[HN Gopher] Show HN: AI Tool Is Now Supporting React, Angular, C...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: AI Tool Is Now Supporting React, Angular, CSS, Svelte, Vue
        
       Author : m4rcxs
       Score  : 86 points
       Date   : 2024-08-23 13:58 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.webcrumbs.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.webcrumbs.org)
        
       | foreigner wrote:
       | Pricing model?
        
         | heyjmac wrote:
         | Free so far
        
       | compacct27 wrote:
       | Well. I guess the demo doesn't work for react components even
       | when prompted for them? Overall the output seemed best for static
       | demo showcasing, it was all HTML
        
         | heyjmac wrote:
         | Try clicking "Choose Framework" or "Export Code". There you can
         | find all the available formats to export =)
        
           | compacct27 wrote:
           | Gotcha, that wasn't obvious on mobile
        
             | m4rcxs wrote:
             | The reason is that the mobile version doesn't include all
             | the tools available in the desktop version. The mobile
             | version is more of a 'light' or 'shortened' version,
             | offering fewer features for a more streamlined experience.
        
       | pants2 wrote:
       | I asked for an 'interactive particle simulation' and got a big
       | gray rectangle. Then I clicked regenerate and the page crashed.
       | 
       | To me it's not clear how I would debug the component, I can ask
       | for modifications but not like add log statements, inspect
       | variables, and give feedback on errors.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | Welcome to the future!
        
       | gmaster1440 wrote:
       | How about Svelte 5 with runes mode?
       | 
       | One of the biggest challenges I've encountered so far while
       | working on my SvelteKit with Svelte 5 codebase is that all
       | frontier models struggle to understand differences between major
       | versions of languages and frameworks, leading to a lot of
       | annoying hallucinations. They're fantastic at writing code, but
       | the last mile of figuring out how to fix issues for incorrect
       | APIs or syntax becomes very tedious.
        
         | segfaltnh wrote:
         | That's because they don't "understand" any of it. I think the
         | interesting space here is in getting the machinery around the
         | model to correct the output before returning it to users, which
         | is the sort of space I'm assuming this app plays it.
        
         | eurekin wrote:
         | I work around that (with limited success) by prepending the
         | latest docs (migration guides, how-tos) into the conversation.
         | gpt-4o picks that up perfectly
        
         | pennomi wrote:
         | This is an enormous footgun that makes AI absolutely impossible
         | to use in Godot. You get a ton of Godot 3 code output which
         | really doesn't resemble Godot 4 code at all, despite having the
         | same name.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | I'm a bit afraid that LLMs will make it harder for new
           | frameworks and tools, as they have far fewer examples to
           | learn from. And if that will make it so that the established
           | frameworks remain status quo.
        
             | soco wrote:
             | Food for thought: let's say AI (some day) delivers a
             | working application, will it still matter which framework
             | it is written? AI writes it, we complain about a problem,
             | AI fixes it, we programmers are out of jobs (at least web
             | application programmers) and the users get updates and
             | finally working applications. I know we are not there yet,
             | but at that imaginary later point, I think frameworks will
             | be a thing of the past.
        
               | goatlover wrote:
               | Who is instructing the AI to make an application, fix
               | bugs and issue updates? Is the customer doing all this or
               | the manager taking time out of their day? Are either of
               | those really fit to figure out whether the app actually
               | meets what the customer needs?
               | 
               | Seems like the software engineering role is still needed
               | at the higher level, and that would still likely require
               | some sort of framework to help make sense of what the AI
               | is generating, so you can instruct it accordingly.
        
             | __jonas wrote:
             | I think with regards to changes within existing frameworks,
             | that would actually be kind of nice.
             | 
             | I really wish framework developers would stick with an
             | existing decent solution longer instead of trying to
             | release new versions with breaking changes in search of
             | some kind of ideal API.
             | 
             | I actually prefer the syntax of Svelte 5 with runes over
             | the previous one as it looks a little less magical to me,
             | but I still wish they wouldn't release another major
             | version and instead just focus on making Svelte 4 really
             | solid. I felt the same about the React move from class
             | components to hooks. I know these two examples come with
             | backwards compatibility, but still would be nice to have
             | just one way to do something and make it really solid and
             | polished.
        
             | Asraelite wrote:
             | The future of AI-assisted coding is probably agents that
             | can automatically test the code candidates they generate.
             | 
             | That should help mitigate the problem. If it tries to use
             | the old API it just won't compile.
        
         | yawnxyz wrote:
         | As a non-LLM, I got so confused with Svelte 5's runes, that I
         | just avoided it altogether by not touching it haha
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | how hard would it be have a Phoenix .html.heex mode instead of
       | your typical react/angular? .html.heex is really just plain old
       | HTML with tailwind css classes. I could easily copy and paste
       | your generated UIs into my views and play around there! thanks!
        
         | heyjmac wrote:
         | You can export and even download a functioning .html! Does that
         | help?
        
           | sergiotapia wrote:
           | for sure, I guess I didn't see that UI button to export as
           | html
        
       | anonzzzies wrote:
       | Can you tell what is different from Claude Sonnet besides some
       | frontend help? Can you tell a bit more about the stack / tech if
       | it's more than just getting some LLM (gpt/clause) to come up with
       | pages and rendering them?
        
         | m4rcxs wrote:
         | Frontend-AI goes beyond just utilizing a standard LLM like GPT
         | or Claude. While these models are powerful for generating
         | content, our tool is specifically designed to streamline front-
         | end development by providing specialized support for frameworks
         | like React, Angular, Svelte, Vue, and CSS.
        
       | causal wrote:
       | Interesting. I like that better developer tooling is coming out.
       | 
       | That said, this particular tool seems like it's trying to be very
       | hand-holdy, maybe not targeting developers?
       | 
       | For developers Claude Dev seems like a more functional
       | equivalent: https://github.com/saoudrizwan/claude-dev
        
         | nickreese wrote:
         | Definitely look into cursor if you like Claude dev. It isn't
         | apples to apples, but their chat mode is very similar.
        
           | causal wrote:
           | This one? https://www.cursor.com/
           | 
           | Looks like it's not open source
        
             | nickreese wrote:
             | Yeah, not open source.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | Approaching the singularity...since no human understands all
       | those things.
        
       | nickreese wrote:
       | I've been using AI models to do frontend design and candidly this
       | doesn't hold a candle to just working directly with the base
       | models.
       | 
       | With the base models you can ask: Hey, make me 5 designs that fit
       | xyz requirements and it will go to work. If you already know
       | front end design, you can take that up a level and pass it an
       | emmet abbreviation of the rough code you want and say only use
       | tailwind colors of sky, zinc, and blue.
       | 
       | I am decidedly not your audience, but if anyone on HN is thinking
       | about how to speed up frontend dev and they are a frontend dev,
       | I'd suggest just messing with the base models more.
       | 
       | Once you get the hang of it, it can be like working with a
       | designer who's feelings don't get hurt... which I love.
       | 
       | "Meh, I don't like those designs, generate me 5 more and feel
       | free to increase the model's temperature up quite a bit to see if
       | you can come up with something cool."
        
         | runnr_az wrote:
         | I'm not really sure what you mean by "base models?"
        
           | punkspider wrote:
           | They're likely referring to using the large language models
           | (GPT, Claude, etc.) through their primary interfaces, because
           | you get more control by interacting with the LLM directly.
        
           | nickreese wrote:
           | Claude, GPT, Llama3.1 directly. The models are really capable
           | if you prompt correctly.
        
       | lasermike026 wrote:
       | Wow, look at that.
        
       | mgaunard wrote:
       | is there a web framework that managed to significantly iterate on
       | knockout or is it all needless fluff to spout more buzzwords
       | every week?
        
       | skapadia wrote:
       | I'm not having much success with this beyond very basic
       | components. I think I'd have more success iteratively working
       | with ChatGPT or Claude directly, and then pasting the code into
       | jsfiddle, pastebin, or replit to see the results and iterate.
        
         | m4rcxs wrote:
         | I understand your point, iterating with ChatGPT or Claude can
         | be a great approach for many cases. Our focus with Webcrumbs is
         | to speed up front-end component creation, especially for those
         | looking for a quicker, more direct solution. But of course,
         | there's always room for improvement! If you have specific
         | suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
        
           | algo_trader wrote:
           | When exporting the code, all the field values are hard coded
           | in the react/html and no easy way to get data from a
           | rest/api.
           | 
           | Maybe i am missing something. I tried the trading template
           | 
           | Also: BUG report.
           | 
           | I asked for a complex field change. This gave me an orange
           | error message "failed try again". But now there is no
           | abort/cancel button. Only a retry button.
           | 
           | Good luck
        
         | rd wrote:
         | I'm begging you to try out cursor and sonnet as the model.
         | 
         | It is incredible, and it genuinely feels like magic when it
         | comes to codebase context.
        
           | m4rcxs wrote:
           | Thank you, great idea! have you joined at the discord
           | channel?
        
         | ggregoire wrote:
         | In this case is it not faster to just code the component
         | yourself?
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Code LLM tools are more defensible when they work only by
       | training on documentation and public domain code of the languages
       | and frameworks.
       | 
       | But they tend to have also been trained on code under copyright,
       | without license to do so.
       | 
       | Some code LLM tools vendors have had to put in 'safeguards', to
       | try to avoid further embarrassing evidence of outright copying.
       | That doesn't mean that they're not still often passing through
       | obfuscated copying.
       | 
       | In real life, when someone is caught plagiarizing, such as
       | copying a paragraph from a published work, and changing some
       | words to fit, it's a career-ending scandal.
       | 
       | And other times, in a grayer area, of mechanical mashing up of
       | multiple works, with the intent of "take these multiple
       | copyrighted works, and mechanically combine them to my needs, in
       | a way that's hard to explain to a judge, and forget about all the
       | copyrights, so I can claim copyright". (Hey, if merely saying
       | "it's an app" can smokescreen an illegal taxi service, hotel
       | service, or rental price-fixing, just think how effective a
       | shield even matrix multiplication is.)
       | 
       | In software, copying code without license, or being tainted by
       | exposure to code when you're supposed to "cleanroom" it, are both
       | already considered illegal or shady.
       | 
       | A lot of the current enthusiasm around generative AI feels a bit
       | like the popularity of media piracy -- many people know, or have
       | a nagging suspicion, that it's against norms or laws, but it's
       | just so appealing, and everyone around you is doing it.
       | 
       | It also has the dynamic of the many exploiting the relative few
       | creators, in a way that wasn't part of the social contract or
       | laws, and which the creator doesn't want, but the many can simply
       | take.
       | 
       | Especially when the many are armed and cheered on, by tool
       | vendors, many of whom should know exactly what they're doing, but
       | who want to win big from this nonconsensual exploitation of the
       | works of others.
       | 
       | And, as the former head of Google recently advised at Stanford,
       | just take it, get big money, and pay lawyers later.
        
       | algem wrote:
       | I can't stand these "tools". And I find it morally wrong trying
       | to automate every little thing a developer does.
        
         | m4rcxs wrote:
         | The goal of Frontend-AI isn't to fully automate the process,
         | but rather to save you time by generating a strong starting
         | point. As the code becomes more complex, it might require some
         | refactoring, so developers still need to put in effort to
         | refine and enhance it.
        
         | t0mas88 wrote:
         | Consider it an improved version of auto complete in your IDE.
         | It helps type pieces of code faster, it doesn't do any of the
         | thinking involved in building a software product.
        
           | algem wrote:
           | It isn't an improved version of autocomplete though, it
           | allows you to submit a design / image and output code.
           | Narrowing the gap between designer and developer.
        
             | Kiro wrote:
             | What is your argument exactly? What's morally wrong with
             | automation?
             | 
             | Don't get me wrong. There are many good arguments against
             | AI but claiming we don't need more automation is one I
             | don't understand, so please enlighten me.
        
               | algem wrote:
               | For me it boils down to the reduction of jobs, pay and
               | displacement of workers. Industry is already over
               | saturated and the evolution of automation has sped up
               | greatly. This type of automation goes hand in hand with
               | displacement. I don't foresee some great enlightenment at
               | the end of the tunnel here, I see the end of development
               | as it looks today. And I don't think it will have any
               | resemblance of the past.
        
               | hooverd wrote:
               | Everything will be worse, slower, more poorly designed
               | and even well less understood?
        
       | rcconf wrote:
       | Should we as developers put more effort into defending our craft?
       | The movements in the artistic space with AI were very widespread
       | and vocal, but we developers seem not to care. I feel like
       | developers in general are a bit more quiet and timid with things
       | and it leads to companies or entire industries taking advantage
       | of us.
       | 
       | Am I the only one who feels like developers really need to be a
       | bit more vocal in defending themselves, their craft, and even
       | their sanity? Are we quiet because of the large salaries in the
       | space?
       | 
       | I suppose the biggest question is how do you defend the craft but
       | at the same time keep the advantage of automation and AI? (is it
       | unions?)
        
         | willsmith72 wrote:
         | Depends on your motive. I enjoy the "art" of programming, but I
         | enjoy even more using it to build cool stuff, make companies
         | happy, start side projects or even businesses.
         | 
         | I've not seen any indication an AI legitimately replacing
         | software engineering, rather enhancing it perhaps resulting in
         | the need for fewer engineers for the same work. Even as an
         | engineer that's a huge win.
         | 
         | The role is less coding, more engineering. I suppose if the
         | "craft" is the coding part, you're right it may need defending,
         | but to me that's not the craft
        
           | rkuodys wrote:
           | Totally in the same camp. How I see AI improvement- is that
           | if you needed couple developers to launch something, now you
           | can do it yourself. Meaning the cost of launch is lower and
           | that I think should be appreciated not fighted against.
           | 
           | If developer is actually solving the problems, it's like
           | giving a tractor to dig a hole in addition to shovel
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | If AI is building better software why stop it? If it's not,
         | what's the threat? What's to defend? Our right to build worse
         | software? Prevent people from using tools as they see fit?
         | What's course of action would you take?
        
           | haliskerbas wrote:
           | Losing my sweet, sweet TC is the threat.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | No, as except for an elite artistic few, the defenders of
         | unproductive ways or even those who refuse to aggressively
         | upskill, end up poor with few prospects.
         | 
         | This is especially true in an industry where anyone can jump in
         | (unless we want to lock computers behind licences).
         | 
         | I want the high salary to continue, so I will move where the
         | tools take me. AI let's me generate a ton more features in the
         | same amount of time.
        
         | cheema33 wrote:
         | > Should we as developers put more effort into defending our
         | craft?
         | 
         | Fight against AI tools? You are not likely to win that battle.
         | 
         | Horse carriage manufacturers would not have stopped car makers,
         | regardless of how hard they tried or unionized. You have to
         | adapt.
        
         | petabyt wrote:
         | Code doesn't really have the same 'human touch' the way art
         | does. We've spent the past 20 years making libraries, higher
         | level languages, UI frameworks, etc to make development faster.
         | If there's any 'human touch' it's a lot higher level than just
         | the lines of code. Art has mostly been the same for a very long
         | time. Especially painting/drawing. For most people it's a
         | passion and creative outlet. From what I've seen (some) AI
         | investors say so far, they want to replace that creativity.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | Art and technology used to be... the same. Almost nobody
           | really wants the artistry that comes with well crafted code
           | these days though. It's mostly just about being done.
        
             | throw-the-towel wrote:
             | And that applies to more that just code. Buildings, tools,
             | cutlery, furniture, whatever -- everything used to have way
             | more craftsmanship.
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | I suspect that developers and luddites are almost entirely
         | separate groups of people.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | >Should we as developers put more effort into defending our
         | craft?
         | 
         | No.
         | 
         | Nobody worried about optimizing compliers taking the jobs of
         | assembly programmers.
         | 
         | Tools make us able to do _more_ not less. This is just one
         | more. And it happens to be pretty good at doing obvious boring
         | things that have been done a million times which most of us
         | don't want to do anyway.
         | 
         | Like recently I needed to design a nice html error page, I
         | don't have a designer to go to, and it wasn't really a big
         | enough deal for that kind of thing anyway. Instead of having to
         | dust off a bunch of web design skills and spend a long time
         | figuring out fiddly little style sheet things... or just doing
         | a terrible job... I asked AI to do it. 90% of the work was done
         | in 10 seconds, then I spent 5 minutes polishing it. If I did it
         | myself it would either have been a couple of hours to get
         | something as nice or for the same 5 minutes I could have done a
         | shit job. Nobody lost work because of AI that day, I was just
         | able to do more important things than make an internal
         | developer-facing error page look nice.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | I think developers just don't feel threatened by it, not yet at
         | least. For software it's more of a "rising tide that lifts all
         | boats".
         | 
         | I've yet to personally benefit from AI in any of my workflows,
         | in any meaningful capacity, but I wouldn't complain if that
         | changed.
        
         | llama_drama wrote:
         | The best defense is to keep improving as programmers. By
         | constantly refining our skills and learning new technologies we
         | maintain our relevanse and value. AI and automation are tools
         | that can enhance our work, not replace it.
        
           | hatenberg wrote:
           | Pretty sure every single profession affected by
           | industrialisation said the same...
           | 
           | This is just machines for the knowledge economy.
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | The difference between AI art and AI code is that the latter
         | can never be used for anything more than prototypes for someone
         | who doesn't know how to code. For people who know how to code
         | it becomes a super power.
        
         | kabes wrote:
         | No, because
         | 
         | 1. It's a fight you can't win
         | 
         | 2. It might allow me to finally build the ideas I have. I have
         | better things to do than striking a keyboard all day.
         | 
         | I can't wait for AI to replace me.
        
         | corytheboyd wrote:
         | I don't feel threatened by it, and I haven't seen anything that
         | warrants this reaction. Putting code into files is trivial
         | entry-level stuff. Let me know when an automation flawlessly
         | (as in 100% accuracy), consistently (not just once), and with
         | truly arbitrary requests (not cherry-picked) pulls off systemic
         | refactors and feature additions to one or more massive
         | codebases full of poorly written, non-standard garbage. For the
         | record, I find today's AI tools useful, but they do not at all
         | threaten my livelihood.
        
         | ActionHank wrote:
         | Just leave it to run itself out.
         | 
         | Right now the sales pitch is "magical machine spits out any
         | code you can imagine and it will all just work". This isn't the
         | case now and I doubt it will be the case in the future.
         | 
         | It will get really good and make things faster and more easily,
         | but you will still need to know how to use it to be effective
         | and you will still need to understand the underlying tech to be
         | the most effective.
         | 
         | It's like carpentry and powertools. Carpenters and slap
         | together a whole house in a day, a big part being due to power
         | tools. There are still carpenters who are all about the craft
         | and traditional ways and they make amazing pieces of furniture
         | and there are those who need to build houses, fast. Finally
         | there are those who dip into carpentry and realise that it is a
         | whole lot of new knowledge and a degree of understanding that
         | was invisible to them before trying.
         | 
         | If you don't know what you're doing a power tool won't make you
         | a great carpenter.
        
         | richardw wrote:
         | Quite a few responses to your questions based on current state
         | of AI.
         | 
         | Firstly, this is never going backwards. It will only get more
         | capable. There will likely be algo changes that unlock new
         | capabilities over time. There are definitely areas that humans
         | have the advantage but this is similar to the "god of the gaps"
         | concept in that the area where people have an advantage will
         | reduce over time.
         | 
         | There's currently no real understanding in the model and it's
         | really amazing what we can do with hyper-autocomplete. Humans
         | made that happen. We're the ones doing the innovation.
         | 
         | We've long been in the business of automating jobs away. This
         | time it's our own.
         | 
         | For the foreseeable future, get good at leveraging it and stay
         | current.
         | 
         | (Intuition: AI is also good at the business layers. It can
         | probably produce better specs than many (not all) people paid
         | to do it. It can generate ideas and communicate them in many
         | formats. It's super confident, so could easily be a consultant.
         | I don't think the business analysts and strategy people should
         | be too confident.)
        
       | doctorpangloss wrote:
       | This works better than I expected. Orient your front page to give
       | a less vague and more detailed example, because specific results
       | are excellent. I am discouraged by the overuse of rounded
       | corners, but encouraged by the correctly equalized white space
       | and "in sample" choice of font sizes, paddings, etc. It does
       | things well that programmers do poorly.
       | 
       | IMO the document layout folks and people building on top of that
       | like at least 1 YC startup have a more promising path forward for
       | whole-cloth complex component representations versus LLMs with
       | robust prompts but no fine tuning.
        
       | amsheehan wrote:
       | All of the properties controls are bound to a network request.
       | This is a big bummer. I don't like having to wait 400ms every
       | time I change a color.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-23 23:01 UTC)