[HN Gopher] Olivetti Programma 101: At the Origins of the Person...
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       Olivetti Programma 101: At the Origins of the Personal Computer
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 133 points
       Date   : 2024-08-25 20:20 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.inexhibit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.inexhibit.com)
        
       | wenc wrote:
       | I remember Olivetti PCs from the late 80s to 90s. They were
       | beautifully designed -- not SGI or Sun beautiful -- but beautiful
       | for PCs. I like the "grate" design.
       | 
       | https://www.ebay.com/itm/325569104545
       | 
       | The IBM PS/2 Model 30 was also quite beautiful
       | 
       | https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/userdata/images/large/56...
        
         | BirAdam wrote:
         | https://www.ebay.com/itm/166770231506?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid...
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | My favorite comes from before the PC era:
           | 
           | https://www.ebay.ie/itm/176082135417
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | I worked at Olivetti's Advanced Technology Labs in Cupertino
         | until 1989. We were really making some wonderful stuff then,
         | but the company itself was having trouble, and some scandals.
         | The executive staff were always being arrested for one thing or
         | another (see https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/03/world/accused-
         | olivetti-ch... for example).
         | 
         | We paid more attention to cases, fasteners, and design than
         | most other clone vendors.
         | 
         | I left out of frustration and joined a little company that put
         | a stack-based programming language inside laser printers.
        
           | 082349872349872 wrote:
           | Did you edit with `jet` by any chance?
           | 
           | Lagniappe: https://www.scaruffi.com/history/long.html
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | would you say it's more like lisp or more like forth? this
           | has been a topic of argument
        
             | fortran77 wrote:
             | It's more like forth if I had to pick one. Though it is
             | very lispy -- you can pass functions as objects, etc.
             | 
             | I was quite good at programming in it back in the day.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | you may enjoy my friend nathan's
               | http://postscriptcode.com/
               | 
               | he says it's more like forth, i disagree
        
         | NikkiA wrote:
         | The IBM PS/1 was the machine I coveted for its beauty, but it
         | was overpriced and underspecced when I could finally think
         | about one; so a generic beige 386-40 it was.
        
         | AlexDragusin wrote:
         | Started on an AT&T 6300 (Olivetti M24)
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivetti_M24#/media/File:Vinta...
         | 
         | Oh, the memories! Great thing was the keyboard, gave the user
         | certain assurance and stability, not sure how would I explain
         | it but those of you who used these, would instantly know what I
         | mean.
        
           | rjsw wrote:
           | The keyboard on the AT&T 6300 looks different to that for the
           | Olivetti M24, just comparing the pictures on the wikipedia
           | page.
           | 
           | I had an M24, with the original design of Logitech mouse that
           | plugged into the keyboard.
        
           | leoc wrote:
           | The keyboard with the strongest psychological boost I've ever
           | experienced is the M0116 Apple Standard Keyboard
           | https://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Standard_Keyboard
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY7XXo5uEZI with its old ALPS
           | (Orange, or sometimes Salmon) switches. Every time you press
           | a few keys the little voice in your head tells you
           | (accurately or not!) "Yes, I have accomplished something
           | meaningful. Significant work is being done here." It's really
           | quite self-defeating that Apple can't find the pocket change
           | necessary to bring back Apple keyboards with early ALPS
           | switches, especially now that it's relatively serious about
           | desktop computing again. Things could be a lot worse though:
           | seven years after introducing the M0116 Apple put out the
           | M2980 Apple "Design" "Keyboard"
           | https://deskthority.net/wiki/AppleDesign_Keyboard which could
           | leave you pining for death.
        
         | reidrac wrote:
         | My first PC was an Olivetti Prodest PC1, and it felt a natural
         | design back then coming from the "wedge" design of the 8 and 16
         | bit machines of the time, as in "the computer is the keyboard".
         | 
         | http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/prodestpc1.html
         | 
         | I appreciate now how different the design was!
        
         | leoc wrote:
         | Yes, Olivetti PCs frequently looked nice. The sting in the tail
         | was incompatibility with third-party components, combined with
         | high prices.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | the thing i like most about these is that, though normally
       | they're executing their machine code from the keyboard like a
       | normal calculator, the 'v', 'w', 'y', and 'z' keys jump to user-
       | defined machine code addresses and start executing code from
       | memory. i think that's an inspiring way to provide an application
       | with programmable function keys on a really extremely limited
       | computer, far too small for even forth
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | Looking at eBay, 20.000 EUR
        
         | dvh wrote:
         | That's only $2000 adjusted for inflation (from 1965)
        
       | erie wrote:
       | Back in the 80s, having their typewriters allowing you to delete
       | the last 4 characters was cutting-edge material. Then a tiny
       | screen was a 'wow moment'.
        
       | arabello wrote:
       | Silicon Valley might have started in Italy with Olivetti, but
       | political issues and unfortunate events stopped it from
       | happening. There's a great podcast about it (Italian):
       | https://podcast.ilsole24ore.com/serie/olivetti-occasione-per...
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | The way I heard the story, Olivetti management had planned on
         | naming their new Z8000-based machine the "M16", for 16-bits,
         | and luckily a few americans were able to convince them that, in
         | at least one non-italian country, this syntactic space was
         | already occupied.
         | 
         | (these days it seems it may take some bubble-wrangling to
         | convince uncle Google that when I type "t3x" I want, not Tikka,
         | but NMH)
        
       | mattkevan wrote:
       | Olivetti also owned Acorn Computer, inventor of the ARM
       | processor, although Dave began a good few years before they
       | bought it. Apparently the project was so secret that Olivetti
       | didn't know about it until the purchase was complete.
        
       | lnxg33k1 wrote:
       | The best thing I know about Olivetti, is that nearby my city,
       | there is a small village, where there are houses, schools,
       | nurseries, etc. and Olivetti production centers, where Olivetti's
       | employees were living, it is a great concept to be an innovative
       | company, but also really think about the wellbeing of your
       | employees, that is now lost, now they maybe give you a pizza,
       | some ping pong, and as soon as you're not useful, you're just
       | discarded, the american system is a disgrace
        
       | begueradj wrote:
       | At least Italy is still interesting when it comes to software
       | development. Unlike Japan which had a good start but it is not
       | that good anymore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky1nGQhHTso)
        
         | alfiopuglisi wrote:
         | Depends. For example cupy (https://github.com/cupy/cupy) is
         | developed by a Japanese company and I find it extremely
         | effective.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | There's also a language called Ruby. I wonder if people have
           | heard about it.
        
         | jojobas wrote:
         | Japan just quickly reached a "good enough" state and decided to
         | stay there. Like banks with their COBOL codebase but
         | everywhere.
        
         | stenardo wrote:
         | > At least Italy is still interesting when it comes to software
         | development
         | 
         | nope
        
         | mrighele wrote:
         | > At least Italy is still interesting when it comes to software
         | development.
         | 
         | Do you have an example ? Doesn't look to me like there is that
         | much great software written in Italy. If you ask me the only
         | thing that comes to my mind right now is antirez and Redis, but
         | then the same can be said about Japan (Matz and Ruby)
        
       | 2dvisio wrote:
       | Still have one of those tucked away at my father's place. He used
       | to use it at the beginning of his career to run calculations for
       | engineering structural computations before Acca and other similar
       | softwares (in Italy due to very active seismic activity you need
       | to run these sorts of calculations also for very small
       | structures).
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | if we believe the commenter below about ebay prices, you might
         | be able to buy a new car if you sell it
        
       | agentcooper wrote:
       | Somewhat related: Steve Job's 1983 talk at Aspen design
       | conference (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Q7gXwavUU) where he
       | argues that all good designers are now busy with automobiles and
       | buildings and no one is looking at personal computers.
        
       | crispyambulance wrote:
       | Olivetti had a number of iconic products both from a
       | technological and design perspective.
       | 
       | My favorites (in addition to the Programma 101) was the Divisumma
       | calculator and the Valentine typewriter.
       | 
       | https://www.massmadesoul.com/olivetti-divisumma-18
       | https://www.massmadesoul.com/olivetti-valentine
       | 
       | Absolutely gorgeous looks.
        
         | archerx wrote:
         | That calculator reminds me of Neumorphism. Its seems like there
         | really is nothing new under that sun.
         | 
         | https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/neumorp...
        
         | inejge wrote:
         | The Valentine is famous among the designers, but the truly
         | popular model is the Lettera 22[1]: many journalists and
         | writers, famous or not, used it, and of course it had a hipster
         | revival. (Also a beautiful machine.)
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivetti_Lettera_22
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | In 1966, we had one in the Stuyvesant HS computer room, along
       | with an IBM 1130 system that ran Fortran 4. I got good at the
       | Programma, it was quite useful. But I don't recall 240 steps; I
       | recall less than 100. Indeed, the much more advanced HP 9100
       | circa 1968, with CRT, rpn, and 10-digit accuracy, had only 196.
        
       | spiritplumber wrote:
       | Olivetti was amazing but they got screwed by the Italian
       | government. Basically executive positions were imposed by Italian
       | politics so you ended up with an amazing company with a bunch of
       | scumbags at the top siphoning up all the profits.
        
       | kmoser wrote:
       | I just finished reading _Empire of the Sum: The Rise and Reign of
       | the Pocket Calculator_ , which describes the Programma and many
       | of its contemporaries. Highly recommended reading if you're
       | interested in the history of calculating machines and how they
       | intersect with computers.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | I had their typewriter many many years ago; didn't even know they
       | did PCs.
        
       | johnkozak wrote:
       | The first machine I was paid to write code for! Fond memories.
        
       | effed3 wrote:
       | the history of p101 from one of the creators:
       | https://archive.org/details/programma101. It's a fascinating
       | reading (sorry, Italian language, hire google for help..),
       | directly from the source, about those years when a new world was
       | born, full of big promises and incredible mistakes. Olivetti is
       | still a case study in economy and management.
        
         | effed3 wrote:
         | also:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20060511054748/https://www.pierg...
        
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       (page generated 2024-08-26 23:01 UTC)