[HN Gopher] 100M Token Context Windows
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       100M Token Context Windows
        
       Author : gklitt
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2024-08-29 17:32 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (magic.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (magic.dev)
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | It should be benchmarked against something like RULER[1]
       | 
       | 1: https://github.com/hsiehjackson/RULER (RULER: What's the Real
       | Context Size of Your Long-Context Language Models)
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | > To incorporate this, we ask the model to complete a chain of
         | hashes instead (as recently proposed by RULER):
         | 
         | They did mention it but didn't provide concrete benchmarks
        
       | samber wrote:
       | Based on Mamba ?
        
       | shazami wrote:
       | FYI wouldn't interview here. Got rejected after a 30 minute
       | behavioral screen after spending 8 hours on an unpaid take-home.
        
       | dinobones wrote:
       | Long context windows are IMO, "AGI enough."
       | 
       | 100M context window means it can probably store everything you've
       | ever told it for years.
       | 
       | Couple this with multimodal capabilities, like a robot encoding
       | vision and audio into tokens, you can get autonomous assistants
       | than learn your house/habits/chores really quickly.
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | Has anyone measured the performance of very large context
         | windows like this vs a good RAG that you also constantly update
         | and curate?
         | 
         | At least with other very large context windows like for example
         | Claude offers a RAG is still very much preferable as it avoids
         | confusion and collisions with information in the context that
         | isn't correct or relevant.
         | 
         | Sure you can also prune the context window and for many
         | existing models you also need to do that (I often use an LLM to
         | summarize a context to keep it going) but doing it with a RAG
         | seems to still be much easier. This especially holds true of
         | you use good knowledge management techniques to structure your
         | RAG so your retrievals are optimized.
         | 
         | P.S. on a side note how confident are we that these very large
         | context window models are not just a RAG in disguise? As the
         | models which boast very large windows are at least for now all
         | locked behind API access only.
        
         | jokethrowaway wrote:
         | Context window size is not the limiting factor. How well will
         | it be able to use that information is the problem.
         | 
         | Even GPT and Claude make glaring mistakes with short prompts.
        
       | Sakos wrote:
       | I was wondering how they could afford 8000 H100's, but I guess I
       | accidentally skipped over this part:
       | 
       | > We've raised a total of $465M, including a recent investment of
       | $320 million from new investors Eric Schmidt, Jane Street,
       | Sequoia, Atlassian, among others, and existing investors Nat
       | Friedman & Daniel Gross, Elad Gil, and CapitalG.
       | 
       | Yeah, I guess that'd do it. Who are these people and how'd they
       | convince them to invest that much?
        
         | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
         | For those names (access to $billions), curious how much due
         | diligence they do any more. Just make a "chump change"
         | investment in every hot trend? One phony AI startup pitch deck
         | will look identical (if not better) to one with a real edge.
        
         | IHLayman wrote:
         | Assume around $3/hr per H100 (pretty generous pricing for GCP),
         | that is $2250/month-gpu, or for their fleet of 8000 comes to
         | $18MM/month or around $216MM/year in just compute costs alone,
         | not looking at SSD, bucket storage, or egress. At their initial
         | investment of 465-320=$145MM that means they can't have
         | operated that cluster for longer than 6ish months without their
         | funds running dry or the got massive discounts somewhere.
         | 
         | Something doesn't add up here.
        
           | Sakos wrote:
           | Honestly, the more I look at this the more I'm mystified.
           | Magic was founded in 2022 and they received their first
           | funding round of $20 million a year later. Before that, the
           | co-founder/CEO had founded some climate science education
           | program called ClimateScience which he ran for 2 years:
           | 
           | > Then, it hit them. They thought, "What if we create bite-
           | sized information, following the same scientific standards of
           | peer-reviewed journals, to empower people to solve climate
           | change?"
           | 
           | > Together, they started combing through climate science
           | articles and turning them into social-media friendly content
           | under the name ClimateScience. After two short months,
           | ClimateScience went viral and grew to 40,000 followers on
           | Instagram. People started sending in private messages, asking
           | how they could help. A team of curious, kind and passionate
           | people quickly grew, all dedicated to making climate
           | education more understandable for everyone.
           | 
           | > Just a few years later, ClimateScience has grown into the
           | world's biggest climate education platform! We create
           | educational courses, videos, resources and tools to improve
           | climate understanding and education. It's all completely free
           | and just a few clicks away on any device.
           | 
           | According to LinkedIn, they have 50-200 employees. Is that
           | plausible? How many of those are actually FTEs? Where is
           | their revenue coming from if it's all completely free?
           | Looking at the team page, this feels off, like it's a bunch
           | of university students padding their CV.
           | 
           | That was after dropping out of university, 1 year into a
           | bachelor's in computer science. During which he apparently
           | had a 5 month contract at Facebook AI where he "lead the
           | development of 'DREAM', an algorithm that's 100x more data-
           | efficient and trains faster than the previous state-of-the-
           | art in model-free multi-agent Deep RL. Paper:
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.10410".
           | 
           | How does this lead to Magic.dev and third-parties investing
           | $500 million? Either this guy is a prodigy or this is the
           | next Theranos.
           | 
           | edit: I looked into the other co-founder just now and I feel
           | like I'm in the twilight zone.
        
       | fsndz wrote:
       | Context windows are becoming larger and larger, and I anticipate
       | more research focusing on this trend. Could this signal the
       | eventual demise of RAG? Only time will tell. I recently
       | experimented with RAG and the limitations are often surprising
       | (https://www.lycee.ai/blog/rag-fastapi-postgresql-pgvector). I
       | wonder if we will see some of the same limitations for long
       | context LLM. In context learning is probably a form of semantic /
       | lexical cues based arithmetic.
        
       | htrp wrote:
       | does anyone have a detailed tech breakdown of these guys? not
       | quite sure how their LTM architecture works.
        
         | why_only_15 wrote:
         | They're not saying
        
           | 1024core wrote:
           | These days the competition is so fierce that everyone's
           | clammed up.
        
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