[HN Gopher] Show HN: A discovery-focused search engine for Hacke...
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       Show HN: A discovery-focused search engine for Hacker News
        
       We (Nick, Dens, Denzell, Fede, Drew, Aaryan, and Daniel) have been
       building HN Discovery, a discovery-focused search engine for Hacker
       News, in our spare time for the past 6 months and are excited to
       show it! It adds the following features relative to the existing
       keyword search interface and preserves the existing ones:  - no-JS
       version (hnnojs.trieve.ai)  - site:{required_site} and
       site:{negated-site} filters  - public analytics  - LLM generated
       query suggestions based on random stories  - recommendations  -
       dense vector semantic search  - SPLADE fulltext search  - RAG AI
       chat  - order by descendant count  client code (FOSS self-hostable)
       - https://github.com/devflowinc/trieve-hn-discovery  engine code
       (BSL source-available) - https://github.com/devflowinc/trieve
       There is an extended about page with detailed information on
       features, how much it costs to run, etc. here -
       https://hn.trieve.ai/about.
        
       Author : skeptrune
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2024-08-29 17:08 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hn.trieve.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hn.trieve.ai)
        
       | ghoomketu wrote:
       | This is impressive! I've frequently encountered challenges with
       | Algolia search not locating specific items, but this appears to
       | offer a much more detailed search capability.
       | 
       | I've bookmarked this site and hope it remains available when I
       | need it, unlike many great Show HN posts that vanish after six
       | months or so.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Glad you found it useful! Fulltext search will almost certainly
         | be up in perpetuity, however, we may drop the semantic index if
         | it doesn't get much usage as that's significantly more
         | expensive to host.
        
       | dewey wrote:
       | > $6835.39/month
       | 
       | This seems way higher than I expected. Cloud pricing is out of
       | control when Postgres is already > $500 for a small instance that
       | could be run for a fraction if it wouldn't be a cloud provider.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Pretty sure we will have to co-locate soon in general. Cloud
         | provider costs are near unsustainable for our business at
         | least.
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | I'm willing to bet that I can reduce your costs by at least
           | 10x. I'd go so far as to say this thing should be able to
           | handle HN front page traffic at < $300 / month, including all
           | real-time vector search.
           | 
           | That is, if this 6k number is actually true. Part of me
           | (forgive me) is in fact wondering if maybe this is an
           | advertisement for your SaaS and you're inflating this number
           | to make people think there's no way they can build a thing
           | like that themselves. But, giving you the benefit of doubt,
           | if you are truly paying this, you're overspending by more
           | than an order of magnitude. Most likely too many middlemen.
           | 
           | Email is in my profile if you want to talk about it.
        
             | skeptrune wrote:
             | It is 100% not made up to make our SaaS more attractive.
             | Our shared SaaS only goes up to 1M vectors, so it's not
             | like it's cheaper anyways. We would currently charge the
             | raw cost + ~20% for us to host something at HN scale.
             | Almost none of the cost is due to serving the traffic; it's
             | all just rented high mem compute instances and GPUs. We
             | could serve ~1k QPS on the current infra.
             | 
             | Our terraform and helm are public in the repo - https://git
             | hub.com/devflowinc/trieve/tree/main/terraform/gcl...
        
       | Ishaank1999 wrote:
       | the quality of the search is really good! really useful to see
       | how opinions change over time on HN (try typing in 'rust is').
        
       | shiandow wrote:
       | Oh thanks! I had one heck of a difficult time trying to find the
       | author and title of 'the glass bead game' by Herman Hesse. It's
       | pretty hard to find with simple keyword based search.
       | 
       | Though short comments seemed to score a bit too highly IMHO. It
       | took a while to find a query that found the long rambly comment I
       | needed.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | We spent quite a bit of time trying to make length
         | normalization better, but there's still a lot of room for
         | improvement. The default behavior was super biased towards
         | longer rambly comments and we may have over-corrected. I
         | appreciate the note.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | Congrats on building and shipping! I love how "at home" the
       | styling feels.
       | 
       | I searched for `Excel` since that's a topic I care about and tend
       | to follow frequently.
       | 
       | The first ("most relevant") link is a post with 1 point and 0
       | comments from 2020. The second link has 1 comment and 2 points,
       | from 2017.
       | 
       | The top two links on Algolia's search have about 1000 points each
       | and are way more topical.
       | 
       | I tried to hit "Back" to make this comment, and saw the site
       | broke my browser's navigation. I was forced to right click on
       | "Back" (or spam the back button) to get back here... so not a
       | great experience, overall
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | - the version without search as you type and JS at
         | https://hnnojs.trieve.ai/ has a more normal back button
         | 
         | - Algolia ranks by points by default while we are ranking by
         | relevance score which is the difference. You can order our
         | results by points if you want to with the order by select
         | component that says "relevance".
         | 
         | We went back and forth on making points sorting default and
         | ended up deciding against it, but maybe we should have. Our
         | thinking was that since it's focused on "discovery" it was
         | worth prioritizing relevance, but I can see how it can feel the
         | result quality isn't as great. HN is really good at
         | highlighting interesting links.
         | 
         | Best fix would have been LTR, but we made incorrect decisions
         | early on which made the rewrite a bit too hard -
         | https://trieve.ai/launching-trieve-hn-discovery/#relevance-q...
        
       | vercantez wrote:
       | This is impressively fast. Well done!
        
       | globalise83 wrote:
       | OK, so I have a very specific product area that I am both
       | interested in from a discovery perspective and know (modestly)
       | quite a lot about, and just ran a query on it, and I must say,
       | this search engine provided a really interesting and thought-
       | provoking set of results. Good job.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Awesome to hear!
        
       | gsuuon wrote:
       | This is nice - I for one appreciate the results not being ranked
       | by points, since some interesting stories don't get any traction.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | It's a tough call. I personally agree that default sorting on
         | relevance score is better for discovery. It's easy enough to
         | switch the ordering to points if desired.
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | This is very cool! Since HN's own search doesn't work without JS
       | enabled this is a massive help
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Hell yeah. We were super passionate about making sure it would
         | work without JS as well as with.
        
       | pflanze wrote:
       | Thanks for the nojs version!
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Of course!!
        
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       (page generated 2024-08-29 23:00 UTC)