[HN Gopher] Just use fucking paper, man
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Just use fucking paper, man
        
       Author : tobr
       Score  : 118 points
       Date   : 2024-08-27 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (andy-bell.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (andy-bell.co.uk)
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | This is why, after a lot of experimentation, I decided to stick
       | with paper as well. All of the other alternatives bring
       | significant friction and other downsides, with very nearly no
       | benefit to me.
        
       | jasonwcfan wrote:
       | My handwriting is barely legible, even to my self. So I'll stick
       | to Notion, thank you very much.
        
         | normie3000 wrote:
         | Mine too, but I rarely read my notes.
        
       | java-man wrote:
       | I write a lot of notes, on many devices, some of them are
       | commands or urls so they need to be copied. And I do need search.
        
       | hilux wrote:
       | I'll use paper when they invent handwriting I can read.
       | 
       | Bonus: the handwriting is searchable.
        
       | gumboshoes wrote:
       | I still use the "hipster PDA":
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_PDA
        
         | Bedon292 wrote:
         | I hadn't seen that before, but I kind of like it. I keep a
         | stack of blank index cards on my desk for writing down lists of
         | priorities and things and they end end up with them scattered
         | around. Restack them up and review priorities, consolidate, and
         | things like that on occasion. A binder clip to keep some with
         | me and organized would be nice. I have a notebook I keep with
         | me, but end up with lots of clutter and flipping around without
         | the ability to toss old cards. May have to experiment with it
         | some.
        
         | lemonberry wrote:
         | Hipster PDA, yellow legal pad, and sticky notes.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | The modern commercialized version of this is Ugmonk's Analog.
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | $100 for some index cards and a tray, $40 for a resupply of
           | index cards. Now that's a business model.
        
       | silveira wrote:
       | Hobonichi Techo.
        
       | auggierose wrote:
       | I think if you prefer paper over tools like Things, which I like
       | very much, then you are probably super organised already in the
       | first place.
       | 
       | I mean, how do you organise all that paper??
        
         | johndavidback wrote:
         | I keep a little pocket notebook. Moleskin makes them and
         | others. One of them is just for to-dos, I keep another for
         | ideas.
        
         | PhasmaFelis wrote:
         | Yeah, if you only need to write down a few lines of tasks every
         | day, that's lovely for you, but to me this reads like a dude
         | commuting to work on a bicycle telling a semi trucker that he
         | doesn't need that big engine.
        
         | squidbeak wrote:
         | Toss them in recycling bins when the todos are complete?
        
       | akshayrajp wrote:
       | I use a simple todo.txt and have everything I need on there. I
       | use notepad to work with it.
       | 
       | I get shit done.
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | I also prefer just a txt file or pinned Keep note for todo
         | lists, but I maintain about a dozen different lists, and not
         | everything gets done. Occasionally I will do an audit and
         | remove things.
         | 
         | Are you just in a scenario where you have absolute control over
         | what you do and on what timeline?
         | 
         | If not:
         | 
         | Do you ever lose track of older items (i.e. forget about them
         | for a long time because your eyeballs don't land on them)?
         | 
         | How do you decide when to remove something that isn't done?
         | 
         | Alternatively, if things never enter the list faster than they
         | leave, how do you predict whether something will or will not
         | violate that rule at entrance time?
        
       | jjeaff wrote:
       | My problem with paper is that I can't keep up with paper. I will
       | lose it several times a day, and inevitably, I will lose it
       | permanently after a year or two. I need the sync and findability
       | that an app on a device affords.
        
         | trzy wrote:
         | If your project TODO lists are stretching into years, it's time
         | to get a better project management system. I recommend paper.
        
           | lpapez wrote:
           | Absolutely.
           | 
           | If an item has been on your TODO list for years, it's most
           | likely not worth doing anyway.
           | 
           | Might as well lose the paper upon which the item is written.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | > I will lose it several times a day
           | 
           | This is me.
           | 
           | Skill issue notwithstanding.
        
           | happytoexplain wrote:
           | This is unrealistic. If I didn't accept TODO items older than
           | a year, or even five years, I never would have built my
           | fence, fixed my stairs, set up my home lab, learned iOS
           | development, digitized my family's old photos/videos, or
           | innumerable other things, because for each of those things, I
           | had 10 to 100 more mundane but more time-sensitive/higher-
           | priority things to do.
           | 
           | You can manage long-term lists without losing items to the
           | abyss by using prioritization techniques.
        
             | stronglikedan wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure you're conflating two different types of
             | todo lists - long term and short term. Paper is great for
             | short term.
        
             | 015a wrote:
             | I feel that you're being unrealistic, not the parent
             | poster: Turning every aspect of your life into a jira
             | ticket straight up isn't healthy (I'm using "jira" here as
             | a stand-in for "any process management system, digital or
             | physical"). I don't feel that writing yourself a reminder
             | to "fix stairs" is normal or a desirable process. At best:
             | This feels similar to a CEO writing a jira ticket to "make
             | website faster"; you've brought an unactionable outcome
             | into process management, rather than the specific
             | actionable steps (e.g. a shopping list).
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | 15 years ago while resisting the smartphone shift I got myself
         | a passport case to use as a combined wallet and portable
         | notebook to write things down in. It worked reasonably well and
         | certainly had some robust advantages but honestly so do cross-
         | device syncd apps that I've used since smartphone adoption.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | If it was important, you wouldn't lose it. It's a feature; sort
         | of a garbage collection.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | Assuming that judgement is in any way involved in situations
           | like that is a mistake. At the very least for ADHD-i people
           | like me.
        
         | stocknoob wrote:
         | Tape an AirTag to your paper notebook.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | > but for todo lists, all of the above are way too complicated.
         | 
         | I think their point was specific to to-do lists which usually
         | aren't around for that long and in my experience rarely need to
         | be searched.
        
       | mwcremer wrote:
       | As @kabdib says, "You can't grep paper."
        
         | squidbeak wrote:
         | His use case it todo lists. Do you often need to grep todo
         | lists?
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | I rarely need to. The things I'm writing down have a shelf life
         | of at most one week. I also draw pictures and diagrams which
         | you can't grep anyways. The Tops brand Steno Pad has been a
         | feature on my desk for the last 30 years. If you use it
         | linearly it's somewhat self indexing and going "back in time"
         | to find things is much easier than you'd expect.
        
         | pj_mukh wrote:
         | And now its,
         | 
         | "I can't turn my paper into a Vector DB to build a RAG pipeline
         | and connect it to a voice chat so I can "talk" to my notes"
         | :'D.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | You can't delete stuff from the middle of it; You can't write
         | stuff at any random place at any random time and have it appear
         | in your workplace; cutting and pasting involves actual scissors
         | and glue...
         | 
         | Paper is a lot of extra work for the only gain to pretend you
         | are doing something simple.
        
       | mempko wrote:
       | I've been using supernote, it's pretty much paper.
        
       | snowstormsun wrote:
       | vim + markdown files <3
        
       | Sirikon wrote:
       | If a friend asks me how to get organised, I always tell them to
       | use pen and paper as a first step.
       | 
       | You might use it just for a day or two, but something clicks in
       | your head, you find your workflow, and now you're able to use
       | more specialised tools.
        
       | thibaultamartin wrote:
       | Paper is a sturdy tool; it doesn't run out of battery, it's
       | interoperable... it beats apps in many aspects.
       | 
       | But as soon as you need automation, it's a different story. I
       | couldn't rely only on paper notes to keep track of my work.
       | 
       | Obsidian has been very useful to keep track of my list of tasks
       | and report what I'm doing. I would spend much more time doing all
       | that with paper.
       | 
       | Details of my setup at
       | https://ergaster.org/posts/2024/07/16-obsidian-contractor/
        
       | pillefitz wrote:
       | Flagging emails as "to be read later", keeping track of responses
       | I'm waiting for, reminders, ... all tricky to do when using
       | paper.
        
       | agiron123 wrote:
       | Love this.
       | 
       | I sit here at my desk with post it notes scattered everywhere,
       | organizing my thoughts and things to do for the day. Something
       | about being able to physically move them around and cross things
       | off just makes it easier for my brain to work.
       | 
       | The problem with this workflow is getting it into the apps that I
       | use to organize my life. These change from time to time, but
       | Sunsama is the clear winner for me at the moment.
       | 
       | PostIt has a great app to use your camera to organize your notes.
       | 
       | I've also found that Apple's FreeForm has a fantastic feature for
       | scanning. Over the weekend I scanned hundreds of old post-it
       | notes of mine that I was trying to declutter, yet some of them
       | had important thoughts that I wanted to stash for later. I used
       | Freeform to scan all my notes.
       | 
       | Next up I'll try feeding this to a model and see if it can
       | organize my notes and create action items from them.
       | 
       | Come to think of it, I could have done none of this and just
       | organized the notes by hand while scanning them :)
       | 
       | Maybe I should try turning my computer off next time and just
       | thinking before I do something.
        
         | Bedon292 wrote:
         | I have tried various ways to deal with organizing thoughts and
         | tasks, and always end up spending too much time trying to
         | optimize and make the system better when I do it in a digital
         | way. For me, it seems like it is better to just disconnect from
         | the electronics and do it by hand.
        
         | aught wrote:
         | I love the postit app. Happy to see it mentioned
        
       | kepano wrote:
       | There's only one method of doing to-dos that has worked for me.
       | This method can be used with paper, Obsidian, Apple Notes, or any
       | other app.
       | 
       | Every week I create a weekly note, and write my to-dos for the
       | week. I may add more items to it during the week. If any items
       | didn't get done I roll them over to the next weekly note or drop
       | them. That's it.
       | 
       | I usually write my to-dos from scratch without looking at the
       | previous week's list. This helps me decide which items I should
       | drop. If I can't remember a to-do it probably wasn't that
       | important.
        
         | ejs wrote:
         | I do the same, and I'll probably automate it soon since I use a
         | fresh markdown doc.
         | 
         | The only thing that remains the same is the header has 'yearly
         | goals'.
         | 
         | It's easy and I can jettison the previous week's unfinished
         | tasks (hey they didn't get done so were they really
         | important?).
        
         | SubiculumCode wrote:
         | There is only one method that works, and it is whichever one
         | you have somehow managed to actually do on a routine basis.
        
         | lbittner wrote:
         | Check out the app called "Tweek". Its exactly what you
         | described here with very little extra fluff.
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | Also NotePlan (on the various Apple platforms). Can go by
           | day, week, month, and year, with files stored in a directory
           | of markdown files.
           | 
           | Edit...
           | 
           | I just looked at Tweek, it seems more similar to TeuxDeux,
           | than NotePlan. But NotePlan seems more like what the
           | grandparent was talking about (at least in my
           | interpretation).
        
         | t_mann wrote:
         | Why not a single, permanent file?
        
           | mattnewton wrote:
           | Not the op, but I do this too because looking at most of the
           | list and deciding what gets copied over is necessary to
           | remove stale items.
           | 
           | (It also creates snapshots that roughly show if the list is
           | growing much faster than things are being done and signals I
           | need to shed load)
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | I find history useful. What did I do last week? When did I
           | work on project X?
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | Ihave a simple "note" on my iPhone and I do similar thing with,
         | I reevaluate if I really need to do it and if I do I roll it
         | over, otherwise it gets deleted. Between this and my calendar
         | list, I try to simplify lol
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | Writing notes only on paper in a properly secured notebook is
         | about to make a big comeback as more and more people realize
         | that it's fast becoming the only way to prevent AI/ML from
         | indexing and leaking their original IP to the corporate world.
         | Sending an email or making a social media or discord post is
         | fast becoming the best way to snitch out your ideas to random
         | unknown parties and IP thieves.
        
           | iwontberude wrote:
           | I have heard it is also how NSA secure their personal
           | passwords, they keep them in a little black book because
           | there is no scalable attack to get access to them at rest.
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | _> no scalable attack_
             | 
             | On-demand RICO says hello,
             | https://westworld.fandom.com/wiki/RICO
        
             | nrr wrote:
             | I'm not and never have been NSA, but I nonetheless have a
             | sordid past with what is arguably a related line of work.
             | This is how I manage my passwords.
             | 
             | In environments where regular rotations are required, I
             | print off a new "biscuit" via `(date ; pwgen $PWGEN_FLAGS)
             | | lpr`. I then append to the candidate password something
             | of a personal identifier that only I know.
        
             | njb311 wrote:
             | And because a little black book might be carried in a
             | pocket and potentially misplaced or stolen, some teams use
             | a system of small self-adhesive pieces of paper, each with
             | just a single password on it, that are attached to the
             | front of the PC. This in turn is secured by a cable lock to
             | the desk.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | _> snitch out your ideas_
           | 
           | s/ideas/canaries/
           | 
           | https://canarytokens.org/
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | This is the only thing that works for me as well.
         | 
         | At work I do it daily, and also have a notes section. That way
         | I can go to any day (in Obsidian's calendar) and see what I did
         | that day if/when needed. I also have a fresh scratch pad each
         | day instead of a giant tab in my editor that holds onto things
         | for months or years without context. Reminders kind of work as
         | well. If I'm doing something today that needs follow up in 2
         | weeks, I pre-make a placeholder note for 2 weeks from now with
         | the to do, and when I get to that day I see it.
         | 
         | It took me about 15 years trying every tool and system under
         | the sun, and then I stumbled across doing this organically
         | based on what I felt I needed. It's been going good for several
         | years now, which is something I've never been able to say
         | before. That said, I'd be lost without the calendar view, it's
         | very helpful for me.
         | 
         | At home, I tried this, but it's too granular. I tried weekly,
         | that even seemed too granular. I'm at the point where when I
         | feel like getting some stuff done, I make a list, and keep that
         | list until it's done (or things age to the point they don't
         | matter). Then some time goes by until I need another one.
        
       | zooi wrote:
       | I've tried many note taking methods, including paper, and none of
       | it really fit my needs. So I wrote my own application, just for
       | me, with nobody else in mind. It's perfect and I recommend
       | everyone to do the same.
        
       | bprater wrote:
       | Try different writing devices, too. I love gel pens and
       | mechanical pencils.
        
       | OldGuyInTheClub wrote:
       | I tried to keep a simple table in Apple Notes and it got
       | frustrating, fast. Couldn't control formatting and it would
       | randomly change font sizes. Looked at alternatives and was
       | confronted with more complexity - looks like notes are just the
       | entry point to mindmaps/braindumps/network diagrams of thought
       | processes. Creating a table in Markdown is even less fun that
       | creating it in Notes.
       | 
       | Now I just track my blood pressure on paper.
        
         | hughesjj wrote:
         | I've got one of those withings with Bluetooth, loving it so far
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | I tried but I can't figure out how to call the compiler on my
       | hand-written notes.
       | 
       | I actually think it would be really interesting, if I could point
       | a camera at my notes and somehow have it spit out a Matlab code
       | or something like that. But I'm not sure how it would work. It
       | would need to understand at least that the things in the brackets
       | are sub-matrices...
        
       | viraptor wrote:
       | Listing the simplest apps, down to Apple Notes as complicated has
       | got to be a troll.
       | 
       | I'm sure there are people who prefer paper for good reasons. But
       | there are no reasons with justifications listed here. Just a very
       | short personal opinion.
        
       | 015a wrote:
       | Tbh I don't assign weight to anyone with the opinion that Apple
       | Reminders is too complicated.
        
       | arabello wrote:
       | I prefer paper when I need to reason deeply, with drafts and
       | schemes. Once my thoughts on paper mean something, I organize
       | them digitally.
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | If my organizational systems aren't backed up to the internet
       | they're useless to me.
       | 
       | I use Apple Notes for scratch notes and GitHub Issues for
       | everything else and I couldn't be happier.
        
       | acyou wrote:
       | Paper is good if you are solo. I tried Notion, waiting inside the
       | grocery store 30 seconds for it to boot up or load or update or
       | whatever on mobile, gave up on it for day to day tasks. Google
       | Keep is still king. Am I going to be able to consistently pull
       | down a text file from a server on mobile? How will I share a
       | paper shopping list with others?
       | 
       | What cheap hosted service should I be using that lets me CRUD my
       | text files on mobile + desktop and share with others?
        
         | piva00 wrote:
         | > How will I share a paper shopping list with others?
         | 
         | I usually send a picture of it to my partner.
        
           | BlueTemplar wrote:
           | Which even works without an Internet access !
        
       | aatarax wrote:
       | Paper is great for transient stuff that is relevant for at most a
       | week or two, but it really goes downhill when you try to capture
       | information you'll want to revisit in the future. Paper is great
       | for todo lists and in the moment notes, but not so great for
       | knowledge base building.
       | 
       | I used to struggle with a lot of tools before too and now use
       | org-roam for longer term notes. The linking model helps a lot
       | with just _writing_ the stuff down and not worrying about how to
       | organize it too much in the moment.
        
       | brcmthrowaway wrote:
       | What about the reMARKABLE 2?
        
       | switchbak wrote:
       | Paper is great, but good lord I tire of these "Just do X", "Stop
       | doing Y", "Z considered harmful", kind of posts. So overconfident
       | and devoid of context, this shit gets really old after a while.
       | Reminds me of JWZ or (gack) Zed Shaw.
       | 
       | I LOVE paper. I also like whiteboards. I also like being able to
       | search through my megabytes of notes for something silly I was
       | wrestling with 2.5 years ago. It might be in a TODO list even.
       | I'm messy, I don't care to try to organize such things, but (rip)
       | grepping still provides value. I don't want to "just use fucking
       | $ANYTHING", thanks very much, man.
        
       | fragmede wrote:
       | I have a remarkable for this. because yeah, just use paper, but
       | like, we live in the future
        
       | allenu wrote:
       | I still use digital tools for documenting my projects and keeping
       | track of long-term tasks, but I agree with the author that papers
       | just fucking works for most things. I sketch out designs on
       | paper. I treat as an ephemeral medium.
       | 
       | Lately I've taken to jotting down lists of things on my mind on
       | index cards so I can carry those around and refer to them without
       | the distraction of a phone. The nice thing is that space is
       | limited, so I can't take on too much at a time. Constraints are a
       | good thing.
        
       | deltarholamda wrote:
       | Now we can have a robust debate on the best paper and writing
       | utensils! Some will advocate for top-spiral notebooks, some
       | composition books, others will proclaim nothing beats a
       | Moleskine.
       | 
       | Then the fight moves to pens vs. pencils. Fountain pens and
       | carpenter's pencils will slug it out for supremacy in the
       | comments. One lone maniac will die on the quill hill.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | wax tablet? (much better write endurance than paper)
        
           | 6510 wrote:
           | I haven't tried it but clay seems pretty cool.
        
             | 082349872349872 wrote:
             | The story I last heard about the origin of writing goes
             | something like this:
             | 
             | - people use clay tokens to keep track of their
             | herds/inventory
             | 
             | - these tokens get put into clay balls for
             | security/transaction grouping
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulla_(seal)#Origins
             | 
             | - to avoid breaking and remaking the clay balls all the
             | time, people record on the outside of the ball symbols
             | indicating which tokens are on the inside of the ball
             | 
             | - at some point, some bright person realises that all you
             | need to do is make the second set of symbols on a tablet;
             | as long as you have them recorded, all the balls and tokens
             | are just legacy
        
         | aught wrote:
         | you can try to pry my fountain pen out of my cold dead hands
        
       | thx wrote:
       | I use Apple Notes but it drives me sooo crazy that you can't
       | left/right swipe between Notes
       | 
       | How is that even possible
        
       | galleywest200 wrote:
       | My regularly sweaty hands say that digital notes are great. My
       | non-home-owning self says that not carrying around boxes upon
       | boxes of my notes for review later in life is the way to go.
        
       | BenFranklin100 wrote:
       | If I didn't have to travel regularly I would use paper. Next best
       | thing is OneNote with a tablet/iPad and pen. Just set it up like
       | you would with a bunch of paper notebooks. Searchable, flexible,
       | and lightweight. Obsidian/Notion sounds great but are rigid.
       | 
       | My only nod to electronic organization is a simple todo app like
       | Things or Todoist.
        
       | algebra-pretext wrote:
       | For todo lists, I agree and at most a plaintext file or the
       | Reminders app on your phone is enough. For daily notes though I
       | feel like Obsidian is only as complex as you want it to be. My
       | vault for work notes is mainly a haphazard bunch of copy-pasted
       | snippets and chat records pasted in an auto-dated daily note, and
       | it's saved me a bunch of times when I've needed to go back and
       | search something.
        
       | mnky9800n wrote:
       | As a scientist I keep organized in the following ways:
       | 
       | * I text myself on slack random idea I have about various
       | projects
       | 
       | * I regularly use a white board to write down the current state
       | of all my projects, where they are at, what needs to be done
       | 
       | * I have a notebook that I write todos in for day to day things
       | 
       | Also these things are basically interchangeable. I have had
       | several different thoughts about how to make a better
       | organisation system through software. But so far I didn't come up
       | with one that i would abandon my research to spend the time
       | writing organisational software instead.
        
       | fitsumbelay wrote:
       | I grew up taking copious handwritten notes and making pencil-to-
       | pen sketches so I get it but sometimes markdown's just as fast
       | for list making and edits are no-mess. The closest I've found to
       | the two is the Boogie Board but IMHO as far as being its best
       | self -- some temp/limited storage, levels of undo, maaaaaybe cut-
       | n-paste? -- it's still about a microcontroller hack or addition
       | away from awesomeness. At any rate, perhaps the headline could be
       | dialed back to "Just use f-ing paper (for now), man"?
        
       | danfunk wrote:
       | 100 percent agree. I keep a todo list, in a notebook, copy undone
       | items over every two or three days to a fresh list. It reminds me
       | what's not getting done. It is easy to look at. I feel a sense of
       | accomplishment. It reduces my stress to put an item on the list
       | for later. I can look at non digital, simple, complete synopsis
       | of my work and get an instant gauge on how things are going.
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | I once worked for a founder who used paper lists. The guy was a
       | billionaire in a very advanced field, but his office workflow was
       | based on a small sheet of note paper with crossed-out tasks.
       | 
       | At the time, I used Wunderlist (later To-Do) for work and home
       | lists. I also had a simple scratch pad in a text editor as well
       | as PDAs prior to that.
       | 
       | I came back to paper. In the 90s, before I got a PDA, it was a
       | small black notebook I kept in my pocket. These days I use
       | printer paper. I start with a blank sheet on Monday, copy over
       | the stuff from the previous week that I didn't complete, and then
       | add new items for the week. On the right margin, I make notes of
       | longer-term projects and invoices to send out, as well as some
       | "home" to-dos usually relating to kids.
       | 
       | I find it's easier to add new items without opening up an app and
       | navigating to the right file. I can also jot down quick notes or
       | facts or phone numbers without having to go through clicks and
       | keyboard shortcuts and arrow keys.
       | 
       | If I'm on the road, I'll use a text file on my laptop. I also
       | still use To Do for a few personal lists (like recipes) but it's
       | no longer part of my daily work routine.
        
       | malux85 wrote:
       | The problem that I have with paper is refactoring.
       | 
       | Creating my todo list, investor update lists, company admin info,
       | idea explorations, and everything else always involves me
       | evolving the idea continuously and shifting things about as the
       | structure changes.
       | 
       | With paper this means using an eraser until I end up with a
       | crumpled mess, or laboriously rewriting it all over and over.
       | 
       | I like the tactile nature of paper, if only I could select chunks
       | by dragging and erase (fully) without wrecking it.
        
         | gspencley wrote:
         | > I like the tactile nature of paper, if only I could select
         | chunks by dragging and erase (fully) without wrecking it.
         | 
         | I'm not seriously suggesting that you do this, but the term
         | "cut & paste" originated from a concept that predates digital
         | text editing ;)
        
       | mkatx wrote:
       | I get it, but had to move away from paper.. the simple fact that
       | you cannot move stuff around without erasing stuff leads to
       | disjointed notes.
       | 
       | For when I need to write by hand, I moved to a reMarkable digital
       | tablet. For notes, I've been experimenting with obsidian/logseq,
       | and it's been going good. For task management , I gotta recommend
       | Super Productivity, it's just fantastic.
       | 
       | I just couldn't live the sticky note life anymore...
        
       | dunefox wrote:
       | I love paper, but it's difficult for me to organise the notes
       | properly, I have no search function, screenshots, links, endless
       | canvas, etc.
       | 
       | I already own a Remarkable 2 but I really don't like it - it's
       | not much more than an e-ink college block. After almost two years
       | they added the function to draw straight lines, meanwhile I still
       | can't search in handwritten notes - not even after converting
       | them to text. You can add tags and the search works for them, but
       | don't add a tag and you won't easily find the page.
       | 
       | So, I'm thinking about buying the Samsung Tab s9+ for studying
       | math and sumerian, but generally also for planning. I find just
       | having all my notes, pdfs, etc. with me, combined with smart
       | features like search is invaluable.
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | I'm an incredibly satisfied owner of the Galaxy Tab S7 here,
         | and I recommend that product line.
         | 
         | I'm also a primarily "Apple" household but the iPad's
         | multitasking is absurd, whereas with DeX mode you get a full
         | windowing system that works sanely. I love my Tab :)
         | 
         | Also I'm pretty sure that it came with the S pen in the box -
         | which works super well. A joy to write with.
        
           | dunefox wrote:
           | I'm only waiting for the s10+ to be released, so that I can
           | maybe get a discount on the s9+ (currently ~850EUR). Yeah,
           | the pen is included, which is great compared to the iPad. Can
           | you recommend apps for note taking?
           | 
           | There's a paper-like screen addon by Samsung that apparently
           | provides a similar writing feel as the Remarkable or paper -
           | I might get that as well.
        
         | nunez wrote:
         | iPad Pro for handwriting is god tier. Can't do better IMO.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I ordered a Daylight tablet. I'm still waiting for it to ship.
         | I'm hoping for a good reading and writing experience, with the
         | benefit of rich options for apps vs just what comes from the
         | OEM, like with Remarkable.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | E-ink tablets come in all kinds of functionalities :
         | 
         | https://ewritable.com/best-e-ink-tablets/#Best_Dedicated_Not...
         | 
         | > [...]
         | 
         | > The native note-taking software has some really nice and
         | unique features that I find really useful. For example, when I
         | start a new page, I write the title at the top, and then lasso-
         | select it and turn it into a heading and the Supernote
         | automatically builds me a Table of Contents based on my
         | headings. I can also draw a five-pointed star anywhere on the
         | canvas to mark the page as important and then do a search for
         | all my stars so that I can action them. There is a touch-
         | sensitive swipe bar on the right-hand bezel which brings up a
         | quick access menu whatever I am doing so that I can quickly
         | flick between notebooks and documents. And the handwriting
         | search feature is supremely fast.
         | 
         | > [...]
        
       | _emacsomancer_ wrote:
       | I think "use paper" is good for lots of things. But if I'm trying
       | to quickly make notes of lots of things, I end up not being able
       | to find things. Org-roam (or some other similar system) is what
       | I've found to be a good substitute for paper.
       | 
       | The thing about both paper and Org-roam/Emacs, is that it's under
       | your own control, and can be tailored to meet your own actual
       | needs, not how someone else thinks you should do things. That's
       | where Apple Notes etc. fall down.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | Workflowy is also good, keeps getting better. Used it for many
         | years with a small team, but mostly for myself.
        
         | MountainMan1312 wrote:
         | I'm also an org-roam and paper guy, but I've designed my system
         | to be platform-agnostic. It's all in the naming conventions.
         | 
         | Files are named hierarchically with periods. I have top-level
         | categories that have changed little over the years. `con.` for
         | concepts, `lit.` for documents, `proj.` for projects... you get
         | the point, I'm not listing all of them unless someone really
         | just wants me to.
         | 
         | My go-to example is always Star Wars. `lore.sw` is my top-level
         | Star Wars note. I also have `lore.sw.chron` which is the
         | chronological watching order. There's also `game.sw` which
         | contains a list of Star Wars games I've found.
         | 
         | This extends to non-note files as well. For images of something
         | I use `.img.[date].#.[ext]`, so for example I have some
         | pictures of my cat named `ppl.neck.img.2024.03.15.1.raw`. I
         | have a video of him murdering a bird too,
         | `ppl.neck.vid.2024.05.22.murdering-a-bird.mp4`... As you can
         | see, sometimes I replace the number with a nice title.
         | 
         | The modularity of it all is great. I can add anything anywhere
         | at any point in the hierarchy without having to re-name things.
         | I name things exactly what they are. The hierarchy can be
         | sparse, parent notes don't have to exist. I can name something
         | `stuff.something.i-dont-know.gif` without having any notes for
         | `stuff.` or `stuff.something.`
         | 
         | I have notes on paper as well, and they use the same system,
         | with the hierarchical name printed in bold at the top of the
         | paper. `self.passwords` is a paper note for obvious reasons. I
         | also keep most of my `sys.internal.` documentation on paper
         | because my computer might not work when I need it most, though
         | a lot of them do have computer versions which I just print out
         | when I change because it's too much to write by hand.
        
           | MountainMan1312 wrote:
           | Replying to my own comment here. I decided to list all of the
           | top-level categories because it's something I'm kind of proud
           | of, as it seems to be able to categorize anything I can throw
           | at it:
           | 
           | agenda.: single file, my main TODO. I can also add `.agenda.`
           | anywhere in any hierarchy to make a topic-specific agenda.
           | 
           | archive.: I just slap `archive.` on the front of any filename
           | I want to archive.
           | 
           | con.: notes about concepts
           | 
           | cook.: my cookbook
           | 
           | film.: movies, shows, etc.. Contains both notes and actual
           | films
           | 
           | game.: game notes, downloads, old versions, mod version
           | archive, skins, settings exports, etc.
           | 
           | grp.: social groups, movements, governments, companies,
           | religions, etc. Mostly notes from school and research from
           | work, but some political stuff too.
           | 
           | home.: my house
           | 
           | inbox.: single note, anything can go in here for later
           | processing if I'm feeling lazy
           | 
           | journal.: journal, organized by date (journal.2024.08.27).
           | Hasn't been used in years.
           | 
           | lang.: languages of all kinds; spoken, programming,
           | everything. There's `lang.lisp` next to `lang.latin`
           | 
           | lit.: literature, documents, etc.. Organized as
           | `lit.author.series.document.chapter`. I have a lot of books.
           | 
           | log.: logs, never used this one actually
           | 
           | lore.: research about fictional worlds (I'm into
           | worldbuilding)
           | 
           | meta.: about this collection
           | 
           | music.: playlist dumps, song downloads
           | 
           | ppl.: people
           | 
           | prod.: products
           | 
           | proj.: projects
           | 
           | school.: school stuff, organized as
           | `school.institution.course.unit.chapter.assignment.document`
           | 
           | self.: me
           | 
           | social.: social media
           | 
           | soft.: software
           | 
           | sys.: my systems
           | 
           | veh.: my vehicles
           | 
           | Bonus: I also have `woodheart.` for my worldbuilding project,
           | which contains a copy of most of the above categories within
           | it.
        
       | IAmGraydon wrote:
       | For personal to-do lists, I just use the Notes app on iOS.
        
       | cheema33 wrote:
       | Like many others here I use paper for short term stuff. I use a
       | small 5x7 spiral notebook with a #2 pencil. Anything that is not
       | a very short-term todo item, goes in Obsidian.
       | 
       | I do love Obsidian. I am sad I did not discover it sooner and
       | suffered through OneNote.
        
       | mrichman wrote:
       | Ctrl+F doesn't work in a notebook, and I can't paste in
       | screenshots.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | >and I can't paste in screenshots.
         | 
         | Well, you literally could
        
       | MissTake wrote:
       | Everyone is different and what works for one person, will be an
       | abject failure for another.
       | 
       | Not sure why the OP feels the need to be so vehement in their
       | opinion.
        
       | jp191919 wrote:
       | Tasks app from F-droid for to-dos, and Nextcloud Notes for the
       | notes
        
       | system2 wrote:
       | Things I tried:
       | 
       | -Actual physical whiteboard
       | 
       | -Notepads (moleskine, amazon branded notepad, all colors, fancy
       | stuff that is $20+)
       | 
       | -Obsidian with a bunch of plugins including Exalidraw (I wish
       | flowcharting could be easier but still sucks compared to yED)
       | 
       | -Google Keep (I use it on my iPhone and sync with my computer
       | when needed. I only use it before homedepot or some hardware
       | store shopping. I don't use lists for grocery)
       | 
       | -One Note
       | 
       | -Wacom Intuos Pro with other 3rd party drawing / note taking apps
       | 
       | -My own website (Wordpress with notetaking plugin to have it on
       | the "cloud")
       | 
       | -Perfex CRM
       | 
       | -Asana (still use it for client projects with limited access to
       | them)
       | 
       | -My own Kanban mutation
       | 
       | -Microsoft Notepad in a dedicated folder for notes (was probably
       | the longest-running among all other methods)
       | 
       | -yED Graph (still use it for client presentations with basic
       | flowcharts)
       | 
       | -Google Calendar with excessive notes
       | 
       | -365 Word With fancy plugins
       | 
       | -Notepad++ since it doesn't delete if I don't save the document
       | (MS Notepad brought it with win11 though)
       | 
       | Nothing worked out but I am forcing myself to use Obsidian in a
       | Dedicated monitor and never move it. I think I am getting close
       | to liking it. I don't know what's wrong. These apps are SO
       | CLUTTERED. And real paper is not searchable. I have a shelf
       | dedicated to 1/5 used notepads.
       | 
       | Additionally, I thought I didn't like writing with a pen. Then I
       | dedicated a very good chunk of my life to finding the perfect
       | pen. So far G2 and Jetstream are my favorites. I used zebra in
       | the early 2010s because I thought "If police are using it, it
       | must be good". It wasn't that good. I needed flow.
        
         | patrickmay wrote:
         | Since you've tried almost everything else, I recommend Things 3
         | if Obsidian doesn't work out for you. It's the simplest of the
         | ones I've tried other than paper.
        
           | system2 wrote:
           | It appears to be for apple only. I am a win/linux guy,
           | unfortunately.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Next we'll see people wanting filing cabinets.
        
       | dingnuts wrote:
       | yeah sure let me write important Jira links into a notebook by
       | hand, that'll be better than keeping them in a plain text file
        
       | behiri wrote:
       | I use org mode for personal note taking and todo lists, and it
       | has been working very well for me. for projects I put a TODO.org
       | inside the docs folder and any TODO and bugfixes goes there (a
       | simple todo.txt can do the same)
       | 
       | paper has never worked for me, it's hard to keep track of it and
       | others can easily read it.
        
       | arkaic wrote:
       | I have a todo.txt for work, but otherwise, I just Google Keep for
       | everything. Not gonna have my physical notebook everywhere with
       | me as I go, so I need something cloud based. Keep is just simple
       | AF to use. No rich text editing or anything more complIcated than
       | a checklist.
        
       | whack wrote:
       | This would have been perfect if the author had written the essay
       | on paper and then uploaded a picture of it. What a missed
       | opportunity
        
       | unsignedint wrote:
       | Aside from my notoriously illegible handwriting (which becomes
       | even worse after just a few seconds, but more on that later), my
       | main gripe with using paper is that I end up with smudges all
       | over my hand--being left-handed doesn't help. The smudging often
       | makes my already hard-to-read handwriting even more of a mess.
       | (This issue even contributed to my struggles in English classes
       | back then.)
       | 
       | These days, the only time I use pen and paper is during language
       | interpretation sessions. It helps me retain very short-term
       | memory, but afterward, I can hardly make sense of any of the
       | notes I took.
       | 
       | For everything else, I rely on apps. I currently use OneNote.
       | I've tried various solutions, but I found OneNote strikes the
       | best balance between online and offline functionality--it's saved
       | me many times in situations with spotty or slow international
       | roaming.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Get a different brand of fountain pen recharges ?
         | 
         | Use a pencil instead ??
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | I don't understand how note taking is such an impassioned subject
       | on this site.
       | 
       | But fwiw, what works for me is to have notes everywhere. I take
       | notes in a journal, ephemeral notepad, emails, texts to myself,
       | apple notes, and orgmode. I just want to have lots of
       | accessibility.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | > I don't understand how note taking is such an impassioned
         | subject on this site.
         | 
         | Neurotic people thinking that they are going to organize their
         | existence on this earth.
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | It (note-taking tools) really is a big thing among this cohort.
         | I think there's this deep belief that if you just had the right
         | organizational system, you could get more done and be more
         | productive. Having gone down that line of thinking before, I
         | get the appeal, though I think it's overrated when it comes to
         | actually being productive. But man it feels good to play with
         | new toys.
        
           | piva00 wrote:
           | Can echo the feeling, it's magical thinking that "only if I
           | had the perfect organisational system I'd unlock my
           | potential". It's a trap, and I fell for it for a while when I
           | was younger.
           | 
           | Nowadays I gave up on all the
           | Notion/Evernote/orgmode/whatever-tool-someone-is-peddling
           | with systems of systems, tagging, etc. to organise oneself.
           | 
           | I realised after getting a bit older that pen and paper is
           | the system that works for me, just a nice notebook, without
           | pressure to use it for everything, no rigid system but a
           | system that organically evolved for myself; keep it
           | accessible wherever I'm that I might need to take notes, and
           | it just flows while being easy to use _for myself_.
           | 
           | I think that looking for the perfect amazing organisational
           | system is just another form of procrastination. I'm very
           | happy for the people who manage to have found a very neat
           | system for themselves, searchable, available on every device,
           | etc., but it's not for me.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | I believe it's a form of bikeshedding[1]. Not everyone might be
         | experts on AI or gaussian splats or whatever, but taking notes
         | -- everyone did that, so everyone can comment on that.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeshedding
        
         | bengale wrote:
         | Obsessive organisation can be a form of procrastination.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I think it's a common shared problem and everyone is looking
         | for the no-compromises solution.
         | 
         | For me...
         | 
         | - One trusted place for all the notes (something that the stuff
         | everywhere model lacks... things get lost or end up being hard
         | to find)
         | 
         | - Portable, avoiding lock-in. The assumption is the usefulness
         | of the notes will outlive any closed platform.
         | 
         | - Multiplatform, with sync. To make it easy to have that one
         | trusted place, and it always be accessible.
         | 
         | - Modern features... can't sketch too well in markdown and
         | embedding stuff is tedious and doesn't seem like it will scale
         | well over time without tooling. But tooling brings back the
         | lock-in issue.
         | 
         | And probably some other stuff. The perfect system doesn't
         | really exist. Compromises need to be made. Each person makes
         | different concessions, while many of us jump from tool to tool,
         | system to system, hoping to have it all, but ultimately living
         | with constant pain and disappointment.
         | 
         | I've given up. I'm use Obsidian and work and the Apple stuff at
         | home. If/when I need to migrate off Apple, I'll deal with it
         | then. Switching every few months sucks.
        
       | jarbus wrote:
       | I literally just use a giant text file for everything, with only
       | a specialized vim macro for inserting the date.
        
       | Almondsetat wrote:
       | Has the author considered you can just write on a tablet with a
       | supported pen?
        
       | neuralRiot wrote:
       | Writing notes by hand helps rembering them.
        
       | mdotk wrote:
       | Emails to myself and snoozing combined with inbox-zero.
        
       | rerdavies wrote:
       | Obviously written by somebody who never experienced the Peak-
       | Paper complexity of task management using DayTimer organizers.
       | The curse of having to carry your 5"x7" $150 leather-bound
       | personal planner with $200/yr worth of planning pages which did
       | not fit in your pocket everywhere you went...
       | 
       | This way leads to madness!
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | I don't understand why Notion is so damn popular. It's a textbook
       | example of "jack of all trades; master of none."
       | 
       | It has databases that allow you to create many different views of
       | things, but actually using this capability is one of the most
       | frustrating things ever. No keyboard shortcuts; actions that
       | you'd typically do in Excel don't work here; every table is its
       | own page, even when it doesn't need to be; and so on.
       | 
       | You can also create a plain old table within Notion, but all of
       | the complaints above apply here. Why even have a table object
       | when it's going to just be a gimped database?
       | 
       | It has static web page hosting built in, but so does Confluence
       | and other wikis.
       | 
       | If you try to use Notion off-line, it randomly won't show you
       | changes until you're back online.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | That said, paper is great for worm (write once, read many) type
       | data but is inflexible and really difficult to search through
       | later.
       | 
       | Journaling is a great example.
       | 
       | It is easy and tempting to start with a paper journal. Feels more
       | personal and connected. However, when you want to know how you
       | felt on this day five years ago, or you want to find a pattern to
       | explain moods that don't make sense, you'll spend ages sifting
       | through notebooks. That's assuming that you haven't lost them.
       | 
       | Apps work so much better here.
       | 
       | I started journaling in 2014 but started journaling _daily_ after
       | discovering Daylio in 2021. I use Day One now.
       | 
       | I regret not having used an app for this everyday.
       | 
       | There are so many moments of my life that I lost or don't
       | remember very well because I wanted to "handwrite my journals"
       | despite, often, not having the time to do so. Journaling has
       | helped me understand why I feel things and when and gave me a
       | great first step towards fixing them.
       | 
       | I will say that trying to modify a table in Notion makes me want
       | to throw my Mac into the ocean and go back to paper and
       | briefcases.
        
         | stranded22 wrote:
         | I tried many times to like Notion but it is far too complicated
         | for my needs. It felt like procrastination, a tech version of a
         | bullet journal. Spending too much time designing the system,
         | and not enough actually using it. It felt like there was too
         | much potential and flexibility, if that's possible - whilst
         | being really crap at what I was looking for (todo list with
         | notifications / offline personal document storage).
         | 
         | So its ticktick + one note (used to have Evernote until they
         | mucked it up).
         | 
         | I've tried journaling but never feel like I have enough
         | interesting things to document. Have you tried Apple Journal?
         | Do you have templates you recommend?
        
           | nrr wrote:
           | "It felt like procrastination, a tech version of a bullet
           | journal." There's a lot out there that certainly falls under
           | what I call "procrasturbation," but the Bullet Journal is
           | ironically the thing I've stuck with the longest. Ryder
           | Carroll came up with a formalization of the concept more
           | recently, but I've been using it since 1999, prompted by the
           | removal of our backpacks due to Columbine.
           | 
           | I think the thing that a lot of folks miss is that it's a
           | framework that's meant to grow incrementally with how you go
           | through life and work.
           | 
           | Without a bag to keep everything together, I got tired of
           | misplacing my notebooks, one for each class, so I started
           | living out of only one at a time, which then led me to set up
           | a sort of table of contents and numbered pages so I could
           | find things. It also let me cope with my as-yet-undiagnosed
           | OCD and ADHD by giving me the permission just to start at
           | whatever page and treat the bound pages as a linked list
           | instead of an array. (Bonus: the table of contents became a
           | sort of allocation bitmap.)
           | 
           | Homework due dates and holidays and birthdays begat calendars
           | of various sorts, inconsistent study habits begat habit
           | trackers, notes from class meetings begat dailies wherein I
           | braindump about whatever, etc., but none of that happened
           | overnight. It built up over months to years.
           | 
           | Journaling is about the stuff you want to remember later so
           | that you can reflect on it. Most of my entries involve doting
           | on my cats (so many days where I'm just like, "Valerian was
           | an aggressively cuddly purrbucket again" or "Laureline
           | brought me another sock from the hamper") and, like, "on a
           | lark, I dug out my old ThinkPad to find it actually isn't
           | inoperative."
        
       | perihelion_zero wrote:
       | Endless mountain of todo lists on desk: Index cards. Put them in
       | a box when there are too many and let the unreasonable goals
       | expire. (Optional: Trade them with your friends after a year.)
       | 
       | Personal notes: A waterproof mini-notepad.
       | 
       | Personal notes I don't care about: Sticky notes.
       | 
       | Movie scripts, math problems, and complex functional diagrams: A
       | full-size sheet of paper taken from the nearest printer.
       | 
       |  _This comment sent from my Sticky Pad 5._
        
       | bitbasher wrote:
       | I have always found pen and paper to be far more satisfying to
       | check things off and it brings clarity better than a digital note
       | or Kanban board.
       | 
       | I use a single sheet of paper every day. I write down 2-4 things
       | I want to get done that day and any small tasks I need to do (ie,
       | reply to x email).
       | 
       | The rest of the paper is for notes or thoughts throughout the
       | day.
       | 
       | At the end of the day I take a new sheet of paper and write the
       | next days tasks and notes. I then toss the old page in the trash.
       | 
       | Every. Fucking. Day.
       | 
       | Works like magic.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | I use paper for my daily to-do. I take a 3x5 index card and write
       | what I need to do that day.
       | 
       | If I can't fit it on the card, I know I don't have a chance to
       | get it all done; in this way it's self-limiting.
        
       | nightowl_games wrote:
       | I literally just have a single text document called todo.md that
       | I write the date and what I want to do in it and then cross it
       | out when im done.
       | 
       | its good for remember what I was working on yesterday to keep a
       | smooth continuitity. Helps me get 'back on task' quick.
       | 
       | Its seriously just a single document with like 5 bullet points in
       | it each day. I barely ever scroll down. Latest day is always at
       | the top.
        
       | jcul wrote:
       | I agree on using paper, it's the only thing that works for me.
       | 
       | But I use a rocket book so I'm not going through endless notepads
       | and can optionally backup to PDF.
        
       | bengale wrote:
       | I try and keep it simple. Little reporter notebook so I'm not
       | using devices in meetings and things like that.
       | 
       | Then I transcribe whatever needs to be a little more long term at
       | the end of the day/week into either Apple notes or reminders.
       | Then rip the pages out and bin them.
       | 
       | Im tempted to get something like todoist to organise reminders a
       | little better but I'm cautious that it's the road to
       | procrastinating.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | > Im tempted to get something like todoist to organise
         | reminders a little better but I'm cautious that it's the road
         | to procrastinating.
         | 
         | Don't do it. I've been down that road. Giving up and simply
         | using Apple Note/Reminders is so much easier. I envy people who
         | just use the first thing that falls in their lap and go with
         | it. It's all good enough. Nothing is that much better to make
         | it worth the hunt.
        
       | Beijinger wrote:
       | I use simplenote.com with the nvpy client. Both are free.
        
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