[HN Gopher] Why has Japan been hit with rice shortages despite n...
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Why has Japan been hit with rice shortages despite normal crops?
Author : rntn
Score : 123 points
Date : 2024-08-27 11:19 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mainichi.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (mainichi.jp)
| Loughla wrote:
| So he says it's not because of tourism, but because of subsidies.
|
| But then in the next section says it's because demand outstrips
| supply because of things like tourism.
|
| What?
|
| This is a piece of political writing targeted at the Japanese
| land use and subsidy policy. Nothing more.
| adrian_b wrote:
| They have explained clearly enough.
|
| Their system of subsidies limits the production of rice, so
| they do not have any rice surplus.
|
| Because of that, even a very small increase in rice demand,
| like from having more tourists than expected in 2024 (I have
| also visited Japan this year, benefiting from the small prices
| after yen conversion) has been enough so that the demand could
| not be satisfied, resulting in increased prices.
|
| After tasting the Japanese rice in Japan, I agree with the
| article that their rice is by far the best and that the
| government policy of limiting the rice production is wrong and
| it would be much better for them to produce a rice surplus and
| attempt to export it.
|
| As they are aware, they could not compete directly with the
| cheaper rice from Thailand or other major exporters, but they
| could compete successfully in the "more expensive but better"
| rice category.
| mkesper wrote:
| Q: It's said that the decline in rice consumption is serious, but
| if the amount produced increased and the price went down, people
| would eat more, wouldn't they?
|
| A: Exactly. Rice acreage reduction is an absolutely terrible
| policy. The government spends over 300 billion yen (about $2.06
| billion) in subsidies annually to decrease the amount of rice
| produced, thus going out of its way to raise the price and
| increasing the burden on consumers.
| begueradj wrote:
| To be fair, that's a common practice even when it comes to non
| edible products (for example, coming from a petrol producing
| country, I grew up hearing every now and then about OPEC having
| decided to reduce petrol production to raise prices)
| inanutshellus wrote:
| Yes but per the article, this policy has been active for 60
| years. They're not temporarily buoying after a seasonal
| surplus, they're just paying farmers not to farm ..... for
| generations.
| downrightmike wrote:
| The USA has been doing that since the 1970's as land
| preservation.
| jacobr1 wrote:
| Which is dumb. Land should just be purchased for
| conservation (or other arrangements like easements with
| transfer on sale) to the government or private land
| conservatory groups. Endless subsidy is corrupt.
| ambyra wrote:
| Japan is an island, which can be blockaded, so they've
| always tried to help their farmers. Usually they pay the
| farmers to grow less, not pay them to grow nothing. Also
| this policy was phased out in 2018; now they're just
| subsidizing farmers and encouraging crop diversity. I
| think they're doing a good job. Being a farmer is always
| hard. In Japan at least they're making it easier.
| Encouraging crop diversity and organic farming is nice
| (especially compared to the us corn/soy situation).
| downrightmike wrote:
| Depleting the land in that manner is what caused the Dust
| Bowl. May sound dumb, but it is certainly not.
| rtkwe wrote:
| It also props up the price of various goods to keep them
| profitable to produce so farms don't go under by limiting
| the amount produced to avoid big gluts of produce.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| That's a great point. Reminds me of how currently in the
| Willamette valley of Oregon, grass seed prices are
| terrible because there's oversupply such that growers
| can't even sell last years crop at a profit, resulting in
| more oversupply.
|
| Some ground isn't suitable for much else than annual
| ryegrass, which does well on the clay mud in the hills
| and seasonal bogs. There's not much to switch to that can
| even handle the conditions.
|
| Other grass crops like different types of fescue are a
| multi year investments since the first year you don't get
| much from the field and it takes time to clean up the
| weed seeds. So flipping to another crop puts you in a big
| hole.
|
| Finally there's the generally six figure equipment to
| harvest any particular crop. A given harvester can only
| deal with a very limited selection of crops, and even
| then is often going to require configuration and tuning
| when switching to a compatible crop.
|
| I think the grape and hop guys might also be seeing
| something similar, but I'm not entirely sure.
|
| I can imagine that growers with fields configured for
| growing rice face similar issues. If price tanks, they
| don't have the flexibility to "just" pivot to something
| else as needed.
| downrightmike wrote:
| That's why we have subsidies.
| rtkwe wrote:
| One of many. Another is to just directly bribe farmers
| for political support in areas of the country given extra
| power by the structure of the US government where not
| every vote gets equal weight.
| logicchains wrote:
| The difference is that OPEC countries colluding to raise
| prices hurt other countries, not their own people (they
| generally subsidise petrol for their own citizens), whereas
| Japan's policy of artificially raising the price of Japanese
| rice hurts Japanese consumers, and Japanese consumers vastly
| outnumber Japanese farmers.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > Japanese consumers vastly outnumber Japanese farmers
|
| Japan is also a parliamentary system, and a significant
| portion of Single Member Seats in the House of
| Representatives are small towns or rural [0]
|
| Pissed off farmers caused the LDP to lose power in the 2009
| election [1], which is historic in a country that is a de
| facto one-party state.
|
| The LDP in 2024 is looking similarly weak like the LDP in
| 2009 so they cannot afford to anger the farming bloc.
|
| [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_of_
| the_Hou...
|
| [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Japanese_general
| _electi...
| pjc50 wrote:
| OPEC do that to raise _export_ prices. Quite often they have
| subsidized or really lightly taxed petrol for domestic use.
| EasyMark wrote:
| Are people moving to other crops that aren't as water intensive
| with all the global warming and erratic weather patterns that
| are developing around the world? Looks like from the article
| there isn't a significant decrease in rice production and
| "tourism" could only affect 0.5% so could it be artificial
| inflation like in the USA from limited competition that's been
| going on the past few years?
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| Actually, global warming is making Japan get more rain.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Global warming, climate _change_ is shifting weather
| patterns. While west coasts (California, the UK, Spain) are
| generally getting less rain, East coasts (Japan,
| Newfoundland, Florida) are generally getting hit with more
| rain and more storms.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| The UK is actually getting more and more rain because
| evaporation over the Atlantic increases with warming (I
| suppose same phenomenon as for Japan)... at least as long
| as the Gulf Stream keeps flowing.
| bamboozled wrote:
| There is no water shortage on a small island like Japan, it
| gets a LOT of rain, and really, when grown in the mountain
| areas (cmmon in Japan) the rice terraces probably slow the
| water flow down rather than speed it up (going via the river
| straight into the sea) somewhat watering the rice crops and
| all other life nearby.
|
| Rice doesn't actually need a lot of water to grow, they use
| the water as a type of weed control, rice is unique in that
| it can grow practically submersed in water. Most other
| species cannot.
|
| Bali has been experimenting growing rice without such large
| amounts of water, it went well. Google it!
| Dalewyn wrote:
| Why? Politics. Fin.
|
| The Japanese government has long managed the production of rice
| to keep market prices high for the farmers' sake and given
| subsidies to farmers to not fully utilize their production
| potential.
|
| Covid hit and tanked the demand moreso than usual, so government
| policies shifted to further production (read: supply) reductions.
| Less supply in response to reduced demand equals maintained
| market prices.
|
| Politics has not caught up in the post-covid era where demand
| from both domestic and international (including tourism) has
| recovered and surged. The supply is still mid-covid limited.
|
| Why? Politics. Fin.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Even great farmers can go out of business with just one really
| bad year.
|
| That's not really in your interest, either.
|
| The free market people will say - oh, someone else will just
| come in and take over the farm.
|
| Easier said than done.
|
| I'm not saying Japan has the best system, but it's probably
| nowhere near as bad as you think.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| >I'm not saying Japan has the best system, but it's probably
| nowhere near as bad as you think.
|
| I merely answered the _Why?_ in the clickbaity article title.
|
| As far as my thoughts on the policy, I think it's quite more
| reasonable than the far more popular western policy of
| letting the free market kill itself in a race to the bottom
| only to then be bought out by China.
|
| The current rice shortage isn't a problem to do with the
| policy, it's how it's being handled.
| Ekaros wrote:
| And all western countries all doing same type of or similar
| enough subsidy. EU is built on it. Free market on food is
| only something pushed on lesser nations...
| willcipriano wrote:
| With the current high food prices, US taxpayers will be
| pleased to know that they will spend about 4 billion this
| year on ensuring the farmers don't grow too much food
| (this total is up from last year due to the inflation
| reduction act)
| alephnerd wrote:
| So be it. Votes talk, and neither party has margins to
| risk.
| willcipriano wrote:
| They don't care about votes outside of the swing states.
|
| They care about the people who have been getting those
| billions for decades spending a small portion of it
| against them. Also they are concerned for their family
| members who happen to be upstanding people who landed in
| great jobs at charities owned by the people who get the
| billions to not feed people.
| randomdata wrote:
| _> With the current high food prices_
|
| High prices? 2022 is but a distant memory now. As a
| farmer, I haven't seen food prices this low, nominally,
| since the bottom of the mid-2010s crash, and if you
| account for inflation it doesn't look like food has
| _ever_ been as cheap as it is right now!
|
| Perhaps you mean the current high price of convenience?
| It does seem the grocery stores keep pushing prices
| higher even as the price of food keeps going down, down,
| down.
| ForOldHack wrote:
| Partially true. Rising grocery prices and falling food
| commodity food prices. Where is all that money going?
| Look no further than corporate land ownership.
| WillAdams wrote:
| As my grandfather (who along w/ his father-in-law, and my
| great-great-grandfather) was a farmer:
|
| >Never complain about how farming is managed and paid for
| when your belly is full.
| inanutshellus wrote:
| With the policy being active, non-stop, for 60 years (as
| opposed to temporary incentives to buoy farmers during a bad
| year) it's clearly politicking. Especially given the sleight-
| of-hand from the Abe administration (as mentioned in the
| article) where they claimed to kill the subsidy but actually
| only killed its limitations. In short - not sure why you've
| been downvoted.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| > The crop situation index for rice grown in 2023, indicating the
| amount of the rice harvest, was 101
|
| Does that mean that each acre is producing about 100% of the
| average production, or that the total production is about 100% of
| the average production?
|
| The article makes it sound like the change in production is
| neglectable and that the change in demand is tiny, implying that
| a high estimate would be about 0.5% increase in demand.
| freeone3000 wrote:
| Crop situation index is percentage yield of the area
| cultivated. 2023 had 101% of the expected yield per area, so
| it's not a bad harvest (2022 had a 96 due to the typhoon, for
| instance). Which means the high price of rice results from some
| combination of increased consumption or reduced cultivation
| area.
| pm90 wrote:
| Im somewhat baffled by this policy... just produce as much rice
| as you can, buy surplus from farmers and give it out cheap/free
| as food assistance to developing countries. Surely a small cost
| to the Government to get a steady, controlled production numbers.
| rglullis wrote:
| And then get accused of dumping by the WTO?
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _then get accused of dumping by the WTO?_
|
| Plenty of countries have subsidised or even free food
| programmes. (EDIT: Nvm, missed "to developing countries.")
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Dumping is not related to subsidized or free food programs.
| Dumping is about offloading a ton of cheap product in
| another country.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Providing free food to poor countries runs the food producers
| out of business in those countries and counter intuitively
| harms their food security
| erremerre wrote:
| Then give it to your enemies, send it to North Korea!
| rasz wrote:
| More money for Nuke development aimed at Japan?
| inanutshellus wrote:
| then... you could dump it in the ocean and feed fish to help
| the fishing industry (which arguably would be a wise thing
| anyway given Japan's love of seafood). IIRC the USA did
| (does?) that with corn.
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| Isn't that also how we ended up having corn in so much food
| we produce.
| ambicapter wrote:
| Dumping it into the ocean? Probably not.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| That would be particularly stupid : agriculture is not
| something sustainable (at scales of thousands of years),
| and especially not agriculture using fertilizer based on
| fossil fuels (only sustainable at scales of hundreds of
| years ?), which I presume Japanese farmers use ?
|
| And you suggest that they deplete this non-renewable
| resource faster ?
| inanutshellus wrote:
| The intent was to strategically react to crises, as
| opposed to the existing perpetual (60 years and counting)
| bribe program.
|
| Strategically/rarely buying and dumping excessively cheap
| grain would bolster farmers' livelihoods, prevent price
| collapse, and... some fish get fed one time.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Then the farmers are incentivized to overproduce every
| year because the government will buy the crops
| inanutshellus wrote:
| Crisis inherently implies rarity. If every day for sixty
| years is a crisis, it's time to reevaluate bigger life
| choices. Feels like we're just having fun poking invented
| holes rather than arguing in good faith here.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| You react to crises by storing grain. Not by dumping it
| or by underproducing.
| inanutshellus wrote:
| No the problem is overproduction. Storing grain would
| give you even more grain, further increasing the crisis
| (which is price, not availability).
| marcosdumay wrote:
| You solve temporary overproduction with storage.
|
| You solve permanent overproduction with mobbing people
| together and demanding that the government stops
| mandating it. Because it only exists when the government
| mandates it.
|
| If you want to soften the blow into people that have to
| learn how to grow some completely different crop. You go
| and do that, you don't create an entire class entitled to
| permanent societal support for not working.
| nothackerfox wrote:
| This is true. In the spirit of charity, what if we kill more
| businesses? Seems like doing good in the world can also have
| negative impacts we may not be aware of.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Selling it on the open world market should benefit the
| world the most.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| It still boils down to dumping. This is a hard problem.
|
| You don't want the global markets determining that you
| have a competitive disadvantage relative to peers and
| thus want to import all of your food and abandon your
| domestic production.
|
| You also don't want farmers hitting the prisoners dilemma
| issue of producing as much crop as possible because then
| farms die from competition. And again letting them die is
| not good for a critical industry like food.
|
| Paying farmers to underutilize their land is a less
| insane idea than it sounds.
| wolpoli wrote:
| Then they could give free food to countries that are
| experiencing short-term famine through natural or man-made
| disasters. In such a situation, consumers are helped and
| producers aren't really able to increase production in
| response to the high price - hence a famine.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| I would say that aid to developing countries is the one thing
| that has failed over and over again to improve them. Even China
| raw exploitation of those countries probably brings more
| development to a country than aid.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > buy surplus from farmers
|
| With what money?
|
| Japan already has some of the highest debt-to-GDP ratios in the
| world, the Yen is increasingly unstable, and much of the budget
| is spent on the Japanese Welfare system that cannot be messed
| with or you are committing political suicide along with rising
| defense expenditures that are now required due to North Korea's
| military buildup.
|
| The existing status quo is good enough to keep farmers happy
| (and not switching their vote) while leaving money on the table
| to be used for social spending, defense, and debt payments.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| Japan's government debt is owed to... Japan, mostly the Bank
| of Japan (ie, the government). Ironically the yen is weak
| because Japanese interest rates are low, _because Japanese
| prices have barely nudged since 1990_ , averaging
| approximately no inflation until roughly last year. If
| anything, Japan isn't printing nearly enough yen. They can
| afford to spend more and tax less.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > If anything, Japan isn't printing nearly enough money
|
| Japan has very low wages compared to other OECD countries
| (the average wage in Japan is only around $25,000), so
| inflation - especially the kind you are proposing - is
| catastrophic, especially given how a significant proportion
| of the population is on a fixed income due to retirement or
| social subsidizes due to un- or underemployment.
|
| This is why the Japanese government tries to limit
| inflation to 2%.
|
| > because Japanese prices have barely nudged since 1990
|
| Because of significant government intervention.
| soperj wrote:
| > Because of significant government intervention.
|
| Interest rates have been negative for nearly 2 decades.
| What significant government intervention has there been
| to keep inflation low?
|
| Personally I don't know why they didn't just raise the
| minimum wage.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > Interest rates have been negative for nearly 2 decades
|
| Nope.
|
| Only since 2015 when the Japanese economy entered a
| recession and CPI rose to 4%.
|
| > What significant government intervention has there been
| to keep inflation low
|
| Negative inflation rates, impacting the ability to borrow
| further.
|
| The expansive welfare system that allows 2% of the
| poorest Japanese to get direct benefits transfers (it's a
| great program, but very expensive, so other priorities
| are lower).
|
| Price controls on utilities and some crops like Wheat.
|
| > I don't know why they didn't just raise the minimum
| wage
|
| Because Japan has a very extensive set of FTAs, and
| before 2015 a very high youth unemployment rate (8-12%).
|
| If Japan raised the minimum wage, employers would leave
| for South Korea, Taiwan, China, ASEAN, and India.
| soperj wrote:
| > Nope.
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/18/business/japan-boj-
| negative-i...
|
| First rate hike in 17 years this year.
|
| > Negative inflation rates, impacting the ability to
| borrow further.
|
| Government doesn't set the inflation rate.
|
| > The expansive welfare system that allows 2% of the
| poorest Japanese to get direct benefits transfers (it's a
| great program, but very expensive, so other priorities
| are lower). Price controls on utilities and some crops
| like Wheat.
|
| Those would lead to higher inflation, not lower.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > First rate hike in 17 years this year
|
| That does NOT mean interest rates were negative.
|
| Negative interest rates were only applied in 2015 [0]
|
| > Government doesn't set the inflation rate.
|
| Typo. I meant interest rates.
|
| [0] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IRSTCI01JPM156N
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| > Japan has very low wages... so inflation is
| catastrophic
|
| Wages increase with government spending (and inflation),
| unless productivity falls a lot or there's a huge wealth
| transfer from labor to capital. When the government
| prints a bunch of money and uses it to purchase a bunch
| of rice from Japanese farmers, that money ends up as
| higher wages for farmers and their supply chain, and this
| in turn circulates throughout the economy, as one
| farmer's spending is another retail worker's wages.
|
| This doesn't help retirees of course, who aren't earning
| any more, but the government can choose to hand them more
| money too if necessary; inflation-indexed pensions are a
| policy choice. (Although I would say that they should be
| handing more money to young children, in the custody of
| their parents).
| alephnerd wrote:
| I don't feel like arguing with a tech bro so just read
| the Bank of Japan's monetary policy doc [0]
|
| Price stability is the PRIMARY and ONLY goal due to
| political considerations.
|
| [0] - https://www.boj.or.jp/en/mopo/outline/index.htm
| CharlieDigital wrote:
| With what money?
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like they are
| already paying them to under-produce. So why not just pay
| them to produce the excess and then...do something with it?
| Sell it to other countries, donate it as humanitarian aid to
| areas like Gaza, Ukraine, etc.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > but it sounds like they are already paying them to under-
| produce
|
| Not as much as if they were subsidizing the cost directly.
|
| In this case the loss is on the consumer's end.
| ForOldHack wrote:
| "People also ask Why is Japanese yen so weak today? Why is
| the yen losing value? There are several factors, but it is
| mainly a "product of divergent monetary policy between the
| Bank of Japan and its developed-market peers -- particularly
| the Federal Reserve," said Barron's."
| alephnerd wrote:
| Ironically, the issue is the Yen's appreciation.
|
| The Japanese Budget for FY24 and FY25 was made before the
| sudden appreciation of the Yen suddenly made a number of
| calculations moot.
| InDubioProRubio wrote:
| Then do a hasty non-thought through turn towards green fuels
| and watch as the poor developing countries whose poor you fed
| for years, tear there governments a new one, shredding your
| regional diplomacy policy.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring
|
| Welcome to policy dependency hell.. its getting heated.. but
| gradually..
| downrightmike wrote:
| Farm land conservation in the face of climate change is a good
| thing the USA has been doing it for generations. Depleting the
| land just because you can is a bad idea.
| downrightmike wrote:
| Depleting the land in that manner is what caused the Dust
| Bowl
| miragecraft wrote:
| A lot of countries have a national food reserve that is used to
| calm prices when demand fluctuates, it allows time to adjust
| production while you're putting food in or out of the reserve to
| control prices.
|
| Does Japan not have that?
| phonon wrote:
| https://www.bastillepost.com/global/article/4076639-japans-r...
|
| "Japan's rice stockpile has dropped to its lowest level in this
| century due to a prolonged heatwave in 2023 and rising domestic
| demand, causing concerns among residents about high prices."
| lvspiff wrote:
| Probably for the same reason strategically placed tea
| reserves all around china just incase someone wants to steal
| it "all"...the idea of Japan having a massive underground
| cave complex for rice is amusing to me for some reason. I
| know its not how it works but the next big earthquake could
| open up a lava flow and produce a giant rice krispy field and
| then we'd just have to lure the stay-puff marshmallow man
| into that field...
| mey wrote:
| Is there a list of food reserves that each country
| maintains? I feel like that would be an interesting/funny
| cultural insight. Like the US Cheese Stockpile or the
| Canada Maple Syrup Reserve.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Gotta include the at-home stocks which is going to be
| harder/more variable to measure.
|
| Though if you have diversity in your crop production,
| _usually_ when one thing does badly, something else does
| better, especially if your country is big.
|
| When COVID first hit, I did an estimate of how much food
| I had on hand (without even intentionally trying to
| stockpile) and I figure I could live 6-8 months without
| leaving.
| bell-cot wrote:
| So Japan has a stockpile...but is not competent to manage it.
| I'd guess that's the usual story of too-numerous and long-
| calcified bureaucrats, overseen by oblivious and uncaring
| politicians.
|
| (From a few quick searches, it looks like rice will last 5+
| years with proper storage.)
| ForOldHack wrote:
| " Why has Japan been hit with rice shortages, soaring prices
| despite normal crops? (Answer: acreage reduction!)"
|
| They claim to have enough.
| empath75 wrote:
| I wonder how much of this is actually just inflation. The first
| sign of inflation is shortages, usually, and then people raise
| prices to keep the goods on the shelf.
| rawgabbit wrote:
| TLDR. The expert Kazuhito Yamashita argues:
| Japan is only producing about half of the rice it could
| potentially produce. This is due to government policy
| that pays farmers not to grow to prevent falling prices.
| Argues in the current geopolitical climate with the potential of
| a food blockade, this policy should be abandoned. If
| abandoned, Japan will become one of the largest rice exporters
| which he argues is better for Japanese food security.
| philipov wrote:
| It sounds like an XY problem. They don't want the price to fall
| because then farming wouldn't be profitable, but they're paying
| farmers to not profit off sales anyway. Instead of subsidizing
| half the farmers to do nothing, they should subsidize all the
| farmers, half as much, and allow the price to drop by half.
| k8wk1 wrote:
| The amount of annual subsidies is around $2 billion. It's a
| tiny number for a country as large as Japan. Their GDB is $4
| trillion per year.
| gruez wrote:
| Anything is small if you choose a big enough denominator
| (eg. GDP). What's the total value rice production in japan?
| This source[1] values all agricultural output at $29B,
| which means rice subsidy alone is 6.9% of agricultural
| production.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agricultural_output_
| Japan...
| mistrial9 wrote:
| it is not a simple number.. people who operate business on
| the commodity scale, often have very low profits and
| therefore, have lower spending power economically.. in
| other words, lots of farmers tend to live close to a kind
| of poverty. Meanwhile, in the center of some kind of fast
| and loose economics, like entertainment for example.. lots
| of economic spending power is traded very quickly.. plenty
| of people in the entertainment industries do not live close
| to poverty at all..
|
| Large economic systems in real life have economic niches.
| Government policy levers change the basic flow patterns..
| it is often a matter of life and death
| alephnerd wrote:
| > The amount of annual subsidies is around $2 billion. It's
| a tiny number for a country as large as Japan. Their GDB is
| $4 trillion per year.
|
| Their Debt-to-GDP ratio is 263% (so around $9 trillion in
| debt), and the government's budget is only $1.2 trillion
| per year, so it becomes very difficult to maneuver,
| especially due to the increased Yen volatility.
|
| The current status quo keeps farmers happy and voting for
| the LDP, while continuing to fund Japan's very generous and
| very expensive welfare system that everyone loves.
|
| Mainichi is also the opposition newspaper and election
| season is approaching in Japan due to Kishida's scandals
| leading to his resignation.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Sounds like dairy in Canada. We basically have a taxi medallion
| system for milk.
|
| Result: high prices (basically a regressive tax), personal
| import limits that haven't increased in 3+ decades, artificial
| barriers to entry (good luck becoming a dairy farmer unless you
| inherited a farm or take out a massive loan before even
| starting) & low per capita production for a country that could
| be a dairy exporting juggernaut.
|
| New Zealand is currently the biggest dairy exporter. Canada,
| despite being a massive agri-exporter for other products, not
| even in the top 15.
| codersfocus wrote:
| This reminds me of restaurants a bit.
|
| You can price your menu high, such that it's mostly empty but
| sustainable.
|
| The other option is pricing things low, and having the tables
| always be full. But of course, the employees need to work
| more.
| ForOldHack wrote:
| It is not. It is producing a two tier market. "As of January
| 2024, India was the world's largest rice exporter, shipping
| 16.5 million metric tons of rice. India's rice is known for its
| quality and aroma, and is shipped to many countries, including
| varieties like Basmati and non-Basmati. India's rice exports
| support millions of farmers and help the country's economy. "
| And India and Tialand are benefitting.
| binary132 wrote:
| I'm sure they would never do that here. Our price increases are
| completely organic, natural, and market-driven, as always. Pay no
| attention to the man behind the curtain.
| garibaldy wrote:
| yet another success of planned economy
| InDubioProRubio wrote:
| yes, why cant we just all have the great depression 100 time..
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
| dade_ wrote:
| There is strong evidence that attempts to fix the depression
| actually made it worse and prolonged it. One take of many:
| https://www.econlib.org/policy-failure-during-the-great-
| depr...
| gradientsrneat wrote:
| Article claims USA/Europe no longer have crop reduction
| policies in place because "they know that producing more and
| exporting it brings greater benefits than reducing the amount
| produced." Japan's approach does indeed seem more
| controlling. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.
|
| Edit: Article also says "western" countries subsidize farmers
| to protect them from price drops of oversupply.
| DoneWithAllThat wrote:
| They're claiming...... tourism is the reason for increased
| demand? Seriously?
| mistrial9 wrote:
| sounds like an emotional appeal to a political situation, not
| at all factual. Politics in practice are full of this
| (challenge - rearrange those four letters)
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Many are missing the cultural aspect. This isn't all about the
| government protecting the price. There is a second order issue.
| If the price dropped, Japanese farmers would react by reducing
| costs, by bringing in new tech and consolidating small farms into
| larger agri-businesses. Japan wants avoid the cultural changes
| that would bring to rural areas, areas that many believe to be
| the heart of Japanese culture.
| DataDaemon wrote:
| Soon in Europe, only the protests stopped for a moment.
| abeppu wrote:
| > A: People across the world say, "It's the best-tasting rice in
| the world, so why isn't more of it being exported?" Japanese
| agricultural officials often comment, "We can't compete with
| cheap rice produced in Thailand and elsewhere," but that's not
| the case. Just like you have luxury and standard cars, there are
| different kinds of rice. Luxury cars won't lose out to ordinary
| ones even if the price is higher.
|
| Totally not the point of this, but is Japanese rice really "the
| best-tasting"? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy California-produced
| Japanese-style short-grained varieties (I'm not sure whether I've
| bought actual Japanese-grown rice) -- in some applications. But
| sometimes you want a jasmine or a basmati or something else, and
| it seems like that's a matter of preference and what you're used
| to and what other food you're eating it with, more than "better"
| or "luxury".
| solarmist wrote:
| "It's the best-tasting rice in the world" is typical Japanese
| hyperbole in the same way they brag about having four seasons.
|
| I'm sure it's excellent, but in the end, it's just rice. A
| blind taste test would be random noise. I sure can't remember
| there being a material different in the rice I ate in Japan vs
| good Japanese food in Cali.
|
| Hell, even if you included jasmine or basmati, I'll bet most
| western people wouldn't even be able to tell those apart from
| Japanese short-grained rice.
|
| Edit: western people
| abeppu wrote:
| I mean, different kinds of rice do have clearly different
| textures, and basmati and jasmine are both aromatic in a way
| that koshikihari is not. I think people should be able to
| tell them apart easily (including just from "how easy is this
| to eat with chopsticks? could I imagine clumping this into
| the base of nigiri sushi? could I imagine this in a
| biryani?") but I think that's very different from deciding
| that one is better. To me your statement is like saying
| people cannot tell the difference a French baguette, focaccia
| and Japanese milk bread because "it's just bread". I think
| you wouldn't confuse them unless you were really distracted.
| solarmist wrote:
| I agree with you and can tell, but I doubt most people
| around me could. They could understand each type of rice is
| different but wouldn't have a clue which is which.
|
| It was a bit of hyperbole, but I think you'd be surprised
| how undifferentiated people's pallets can be if they aren't
| eating something constantly.
| djtango wrote:
| Please don't project your own opinions of a staple that
| people eat sometimes 3 meals a day onto others.
|
| I'll beat your blind taste test everyday of the week just by
| rolling the rice around in my mouth
|
| EDIT fwiw you can vaguely bucket 1.4 billion people into "eat
| basmati" 673M+1.4B people into "eat jasmine" and 150M+50M
| into "eat short grain" rice which is well over a third of the
| planet
| solarmist wrote:
| I agree with you. I can tell them apart (Not Japanese vs.
| California rice, though).
|
| I should have qualified that to randomly selected
| Americans/Europeans. And that they could understand each
| type of rice is different but wouldn't have a clue which is
| which.
| djtango wrote:
| I would enjoy a California be Japanese blind taste test.
| My mother in law has started buying Vietnamese-grown
| Japanese short grain - I think I can taste the difference
| but it could also be the cooking method
|
| As a cash strapped student I would buy Korean short grain
| as it was cheaper
| solarmist wrote:
| Yeah, the cooking method (and the water it's cooked in)
| has a much larger effect than the origin of the rice.
| duffyjp wrote:
| My wife is Japanese and we buy Japanese style rice grown in
| California (Nishiki Premium). She still complains it isn't as
| good, but my theory is it's actually the water used in prep.
| Our Wisconsin water is incredibly hard, and water in Tokyo
| won't scale a kettle EVER. It's very, very good.
| cynicalkane wrote:
| Try The Rice Factory, a rice importer in New York state. They
| import prize rice from Japan, in refrigerated containers.
| It's a clear step up in quality from anything grown in
| California.
| Spivak wrote:
| Well yeah, but you're comparing steak from the blue ribbon
| cow to Tyson, I sure hope they win. You might still be
| right about regional quality but you should at least
| compare the best both have to offer.
|
| I would be amazed if rice grown by Japanese immigrants like
| Koda or Tamkai couldn't reach the level and it really was
| the land that made the difference.
| j7ake wrote:
| Test your theory by using distilled or soft water to make
| your rice.
| sabareesh wrote:
| Nailed it, More often it is the water than the other
| ingredient even with the coffee
| dageshi wrote:
| Especially with coffee, the difference between hard and
| soft water when making coffee is very noticeable.
| gopher_space wrote:
| My family buys bags of flour every time we're in Canada
| because the old recipes apparently don't taste quite right
| with anything else. We'll probably keep doing it because it's
| kind of fun.
| comeonbro wrote:
| Canadian "all-purpose" flour has a higher gluten content
| than American "all-purpose" flour. It's closer to American
| "bread flour".
|
| That's aside from whatever harder-to-measure taste
| differences it might have, but it makes a big difference by
| itself.
| genocidicbunny wrote:
| You could run an experiment pretty trivially to determine if
| the hardness of the water is the issue. Get one of those
| charcoal filters, get some coffee filters, and cook some rice
| with various combinations of the filtering.
|
| The previous place I lived in had very hard water, and I
| found that running the water through both a coffee filter and
| then a Brita charcoal filter worked rather well to soften the
| water and improve the quality of the rice I was cooking.
| mandevil wrote:
| If a "Japanese agricultural official" is not claiming that
| Japan produces the best-tasting rice in the world, he is
| failing at his job! His job is to promote Japanese agriculture,
| at home and abroad.
|
| As you say, there are different kinds of rice that taste and
| feel differently, and you should use the right one for your
| recipe, but debating with a marketing person about their
| superlative is a futile exercise.
| Spivak wrote:
| Yep, I'm sure Ohio has the best corn in the world if you ask
| the ODA and New York has the best pizza if you ask their
| tourism division.
| darby_nine wrote:
| > If a "Japanese agricultural official" is not claiming that
| Japan produces the best-tasting rice in the world, he is
| failing at his job!
|
| Surely this would be better served with a believable
| statement rather than blatantly subjective hyperbole.
| rasz wrote:
| >Luxury cars won't lose out to ordinary ones even if the price
| is higher.
|
| meet Lexus LFA vs Corvette.
| georgeecollins wrote:
| That's a really interesting comparison because the LFA is
| such a good car. But the Corvette has much more brand equity
| because its been what it is longer than most of its buyers
| have been alive. The LFA just wasn't around long enough to
| build broad awareness. A closer comparison is 911 vs
| Corvette. You can always charge more for a 911, both cars
| have a ton of brand loyalty. The 911 is the Japanese rice,
| the Corvette is the California rice :)
| AlbertCory wrote:
| This calls out for a Triangle Test! There are a lot of Japanese
| where I live, and grocery stores that cater to them. It would
| be easy to test whether people really _can_ tell the
| difference.
| dmoy wrote:
| The best rice I've had is in far northeastern China
| (Heilongjiang or Jilin province). Which seems weird to me given
| the geography, but I guess I don't know shit about rice
| farming.
| pragmomm wrote:
| Many studies have shown that the heavy metal content in
| (Chinese) rice exceeds food safety standards, especially
| levels of cadium (Cd) and lead (Pb)
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9754602/
| dmoy wrote:
| Yea I mean I would not be surprised about this either. See
| also: sketchy cooking oil (sometimes literally transported
| in fuel tankers?), sketchy milk, etc etc. Food safety in
| China is still getting up to speed.
|
| Though if we're talking specifically about heavy metals,
| iirc northeastern China has better (lower) heavy metal
| levels compared to a lot of other parts of China
| maxglute wrote:
| I think Japanese rice in a decent Japanese rice cooker with
| millions of engineering hours poured into competently cooking
| Japanese rice consistently produces pretty great rice. Flavour
| / texture wise, I'd pick Thai rice cooked from stove top over
| it any day.
| zoogeny wrote:
| Just one man's anecdote: I worked a short walk from a specialty
| Japanese food store when I lived in New York city. It was the
| kind of place that had fresh produce and fish/meat flown in
| from Japan a few days per week. They had a very large section
| of Japanese rice that had been produced in Japan (e.g. all of
| the packaging including ingredients etc. were in Japanese and
| the store manually overlaid printed labeled stickers in
| English). I pretty much exclusively ate rice I bought there for
| 2 or 3 years cooked in a mid-range Zojirushi rice cooker (as an
| aside - this is my favorite and most used kitchen appliance to
| this day and I would replace it in a heart beat if it ever
| stops working)
|
| The premium brands of Japanese rice that I would buy were
| slightly better than the current Kokuho Rose brand I get now
| (this is the best I can find in semi-rural Canada). The biggest
| difference in quality were brown rice variants (e.g. genmai)
| that I have been unable to find anywhere else. But the short-
| grain white rice weren't so much better that I really miss
| them. The quality is maybe 5% better but the cost to have it
| imported here is more than double, so very much not worth it.
| herdrick wrote:
| There is no rice shortage in Japan currently, at least not in the
| sense of the word 'shortage' in economics. Prices are not held
| artificially low (they are influenced by the state in a market-
| friendly way through restrictions in supply), and so we see that
| rice is as available as ever, just at a higher price than last
| year.
| eriri wrote:
| Available as ever? Here at Tokyo, rice aisles are literally
| empty right now in stores everywhere.
| herdrick wrote:
| Oh wow! Sorry about that. Empty aisles, i.e. a true shortage,
| only happens due to an artificially low price -- do you know
| what is holding the price down in this case? Perhaps price
| gouging laws? Or (misguided) big chain stores' policies
| against big price increases?
|
| I recommend little mom-and-pop stores. Typically they feel
| free to quietly charge a market-clearing price.
| bsder wrote:
| > Empty aisles, i.e. a true shortage, only happens due to
| an artificially low price
|
| That's not true due to Always Late Inventory(tm). See:
| Covid and toilet paper in the US.
|
| Because inventory is optimized to almost nothing, a demand
| shock can strip the shelves (the last remaining point of
| inventory) before pricing can adjust. Super-optimization
| means that supply has very little ability to increase and
| it would take many months to backfill the drained edge
| inventory. Prices shoot up, but don't actually make a dent
| as there is enough inelastic demand to always drain the
| incremental inventory resupply.
|
| Add in the fact that a harvest is a specific point in time
| while consumption is continuous and it's really easy to
| wind up in a shortage situation that takes a remarkably
| long time to correct.
| knowitnone wrote:
| this article is completely bogus. there is no shortage. this was
| done on purpose via government policy
| tjpnz wrote:
| Wife bought a big bag of white rice yesterday. You can still find
| it although not necessarily at big supermarkets.
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