[HN Gopher] Low Cost Mini PCs
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Low Cost Mini PCs
While searching for mini PCs for my home server, I figured I'd use
the eBay API to find the cheapest ones. Inspired by diskprices.com,
I built a static site using Eleventy and a python script that uses
regex to parse the data. I tried to include as many filters as
possible like OS, Wifi, HDMI etc. I would like to add power usage,
noise levels, PCIe slots but that data is hard to find. Please let
me know if you have any feedback / suggestions. Thanks!
Author : mjcurl
Score : 555 points
Date : 2024-08-29 12:03 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (lowcostminipcs.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (lowcostminipcs.com)
| mjcurl wrote:
| The coolest ones I found:
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/315406551868
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/386903851995
|
| I one I ended up getting:
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/296370169192?var=594356150752
| samstave wrote:
| That one you got is stunning value!
|
| This site is fantastic.
|
| Also - look at CyberPunk 2077 Crawler
|
| https://github.com/itsOwen/CyberScraper-2077
|
| By another HNer.
|
| This site is great!.
|
| Would be cool to use it as a template for any other category of
| "thing" -- if you could share it.
| xhrpost wrote:
| Stunning value indeed, they got more RAM than my M3 I use for
| work. Edit: oh wait there are drop downs to change the specs,
| subject is max specs but initial price is the min specs.
| Still good though
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| It's a shame that people need to use this template to design
| these sorts of eBay search sites though. Seems like it'd be
| easy enough for eBay to create a tabular view where one could
| choose fields applicable to their search - the same table
| that works for mini PCs could work for smartphones or comic
| books or collectable coins or whatever.
|
| I suspect that doing so wouldn't be great for eBay's business
| though - the table is sortable, but eBay wants to sell
| promoted listings that are at the top of pages. And less
| dense search result views with big photos probably entice
| people to buy "shiny" things rather than specs.
| dotBen wrote:
| _That one you got is stunning value!_
|
| (it was priced for a more basic spec than in the title. If
| you played with the configuration the spec in the title came
| to $219.99. You can make your own determination whether that
| was as good value)
| roshansingh wrote:
| The one you got is so cool. Can you leave this running 24x7 and
| is it noisy?
| drcongo wrote:
| A CPU arch filter would be useful (I've been on the lookout for
| an ARM based one), as would the ability to choose a different
| eBay region (I'm in the UK). Nice work though!
| amiga-workbench wrote:
| A friend of mine has a few Dell Kace M300's which they run
| Linux on. Would that kind of thing be what you're looking for?
| It was originally an asset management appliance for businesses.
|
| https://sudos.wordpress.com/2022/05/27/dell-kace-m300-or-fan...
| kyriakos wrote:
| This is fantastic. Can you add a filter for location
| US/Europe/Asia?
| rkachowski wrote:
| seconded, i've been looking for exactly this kind of machine in
| EU and this would be ideal.
| mjcurl wrote:
| which eBay marketplace do you use?
| gerardpg wrote:
| Spain.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Yes, should be easy. Would it work if it used the region's ebay
| marketplace to get results? The following could be added:
| EBAY_AT - Austria (ebay.at) EBAY_AU - Australia
| (ebay.com.au) EBAY_BE - Belgium (ebay.com.be)
| EBAY_CA - Canada (ebay.ca) EBAY_CH - Switzerland
| (ebay.ch) EBAY_DE - Germany (ebay.de) EBAY_ES -
| Spain (ebay.es) EBAY_FR - France (ebay.fr) EBAY_GB
| - Great Britain (ebay.co.uk) EBAY_HK - Hong Kong
| (ebay.com.hk) EBAY_IE - Ireland (ebay.ie) EBAY_IT -
| Italy (ebay.it) EBAY_NL - Netherlands (ebay.nl)
| EBAY_PL - Poland (ebay.pl) EBAY_SG - Singapore (ebay.sg)
| exacube wrote:
| yes that'd be great!
|
| and if the price could somehow include the shipping rate to
| the country, that'd be awesome
| kyriakos wrote:
| Yeah that works too :)
| inhumantsar wrote:
| region can help but Item Location is the important one
| prmoustache wrote:
| ideally you would add regional popular second hand websites
| too.
|
| I don't know about the USA but in most europe countries ebay
| is less and less the default place to look for second hand
| items.
| transpute wrote:
| What are some alternative EU sites?
| kyriakos wrote:
| I don't think there's an EU-wide site for used items
| unfortunately. Each country has a couple of local sites.
| prmoustache wrote:
| leboncoin.fr in France, subito.it I believe in Italy, in
| Spain Wallapop.es although wallapop also exist in some of
| those euro countries, anibis.ch in Switzerland, I am not
| sure about the rest and I guess they don't have a public
| api so you would probably have to rely on web scrapping.
| aarroyoc wrote:
| +1 for Wallapop in Spain. There's also MilAnuncios, but
| Wallapop is what people say when they say they want to
| sell second-hand stuff
| JoachimSchipper wrote:
| marktplaats.nl is the big "eBay-like" for the
| Netherlands.
| beeboobaa3 wrote:
| ebay isn't widely used in the EU. Sure the sites exist, but
| they're just filled with ads, not by listings put up by
| consumers.
|
| You'd need to support national alternatives, like marktplaats
| for NL
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Would be great to have a GB/UK version.
| Daneel_ wrote:
| Yes please, this would be very helpful (I'm in Australia).
| JohnHammersley wrote:
| As others have said, a filter on item location would be
| ideal, but the region might also work. Specifically UK/GB for
| my use case :)
|
| Thanks for putting the site together!
| prmoustache wrote:
| I seconds that, without filters it is worthy of ending up on
| r/usdefaultism
| nolok wrote:
| Another approach for this if you're in europe (I do not know
| the market elsewhere) are the quality refurbished resellers
| (they buy bulk from companies upgrading, refurbish, sell with
| warranty).
|
| Eg in France https://www.afbshop.fr/PC-Bureau or
| https://www.tradediscount.com/ordinateur-bureau/unite-centra...
|
| Price might be a bit higher, but eg right now for sub 200 you
| can get a mini pc with ryzen 2400G and 16GB of RAM, with
| warranty. That's a great proxmox machine for jellyfin & co.
| transpute wrote:
| Useful index!
|
| Suggestions: 1. encode search filters in URL, for
| sharing/bookmark 2. Add "Intel vPro" as a filter.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Good call, I'll encode the state in the URL.
|
| Did not come across a lot of Intel VPros in my searches. What's
| the use case for them?
| transpute wrote:
| Many of the Dell/HP mini PCs with Intel i5 or higher are
| vPro, because they were used in corporate environments, but
| it looks like this is rarely part of the eBay item
| description. Thanks for checking.
|
| vPro devices support Intel TXT (DRTM) to verify firmware
| integrity on each boot, based on user/OS policy. TXT can be
| used with QubesOS ("Anti Evil Maid"), Windows Virtualization-
| Based Security (VBS) or upcoming Linux Secure Launch in
| mainline Linux. vPro also supports optional remote KVM/serial
| management over LAN with Intel AMT, which could be considered
| a feature or anti-feature, depending on use case.
| mdrzn wrote:
| Add a location filter otherwise it's completely useless from
| outside USA. I clicked on a $30 Ebay link and the shipping price
| is US $542.06 UPS Worldwide Saver
| mjcurl wrote:
| True, thought of this as a test run. Other locations should be
| added soon.
| gboone wrote:
| Would be nice if links opened a new tab. Good job.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Thanks! I think it's a better practice to not open links in a
| new tab i.e users should have control over their experience.
| But it can be subjective.
| achow wrote:
| Opening in a new tab has become some kind of standard UX.
| Regardless of that, for this kind of site it would be very
| useful for product spec comparison.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I'm a Ctrl-click kinda guy for these scenarios.
| samstave wrote:
| Always open in new tab. Ill keep track of the 437 I have open
| in 7 different FF windows, and the couple Edge tabs to hide
| cookies ThankYouVeryMuch
|
| EDIT: Yes ctrl-click is _too much_ effort. Middle-click even.
|
| ( _Many forget a middle click on a mouse-wheel is also a
| ctrl-click /new-tab button, and the thumb button MOUSE4 is
| back_)
| josefresco wrote:
| Think about it this way: Will the user "lose their place" on
| your page if they click a link and go back? Will the user
| lose any filtering or search options? If the answer is yes to
| either, open in a new tab. I personally make this
| determination all the time, especially on social media after
| I've scrolled a lot and don't want my "progress" to be lost.
| mjcurl wrote:
| That makes sense to me, thank you. I have changed links to
| open in a new tab.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I think not forcing links to open in a new tab is the right
| call.
|
| However, the point about losing one's place is a valid one,
| and I agree with the other commenter that said it would be
| good to encode the state in the URL to solve that.
| shmoogy wrote:
| Being able to filter by CPU (and model i.e. optiplex 3010 or
| whatever) would be useful here. I'm looking for a sff that has
| 13th gen intel cpu, supports 64gb ram as an example.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Since there's hundreds/thousands of cpus and models, how about
| a keyword filter field?
| roger_ wrote:
| Came to suggest the same thing.
|
| I'd love to be able to filter by CPU and generation.
|
| Maybe using an LLM could help with the parsing?
| someone13 wrote:
| It'd also be neat if there was a way to sort by the passmark
| CPU benchmark score:
|
| https://www.cpubenchmark.net/
| voidUpdate wrote:
| oooo, this is useful! It's a pain trying to search for these
| kinds of things manually, and it would be nice to get a whole
| stack of the kind of lenovo I have haha. Just need the UK region
| support :P
| jasongill wrote:
| Would it be possible to add a column with some kind of CPU score
| - for those of us who don't keep up on PC CPU advancements, it's
| hard to tell if an i3 5th gen is faster or slower than an i5 3rd
| gen
| mjcurl wrote:
| I did plan this, but upon getting the data, found it too
| difficult for the initial version. There's no standard for CPU
| (or most fields actually), so sellers write it in a variety of
| ways. But it could be done, after I compile a dataset of cpu >
| benchmarks.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I like passmark / cpubenchmark.net to get a good ballpark
| idea of CPU performance, because it covers a _wide_ range of
| CPUs, and because it has both single-core and multi-core
| scores.
| mjcurl wrote:
| I prefer that too. Now to get data for all the listed CPUs!
| outime wrote:
| This is neat, although I have a word of caution (even if it might
| be a bit obvious): it's possible to find good deals, but you
| should be aware of power usage. There are modern mini PCs, such
| as those with Intel N100 processors, that are very cheap and
| consume very few watts while being useful for many purposes. I
| personally bought a brand-new CHUWI LarkBox X, and it's been
| great. It cost around 100 EUR on a deal. If however power usage
| isn't an issue for you and you don't care about other misc stuff
| (noise levels etc) then you can disregard this.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Agreed, an N100 mini PC can be a great deal. They also tend to
| be smaller. I added a separate Intel filter that includes a lot
| of N100s. But it might be better to buy those new, not used.
| josefresco wrote:
| For those wondering (like me) the normal price for the CHUWI
| LarkBox X is about $190.
| bizzleDawg wrote:
| Does anyone have any useful rules-of-thumb or heuristics for
| balancing this trade off of upfront cost v.s. power cost? e.g.
| how much does an N100 cost to run for a year v.s. say a
| i5-2400s (the CPU for the first row on the linked site)?
| mpol wrote:
| I used to calculate costs of lightbulbs: 1 Watt running the
| whole year, at 0,28 eurocent/kWh costs 1 Euro per year. Until
| someone corrected me and it turned out that every 1 Watt 24/7
| will be 2 Euro per year.
|
| In the US electric power might be cheaper. And if it's
| running only part of the time, you should adjust the
| calculation.
|
| My desktop/server runs 24/7, so I prefer having a CPU with
| 65W TDP over one that is 125W TDP. That might run up to 120
| Euro per year difference for me (if it would be running at
| 100% CPU).
| gizmo wrote:
| Real world energy use is nothing like what you see on spec
| sheets. And not just because manufacturers differ in how
| they compute TPD. And TPD is also not a good indicator for
| energy use at (near) idle. With underclocking/volting in
| the BIOS you can get a beefier CPU to outperform smaller
| CPUs per watt. Because CPUs get really inefficient as they
| use more power undervolted or capped high TPD chips might
| be much more power efficient in the real world than their
| low TPD counterparts.
| mjcurl wrote:
| I tried to find this out myself. All I could find easily was
| the TDP of different processors. But I'm not sure if it's a
| good measure of how much power it will use.
| bizzleDawg wrote:
| Yeah, exactly! I suppose that it's workload dependent to a
| great extent
| tfryman wrote:
| I went down this rabbit hole earlier this year. Best I came
| up with was to calculate the TDP at max for the whole year.
| Full TDP is unrealistic, but it gets us a worst-case "max
| running cost" . Energy for me is roughly $0.12/kWh, so the
| yearly max running cost for a 35W TDP is $36.79, 65W is
| $68.33, and the 95W would be $99.86.
|
| I ended up going with a HP EliteDesk 800 G5 Mini I5-9500T
| (35W) off of Ebay for $100 and it does the stuff I need it
| to do just fine. According to my current monthly power
| usage graph, it's averaged 7W which accounts for $0.61 of
| this month's power bill.
| teamonkey wrote:
| The only real way of knowing is to measure it. If you
| already have a system in place an energy monitoring smart
| plug can help you calculate the current running costs and
| help estimate the savings of using a lower-power machine.
|
| When I did this I was surprised by how much - or how little
| - it cost to run various devices. It's quite addictive.
|
| It's not always accurate because a lower-power machine
| doing the same task will often need to work at its full
| power more often, so the savings may be less. For example,
| a Raspberry Pi 5 may often be more power effecient than a
| Pi 4, despite drawing more power at full capacity on paper,
| because it spends less time at full capacity than the Pi 4
| does.
|
| On the other hand, when I upgraded my work PC I found it
| used less power but I also had to run my office heater more
| often in winter, as the new PC wasn't as efficient at
| heating the space.
| bee_rider wrote:
| No, sadly the TDP tells us every little about the idle
| power cost, which might be where you spend most of your
| time depending on the workload.
|
| Just from tweaking my laptop, I've noticed that when it is
| really idle (or I've intentionally put it in a low
| frequency mode), the big power drains are the wireless
| interfaces (don't forget bluetooth) and the screen (OLED
| helps as long as the screen is mostly black). Gotta tweak
| the whole thing.
| boredpudding wrote:
| If a Kwh of power costs $ 0,30, then 1 watt = $ 2,63 a year.
| (0.001 kwh * 24 hours * 365 days * $ 0,30).
|
| So, it goes quite quickly. Savings of 20 watt save you $ 52 a
| year.
| kstenerud wrote:
| My NUC13 with i3 has a nominal 15w TDP, but while idling on a
| KDE desktop with a browser open to reuters (1 tab) it hovers
| around 3 - 4w (5% CPU usage). If there's REALLY nothing going
| on (no desktop even) it's 1.0 - 1.3w (1% CPU usage).
|
| Edit: I should note that there's no fan drawing power because
| I put it in an Akasa passively cooled case.
| mkesper wrote:
| Reusing these boxes instead of having them thrown away and
| getting a new one built is better for the environment, though.
| DCKing wrote:
| I wouldn't automatically prefer any random N100 mini PC over a
| nice second hand enterprise mini PC.
|
| In home server use cases, mini PCs stay idle the vast majority
| of their runtime. So it's idle power consumption that is the
| most useful metric to look into. The N100 _can_ have great idle
| performance in theory, but most data I can find about N100
| boxes is them idling in the 12W-15W range. This is something
| that older enterprise mini desktops have no trouble matching or
| beating [1]. Especially since roughly the Skylake era (Intel
| 6th gen), idle power consumption for enterprise PCs has been
| excellent - but even before then it wasn 't bad.
|
| Enterprise vendors like Dell/HP/Lenovo have always optimized
| for TCO and actually usually use quite high quality power
| supply circuitry, whereas most N100 mini PCs tend to be built
| with cheaper components and not as optimized for low power
| usage for the whole system.
|
| [1]: I recommend reviewing Serve The Home's TinyMiniMicro
| project, which often finds the smallest enterprise PC form
| factors to idle at 8 to 13W, even older ones. Newer systems can
| get below 7W! https://www.servethehome.com/tag/tinyminimicro/
| switchbak wrote:
| One can also do things like undervolting to reduce the power
| draw even more. Modern BIOSs can give a lot of freedom for
| underclocking/volting, not just pushing things to consume
| more power.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| Power usage on these mini pcs is actually pretty decent.
|
| I have a bunch of SFF computers (Dell 7060, HP 600 G4, etc)
| with i7-8700 or similar CPUs. They all idle around 12 watts.
|
| Most of the mini pcs use the T version of the processors, which
| are usually 35w TDP.
|
| Power usage will definitely be higher than an N100 (65W TDP vs
| 6W), but they're a lot more versatile since you're getting more
| than double the performance, 2-3x the threads, and an iGPU that
| can do things like transcoding for plex and accelerate ML
| models for Frigate/Scrypted.
| some-guy wrote:
| N100's QuickSync has been good enough for me for Plex
| transcoding FWIW, though maybe your demands are higher than
| mine in terms of resolution
| JamesSwift wrote:
| I think HTPC hardware transcoding is basically the sweet
| spot use case for the N100. Its less good compared to
| alternatives for pushing the game emulation performance.
| mdasen wrote:
| Power consumption is definitely a big deal. I replaced an old
| PC that I'd been using as an always-on device with a tiny PC
| (i7-8700T) and it saved a ton of power. Given that power rates
| in New England are around $0.30/kWh, saving 50 watts means
| saving $128/year. I went from using around 60 watts to 10 watts
| at idle (and going from 110 watts under load to 50 watts).
|
| The new computer cost me $240 back in late 2022 (with 32GB of
| RAM and WiFi) so it'll basically pay for itself in electricity
| savings - and it's 3x faster than what it replaced.
|
| ServeTheHome has some good reviews:
| https://www.servethehome.com/tag/tinyminimicro/. The tl;dr is
| just that there's good options from Dell, HP, and Lenovo and
| the differences are kinda minor, but it's a good source if you
| care about specific information and teardowns.
|
| It's a great little machine, takes up almost no space, it's
| almost silent, and it was basically free with the power savings
| - in fact, once I pass the two year mark, it was cheaper to get
| the new hardware than to keep running the old.
|
| And you can put Proxmox on it as a hypervisor to run multiple
| OSs or containers.
| kjs3 wrote:
| The N100s are everywhere, but I think the N305 with 8 E-cores
| is the bomb for a home server at slightly more power
| consumption.
| BizarroLand wrote:
| If the system draws 65 watts and you pay 12 cents/kwh, then it
| will cost you right at $68.377 dollars a year to run it at full
| tilt.
|
| Math: 1,000 watts /65 watts/hour = 15.384 hours per kwh. 365.25
| days/year * 24 hours/day = 8766 hours/yr <=(accounting for leap
| days) 8766 hours/yr / 15.384 hours/kwh = 569.81 kwh/yr 569.81
| kwh/yr * $0.12/kwh = $68.377/yr
|
| For quick math where accuracy isn't very important, at
| $0.12/kwh it will cost you ~$1.05/year per watt (65w =
| $68.38/yr), so every watt you save per year is a dollar in your
| pocket.
|
| Of course, there are ways to reduce the energy usage of a
| system, a computer rarely has to run at 100% 24/7/365 unless it
| is very underspecced for your use case, even things as simple
| as enabling C states and not utilizing all of the PC resources
| available will save you many dollars a year.
| molticrystal wrote:
| It would be awesome if you included shipping in the total
| price(or at least for certain countries). I know bookfinder does
| that, as some people add an extra $100 to several hundred dollars
| to the price which skews the results.
|
| I think ebay technically frowns upon excessive shipping as some
| sellers use it to get their items higher in certain search
| results due to a low base price, but ebay doesn't really apply
| enforcement to their sellers on these soft violations most of the
| time.
|
| -----
|
| It seems some of your filters like "storage type" are must
| include and when unchecking it all the results disappear, while
| others like "OS" seem like a filter and when unchecking the
| results increase.
|
| ------
|
| I'm not seeing many chromeboxes in the results so maybe they are
| being filtered out?
| mjcurl wrote:
| Thank you, I have fixed the "OS" filter to be must include.
|
| Chromeboxes don't come up much for the search I'm using. I
| think I could try a separate search for them.
|
| Regarding shipping, I'm not sure how to include it, since it
| requires the user's location, which would take this over the
| API limits. I'm going to add more marketplaces, and maybe
| product locations. Which country are you shipping to?
| throwup238 wrote:
| Maybe just take an average of shipping costs to a few
| locations (West coast Us, East coast US, Europe) and filter
| out anything where the shipping cost is greater than the cost
| of the product itself.
|
| Or just get a shipping estimate to the same city as the
| seller is in.
| Qerub wrote:
| Adding product location would be great! As a resident of the
| European Union I'm unlikely to order one of these mini PCs
| from the USA due to import taxes and additional shipping
| costs.
| chazeon wrote:
| I think shipping costs varies wrt where you live.
| jacky_tuning wrote:
| A $38 lenovo cost me $633.90 with the shipping costs, from US
| to Switzerland i guess :D
| smashah wrote:
| Amazing! A few more filters (e.g location) and this would be an
| amazing tool for buying locally. bookmarked!
| kylecazar wrote:
| I had largely written off eBay some years ago after some bad
| experiences -- but this tool just showed me some pretty insane
| deals on custom PC builds over there.. Neat.
| j0d1 wrote:
| This is really neat! I would love to see something similar for
| laptops. I bought a used Lenovo T80s (8th generation i5 CPU / 8GB
| of RAM / 256GB SSD) for 150$cad on eBay to work on my product
| (web app) and it is working flawlessly with Debian.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| Maybe consider adding Fujitsu as a manufacturer. At least here in
| Europe they're fairly common in business environments so get
| tossed on ebay quite frequently. I've had very good experience
| with their stuff over the past decade.
| weweweoo wrote:
| Definitely do that. Old Fujitsu thin clients make awesome DIY
| routers.
| wan888888 wrote:
| The joy of living in Australia: $38.00 + $710.23 shipping
| haunter wrote:
| Don't bother with eBay, you can get refurbsihed ones in
| Australia too
|
| A$115 example, https://www.australiancomputertraders.com.au/hp-
| elitedesk-80...
| overcast wrote:
| Been using a Beelink SER6 Mini PC, AMD Ryzen 5 6600H, 16GB DDR
| and 500GB NVME for the last year or so with PopOS as my daily
| driver and loving it. With a portable monitor makes remote work
| great for $351 and $100 for the monitor!
| InMice wrote:
| I have a beelink, have had no problems except the original SSD
| in mine failed suddenly in <1 year. I'd recommend anyone
| getting a beelink to swap out their SSD with a crucial,
| kingston, samsung brand etc before putting the pc to use.
| whiterock wrote:
| Could you add Geekbench scores? I'd love that :)
| eskibars wrote:
| This is awesome. I used to build a lot of stuff with various
| single-board computers (Raspberry Pis, etc) but realized I could
| get _way_ more performance and expandability with these mini PCs
| if the form factor didn 't require it.
|
| One other thing I'd be interested in: not just mini PCs but used
| office workstations. I realized that many offices were selling
| old workstations that were often just a few years old with things
| like dual Xeon chips and 64GB of RAM or more with support for a
| few hundred GB for only a few hundred $. Things like 2ish
| generation old HP Z400/Z600/Z800 series. They make for great home
| lab virtualization machines and can often support 2+ GPUs and a
| boatload of additional peripherals. I'd love to see something
| like this that lets you find those as well
| mydriasis wrote:
| For reference, I thought I'd outline the baby PCs I use, since
| we're chatting about baby PCs. Maybe someone will find this
| useful. I use thinkcentre M92p SFFs for easy server boxes. Some
| things I like: - Bountiful - Cheap -- they can be had for under
| $100 each - Pretty powerful considering what you're paying, too!
| - Use common desktop parts for the most part - Accepts low-
| profile PCIe equipment ( network cards for ethernet, wifi; GPUs )
| - Repair & replacement parts are CHEAP
|
| Some things I don't: - I've had to do some ridiculous things to
| get them to behave after installing Linux, like tricking the BIOS
| to deal with UEFI correctly - It's basically impossible to get a
| better power supply, so you're limited with how much each one can
| do. Don't expect anything better than a very low-power, low-
| profile GPU for example. - There's not a ton of room in the case,
| so if you want PCIe stuff you will need low-profile. You can
| definitely stuff lots of hard drives in there if you work at it,
| though.
|
| And, maybe someone has advice for me...!
| haunter wrote:
| > I've had to do some ridiculous things to get them to behave
| after installing Linux, like tricking the BIOS to deal with
| UEFI correctly
|
| Strange. I use Dell Optiplex Micros which are pretty much the
| same. I've never had a problem installing any Linux distros or
| hypervisors (Proxmox and XCP-NG)
| bitmasher9 wrote:
| I've bought 3 used Dells, mostly Optiplexes, over the decades
| for dedicated hardware for Linux based projects. They always
| seem like a good deal, and I surprisingly never have problems
| with them. These are fleet computers that get gently used
| during business hours that have IT departments that replace
| computers on a time schedule. Outside of one HDD that didn't
| last a year of heavy file traffic I haven't had really good
| luck with these machines.
| haunter wrote:
| >These are fleet computers that get gently used during
| business hours that have IT departments that replace
| computers on a time schedule
|
| Yeah these are the ones I'm buying too. Lot of banks have
| these for example as an all-in-one docked into a monitor.
| Sometimes they even have a small amount of Dell warranty
| left, though I've never ever had a problem with them.
| ilikepi wrote:
| > Sometimes they even have a small amount of Dell
| warranty left, though I've never ever had a problem with
| them.
|
| Yes, though technically any add-on warranty coverage or
| service plans are only available to the registered owner.
| I bought a couple Dell OptiPlex micros last year that
| were originally owned by a large organization. They were
| clearly being resold on eBay by someone who had acquired
| them in some sort of bulk purchase. Dell has a form you
| can submit to request that the registration be updated,
| but it requires you to provide contact information for
| the original owner. I asked the eBay seller if they for
| this contact information, but they said they did not. I
| was able to open a support request with Dell and have
| their records updated to show me as the owner after
| showing evidence that I had acquired the machines. This
| included a photo of them showing their asset tags along
| with a hand-written note that showed my support case
| number, as well as a copy of the eBay listings. I believe
| Dell checked with the original owner (a US federal
| agency) to verify the machines had been sold.
| haunter wrote:
| Thanks that's helpful. I still have two with warranty
| until January so I might try my luck with Dell
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| Same experience as you with HP Elitedesks. At work we used to
| use those for people doing regular office things. I have a
| few G2s (i5-6500) and they work flawlessly with Linux,
| including using my own secureboot keys.
| mydriasis wrote:
| It was so bizarre. I'd get a "No Operating System Found"
| message, and had to go toy with the UEFI config. Eek!
| rjst01 wrote:
| > I've had to do some ridiculous things to get them to behave
| after installing Linux, like tricking the BIOS to deal with
| UEFI correctly
|
| I would suggest going for a couple of generations newer - the
| M92p is from an era before UEFI became really stable. For
| automated testing of my startup's product we have a testlab of
| tens of older USFF desktops and the M700/M900/M910 machines are
| some of my favorites. They're also just before the cut-off for
| Windows 11 support so they're still available dirt cheap.
|
| Two things to watch out for - the M700 lacks a PCI-E M.2 slot -
| the internal M.2 slot supports only SATA M.2 drives. Second,
| the front USB ports failing is a really common failure mode.
| mydriasis wrote:
| Ooo that's _gotta_ be what it is. Just the most bizarre UEFI
| issues. I luckily found an incantation that works in a pretty
| general way for M92ps, but had I not I'd have some bricks
| laying around.
|
| Those M900s look REALLY nice!
| swills wrote:
| I have some M910q that I am very happy with. UEFI is well
| supported, I was able to upgrade them to 32gb of RAM, i7
| 7700t and both a 512gb SSD and NVMe for mirrored storage.
| Highly recommended. Sure, it would be nice to get something
| newer than 7th gen, but it's still highly capable, small,
| quiet and fairly low power usage.
| gizmo wrote:
| That's very cool. I ultimately concluded that those mystery brand
| Chinese fanless mini pcs from Amazon (essentially laptop hardware
| in a tiny enclosure) offer a better deal. Minimal power usage,
| fast networking, real USB-C, and NVMe drive support. Old hardware
| is bulky, makes noise, and outputs too much heat. Even the truly
| tiny mini pcs -- the kind that fit in your back pocket -- are
| fast enough for a NAS or TV media player.
| kyriakos wrote:
| They are usually a lot more expensive because they come with
| newer CPUs.
| sodimel wrote:
| This is cool!
|
| It reminds me of when I got my own web "server"; I purchased it
| (for ~50EUR) after reading this post[0] back in 2017. The
| optiplex fx160 is still running to this day.
|
| [0] http://thesizzlewo.webflow.io/blog/get-a-dell-optiplex-
| fx160...
| bArray wrote:
| For UK shoppers looking for a cheap laptop, the Dell Latitude
| E7240 is a solid machine [1]. For about PS50-PS60 delivered you
| can get a 12.5" machine with a ~4th gen i5, 4-8GB of RAM and an
| SSD. It's great for Teams/Zoom and the keyboard is very nice to
| type on.
|
| My personal one has 12GB of RAM (4+8) and two SSDs (there is a
| spare slot for a half size M.2. inside). You can abuse the hell
| out of them and they take it.
|
| [1]
| https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Dell%20Lati...
| xhrpost wrote:
| I've been loving the recent attention to mini PCs here. I've had
| hobby projects put off for a while as I tried to find the best
| R-Pi clone, only to buy one and struggle just to get it to boot.
| Then I pick up a used mini PC on ebay for like $42 shipped, power
| cord and everything and even a 500gb SSD. Now I have a server
| running at home and am actually working on projects again, oddly
| for probably less than what a Pi clone costs after you buy enough
| accessories to use it.
| roflmaostc wrote:
| difference might be that a Raspberry Pi consumes < 10W.
|
| An old PC draws easily 5-10 times more energy.
|
| Depending on your location, the yearly cost of running a Pi is
| around ~10$. The big machine then 50-100$. So energy wise, a
| small power efficient machine might be more expensive but the
| running cost could be lower.
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| Not only excess power draw, but excess heat, which then needs
| more power for the AC to cool the home
| switchbak wrote:
| I have a little Intel i5 behind me all year long, and I
| don't notice any effect on the temperature of this (small)
| room. 12 watts is not a lot of heat to be dumping.
|
| This is really small fry compared to other HVAC efficiency
| concerns, and definitely not an issue outside of summertime
| temps in most locales.
|
| My Threadripper on the other hand - I had to move that into
| the crawlspace as it was: a) loud as hell, and b) basically
| a space heater that also does useful compute. 160w idle,
| ~280w full tilt - that thing is very noticable.
| declan_roberts wrote:
| This is exactly why I upgrade my old 2012 server. I was
| able to cut the power usage (and heat generation) by over
| 90%.
|
| It makes a big difference in the summer, but I miss it
| during the winter.
| cdaringe wrote:
| Agreed. Related, disappointingly, the new pi5s don't have
| much in the way of running in a lower power state. I gather
| it's mainly the cpu, but my new pi5 runs hot doing a whole
| lot of nothing. Cooling solution is pretty much required. I
| am very content with perf, but it actually brings too much
| juice to the table for the tiny apps im running. Sure,
| another soc would be a better fit power wise, but the
| ecosystem keeps me locked in!
| dkasper wrote:
| I agree, might buy another pi 4 for my next project. The
| new chips are interesting though.
| bloomingeek wrote:
| You might consider a pi 5. I'm using it after I installed
| the NVMe top mount hat. (Where I loaded Raspberry OS.) It
| really speeds everything up!
|
| BTW, I'm using a M.2 2280 drive, even though the hat is
| designed for shorter drives. (I just tied mine down.) I
| installed it over the CPU fan and it works great.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| As noted in my other comment, my SFF computers with i7 CPUs
| idle around 12W. Roughly $20/year with my usage in a home
| server setup.
| auspiv wrote:
| mini PCs are < 10W also.
|
| I have a full on Dell Optiplex 3070 (i5-9500, 1x16GB memory,
| 512GB NVMe) running windows 10 that idles at 8W.
|
| I have a lenovo m92p tiny (i5-3570s, released 2012) that
| idles at 6W.
| xhrpost wrote:
| It's a fair point but as others have noted, these mini PCs
| can be very power efficient. I still need to hook up a meter
| to mine to see what the wattage is but I'm sure it's far
| below a typical desktop PC.
| vel0city wrote:
| My mini PC I use as a router with an N3710 CPU uses like 5W
| idle with a SATA SSD. It's a 6W TDP. Running full tilt is
| like 10W.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| As others have said, this needs to be qualified. My HP
| Elitedesk 800 G2 SFF qualifies as "old" I think, yet it draws
| 14-15W at idle, measured at the outlet.
|
| It has an i5-6500, 32 GB RAM, 2 SATA SSDs and a 4-port i350
| NIC (all ports up). Idle means OpnSense and HomeAssistant
| running inside KVM on top of whatever kernel version was
| current in Arch at the time, but with no traffic.
|
| Does the raspberry pi draw 1-3W only? It should be noted that
| old pcs like these can be had extremely cheap, so the
| difference in price should take this into account. Moreover,
| if you need extensions of any kind (NICs, drives), getting
| them running at all on a PI is somewhat more involved than on
| a standard PC.
| j45 wrote:
| I have owned gen 5/6/7/7 devices, Gen 8 delivers the idle
| power much more honestly and it can be measured quite
| easily.
|
| In either case, USFF is an order of magnitude less energy
| than desktop so it's still a win most of the time.
| weweweoo wrote:
| Here's examples of idle power consumption of second hand
| mini-pc's i've tested, running Ubuntu, measured from the
| wall:
|
| Dell Wyse 5070 with Pentium Silver J5005 ~ 5W
|
| Fujitsu Futro S940 with J5005 as well ~ 7W
|
| Dell Optiplex 3080 Micro with i5-10500t ~ 12W with two SSD's
|
| In comparison, my Ryzen 7 server build consumes about 22W
| idle (before I added GPU), has 4x SSD and 4x RAM sticks. I
| like raspberry pi, but for most purposes an used mini-pc is a
| better choice.
| sangnoir wrote:
| The RPi Zero 2 W consumes ~ 0.6W when idling, and costs $15
| new, or in the $25-30 range with a case and USB power
| adapter.
| 42lux wrote:
| Talking about building a server with a Zero 2 W is a bit
| of a stretch. I have some running as airplay and Spotify
| connect clients + some environmental sensors but much
| more would be pushing it...
| sangnoir wrote:
| No where in the thread was the "building a server" use
| case defined - the subject was always-on costs. That
| said, an RPi Zero works perfectly fine as a pihole (DHCP
| + DNS server), WireGuard node, a git mirror (running
| Forgejo), and many more use cases that are not CPU-bound.
|
| Obviously, Raspberry Pis, SFF boxes, workstations and
| rack mounted servers all occupy different niches (with
| some overlap). Anyone confidently stating that one could
| fully replace anther with no context of the workloads is
| wrong.
| 42lux wrote:
| The OP of the comment you answered was pretty much
| talking about how he uses his mini PC as a server and
| doing projects on it... and ofc a zero can do everything
| but at what speed? IOPS is disturbingly slow. I like the
| Zero for what it is but it's just not a good server fit.
| sangnoir wrote:
| I mean, I do projects on mine too. Without OP describing
| what the projects are; you're assuming they are CPU-
| bound.
|
| Speaking of my projects - the RPi is perfectly capable of
| working as a web crawler (at a page rate that may
| surprise you) as well as a media download client &
| transcoder (again, simultaneously transcoding a number of
| streams that may surprise you).
| 42lux wrote:
| It's fine that it's enough for you and I applaud you. I
| was also not only talking about CPU but also IOPs some of
| us have more demand on what we call a server. I don't
| understand how you can be so defensive about a piece of
| hardware it's actually rather concerning and my zero w 2
| does have problems with FullHD streams with high
| bitrates. It doesn't even have the io bandwidth to push
| more than one stream.
| sangnoir wrote:
| I'm defending "right-sizing' the compute to match the
| workload; and the RPis are entirely capable to handle
| most "ambient computing" batched tasks.
|
| My homelab includes 1L PCs and 1 U rackmounts (actual
| servers) - I appreciate what each brings to the table.
| antisthenes wrote:
| The RPi zero 2 is nowhere near powerful enough to be used
| for multiple purposes as any of the above machines.
|
| It could probably run a single-task relatively well, like
| PiHole or something, but otherwise it's in a completely
| different performance category. Like an order of
| magnitude.
|
| So 6W idle for J5005 would put it on the same level of
| efficiency.
| sangnoir wrote:
| You're right, the RPi zero 2's CPU is slower - but that
| doesn't matter for non-interactive tasks. I don't care
| that my cloud backup export cron job runs 5 minutes (or
| hours) longer on the Pi than on a Nuc; I only care it
| happens daily. For the CPU-/GPU-heavy workloads, the RPi
| Zero W is works as an orchestrator for the > 10W
| computer: powering it on and off as needed.
| paulmd wrote:
| Pi 4 is the smallest thing that would be remotely
| comparable to even a 14nm-era atom NUC in terms of
| usability as a fileserver etc
| xhrpost wrote:
| Add an SD card to that cost as well as an ethernet
| adapter, maybe wifi too? I'm not trying to bash on the Pi
| as option in all cases, just trying to note that in some
| cases, particularly hosting local services, it's likely
| not the simplest choice. Uses where I can see needing a
| Pi over a miniPC? Maybe 4k video playback, I'm not sure
| how well these x86 systems from 2011 can do that while
| some Pi's IIRC have onboard hardware for h265 decoding.
| notpublic wrote:
| Have a used HP Prodesk 600 G3 with 16GB RAM running idle
| around ~12W. Bought it last year and its been running solid
| so far.
| fud101 wrote:
| I've switched to a minipc as my main computer. I'll never go
| back. Went from a 16 core monster to whatever 4 cores this
| thing has and it's just as nice.
| fossdd wrote:
| I wonder why you switched and not use your 16-core PC? did it
| somehow broke or do you just like the benefits of a minipc?
| bityard wrote:
| Not who you are replying to, but likely: 1) heat 2) fan
| noise 3) power consumption.
|
| I recently (8 months ago) replaced my 10 year-old laptop.
| The only reason I retired it was because the display was
| starting to go.
|
| So I bought a second-hand workstation-class laptop with 6
| beefy CPU cores and kinda wish I hadn't. Overall I want to
| like it but the battery life is abysmal, it makes a lot of
| heat even when fairly idle, and is a bit heavy due to the
| large heatsink inside. (And that's without a dedicated
| GPU.)
|
| If I had to do it over again, I would trade it for one with
| a weaker but more power-efficient CPU.
| dmonitor wrote:
| Laptops are notorious for poor thermal management. I have
| no doubt that just about anything would be better than a
| "powerful" laptop.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Depending on your needs, Chromebook + headless
| workstation tucked away in a different room or garage
| could also work (with WoL/smart plug)
| amelius wrote:
| Is it possible to run Linux on all of them (so remove existing
| Windows)?
|
| If not, maybe add a checkbox for it.
| bityard wrote:
| Linux will run on basically any x86 box.
|
| The question of "how well?" is mostly down to the fact that
| some GPUs and wifi chips have substandard support due to their
| manufacturers' refusal to document their driver interfaces.
| amelius wrote:
| > I would like to add power usage, noise levels, PCIe slots but
| that data is hard to find.
|
| Maybe you can use an LLM to extract that data from reviews?
|
| Anyway, I'd like to know if I can use the system for a home
| cinema, so it should be able to decode 4k resolution in real time
| (and shouldn't be too noisy). It would be nice if there was a
| checkbox for that usecase.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Reviews aren't common due to many listings having 1 item in
| stock.
|
| What would the requirements for your decoding be?
| amelius wrote:
| > What would the requirements for your decoding be?
|
| Well, it should just play 4k content from various sources
| (and so various formats), using Vlc.
|
| > Reviews aren't common due to many listings having 1 item in
| stock.
|
| I suppose you could use a (Google) search to find reviews
| elsewhere on the internet, based on the product name. Then
| feed them to ChatGPT, and ask it to summarize various things
| and build a JSON structure out of its findings. Maybe ChatGPT
| can even do the search for you.
| preciz wrote:
| Probably GMKtec is cheaper and better. I own one.
| https://www.gmktec.com
| bloomingeek wrote:
| Yes and Yes! I have two of them and just ordered a third, great
| machines.
| phkahler wrote:
| I really want a new motherboard form factor that gets rid of the
| graphics card slot and assumes integrated graphics. It should
| also aim to reduce the height of the back panel a little bit.
| Maybe allow 4 DIMM slots (ECC preferred).
|
| I just upgraded my Mellori-ITX to 64GB RAM and have a 5700G to
| drop in there. This is possibly the best SFF config you can do in
| an AM4 socket:
|
| https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX
|
| BTW we need USB ports ON TOP so you can plug stuff in without
| pushing the PC around the desk. Storage, not permanently attached
| stuff.
| indigodaddy wrote:
| The eBay sellers who do the customization/price thing makes some
| of your price results misleading/unreliable as the price will be
| more on those than the base you have listed.
| mjcurl wrote:
| I found that to happen sometimes, so I marked customizable
| listings. But I think I was able to parse most of them to show
| the specs for the selected variation, not the parent or the
| title.
| riledhel wrote:
| I've recently bought this Intel N100 mini pc
| https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005006727722225.html and it's
| amazing. It even came with win11 preinstalled, an unexpected
| surprise for me. 16G RAM and 512G SSD for 100 euros, great deal.
| mech422 wrote:
| Gotta throw in a mention of my fav: Odroid H2/3/4(1) $125ish for
| an SBC with Intel N/J series CPU, DDR4/DDR5, up to 32G RAM, SATA,
| Dual Ethernet etc. I have the old H2+ series and LOVE them :-)
|
| 1: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h4/
| haunter wrote:
| You can probably find better deals from PC shops selling
| refurbuished enterprise PCs (Lenovo, Dell, HP)
| breakds wrote:
| I am currently using a Beelink SER8, a very decent powerful mini
| PC for its price. It is also the most quiet mini PC I have used.
| nashashmi wrote:
| I have been looking into mini pcs. The niche I want is a USB c
| powered hand sized pc. I have only found two on Amazon so far,
| one has a small screen and another close to the size of a small
| dock. But they are both underpowered with Celeron processors.
|
| I just need something that i can take from one desk to another
| that carry docking stations.
| universa1 wrote:
| I wanted to recommend Minisforum, as I have a um560, that is
| powered through usb-c. But that is not available anymore... So
| those kind of machines exist...
|
| You could get a frame.work laptop in an external case, slightly
| larger than hand-sized, though.
| sulandor wrote:
| YES!!!! Usable ebay interface - very nice!
|
| would be great to have a filter for country of origin/shipping
| InMice wrote:
| Makes you think about how most website are just junky
| interfaces atop relatively simple tables of data.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Oh, how I wish I had better access to the eBay data ..
| currently they limit you to 5k requests per day.
| sulandor wrote:
| "value added and removed here"
| steeleyespan wrote:
| Would have loved to see this site a few months back. I ended up
| buying Dell optiplex refurbs thinking they were minis, but they
| were big lol.
|
| Edit: Nevermind - mine are the same size as many of the listings
| here with DVD drives. I was thinking of micros.
| simplecto wrote:
| Websites like this talk to my heart. Strong early 2000s vibes of
| nerds just putting it out there.
|
| Love this, thank you!
| agg23 wrote:
| This is really nice, and I just did this analysis myself.
|
| It seems like the tool is missing some of the better deals, like
| Optiplex 3070 with 9th gen i5s for ~$100, entire working system
| included (this is what I ended up buying).
| mjcurl wrote:
| eBay uses a 'best match' sort on the results, perhaps that's
| why it was missed. What did you search for when you found this
| one?
| agg23 wrote:
| I believe I looked up common machines with good prices, then
| searched for those individually, which obviously isn't going
| to work very well for this tool.
| darkstar_16 wrote:
| the data needs a bit of a cleanup. I see N100 showing up with
| "Intel 100", Intel Alder Lake N100" and just "3.4 GHz" in various
| places.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Is this for the CPU column? That's actually one I spent the
| least time on, since there was so much variation with how
| sellers entered processors. I'll take a look at it, thanks.
| davidjade wrote:
| Cool. It would be great to be able to filter Intel vs AMD. Or
| perhaps even by processor family.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Sure, how about a keyword filter instead? That way you can
| filter by whatever instead of big filter lists cluttering the
| UI.
| davidjade wrote:
| That would be good. Easy enough to filter Intel vs AMD that
| way as well as a particular CPU.
| heraldgeezer wrote:
| I love it. But its been a bit of a "secret" that office PCs that
| are 3 years old are still very very good. I hope tech bros dont
| ruin this. Also lol at power consumption voes.
| tracker1 wrote:
| There are some refurbers that will take office PCs and put a
| modern-ish GPU, upgrade the PSU etc. That said, Mini PCs don't
| offer PCIe expansion most of the time, so a GPU upgrade isn't
| an option. Less appealing compared to new options.
| heraldgeezer wrote:
| I mean those optiplex typ desktops. Now everyone gets laptops
| or big workstations anyways. Mini PCs are for POS and
| singage.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Site is currently timing out. If it's actually static, stick it
| behind free Cloudflare. But still - nice idea, thanks for the
| Show HN.
|
| Does anyone know what the right searchplace is for media storage
| PCs? I'm considering getting something in this area that's a bit
| more sophisticated than a NAS but not a huge project to maintain.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Actually I did stick it behind Cloudflare..not sure why it
| would time out, since it's just an html page.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Huh, turns out to be a problem at my end, probably due to
| corporate firewall.
| eternauta3k wrote:
| Are you the same guy from https://diskprices.com ? Awesome tools!
| Would be nice to have ebay.de as well.
| mjcurl wrote:
| No, just was inspired by diskprices, thought it's great UX. I
| will be adding more marketplaces, .de included.
| thelastgallon wrote:
| An option to filter by ECC RAM would be super helpful.
| mjcurl wrote:
| I wanted to add this, but that data is almost never entered by
| sellers.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Instant bookmark, thank you!
|
| Wishlist: please allow filtering by Intel / AMD CPUs and Intel /
| NVIDIA / AMD GPUs. It's IMO important to know how many open
| drivers can the buyer use on Linux / BSD.
| mjcurl wrote:
| Another person mentioned this, so I will add this as soon as I
| can.
| skadamat wrote:
| I love how simple this site is. It's fast, no navigation, etc.
| Kudos!
| bloqs wrote:
| Cant recommend anything based on intel N100 enough. Power draw is
| about 13w but absolutely excellent performance. Bought several
| "Firebat" ones from AliExpress
| Tepix wrote:
| Very cool. Can you add support for eBay Germany (ebay.de)?
| eterps wrote:
| I would love to see something like this but being able to sort on
| price/performance ratio (f.e. based on a CPU performance index in
| comparison to the price).
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| seconded. I cant keep up with all the variants on intels naming
| scheme.
| buescher wrote:
| What I'd really like to see is the curve! There's usually two
| "sweet spots", right? The minimum you should spend, and what
| you should expect at that point, and the point of diminishing
| returns, and what you should expect there.
| jll29 wrote:
| ...and MIPS/Watt!
| FloatArtifact wrote:
| sorting based on the processors, release date, or by performance
| single slash multi-core would be interesting.
| DownrightNifty wrote:
| This is super cool! Now if only my ISP would give me a static IP
| address so I could expose port 51820 on one of these things and
| life would be perfect.
| baggachipz wrote:
| Very cool. It would be helpful to allow search on processor
| architecture and power draw as well.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| You should have a filter for processor, feel the difference
| between ones like N100 and usual low end Intel processors is
| huge. Might be cool to list them with benchmarks too for people
| who don't want to do research.
| wscott wrote:
| On the website itself, "OS" "Included" and "Not Included" is
| strange. I don't see that I need "Not Included", unchecking
| "Included" should show you everything but instead it shows you
| nothing. I don't see the value of "no os included" verses a copy
| of Windows that I will overwrite.
|
| So I would just have an "OS Included?" checkbox.
| chazeon wrote:
| Core count is something I would add to the table. These mini PC
| are good for hobbyists, they are cheaper, stable, faster and
| easier to maintain than Arm SBCs I have get four of them since
| pandemic. I can't wait to see what happen when hyperscaler retire
| their A100s/H100s.
| layer8 wrote:
| This is only of limited usefulness if you want to buy a new mini
| PC (rather than specifically a used unit from eBay). For example,
| many current fanless models are not listed. Just searching for
| "fanless mini pc" on Amazon.com gives many more (and some
| cheaper) results.
|
| This might be a task for an LLM-supported scraper looking at a
| number of online marketplaces, retailers, and manufacturer sites.
| Then, conversely, you could link to matching eBay listings. It
| would also need a mechanism for users to submit spec corrections.
| botro wrote:
| I have found that laptops with cracked or scrached screens offer
| a much better value in terms of newer hardware. The battery acts
| as a built in UPS.
|
| For example this laptop:
|
| Dell Latitude 7400 Intel i7-1165G7 16GB 256GB NVMe SSD
|
| Is $180 shipped.
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/266969891671?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid...
| distant_travelr wrote:
| Dude, why are the filters not url encoded??? This makes sharing a
| specific config to my mates so annoying
| VikingCoder wrote:
| ETA Prime has some advice on making a gaming machine out of cheap
| old PCs:
|
| "You Can Build This Powerful Ultra Low Cost SteamOS 3 Gaming PC
| For Only $150"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFIgQ9zgXOk
|
| Optiplex 7020 with a tower - not a "Small Form Factor."
|
| "This Super Low Cost PC Runs SteamOS 3 Better Than The Steam
| Deck!"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myye5o0y2Jw
| detritus wrote:
| Thanks for this! I've been meaning to get back into games but
| only keep a laptop at home and I had no idea that I could make
| a machine that could capably serve my needs for <PS300 (32Gb
| Win10 i7 6700 with 256gb SSD (!), OK 2nd hand GPU) I spent my
| younger years always having The Best Machine I CoUlD afFord,
| but fifteen years later I just want something 'good enough' and
| it's nice to know I needn't spend over a grand to do so.
|
| Thanks again!
| VikingCoder wrote:
| Yeah, to be honest, I followed one of these build guides, and
| got a second hand GPU, and it didn't fit in the case. I tried
| to "make" it fit with some shears. It died. No surprise. So
| then I bought a new cheap GPU, and the machine seems to work
| pretty well. My kids play Minecraft and StepMania on it.
|
| https://www.newegg.com/dell-7020/p/N82E16883165773 - $160
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Power-Express-Video-Cable-
| Adapter/dp/...
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C3QSCLR4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_.
| .. - $101 - this one fit!
|
| But I found more videos I had bookmarked:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTAzwKiQ7Ns
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLQ8NDbMEUw
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97enzfkRg2o
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvNS4M3o85o
|
| ALSO, while we're chatting - I picked up this Chromebook:
|
| ASUS Chromebook Plus, CM3401 14" 2-in-1 Laptop with Google AI
| - AMD Ryzen 3 7320C - 8GB Memory - 128GB SSD - Ponder Blue,
| Model CM3401FF-R3128BLX.
|
| I got it in "Open Box Good" condition for $199.99.
|
| https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-chromebook-plus-
| cm3401-14-...
|
| I kind of love it. Convertible to tablet (keyboard folds
| under.) Runs Android apps, including Disney+, can download
| Disney+ shows. HDMI out. I believe the HDMI out works for
| Disney+ which is a surprise and a treat. Runs Linux. I
| installed Visual Studio Code, .Net Core, etc. Because it's a
| "Chromebook Plus," it has an App Shortcut to install the
| Steam Installer. (!!!) I installed Balatro, and the
| touchscreen works awesome. I installed both Android Minecraft
| (works well on the built-in screen but for some reason has
| frame rate problems on the external display?), and also
| Minecraft Java through the Linux.
|
| Haven't tried too many other Steam games yet. I tried to
| install Path of Exile, but it seems to completely not work.
|
| For $199.99, the thing's a beast.
| renewiltord wrote:
| This is cool. I frequently have a need for this. I also would
| love if there were a site for low power PCs.
| bluepuma77 wrote:
| It would be great if it would support other eBay sites than just
| .com, not everyone is in the US :)
| guelermus wrote:
| Nice. Could you please add also the postal costs to the sort? My
| very first trial showed me a 38$ PC with 500$ postal cost. I'm
| located in Europe, but still ???
| ethanpil wrote:
| This is wonderful i'll be using this a lot. Would be great to see
| a filter for Tiny vs Mini as well as CPU. AMD/Intel and i3 i7 i9,
| etc, maybe even generation, etc
| bflesch wrote:
| now do the same for europe with EUR prices...
| RobotToaster wrote:
| data on ECC ram support would be helpful, since it's needed for
| ZFS.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| A bit meta but nice job on the site design. Dense but very
| readable, filter controls are clear and with a minimum of
| unnecessary decoration. I wish more people still designed
| websites like this. Reminds me a bit of McMaster-Carr.
| jd3 wrote:
| Had the same initial thought; the site design is simple and
| straightforward, but info dense and easy to navigate, similar
| to craigslist.
| atentaten wrote:
| This is great. I wish there were something similar to find
| hardware to run AI models locally.
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| Neat! I'd love a column for external disk I/O type. I've been
| trying to build a NAS on a new N100 miniPC but am foiled by the
| fact that the devices all only have USB ports for I/O. And USB is
| not reliable enough to run ZFS with a heavy load (kernel errors).
| I'd love to have something with eSATA or some sort of PCI option.
| ck2 wrote:
| Are old capacitors still a problem on modern PC motherboards?
|
| A decade ago they would only last a decade which would make some
| of these boxes near EOL
| yegle wrote:
| It would be great if the results can be filtered by the CPU
| generation. I'm specifically interested in replacing my 8th Gen
| mini PC and won't want to buy anything older than 8th Gen.
| ilikepi wrote:
| Seconded. You can do this on eBay by choosing specific CPU
| models, but it would be really helpful to filter more broadly.
| "Intel 8th gen" for sure, but it could also be useful to be
| able to combine that with, say, "Intel -T series" or "Intel
| i5".
| bschmidt1 wrote:
| I've been using a $35 rpi4 for years, it's been a significantly
| better experience and cost ($0 after initial purchase) than any
| abstracted PaaS/IaaS I ever tried, and performance is
| significantly better than the free or hobby tiers. With no need
| for regional deploys or to have devs contributing from all over,
| there's not a huge need for cloud. Also kinda nice knowing all my
| customer data and other PI is at my house instead of at Google's
| or Amazon's house. Remember when Twitter and GitHub were storing
| passwords in plain text for years? So yeah... the peace of mind
| of knowing a 22 y/o at their first job is not making security
| decisions with my data and infra! Let alone the fact these
| companies sell your data including your IP - you agree to it in
| their terms.
|
| Beyond this stuff, I always found the UX of IaaS like
| AWS/GCP/etc. to be a nightmare, particularly the IAM experience.
| Not just navigating their awful dashboard pages, but learning
| their brand-specific jargon, managing service accounts, staying
| up-to-date on latest marketing and service breakdowns for every
| little thing - it quickly takes over your attention (and budget).
| Not to mention, using IaaS feels like devolving from a modern
| developer to an early 00s IT specialist. AWS feels less like
| "infrastructure" and more like a modern take on cPanel but with
| far less visibility/control over the server.
|
| I digress... in 2021 I copy/pasted my "mono-server" setup from
| Heroku over to the Pi 4 with vanilla Raspbian and it's been
| running 24/7/365 ever since. It powers 15+ APIs/backends
| including a booking engine for a local business in SF, some real-
| time socket servers for games, and there's both a SQL (postgres)
| and NoSQL (mongo) server running too. I attached a touch screen
| that shows the console output in fullscreen, and I velcro it to
| my wall. It looks like a smartphone charging on my wall or a
| smart thermostat or something, but it's nice to be able to walk
| up and see how things are doing. Feels better than checking any
| dashboard.
|
| I've had to restart it only twice over the years. A couple times
| it just stopped responding to requests, though didn't appear to
| be frozen. I could stop it and npm start again but nothing. When
| this happens, have to fully restart and run IPTABLES stuff again
| to put it back online. However - that's mere minutes spent each
| year rather than spending significant time every single day in an
| IaaS or PaaS.
|
| Thanks for sharing this awesome list, I'm due for an upgrade
| pretty soon and I am so glad to see so many low cost options. My
| hope is that more developers get into these mini PCs around the
| world, and I imagine a future where the Big Cloud providers play
| a much smaller more specific role (government data, public domain
| computing) rather than being the de facto platform for
| hobby/startup projects. Even things like regional deployments and
| distributed/"serverless" computing can be accomplished with
| networks and proxying without giving it all away to a major cloud
| provider.
| martin_a wrote:
| Are those boxes powerful enough and a sensible solution to get a
| little NAS up and running?
| bityard wrote:
| Depends on what "a little NAS" means to you, and what
| interfaces you need. But in general, most any PC made in the
| last 20 years would work for as simple and small storage
| server.
| martin_a wrote:
| Well, something like network mounted 4 TB of space for
| photos, some movies, stuff like that?!?
| gkfasdfasdf wrote:
| Very nice! Would be nice to filter by NVMe as well. Also, one of
| the listings didn't come with a power adapter which was some
| custom lenovo thing. Finally, you totally should include your
| affiliate link.
| jll29 wrote:
| I like your prototype, and people are already giving fantastic
| hints to make this even better; information about the geographic
| location of the offer would be my priority (EU).
|
| This is particularly useful from an environmental point of view -
| all these machines can serve a good purpose for decades to come.
| Mini PCs use less energy, and every used machine re-used means
| one PC less built, saving minerals and energy.
|
| I recently installed a DELL Micro-PC, which I intended as an
| X11-Terminal. It turns out that it's also a fine machine for most
| local work like editing and email (except machine learning and
| heavy development work), so more beefy machines can stay off.
| tracker1 wrote:
| A lot of these things are pretty great for general use, home
| server, game emulation and htpc duties. From the N100 at the
| relatively inexpensive, to the Ryzen 8000 series at the mid-range
| with top tier cpu capabilities and decent igpu to the relatively
| high end monsters.
|
| Except for gaming duties, if someone wants a desktop experience,
| monitor, kb, mouse then mini pcs are awesome.
| htk wrote:
| I had a laptop running Windows for 12 years as my home server,
| hidden in a closet. It ran a couple of c# apps as a service and
| was an ftp server as well. Last month I decided to buy a
| raspberry pi (4B 2GB) to scratch multiple itches (arm processor,
| linux, low power consumption) and it replaced the server without
| a hitch, and better than I thought!
|
| No weird splash screens from windows after updates, 2GB is vast
| for me when running headless, dotnet apps ported with minimal
| effort, and the list goes on. Only downside is the USB can only
| power one external 2.5" hdd, and I didn't want to add a powered
| usb hub.
| shortformblog wrote:
| Given how dominant AMD-based options are from a new machine
| standpoint (you can get a pretty good 5000-series U-grade
| processor for less than $250 on Amazon) I'm kind of surprised by
| the lack of AMD options on the list. This is a useful idea
| though, but I wonder if the lack of AMD may be hinting at some
| variable that hasn't been considered?
| supertrope wrote:
| Most used PCs for sale started off as business machines. They
| usually buy from the big brands that can provide enterprise
| warranty support and volume discounts. AMD released Ryzen in
| 2017. Add up the time for AMD to convince Dell/HP/Lenovo to
| design, qualify, and release an AMD model. Add the time for
| significant uptake into the market. Finally add three years for
| the AMD PCs to get retired from office use.
| windexh8er wrote:
| This is great! The one thing I'd say is that the market is rife
| with non-mainstream brands. As an example "Beelink" [0] and
| "Minisforum" [1] are very commonly referred to and have a lot of
| great models, but they're not well represented here and often
| times offer better value depending on what the buyer is looking
| for. My recommendation would be to expand the vendors into the
| popular non-mainstream brands. Easy ask, but harder to execute on
| your side - so I get it.
|
| Also, AMD is crushing this market - but AMD is pretty under-
| represented here. There are also some great N-series Intel
| machines that are highly popular and you can get on AliExpress
| [2]. Or even more US focused brands under this umbrella like
| Protecli [3]
|
| [0] https://www.bee-link.com/ [1] https://www.minisforum.com/ [2]
| https://www.servethehome.com/fanless-intel-n200-firewall-and...
| [3] https://protectli.com/
| tonymet wrote:
| I took a risk on a Beelink and so far it's been the best piece
| of hardware I've owned. Affordable, quiet, reliable, excellent
| performance, versatile for development & light gaming.
|
| I did a thorough audit for bloat- spam- & mal-ware due to their
| reputation, and it came up much cleaner IMO than my HP.
|
| Given that they compete in price with Raspberry pi with far
| more capability, everyone should have one.
| sam2426679 wrote:
| Agreed! Using a beelink as an htpc, and its been phenomenal.
| biomcgary wrote:
| The daily driver I am using to write this post is a Beelink
| with Linux installed. Very happy with it. Switched out the
| original 128GB SSD with a 1TB SSD. FFMPEG and light gaming
| run fine. My only minor regret is not starting with more
| memory, but I could probably switch that if I was motivated
| enough.
| windexh8er wrote:
| I've got both Beelink and Minisforum units running Linux as
| daily drivers. Great platform for my kids to learn Linux on
| as the hardware is well supported. Also great for SFF
| gaming rigs and platform emulation - especially with the
| graphics horsepower native to the newer AMD procs.
|
| But, yes - smart to just max these systems out right away.
| Most easily support 64GB which is more than enough for
| almost all use cases. I'm hoping that AMD continues to
| develop for optimizing local model usage. Currently that's
| the only area that Apple's Unified architecture really
| shines over these. If I could run reasonably sized models
| on these that would open a number of additional use cases.
| pks016 wrote:
| I'm using Beelink SER 6 pro from the last couple of years. It
| has been great; no issues so far. Got it for cheap in one of
| the sales.
| snowAbstraction wrote:
| Two months in and I'm a happy Beelink customer too. My kids
| mostly use it for Minecraft.
| squarefoot wrote:
| > The one thing I'd say is that the market is rife with non-
| mainstream brands.
|
| Brands in the far east are quite different and less important
| than in western markets; to me it seems there are say 5
| manufacturers that build OEM products that 30 will relabel with
| their brand and put into their box, then give to 1000 sellers,
| each one running like 30 shops on Aliexpress, Ebay and Amazon.
| Numbers are totally made up of course, the point is that the
| name isn't that important over there as the very same product
| can be (and often is) rebranded in many different ways.
| kjs3 wrote:
| I have a Protecli 4-port firewall. It's the second one I've
| bought for this. It's really been excellent from a
| cost/performance standpoint.
| windexh8er wrote:
| It is! I manage a bunch of these running Proxmox with
| virtualized firewall and edge compute via containers and LXC.
| Great platforms for the job and can manage them effectively
| via Tailscale without having to open anything up or leverage
| legacy VPN.
| JamesSwift wrote:
| Had good experiences with a few beelinks, but recently picked
| up a minisforum and have had a bunch of weird BIOS issues (and
| their BIOS is a really bizarre custom UEFI thing).
|
| Waiting to RMA now, but I've seen a lot of similar "weird BIOS
| bugs" after searching for help on my issue.
| internet101010 wrote:
| Love my Minisforum MS-01. 3x m.2 slots, supports 96gb ram, 2x
| 10g ports, 2x 2.5g ports, and has a pcie slot for things like
| external hba or small gpu.
|
| A lot of people buying mini pcs would rather go with AMD but
| are stuck with Intel due to the need for Quick Sync in order to
| transcode Plex.
| windexh8er wrote:
| Exactly this. I'm stuck on Intel QuickSync for home media and
| local NVR. The N200 is also packaged up nice for home
| firewall / edge compute. I'm running Proxmox on one with
| hardware passthru of NICs for OpnSense firewalling. Supports
| 32GB of RAM and allows for a ton of containers or LXC on the
| edge.
| metadat wrote:
| Does AMD really not have anything comparable?
|
| This is the first I've heard of Quick Sync (and admittedly I
| could always be clueless, I'm surprised to only encounter it
| now).
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I have a Beelink and the build quality is impressively good,
| but my word their website is terrible. They recently redesigned
| it and it somehow actually got worse.
|
| They make no attempt to explain the difference between the
| various model names, leaving to you go through them one by one
| until you figure things out. It's so bad.
| ornornor wrote:
| Pretty neat! Any plans to make it work for people not living in
| the US too?
| blueferret wrote:
| What a great idea! I love checking DiskPrices; the structure does
| lend well to mini-PCs (another interest of mine). Bookmarking
| this for my next shouldn't-grab-this-but-price-is-too-good
| impulse buy.
| bityard wrote:
| I'm guessing this was inspired by https://labgopher.com?
|
| A lot of these are not what I would call "mini," but I like the
| idea.
|
| Is it a static list of manufacturers/models? If so, I feel like
| it would be worth putting that on GitHub so that the community
| can help maintain it. For example, I know there many fanless PCs
| on the market but the site is only showing me three and they are
| all fairly expensive.
|
| Any plans to add websites besides eBay? When I am hunting down a
| SFF PC for a project, I generally try to at least look over what
| is on offer from AliExpress, NewEgg (clearance), Dell
| Refurbished, Lenovo Refurbished, Microcenter, and a variety of
| websites for second-hand business IT recyclers.
| ensignavenger wrote:
| This is great, but the prices aren't accurate for the products
| listed. As an example, I filtered by the cheapest 64GB model,
| clicked on the link, and found that to actually get the 64GB it
| was multiple times the cost listed on the site. This was because
| if ebay's "variant" option, which is often misused by vendors.
|
| I don't know if the ebay API allows you to check for variants to
| ensure that the price you are listing is the price for the actual
| variant listed or not?
| inversetelecine wrote:
| Also in my quick glance, it didn't account for shipping costs
| either.
| atlgator wrote:
| A filter on socket/gen would be useful. Otherwise, it's a great
| tool! Thanks for sharing.
| winrid wrote:
| I've always wanted to do something like this but for laptops too,
| and allow sorting by passmark score to find the best values.
| dbs wrote:
| Neat. Can you add a filter for international buyers? Non-us
| catchmeifyoucan wrote:
| This looks great! I love the Cragislist like UI for this!
| otterpro wrote:
| I'm waiting for next year, when the prices for old (intel 6th gen
| and below) mini-pc are expected to plummet, due to Windows 10
| becoming obsolete. It would be sad to see them becoming e-waste,
| but hopefully some of us will grab them as they make great linux-
| based home servers.
|
| Also, I have bought a lot of mini-pc and those with Intel 6th gen
| CPU seems to offer the best bang for bucks, at least for my
| needs. (I don't really need powerful system, since I"m mostly
| using them for dedicated obs streaming or light video encoding or
| homeassistant).
| rmac wrote:
| can we get a highcostminipcs plz
| j45 wrote:
| This is a great idea. I ahve a similar set of searches on eBay
| for when I was buying these things.
|
| You should consider putting some affiliate links in so this
| continues to exist and grow.
|
| You are helping people save money, which doesn't cost them
| anything, and if anything makes ebay make less.
|
| I have a ton of ideas for htis that I use to narrow it down even
| more - starting with the CPU can be a good place. Generation,
| wattage, etc.
| whall6 wrote:
| + $45 shipping :/
| bloomingeek wrote:
| I wonder if this is kind of a semi-panic selling because of
| Windows 10 supposedly going away next October 2025? (Except MS
| holding us hostage for a yearly fee!)
|
| Fantastic gathering of used PC's, but buyer beware, there are a
| lot of options that are worth studying before purchasing.
| styfle wrote:
| I haven't bought a Windows PC in 10 years so I thought it was
| time to upgrade the old tower I had in the closet.
|
| I stumbled across Mini PCs and was surprised at how cheap they
| were so I brought one.
|
| Turns out they were lying about the clock speed, citing 3.4Ghz
| when it was actually 1.7GHz.
|
| I contacted their support to say the description was wrong but
| they said it was right. Don't buy from KAMRUI.
| art-not wrote:
| refund/chargeback?
| bloomingeek wrote:
| On eBay, always check each individual seller for their
| return/refund rules. Most give 30 days, you pay return
| shipping, but not all.
| throwaway4220 wrote:
| I'm fascinated that a static site generator makes this! Is this a
| new concept?
| mikeocool wrote:
| This is great --- my world has mostly been Mac laptops and cloud
| servers for the last 15 years, and recently decided I wanted a
| physical server in my office to use as a dev box.
|
| I ended picking up a 5 year old Dell Optiplex SFF on eBay for
| $75. I added a few sticks of RAM and a new SSD, installed Ubuntu
| server, and it's been great. Super fun and easy to pop open and
| work on.
|
| I sort of want to start grabbing these for anyone I know who
| needs a basic computer.
| squarefoot wrote:
| I still didn't move my main PC to a mini one because it's not
| that old and I don't feel like relegating it under a table, but
| migrating everything else to mini PCs (music, servers, firewalls,
| media players, ...) was the best choice ever; even the FreeBSD
| based NAS runs wonderfully on one of these small boxes. Unless
| one needs specific interfacing capabilities (GPIOs for instance)
| or serious performance which would need optimized airflow that
| only a bigger case could allow, the Mini PC form factor wins
| almost everywhere.
|
| Great site, I'd love if it also took data from EU countries Ebay
| sites too, as buying from the US from here would inflate costs
| too much when adding overseas shipping and taxes.
| butz wrote:
| It would be very helpful to know which PCs support power over
| USB-C and video, e.g. I can connect it to display with single
| cable.
| dotBen wrote:
| Lenovo ThinkCentre M Series (minis) are an absolute sleeper and
| way better value than Raspbery Pis. I run one in my home network
| closet with a bunch of docker containers on for home networking,
| crawler projects that need to run from a non-datacenter IP
| address, homelab experiments, etc.
|
| Cost me $100 'used' (open box), SSD, decent RAM and even a copy
| of Windows I didn't need. Install *nix, run it headless, good to
| go.
|
| You can go cheaper but at a certain point who cares if it's $80
| for an unknown brand or $100 for Lenovo, etc.
|
| Small form factor, it can tuck in with wherever you store your
| router, or buy an aftermarket rack kit if you run rackmount
| network components like I do. OR 3D print one
| https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4769452
|
| Eg https://www.ebay.com/itm/186591932407 - this is a great
| project server that can probably run tons of docker containers
| (depending on what you are doing).
| BizarroLand wrote:
| Just know that Lenovo has set up a bootlock on these systems if
| a non-branded wifi card is detected in them. If you're just
| plugging in an ethernet cable and tossing it in a closet,
| you're fine, but upgrades are very limited.
| rpcope1 wrote:
| It would be nice to see which if any of these support coreboot.
| There's a big hole that was left behind when PC Engines left the
| market for a reasonably open low power x86 system that runs
| coreboot and has a much lower possibility of baked in back doors
| while sporting the sort of hardware that you can just plug in and
| leave alone for years on end.
| hnuser435 wrote:
| Yes! I'd love to be able to filter by systems capable of
| running open source firmware.
| pmlnr wrote:
| I've been running my services on a single Lenovo M600 tiny for
| years now. Low power, fanless, runs great.
| brk wrote:
| Why is PC BIOS still such an absolute shit show? Seemingly
| similar products from the same brand will have wildly different
| BIOS options and functions. Want to auto power on? Good luck with
| support for that being documented anywhere, and even if it is
| documented, the odds that the actual unit supports it is 50/50 at
| best it seems. Want to customize boot options? You may or may not
| get the options you need. Fan speed controls, clocking options.
| Every unit seemingly has been shipped with its own unique set of
| BIOS options supported, no two are ever the same.
| Peaches4Rent wrote:
| Any chance this can have a country filter?
| bhelkey wrote:
| The main place I wanted a small PC is in my entertainment stand.
|
| I tried using such a PC in my living room as a media console. My
| plan was to use steam's 'Big Picture Mode's along with an Xbox
| controller to give a console like experience.
|
| Instead of buying console games, I would get access to my
| extensive steam library. Games not on steam can be manually added
| to the steam launcher.
|
| In practice, I ran into enough problems to abandon the idea. The
| controller experience didn't have enough support. A Bluetooth
| keyboard/mouse combo helped but eventually I just went back to
| using a Chromecast.
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