[HN Gopher] Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Ap...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro
       struggles
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2024-08-23 18:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.macrumors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.macrumors.com)
        
       | taylodl wrote:
       | The Vision Pro is a solution looking for a problem. This is the
       | same problem plaguing Apple Home. It just feels very - so what?
       | Tech nerds like it because it's "cool", but everybody else is
       | wondering why would I ever need this thing?
       | 
       | Personally, I think they need to be thinking of a more Apple
       | Watch type device wearable in normal glasses frames. Something
       | more akin to Google Glass, and yes, I'm familiar with the term
       | "glasshole." But maybe it was a product too far ahead of it's
       | time? Or maybe these are just products we don't need?
        
         | ubercore wrote:
         | You mean HomeKit? I'm a big fan, despite the warts. I think
         | that's really useful.
        
         | kevinventullo wrote:
         | I contend that almost every problem solvable by a wearable can
         | be solved "well enough" by a smartphone, to the point where an
         | additional device is not worth the trouble for the marginal
         | benefit (unless you're a person who likes gadgets).
         | 
         | For exercise specifically I do see the value of a watch form
         | factor since people don't want to carry a phone in their
         | exercise gear. But, that's pretty niche.
        
           | fullshark wrote:
           | Yeah we might end up just circling back to VR over AR and
           | prioritizing immersive gaming, the only thing you can't do on
           | a smartphone / desktop.
        
           | danans wrote:
           | > I contend that almost every problem solvable by a wearable
           | can be solved "well enough" by a smartphone, to the point
           | where an additional device is not worth the trouble for the
           | marginal benefit
           | 
           | I've found glanceable notifications on my smartwatch to be
           | really useful.
           | 
           | Dismissing or answering calls without taking out my phone (or
           | without my phone at all since the watch has mobile
           | connectivity), quickly seeing text messages (especially 2
           | factor auth codes).
           | 
           | The remote viewfinder for my camera lets me actually be in
           | family photos. And of course exercise tracking (reminders to
           | get a few thousand more steps today are helpful). AR/VR
           | goggles would be useless for any of those, and make the last
           | two worse.
        
             | jemmyw wrote:
             | But as the parent poster said, most of those things are
             | adequate without the watch. I have a watch but it's a nice
             | to have rather than essential.
        
             | nox101 wrote:
             | I've found notifications period to be a net negative to my
             | life. I have almost all of them off.
             | 
             | > Dismissing or answering calls without taking out my phone
             | (or without my phone at all since the watch has mobile
             | connectivity), quickly seeing text messages (especially 2
             | factor auth codes).
             | 
             | The distraction of even looking breaks me out of the zone.
             | So no, don't need a watch for notifications.
        
         | NameError wrote:
         | I think something with the "wow" factor of the Vision Pro but
         | the form factor of a pair of glasses would be the holy grail of
         | AR/VR. I wonder if there are fundamental tradeoffs which would
         | make that impossible in the near term? I think it would remain
         | very niche indefinitely in that case.
        
           | makestuff wrote:
           | I wonder if in the next 5 years there could be a device where
           | the compute is your smartphone but it streams to a display on
           | your AR/VR glasses. I guess the main issue would be where do
           | you put the battery.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | The display technology is simply not there at the moment.
        
         | pocketarc wrote:
         | > Or maybe these are just products we don't need?
         | 
         | That's exactly it, they're products we don't -need-. If you
         | already have a smartphone, that's good enough. This is the same
         | problem that plagues the AI assistant devices - it doesn't
         | matter what they can do, they won't replace your smartphone.
         | Which means you're asking someone to carry (and pay for) a
         | smartphone + an extra device. That's a big ask.
         | 
         | It's also the reason why you see these stories of people living
         | smartphone-only lives, doing everything on their smartphones
         | without needing or even having a desktop/laptop. Smartphones
         | are good enough for everything, for a lot of people.
         | 
         | For the record: I -love- the Vision Pro. Tried it out, loved
         | it. But I fall into the `Tech nerds like it because it's
         | "cool"` part. I recognize that that's not going to be the
         | popular opinion. Not now, not ever. There's just not enough
         | value in VR/AR to really change societal norms to the point
         | that everyone's going to want to wear these devices.
         | 
         | Ultimately: Just because a product is a cool idea, doesn't mean
         | it's society-altering. Some products just aren't that valuable.
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | > they're products we don't -need-. If you already have a
           | smartphone, that's good enough.
           | 
           | I disagree.
           | 
           | If LinkedIn made AR glasses that told me who the person is
           | I'm looking at (that I'm connected to on LinkedIn) and
           | why/how we were connected, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
        
             | ffgjgf1 wrote:
             | > If LinkedIn made AR glasses that told me who the person
             | is I'm looking
             | 
             | I could only hope that the EU would ban it ASAP if such a
             | product existed making it unviable anywhere else. Except
             | maybe China and such, should be pretty useful for the CCP
             | enforcement agencies.
        
             | brailsafe wrote:
             | > If LinkedIn made AR glasses that told me who the person
             | is I'm looking at (that I'm connected to on LinkedIn) and
             | why/how we were connected, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
             | 
             | The idea of wearing LinkedIn on my face makes my stomach
             | churn, but while that's my personal reaction, is there a
             | real world context you've found yourself in regularly
             | enough that you've found yourself wanting such a product,
             | or is it more like a conference thing? I can't even think
             | of a physical space I've been in, ever, where there would
             | be even one person that I'm both connected to on LinkedIn
             | and don't know why.
        
           | FL33TW00D wrote:
           | But there are so many things that can't be done without
           | visual & audio context. I can't hold my smartphone camera up
           | all day to capture and serialize useful data.
           | 
           | AI just made the value proposition for smartglasses 10x.
        
             | coltonv wrote:
             | The Humane AI pin says hello and that the almonds in your
             | hand have 16000 calories.
        
             | throwway120385 wrote:
             | Why do you need to "capture and serialize useful data?"
             | Wouldn't it be more fun to just be present where you're at?
        
               | FL33TW00D wrote:
               | Wouldn't it be more fun to smash up your iPhone and be
               | present where you're at?
        
           | mckn1ght wrote:
           | Disagree, I've been coordinating a lot of things lately-house
           | projects, social events, travel, healthcare, work, etc etc-
           | and have basically had a phone glued to my hand, which means
           | i'm one hand down and constantly cranking my neck. if i could
           | go hands free and be able to mind tasks, even menial ones
           | like laundry and cooking, while researching things online,
           | going through phone menus, messaging with people etc, it
           | would really help. i think we are getting really close to
           | that capability with chatgpt voice mode, we just need a piece
           | of hardware that can bridge the gap.
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | > If you already have a smartphone, that's good enough.
           | 
           | Sure, but I don't think nearly enough people are sufficiently
           | critical of their need for a smartphone either; I tend to
           | think of it like cars, we've just allowed ourselves to let
           | these devices service so much our day-to-day tasks that they
           | seem like necessary appendages. If it goes away, we panic and
           | buy another one, never stopping to sit with that absence. If
           | my mac had a built-in cellular modem, I'd leave the phone at
           | home most days. It's not useless, but it is completely
           | incidental to my life in terms of what I actually would
           | _need_ it for. Likewise, if people didn 't have cars, they
           | wouldn't likely have a life that's only palatable because
           | they have one.
        
           | PKop wrote:
           | > it doesn't matter what they can do
           | 
           | No it very much matters what they can do, and it's "not
           | much". If they could do a lot more any of these products
           | would be very popular.
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | Google Home was kind of magical when it launched, but as its
         | reliability has degraded over time, its appeal has worn off. It
         | is still nice to be able to ask it to play music or set an
         | alarm or whatever without engaging with a screen.
         | 
         | I haven't used a HomePod, but I suspect it's Apple's version of
         | that experience.
        
           | jauntywundrkind wrote:
           | The Sonos patent wars sucked. Things are somewhat back to ok,
           | but man, it's just absurd & sad seeing basic networked av get
           | ravaged by lawyers like so.
           | 
           | I'm super glum about audio casting at the moment. It feels
           | like less and less speakers have audio casting builtin. For a
           | while there was a spare of speakers, some even battery
           | powered, but it's turned into a trickle. There's also
           | incredibly few options for amplifiers with builtin audio
           | casting; what the NexusQ originally did! So frustrating.
           | 
           | This is an ecosystem I am super bought into, and it feels
           | like it's fading and there's not a replacement (especially
           | with Sonos's recent enshittification seppuku).
        
         | 1propionyl wrote:
         | Apple Home (as an integrated Matter/Thread client) is far more
         | useful than the Vision Pro.
         | 
         | It's easy to fixate on things like colorful lights, but
         | consider instead automations based on how much energy is used
         | when. For example, if I have a box fan or a portable AC unit on
         | a smart plug, I can automate it running while I'm gone only if
         | the temperature gets to a excess (for the benefit of pets,
         | fruit on the counter, running computers, etc) or only when
         | electricity is cheaper and/or cleaner.
         | 
         | The most useful IoT devices, I think, aren't purpose devices
         | that have a microcontroller integrated into them... so much as
         | ones whose primary and only purpose bridge digital and physical
         | by allowing you to actuate something remotely, be it the flow
         | of electrify (smart plug), or physically flipping a switch
         | (switchbot type).
        
         | makestuff wrote:
         | Yeah I frequently look at the vision pro reviews and think it
         | would be cool to try, but I know after about a month I would
         | get bored with it. $3500 is alot of money to spend on what is
         | essentially the perfect device for watching movies on an
         | airplane.
         | 
         | It is an insanely impressive technology; however, like the
         | iPadOS I think it is going to take a decade or so to have
         | enough functionality to even consider being useful for
         | professional tasks. I don't want to have to buy a macbook just
         | to stream it to the vision pro to do any coding tasks.
        
         | jordanb wrote:
         | > Or maybe these are just products we don't need?
         | 
         | Silicon valley needs a product that will make us spend even
         | more time online than our phones, in order to sell more ad
         | inventory and make the line go up.
         | 
         | This is pretty much what's driving all of this, especially the
         | AR stuff. It's not a solution in search of a problem. The
         | problem is they need to sell more ads. The only issue is that
         | it's a solution to _their_ problem, not ours.
        
           | FL33TW00D wrote:
           | Or, on the other hand, AR could BLOCK all ads that you ever
           | see. Sanitise your entire visual input, replace all ads with
           | a grey square!
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | There are very few situations where I'd want to wear a bulky
         | headset for any length of time. Although I don't play video
         | games, I could see that people who are into it might find them
         | pretty cool.
         | 
         | The TV ads showing people at business meetings all wearing
         | headsets and manipulating a shoe protoype in mid-air are just
         | ridiculous. Or the one where a guy is trying to assemble a
         | furniture kit and wearing a headset. Come on, you'll do better
         | with a YouTube video and unobstructed eyes.
        
         | psunavy03 wrote:
         | There was a time when you didn't "need" a PC, either, and they
         | were seen as just nerd toys and things yuppies used to balance
         | their checkbooks, back when "balancing your checkbook" was a
         | thing you had to do. This changed with the advent of the Web,
         | and held until desktops gave way to smartphones. If you could
         | time-travel back to the 80s and 90s, plenty of folks would have
         | scoffed that anyone would ever "need" a computer, let alone a
         | computer in their pocket. But a lot of that is because "a
         | computer" was a bulky beige thing with a CRT monitor, and maybe
         | if you were really into it a 2400 baud modem. But then you'd
         | have to splurge for a second phone line or pick which device to
         | use, the modem or the phone.
         | 
         | So I'd be wary of writing off AR/MR/XR as a dead end, as
         | opposed to a technology that still needs more innovation to
         | reach the mainstream. Glasses themselves are mainstream, and
         | have been for centuries. What's holding AR devices back is the
         | ability to miniaturize the necessary holographic technology, as
         | well as the batteries and processing power. This will
         | eventually be solved, just like an iPhone now has more
         | processing power than the supercomputers of decades before.
         | 
         | The problem with VR will always remain the same. You can't
         | interact with other people while you have a big thing on your
         | face that's designed to supplant your entire field of view,
         | which limits desirable use cases.
        
           | tqi wrote:
           | > If you could time-travel back to the 80s and 90s, plenty of
           | folks would have scoffed that anyone would ever "need" a
           | computer, let alone a computer in their pocket.
           | 
           | Is that true? I feel like people have imagined portable
           | communication / computing devices forever[1]. People maybe
           | couldn't imagine that they could ever be small enough to be
           | practical, but the utility of such a device was pretty
           | obvious. Similarly, I think "VR" as a concept has obvious
           | value and applications. However current implementations fall
           | far short of what is necessary to unlock that value for most
           | people / scenarios.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.geeksandbeats.com/2016/02/star-trek-
           | technology-t...
        
             | jacobgkau wrote:
             | I guess you're both right. People knew there'd be reasons
             | computers would be nice to have, but scoffed at the idea
             | that it would be realistic, or would become an actual
             | necessity. People now know that there are ways VR could be
             | cool, but many aren't yet convinced it can be done well
             | enough/cheap enough to be worth it, nor are they imagining
             | it being day-to-day tech yet.
        
               | asadotzler wrote:
               | It cannot be done well enough or cheap enough or in a
               | form factor people are willing to use at scale. It's a
               | dead end until those all change. Decades at least.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > I feel like people have imagined portable communication /
             | computing devices forever
             | 
             | Another example, comic-book detective Dick Tracy's
             | wristwatch debuted in comic books back in 1946--or 78 years
             | ago now. It even got some proof-of-concept work. [0]
             | 
             | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpdyQCW7I0c
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I'm pretty convinced that AR and specifically headset AR is
         | just a dead end. No amount of sensors or pixels are going to
         | make it viable for anything besides some tiny niches. VR is fun
         | and has some uses. Everything else just needs a tactile
         | keyboard or touchscreen.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | (1) Price matters. If Detroit was selling $25k reasonably sized
         | EVs they'd be selling like hotcakes, even if they had limited
         | range. There are a few people who will pay $75k+ for a luxury
         | EV but they bought a Tesla 10 years ago. If Detroit wanted to
         | sell XXXL EV SUVs at crazy high prices they should have done it
         | ten years ago. Now it's too late and they have to make the kind
         | of cars BYD does or pass legislation to keep BYD out of our
         | market.
         | 
         | The Meta Quest consumer has proven they'd rather save a few
         | bucks and buy an MQ2 instead of a better MQ3. It's a big
         | problem for Meta because they're never going to move towards
         | making better games that need an MQ3 to run.
         | 
         | (2) VR > AR Apple's just plain wrong about the focus on AR. The
         | Apple Vision Pro has the hardware to provide far superior
         | immersive world application story than the MQ3 but the software
         | (and maybe controller) story isn't there. Apple acts as if
         | there was something morally wrong with VR, like it is putting
         | your hands in their toilet with all the conviction they have
         | that it is OK to take 30% of all the revenue of the app
         | economy. Sorry, visiting VR worlds is half the value you could
         | get out of a product and throwing out half the value is like
         | doubling the price.
         | 
         | A cheap set of XReal glasses can say "this is just good for
         | watching the HDMI output of a game console" but at Apple Vision
         | Pro prices product that expensive really has to "do it all"
         | with no excuses. People really do subscribe to VR fitness apps,
         | they really do have fun playing games like _Asgard 's Wrath 2_
         | or games like _Riven_. Have you ever heard anyone say that they
         | were engaged with an app for the Vision Pro?
        
           | salzig wrote:
           | In regards to VR, I think Valve could really move the hole
           | situation by building/providing SteamLink VR on AVP, as they
           | do on Meta Quest. Buy any Bluetooth (VR) Controller and enjoy
           | games streamed.
           | 
           | And maybe in some future I will be able to stream from Linux
           | hosts via SteamLink.
        
         | spacemadness wrote:
         | I feel like Apple missed the ZIRP window to release this to a
         | larger quantity of tech nerds who weren't continually worried
         | about being laid off.
        
         | pzo wrote:
         | If they wouldn't be too greedy they could make a device that
         | combines: Apple TV, HomePod, Apple Router, Time Machine - that
         | would be an ultimate smart home device... but they want to sell
         | both Apple TV, HomePod and iCloud for storage.
        
       | pie420 wrote:
       | aww man i was looking forward to consuming even more content and
       | seeing even more relevant ads in virtual reality!
        
         | OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
         | This is another big problem for VR: The headsets are very
         | locked down. Getting something like an Ad Blocker, sideloading
         | apps, or general functionality hacking is too cumbersome. You
         | burn out and go back to your laptop before long.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Sideloading on the Meta headsets is trivial. Its probably as
           | hard to change the bootloader as it is on Android (I mean, it
           | IS Android) but I'm not sure what you would need that for.
        
       | zooq_ai wrote:
       | Before the bandwagon jumps on "Metaverse is dead", Meta is
       | pursuing multiple headsets, devices strategy and trying to find
       | the right Features / Price mix.
       | 
       | Quest 2 is the most successful headset and it seem to have the
       | perfect balance. Quest 3 although great, probably is slightly
       | expensive for the mass market. But there will be a chatGPT moment
       | for Metaverse in the next 5 years and Meta's strategy will pay
       | dividends.
       | 
       | It's Ray-ban smart glasses is already a huge hit. Like a startup,
       | you just have to keep iterating and I'm glad zuck is on it
        
         | GaggiX wrote:
         | >But there will be a chatGPT moment for Metaverse in the next 5
         | years
         | 
         | Honestly I doubt it.
         | 
         | ChatGPT is a free service that is genuinely helpful. For the
         | Metaverse you need to buy the headset and the hardware to run
         | it for what? Wasting time in a virtual store instead of just
         | using a UI? Using it on a worst version of VRchat?
        
         | cut3 wrote:
         | > It's Ray-ban smart glasses is already a huge hit.
         | 
         | Sure, "huge hit". Anecdote but the only time Ive ever seen
         | anyone wear one was when I interviewed at meta and one of the
         | folks interviewing me was wearing them.
        
           | jowday wrote:
           | Also, completely anecdotal, but the only people I've ever
           | seen wearing them are Facebook employees.
        
             | throwway120385 wrote:
             | I'm getting Google Glass flashbacks.
        
           | FL33TW00D wrote:
           | Here's Nat Friedman saying he's a DAU of them:
           | https://x.com/natfriedman/status/1796986709751759304
        
             | TaylorAlexander wrote:
             | Well now we know at least one person uses them.
        
               | FL33TW00D wrote:
               | He's the CEO of EssilorLuxottica saying that they've sold
               | more units of the latest version in a few months than the
               | previous version did in 2 years.
               | 
               | https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-
               | intelligence/n...
               | 
               | These things ARE selling, the product is just early.
        
               | TaylorAlexander wrote:
               | The CEO of a company selling them says he likes them, and
               | they are selling more quickly than a product which
               | flopped. I am not particularly swayed by this
               | information!
        
               | jayrot wrote:
               | Hope you're sitting down, because the next iPhone is
               | going to be the Best iPhone Ever.
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | > DAU
             | 
             | "Daily active user" apparently.
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | DAU is really a common terminology used in mobile web
               | apps and games(aka modern day tobacco and gambling).
        
         | jowday wrote:
         | If anything, what I've heard from friends at or adjacent to
         | Meta is that they're paring back metaverse ambitions and
         | capabilities on their future devices because of the success of
         | the Ray-Bans glasses and the relatively middling sales of the
         | Quest 3.
         | 
         | The Ray-Bans are also a weird anomaly since they're leaning on
         | the Ray-Bans designer pricing to justify a lot of the cost. If
         | you're already buying a pair of luxury sunglasses that cost
         | close to $200, what's another $100 to get the smart version?
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | I'm constantly losing, scratching, or breaking sunglasses. I
           | buy them at $30 tops, not $300.
        
             | cdchn wrote:
             | Sounds like there is an obvious feature for having FindMy /
             | location beacons in your smart sunglasses.
        
             | RockRobotRock wrote:
             | In my experience I tend to lose my sunglasses less when
             | they're expensive :)
        
               | jacobgkau wrote:
               | And I keep my sunglasses in my car's glove compartment to
               | use when I'm driving, with the only times I wear them
               | being then and when I'm doing physical activity (running,
               | sports, etc).
               | 
               | New, less physically risky use cases for sunglasses will
               | not appear in my life just because I get a more expensive
               | pair of them.
        
           | Eggpants wrote:
           | Don't understand the appeal being a spy cam for Facebook, but
           | to each their own. The subsidized quest is on borrowed time
           | if it keeps losing crazy billions a quarter as it currently
           | does.
        
         | hervature wrote:
         | > But there will be a chatGPT moment for Metaverse in the next
         | 5 years and Meta's strategy will pay dividends.
         | 
         | You mean lose billions within an unclear race that may
         | ultimately lead to commodity prices like TVs?
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Anecdotal but of the few people that showed me their smart ray
         | bans, 0 actually wear them, let alone use the smart
         | functionality.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Computer headsets. Blockchain. AI.
       | 
       | Really hitting the mark recently.
        
         | zaphod420 wrote:
         | I use all three of those things every day... Couldn't imagine
         | my life without them now.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | There are dozens of you, dozens!
        
             | jayrot wrote:
             | I'm racking my brain hard to try to imagine how someone
             | uses the blockchain everyday
        
         | user9925 wrote:
         | Not sure why AI is on that list.
        
           | nozzlegear wrote:
           | Maybe "what most companies use AI for" (i.e. glorified data
           | collection) or "what most companies try to pass off as useful
           | AI" (i.e. what we used to call machine learning, but now that
           | ecommerce app can also tell you your latest sales in the form
           | of a poem).
        
       | wrsh07 wrote:
       | Honestly, this is a shame, because I think a lot of the vision
       | pro's flaws are Apple problems.
       | 
       | That said, meta seems to have found a sweet spot in
       | price/performance, so maybe in a few generations we will have
       | something with the quality of vision pro that is not locked down
        
         | spacemadness wrote:
         | I still can't believe they expected people to be excited about
         | a floating iPad OS UX as the main experience.
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | It's not a sweet spot. It's less then 10 million MAU over 5
         | years for about $40 billion dollars. How is that a sweet spot.
         | If you can't get 10 million MAUs in 5 years for $40 billion
         | dollars, you're a failure. Quest is a failure. AVP being an
         | even bigger failure doesn't make Quest a success.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | I feel like they have struck gold with the Meta Ray-ban glasses.
       | Perfect form factor, looks cool, not obtrusive, has actual
       | features that people want to use. That IMO is the future of
       | wearables + AR/VR + AI, not a bulky headset.
        
         | jowday wrote:
         | Every company knows this, the problem is that you can't fit the
         | compute you need for AR/VR + AI into a form factor like this,
         | at least not right now.
        
           | cdchn wrote:
           | I don't think you'll ever be able to. Maybe not for decades
           | for AR/VR. The AI stuff is cool; you can offload that, but
           | mostly they'll just be a glorified camera mount and
           | headphones for the actual 'glasses.'
        
             | redundantly wrote:
             | Your comment won't age well.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | The same thing happened with previous technologies. Steve Jobs
         | didn't "invent the smartphone" -- he just made a smartphone at
         | the time when the underlying tech (VLSI, displays, WLAN, WWAN)
         | got to the point where it could fit in a pocket and have
         | battery life of a day. Similarly he didn't invent the MP3
         | player. He made one at the point when Toshiba were able to
         | manufacture a very small, low power hard drive that meant you
         | could get more than 10 songs on one.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | They're working from both ends. VR/Passthrough content on a
         | device with a screen and then the ideal form factor on the
         | Raybans. The goal is to merge them. Its still TBD on when and
         | if that's possible.
        
         | jasonjamerson wrote:
         | I would buy this today if it filmed horizontal video.
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | But the Ray-bans aren't AR or VR. They're just glasses with a
         | camera, microphone, and speakers plus connectivity for
         | streaming the camera's feed. How is that AR or VR in any way?
        
       | screye wrote:
       | A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation
       | devices.
       | 
       | I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience
       | stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1]
       | 
       | It was literally like being transported there. I know because I
       | had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich
       | visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it
       | felt like was there. I was immediately in tears. It was profound.
       | 
       | The Vision pro's lack of a killer app because development is
       | unintuitive, userbase is small, the UX is alien and the hardware
       | costs of constructing these experience is still rather high. Give
       | it a few years. The hardware is already there. This isn't a
       | solution in search of a problem. This is PalmOS, a solution that
       | is too early to the market.
       | 
       | I have family with disabilities. Being able to teleport my loved
       | ones to places they could never go themselves is worth the $3000.
       | If I could record my most profound memories with 'VR recorder', I
       | would. My parent missed my graduation because of being continents
       | away. You think they wouldn't want to be teleported to it ?
       | Wedding photographers cost $4000+, so we can relive those
       | memories through shoddy snapshots. Why not be teleported back to
       | the most beautiful day ?
       | 
       | Don't knock it till you try it.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK63OSmF1FM
        
         | nox101 wrote:
         | I had the opposite experience. Have had nearly every device.
         | Rift, Rift S, Quest 2, Quest 3, PSVR, PSVR2, Index. Was not
         | impressed at all the the AVP when I tried it. Worse experience
         | almost entirely. Hand gestures suck. Stare to select sucks.
         | Experiences weren't as good as even Rift for me.
        
           | tchock23 wrote:
           | Seriously? Come on. I was one of the first hundred people to
           | kickstart the Rift and have owned every major consumer
           | headset (except the Index) since. The AVP absolutely destroys
           | the Rift in every way.
           | 
           | The only strong argument for Rift/etc. would be for gaming,
           | but the AVP isn't being sold as a gaming device. The new beta
           | Vision OS2 also signicantly improves hand gestures.
           | 
           | I too was unimpressed with the Apple Store AVP demo, but
           | after owning it for a while I absolutely see where it fits in
           | (especially once a non-Pro version comes along).
        
             | asadotzler wrote:
             | Right, because the AVP is ignoring the only useful
             | application for VR today by eschewing precision controllers
             | to try to get OFFICE WORKERS to strap on this monstrosity
             | of a strap-on facial PC to do PRODUCTIVITY tasks. What a
             | joke.
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | The missing point here is always: do I want to haul all the
         | shit up the mountain to record that or not?
        
           | angelkst wrote:
           | At least we will be able to see what celebrities are doing.
        
             | minkles wrote:
             | They can bugger off. I had my dinner ruined by some
             | Instagram celebrities earlier this year who were flying
             | around with a DSLR filming some food and screaming a lot.
             | The staff were visibly pissed off but too afraid to tell
             | them to go away and stop annoying the customers in case it
             | reflected badly on their restaurant. Everyone was held
             | ransom.
        
               | snicky wrote:
               | The second part of your comment reminded me about that
               | South Park episode where Cartman was "reviewing"
               | restaurants on Yelp ...
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > I have family with disabilities.
         | 
         | This has an interesting history. I'm struggling to find it and
         | hope I have it right. John Gruber or maybe Accidental Tech
         | Podcast did a segment on an podcast ages ago in relation to
         | accessibility settings on the iPhone.
         | 
         | Whoever it was credited a particular Apple engineer who pushed
         | hard with accessibility features arguing that at some point,
         | everyone has some sort of issue (sight, hearing, movement etc).
         | 
         | I've tried, but can't find the episode, which is a shame as
         | this sort of thing is Apple at its best, which does get lost in
         | the swamp of depressing decisions they have made in recent
         | years.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years
         | before.
         | 
         | Were you wearing some field-of-view limiting device at the
         | time?
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | Isn't it simple why AVP isn't moving? They don't treat anime-
       | loli-porn content, chiefly VRChat, as first class citizens, if
       | they support those at all. Tons of people have bought and are
       | buying Quest 2 and 3 as well as its competitors with _sole_
       | intent of using it with VRChat.
       | 
       | Don't you guys all remember that iPhoneOS had YouTube since
       | version 1.0, before it even had App Store? Where would you think
       | iOS would have been if it didn't? No way it could have been like
       | Apple TV+ would have launched years earlier and completely
       | obsoleted YouTube. But to me it looks that that is what Apple is
       | banking on.
        
         | nox101 wrote:
         | $3500 is also a big reason. Why pay that when I can get a
         | Quest2 for $199 new for the anime-loli-porn content?
        
         | RockRobotRock wrote:
         | That's a slightly unfair characterization. VRC kept me sane
         | during quarantine as I suspect it did for a lot of people. It's
         | also a nice oasis for people with a lot of social anxiety.
         | 
         | Sure there's unsavory content on there, no denying that. So
         | does every platform with user generated content. Have you seen
         | Meta Horizon? It's no less than an Orwellian nightmare.
         | 
         | I've seen people form meaningful relationships, and achieve
         | amazing things by fostering a real sense of community.
        
         | pzo wrote:
         | On top of that AVP is very limited for 3rd party developer -
         | much more limited than ARKit on iPhone - cannot access raw
         | camera stream, run own CoreML object detection model, cannot
         | even scan barcode/qrcode, pose detection. They openning up some
         | API in new VisionOS 2.0 but only for enterprise applications.
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | Raise your hand who was there during the first boom and doom of
       | VR/AR headset/glasses in the 90's? A cycle or couple of more and
       | we'll be there, maybe.
        
         | talldatethrow wrote:
         | I feel like I have spectacular eyes. I can read absurdly small
         | texts that shocks other people, great low light, yada yada.
         | 
         | The quest2 made my eyes hurt after just using it for maybe half
         | an hour. Tried it a few times over several weeks and decided
         | that my vision is worth more than some entertainment.
         | 
         | I'm not sure how they're going to get around that aspect.
        
           | andybak wrote:
           | Never had that personally and I regularly code (or at least
           | interact with code) in VR
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | I was there in the 80s when it made the mall arcade circuit and
         | again in the 90s when it made the college student union
         | circuit. I was there in the 00s when 25,000 devices made the
         | Silicon Valley circuit. I was there in the 10s when Oculus
         | stirred things up again. I'm here in the 20s when Apple is
         | trying. I'll be here in the 30s when the next round hits AND
         | FAILS AGAIN.
         | 
         | People care about their faces. They're not going to strap a 1.5
         | pound dork-box to their face and head mussing their hair and
         | makeup to do what they can already do on their phones or
         | laptops. What they cannot do on their phones or laptops (or
         | game consoles or tablets or rings or watches or whatever) they
         | can do on a $500 Quest.
         | 
         | There's no market for a PC-priced device that straps to your
         | face like ski goggles. It's an accessory. Price it at $100 or
         | $200 or even $500, but you can't price it at $1000 or $4000
         | because it's a toy.
        
       | salzig wrote:
       | IMHO: the AVP is a DevKit that is sold to consumers. But more
       | polished then the typical DevKit.
       | 
       | But looking into the past and seeing how many people where eager
       | to buy GoogleGlas/Oculus Devkits, why shouldn't a brand like
       | apple decide to push out a devkit as high price consumer device,
       | instead of trying to keep a devkit for a upcoming product a
       | secret?
       | 
       | I'm still wondering what direction the product can and will take
       | from here on. If you compare it with iphone1 vs iPhones today, it
       | could be quite interesting.
        
       | pzo wrote:
       | I wish Meta also created something similar to xreal glasses or
       | even better: some modular RayBan smart glasses that can be
       | transformed into xreal with addon.
        
       | khazhoux wrote:
       | I have an AVP. It's the best TV and movie-watching experience
       | I've ever had, in some ways even better than Metreon IMAX
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | The killer app is pr0n, but Apple won't allow it while Zuck loves
       | to watch over your shoulder.
        
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