[HN Gopher] 'Megalopolis' trailer's fake critic quotes were AI-g...
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       'Megalopolis' trailer's fake critic quotes were AI-generated
        
       Author : Xenoamorphous
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2024-08-23 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (variety.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (variety.com)
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | > We offer our sincere apologies to the critics involved and to
       | Francis Ford Coppola and American Zoetrope for this inexcusable
       | error in our vetting process. We screwed up. We are sorry.
       | 
       | Integrity is refreshing.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | If they had any integrity they wouldn't have used AI to begin
         | with. They're just scrambling to correct the PR damage and
         | hoping to avoid a lawsuit.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | No, it is not integrity to say the obligatory words after
         | getting caught. What a participation trophy.
        
       | uses wrote:
       | > Sources tell Variety it was not Lionsgate or Egan's intention
       | to fabricate quotes, but was an error in properly vetting and
       | fact-checking the phrases provided by the consultant
       | 
       | On the one hand, it's surprising that none of the people involved
       | in creating, publishing, and marketing this trailer raised an
       | eyebrow. I don't know much about film history but I raised an
       | eyebrow. And presumably, it took MANY people to make this trailer
       | happen, and a good chunk went to film school or otherwise know
       | enough to know that this was fishy.
       | 
       | On the other hand, things like this likely get caught during
       | production all the time and we just never hear about them.
        
         | next_xibalba wrote:
         | I suspect all involved were aware of what was going on, and
         | outsourcing the work to a consultant provides plausible
         | deniability/a fall guy. This is not the first time in the
         | history of film marketing that fake reviews have been used. [1]
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Manning_(fictitious_writ...
        
           | uses wrote:
           | Nah, that assumes everyone was paying attention and was
           | perfectly coordinated in a stupid pointless effort that was
           | bound to fail.
           | 
           | It's a lot easier to believe the official explanation. Which
           | is that someone typed in a prompt like "what are some quotes
           | from famous movie reviewers that were negative about francis
           | ford coppola's films?" and just copy-pasted the output
           | without understanding that LLMs can make things up. And
           | everyone who should've caught it was lazy or just simply
           | didn't second guess the work that was done fifteen steps
           | prior in the pipeline.
        
             | nerdponx wrote:
             | When money is at stake, never attribute to incompetence
             | what can be attributed to greed.
             | 
             | Yes, maybe some dingdong did this because they were stupid,
             | and nobody bothered to check their work. But then you have
             | to ask yourself: Why was a dingdong assigned to this task?
             | Why was nobody competent assigned to check their work? And
             | then hopefully you understand what's happening.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | What a great example of how AI is changing the world. Back
           | then, people committed the act and Sony faced consequences.
           | Today, some limp apology will get thrown onto the "sorry the
           | AI got it wrong" pile and it will be forgotten with no
           | consequences.
        
         | nox101 wrote:
         | As person making the video, you just get handed some text in
         | email that says "add these quotes"
         | 
         | There's no "show me the proof that these are legit". It's
         | assumed
         | 
         | I wouldn't expect anyone to check. One person in the chain made
         | them up. Everyone after that took them as legit.
         | 
         | > On the other hand, things like this likely get caught during
         | production all the time and we just never hear about them.
         | 
         | I seriously doubt it's anyone's job to check this. Most of
         | society runs on trust. Things would grind to a halt if every
         | person needed a chain of trust all they way down.
        
           | axus wrote:
           | After the quotes were added, did no one watch the video for
           | quality problems before releasing it to the public? Maybe
           | they didn't have any power to send it back to editing.
        
       | jfengel wrote:
       | It sounds like a dumb idea from the get go. Even if the quotes
       | were authentic, "They hated my previous work too" is a crummy
       | gimmick.
       | 
       | Coppola doesn't need a gimmick. He's famous and the film will
       | sell some tickets just on his name. If the film sucks then it
       | sucks. Don't make him look desperate in the process.
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | The funny thing is, if you're going to make up fake quotes...
         | why even use an AI? Do you really need an LLM to try and mimic
         | a particular critic's "voice" when you're only going to use one
         | sentence? And if you don't intend to use the fake quotes, why
         | not just use clearly identifiable placeholder text so no one
         | mistakes the work for the finished version?
        
       | nsagent wrote:
       | Was just talking with a microbiology researcher yesterday about
       | ChatGPT. They use it for helping to write code for analyzing
       | their lab data and they were surprised I said it's likely to lead
       | them astray at times, especially if they don't know the code well
       | enough to spot the errors it might generate.
       | 
       | Despite my PhD being in NLP, they still seemed incredulous at my
       | assertion. I truly think the general public have not been
       | adequately warned that they cannot trust the outputs of LLMs. I
       | wonder how long until that fact becomes commonplace.
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | It makes sense to me that the general public would have this
         | impression now that AI is a product being sold to people. If
         | you tell people "well, AI can make a SME's job easier and save
         | them time, but they'll still need to understand the output and
         | take the time to assess it for errors," it will rot on the
         | shelves.
         | 
         | Customers don't want to pay for an AI to make a SME's life
         | easier, they want to pay for an AI so that they _can stop
         | paying the premium for for SMEs_.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | >I wonder how long until that fact becomes commonplace.
         | 
         | When it starts killing enough people to make the news.
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | I'm calling it now; people will be informed of the mistakes
           | AI makes when the first "fake news" story pops up that has
           | inaccuracies due to ai analysis of data. Then it will be all
           | downhill from there.
        
             | rolph wrote:
             | when it becomes a crime of misrepresentation, to call it AI
             | when it is not AI but just a piece of code like any other.
        
             | spacecadet wrote:
             | We are already there! Humans misrepresent data on purpose
             | in the media all the time in order to create misinformation
             | and sway opinions. If anything AI creates deniability, "Oh
             | our so and so used gpt, woops!"...
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | >We are already there! Humans misrepresent data on
               | purpose in the media all the time in order to create
               | misinformation and sway opinions.
               | 
               | That isn't really the same thing. I was thinking of
               | something more along the lines of "AI designed car
               | randomly explodes" or "AI doctors misdiagnose patients
               | and mix up prescriptions." The AI equivalent of the
               | Therac-25[0]. Something a lot worse than "sometimes the
               | media lies," which we already know, and something
               | explicitly the fault of AI confabulation and automating
               | away humans at what should be necessary stopgap or
               | validation steps for the sake of streamlining or cost-
               | cutting.
               | 
               | >If anything AI creates deniability, "Oh our so and so
               | used gpt, woops!"...
               | 
               | Luckily, that doesn't seem to be the case. In every story
               | I've seen where people have tried to blame AI they didn't
               | get away with it, because the AI is just a tool and the
               | human beings are still legally responsible. People still
               | try though.
               | 
               | [0]https://hackaday.com/2015/10/26/killed-by-a-machine-
               | the-ther...
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Unless they are having GPT come up with the calculations and
         | doing the statistics, I doubt that. They likely just need help
         | writing the code, not the math.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | I think there's a certain level of denial involved in this as
         | well. There is a category of person who really wants AI to
         | become a Big Life-Changing Thing. Maybe they are older and
         | remember the early iPhone or the heady days of home computing
         | in the 90s. Or maybe they are young and just eager to be part
         | of the next big thing. Or they're lazy/busy and eager to avoid
         | the hard work of editing/proofreading/revising. Or they think
         | they are smarter than everyone else, and that the caveats only
         | apply to regular people, but not them. In any case, there ends
         | up being a kind of emotional attachment to the AI usage, which
         | gets in the way of them considering evidence that it can be
         | unreliable.
         | 
         | (This phenomenon is not unique to AI, it shows up in all areas
         | of life.)
        
         | COAGULOPATH wrote:
         | My experience is the opposite: laypeople are excessively
         | pessimistic on LLM progress ("AI is so dumb. It tells you to
         | put glue on pizza and eat rocks)", usually due to a remembered
         | anecdote that's either years old or reflects worst-case
         | performance (only egregiously bad AI mistakes make the news).
         | 
         | Frontier models are better than they were and "feel" fairly
         | reliable, although all the AI problems of 2021-2022
         | conceptually do still exist.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I figured that out, the first time I submitted a Swift question
         | to ChatGPT, where I would normally have used StackOverflow.
         | 
         | It hallucinated an Apple API call. Not just that, but that
         | nonexistent call was the entire fulcrum of its "solution."
        
         | muzani wrote:
         | I think there's a segment of society that blindly believes
         | anything data backed. This is pretty frequent in product and
         | marketing too. The article here shows some people who blindly
         | trusted their marketing teams.
         | 
         | And while everyone here are going to laugh at those chumps who
         | use data driven stock price indicators or LLM code generators,
         | they'll throw a fit if you tell them that the data on calories
         | and vaccines aren't always that accurate either.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | > I truly think the general public have not been adequately
         | warned that they cannot trust the outputs of LLMs.
         | 
         | to the contrary, every company now advertises using "AI" (the
         | latest handle for LLMs) to "solve X" with maybe some small
         | print somewhere about the side effects, much like medication
         | advertising
         | 
         | Did you see Google's ad during the Olympics? No mention of
         | hallucinations that I recall (also probably the stupidest use
         | case for LLMs they could have thought up; pretty shocking).
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | One use of AI is to do something that you couldn't do yourself.
         | In many cases that means it can successfully bullshit you.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | I'm hearing of pressure for LLM-generated science-related apps,
         | such as auto-generating workflows from natural language English
         | for "non-coder scientists". It sounds wonderful, but unless the
         | user 1) sees the workflow being generated, and 2) has the
         | necessary skills to discern whether that workflow will generate
         | the desired results, and 3) has the ability to modify the
         | workflow/pipeline manually or continue prompting the LLM until
         | it spits out the correct workflow (see #2), then it's not only
         | useless, but dangerous.
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | Oh you have no idea how badly this is going to go over time.
         | 
         | I watched a presentation by some psychology researchers last
         | year where they were presenting their paper for applications of
         | LLM technology in early-therapy diagnostics. They were
         | literally throwing patients at it. I showed one of the
         | enthusiastic followers, a high ranking PhD in the field, how
         | easy it was to get it to give me suicide advice and she was
         | absolutely horrified and totally unaware of the possibility
         | this could happen.
         | 
         | All these things were missing in the associated paper of
         | course. Gotta keep those grants flowing.
        
       | jccooper wrote:
       | > an error in properly vetting and fact-checking the phrases
       | provided by the consultant
       | 
       | The error was "not doing it".
        
       | nox101 wrote:
       | I wonder how long it will be until they have the AI make up the
       | quotes and then get approval from the reviewers similar to the
       | way Luxottica designs sunglasses and then asks the various brands
       | to pick from them. The brands themselves don't design the
       | sunglasses they just sign off on designs by Luxottica.
        
       | reanimus wrote:
       | What is with people treating LLMs like a search engine? All of
       | this could have been avoided by just using Google.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | > All of this could have been avoided by just using Google.
         | 
         | Unfortunately no, Google's results are now polluted with AI
         | generated content, and Google search itself generates results
         | with AI.
         | 
         | It hasn't been possible to trust the results of any search
         | engine since around 2020.
        
           | reanimus wrote:
           | Pretty sure it's entirely possible to find out what someone
           | has said in a major publication about a major figure,
           | actually.
        
           | COAGULOPATH wrote:
           | What he means is that if you search for "Diminished by its
           | artsiness" + "Pauline Kael" you won't find any results
           | (except for ones related to this news story).
           | 
           | Google is polluted with AI generated content but not _this_
           | specific bit of AI generated content.
        
       | bananapub wrote:
       | > Sources tell Variety it was not Lionsgate or Egan's intention
       | to fabricate quotes
       | 
       | er...yes it was? he typed "WHAT ARE SOME QUOTES FROM FAMOUS FILM
       | REVIEWERS ABOUT FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA'S MOVIES?" then copied the
       | random text it generated and put it in to an email and sent an
       | invoice for a jillion dollars to Lionsgate, who then put them in
       | a trailer.
       | 
       | that's obviously an intention to fabricate quotes, and any social
       | acceptance of it is just ridiculous.
        
       | beloch wrote:
       | GoDaddy has advertised, on TV, generative AI for social media
       | comment creation as a part of their website services.
       | 
       | Faking your reviews with AI is _not_ a good idea. The makers of
       | Megalopolis got caught, and you could too. Their efforts to spin
       | and deny won 't reverse the damage.
       | 
       | Don't use AI for this. Don't even do this the old fashioned way!
        
         | warkdarrior wrote:
         | The solution is not to get caught -- use a good-enough AI, put
         | some human comments in (don't make it all AI-driven), and don't
         | make it too unbelievably good.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | >Faking your reviews with AI is not a good idea. The makers of
         | Megalopolis got caught, and you could too. Their efforts to
         | spin and deny won't reverse the damage.
         | 
         | Let's see if anyone is talking about this in two weeks.
         | Attention spans are so short, all you have to do is ride it out
         | for a little bit.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | Is it really a bad idea? Is getting caught a bad outcome? Will
         | this hurt their revenue at all?
         | 
         | This is somewhat conspiratorial, but I think it's a deliberate
         | enshittification strategy. Do something that's currently
         | considered beyond the pale, accept some temporary reputation
         | damage, walk it back. Then quietly and gradually start working
         | your way up to doing increasingly bad things, and people will
         | be OK with that, because at least it's not the really bad thing
         | you did that one time. Eventually, the thing that was once
         | beyond the pale is now the normal.
        
       | spacecadet wrote:
       | No sympathy here. Ive been using AI for all sorts of tasks, but
       | at the same time, going back and carefully reviewing the output
       | or testing the code and making my own revisions. I think it's
       | useful for giving it a request and doing something else while it
       | creates a baseline. You still need to take that baseline and know
       | what to do with it. Otherwise, blind leading the blind?
        
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