[HN Gopher] Panasonic Toughbook 40
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Panasonic Toughbook 40
Author : fidotron
Score : 88 points
Date : 2024-08-28 16:58 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (connect.na.panasonic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (connect.na.panasonic.com)
| ugh123 wrote:
| >First AI-enabled TOUGHBOOK PC
|
| >(AI)-driven tasks for customers across law enforcement
| departments, federal agencies and utility companies.
|
| What are the applications of law enforcement with AI in the
| field?
| frankfrank13 wrote:
| Likely some simple RAG-based document Q&A (e.g case files,
| statutes, etc).
| eth0up wrote:
| One is writing police reports, according to a recent post on
| HN. Didn't read it though.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41358965
| humptybumpty wrote:
| Ah! A way cut costs.
|
| It's well known that you always need to have two officers in
| a police patrol: one can read and the other one can write.
| acdha wrote:
| Processing media seems useful - have a squad car doing plate
| and face recognition for suspects, voice recognition and
| analysis for anything they're talking about with people, etc.
| all would be things which could be really useful modulo legal
| concerns (e.g. it's probably not a constitutional issue if,
| say, an officer is talking to someone and their laptop is
| pulling up information about people or places mentioned, but
| it'd be a huge issue if they were trying to search people's
| phone data without following legal guidelines).
|
| A really simple one: you know how Apple has a assistive feature
| for hearing impairments which warns users about ambient sounds
| like emergency vehicles or crying babies? I could imagine a
| police force wanting something like that simply to do something
| like logging gunshots, vehicle crashes, etc. and possibly
| triggering an alarm if the officer doesn't say it's okay within
| a short period of time.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Two words: Minority Report :)
| kotaKat wrote:
| Almost zero-to-none that we already have solutions for like
| voice recognition or license plate recognition.
| m463 wrote:
| > What are the applications of law enforcement with AI in the
| field?
|
| "Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply."
| widowlark wrote:
| AI is even better at racial profiling than the police.
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/police-facial-rec...
| wildylion wrote:
| Not exactly law enforcement, but a long time ago in a galaxy
| far, far away we were running local AI to try and spot people
| lost in the wilderness from drone footage.
|
| I imagine same goes for military now...
| narrator wrote:
| 7.4lbs! Unless you're working in construction, or mining, or
| security or something like that, probably better to get something
| else.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| Sometimes you need a self-defense device and laptop all in one.
|
| When you knock a mugger down with one of those, he stays down.
| jcgrillo wrote:
| These ruggedized laptops (I have a Dell variant) are the only
| way to get a sunlight readable display. It's true they're
| heavy.
| eth0up wrote:
| I have the Dell variant too. Great laptop in general, but not
| as rugged as the proper toughbook
| gunapologist99 wrote:
| Dell Rugged vs Dell Rugged Extreme. Rugged Extreme is
| definitely as rugged as a ToughBook, but with that obvious
| very visible tradeoff in weight and size.
| michaelt wrote:
| Yeah - I've used toughbooks in the past, and honestly they're
| 6x more likely to survive being dropped, but also 3x more
| likely to get dropped in the first place because they're so
| heavy.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| Police, EMS, fire service, and military use them. The laptops
| are often mounted inside of the vehicles and need to withstand
| a fair amount of bumping around. A lot of them also
| specifically include RS232 ports to interface with industrial
| equipment as well.
|
| I daily used a semi rugged for a while for shits and giggles.
| Actually wasn't bad to lug around, it had an inbuilt handle
| made it easy. And there was very little guilt about quickly
| slamming the lid shut so moving it around from place to place
| was actually easier then you'd think.
| lagniappe wrote:
| I don't want to contact sales.
| progbits wrote:
| If you click "configure" there are prices. Seems to start at
| $4500 for lowest specs.
| rx_tx wrote:
| > Integrated tetra-array mic
|
| That's definitely an uncommon way of saying quad microphone
| array.
|
| It's an AI toughbook due to having a unspecified "1.4Ghz AI Boost
| NPU" which seems to be something Intel offers, and according to
| other websites, operates at 34 TOPS.
| mmh0000 wrote:
| Many years ago, at a previous job, I was issued a Toughbook. I
| loved that I didn't have to even think about babying it. I could
| just slap it closed when done and throw it (literally) back in
| the truck.
|
| I didn't like the cost of the thing; which is still costly today.
| However! Just like back then, today, you can get REALLY good
| deals on used Toughbooks through eBay. Because they are niche and
| not many people want to carry an 8Lb brick with them.
| robotnikman wrote:
| >you can get REALLY good deals on used Toughbooks through eBay.
|
| Wow you are right, I took a look and many are in the $200-300
| range, though without a drive. I might just grab one to mess
| around with, and stick in a spare drive I have laying around
| rbanffy wrote:
| Just remember that being indestructible also means the
| cheapest ones are ancient as well.
| aae42 wrote:
| i'll be happy to pick one of these up used for 10% the price in a
| few years
| xnx wrote:
| Panasonic CF-31 i7 16GB 1TB already seems like a decent value
| at $640 https://www.ebay.com/itm/235658243945
| voidmain0001 wrote:
| That price should be divided by 10 since the CPU is 5th gen
| from 2015[0].
|
| [0] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-56
| 00U...
| adamomada wrote:
| Best offer your $64 and see if you get it. My bet is no and
| the eBay seller knows a bit more about what it's worth
| ryzvonusef wrote:
| if you search for panasonic fz40 on google or youtube, what do
| you get, results for the lumix camera or the toughbook laptop,
| both by panasonic, both having the same model number?
|
| google gives me the laptop, youtube gives me the camera
| writeslowly wrote:
| What are the use cases for the advertised barcode reader
| accessory that appears to shoot the laser out the side of your
| laptop?
|
| https://connect.na.panasonic.com/toughbook/accessories/fz-vb...
| ssijak wrote:
| To read barcodes
| xnx wrote:
| Probably a fair number of document, media, or small part
| inventory tasks where the laptop would be on cart. Sometimes
| easier to bring the barcode to the scanner than bring the
| scanner to the barcode.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| Government procurement contracts for these probably wanted it
| since they need a way to inventory assets and this gives an
| all-in-one solution. Military and law enforcement are probably
| the main purchasers of these.
| sdtransier wrote:
| One possible use case would be for police officers to scan
| driver licenses when pulling people over. When I worked for a
| city IT department, they had to have separate barcode readers
| installed in the cars for that, so I imagine it'd be nice to
| have it integrated into the laptop.
| tourmalinetaco wrote:
| It may be redundancy; have a dedicated reader but if it
| breaks you don't need to go to the station for another one.
| throw0101d wrote:
| Inventory / part tracking comes to mind.
|
| The barcode scanner drops the likelihood of typos in part and
| serial numbers
|
| I've heard it said that an airplane is ten thousand parts
| flying in formation: keeping track of maintenance and
| replacement parts is important in many (safety-critical)
| industries, and so having a scanner that one doesn't have to
| remember, lug around, and fumble with [0] could be useful.
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=barcode+scanner
| roamerz wrote:
| For Public Safety usage most all ID's now have at least a 1d
| barcode and most have a 2d barcode. When the usage environment
| permits their use, barcode readers permit quick and accurate
| data entry versus manual keyboard entry.
| tristor wrote:
| It's for public safety / law enforcement use cases. ID cards
| like driver's licenses have a barcode on them, they can read
| the barcode in their police software to look you up and get
| your warrants, driving record, etc and digitally ticket you.
| alexb_ wrote:
| Inventory tracking. This is a piece of military equipment, and
| a lot of that stuff is tracked with bar codes.
| michaelt wrote:
| 15 years ago, if you were a delivery company you might use
| something like a Panasonic Toughbook CF-U1 in each van. Rugged,
| built-in GPS and 3G, and it runs a full copy of Windows XP. You
| want a dashboard-mounted docking station? How about a docking
| station designed for 100,000 connect-disconnect cycles?
|
| The barcode scanner, believe it or not, was useful to scan
| barcodes.
|
| These days a smartphone is a much better choice.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| To a degree, the dedicated barcode scanners is still a fair
| bit faster. So anything dealing with high volumes of barcodes
| like warehousing inventory or store stock management benefits
| from a dedicated scanner.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Not for scanning barcodes; I've seen them in action, they're
| noticeably slower and the image processing seems more
| involved than whatever magic is in barcode scanners.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| You can also get "smartphones" (Android handhelds) with a
| true laser scanning barcode reader. We have them at work.
| Like Zebra devices.
|
| They sure beat camera based ones yes (although they
| technically also use a camera but it's really optimised for
| the purpose)
|
| Most of the couriers that come to my door also use these or
| similar, not standard smartphones.
| cebert wrote:
| I work on Public Safety applications. Tracking the chain of
| custody for items collected by officers is very important. Many
| vendors have support for this. Officers can print labels from
| their car and begin maintain a custody log from out in the
| field. Officers can scan labels with barcode scanners or phone
| cameras. They also often use barcode scanners to scan drivers
| licenses with can have 1D or 2D information encoded in them.
| tonymet wrote:
| oculus with a $20 bluetooth keyboard would be a better field
| computer
| GuB-42 wrote:
| The point here is to bring the computer to the field, not to
| bring the field to the computer.
| tonymet wrote:
| i don't follow. A wireless oculus , DC supply & bluetooth
| keyboard should be enough for the field.
| stonogo wrote:
| sure, if you don't mind replacing it weekly.
| toyg wrote:
| Can't wait to share sweaty goggles with "Wet" Joe, who last
| washed his face for his wedding in 2006.
| bityard wrote:
| I've encountered a few of these over the years. On the one hand,
| they are impressively rugged. And easy to repair. But the ones I
| have laid hands on had terrible displays, terrible keyboards, and
| terrible touchpads. And this was back when ALL laptop keyboards
| and touchpads where far inferior to what they are now.
|
| I'm sure some use them because they like the aesthetic, it would
| not be most people's first choice as a daily driver.
| jedberg wrote:
| > I'm sure some use them because they like the aesthetic, it
| would not be most people's first choice as a daily driver.
|
| Almost anyone who uses one does it because they work in an
| environment where nothing else would survive. Construction
| sites, mining, dusty or wet places, etc.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| There's a niche group of people (particularly electronics
| distributor FAEs for some reason) who have them for the same
| reason many people own F150s: because they like to look like
| they work in that sort of environment.
| jedberg wrote:
| Fascinating. I've never run into anyone with a vanity
| toughbook, but I can totally believe this.
| masklinn wrote:
| Never run into vanity fully rugged either.
|
| I've met people who used business rugged as daily
| drivers, they're somewhat less hostile and still rather
| nice: spill proof, hotswap battery, handle and strap, not
| as solid as the fully rugged but lighter and better
| looking.
|
| Still expensive as hell new.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| There's another lower level of ruggedness, school /
| student laptops, Dell has a line of them; they're cheap
| ish and have a rubberized edge. Doesn't really matter if
| a student closes their laptop hard with a pen in it
| though (the hinge sheared straight off) or they use it as
| a punching bag though.
| swatcoder wrote:
| > I'm sure some use them because they like the aesthetic, it
| would not be most people's first choice as a daily driver.
|
| Aesthetic?
|
| Durability and ruggedness are the distinguishing feature for
| these, and there are many people not working in offices who
| have that as a requirement for their "daily drivers".
|
| Sure, _some_ people might enjoy the aesthetic for its own sake,
| but that 's not going to play much part of the product
| strategy.
| jedberg wrote:
| Only 7.4 lbs! Surprising but also awesome.
| havblue wrote:
| Going through security, a TSA agent inspected my Toughbook and
| was really impressed by how cool it looked. I didn't have the
| heart to break it to him that the laptop was outdated at the
| time. It was just a laptop that you could drop, nothing special
| about it.
| jnwatson wrote:
| Gotta respect Panasonic for identifying an underserved market and
| crushing it for almost 30 years.
| ahaseeb wrote:
| Yes I am surprised no one else went for it
|
| Great example of riches are in niches
| mciancia wrote:
| Not no one. There is also getac, durabook, rugged series of
| some dell laptops, there is (was?) itrinix and probably a bit
| more that I don't really know of :)
| catherinecodes wrote:
| Getac and Dell are active there, particularly for law
| enforcement. There's a good youtube channel[1] that compares
| them all from time to time.
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/@Bobjohnson
| grobbyy wrote:
| I have a ruggedized Dell. It's not nearly as tough as the
| Panasonic I used, but it's tough enough. On the other hand,
| it is much more useable.
|
| I don't know if that's a brand or model difference.
| solardev wrote:
| Geeze, starts at $4500ish...
| dnndev wrote:
| we used them because they guaranteed parts and repair for
| something like five or ten years. This was the number one reason
| we purchased hundreds...
|
| No complaints, they were very stable. We tried other cheaper
| models and they would overheat etc.. ( used on large ships )
| AcerbicZero wrote:
| I remember running into the old version of these super early in
| my little IT life, back when I was just at AIT; All that time
| playing with FCBC2's and Blue Force trackers ended up giving me
| an addiction to very graphically boring military simulation
| games, but I'm not complaining.
|
| We also used to run HMMWVs over them on my deployments, mostly to
| prove points and win bets lol. That got stopped after an MRAP
| crushed one though - The rakkasans who know, know ;)
| alexb_ wrote:
| This stuff is not for consumers. It's for the military. That's
| why they cost so much and put so much emphasis on features that
| seemingly don't have any purpose (a bar code scanner and
| modularity but bad specs? auth readers but a terrible display and
| keyboard?)
|
| As someone in the military, these are _everywhere_ - that 's
| their main customer. When judging this product, realize that's
| what it's built for.
| masklinn wrote:
| It's for any job where care is not expected or possible, not
| just the military.
|
| They're everywhere in mines and factories, they're used by
| first responders, they're routine for race teams, field techs,
| surveyors, ...
| shahzaibmushtaq wrote:
| Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used these types of laptops for
| programming?
| masklinn wrote:
| Mostly useless.
|
| They are hideously expensive, the specs are really not great,
| the keyboards and displays are meh, and the trackpads are
| obnoxiously bad.
|
| They are for using in the field where damage is expected.
|
| So you might want that if your programming is tuning car ECU
| during races, or you do your programming on a sailboat while
| crossing the Atlantic. Otherwise they're just underpowered
| back-breakers.
| quailfarmer wrote:
| Yes, we used them for a rocket launch in the desert. The main
| distinguishing feature is that these (CF-31 and related) are
| fully dust proof, the fan of a normal laptop will pull in dust
| and die. These were certainly slower to use, but we were just
| hacking around small bugs as they caused issues.
| unusual-name wrote:
| I used to use Thoughbooks every day at work while I was working
| as an EMT. I kinda have a love/hate relationship with them. I
| loved their ruggedness. They can fall from the stretcher to the
| ground, you can sit on them and they even work when it's raining
| on them. But everything else is not that great. The keyboard
| feels awful, the touchscreen sometimes didn't work (which was
| awful because the application was designed for touchscreens) and
| the trackpad is tiny compared to other laptops. Still they're
| better than the alternatives that other cities used. Documenting
| with pen and paper is exhausting, iPad aren't as rugged and their
| on screen keyboard is even worse and smartphones just don't
| appear that professional.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| 100% better than the GETACs my ambulance service used, those
| were hot garbage, with even worse touchscreens (or it may also
| have been that my service was so cheap they'd buy them on eBay,
| and even buy partially broken ones and the Director of Ops
| would Frankenstein multiple broken ones together to get one
| working)...
| a1o wrote:
| I used both, but the thoughbook with Windows and the GETAC
| with Android. The touchscreen experience was much better in
| the GETACs I used. The thoughbook is good in the laptop
| format as linked but not the thoughbooks that are meant to be
| used as tablets - those die easier.
| ackatz wrote:
| I started my IT career in emergency medical services. It was
| amazing to see the beating these computers can take. I have seen
| toughbooks (Panasonic, GETAC) survive after being run over by an
| ambulance, fall off the back of an ambulance at high speed, etc.
| They are very modular and easy to fix.
| tmtvl wrote:
| Vaguely related: Emperor Linux sells (sold? IDK if they're still
| in business) Toughbooks with Linux pre-installed:
| http://emperorlinux.com/systems/rugged/
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I'd love something like that. But they're soooo expensive.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Those things are tanks. They're also very modular. Never owned
| one, but have seen them around a bit. I've also seen them run
| Linux pretty decently. ;)
| spankalee wrote:
| It would be cool to see Framework enter this market so that you
| could get a ruggedized notebook that's modular, repairable, and
| upgradeable through the whole stack.
| masklinn wrote:
| Tough books are already modular and very repairable. Not really
| upgradable but that's a minor concern given the market.
|
| The testing necessary for the certs is expensive, and these are
| 99.9% procured by governments and large companies, complete
| waste of time and money for framework.
| lb1lf wrote:
| Oooh, I finally managed to coax my manager into getting me a
| ToughBook at a previous gig, after I'd churned through a Dell
| Mobile Workstation or two a year doing field work.
|
| The ToughBook lasted years. True, the keyboard left a bit to be
| desired, the screen ghosted like you wouldn't believe and the
| colours were a bit, uh, off, not to mention ridiculous resolution
| - but killing the thing was essentially impossible.
|
| It is the Land Cruiser of laptops. Expensive, sluggish, heavy,
| indestructible.
|
| It even had a serial port (and, still does as an optional extra!)
|
| Nowadays, I spend much less time in the field and use a T14. Has
| served me well thus far. Oh, and I can actually carry it around
| without thinking twice of it.
| rbanffy wrote:
| There are some Dells that are quite indestructible as well.
| OTOH, it's usually cheaper to let someone kill a couple laptops
| than to get a single rugged one. Plus, not all parts of the
| dead laptop are destroyed, so things like memory and solid-
| state storage can be easily transplanted to the next victim.
| nine_k wrote:
| This is true, as long as a day in the field without a working
| laptop does not cost comparably to a new laptop. Imagine your
| laptop cracking and ceasing to work when the helicopter that
| brought you to the interesting location has just disappeared
| in the distance.
| scrlk wrote:
| Certain APAC markets get Toughbooks that are derivatives of
| their JDM Let's Note models:
| https://ap.connect.panasonic.com/sg/en/products/toughbook/to...
|
| Something that's a bit closer to a T14 in portability (albeit
| this is a X13 competitor - there's a 14" Let's Note but that's
| JDM only).
|
| It's also a few generations behind the latest 12" Let's Note
| model.
| RantyDave wrote:
| I have a (second hand) one of these. The trackpad is a travesty.
| Borderline unusable.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| But it can be used with gloves on.
| mission_local wrote:
| Girl Talk used to go on stage with a Toughbook wrapped in
| cellophane
| tengbretson wrote:
| 12 hours of battery life on something that size and weight is a
| joke. What did they fill the rest of the chassis with, concrete?
| amlib wrote:
| They filled it with the same dense material that is in your
| head.
| elromulous wrote:
| One of these famously stopped a bullet. They're quite literally
| bulletproof.
|
| https://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/mo...
| yuvadam wrote:
| I wonder how those compare to Dell Latitude Rugged laptops?
| nom wrote:
| > Certification: MIL-STD-810H, MIL-STD-461G, IP66 and optional
| C1D2
|
| That's why they always seemed a bit overbuilt to me.. most field
| work does not require such rugged devices.
|
| They are made for military use and similar areas with crazy
| requirements. Few laptops exist that can check their boxes.
|
| If you design a laptop to these specs, you end up with a
| passively cooled rubberized metal box with an unpleasant
| keyboard.
| rbanffy wrote:
| A bonus feature is that you can use it as body armour.
| rbanffy wrote:
| When I was in college I remember seeing ads for military lunchbox
| computers with VME buses and SPARC processor boards.
|
| Wish I could find one of those.
| bb88 wrote:
| You're looking maybe for the Tadpole or maybe Macrolink. Both
| were bought by other companies.
|
| Here's an article from 2000.
|
| https://www.militaryaerospace.com/home/article/16710746/rugg...
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