[HN Gopher] Show HN: Homemade automated solar concentrator
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       Show HN: Homemade automated solar concentrator
        
       Hi HN!  I quit my job two years ago to have more time to work on my
       side projects.  The main one is an automated solar concentrator.
       I've just open-sourced it, it's not perfect nor finished, and I
       still have a lot of ideas for further development, but I'm
       interested in knowing what you think of it.  There are many
       applications where concentrated solar power could be a viable
       environmental and economic solution, I hope this technology will
       one day be more widely used.  Feel free to give any feedback and
       ask questions.
        
       Author : remipch
       Score  : 245 points
       Date   : 2024-08-29 10:14 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | Am I understanding correctly that the angle between each mirror
       | segment and the backboard is fixed once during construction and
       | then not dynamic?
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Exactly
         | 
         | This has the advantage of requiring fewer motors (only two
         | motors for the entire panel) instead of two motors per mirror.
         | 
         | The disadvantage is that the light is only focused for a few
         | hours a day.
        
           | cheschire wrote:
           | Another disadvantage being that your distance between the
           | mirror system and the target must be fixed the same each time
           | you setup.
           | 
           | This isn't an inherently bad thing. As a marketable product
           | this would imply a one-time manual alignment for all 48
           | mirrors but cheaper lifetime maintenance costs.
        
             | regularfry wrote:
             | If you were going to sell a kit, having 48 sets of 3d
             | printed mirror mounts of the right length for each position
             | wouldn't be out of the question. Just a screw-on clip with
             | the right length standoff for each mirror corner would be
             | all you'd need. You could conceivably have different sets
             | with different focal lengths.
             | 
             | I don't think it would be too fiddly done that way but it
             | might take some work to make fine adjustments
             | straightforward.
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | It is possible to make a mechanical angle bisector. Think of
           | a compass for drawing circles but with a 3rd arm bisecting
           | the angle. If you attach the bisector normal to a mirror, you
           | can point one leg at the sun and the other at a target. An
           | array of these would require linkages to aim all inputs
           | parallel toward the sun and all outputs fixed toward the
           | target - the outputs don't have to be parallel just have each
           | pointing at the target. 2-axis actuation to move all mirrors
           | as needed. Not sure if this has ever been tried, it's just an
           | idea I had some time ago.
        
             | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
             | This is a really cool concept! The term used for connecting
             | mirrors to rotate together is a ganged heliostat. Most
             | papers about ganged heliostats don't do anything fancy like
             | what you describe, but there are some patents that show a
             | nice way of connecting the rods to give the correct angles
             | using a slightly different concept than what you are
             | describing [1]. I previously made a visualization of how
             | that concept works (click and drag the sun) [2].
             | 
             | I've not seen exactly what you describe published anywhere,
             | but it sounds very smular to something I thought about as
             | well. See this 2d illustration [2]. Is this the same as
             | what you are describing?
             | 
             | I had a masters student try to make it mechanically. It
             | turns out that though it's an elegant concept, you still
             | end up with quite a few moving parts so it's a bit tricky.
             | 
             | [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060060188
             | 
             | [2] https://folk.ntnu.no/haakonjj/ganged_heliostat_illustra
             | tion....
             | 
             | [3] https://folk.ntnu.no/haakonjj/ganged_heliostat_gear/
        
       | conkeisterdoor wrote:
       | This is so cool, thanks for sharing! If I had a yard/space to
       | build one of these, I would totally try rigging one up to drive a
       | little heat engine.
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Thanks for your nice comment.
         | 
         | Yes it's definitely fun to build one and use that free energy
         | from the sun.
         | 
         | I was particularly happy to eat my first solar gratin :-)
        
       | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
       | Cool work! I do research in nonimaging optics, the optics of
       | achieving high concentration ratios (or wide tolerances to
       | errors) in solar concentrators.
       | 
       | I like that you are implementing closed-loop control. This is all
       | the rage also in large-scale heliostat fields. Most traditional
       | heliostats are controlled using open loop, which places very
       | strict requirements on both the mechanical structure, the
       | actuators, and on the kinematic model, leading to expensive and
       | very stiff heliostats. People are therefore moving towards
       | cheaper heliostats where the tracking precision is achieved
       | through closed-loop control. Implementing closed-loop control is
       | a little bit more tricky when you have overlapping focal spots
       | from thousands of mirrors, but there are approaches that are
       | being developed, e.g. having cameras around the target looking
       | back out over the heliostat field (developed by Heliogen among
       | others).
       | 
       | You mention the challenge of light only being focused for a few
       | hours per day. This is also a problem with large helisotat
       | fields, and is also a field of active research. There's a group
       | at University of Arizona with Professor Roger Angel developing
       | heliostats that actively deform through the day to keep the
       | perfect shape, and there's also an Australian company
       | (Heliosystems) building heliostats that passively deform from
       | gravity to keep as correct shape as possible.
       | 
       | When you are only using a single heliostat, as in your project,
       | you could also consider building it as a Scheffler reflector -
       | placing it on a single-axis polar-aligned tracking axis that
       | passes through your target. Then it only requires single-axis
       | tracking through the day, with some (possibly manual) seasonal
       | adjusting.
       | 
       | I am very happy to see that you are highlighting the inherent
       | risks in concentrated sunlight. There are lots of stories about
       | people accidentally settings stuff on fire if the tracking doen't
       | track correctly.
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Thank you very much for your kind and detailed reply!
         | 
         | Indeed, the closed-loop control was the initial idea which
         | convinced me that it would be possible to build the mechanical
         | parts by hand with common tools. In other words, the software
         | "smartness" compensates for the mechanical "ugliness".
         | 
         | Another initial idea was to do multi-panels (several orientable
         | panels) with a single camera looking at the target. Indeed,
         | it's not easy, so I finally went back and decided to finish and
         | release something with a single panel.
         | 
         | Nevertheless, I have some ideas to do multi-panels with a few
         | more cameras. I would like to work on them in the near future.
         | 
         | Thank you for all the references, I will spend time to explore
         | them.
         | 
         | There is also a company that uses vacuum to adjust the mirror
         | shape, I'll try to find it and post it here.
         | 
         | I wanted to emphasize the inherent risk because my project is
         | not a finished product, but a work-in-progress/proof-of-
         | concept.
        
           | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
           | Yeah exactly!
           | 
           | I like your cable-drive concept by the way. Did you describe
           | it in more details anywhere? Heliogen were also developing a
           | cable-drive system for their commercial heliostats, but I
           | don't know if they are still working on it.
           | 
           | How are you getting the right mirror orientation for each
           | mirror (aka canting)? Custom spacers for each mirror?
           | 
           | One trick for closed-loop control with many heliostats/panels
           | is to have a few cameras surrounding the receiver. When they
           | look back at the mirrors, they will see the circumsolar
           | radiation (how the sky gets brighter as you get closer to the
           | sun). By comparing the brightness of the sky at different
           | cameras, you can estimate which cameras is "closest" to
           | seeing the real sun, and get an estimate for the real
           | position of the sun.
        
             | remipch wrote:
             | > I like your cable-drive concept by the way. Did you
             | describe it in more details anywhere?
             | 
             | I didn't take the time to describe the cable-bot concept in
             | detail.
             | 
             | I modeled almost all the mechanical parts with OpenSCAD,
             | but I struggled to model the cable itself.
             | 
             | In the "mechanics" README [0] you can click on any image to
             | view it in an online 3D viewer.
             | 
             | The following note in the same README tries to explain how
             | the cable is used :                   Each cable is
             | actually wrapped around the motor axis, then passed through
             | the pulley and tied to a fixed ring in the corner of the
             | panel.
             | 
             | English is not my first language, is this sentence clear
             | enough ?
             | 
             | You can see these elements in the main 3D viewer [1]
             | 
             | > How are you getting the right mirror orientation for each
             | mirror (aka canting)?
             | 
             | I use one bolt that pulls the mirror holder in the center
             | and 3 bolts that push it in the corners.
             | 
             | By screwing or unscrewing the corner bolts you can
             | precisely orient each mirror independently.
             | 
             | The "panel_board_exploded" view tries to show this [2]
             | 
             | > One trick for closed-loop control with many
             | heliostats/panels is to have a few cameras surrounding the
             | receiver.
             | 
             | Super clever, thanks for the explanation!
             | 
             | I think it might be tricky to calibrate.
             | 
             | [0] https://github.com/remipch/solar_concentrator/blob/mast
             | er/me...
             | 
             | [1] https://remipch.github.io/solar_concentrator/view_3d.ht
             | ml?mo...
             | 
             | [2] https://remipch.github.io/solar_concentrator/view_3d.ht
             | ml?mo...
        
               | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
               | > Each cable is actually wrapped around the motor axis,
               | then passed through the pulley and tied to a fixed ring
               | in the corner of the panel.
               | 
               | Thanks, when seeing the video again now it makes sense! I
               | didn't catch the counterweight the first time I saw it.
               | Nice! In the Heliogen concept I mentioned previously they
               | got around having to use a counterweight by attaching the
               | other side of the cable to another part of the panel,
               | such that the cable length stays approximately constant.
               | Then they used a spring to compensate for the small
               | changes in cable length that are inherent to the
               | geometry.
               | 
               | > I use one bolt that pulls the mirror holder in the
               | center and 3 bolts that push it in the corners. By
               | screwing or unscrewing the corner bolts you can precisely
               | orient each mirror independently.
               | 
               | Nice! Even in large heliostat fields it is often done in
               | a similar way. It becomes quite labor intensive when you
               | have thousands of heliostats in a field, with 10+
               | segments each, so there are ongoing efforts to find ways
               | to do it automatically or to get around the need for
               | doing it in the first place.
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | FYI, this is the "vacuum adjustable focus mirror" I
           | mentioned:
           | 
           | https://lm.solar/order/4-square-rigid-aluminum-composite-
           | mir...
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | Speaking of risks and fire, is there a known limit to the
         | temperature achievable by concentration? I was wondering if I
         | could melt a piece of tungsten with this method.
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | I think it depends on the mirror area. The more mirrors, the
           | more power. The more power, the higher the temperature will
           | be.
           | 
           | Anyway, tungsten melts at 3422degC, I don't know if it's
           | feasible.
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | Imagine we built a giant concentrator in space so we can
             | melt tungsten without having to worry about containment!
        
           | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
           | Yes, and it is super-interesting!
           | 
           | The fundamental limit is given by the 2nd law of
           | thermodynamics - you can never reach higher temperatures than
           | the surface of the sun, or around 5800 K. We have the
           | atmosphere that absorbs and scatters some of the light, so on
           | the surface of the earth it is a bit lower, but not by a huge
           | amount.
           | 
           | This means that there is a fundamental limit to how small and
           | intense you can make the focal spot in a solar concentrator.
           | The limit is around ~45 MW/m2 or 45000 "suns" (which is
           | plenty high, but far from infinite).
           | 
           | Concentrators used for eletricity generation use much lower
           | concentration than this, on the order of 25 suns to 1000 suns
           | depending on the type. There are also solar furnaces designed
           | for reaching much higher concentration by using a different
           | type of optics. The most impressive one is the huge Odeillo
           | solar furnace [1]. I would guess that they could melt
           | tungsten, but I have not actually run the numbers.
           | 
           | I did a talk last week about a concept we are developing for
           | reaching furnace-level concentration ratios with conventional
           | heliostats [2].
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odeillo_solar_furnace
           | 
           | [2]
           | https://folk.ntnu.no/haakonjj/talks/2024-08-19-nonimaging-
           | fr...
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | The thing that I can't wrap my head around is that if the
             | concentrator "pumps" power into an object, and say you can
             | somehow insulate it to stop the losses, how is this limit
             | not unbounded? Where does the energy go once we reach the
             | cap?
             | 
             | Does the black body radiation send the energy back out?
        
               | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
               | > Does the black body radiation send the energy back out?
               | 
               | Exactly, this is the issue. If an object is able to
               | absorb sunlight, it is also able to emit blackbody
               | radition back towards the sun. When the temperature limit
               | is reached, these two exactly cancel each other. The
               | object will emit blackbody radiation with the same
               | brightness as the surface of the sun.
               | 
               | Another way to look at it is to imagine yourself standing
               | at the center of the concentrated sunlight and looking
               | out towards the concentrator. The concentrator makes the
               | sun look "bigger" from your perspective, and this is what
               | makes the sunlight concentrated. The limit to this effect
               | is if the sun fills all directions in the whole
               | hemisphere above you. Now it will be as if you are
               | standing on the surface of the sun, and all you can see
               | in any direction is sunlight. Normally, the solar disc
               | fills 1/45000th of the hemisphere above you here on
               | earth, thus the limit of 45000 suns concentration.
        
               | foobarian wrote:
               | That's a very insightful way to look at it, thank you!
               | 
               | ps. It's like making a VPN tunnel to the surface of the
               | sun :-)
        
               | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
               | > ps. It's like making a VPN tunnel to the surface of the
               | sun :-)
               | 
               | Wow, I love that! Great analogy!
        
               | remipch wrote:
               | Nice explanation, thanks
        
               | micw wrote:
               | Thank you so much. It's the first time I do understand
               | the _why_ of that fact.
               | 
               | But I could build up a lot of solar panels and use the
               | electricity to heat up an oven more than the surface of
               | the sun, right? Is that "cheating" in terms of thermo
               | dynamics?
        
               | hakonjdjohnsen wrote:
               | Great question, and this shows why we could never get a
               | 100% efficient solar panel. Otherwise your scheme would
               | brak thermodynamics.
               | 
               | The most efficient possible way to convert sunlight to
               | electricity is ~86% and is related to the second law of
               | thermodynamics. So we use the heat flow from a hot
               | reservoir (sun) to a cold reservoir (earth) and are able
               | to convert some of that heat into work (electricity)
               | which can then be used to heat something else to a higher
               | temperature without breaking the second law.
        
               | p1mrx wrote:
               | > I could build up a lot of solar panels and use the
               | electricity to heat up an oven more than the surface of
               | the sun, right?
               | 
               | Yes, this would be like using a hydroelectric dam to
               | power a fountain that sprays higher than the initial
               | reservoir. Machines can convert a large amount of low-
               | quality energy into a small amount of high-quality
               | energy, even when passive components (e.g. mirrors or
               | pipes) cannot.
        
               | IncreasePosts wrote:
               | Yes...in the situation where somehow the oven became
               | hotter than the surface of the sun, then the oven would
               | start heating up the sun.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Wikipedia says a max temperature of 3500C, which is above
             | Tungsten's melting point. Graphite is the only thing I know
             | of with a melting point above that at 1atm, but I'm not a
             | chemist so I'm sure there are other things.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | Check out: https://what-if.xkcd.com/145/
        
           | adrianN wrote:
           | Platinum was first melted using concentrated solar iirc.
        
         | algo_trader wrote:
         | > with some (possibly manual) seasonal adjusting.
         | 
         | Any pointers for floating PV seasonal mechanism?
         | 
         | With a 5m high prism, and panels along ONE face, how do you get
         | seasonal adjustment of the panels tilt angle.
         | 
         | An adjustable/inflatable ballast seems the simplest?
        
       | zo1 wrote:
       | Awesome project OP! Especially the power comparison. Who would
       | have thought that you can achieve 1kW of energy from 1m2.
       | 
       | On a side note and in a similar direction. Would it be feasible
       | to make a solar concentrator that heats a molten-salt reactor
       | that powers a turbine engine? On a small-ish scale though, such
       | that it'd be achievable as a back-yard reactor?
       | 
       | So the description I used above was my memory-driven
       | understanding of it. But here is what I actually meant:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower
       | 
       | Edit. I went down a little rabbit-hole, HN. This is what I
       | eventually found about small-scale energy generation using solar-
       | concentration.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dish-stirling-at-odeillo....
       | 
       | Could be a semi-viable alternative to solar, perhaps? Though
       | cost-wise, it's probably quite high now that solar-panels and
       | their auxillary hardware have been commoditized so much.
        
         | argiopetech wrote:
         | 1kw/m^2 is the "standard" rule of thumb for heat energy from
         | solar irradiation. I'm unsure whether OP has done the
         | calculation (in which case, credit to a well built system) or
         | simply cited the standard rule.
         | 
         | There are some large Stirling engines out there that operate on
         | hot oil. With a large diameter piston, quite a bit of torque
         | can be generated with even small [?]T. Oil can be heated as
         | with traditional solar water heaters (i.e., with no
         | concentration), though concentration doesn't hurt.
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | I have developed a simple simulator [0] to estimate the
           | theoretical power received by the target for a given hardware
           | configuration:
           | 
           | - the global position on the planet
           | 
           | - the date and time
           | 
           | - the size and position of some background elements
           | 
           | - the number, size and position of the panels in the grid
           | 
           | The solar power estimation uses :
           | 
           | - the Python code provided in this article [1] to estimate
           | position of the sun (thank you John Clark Craig)
           | 
           | - the simplified formula [2] to estimate the direct
           | insolation from the sun position
           | 
           | - a custom light projection implemented using Panda3D game
           | engine [3]
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/remipch/solar_concentrator/blob/master
           | /so...
           | 
           | [1] https://levelup.gitconnected.com/python-sun-position-for-
           | sol...
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_insolation#Simplifie
           | d_f...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.panda3d.org/
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Yes, there are several industrial applications that use a solar
         | concentrator to drive a turbine engine or a Stirling engine.
         | 
         | I'm not sure it's a viable way to produce electricity on a
         | small scale because:
         | 
         | - high thermodynamic efficiency requires high temperature
         | difference
         | 
         | - photovoltaic panels are mass-produced and increasingly
         | efficient
         | 
         | Personally, I think small scale concentrated solar power is
         | most useful for applications that require direct heat (cooking,
         | desalination, foundries).
         | 
         | In these cases, photovoltaics have a lower efficiency and a
         | shorter lifetime.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Solar panels are _really_ cheap. Like, comparable to a mirror
         | of the same size cheap.
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | A 15cm x 15cm mirror used in this project cost 1EUR.
           | 
           | That's 48EUR/m2, I couldn't find a photovoltaic panel at that
           | price.
           | 
           | Add to that:
           | 
           | - photovoltaic efficiency is about 20%, while such mirrors
           | reflect 90% of the energy
           | 
           | - photovoltaic panels have an average lifespan of 20 years,
           | while mirrors do not wear out.
           | 
           | Anyway, we're comparing apples and oranges, because we have
           | to add the mechanical installations, which are very different
           | depending on the specific application.
           | 
           | I'm not against photovoltaic in general, I just think that
           | for some applications there are some interesting
           | alternatives.
        
             | newprint wrote:
             | Oh mirrors do wear out...
        
               | remipch wrote:
               | Oh yes, they do. I can be a little naive sometimes :-)
               | 
               | I still naively think that we could make mirrors
               | completely encased in glass to limit their degradation
               | (pure speculation here).
        
               | monkmartinez wrote:
               | Which would make the cost of each mirror higher, right?
               | Additional processing will naturally increase the cost
               | per unit.
               | 
               | By the way, super cool project and thank you for sharing.
               | My experiments with concentrating sun power when I was a
               | child were directly related to the spontaneous combustion
               | of insects. Still making amends for the number of ant
               | hills my brother and I cooked with the sun.
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | > That's 48EUR/m2, I couldn't find a photovoltaic panel at
             | that price.
             | 
             | Still apples to oranges but, $68 for > 2sqm at the factory,
             | probably closer to $100 at retail:
             | 
             | https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/144cells-Jinko-
             | Solar-...
             | 
             | And in Europe: https://venturama-solar.de/produkt/ja-solar-
             | jam54s30-425w-lr...
        
       | cheschire wrote:
       | If you make a large (1+ meter diameter) curved lump out of wet
       | sand, you can use that to lay a fiberglass parabola which could
       | then be chrome plated, painted, or otherwise finished on the
       | inside of the parabola after it's cured.
       | 
       | This would allow you to further concentrate the solar power
       | beyond the current 48x limitation.
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Good idea, thank you!
         | 
         | However a 20cm x 20cm square spot can be better for some
         | applications.
         | 
         | If you want to cook something it's best to spread the heat over
         | the entire baking sheet to ensure even cooking.
        
           | cheschire wrote:
           | For the specific use case of cooking, I think the problem you
           | will run into is that solar power is inconsistent which is
           | problematic for cooking via direct heat as you tend to need
           | consistent temperatures.
           | 
           | So instead I would look at indirect heat. By super-
           | concentrating the full parabolic area into a single point,
           | you can heat cooking stones which will radiate heat more
           | consistently even when clouds momentarily block the sun.
           | 
           | Using a simple store-bought pizza stone suspended at a
           | 45-degree angle above your food, the homemade solar "laser"
           | (said in Dr. Evil's voice) could be targeted on the
           | underside, directly above the food.
           | 
           | Placing firebrick or other insulating stone directly on the
           | opposite side of the pizza stone would help ensure that
           | minimal energy is lost through the rear.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | Decades ago, my brother used the inside of a large umbrella
         | covered in aluminum foil. A small grill attached to the handle
         | was used to grill hotdogs. Not sure how he had it mounted in
         | the correct orientation though. In this case, imperfect surface
         | shape may have been a good thing.
        
       | fuzzy_biscuit wrote:
       | Hopefully this isn't a stupid question as I know very little
       | about solar, but could the risk/danger be reduced with some kind
       | of diffusion layer behind the target to "de-concentrate" the
       | light in the event of a failure?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | The risk includes targeting the wrong thing, or stepping into
         | the beam in front of the target. A non-flammable backstop for
         | the target is kind of a base level safety measure.
        
       | ryandvm wrote:
       | Very cool. Curious if you have looked into non-imaging (anidolic)
       | solar collectors? My understanding is that they are actually more
       | efficient than mirror or lens based collectors as they do not
       | require precise aiming and are able to collect indirect sunlight
       | as well.
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | I wasn't aware of such systems.
         | 
         | If I understand correctly, their main feature is that they do
         | not focus on a focal point, but instead diffuse the light.
         | 
         | So I'm not sure if it would be applicable to my project.
         | 
         | I need to dig deeper to fully understand how it works exactly,
         | thanks for the hint.
        
       | wycx wrote:
       | Lots of interesting experiments with solar collection here:
       | https://www.youtube.com/@sergiyyurko8668/videos
        
         | remipch wrote:
         | Whaoo, super interesting, thanks for the link.
         | 
         | Some of their projects follow the same idea of a grid of small
         | square mirrors.
         | 
         | However, they choose to put the mirrors on the ground (which is
         | simpler) and move the target at the focal point (which is not
         | simpler).
         | 
         | Good source of inspiration, I will watch their videos.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | Concentrated sunlight is deceptively powerful. We probably all
       | have played with small handheld magnifying glasses to focus the
       | sun to a small spot, burning paper or small wood blocks.
       | 
       | When I was a kid I had a Fresnel lens, probably 2' in diameter,
       | out of an old projector or some similar thing. It would set
       | asphalt on fire. Almost instantly. You could probably weld steel
       | with sunlight, though not very conveniently.
        
         | regularfry wrote:
         | There was a project a few years back to demo 3d printing with
         | solar sintering of desert sand:
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09596...
         | - very neat idea.
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | Very interesting, do you know if there are any actual
           | applications today?
        
             | regularfry wrote:
             | I've not heard of it since, no. It's got some steep hills
             | to climb as a concept before it's a better option for
             | building materials than just pouring more concrete.
        
               | photonthug wrote:
               | Not sure what those hills are, but it's always surprised
               | me that this type of hobby project hasn't been ever been
               | scaled up industrially.
               | 
               | Setting aside applications for moon base 1 and other sci-
               | fi, there's a lot of desert on earth. If the construction
               | method is automatic or even semi automatic, and costs
               | almost no energy, then who cares if it's slow? A legion
               | of robots that can't even make other robots but can make
               | glass bricks from sand seems like it could be paving the
               | Empty Quarter one decade, finishing the glittering glass
               | towers in the next.
        
         | bufferoverflow wrote:
         | Here's a huge solar concentrator that melts thick steel in
         | seconds:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/8tt7RG3UR4c
         | 
         | Action around 1:25
        
           | remipch wrote:
           | Excellent!
           | 
           | Do you know the mirror area used here?
        
           | LikeBeans wrote:
           | I can imagine this would be very useful for water
           | desalination.
        
         | Log_out_ wrote:
         | You can also sinter sand into 3d structures.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptUj8JRAYu8
         | 
         | In theory if you could manufacture lenses and optical fibers,
         | you could 3d print active solar powered structures anywhere
         | where there is enough sun. Imagine a 3d printed little
         | bottlegarden, with a water collector using a heated silicagel
         | cycle printed in situ on mars. Still low atmospheric pressure,
         | but warm and wetter.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | Indeed; I've played around with various concentration methods
         | (along with sun imaging using lenses). My US letter-sized
         | Fresnel lens can easily start a tinder/kindling fire in a few
         | seconds, and I've managed to melt a lot of things accidentally
         | jsut by pointing the lens at the sun for a few seconds when the
         | solar filter was not installed.
        
       | mapt wrote:
       | Unfortunately in 2024 with extremely inexpensive solar cells, I
       | don't see much future for this technology. Even fixed latitude
       | tilt angles are coming into question given the modest cost
       | increases that they create versus a flat or a vertical panel. It
       | costs more to blow glass into vacuum panels than to acquire PV
       | area.
       | 
       | Much of the developing world latched on to solar concentrator
       | water heaters 10, 20, or 30 years ago, and they were common in a
       | backpacking trip through China a decade back. It's good tech,
       | depending on your climate, but it seems to have been superseded.
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | The thermal 'inertia' of concentrated solar power may be cost
         | competitive with PV solar and batteries.
         | 
         | You can use the mass of the concentrator target as a thermal
         | battery effectively, as the conversation of sunlight to
         | electrical energy is not instantaneous like solar PV.
        
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