wrote:
| The EU does routinely violate human rights as there is no
| free speech anywhere in the EU. People are regularly
| jailed in Europe for blasphemy, upsetting people, 'hate'
| speech, etc. The EU has never been a solid proponent of
| human rights. There's a reason the American revolution
| happened (And is arguably more needed than ever)
|
| > storming the congress, federal intervention and
| overturning a democratically elected president and
| questioning the electoral process are defined as anti-
| democratic acts, which are a criminal offense.
|
| Democracy is not synonymous with human rights.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| Starlink is widely used in deforestation and mining in Brazil.
| Elon Musk personally flew to Brazil to promote it (with
| Balsenero?), despite the predictions that Starlink would be used
| that way. The political pitch was that schools in the far reaches
| would use it - that has measurably failed to materialize.
| Meanwhile, Federal raids on gold mining operations show Starlink
| transceivers routinely.
|
| source: Brazilian activist report
| blackhawkC17 wrote:
| The issue is not Starlink. It's that the Brazilian government
| is too inept and corrupt to tackle illegal mining in its
| backyard. Many countries have huge landmasses (US, Canada,
| China, etc.), yet no one gets away with something as brash as
| illegal mining.
| prepend wrote:
| Chainsaws are used as well. And fossil fuels. And electricity.
|
| I'm sure if the Feds raid gold mining they'll find some copper
| wires and other infrastructure.
| dyauspitr wrote:
| Ah the why ban guns since knives can kill people too
| argument.
| alden5 wrote:
| that's not a source, could you link the report?
| Qem wrote:
| https://www.brasildefato.com.br/2024/05/15/find-out-how-
| ille...
| xinayder wrote:
| and if someone questions this is a leftist website:
| https://fortune.com/2023/03/15/elon-musk-starlink-brazil-
| ama...
| tacker2000 wrote:
| Bolsonaro
| anon291 wrote:
| Brazil under its new administration is quickly becoming
| everything claimed the previous administration was going to be.
| stuaxo wrote:
| What are the lumps on his face in that picture?
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe]
|
| Some more discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41392962
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(page generated 2024-08-29 23:01 UTC)