[HN Gopher] A $10k stipend is available for anyone moving to Cum...
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A $10k stipend is available for anyone moving to Cumberland, MD
Author : vxxzy
Score : 90 points
Date : 2024-08-24 13:46 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ci.cumberland.md.us)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ci.cumberland.md.us)
| billsmithaustin wrote:
| For you cyclists, the Great Allegheny Pass trail and the
| Chesapeake & Ohio towpath meet there.
| tantalor wrote:
| Also has an Amtrak station!
| op00to wrote:
| How many trains a day?
| smhg wrote:
| Not even one per day as far as I can tell.
|
| The Amtrack website also mentions:
|
| Known as Maryland's "Queen City," Cumberland was an early
| gateway to the West. Today, it is a bustling arts center
| and popular stopover for cyclists using the trail network
| between Pittsburgh and Washington, D.C.
| trollbridge wrote:
| CUM has a train headed for DC show up once a day at 9:30am.
| Takes 31/2 hours, which is about an hour longer than
| driving.
|
| In the other direction to Pittsburgh leaves at 7:30pm and
| takes 41/2 hours, more than 2 hours longer than driving.
| dragontamer wrote:
| The idea of DC to NYC being roughly as far away as
| Maryland to DC is kinda funny to me.
|
| I guess that's just how the panhandle panhandles.
| ktosobcy wrote:
| Eh... I'm always mind-blown by the amazing nature the USA
| has... :(
| khuey wrote:
| One of the program requirements is that you buy a house there and
| live in it for five years.
| anticorporate wrote:
| This is pretty important. I suspect the people who are
| motivated by $2k a year to move there are not the people who
| are going to be bringing a large influx of capital to a place
| that very much needs it.
|
| Although actually, it looks like there are two separate
| programs, which you can be eligible for both of: The relocation
| credit, and the restoration or down payment credit, which is
| more of a match, so the actual amount is more like $20k total.
| delichon wrote:
| > I suspect the people who are motivated by $2k a year to
| move there are not the people who are going to be bringing a
| large influx of capital to a place that very much needs it.
|
| You are correct, they are the people who will be available to
| be employed by those considering bringing a large influx of
| capital and taxable revenue. They're the bait.
| klingoff wrote:
| Offering $10-20k to move somewhere that doesn't have jobs
| isn't going to build a labor market. Retirees and remote
| workers can decide to live in a labor nowhere to stretch
| their house buying power, lower cost of living, etc.
| j_m_b wrote:
| That actually explains a lot. They are trying to expand their
| tax base. The improvements stipend will allow them to assess
| the property at a higher value!
| e1g wrote:
| "Reduced local taxes by $2k/yr for five years" doesn't have
| the same ring.
| beowulfey wrote:
| Yes I would guess this is to try and encourage remote workers
| to move there, would be a valuable influx
| more_corn wrote:
| But houses there cost about a nickel.
| yergi wrote:
| ...and at the current admin's burn rate of almost 10% GDP
| deficit / year via printing of money, that 10K gonna be worth
| more like 5k at the present clip in 5 years. Honestly, reducing
| gov't spending by 50% to fit within the confines of the tax
| base simply isn't going to happen. So, with that in mind, that
| 5k (in future real terms) to move to a state with terrible
| rental laws for landlords (if that's the long term goal) just
| simply doesn't make any sense at all.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| There is no linear relationship between national debt and
| inflation. There is no possible way to conclude that because
| of any particular change in the deficit or debt that $1 today
| will be worth more or less in 5 years. You don't know, and
| neither does anybody else.
| j_m_b wrote:
| I just got back from a visit with family in Cumberland. It's the
| epitome of rust belt. What used to be a thriving manufacturing
| area has become an abandoned service-sector economy with low-wage
| jobs. Property values are dirt cheap, even for nice houses. There
| isn't much nearby, you have to travel hours from Pittsburgh to
| even get there by plane. Tales of theft of items like power tools
| from relatively remote farms are common. It doesn't look quite as
| bad as videos I've seen of poorer parts of Appalachia, but it's
| pretty close. I don't know how they will be able to afford this
| as the tax base has all but left and Cumberland is trying to
| pinch every penny they can to afford their over-compensated
| government staff. It's a pretty sad state of affairs, this seems
| more like a last-ditch marketing effort.
| dccoolgai wrote:
| When the railroad was the internet, it was really the Silicon
| Valley of its day. Really makes you think.
| samstave wrote:
| Maybe youre not familiar with Qwest Communications?
|
| Man does SV have stories to tell that will be lost to us old
| BOFH ilk:
|
| Qwest communications came about when the railroad realized
| they had rights to the easement lanes on either side of ALL
| their train tracks, that allowed them to basically do
| anything they wanted with that strip of land.
|
| So Qwest Communications was born to run fiber along all the
| tracks and built a huge fiber infra.
|
| There was a huge scandal with the telecom giants, and Qwest's
| CEO was convicted:
|
| ---
|
| Dossier: Qwest Communications
|
| _Creation and Early Years_
|
| - Qwest Communications was formed in 1996 as a spin-off from
| the Southern Pacific Railroad Company. The railroad company
| had been granted easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables
| along their tracks, which Qwest leveraged to build a massive
| fiber-optic network.
|
| _Fiber-Optic Network Expansion_
|
| - Qwest used the easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables
| along the railroad tracks, expanding their network across the
| western United States. This strategic move allowed Qwest to:
|
| - Reduce costs: By utilizing existing railroad easements,
| Qwest avoided the need to purchase or lease land for their
| fiber-optic cables.
|
| - Increase efficiency: The railroad tracks provided a direct
| route for fiber-optic cables, reducing the need for detours
| and minimizing signal degradation.
|
| _Scandal and Conviction of CEO Joseph Nacchio_
|
| - In 2005, Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio was convicted of insider
| trading and sentenced to six years in prison. The scandal
| involved Nacchio selling millions of dollars' worth of Qwest
| stock while aware of the company's financial struggles.
|
| _Scale of Fiber Plant_
|
| - Qwest built an extensive fiber-optic network, spanning over
| 190,000 miles across the United States. This massive
| infrastructure enabled Qwest to offer high-speed data and
| voice services to customers.
| fragmede wrote:
| You missed the part where the Qwest refused to participate
| in illegal surveillance and the NSA destroyed the company
| for it.
|
| https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-
| punished...
| samstave wrote:
| Sorry - Yeah - actually I regret that as I have a
| humongous amount of /r/conspiracy history in my head -
| and I forgot that was the real reason.
| mgerdts wrote:
| This sounds a lot like the story of Sprint (Southern
| Pacific Railroad INTernet?). If I were less lazy I bet I
| could find the story where this part of Sprint morphed into
| Qwest.
| hosh wrote:
| I had been thinking about looking at history from the lens of
| information technology.
|
| China is an interesting example, in that it was so well ahead
| of the curve until around 1700s. In the 1800s, when
| telegraphs were connecting the Western world together, the
| Qing dynasty China would not have been able to participate
| unless pictographs could be encoded as easily as letters (let
| alone the century of uprisings, rebellions, and civil war).
|
| But look at Tang Dynasty China. The Silk Road was a part of a
| global trade network reaching through the Middle East, and
| into Africa, along with maritime routes from India.
|
| It wasn't just trade goods that travelled. Ideas --
| religious, cultural, technological, flowed along the network.
| But they travelled only as fast as trade goods.
|
| I think it is when information is able to flow faster than
| the physical items that, we might find some insights about
| what is going on now.
| dfedbeef wrote:
| I have good news re: information flow rates
| thephyber wrote:
| Categorical mistake.
|
| A rural community based on a single industry is always high
| risk for economic sustainability.
|
| Silicon Valley is has cities older than the USA, was grown by
| the gold rush, the early movie studios, the defense industry
| (plus some world class universities), NASA contractors,
| microelectronics, etc. The most recent iteration is software
| startups.
|
| Cities are always more resilient than isolated rural
| communities because they are inherently more diversified in
| both economy and workforce.
| mturmon wrote:
| Excellent point.
|
| Longnow.org has a lot of material about the resilience of
| cities over very long time scales (like, millennia).
|
| Here's an example on the resilience of cities versus
| corporations:
| https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-
| gr...
|
| Another example, from a longnow podcast, is the tendency of
| people to think of themselves as citizens of a particular
| city (I'm from San Francisco, I'm from Venice, I'm from
| Helsinki), perhaps even more so than a state/province or a
| nationality in some cases.
| rjsw wrote:
| How good is internet access there?
| xeromal wrote:
| With Starlink, this question is getting less important. Loads
| of my family in N. Georgia have started using it and it's
| crazy how much better it is than the local competition
| op00to wrote:
| Starlink still sucks for remote work. Every time the
| satellites switch there is a slight disconnection, causing
| interruption to Zoom meetings.
| xeromal wrote:
| I'm sure but for people who haven't had any better, it's
| like the second coming of Christ. lol
| freedomben wrote:
| Yes, it one of the best thing that has happened in many,
| many years, excluding the birth of kids. It made living
| where we live viable in an age of remote meetings.
| freedomben wrote:
| I've been on Starlink since it was first commercially
| available (I got lucky) so I've seen a lot of changes
| over the years, and this did used to happen pretty
| regularly, but it has improved quite a bit. I don't know
| if Starlink fixed it or if Zoom did, but it's much
| better. Google Meet has handled these hiccups like a
| champ for a while and has gotten so good it seems like
| magic.
| caymanjim wrote:
| I've been using Starlink while RVing around all of North
| America for four months every summer. This is my third
| summer doing so. Historically, I've bashed on it a fair
| bit, because it's not the panacea people think it is for
| on-the-go Internet.
|
| It's gotten way better, though. The main problem with
| using it on the go is that campgrounds have trees and
| Starlink hates trees. If you're in one place, that
| problem doesn't exist, so long as you have a clear
| northern sky view.
|
| The disconnection thing is a non-issue. I use it for
| video meetings every day at work. It never disconnects
| for more than a second or two, and I almost never notice
| it. Connections always recover on their own and almost
| instantly.
| rpdillon wrote:
| I've got a couple people on my team in remote parts of
| Canada and Chile and they both use Starlink to work
| remotely with my teams every day (zoom, slack, github,
| etc.). It's been great for the past year or so. Haven't
| seen any issues with our Zoom meetings.
|
| I wonder if it's geographically variable. How often do
| satellites switches happen?
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Our company uses it for entire construction job sites,
| it's perfectly fine.
| tunesmith wrote:
| The brochure says "95% broadband", whatever that means.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Presumably the last 5% is the bit that connects to your
| computer.
| jacoblambda wrote:
| That generally means most properties will have decent
| broadband/>25mbps internet, some will have ADSL <25mbps,
| and a few won't have internet or you'll have to run it to
| the property (costs a few thousand USD generally).
| reducesuffering wrote:
| 70% of households in the county have internet speeds >25
| Mbps. Is that metric meaningful to you? What would ideally
| mean "good internet access?"
|
| I'm working on a project[0] where I sourced this from the FCC
| Broadband data and am curious about what people are looking
| for in that respect.
|
| [0] https://www.exoroad.com/us/Maryland/Allegany-
| County/housing
| Barrin92 wrote:
| > What would ideally mean "good internet access?"
|
| For someone who relies on a internet connection for their
| professional work I'd say 100 Mbps is the floor of "good"
| in 2024. I think that's what the FCC updated their
| definition of broadband to earlier this year.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| ROFLMAO. I _dream_ of 100Mbps. The only thing my ISP can
| guarantee is that it will be "at least" 10Mbps.
|
| Unfortunately, knowing that fiber is a mere 0.5 miles
| from my house doesn't help me in the slightest.
| reducesuffering wrote:
| Thank you! Turns out I was missing 'Urban' category, so
| Cumberland itself still has 99% of households with >100
| Mbps available.
| kavok wrote:
| Upload, download, latency, and how many options to choose
| from are what I looked for the last time I bought a house.
|
| I actually asked some of the neighbors about it and called
| local ISPs.
| kjellsbells wrote:
| First, if you aren't already, look into what the FCC is
| doing with BEAD funding, and consequently what all the
| states are doing with mapping broadband provision to try
| and capture some of that money. Tennesee for example.
|
| More generally, there is a little funkiness with the
| exoroad site. I guess this project is still in the assembly
| stage?
|
| - When I search for a US county, say Culpeper or Fairfax in
| Virginia, I get the map and then some very stock images.
| The images are on things that don't exist in the specific
| county. E.g. Fairfax doesn't have a cathedral and a giant
| stately home.
|
| - The crime stats are also a bit weirdly presented. If a
| county is "9 of 10" for crime that makes it sound
| terrible...but I think you render it in green to show that
| it's good? And what does the statistic actually mean? "out
| of 10 equivalently populated counties?" say, or something
| else?
| reducesuffering wrote:
| Yes it's a scrappy MVP right now.
|
| Images have quality problems, like you described, as I
| haven't got accuracy figured out across the 3k+ counties.
|
| Crime stat is awkward because everything else 9/10
| (schools / snow) sounds like good or a lot. But with
| crime, it's a feature that people want less of. Since
| there's so many features I went with 10/10 is
| consistently good, but I do keep getting feedback about
| this that maybe I should change it.
|
| Out of 10 is a percentile: 10/10 = top 10%, 9/10 = top
| 20%, 1/10 = bottom 10%. I'm trying to figure out the
| right granularity between showing the most important info
| for quickly figuring out the stat, vs. showing all the
| details about it, because there's 50 features, with
| another potential 50, and many have multiple ways of
| thinking about it. So it can quickly become a deluge of
| info without the right UI to surface <-> deep.
|
| I really appreciate the feedback and my email is
| eric@exoroad.com in case this is off topic.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| When I looked at the claimed coverage map from providers it
| was a joke - they just played "color inside the lines" for
| our region. Ask anyone who has spent more than a couple
| days here and they can tick off all the areas you don't get
| any coverage.
| reducesuffering wrote:
| Are you in Cumberland? Would you say 99% of households
| having the possibility of > 100 Mbps is wildly
| inaccurate?
| jhawk28 wrote:
| You can get always get starlink if the fiber/cable is bad.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Sure, if you don't mind regular drops while you're handed
| off between satellites, and many areas being oversubscribed
| so badly that people are getting performance worse than
| DSL.
| dfc wrote:
| Cumberland is equidistant (~2 hours) between Pittsburgh airport
| and Dulles.
| abduhl wrote:
| I think this would be equitemporal rather than equidistant?
| Maybe isochronic? Isochronal? One of those...
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Equidistant in time.
|
| Edit: speak up, annoyant... "Distance" is "standing apart".
| It is not confined to space - in fact, the original meaning
| is that of "diverging in stances" (i.e. a quarrel), and the
| geometric one comes one century later. And there exist
| languages where speaking of "distance in time" is language
| in use - so, if in your neighborhood they don't speak this
| way, it is a problem of your neighborhood.
| klingoff wrote:
| They sound about the same, but "2 Hours to Dulles" would be
| the better name for the M Night Shyamalan movie.
| fragmede wrote:
| 2 Hours from Allegheny County would be a David Fincher
| flic.
| ApolloFortyNine wrote:
| 2 hours from a central hub I'd actually consider a plus. If
| you travel for work it's bad, but for any personal trip,
| skipping a connection is pretty valuable. Not just in time,
| but generally international / longer flights are higher
| priority, and are less likely to be randomly delayed or
| canceled.
| martinald wrote:
| Seems like its 2hrs drive from Pittsburg and IAD airports?
| robotnikman wrote:
| Sounds like a place I wouldn't mind working if I can find a
| remote position again. I'm a big introvert, and I would like to
| move somewhere more greener (getting tired of living in the
| middle of a bland hot dessert)
| ghaff wrote:
| At some point, many people start thinking about things like
| access to good healthcare, various types of trades, ability
| to travel without it being a huge hassle, etc. Doesn't mean
| you need to live right around a big city but I doubt I would
| want every task or appointment to be a big undertaking.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Healthcare is huge. It's amazing how terrible access to
| good care is in many rural areas. It's something people
| often overlook but it's just so important.
| jen729w wrote:
| Here in Australia people retire 'down the coast'. For us
| that's the stunning south of NSW. Look up Eden (yes,
| really, Eden).
|
| And then ... they come back to the city. Because the
| older you are the more medical care you need, and there
| just aren't enough doctors down there, or in any other
| regional area.
| killingtime74 wrote:
| My parents are going to retire on the Gold coast for this
| reason. Quieter life but several big hospitals and
| Brisbane nearby
| whiterknight wrote:
| All the doctors want to live in LA and NY. This problem
| only gets worse as medical school, etc becomes more
| competitive and costly.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| The problem is a mix of people leaving rural areas which
| increases per patient overhead at facilities, plus
| mergers and private equity takeovers.
|
| Hospital chains and healthcare systems have been
| consolidating like crazy for decades and it's still going
| strong - 80 or so hospitals merge every year. PE has also
| been snapping up private practices like crazy, too.
|
| https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/ten-things-
| to-k...
| scythe wrote:
| The area around Cumberland, mostly to the south towards
| Moorefield and Petersburg, WV, has a somewhat similar climate
| to the Tokaj region of Hungary, known for growing rare
| botrytized wines that sell for a fortune. I found this one day
| when I looked at the map of precipitation activity the US and
| saw an unexpected dry(ish) spot in northeastern West Virginia.
| alephnerd wrote:
| There's a decently sized saffron industry in that general
| region of the Appalachia and southern PA for the same reason.
| ckcheng wrote:
| From the linked page:
|
| > The package, offering up to $20,000 is comprised of $10,000 in
| relocation cash, PLUS up to $10,000, dollar for dollar match, for
| approved renovations on an existing home, OR for a down payment
| on a newly constructed home within City limits.
|
| Not "A $10k stipend is available for anyone moving to Cumberland,
| MD" as the submission title says currently , which sounded like a
| basic income.
| ta988 wrote:
| Exactly. And they are going to reassess your property because
| you did renovations and get more than the $20k they gave you
| over time. Not even talking about the local taxes if you get a
| job there.
| nroets wrote:
| If that's case, I'm sure proper economic modeling will show
| that the $20k+administrative burden is better spent on
| reducing taxes for everyone in Cumberland.
| Ekaros wrote:
| 10k going to renovation might be reasonable economic
| stimulus to area.
| AndrewHampton wrote:
| A similar program exists for 4 towns in West Virginia:
| https://ascendwv.com
| khaki54 wrote:
| It's a nice place, especially if you are outdoorsy, due to
| proximity to so much woodland and trail. I was very surprised
| with the architecture there. I've only stayed a couple nights
| (Trailhead for the Ragnar relay series)
| TylerE wrote:
| No offence, but you can't really say that after a single visit
| of a few days.
|
| For instance, healthcare in Appalachia is generally terrible,
| as are the crime rates.
| imglorp wrote:
| Green Ridge state park, nearby, is wonderful camping and four
| wheeling.
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| It is a gorgeous area. Not a bad deal if you live in the region
| and are looking to buy a $120k home
| samstave wrote:
| WTH marketing much?
|
| Read the fn offer:
|
| They will give you $10,000 cash, plus another $10,000 toward a
| renovation to a house you buy, or to a down-payment on a house
| you are required to buy, with a value of >$150K that you are
| required to live in for 5 years.
|
| And you have to apply, and be approved, and undergo a casual
| interview by the city council.
|
| And you have to be ready to move in within 6 months of approval.
|
| And you have to be fully remote, have a local job, or be moving
| to cumberland in acceptance of a job...
|
| ----
|
| They GIVE YOU NO FN REASON WHY you would want to move there.
|
| The municipal website is a "Parks & Rec Fisher Price" as it
| comes, where the first link on "Populat links" is "Pay utilities"
|
| There are no posted bid offereings (meaning no active project
| cumberland is seeking RFPs on)
|
| And community events is barren...
|
| So, why is this on HN?
|
| It doesnt even give a nice GPT synpsis of what the heck
| cumberland is even about - Here, I GPTd it for them:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/mueJp1W.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/scpNTid.png
|
| Is my math wrong or something? Did anyone actually look at the
| image?
|
| ---
|
| Back when Detroit was doing super bad, and lots for huge
| Victorian and other nice architecture homes were going for
| ~$5,000 - there was a lot of chatter of a bunch of millenial-ish
| techies buy up a bunch of plots and start a tech-commune sort of
| adventure out there. _(turned out the person organizing that
| effort was pulling a huge grift)_
|
| Maybe try to do a YC startup fund where "Hey heres free housing
| internet and utilities for your startup if you can prove "XYZ" --
| like what about a visa program if some Hackers can come in and do
| a startup there and raise the economy where the city is invested
| in the startups? But have the program vetted by some panel of
| experts the city recruits
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| This could be attractive to people like my brother and his
| girlfriend. His job is remote and she's going to school for an
| art degree, mostly into ceramics and wood turning. They love
| the outdoors and this would be a good spot for them.
| samstave wrote:
| Yeah, I got down boted -- but I was making the point that
| CUmberland didnt even do a fn GPT splat at an attempt to
| market this.
|
| Heck - any retire-age level techie person with a passsive
| income/ability to do things remote etc could take this up
|
| But the 20K to live there for five years, and youre required
| to put 10K of that toward a house that must be >150K
|
| Here are all the listing on Zillow for houses 150K to 200K
| in/around cumberland md
|
| https://i.imgur.com/L6dx2ji.jpeg
| forvelin wrote:
| you got downvotes because your replies lack manners.
| samstave wrote:
| I'm not responsible for whatever tone you put on my post
| in your internal monologue's voice.
|
| Being starkly the only one who points out how weird it is
| that there was no reason for why would even want to
| consider this offer, and the unappealing rules for which
| this is controlled -- its a weird endeavor for this town,
| and weird post for HN.
|
| Is stating such lacking of manners? Or are emotional
| triggers > discussion of the content posted?
|
| @Debo - I was talking about the content of the freaking
| Cumberland website and their offer.
|
| Whatever - defend this absolutely atrocious offer, my
| comment being downvoted doesnt make the offer any better,
| nor it presentation.
|
| What a weird thread
| debo_ wrote:
| Neither the presentation nor the content was good, so you
| are being downvoted.
| deadlydose wrote:
| > didnt even do a fn GPT splat
|
| Do us a favor and run your comments through it next time.
| And drop the whole crybaby "bots" crap.
| memcg wrote:
| Frostburg State University, Deep Creek Lake and Wisp Resort
| are close. Summer temperature was 10 degrees F cooler than my
| house near DC the last time I spent a week at Deep Creek.
| angellonunez wrote:
| It looks like a nice place. I know about a few similar programs
| in some towns in Europe. It is interesting to see something like
| this in some towns and cities in the US.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Similar long-standing program in Tulsa.
| https://www.tulsaremote.com/
| radpanda wrote:
| As a native Marylander I always find myself forgetting about
| Cumberland, which is a shame. As someone who has mostly lived in
| and around Baltimore, you head west to Frederick (aka Fredneck)
| for the small city in the middle of rural farmland. If you keep
| heading west you get to Hagerstown which feels way out there in
| farm country. And if you keep heading west you eventually move
| from farms to mountains and you hit Cumberland, which looks like
| a city that time forgot.
|
| As other folks have commented, there's some beautiful
| architecture and the old part of the city seems like it could be
| a bustling place. There's a train station and easy access to the
| great outdoors. But the jobs have long gone and drug addiction
| has taken root for so many there. I don't know the best way to
| revive a place like that but I hope something eventually works.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >I don't know the best way to revive a place like that but I
| hope something eventually works.
|
| You don't. Times change, and what used to provide utility may
| no longer provide utility, and the only option is to move on.
| devchix wrote:
| And if you travel farther west on 70, you'll eventually reach
| Wheeling, WVA. At one time its position on the Ohio river and
| near railroads made it a transportation hub, it made money in
| iron, textile, and logging - they used to float logs down the
| river. The vestige of wealth is still visible in its
| architecture, beautiful brick homes, ornate porches, windows
| and roofs. It's this glimmer into this past, not so far in the
| distance, that is so sad to witness. A lot of the town has
| fallen into disrepair, not slum exactly, but heading there.
| There is a central market building with some kitschy arts and
| crafts, and food stalls that supply tour buses. The buses come
| for Wheeling Island Casino, which has one of the last two
| remaining greyhound racetracks in the US. There's some attempt
| at preserving the historic buildings and downtown. People keep
| leaving, and the tourist attractions are more of a detour stop
| than a destination point. There used to be a pie stall - best
| pies in the US, handmade, fresh ingredients, $15, baked to
| order by a retired teacher. He sold the shop, his kids didn't
| want it, it was too much work and they made more money doing
| other things.
| stackskipton wrote:
| Sure, but problem Cumberland has same problem as rest of
| Appalachia, it's geography isn't very good. Mountain areas make
| everything 10x times harder to build.
|
| Let's say some big software company wanted to build second HQ.
| Even if Cumberland was attractive in workforce, education
| options and so forth, the architects would say "Building your
| HQ2 is going to be rough. There isn't enough flat land,
| flooding could be problematic, fiber companies are screaming
| about the trenching" Not to mention, where are you going to put
| all your workers since housing will run into same problem. So
| if you wanted to stay in MD, somewhere like Hagerstown or
| Salisbury would be a better choice since usable land is
| plentiful.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| If there was an economy worth building for, the geography
| wouldn't be a blocker. Look at Seattle, Oakland, or the
| Hollywood hills. They're all built on rugged, mountainous
| terrain just as difficult as the Appalachians, but they don't
| suffer the same issues attracting wealth because their
| economic situation is so different. In fact, each of them has
| the opposite problem of demand to build vastly outstripping
| permission to build.
| stackskipton wrote:
| >Look at Seattle, Oakland, or the Hollywood hills. They're
| all built on rugged, mountainous terrain just as difficult
| as the Appalachians, but they don't suffer the same issues
| attracting wealth because their economic situation is so
| different.
|
| Wrong. Seattle, Oakland and Los Angeles are mostly built on
| much flatter parts of those areas. California entire
| geography is about "Hey, check out these massive valleys or
| coastal land we can build in." Same thing with Washington
| State, Seattle is in between Cascades and Olympics where
| there is all this flat land to build on. Yes, they running
| out of land and building into mountains now. That problem
| is like having FAANG scaling problems. It sucks but it's
| good/manageable problem to have and you have massive
| checkbooks to help solve it.
|
| Have you been to Appalachia? It's not on the coast and does
| not have these benefits. If you want to compare it to West
| Coast areas, it's more like Sierra Nevada. Inland Mountains
| with only small valleys to build infrastructure in.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > built on much flatter parts of those areas
|
| Seattle was MADE flat by literally using fire hoses to
| flatten hills and mountains [0].
|
| That said, I disagree with the role geography has with
| developing a tech industry - most of it can be directly
| related to investment put during WW2 and the 1950s into
| innovation clusters.
|
| For example, Seattle and aerospace (Boeing), Bay Area and
| computers+electronics+nukes (HP, IBM Almaden, LLNL, LLBL,
| Los Alamos managed by UCB), San Diego and Biotech+Defense
| Tech (Salk Lab, Navy), Portland and electronics (INL,
| PNNL, Tektronics, Intel), etc
|
| [0] -
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regrading_in_Seattle
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| I've been to Appalachia. It didn't strike me as notably
| more rugged than any other reasonably hilly area, and
| quite a bit less rugged than many places known for it
| (e.g. the Alpine cities, or the Himalayas). The west
| coast cities were a reasonable comparison, because
| they're (1) in the same country and (2) Fairly comparable
| in elevation and grade, if not a bit worse. The oakland
| hills (and other bay area communities [1]) rise to
| comparable heights despite starting at sea level with 25%
| grades, for example. Queen Anne in Seattle [2] has almost
| exactly the same elevation gain, but the last 200 feet
| are basically a cliff. I'm not picking distant suburbs
| here, but rather historic parts of these areas that have
| been developed for almost a century. They only maintain
| the illusion of flatness now because the landscape has
| been intensively modified over that time to appear less
| severe.
|
| [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/S
| ausalit...
|
| [2] https://images.seattletimes.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2016/03/9...
| dullcrisp wrote:
| But people live there already. Couldn't they be prosperous
| without a big software company building its headquarters
| there?
| Nifty3929 wrote:
| Sounds like a gift to current residents who want to leave:
| "...receive $10,000.00 ("Program Incentive") payable at closing
| of a home or upon proof closing has occurred... " Meaning that it
| will help prop up prices for those selling.
|
| AND/OR a gift for their local construction workers: "... receive
| up to $10,000, dollar for dollar match, for approved renovations
| ... on an existing home ... or for a down payment on a newly
| constructed home ..."
| Almondsetat wrote:
| Mining towns are one of the examples of human hubris and
| stupidity I can't get my head around. If you build something in a
| shitty place just because there is a single resource you can
| sell, and everything else you have to import, then what do you
| expect will happen when said resource dries up? These places were
| meant for people to go temporarily, make serious money, and then
| go back to the city or countryside to build a life there, just
| like people who go to oil rigs do. Instead people brought their
| families and created an entire town or city in the middle of
| nowhere.
|
| Now, the past is past and what's done is done. Can't we just
| acknowledge this basic reality and let these places die and move
| to better ones? Maybe thanks to the internet one day they will be
| repopulated by small tech companies operating from a single
| building with 100 computers and a fiber network, but until then
| why bullshit ourselves?
| keiferski wrote:
| Cumberland was founded as a fort and a transportation hub first
| and only later became a mining town.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Precisely correct. It is/was located next to one of the most
| convenient points to embark on a crossing of the
| Appalachians.
| tetromino_ wrote:
| Deep-sea oil rigs don't grow into towns because there is no
| spare land to grow on - the "land" is an insanely expensive
| man-made structure whose size pushes against the limits of
| human engineering ability. But when oil is found on dry land or
| even in the sea close to shore, oil industry almost always
| results in significant urban growth - e.g. see Baku, Los
| Angeles, or Dubai.
| overstay8930 wrote:
| Because people wanted to have families? Like what kind of
| question is this? Do you think people should put their whole
| life on pause for a job?
| matteoraso wrote:
| In the olden days, these towns wouldn't pay you money, they
| would pay you scrip issued by the mining company[0]. This could
| only be used at company-operated stores, so miners were
| imprisoned in the towns. Moving back literally wasn't an option
| for the people that worked there, but if there was no other
| jobs around, where else could you go?
|
| [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
| jt2190 wrote:
| I've created a Google Sheet to list these programs. Got three so
| far. Please feel free to add any that you know of.
| https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ahY6cI0CJVbK9PRNIkjh...
| kkfx wrote:
| I honestly do not get such programs, I'm from EU where equivalent
| programs exists in slightly different form (1EUR old and
| abandoned homes for sale) and that's a total stupid initiative
| because people face MUCH bigger costs and still have no potential
| development in place.
|
| Instead of proposing such gifts state a complete development
| programs: how do you count to augment the population enough to
| create room for a local bustling economy? A possible timeline and
| the current state of things? Tell me about local climate, hydro-
| geological stability, pollution and so on. You want people,
| convince them to be part of you project do not "buy them with
| candies". Convincing people to be part of a project means finding
| (if you succeed, of course) active people who can bring value to
| your community, otherwise you might collect some fool who will go
| soon or will remain as a burden to the community.
| spacemadness wrote:
| It seems like Zillow is full of people selling houses at 2x to 3x
| the estimate in Cumberland hoping to sell and run to whoever
| takes advantage of the relocation program. I see houses assessed
| at $90,000 in 2023 selling for $300,000. Give me a break.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| The next question there would be how many of them had recently
| bought those properties - i.e. did they have a heads up from
| their friends on the City Council that this was coming down the
| line?
| streptomycin wrote:
| "Assessed" doesn't mean much, there are many towns (such as my
| current town, and many others here in NJ) where houses all sell
| for a similar premium over the official assessed value.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Maryland is so bad they need to pay you 10k to move there. I used
| to live in Nova and crossing into Maryland was always a drag.
| dgfitz wrote:
| Did you know that Columbia, MD is consistently voted one of the
| best cities in the country in which to live and work?
| TylerE wrote:
| Columbia and Cumberland are about as opposite as you can get.
|
| You might as well say "San Francisco is one of the greatest
| cities on earth, so you should move to Bakersfield."
| brigade wrote:
| Cumberland has more in common with everything west of the
| Shenandoah than any part of Maryland you likely drove to.
| tonymet wrote:
| Extrinsic monetary incentives are among the worst ways to
| stimulate growth. Anyone who would uproot their life for $10k is
| likely not the right personality to restore prosperity.
|
| Other strategies have worked to gentrify depressed neighborhoods,
| like attracting bohemians or entrepreneurs with lower rents and
| tax relief, based on a strict qualification process.
| soared wrote:
| Yeah many of the other similar incentives provide free land,
| housing/internet/etc benefits too
| silisili wrote:
| This is what I thought of. 10k is nothing. I'd break even or
| actually come out behind just on their income taxes alone.
|
| But say, 10 acres of land, with utility access/hookups? I may
| really consider it. By offering free land, with requirement
| that you build a stick house and live in it, you can ensure
| whoever is moving there has funds to build a house.
| QuantumGood wrote:
| It's not just the 10K, it's an advertisement for low-cost
| homes, e.g. https://www.zillow.com/cumberland-
| md/?searchQueryState=%7B%2...
| plaidfuji wrote:
| Maryland is full of places like this. Beautiful exterior,
| super solid construction.
|
| But on the inside, brittle plaster walls (hard to hang
| anything), lead paint covered by about 1/4 inch of repeated
| repainting, finicky radiant heating, sparse electrical
| outlets usually ungrounded, 100 year old plumbing, literally
| zero central air or proper ventilation anywhere (= upper
| levels are a sauna... look for a single HVAC grate anywhere),
| legacy window and door hardware that can't be replaced... the
| list goes on. Every improvement project risks disrupting
| decades of toxic building materials and carefully
| grandfathered code violations.
| Aspos wrote:
| There is a dedicated bicycle road connecting Cumberland with the
| National Mall in D.C. and which promises no cars, no pedestrians.
| Ten hours of pedaling mostly downhill.
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| One-way sure.
| jcranmer wrote:
| That's the C&O canal towpath which, uh, there's definitely
| pedestrians there in places (I've done several hikes on
| portions of it). True about no cars, though.
| francisofascii wrote:
| Work from home. Commute into a DC metro based office once a
| month. You could even drive to Martinsburg and take the Marc.
| Sounds doable.
| xyst wrote:
| > Commute into a DC metro based office once a month
|
| Not even once. Have you ever driven in DC metro? No thanks.
| pessimizer wrote:
| The Marc drops you off in the DC Metro (the subway).
|
| Which on first reading I thought you were referring to with
| "DC metro," and I got very confused.
| solid_fuel wrote:
| From Cumberland, you can take the Amtrak. It's a 3 1/2 hour
| ride, you can eat on the train, and there's no traffic.
|
| $38 for a round-trip ticket.
| xyst wrote:
| Have to live in Cumberland, MD for 5 years though.
|
| Borders West Virginia and a key city in the Appalachian area.
| Some would say this region was day 0 of the opioid epidemic. As
| of 2020 census, population is largely (~89%) identified as
| Caucasian. Diversity is lacking. Median income reported at $45K.
|
| Don't know much besides what's on paper, but I highly doubt most
| people on HN would integrate well here.
| nunobrito wrote:
| I've personally enjoyed that kind of offer. My work is remote, my
| family isn't.
|
| Not living in the US myself, but done similar in EU.
|
| Living outside large cities is a plus factor these days. You can
| afford a house, commodities tend to be cheaper or you just grow
| them yourself. Kids go to a local school where you know everyone
| else, they make strong friendships and grow healthy in nature.
| varjag wrote:
| As anything else in life it's an individual balance. Knowing
| everyone can be as much a disadvantage; commodities can be
| cheaper but your earning potential can also be lower. The
| nearest airport could be several hours drive, and the only
| school around where all kids go sounds great until your kid
| gets bullied.
| solid_fuel wrote:
| I suspect these programs are mostly an attempt to claw back some
| people lost to the brain-drain that the region has been
| experiencing for decades. $10k over 5 years is not enough to
| seriously convince most people with no ties to the area to
| relocate there.
|
| I have family roots in Cumberland and the nearby areas of West
| Virginia and MD and I still wouldn't consider moving back. But,
| if you still have a good relationship with family in the city and
| were already considering the move, this offer might look more
| compelling.
|
| I believe Vermont also had a similar program for several years -
| offering a similar amount of money for people to move and work
| there in VT.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Average summer temperature 72.6 degrees Fahrenheit_
|
| Must be different, out there. I lived in MD for over ten years,
| and the average was ... _slightly higher_ ...
|
| It is real purdy, out there, though.
| silisili wrote:
| They're taking the entire mean over the summertime, which isn't
| a useful metric IMO. If your days are 90, and your nights 60,
| you mean out around 75, despite it never really being 75 during
| the day where you can enjoy it. The average high in July is in
| the high 80s, which I think matches the entire region pretty
| closely.
| PLenz wrote:
| Most significant for being the home of Dr. McNinja
| ApolloFortyNine wrote:
| Great camping in this area, and it's a stop on the 300 some mile
| trail between DC and Pittsburgh (being extended to Erie,
| eventually).
| lizknope wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumberland,_Maryland#Demograph...
|
| Historical population
|
| peak was
|
| 1940 39,483
|
| 2020 19,076
|
| It is still dropping
|
| The racial makeup of the city was 89.4% White, 6.4% African
| American, 0.2% Native American, 0.9% Asian, 0.1% Pacific
| Islander, 0.3% from other races, and 2.8% from two or more races.
| Hispanic or Latino people of any race were 1.2% of the
| population.
|
| I wish them luck but I don't want to live there.
| kragen wrote:
| one-time payment, not a yearly stipend forever
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| You could not pay me to live in a city whose staff write the
| phrase "before the time of Christ" in the "about us" for the
| city's website.
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